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I can't believe I'm saying this, but the iPhone is amazing (Long post)

I know you guys probably heard this a thousand times (and a forum search shows this) and what I'm about to say is probably very cliche, but the iPhone is a pretty amazing device.
Typically, I am a WM man (I currently own an HTC Touch Pro), and I've owned WM phones/devices for a long time now. I tried other OSes (Symbian, Palm OS), but ultimately, I prefer WM. When the iPhone first appeared, I disregarded it almost entirely because it's made by Apple. As someone familiar with Apple, I just didn't like them very much (largely due to their design philosophy).
Things didn't look like they were about to change. In fact, the next phones I was seriously looking at was the Toshiba TG01, Samsung Omnia HD i9810, and Samsung Omnia Pro B7610. Two of these are Windows Mobile and one is Symbian (which I was less likely to get anyway). The only major difference is that they aren't HTC (I want to move away from HTC because I exceedingly dislike Qualcomm).
However, something special happened yesterday: My friend invited me to lunch and he showed me his new iPhone 3GS. He allowed me to play with it.
In one word: Incredible!
As my intuition knew, I ended up not liking the design of the OS (I still prefer WM's design), but I couldn't really deny how well made the iPhone really is. More than anything else, I really have to compliment how extremely optimized it really is. Opening any software, going to the home screen, playing movies/music, and doing just about anything really was incredibly smooth. The entire time I was with my friend, I just gushed and gushed about this one aspect. The reason why is because it really is incredible how fast everything was.
The truth is that when compared side to side with my Touch Pro, the speed is really the same. However, a few things to note. First, everyone know how the iPhone seems to use "gradual transitions"? To elaborate, whenever you do anything, such as opening software or rotation, it is done in real time, and you can see the changes with your eyes. This is as opposed to WM where it is done immediately (for example, rotating with my TP results in an immediate change as opposed to you seeing the screen rotate on the iPhone).
This seems like a minor thing, but it has a large effect on perception. Notably, it makes you perceive it as being faster. When I counted down the seconds on the iPhone and WM, I noticed that opening programs and rotation are really done at the same speed, but the iPhone's gradual transition effects makes you perceive it as being faster, which is actually pretty nice.
Second thing and a very important point: My TP uses a custom ROM, which is why its speed was on par with that of the iPhone. If it had been using the stock ROM, I am positive that the iPhone would have crushed it in speed.
This seems like a moot point because I *can* use custom ROMs, but note that this forum and all of its custom ROMs are largely exclusive to HTC phones (with the sole exception of the Xperia...which was made by HTC anyway). What happens if I decide to use another WM phone (for example, the Samsung B7610)? Then I would have no choice but to remain with the stock ROM or at least hope someone would develop the stray ROM for the Samsung devices (such as the i900 on XDA).
At this point, I'm also willing to blame the speed issue on hardware. After all, the iPhone is about 72MHZ faster than my phone, and it also also has a dedicated graphics chip. On the other hand, I also have to take into consideration that it takes a custom, optimized ROM for my device to keep up with the stock ROM on a series of device which is notorious for being outdated (anyone remember the iPhone 2G)?
If anyone is wondering, am I thinking about switching to the dark side? Unfortunately, no. While the huge number of apps and the great speed is tantalizing, I am still the guy who frequently spends 4+ hours changing the ROMs on his phones (and tweaking it afterwards). I'm also the guy who frequently goes into the settings menu because he nitpicks about how each little thing on his phone works.
Can I switch to something that won't allow me that much customization? Speaking as someone who's about to change the ROM on his phone again, the answer appears to be a pretty clear 'no' as this point.
On, the other hand, while playing with the iPhone, I did find myself wishing that the Windows Mobile experience was as smooth, and great as with the iPhone, especially on stock ROMs. I also did find myself wondering what Windows Mobile 7 will be like (I can't wonder with WM6.5 because I'm using it now). But of course, what do people saying about wishing too much? It's useless.
Am I going mad?

I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.

Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Apparently that's wrong.

I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Screen went a nice mix of colours and it totally stopped working. Quite a few plug ins to the computer and it came back to life.
There just to fragile and to big(iphone is thicker than the touch also), good girls phone or if you carry a handbag.
Glade I got the Jade not a problem so far.

thedigitel said:
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
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Click to collapse
Is that the AT&T contract you have to sign up for to get an iPhone? If that's the case, why not just buy the iPhone unlocked? It's expensive, but it cost about as much as any HTC phone I've seen.
charge1313 said:
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of right now, the iPhone has roughly 50K-60K of apps while the last article detailing how many apps Windows Mobile seems to have stopped at 20K. Futhermore, the iPhone famously beaten Windows Mobile in reaching 25K apps, and I find it highly unlikely that Windows Mobile caught up.
Even from an outside perspective, though, it seems to me that the iPhone has an impressive number of apps, including a plethora of ones that Windows Mobile never seems to get (or is even capable of getting).
stu-k said:
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.

I entirely agree.
My wife has a Gen 1 iphone, and I recently updated it to version 3 and unlocked and jailbreaked.
In the old days, WM had thousands of apps as one of its killer features.
I recently spent a few evenings installing apps on the wife's phone, and I was blown away. Not necessarily by the quality, but by the experience.
Everything is smooth, everything works, the user experience is "unchallenging".
I love tweaking, I love coding, I love spending MONTHS dissecting the WinMob OS to implement a tiny hack. But you know what? Why bother?!
I can't see myself giving up on WinMob - it's got momentum, and I can't be bothered to learn Objective C. I'm barely coping with C++ as it is.
But, to paraphrase Gauntlet, "WinMob [may be] about to die".
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
But - the user experience is OLD.
And I think one of the most fundamental flaws is also one of the biggest strengths - WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware. But the problem:
WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware.
Some of those have graphic accelerators, some don't.
Some have dpads, some don't.
Some have 600mhz CPUs, some don't.
The iphone is a single homogeneous ecosystem.
Coders know they can anti-alias without trying to code to the lowest common denominator 200mhz phone with 16mb of ram. They know exactly what they're gonna get with an iphone. And that fact means they know the limitations, and how to pitch what they've got at the right performance considerations. They know what they're working on. The Human Interface spec is incredible, and incredibly helpful. Users expect an experience, naturally, because it feels natural. Apple encourages that, and coders have to honour it.
I think most of the iphone experience can and should be emulated on WinMob.
I'm not just talking about cloning Springboard and everything else. Yes, we can emulate this and that - our coders on XDA devs are incredible, and could do every bit of it.
But we need more: the experience of just being able to use the phone and expect it to work needs to be emulated.
I don't think the iphone is necessarily a better piece of hardware: I prefer my Touch HD. But clearly the user experience, the user interface paradigm, the reward of just being able to use the thing easily needs to be implemented - from the ground up.
I don't think this is going to happen on WinMob; I think the strength/limitations of a wide open platform means this probably can't happen. I think that like Win CE before it, WinMob will end up being relegated to a certain environment that has low expectations (eg Enterprise markets).
But if "Windows" devices are going to survive, I think the change has to happen at a much higher level. I can only hope that Pink or whatever is on the horizon for WinMob 7 is an integrated piece of hardware and user experience designed from the ground up to feel like it's the 21st century... using WinMob out of pity is going to get old, very very soon.
V

8525Smart said:
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
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Click to collapse
Have to agree, I hate carry around two devices. Hence no longer use Ipod touch on the go, just leave it at home in docking station, which its good for.
Use the Jade for music and a phone which fits on my pocket.
I find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good

vijay555 said:
I entirely agree.
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my God, yes, YES!
I can't count the number of times I had to defend WinMo against people who obviously never used it. The number of ridiculously comments I seen was ludicrous and often times seem as if the people saying it were just parroting common criticisms as opposed to their actual experience.
One guy I saw even suggested that receiving text/emails and switching between apps was impossible.
On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post too (as is the subject of my topic). I think you really hit the nail on the head: Windows Mobile's biggest strength, its availability on multiple phones, is also its biggest weakness.
As an owner of a Fuze, an HTC phone with an accelerometer, the lack of accelero-meter WinMo apps makes it very apparent.
I do agree with you that Microsoft needs to do something, at the very least, about the user experience, but I really don't see how it can be done. The iPhone is able to achieve this because it is a software available on one hardware designed by Apple themselves. In order for Microsoft to achieve the same quality of apps or user experience, they would have to design Windows Mobile to take advantage of a particular hardware specification.
As of currently, the best Microsoft can probably achieve is to design Windows Mobile with the best optimization they can while maintaining good compatibility and appearance with a wide number of hardware.
stu-k said:
HI find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be true, but to be fair, the Windows Mobile landscape isn't exactly clear of 'gimmicky' apps either. Some of them even inspired by iPhone equivalents.
HDWobble, anyone?

The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4

This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.

jim_0068 said:
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?

poetryrocksalot said:
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.

crazy talk said:
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh that's a shame... this app is useless then. I heard that Apple is considering the idea of having full support for background applications.
The problem is that:
1) Apple knows that not many people care about "background" applications.
2) Consumer common sense is distorted in that they don't understand the purpose of multi-task. They believe that multi-task is already on the iPhone because obviously, you can "exit the application into another application". This isn't the point, a true multitasking system requires A) background applications B) automation of background functions and C) the ability to switch tasks in the foreground of an application.
3) Apple knows that adding background applications will result in people complaining of slowness because 1) Alot of people still don't know what RAM is, not even my sister who is a 4+ year college student working on her masters and 2) Alot of people do not know how to manage a platform involving background applications and 3) average consumers would rather sacrifice functionality for ease-of-use.
I believe the emphasis of this multi-tasking is not a multi-tasking complaint. Idiots are prone to think that the iPhone already has multi-tasking; I've seem them argue about it. We need to add a mentality to people in which they learn that it isn't about multi-tasking, it's about background applications and how we need applications to function in the background.

Well the 3GS has double the ram and faster processor, hopefully they (third-parties) can find a way to make actual multi-tasking more plausible.

new beast in town
the android os is really taking shape and will soon be king. with so many different devices coming aboard this thing will be huge. the g1 now is awesome with just a little tweaking and those who don't want to tweak there are 2 more ota coming in the next 5 months.

nonzenze said:
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
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Click to collapse
Hmm, very informative read, Thank you,
So the 3GS apparently has a superior CPU in more ways than one, which I'm not really surprised about. I did mentioned that I did not like HTC's choice of CPUs...which they're still using in their newest devices. Many other devices are already using the Cortex A8, so if it is the case that HTC is losing out due to the CPU, then that doesn't bode well for their future phones.
jim_0068 said:
To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, everything you said is true. A jailbroken iPhone is a very nice thing and probably does well for tinkerers. In fact, the 3GS that my friend let me used was jailbroken too.
However, truthfully, installing apps that lets me do new things wasn't what I was really referring to before. Instead, I was largely referring to the changing of ROMs/OS. I believe the iPhone has made some progress running Linux, but nothing else as far as I can see. WM Phone has so many different ROMs available and progress has been made on running Linux (including Android) too. This allows for much more customization, in my opinion as you get the benefit of software-based customization combined with ROM/OS-based.
Besides, it's pretty fun to be running Windows Mobile 6.5 while everyone else is still using Windows Mobile 6.1.

Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V

My opinion is that in order to be a solid competitor, Microsoft needs to limit the hardware choices for their platform. HTC does a great job at making devices for Windows Mobile. Microsoft needs to pair up with them to make their own phone. With the new Zune HD coming out featuring the nVidia Tegra chipset, it would make a wonderful platform to build the next generation WM phone from. The thing is, it should be the only phone featuring WM 7 Professsional. It will enable Microsoft to fine tune WM to use every bit of the phone's capabilities, leaving nothing to be desired. Much like they do with their PC OS's, there can be several versions of the main OS with steps in capabilities. Their Zune HD phone should be the candidate for WM7 Ultimate, which would feature smooth transitions and speed.
Edit: Just saw the post above mine. I need to read more!

vijay555 said:
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.

8525Smart said:
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think the only company that can actually create a truly direct competitor to Apple and iPhone is Microsoft...it's the name and not the product.....
Apple had a bad rep back then and now they are doing good.
It seems like Microsoft is tagged after Apple jumped the boat to success.
We'll just have to wait for Microsoft to adopt Apple's precedent.
With Microsoft directly creating their own phone and not just an OS, we might actually get a true iPhone killer. Though Microsoft may have to revamp the entire OS and create their own line of OS totally unrelated to Windows Mobile.

Your opinions on ALL OSes

Ok, basically my wife is looking into a new phone and our options are more or less limitless, she just wants advantages and disadvantages of each OS. She's not picky and doesn't always need the most popular OS, she wants form, factor, and function. I am looking for a phone that will take a sim so trying to avoid Verizon and Sprint phones. Heres my opinions on the ones I can think up.
iOS-I wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole personally but regardless of my personal feelings if it's jailbroken it's not actually a terrible OS just a bit bland. The hardware limitations and the fact that they're still building the same updates for the 2g that they are for the 4g causes some immense limitations and I cant think of an update that made a real difference.
Android- Good but often laggy even with a snapdragon. The UI customization is nice but they're killing themselves not allowing a GPU accelerated UI. I have a Dell Streak for my "fun phone" and though I love it it does seem more appealing to have a phone that "just works" for her. I dont think android will be quite as long-lived though its doing well so far. How can one expect a UI to have devoted developers when you can get anything you want free.
Windows phone 7- Perfect business device, still in what seems almost an open beta phase and lacking a lot of basic features. More promise than any other OS but for the time being it's not living up to the hype.
BadaOS-Support? What support? plays out like a bad WebOS ripoff
Blackberry-Just the most boring thing in the world. Aside from battery life I cannot seem to realize how this OS sells well outside of the old people who dont really know how to use a phone but want something high end...
WebOS- It had it's day in the spotlight and that didn't last too long... I mean its functional but feels almost dirty compared to the more modern OSes
WM6.5- Great OS for someone who wants to devote hours and hours and hours to customizing it to be the most functional OS. Sadly the only device worth having thats wm6.5 anymore is the LEO/HD2.
These are all opinions of mine, she just wants to know the opinion of others. Thanks for your input.

What is her level of technical expertise?
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Moderate, a gaming device would be great but something with a pleasant UI is more appealing

If you don't mind about the limited hardware choice then iOS is very good, especially for newcomers. It'll probably make your life easier (less questions to answer).
Android is a different matter. The experience depends highly on what manufacturer you go for, but if you choose well then you get one of the best (functionality-wise) smartphone OSes out there together with a wide choice of hardware.
Personally I'd suggest the Nexus S (if you can cope with 16GB storage), or failing that the Galaxy S. Both are lovely devices, but the Nexus edges it with it's lovely display, GPU accelerated transitions (Android finally somewhat smooth) and Gingerbread.
Windows Phone 7? If you're a big business and/or Office user, then it's probably the easiest OS to get working with. It has good video/gaming capabilities and a GPU accelerated UI but currently suffers from limited storage space on most devices.
Choose if you love the UI or are a OneNote addict, otherwise I'd stick to the safer bet of Android/iOS for the time-being and wait for things to play out. You probably wouldn't buy a device running iOS 1 or Android 1.5 today, so I'd wait for Windows 7 to catch-up. It is good. It will be great, just in a little while.
That said you should have no problem editing/viewing Office docs or accessing Exchange email on either Android or iOS.
BlackBerry OS - used to be the pinnacle of a smartphone OS, but a lack of innovation and poor hardware has choked the platform, and RIM have said that in the future top-end BlackBerry devices will run the QNX OS they are running on the PlayBook.
WebOS - very good, but still failed to catch up fully with iOS/Android even with the recent update. That said, I think someone has to try a WebOS first - some people love it, some hate it. Limited range of apps.
WinMo 6.5 - Do not buy anymore, unless your business requires it.
Bada OS - Just no. No developers. No apps. No fantastic devices.

joeearl13 said:
If you don't mind about the limited hardware choice then iOS is very good, especially for newcomers. It'll probably make your life easier (less questions to answer).
Android is a different matter. The experience depends highly on what manufacturer you go for, but if you choose well then you get one of the best (functionality-wise) smartphone OSes out there together with a wide choice of hardware.
Personally I'd suggest the Nexus S (if you can cope with 16GB storage), or failing that the Galaxy S. Both are lovely devices, but the Nexus edges it with it's lovely display, GPU accelerated transitions (Android finally somewhat smooth) and Gingerbread.
Windows Phone 7? If you're a big business and/or Office user, then it's probably the easiest OS to get working with. It has good video/gaming capabilities and a GPU accelerated UI but currently suffers from limited storage space on most devices.
Choose if you love the UI or are a OneNote addict, otherwise I'd stick to the safer bet of Android/iOS for the time-being and wait for things to play out. You probably wouldn't buy a device running iOS 1 or Android 1.5 today, so I'd wait for Windows 7 to catch-up. It is good. It will be great, just in a little while.
That said you should have no problem editing/viewing Office docs or accessing Exchange email on either Android or iOS.
BlackBerry OS - used to be the pinnacle of a smartphone OS, but a lack of innovation and poor hardware has choked the platform, and RIM have said that in the future top-end BlackBerry devices will run the QNX OS they are running on the PlayBook.
WebOS - very good, but still failed to catch up fully with iOS/Android even with the recent update. That said, I think someone has to try a WebOS first - some people love it, some hate it. Limited range of apps.
WinMo 6.5 - Do not buy anymore, unless your business requires it.
Bada OS - Just no. No developers. No apps. No fantastic devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thank you for your reply my wife still wants WP7 but I keep trying to tell her that even though I use it it could take time to work the kinks out. She is considering android but samsung devices are hard to go with especially the galaxy S devices due to the buffer overrun issues. I think we've more or less narrowed it down to those two its just hard to pick which though she is in love with the netflix integration. I think its between the mytouch 4g and the samsung focus

The MT4G is a fantastic device. I'm sure she'd have more fun with it than WP7 and its limited options.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Now when you say limited options what do you mean? I only ask because I recently converted to windows phone 7 after tinkering with android for 2 years and never once having something that felt 'complete.' Also is there any site that I can make one of those phone histories on or do I have to use paint?

WM: The most tested OS good and stable for business, thousands of apps, tweaks, themes, etc a lot of knowledge.
Android: Nice to play with as all is new and free but I got easily bored
WP7: So new, needs more time to get mature. Too closed similar to apple

The hardware limitations and the fact that they're still building the same updates for the 2g that they are for the 4g causes some immense limitations and I cant think of an update that made a real difference.
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Click to collapse
No they aren't. The 2g is stuck on Ios 3.2, while the Iphone 4 is on 4.2. Plus the hardware in the Iphone 4 is just about as fast as Snapdragon, and cortex. Hell, the A4 is a Cortex A8.
Android- I like Android a lot, but some of the manufactures don't take it as seriously as I like, and some manufactures are terrible with updates.(Samsung) And the UI isn't hardware accelerated AFAIK. But very easy to customize, I like that. Manufactures can make Android great, or bad.(Motorola, I'm talking to you with your Motoblur crap)
Ios- I like Ios too, but there are a few issues with it. AT&T is the big one, and the second issue because of that is limited data. I can't say that it's a bad thing that to make it useful to my standards, you have to jailbreak it because every Android phone I've had I've rooted for it to work great. I wish Apple would come out with an Iphone with a screen bigger than 3.7inch. And I wish Steve would not have so much hatred towards Adobe, because that means no real flash for Iphone while it's fully capable of it. Frash is okay for the Iphone, but real flash would be better.
BB Os- I'll tell you the same thing I tell people I sell these to. Blackberry is a business phone, so don't expect the fun and colorful UI you see in other OSes. It is very simple to use though, but RIM is stuck on hardware that was released almost 2 years ago. The Pre is originally clocked at 600 mhz like the Droid, the chip inside the Torch which is the newest Blackberry is only at 624 mhz, like the Storm, the Storm 2, the Bold, etc etc. Also, Blackberry does not like to update their phones to the current OS, despite most of the phones having the same specs. It is what it is.
Windows Mobile 6.5- Not bad, but not great. A nice business OS though.
Windows Phone 7- I like it a lot, but no flash support right now is a killer. I don't mind it not having things like bluetooth transfer since I really don't use it, but I would like copy and paste. Also they need to hurry up and expand to different carriers! D:
Symbian- Personally I never used it, but people say it is very versatile.
Webos- I like Webos a lot, I really do. But there simply isn't enough support behind it from developers, which means a huge lack of apps compared to Android and Ios. The big thing that kills me about it, is the fact that the Pre only has a 3inch screen, even the Pre 2 has a 3inch screen despite having specs that can be compared to the Droid 2!
Bada- Samsung, so I can't expect too much from it. I haven't tried it though, and I really don't want to.

What kind of user is your wife? If she wants a phone that does games, txt, email etc... then you have to take into consideration what is the best at these?
IOS even with it's limitations is probably the most "polished" out there. Has a huge base of followers, tons of apps, and it does work out of the box. Sure it's bland in its interface and your locked in with AT&T and the iWorld of Apple. Not to mention that you can't do anything with the hardware itself.
Android: Catching up to Apple - but still not the "iPhone killer" - yet. I personally love Android - and with enough tweaking I don't experience lag on my Captivate. But.. I would highly suggest NOT getting a Galaxy S phone. Too many issues with the devices to merit getting. I would go with an HTC.
Win Mobile 7: Although this looks promising.. if I wanted a boring interface and all the junk that goes with the OS? I'd have an iPhone. And not to mention it's still in its infancy - so who knows if it will go the way of the Do Do bird?

Should also mention about Android, if she gets an Android phone but doesn't root it, then she'll have to deal with all the bloatware the carriers put on the phone.

Can someone really tell me what WP7 and iphone comparisons there really are aside from their more strict markets. I mean yeah you cant sideload apps as easy as android but what motivation do devs have to continue developing if their apps are distributed for free.

For the simple love of sharing!!!
As it have been done for many years in WM
z33dev33l said:
Can someone really tell me what WP7 and iphone comparisons there really are aside from their more strict markets. I mean yeah you cant sideload apps as easy as android but what motivation do devs have to continue developing if their apps are distributed for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Slightly Off Topic - Any Fans of WP7 in here?

I am loving my SAMSUNG INFUSE...I am nearing my 30 day return policy and I've been tempted to go get the AT&T HDC HD7s only because I've had my eye on WP7 for a very long time...but I realize that while that phone was pretty good when it was released with T-Mobile, it's hardware is aging and even Mango isn't enough to lure me...here's why:
Front Facing Camera: I've used it several times when my daughter and I are out and want to snap a shot together. My wife and I have also used Qix video chat a few times a week to chat at lunch.
4G: Yeah, it's not "real" 4G but it counts...
Customization: If I want a totally new launcher screen (live tiles on WP7), I can go from my built in touchwiz, to LauncherPro or my currently in use SPB Shell 3D. I like having "tiles" of screens of categories of apps/functions. On the flip side, I DO like live tiles in WP7. I did convince someone to purchase a WP7 and I played around with it for a while and it seemed more like SPB Shell in a sense...nice look, low utility value.
Here is my "day to day" that I use with my Infuse
Outlook Syncing: I sync Contacts, Calendar, Tasks AND Notes via Companionlink/DejaOffice...it works rather well...not as clean as ActiveSync did but it works well and wirelessly. I used ActiveSync for 4-5 years and simply can't live without syncing with Outlook.
Remtoe Desktop: When I get paged, in a pinch, the VPN and Remote Desktop (especially Citrix receiver) come in handy with my Android Phone.
Dropbox: I am a heavy DropBox user. I know better SkyDrive functions are coming with Mango but I need this now. I can also do the same with SkyDrive on Droid with an app called Sorami.
I am not trashing WP7 at all...just couldn't take a step back for 18-24 months (contract). The HD7 is a fine phone but it does lack some in the camera area compared to the Infuse. Considering I don't want to lose my most important features now, I could really never leave Android...they are now leading the pack in terms of being cutting edge...thoughts?

Personally, not a fan of WM7 at all. Used WM devices in pre-android era and loved it, but as soon as I saw the horrific (personal opinion) WM7 interface, immediatly switched to android and never looked back.
In my opinion, the whole design idea of WM7 (partial display of a big palette with info) is ballsy, but incredibly stupid.
Personal opinions aside, WM7 has many limitations which I won't list here. Also, their sales are terribad, Microsoft just confirmed that themselves (see engadget). Also, merger with Nokia (WM7 may suffer from that), slow buggy updates (Mango, cut/paste).. Plus, u'll be throwing away the huge android community.
My personal advice is that switching from Android to WM7 is an all-around a really bad idea.
But, your decision.

I would never take a windows phone over an android. Better programming, better phones, now support on Android.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App

i like windows layout but could never leave android for it. but i do occasionally use launcher 7 in the market to get my fix. the dev has done a great job with it. but even using that you soon realize the limitations of it. i do like that focus though.

not really. i used to laugh at the guys that started all the " can we port wp7 to the captivate" threads, i couldnt understand what the appeal was when andriod already had a huge comunity and range of hardware. i think the vertical scrolling is a good idea if you keep the number of apps down. it is good as a phone but not good as a smart phone.

There's no apps. Simple.
Sent from my Infuse

DarkDvr said:
Personally, not a fan of WM7 at all. Used WM devices in pre-android era and loved it, but as soon as I saw the horrific (personal opinion) WM7 interface, immediatly switched to android and never looked back.
In my opinion, the whole design idea of WM7 (partial display of a big palette with info) is ballsy, but incredibly stupid.
Personal opinions aside, WM7 has many limitations which I won't list here. Also, their sales are terribad, Microsoft just confirmed that themselves (see engadget). Also, merger with Nokia (WM7 may suffer from that), slow buggy updates (Mango, cut/paste).. Plus, u'll be throwing away the huge android community.
My personal advice is that switching from Android to WM7 is an all-around a really bad idea.
But, your decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I am not...I would lose too much functionality. Is it me or is Android like Windows Mobile but much better? Maybe it is me...

android is android
i like the whole simple live tile interface.
thats about it,

WP7 is really good at basic functions like phone calls, texting, pictures, sharing pictures, email, etc. The lack of apps is the real deal-breaker for me. I generally like it, though.

WP7 vs Android, help me out

I'll be getting a new phone within the next month probably. The question is what OS it will run. Currently I have a Motorola Milestone XT720 running Android (running a poor build of CM7 right now). The phone has an underpowered processor and miniscule amount of RAM and doesn't do the best job of running android.
I've been watching WP7 for a while and I've felt tempted to make the switch from Android to WP7. I think Android is a great OS, but I have issues with some aspects of it and have been checking out the other camp (iOS/iPhone does not appeal to me at ALL btw).
Here's what appeals to me about WP7:
+ Metro UI looks slick, pretty and unique
+ All the transitions around the OS (at least as I've seen in videos) look fantastic. Really looks like a lot of detail, animations and polish around the entire OS.
+The unified UX and UI of Metro are really appealing to me, who has had a headache of an experience with Android (I am what I believe is a "power user" and do not have trouble with technology, but navigation and looks of android have been clunky).
-ICS brings more polish to Android and looks like a big improvement but google has basically taken the swiping around OS straight from Microsoft's book and the new UI isn't as consistent around the entire OS as I'd like to be (as opposed to Metro).
+ Some Microsoft services. Zune looks gorgeous, and the service seems interesting (although I found the previous model in which users kept 10 songs at end of month more appealing). Microsoft Office looks very nice and seems to have all the productivity I need (Google Doc app on Android pretty much sucks - though I do like gdocs in general). I use my android primarily for productivity and music and looks like WP7 has great stuff built in.
+ I hear performance and battery life on WP7 generally tops android.
+ "The phone to save me from my phone". When I saw that ad campaign a year ago when I had just gotten my android, I didn't really get what the tagline meant. After spending a year endlessly tweaking, theming and modifying my android in every way possible, I understand. Android is customizable and that is nice. However, I waste so much time with that aspect of Android. What I want is the complete package, in a beautiful design that simply works. It's what I spent all that time tweaking android and switching ROMs to achieve, but I never seem to be happy. I feel that WP7 may actually save me from my phone.
The problem with WP7 for me:
- I worry about making the switch from Android's massive app market to WP7's smaller one. I do see the statements about it being the fastest growing one though.
- There are a number of standout apps on Android that are simply amazing quality apps. (i.e. PowerAmp, SPB Shell 3D, Beautiful Widgets etc...) Can anyone list some unique quality apps that WP7 has? Like 5-10 app list would be great.
- I'm a fan of a bunch of google services. How do the microsoft ones compare? (i.e. bing vs google, office vs docs, maps etc...)
- APPS ARE SO DARN EXPENSIVE. Looked at the market the other day and saw games seem to go on average at $7 as opposed to Android where pretty much everything is free.
- Where are the phones? This is my biggest issue with WP7 right now. I live in Canada and use AWS for my carrier. There are like 2-3 WP7 phones that work with my carrier (WIND) and they are all old stuff from like WP7 launch. The new phones don't seem to be carrying AWS 1700/2100 bands. New Nokia phones looking amazing (except for lack of ffcamera) but no AWS bands and not coming to Canada for a while (and I want to get a new phone within the month). What WP7 phone with good specs could I get if I wanted one?
Galaxy Nexus is coming to Canada and works with Wind and has amazing specs so that might be what I end up with... but I'd like to know if I can consider getting WP7.
Lastly, if you've made the switch from Android to WP7, please feel free to share your thoughts on how you feel after the switch.
Thanks!
(Hopefully I posted this in the right section - not sure)

I'm a windows mobile / windows phone lover and have been since day 1 so I won't go on and on about why you should jump to wp7, but I will say this...
Now that Nokia has entered the fray the app market and support will grow more and more... There will be new wp7 users purely because of nokia...
My mates are all android boys and i gotta say, its looking dated compared to wp7... My android mates marvel at the speed of metro ui when they see me check on several emails and some text messages and delete them and have the phone back in my belt pouch in seconds...

Well you won't need SPB Shell or Beautiful Widgets in WP7, since WP7 is already 'beautiful' enough and I'm sure you'll agree with me. PowerAMP is pretty sweet in that it can play a lot of file types, something you can't do in WP7, but I really don't see the need to play so many types of files. Usually I use my phone to watch Youtube videos, which WP7 does flawlessly, or listen to MP3 songs, not some other funny formats. But then again, it depends on your usage.
There are a lot of quality apps in WP7, but I don't know what to recommend because it's basically all up to your usage. I find things like 'The Onion 7' and 'Cyanide and Happiness' really unique and good on WP7, but it's not for everybody.
For those apps that are 'for everybody', the integrated Facebook and Twitter experience is really something that is unmatched. There are really good Twitter apps too like Birdsong for more functionality.
As for Microsoft services vs Google services, I'll have to say that Microsoft has the upper hand in Office compared to GDocs, and Google has the upper hand in their Maps. Bing vs GSearch, it's subjective. I find GSearch much better for searching serious stuff, while Bing in WP7 is really useful is helping make your life easier. Local cinemas, food and stuff like that. I don't get to enjoy them because I live in a country that is not supported by Bing.
At the end of the day, I think the question you have to ask yourself is this: Are apps more important, or general user experience more important?
Because WP7 is still really short on apps. The big names are there, but when it comes to maybe your local cinema or airlines to purchase ticket, or funky apps like FaceNiff to steal people's Facebook passwords, WP7 just won't have it for now. I can't say for the future.
Meanwhile, WP7 is great on the user experience. Live Tiles to me is much more functional than Widgets, battery life is great, UI is fluid and responsive, seldom crashes, more integrated services (I use the integrated Facebook chat a lot, it has become sort of a WhatsApp for me.), less problems.
I'm using a HD2, couldn't stand using NoDo, went back to Android NAND, wanted to try Mango 'just for fun', stuck with it. Just couldn't leave it. I'm seriously considering buying the Nokia Lumia 800.

it depends...now I'm on the WP7 side...
I'm a proud owner of a HD2 and with it I passed through WM 6.5 all Android Roms and finally WP7
The decision is hard, by the way if you go with WP7 will not regret you just have to wait 6 months to have a Marketplace comparable (in quality) with Android Market. If I have to chose, I would not consider Android if I was not meant to root it; if you want to root then wait for ICS to see if that brings something worth...
This is my view;
- Phone core features: both are extremely dependable, Android has been optimized a bit more and usually drains less battery (even if that depends also on the HW). I would give 10/10 to Android and 9/10 to WP7
- Phone UI: Android stock UI sucks, maybe ICS will be better but at the moment the only comparable UI are MIUI (there are excellent themes) and at some extent Sense, but that means that you have to root it. I would give 9/10 to WP7 and 6/10 to stock Android (8/10 to MIUI and 7/10 to Sense)
- Embedded Apps: WP7 has embedded Mobile Office, a wonderful Zune and an excellent Messaging apps; I would give 9/10 to WP7 and 6/10 to stock Android
- Third Party Integration; Android is great and API natively support deep integration with 3pp applications; I would 9/10 to Android, 6/10 to WP7
- Market: Functionally wise they are similar; Android Market counts "uncountable" apps, MS Marketplace is at its beginning...but many useful and popular apps have been ported and in the last 3 months it has improved a lot, so I expect a huge development with current (Nokia) and future device launches (Christmas)
- Other: WP7 is coupled with Zune that is a great piece of SW; nothing similar on Android side. I would give 9/10 to WP7 and 6/10 to Android

Thanks guys. I was worried I would be getting "Android sucks GO WP7!" posts as replies, but responses so far have been exactly what I'm looking for - good analysis. Of course I'm not quite ready to make my decision, but does anyone have any idea of any upcoming T-mo or other AWS 1700/2100 band WP7 phones coming out soon? Do you think Nokia will make a 1700/2100 band Lumia?
On a side note - I find it dissapointing that there's no front facing camera on the lumia. With the skype buyout by microsoft that seems like a really poor decision.

syrenz said:
Thanks guys. I was worried I would be getting "Android sucks GO WP7!" posts as replies, but responses so far have been exactly what I'm looking for - good analysis. Of course I'm not quite ready to make my decision, but does anyone have any idea of any upcoming T-mo or other AWS 1700/2100 band WP7 phones coming out soon? Do you think Nokia will make a 1700/2100 band Lumia?
On a side note - I find it dissapointing that there's no front facing camera on the lumia. With the skype buyout by microsoft that seems like a really poor decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, MS is still ironing out WP7. It's still in the invention mode, so to speak, and probably in another year WP7 will be finally fully caught up to iOS. We all should begin to see some serious hardware by then.

syrenz said:
(Hopefully I posted this in the right section - not sure)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not right section, this is not related to Q&A about WP7. Thread closed.

[Q] The typical question: Android or iOS.

Hey everyone!
First of all, I am new here. I joined with the vision of getting my question answered, but then i fell over some other threads, and found this forum exciting. So i might stick around for awhile.
*Excuse me if i posted this the wrong place*
Brief:
I currently am in the situation where.. Yes, I am sick of my iPhone.
It's a GREAT phone! It's fast, stylish, and durable (atleast so far!).
But i miss the lack of customization.
Untill last december, i've had android phones. However, back then they were slow. The fastest one I've had, was a Galaxy S II. It was fast back then, but when i use my friend's now, it's so laggy and edgy.
I am really considering getting an Android. But there's a few things holding me back..
iPhone
+ I have an iPhone 5. It's fast.
+ My iPhone 5 is stylish.
+ I have 2 MacBook Pro's, an iMac, Apple TV, iPod and an iPad. So i fear the communication between Android and them.
+ The applications. I personally find Appstore filled with higher-of-quality applications.
+ iCloud. It stores my contacts and stuff. But Android's got an alternative for that tho.
+ iMessage. I love being able to chat from my macbook to iPhones, without confuse. And fast iPhone-to-iPhone chat without the recievant have to download specific software.
+ Reputation. Call me childish, but i just find it "cooler" to have an iPhone..
- Screensize. God it's starting to annoy me. I like having a big badass phone.
- Features. I personally think that the iPhone 5 lacks features.
+/- Jailbreak. Jailbreaking the iPhone gives it alot of awesome features! But having the need to jailbreak it, sucks. Also it makes it impossible to update to the newest immediately. Also yet jailbroken, the system is still very limited. Also it takes a lot of time for it to come out. I haven't had my phone jailbroken for 8 months.
Android
++ CUSTOMIZATION!
++ The freedom to do basically what you want with the phone.
+ Screensize; I find the iPhone 5 screen a tat too small. I miss a bigger size phone, eg the Galaxy S II.
- I fear the speed? Will they be as snappy as i am used to on my iPhone?
- Durability. I remember the old Android phones went slow in just a few weeks due to cache's and stuff. How does that seem now?
+ Features. I think that most Android phones have got some very interesting features. Eg: One Blink Feed, Note 3 S-Pen, S3/4 eye-motion detector.
+ No-jailbreak. Altho Android have the ability to get rooted, it's not necessary (unless you want flashed ROM's). I find that great for my needs, since i love customizing and changing my homescreen-layout / phone functionality on a day-to-day basis. Also iPhone jailbreaks takes a lot of time to come out.
I am very unsure of what to do. It's very hard!
I really like my iPhone, but i miss the lack of customization.
My heart tells me to keep my iPhone, but my brain and inner-geek tells me to go fetch an android.
If it was up to me, i'd have both. But i don't have the money to get a new Android and keep my iPhone. Then i will have to sell my iPhone first.
Could you guys possible give me some aspects and viewpoints on this? I am open for critiques, since i am not coloured of "what's better or worse". I just want personal views.
Also, have anyone gone from iPhone 5 to Android? And did you regret it? (Which i am afraid that i MAYBE will).
And if you advice me to get an Android: Which one?
Thanks in advance!

Welcome at the XDA forums my friend!
From what I think, iOS is child's play in comparison to Android.
Howell iPhones are indeed fast, stylish, etc, the OS won't ever give you control of things.
Apple has it's stuff working together well and so, but the price ofcourse, is to it.
Going through your points, you can make yourself a conclusion, this is just my view on things:
Speed
Android can be as fast as you want it to be, only if you are willing to spend the money on it which you would've spend on an iPhone. Also, making tweaks or changes to your system (You're on XDA anyway) helps greatly in this process.
Keep in mind that Apple has only few devices to optimize their system for, while Android is changed to work on a specific device.
Sync
I have to agree here that Apple has the syncs sorted out better. On Android this is a bit messier, but still working very well when you've got everything up and running. The main reason for this, is that Android is existing more and more out of fragments rather than a fullyfixed system.
Apps
Ofcourse the Appstore is filled with way more quality apps; Apple doesn't allow all Apps to there store. It's part of their policy. Where Google only removes apps from their Store, Apple only allows apps to their store.
Also I kinda like that Google makes their apps available to iOS, which I've barely seen the other way.
Messaging
iMessage is great, but since a few months, Hangouts has the same features plus more! And best of it, it's nearly standard packed (older devices will have to update Talk) with the system.
Durability
Android phones are in my opinion better in getting a new life than iOS phones. Ensurely when you're rooted/unlocked. Phones that have been all forgotten about by their manufacturers (also Apple does this) can still be up to date and smooth thanks to the great devs around. It may take some bravery, but that's completely on to yourself.
The other points not covered by these are more subjective I think.
Like I said, take your own conclusions from this and let me hear what it'll be!

Makes sense
Thanks for your reply!
Your aspects makes sense. Especially with the price thing.
Apple's expensive, and one option-only. (okay, 5c too)
Where Android phones in the same price scale, will top at quad core with double the speeds. RAM too.
What phone would you suggest i get then? In Denmark the variety of sold phones is limited.
You can see them here www . telenor . dk / privat / mobil /
(i cannot post URL's yet)

Android all the way. With the customizations and the community you can't go wrong.

iPhone: good camera, fast, decent battery life
Android: everything else
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app

android - viruses and lots of apps
iOS - nice phone