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I know you guys probably heard this a thousand times (and a forum search shows this) and what I'm about to say is probably very cliche, but the iPhone is a pretty amazing device.
Typically, I am a WM man (I currently own an HTC Touch Pro), and I've owned WM phones/devices for a long time now. I tried other OSes (Symbian, Palm OS), but ultimately, I prefer WM. When the iPhone first appeared, I disregarded it almost entirely because it's made by Apple. As someone familiar with Apple, I just didn't like them very much (largely due to their design philosophy).
Things didn't look like they were about to change. In fact, the next phones I was seriously looking at was the Toshiba TG01, Samsung Omnia HD i9810, and Samsung Omnia Pro B7610. Two of these are Windows Mobile and one is Symbian (which I was less likely to get anyway). The only major difference is that they aren't HTC (I want to move away from HTC because I exceedingly dislike Qualcomm).
However, something special happened yesterday: My friend invited me to lunch and he showed me his new iPhone 3GS. He allowed me to play with it.
In one word: Incredible!
As my intuition knew, I ended up not liking the design of the OS (I still prefer WM's design), but I couldn't really deny how well made the iPhone really is. More than anything else, I really have to compliment how extremely optimized it really is. Opening any software, going to the home screen, playing movies/music, and doing just about anything really was incredibly smooth. The entire time I was with my friend, I just gushed and gushed about this one aspect. The reason why is because it really is incredible how fast everything was.
The truth is that when compared side to side with my Touch Pro, the speed is really the same. However, a few things to note. First, everyone know how the iPhone seems to use "gradual transitions"? To elaborate, whenever you do anything, such as opening software or rotation, it is done in real time, and you can see the changes with your eyes. This is as opposed to WM where it is done immediately (for example, rotating with my TP results in an immediate change as opposed to you seeing the screen rotate on the iPhone).
This seems like a minor thing, but it has a large effect on perception. Notably, it makes you perceive it as being faster. When I counted down the seconds on the iPhone and WM, I noticed that opening programs and rotation are really done at the same speed, but the iPhone's gradual transition effects makes you perceive it as being faster, which is actually pretty nice.
Second thing and a very important point: My TP uses a custom ROM, which is why its speed was on par with that of the iPhone. If it had been using the stock ROM, I am positive that the iPhone would have crushed it in speed.
This seems like a moot point because I *can* use custom ROMs, but note that this forum and all of its custom ROMs are largely exclusive to HTC phones (with the sole exception of the Xperia...which was made by HTC anyway). What happens if I decide to use another WM phone (for example, the Samsung B7610)? Then I would have no choice but to remain with the stock ROM or at least hope someone would develop the stray ROM for the Samsung devices (such as the i900 on XDA).
At this point, I'm also willing to blame the speed issue on hardware. After all, the iPhone is about 72MHZ faster than my phone, and it also also has a dedicated graphics chip. On the other hand, I also have to take into consideration that it takes a custom, optimized ROM for my device to keep up with the stock ROM on a series of device which is notorious for being outdated (anyone remember the iPhone 2G)?
If anyone is wondering, am I thinking about switching to the dark side? Unfortunately, no. While the huge number of apps and the great speed is tantalizing, I am still the guy who frequently spends 4+ hours changing the ROMs on his phones (and tweaking it afterwards). I'm also the guy who frequently goes into the settings menu because he nitpicks about how each little thing on his phone works.
Can I switch to something that won't allow me that much customization? Speaking as someone who's about to change the ROM on his phone again, the answer appears to be a pretty clear 'no' as this point.
On, the other hand, while playing with the iPhone, I did find myself wishing that the Windows Mobile experience was as smooth, and great as with the iPhone, especially on stock ROMs. I also did find myself wondering what Windows Mobile 7 will be like (I can't wonder with WM6.5 because I'm using it now). But of course, what do people saying about wishing too much? It's useless.
Am I going mad?
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Apparently that's wrong.
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Screen went a nice mix of colours and it totally stopped working. Quite a few plug ins to the computer and it came back to life.
There just to fragile and to big(iphone is thicker than the touch also), good girls phone or if you carry a handbag.
Glade I got the Jade not a problem so far.
thedigitel said:
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
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Click to collapse
Is that the AT&T contract you have to sign up for to get an iPhone? If that's the case, why not just buy the iPhone unlocked? It's expensive, but it cost about as much as any HTC phone I've seen.
charge1313 said:
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of right now, the iPhone has roughly 50K-60K of apps while the last article detailing how many apps Windows Mobile seems to have stopped at 20K. Futhermore, the iPhone famously beaten Windows Mobile in reaching 25K apps, and I find it highly unlikely that Windows Mobile caught up.
Even from an outside perspective, though, it seems to me that the iPhone has an impressive number of apps, including a plethora of ones that Windows Mobile never seems to get (or is even capable of getting).
stu-k said:
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
I entirely agree.
My wife has a Gen 1 iphone, and I recently updated it to version 3 and unlocked and jailbreaked.
In the old days, WM had thousands of apps as one of its killer features.
I recently spent a few evenings installing apps on the wife's phone, and I was blown away. Not necessarily by the quality, but by the experience.
Everything is smooth, everything works, the user experience is "unchallenging".
I love tweaking, I love coding, I love spending MONTHS dissecting the WinMob OS to implement a tiny hack. But you know what? Why bother?!
I can't see myself giving up on WinMob - it's got momentum, and I can't be bothered to learn Objective C. I'm barely coping with C++ as it is.
But, to paraphrase Gauntlet, "WinMob [may be] about to die".
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
But - the user experience is OLD.
And I think one of the most fundamental flaws is also one of the biggest strengths - WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware. But the problem:
WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware.
Some of those have graphic accelerators, some don't.
Some have dpads, some don't.
Some have 600mhz CPUs, some don't.
The iphone is a single homogeneous ecosystem.
Coders know they can anti-alias without trying to code to the lowest common denominator 200mhz phone with 16mb of ram. They know exactly what they're gonna get with an iphone. And that fact means they know the limitations, and how to pitch what they've got at the right performance considerations. They know what they're working on. The Human Interface spec is incredible, and incredibly helpful. Users expect an experience, naturally, because it feels natural. Apple encourages that, and coders have to honour it.
I think most of the iphone experience can and should be emulated on WinMob.
I'm not just talking about cloning Springboard and everything else. Yes, we can emulate this and that - our coders on XDA devs are incredible, and could do every bit of it.
But we need more: the experience of just being able to use the phone and expect it to work needs to be emulated.
I don't think the iphone is necessarily a better piece of hardware: I prefer my Touch HD. But clearly the user experience, the user interface paradigm, the reward of just being able to use the thing easily needs to be implemented - from the ground up.
I don't think this is going to happen on WinMob; I think the strength/limitations of a wide open platform means this probably can't happen. I think that like Win CE before it, WinMob will end up being relegated to a certain environment that has low expectations (eg Enterprise markets).
But if "Windows" devices are going to survive, I think the change has to happen at a much higher level. I can only hope that Pink or whatever is on the horizon for WinMob 7 is an integrated piece of hardware and user experience designed from the ground up to feel like it's the 21st century... using WinMob out of pity is going to get old, very very soon.
V
8525Smart said:
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
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Click to collapse
Have to agree, I hate carry around two devices. Hence no longer use Ipod touch on the go, just leave it at home in docking station, which its good for.
Use the Jade for music and a phone which fits on my pocket.
I find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
vijay555 said:
I entirely agree.
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my God, yes, YES!
I can't count the number of times I had to defend WinMo against people who obviously never used it. The number of ridiculously comments I seen was ludicrous and often times seem as if the people saying it were just parroting common criticisms as opposed to their actual experience.
One guy I saw even suggested that receiving text/emails and switching between apps was impossible.
On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post too (as is the subject of my topic). I think you really hit the nail on the head: Windows Mobile's biggest strength, its availability on multiple phones, is also its biggest weakness.
As an owner of a Fuze, an HTC phone with an accelerometer, the lack of accelero-meter WinMo apps makes it very apparent.
I do agree with you that Microsoft needs to do something, at the very least, about the user experience, but I really don't see how it can be done. The iPhone is able to achieve this because it is a software available on one hardware designed by Apple themselves. In order for Microsoft to achieve the same quality of apps or user experience, they would have to design Windows Mobile to take advantage of a particular hardware specification.
As of currently, the best Microsoft can probably achieve is to design Windows Mobile with the best optimization they can while maintaining good compatibility and appearance with a wide number of hardware.
stu-k said:
HI find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be true, but to be fair, the Windows Mobile landscape isn't exactly clear of 'gimmicky' apps either. Some of them even inspired by iPhone equivalents.
HDWobble, anyone?
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
jim_0068 said:
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
poetryrocksalot said:
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
crazy talk said:
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh that's a shame... this app is useless then. I heard that Apple is considering the idea of having full support for background applications.
The problem is that:
1) Apple knows that not many people care about "background" applications.
2) Consumer common sense is distorted in that they don't understand the purpose of multi-task. They believe that multi-task is already on the iPhone because obviously, you can "exit the application into another application". This isn't the point, a true multitasking system requires A) background applications B) automation of background functions and C) the ability to switch tasks in the foreground of an application.
3) Apple knows that adding background applications will result in people complaining of slowness because 1) Alot of people still don't know what RAM is, not even my sister who is a 4+ year college student working on her masters and 2) Alot of people do not know how to manage a platform involving background applications and 3) average consumers would rather sacrifice functionality for ease-of-use.
I believe the emphasis of this multi-tasking is not a multi-tasking complaint. Idiots are prone to think that the iPhone already has multi-tasking; I've seem them argue about it. We need to add a mentality to people in which they learn that it isn't about multi-tasking, it's about background applications and how we need applications to function in the background.
Well the 3GS has double the ram and faster processor, hopefully they (third-parties) can find a way to make actual multi-tasking more plausible.
new beast in town
the android os is really taking shape and will soon be king. with so many different devices coming aboard this thing will be huge. the g1 now is awesome with just a little tweaking and those who don't want to tweak there are 2 more ota coming in the next 5 months.
nonzenze said:
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
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Click to collapse
Hmm, very informative read, Thank you,
So the 3GS apparently has a superior CPU in more ways than one, which I'm not really surprised about. I did mentioned that I did not like HTC's choice of CPUs...which they're still using in their newest devices. Many other devices are already using the Cortex A8, so if it is the case that HTC is losing out due to the CPU, then that doesn't bode well for their future phones.
jim_0068 said:
To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, everything you said is true. A jailbroken iPhone is a very nice thing and probably does well for tinkerers. In fact, the 3GS that my friend let me used was jailbroken too.
However, truthfully, installing apps that lets me do new things wasn't what I was really referring to before. Instead, I was largely referring to the changing of ROMs/OS. I believe the iPhone has made some progress running Linux, but nothing else as far as I can see. WM Phone has so many different ROMs available and progress has been made on running Linux (including Android) too. This allows for much more customization, in my opinion as you get the benefit of software-based customization combined with ROM/OS-based.
Besides, it's pretty fun to be running Windows Mobile 6.5 while everyone else is still using Windows Mobile 6.1.
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
My opinion is that in order to be a solid competitor, Microsoft needs to limit the hardware choices for their platform. HTC does a great job at making devices for Windows Mobile. Microsoft needs to pair up with them to make their own phone. With the new Zune HD coming out featuring the nVidia Tegra chipset, it would make a wonderful platform to build the next generation WM phone from. The thing is, it should be the only phone featuring WM 7 Professsional. It will enable Microsoft to fine tune WM to use every bit of the phone's capabilities, leaving nothing to be desired. Much like they do with their PC OS's, there can be several versions of the main OS with steps in capabilities. Their Zune HD phone should be the candidate for WM7 Ultimate, which would feature smooth transitions and speed.
Edit: Just saw the post above mine. I need to read more!
vijay555 said:
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
8525Smart said:
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think the only company that can actually create a truly direct competitor to Apple and iPhone is Microsoft...it's the name and not the product.....
Apple had a bad rep back then and now they are doing good.
It seems like Microsoft is tagged after Apple jumped the boat to success.
We'll just have to wait for Microsoft to adopt Apple's precedent.
With Microsoft directly creating their own phone and not just an OS, we might actually get a true iPhone killer. Though Microsoft may have to revamp the entire OS and create their own line of OS totally unrelated to Windows Mobile.
I have heard so many bad things about WM7, that I just have to ask someone to confirm this!
The things I have heard are:
1. No copy/paste (Even Iphone has that now!)
2. The apps we have now for WM 6.X cant be used in WM7
3. Most apps for WM7 will be web based (What if you cant afford an unlimited data plan or you are somewhere where you cant get coverage?)
It sounds to me like they have taken all the bad things from the iPhone and implemented into wm7!
Why would anyone want to cripple an OS like that?
Please tell me if I have misunderstood all of this, or if it´s true?
1) i believe it's in the os but from what ive heard it's disabled in the shipping version.
2) the code itself would work, the interfaces however will not. so yes, they won't work.
3) i havent heard that.
you should be more *****ing that the iphone now has multitasking and wp7s doesnt. this is why im still using wm2003/wm5.
cheapusenet said:
1) i believe it's in the os but from what ive heard it's disabled in the shipping version.
2) the code itself would work, the interfaces however will not. so yes, they won't work.
3) i havent heard that.
you should be more *****ing that the iphone now has multitasking and wp7s doesnt. this is why im still using wm2003/wm5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, you are telling me that WM7 will not have multitasking either? (I have not heard that, otherwise it would be on the top of my list!)
If all of this is true then it will be more restricted then iPhone! (YAAAY, way to go microsoft!)
Guess I will be switching over to Android very soon, unless microsoft change their mind before WM7 official release!
also it will only work with .net apps faster native apps will not be available
and only place you can get apps will be ms marketplace
Ok then, can someone please explain to me why some people think that WM7 is so great?
To me it feals like we are taking a few steps back instead of forward!
I mean, for a guy like me, that loves technology and wants to be able to do everything with the device, I just feel a little bit frustrated not being able to do so anymore! What is the point in locking everything down like this?
Are the devices we buy even ours anymore, or does microsoft own them?
I am sorry, but I am so angry right now, that I cant think of anything good to say!
"can someone please explain to me why some people think that WM7 is so great?"
who are saying that?
personally every phone I had apart from 1 have been wm phones but my next phone will most likely be an android
Rudegar said:
"can someone please explain to me why some people think that WM7 is so great?"
who are saying that?
personally every phone I had apart from 1 have been wm phones but my next phone will most likely be an android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of my friends thinks that it is going to be the best OS yet!
But I guess that they dont have all the facts, and that they are basing their opinions on what they have seen on the Windows 7 (PC) OS! (Which is in fact very good!)
But just as you said, Android is going to be my next phone too! I just have trouble dealing with the fact, that all my purchased apps & games wont work anymore, and that I have to start buying them all over again! (If I can find equalent stuff!)
maybe when android phone inc in processor speed later on wm6.X emulators will be a reality but not likely soon enough to help you if those apps are stuff you need often / soon
branko.savic said:
Some of my friends thinks that it is going to be the best OS yet!
But I guess that they dont have all the facts, and that they are basing their opinions on what they have seen on the Windows 7 (PC) OS! (Which is in fact very good!)
But just as you said, Android is going to be my next phone too! I just have trouble dealing with the fact, that all my purchased apps & games wont work anymore, and that I have to start buying them all over again! (If I can find equalent stuff!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lot of apps on android are free so at least you wont have to pay much (the most expensive app i've seen was $9.99)
I'll be upgrading to a HD2 in May, so until it dies any future upgrades (unless M$ come to their senses) will be ebayed, might as well make some money if O2 are willing to give me free useless tat.
I couldn't wait for WM7 falling more behind, so I took the plunge to Android in January. Best move too open source & I have not looked back!
Android has pretty much taken over the XDA-Portal
Everyday there are more and more posts about users who switched over from winmo to android.
I am planing on buying WP7 device, but my fear is I'll be one of few to do so, and as a result of this there will be little development going on for the device. I am a pretty die-hard windows fan so I hope they regain some popularity with WP7.
What does everyone think?
One thing will decide, microsoft wp7 ads.
sent from my x10i that is banging for a 2.1 upgrade. ...
WM continues
I wouldn´t worry for that, despite Android is now "in fashion" as soon as WP7 arrives will happen the same
I am also looking forward WP7 I´m sure it will be a funny one too
davidstre said:
Android has pretty much taken over the XDA-Portal
Everyday there are more and more posts about users who switched over from winmo to android.
I am planing on buying WP7 device, but my fear is I'll be one of few to do so, and as a result of this there will be little development going on for the device. I am a pretty die-hard windows fan so I hope they regain some popularity with WP7.
What does everyone think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont worry if your WP7 device is lacking in WP development, Im sure there will be several ways and ROMs to run Android on it
haha, i dont want to run android on it!!!!!!!
dont get me wrong, its a great os, but i am a much bigger fan of windows
Can someone explain to me the "greatness" of WinMo? From what I've seen of it, it's terrible :<.
Then again, I've only seen 1 WinMo Phone and it was a weird one.
SkelmecH said:
Can someone explain to me the "greatness" of WinMo? From what I've seen of it, it's terrible :<.
Then again, I've only seen 1 WinMo Phone and it was a weird one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM is great because of the amount of free software available for it and the openness of the OS. Yes many times the carriers do a lousy job of programming their version of the phone software but thats where the custom roms come in. Remeber iOS and Android are babies in the world of phone software. So most of the worst specs for an android phone are really good for WM. That being said take about any WM phone and hack it with a good stable custom rom and you will be amazed. I've seen many of hte new android phones and I can say I 'm not that impressed. I think its a great phone for people who aren't phone smart. Thats not saying you can't root it and do really cool things with it. But out of the box its pretty locked down. Unfortunately WP7 is going the way of android and iOS because of their success putting smart phones in normal non techies hands. But for the true techie WM is where its at. Hoped that helped. I fear owning my HD2 for years because all the new phones will be locked down like iphone.
hopefully this eases your concerns about lockdown
one of my great friends recevied their developers wp7 device just the other day and theyve already hacked deep into it, done a plethora of customizations and so on. with wp7 i think we will see more apps and such since they say it has lots of appeal to developers. weve got xda, so we hopefully will never have to face a locked down windows phone haha
i agree, if you are very phone smart, and want to get your phone the exact way you like it windows is where its at. they get a bad rep in the smartphone world only because there is a pretty big learning curve before you can truly dig into the device.
davidstre said:
dont get me wrong, its a great os, but i am a much bigger fan of windows
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Click to collapse
Same here
Despite I´m testing droid on my Leo
davidstre said:
hopefully this eases your concerns about lockdown
one of my great friends recevied their developers wp7 device just the other day and theyve already hacked deep into it, done a plethora of customizations and so on. with wp7 i think we will see more apps and such since they say it has lots of appeal to developers. weve got xda, so we hopefully will never have to face a locked down windows phone haha
i agree, if you are very phone smart, and want to get your phone the exact way you like it windows is where its at. they get a bad rep in the smartphone world only because there is a pretty big learning curve before you can truly dig into the device.
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I've been seeing alot about this on other sites. Devs seem to want the os cause it's market is not filled to the brims so thier apps get lost. First ones out the gate wins kinda thing. I'm eager to see what happens, though I plan on replacing my two raph's with a captivate. I'm really not digging the multitasking in wp7.
The rumored specs for the HD3 has me very interested in WP7. 4.5" 1280x800 screen, 1.5ghz dual core, 1gb ram, 32gb mem. Depends on the Apps too. I really like the Android market more so than what WinMo has offered. I'm a diehard WinMo user, but after running Android on my HD2.... I've found myself using WinMo less and less and less.
edit: Does WP7 even allow 1280x800 screen res? hmm.
If you use Outlook (I do for both business and personal), the sync between PC and device using ActiveSync/WMDC is (although far from perfect) essential. Doing sync between Android devices and Outlook appears to require either 3rd party apps of variable reliability/ease and/or use of Google mail and calendar. If you're paranoid about your data (like me) and don 't want to use someone else to store it, that make WinMo about the only option. So I think the corporates will keep WinMo alive and XDA-dev will keep it interesting!
gio300zx said:
If you use Outlook (I do for both business and personal), the sync between PC and device using ActiveSync/WMDC is (although far from perfect) essential. Doing sync between Android devices and Outlook appears to require either 3rd party apps of variable reliability/ease and/or use of Google mail and calendar. If you're paranoid about your data (like me) and don 't want to use someone else to store it, that make WinMo about the only option. So I think the corporates will keep WinMo alive and XDA-dev will keep it interesting!
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Amen and Halleluiah!
maxpower097 said:
WM is great because of the amount of free software available for it and the openness of the OS. Yes many times the carriers do a lousy job of programming their version of the phone software but thats where the custom roms come in. Remeber iOS and Android are babies in the world of phone software. So most of the worst specs for an android phone are really good for WM. That being said take about any WM phone and hack it with a good stable custom rom and you will be amazed. I've seen many of hte new android phones and I can say I 'm not that impressed. I think its a great phone for people who aren't phone smart. Thats not saying you can't root it and do really cool things with it. But out of the box its pretty locked down. Unfortunately WP7 is going the way of android and iOS because of their success putting smart phones in normal non techies hands. But for the true techie WM is where its at. Hoped that helped. I fear owning my HD2 for years because all the new phones will be locked down like iphone.
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I dunno, Android, even un-rooted seems pretty Open, i never had a problem with it being "Locked Down"
Could be interesting stuff between the release of Android 3.0 and WM7...
boborone said:
I've been seeing alot about this on other sites. Devs seem to want the os cause it's market is not filled to the brims so thier apps get lost. First ones out the gate wins kinda thing. I'm eager to see what happens, though I plan on replacing my two raph's with a captivate. I'm really not digging the multitasking in wp7.
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its important for everyone to know these 3 thing:
-WP7 will be sending ota updates to the phone directely from microsoft. these updates will improve performance in some cases, and add features in other cases. microsofts goal is to bypass the carrier and avoid all of the bs that comes with carriers.
- keeping this in mind, microsoft has two major updates scheduled ALREADY for release within the the first few months of the phones release. one update is the addition of copy and paste, the other is suppose to have something to do with multi tasking
-they intentionally left copy and paste out of launch so they could distribute it in an ota update.
the multitasking issue isnt a bad thing actually. you can run as many native apps as you want at the same time, you just cant run multiple third party apps at the same time. HOWEVER, lets say i am running a third party app (app1) then lets say i launch a second third party app (app2) app1's state will be saved and placed in the background on "pause" if you will, while app2 runs. if i relaunch app1 its last known state will be restored and app2 will go into pause.
I was curious to hear from former Android users how you like WP7. Mainly what are your main gripes and what functions did you actually use that are no longer available. Also, are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it. I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one. Thanks!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Here goes:
Mainly what are your main gripes
No apps, and if there are apps they are over priced and crap alternatives to Android versions.
Homebrew is going to cost money.
I know its a phone and should mainly just be a phone, but there is nothing to do on it, I never leave my Android phone alone always playing with something but this I treat it like a nokia 3310 lol.
What functions did you actually use that are no longer available
I don't know what it is but there are some things missing but Mango is looking good but still not as good as Android and Ice Cream Sandwich will be coming out around the same time.
Are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it.
Only thing that is making me want to swap over is the Xbox Live thing other than that Android is far superior.
I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one.
I love Android also and also wanted to try something new but Windows Phone 7 isn't something new. Stick with Android and Launcher7 lol ^^
I think I'm fine with paying for my phone to be unlocked personally, one time fee for the latest beta builds forever? Honestly I don't know why HTC Samsung and Motorola aren't looking into this for android devices so they can make some extra $ and make us impatient (or reasonable people that don't like waiting for their craptastic skins) people happy.
I don't care much for Xbox live like I use to but I definitely like Zune pass (really its probably the top single feature that has me wanting wp7 as I use my phone for music a lot).
I love android but honestly, I'm tired of trying to throw on custom ROMs (its fun but tiring) on every phone I get trying to keep up with the updates. I think the only thing that is holding me to android at this point is the ability to wifi tether my phone to my tablet and the fact that mango phones are on their way (fall is only 2-3 months away so announcements should be made soon?)
So guys, is there some feature that I am missing that you really either miss from android or you really like that wp7 had when you made the swap?
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
i switched from my old Desire Z and X8 (both of em are still in use sometimes) to a 7 Pro.
so in my own personal opinion, a small "comparision":
1. UI & Customization
I like the UI of WP7 alot more, you can use Launcher7 on Android but it doesn't feel as good. Its smoother and a lot faster, mostly due to inability of "customization" but i really don't miss it. The tile system works surprisingly well, and yeah i don't have a lot to complain about.
No wallpapers, no app launchers etc. It's a locked phone pretty much. If you don't mind, well just don't care
If you want customization stay with Android, else both of em are good in their own ways -> personal preference.
2. Apps
For most people an important point. If you compare Android market to WP7 market, WP7 looses.. big time!
You are charged for almost every app (and a good bunch of em are overpriced!). While free apps, and sometimes test versions of the paid apps are good enough, its still nothing in comparision to Android.
If you want specific apps, check prices first! (i'd recommend it before buying the phone )
There are some social features integrated into WP7 but at the moment (Pre-Mango for me still), they aren't complete. The replacements for those features are at best mediocore, sometimes they shut off randomly etc. There might be some better apps for those, but since i don't use em very much, i havent searched for them.
Otherwise the quality of the apps and games i downloaded is really good, though some of em are missing. As i said, check before you buy the phone, if you didnt already.
3. Features:
Well again the points goes to Android. Bluetooth File Transfer, Tethering and stuff like that, you won't find it on any current WP7 phone (unless you are a Mango user, but i don't know if they implement some of those features). If you need it, well i wouldn't recommend buying a WP7 as of now.
Other than that, i don't really miss any important ones.
4. Final Thoughts:
Since i don't have the WP7 for too long forgive me if i missed or overexaggerated on somethings.
In the end i think, WP7 is a real good OS. While locked down very hard, it just works (just like the hated Apple). While it does feel kind of inferioer to Android (due to the lack of some importants features mostly), it really isn't. There are workarounds for everything, though they are complicated sometimes
With Mango.. well no, even now in MY opinion (which means only for my needs etc), i equal WP7 to Android. While i still use my Androids sometimes (mainly for tethering etc), i often see myself not missing those phones.
I'd recommend WP7 everytime, as well as Android. Just get some information on both, maybe if your friends have said phones, compare them ( or go to the store and do the same).
In the end it comes down to one's need and preference
If you want, you could wait for Mango devices. Though i guess they won't up the hardware too much, maybe add some features like Front Facing Camera and stuff like that, but that's it.
I hope i could help some
BartJJ said:
I was curious to hear from former Android users how you like WP7. Mainly what are your main gripes and what functions did you actually use that are no longer available. Also, are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it. I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one. Thanks!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
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This entire WP7 OS is simply beautiful and fluid. Rather than 95% of all other android devices, all WP7s are completely lag free while still having a very attractive and intuitive interface. I have 28k apps at my disposal and that means one for everything I would want. The WP7 community here is amazing and hacking / development itself isn't fragmented. I've owned 3 android devices and 2 iOS devices in the past and I'm honestly never looking back.
Android too me seems very slow and inconsistent. Running a Samsung Galaxy I often find when the thing lags, it lags to the extreme. The whole app-store mechanism I find a mess, especially because to much power is given to the app developers. More often then not, they abuse these powers which destroys your battery life.
I like the way WP7 is headed, and I like what Microsoft is doing to keep it a reliable platform. What I don't like however, is the update-procedure as it's very poorly performed. I'm not blaming any company in particular, but I do think updates needs to rolled out faster. Why do ISPs have to test every minor update?
Other then that, the WP7 UI is far superior, and app support is coming along well now. We just need a major bump and hopefully Nokia will spark this? I'm looking forward to purchasing a 2nd gen phone, namely a Nokia.
I went from iphone 3gs to blackberry torch to palm pre 2 to samsung focus to atrix 4g to iphone 4 and back to samsung focus and i love it.
The largest difference to me is that WP7 lacks customization. With android you will hardly ever find 2 phones that have the same ui and settings. All windows phones home screens look the same. I am ok w/ lack of apps. Honestly there is pretty much something for everything already. What would make me happy and never go back to android is being able to personalize the home screen. Maybe some transparent tiles and a wallpaper background for homescreen. that would be awesome.
I'll try to keep this succinct. I had an Evo 4G for the last year, then switched to an HTC Arrive a couple days ago.
Like:
-Most of the apps I used on Android are available on WP7
-As a Zune Pass subscriber, having that ecosystem on my phone is awesome
-It feels like for tasks I do often, I can do all of those tasks in a lot less time than it took on Android
-I primarily develop in .NET, so the dev tools are way friendlier to me than Android's.
Dislike:
-WP7 doesn't have anything that comes close to the awesomeness of Google Navigation
-I'm pretty heavily into the Google Voice ecosystem. Losing the tight integration there is annoying.
-As a Zune Pass subscriber, the lack of expandable storage is agonizing. I can never completely get rid of my Zune HD because it's still the device I have to go to if I want access to all of my music/podcasts.
-The Amazon Android App Market's free app of the day has spoiled me so badly on the pricing race-to-the-bottom front that I am finding it very hard to convince myself to buy any of the games on WP7.
Overall, I am having a good time so far. There is some functionality I am missing, but nothing that I'd consider a showstopper. I still have my Evo 4G, so I might end up switching between the two devices every couple months or so.
I just switched from a samsung mesmerize to a HTC TP7.
My first impression was WOW. I instantly liked the tp7. it's more responsive, it's faster, i can do stuff faster, and everything loads faster. Typing on the screen is more accurate and fixes my screw ups better.
As for apps, the android market has tons more, but in my experience 99.99999% of them are completely and totally useless and the ones that aren't useless i found to be lacking. There were a few that were good, but not many. So far the ones i've tried on WP7 actually seem to be of decent quality and i can find an app for everything i need so far. Some are still obviously in the early stages and need some more features but the app feels higher quality. Of course the windows marketplace has it's share of fart, burp and police light apps. (who downloads these stupid things?)
My ONLY complaint so far is the fact i can't do custom colors on the tiles. the stock colors frankly suck. I tried unlocking the phone and chevron doesn't find the phone at all so i'm wondering if this phone just isn't unlockable with that method. Not being able to do custom tile colors just seems like an obvious omission that should have been fixed allready.
Other than that i like this phone MUCH better, it's faster and doesn't hiccup as much as android did. The loss of customization sucks a bit but honestly, who really cares. I'd rather have the phone work well than be able to customize the wallpaper. The tile color though is killing me.
lots of very good points expressed already, and I agree with most.
However: wm6.5 was far superior to my android in all the little area's that I liked / wanted to tweak... which left me disappointed when I switched to android and frustrated with the infancy of the android based os / app wanting some of the simple things that I was used to on wm6.5.
Then I jump back to windows mobile (thinking it will be great to reg edit again) only to find... tile overlay with no access to the good stuff, and on top of that extremely limited in more ways than android... apps (android copycat) extremely limited and very high priced... I never needed apps to do what I wanted. windows already had it, I just needed to turn it on or off and or tweak it the way I wanted it. customize to no end.
Now I really like the smooth integrated feel, and I took a step down in hardware just to get the operating system. I am back to hacking a android wanna be like device just to get to the meat of the phone, so I can use the power of wm7. I think...
Morrisme said:
Now I really like the smooth integrated feel, and I took a step down in hardware just to get the operating system. I am back to hacking a android wanna be like device just to get to the meat of the phone, so I can use the power of wm7. I think...
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It's WP7 !
I think all we have to do is to wait a bit. My only problem is, that the application store is pretty empty(and overpriced), but hopefully it's gonna change.
What I see is, that Microsoft tries to copy Apple in terms of system optimisation, and simplicity, and so far I say it's successful.
I hope once the marketplace will be flooded with applications, there will be a serious filter on what apps they allow, and what they don't. The main criteria of selling on marketplace should be to have a perfectly smooth application on every windows based mobile, because what I see now is far away from that. Applications seem to just thrown together for wp7 in a day or 2.
Otherwise coming from android myself, I miss certain apps, or games, or functions, but the other hand I'm impressed by it's UI, and smoothness.
WP7 has potential, but it's time is not yet here. Once a great poet said in youtube comments: "Iphone is the past, Android is the present, WP7 is the future"
I came from evo 4g and I love it I got an arrive. Its so quick. And something no one mentioned battery life is great sure if I game for a while I will need a top off bit other then that a work day is no problem btw my work day is 12 hrs
There are some surprising holes in WP7 which I didn't expect compared to other OS.
1) No common Compass API - it's down to individual hardware manufacturers to supply drivers and they all implement it in a different way. So what works on an LG won't work on a Samsung or HTC. Really hinders the use of maps and star gazing apps etc. This is despite the compass being a mandatory part of MS' hardware spec. So much for MS' tight hardware platform control. And don't think about trying Mango - even if you have the compass working in NoDo it won't in the Mango Beta - and MS say it wont be availible until the OEMs release their final versions. The whole point of a Beta and RTM is so developers can test and adapt their software ready for launch - but with the compass augmented apps (one of the killer features of modern smartphones) they are screwed. We have a common API for GPS, why not Compass?
2) No PIN delay - even the most basic phone that offers Exchange support allows a configurable delay before the phone is PIN locked, or respects the delay imposed by an Exchange security policy. Everytime my screen goes off - I have to enter an 8 character password - despite the Exchange policy allowing a max 20 minute delay. Is this fixed in mango? Is this how MS works with MS?
..and relax...
A tenuous connection but a thread in the Galaxy S2 forum leads me to wonder whether the present popularity of Android is a bubble about to burst in the very near future.
Why? Fragmentation, of course.
This is still such a serious concern I find it astonishing that Google isn't doing more to address the issue - Icecream Sandwich is rumoured to merge the phone and tablet ecosystems but it doesn't address the fundamental problem.
Taking a quick look at the Android Market gives us a clearer understanding. It's now so difficult to reliably develop for multiple devices, we even have multiple markets. EA release on one, then there's Tegra Zone, Gameloft, and many others. Divide it further by Android version and region, and it's no wonder that Google is panicking about low app sales.
Then we have the compatibility problems between phones. The most common review on most new apps is a one-star "Doesn't work on my [insert phone]. Uninstalled." Yet this is an app that worked perfectly in the emulator on multiple Android versions and on the developer's own device, and the support from Google is non-existent.
This is the case even on the simplest apps because they're expected to take into account almost unbelievably complicated hardware configurations. Look at the way Samsung handle their internal storage by referring to it as "/sdcard", with the actual SD card in a subdirectory and called "external_sd". Except when you look at it in a memory manager, you get "System Storage", "USB Storage", and "SD Card." Doesn't work? No bloody wonder!
Now take into account anything that uses OpenGL. You'd think that this would work across all devices but no, vastly different architectures leave a pond of 3D-ness with little islands of individual game compatibility.
On one front you have incredibly powerful devices such as the Galaxy S2, on the other you have the capable Tegra platform being pushed like crazy by nVidia who offer support on condition that games are locked to their platform. Could you imagine where we'd be without Chainfire, who's stunning insight allows us to share most of these games across all platforms.
But why didn't Google do this? The openness of Android is a great thing - even though, of course, it's not really open any more - yet this wide hardware and software ecosystem may well be its downfall.
Consider Windows Phone 7 (have one of these in addition to my Android phone). 18 months ago it was considered a laughing stock by the community - now, it's charging ahead with Mango, the update will be released to every single phone regardless of age, the app store is filling up with useful apps, and Google and Apple are both running scared.
So... is it the end of Android as we know it?
...... You really shouldn't ask yourself easy questions. So your saying a metro pcs android phone should be able to handle everything in the market? At no point when my girl bought her netbook did she think that it could handle crysis.
So in your perfect world android should only be one certain type of hardware. Also most likely one form factor.
Fragmentation has never affected me
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Sorry I don't post all that often but anyhoo, this I felt compelled to reply to because you're trying to compare a banana to a small weasel.
I owned a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone. What a piece of junk. And app development was a nightmare. It was like Android, running on a plethora of different hardware configurations, but also unlike Android in that it had no centralized app repository nor any sort of openness or support for non-Windows platforms.
And now you have Windows Phone 7, which has addressed all the shortcomings of 6.5 and early with an entirely new approach, and yes, it is definitely one way of solving a problem. But they've also done what Microsoft does best and browbeaten vendors into meeting their minimum standards for phones, which is *why* there's near-perfect app support. You buy a WinMo phone yep, you can guarantee it'll run apps because they're all built to a minimum standard which is not minimal at all.
I have my beautiful little heavily hacked T-Mobile Comet that I got free with a contract extension. It might be a little slow sometimes but it lets me read my books and make my calls and listen to my tunes and it's all I need from a smart phone. You can run servers on it and connect to work networks and block ads and all manner of things that can never be done without great difficulty on a platform like Win Phone 7.
The sheer might and majesty of Android is in the "fragmentation." I can run the latest 2.3 on a phone built for 2.2, overclock well past factory, and it doesn't blink or drain battery in half an hour. The specs are WAY below what would be considered the "minimum" for a Windows Phone and yet here it is running the latest and greatest without complaint. It wouldn't even get past the bootloader with Windows. I love that. You can accomplish so much with Android, in fact if there's a bug you can usually figure out how to fix it yourself or find a dev who has an idea on the subject.
I'll gladly take Firefox not being built for my phone yet over Windows where I might never see crucial software. There're other web browsers out there and the great thing about Android is, eventually it'll either be built officially or somebody'll figure out how to compile it. Good luck finding that with Windows Phone 7.