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XDA-devs on marketplace?

I'm not sure if this has been discussed already, i already did a quick google search and didn't find anything...
But i was just thinking, there are always great apps that i find honestly every week on XDA, mostly because they're just burried under pages, or maybe dont have the same wild popularity that ifart does. But does anyone else think it'd be a great idea if we could maybe somehow take donations from XDA users, and then use this money to register XDA as a developer on the Microsofts upcoming Marketplace store? Maybe it could be turned into something where we the users actually vote which applications should be submitted on a weekly or montly basis. I just think there's so many great apps on XDA that it'd be a great way to get them, and xda-devs as well, some exposure. I'm sure there's lots of people on XDA that have developed great apps whether they be keyboards, or scroll modification tools, or other utilities that may not want to spend 99 bucks and dont think they will actually develop 6 apps.
Chime in guys, i dunno if i'm crazy...but i think it might be a good idea.

I suspect that the first major hurdle would be this:
You are able to download so many great apps from XDA-Devs because they are generally free, and that is why people are allowed to post them here. If they were not free, I am pretty sure they can no longer be advertised on XDA-Devs, correct me if I am wrong.
So if there was a way to recoupe the $99 join fee when all people are doing is offering free apps and taking no profit, them I am sure people would be willing to consider it. I also believe that after you have uploaded six apps, then it is another $99 for every app after, no?
It is a good idea, and deserves some thought, I just can't think of how to make it viable. XDA is popular enough that if there was a way to make money from it, it would have made its own marketplace

New Market in Android?

Hey everyone,
Have you been annoyed lately with the maket? Like how alot of times when downloading apps just hangs? Or like how it takes down apps that are "against" carriers TOC? And takes 30% of the profits from devs for paid apps?
Well we just had this random idea yesterday and it was to make a new market...
This market will be for the community by the community.
Such as the ability to blacklist apps/devs..
And advanced searching...
etc...
Its called AppWire http://appwire.org (as you see the sites not made yet ;D )
We just had this idea yesterday so its still in its infant stage, so we still need all app dev's and web dev's we can get!
If you can't help with developement then feel free to post feature requests!
If you want help with development email me at aakashbpatel [at] gmail.com or look for us in the #appwire channel on freenode.
Thanks Everyone!

I think there's already something similar to this. Forgot its name though. But I do agree Google's policy of removing apps that violate *one* carrier's TOS is ridiculous.

So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.

ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blacklist apps ONLY if people vote to take it off...
Thanks
Aakash

How many Markets do we really need? We already have the official Market, AndAppStore, SlideME, and several other places to purchase apps. The more Markets there are, the more difficult it is to distribute apps. And users simply need to go more places to find the same stuff. Maybe if we make a real effort with Google to get changes implemented everyone will be better off. Just my opinion.

nEx.Software said:
How many Markets do we really need? We already have the official Market, AndAppStore, SlideME, and several other places to purchase apps. The more Markets there are, the more difficult it is to distribute apps. And users simply need to go more places to find the same stuff. Maybe if we make a real effort with Google to get changes implemented everyone will be better off. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you also, and I was looking at slidme's TOC's and it pretty muc said that they own your app if you publish it....and I didn't think it was right that they have the ability to do that.
So I wanted to make a market that everyones opinion matters and one that respects the app developers also.

ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the blacklist would be custom to each person not market wide, like if I didnt want to see apps by "DEV A" ONLY I wouldn't see apps by DEV A, alls "99%" of the time, i think thats pushing it i must not use market often or maybe you are on the lucky side.

Its not that bad of an idea, if anyone has experience with ipod touch or iphone, it could be set up something like cydia. A user customizable market in which apps that the normal market wont allow are easier available and such. Though, the blacklist should be just like on a personal basis or not there at all as it would defeat the purpose of the whole thing for more freedom. I think thats kinda what he was suggesting, if so not to bad.

Great idea, totally support!
More options is better. And right now I don't know any "markets" where I can easily download wifi-tether for example. Plus the original market luck of web-interface and (really) many other features. So, for me an alternative market seems like a good idea. It just doesn't look for me like an easy project

there is another one but that one sucks!
this seems like a cool idea for hardcore root access apps and apps that people dont want googles paws on in general

ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im kinda on the fence on the "blacklist" issue. On one hand, it is the right of the developer to develop applications for this platform, and to release his/her work on the market to be used/previewed/rated/commented/purchased by other users. It is also their right to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, I certainly agree that assaulting the market with 10 different $5 slideshows a day, is verging on MALICIOUS. Seriously, ive never even DOWNLOADED anything put out by Khalid Shaik, yet im sure that none of these slideshows take more than 15 or 20 minutes to produce, i bet not even that long. And $4.99?!?!?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN is a slideshow about Swine Flu worth $5 bucks?! This guy just wants to take advantage of people who havent caught onto him yet. His apps arent worth FREE, much less actual money...you couldnt pay me enough to download anything from him. It IS NOT the right of ANY developer to flood the market with apps of this nature. If you wanna make a slideshow and put it out on the market thats fine...if you worked harder on it than most, then charge a dollar for it...thats fine, too... But dont put out the same damn app 16 times, only with the sounds and images changed, and expect that you have the right to charge $5 bucks apiece again and again and again for the same lame crap.

i like this idea, possible features:
o a root/dev component where devs can post beta releases of apps for root phones to be tested and used by advanced g1 users without it being buried, which tends to happen in the android market.
o a tagging feature for apps in addition to categories for easier searching.
o maybe in addition to apps, this can be a place to download roms and stuff.
o a separate widget category or maybe have a section for categorized apps and a section for categorized widgets.
as far as actual implementation you can do it a couple of ways:
1)an actual market app, like the android market
2)maybe easier to pull off initially, a well organized, mobile ready website
3)i personally think a widget component would be cool, paired with either one of the earlier options. the widget could give people recently added apps, updates on existing apps or in preferred categories/tags, and people can use the widget to navigate to a website or a corresponding app.
i think this would be a good opportunity for a community of experienced users like xda to pool a lot of knowledge and resources together in one place.
anyways, i'm looking forward to what you guys come up with.

I have no need for a new market, per se.
what I'd love to see is the ability for anyone and everyone to host their own apk repository and a more robust package management system on the device
apt, yum, emerge, port, w/e
anyone working on something like that? can I help?

i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market

bmfc187 said:
Im kinda on the fence on the "blacklist" issue. On one hand, it is the right of the developer to develop applications for this platform, and to release his/her work on the market to be used/previewed/rated/commented/purchased by other users. It is also their right to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, I certainly agree that assaulting the market with 10 different $5 slideshows a day, is verging on MALICIOUS. Seriously, ive never even DOWNLOADED anything put out by Khalid Shaik, yet im sure that none of these slideshows take more than 15 or 20 minutes to produce, i bet not even that long. And $4.99?!?!?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN is a slideshow about Swine Flu worth $5 bucks?! This guy just wants to take advantage of people who havent caught onto him yet. His apps arent worth FREE, much less actual money...you couldnt pay me enough to download anything from him. It IS NOT the right of ANY developer to flood the market with apps of this nature. If you wanna make a slideshow and put it out on the market thats fine...if you worked harder on it than most, then charge a dollar for it...thats fine, too... But dont put out the same damn app 16 times, only with the sounds and images changed, and expect that you have the right to charge $5 bucks apiece again and again and again for the same lame crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TruLuvNvrDies said:
i like this idea, possible features:
o a root/dev component where devs can post beta releases of apps for root phones to be tested and used by advanced g1 users without it being buried, which tends to happen in the android market.
o a tagging feature for apps in addition to categories for easier searching.
o maybe in addition to apps, this can be a place to download roms and stuff.
o a separate widget category or maybe have a section for categorized apps and a section for categorized widgets.
as far as actual implementation you can do it a couple of ways:
1)an actual market app, like the android market
2)maybe easier to pull off initially, a well organized, mobile ready website
3)i personally think a widget component would be cool, paired with either one of the earlier options. the widget could give people recently added apps, updates on existing apps or in preferred categories/tags, and people can use the widget to navigate to a website or a corresponding app.
i think this would be a good opportunity for a community of experienced users like xda to pool a lot of knowledge and resources together in one place.
anyways, i'm looking forward to what you guys come up with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tubaking182 said:
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you guys.

i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1,500 bucks? I don't know why someone like these sound boards ? It's really suck. 1 buck for some sounds which I can get free from internet.

I agree. I would like to see Cydia ported to G1. I have been working on getting Apt running. The part I am not sure of is building a UI for it. This was easier on the iPhone because the apps like cydia were native and not in a vm like on Android.

Thanks for all the support guys....now all we need are some more developers...anyone wanna help us?

possibly available as web developer
I'm not sure where you need more help, phone vs. web development. I may be able to help out in either case though. you can contact me at [my.xda-devs.username]@gmail.com on google talk or by email.
As far as features/requests:
This should be 100% for non paid applications, IMO. I agree with other posters that it only hurts application distribution by adding a new paid app store. Especially because I think t-mobile's 30% is quite reasonable as a distribution cost.
Instead, this app should focus on delivering the type of software that people develop here on xda-devs.
I don't think you need to black list any developers. By only offering free applications through this market, you automatically get rid of most of that spam, and instead promote more sharing. Developers already have a good place to spam crappy applications for money. The purpose here should be for homebrew/expirimental applications and to promote more community hacking.
Keeping this application open source would definitely help with the "for the community by the community" mantra.
Just my two cents..
Best Regards,
Nick

I totally agree with the idea. But I think it would be difficult to implement paid apps because they are updated through the market.

SlingPlayer Mobile now available for Android

One of the last items that I missed from the conversion from WM was a slingmedia player.
It was released today (tonight actually).
Of course, I have the older slingplayer (AV model) which is not 100% supported, but it is good enough until my new Solo arrives.
Even using an older not quite supported slingbox, the player is much much easier to use than the WM ever was.
SlingPlayer For Android

Awesome
I have used Slingplayer mobile on WM and iPhone and the Android flavor is by far the best. The integration that they have built in to allow easy use of all of the functionality you would have right in your own living room. Good Work Sling!

The site says sling classic not officially supported but may work. Is this app still have the 24hr return policy as the rest of the app store. I don't want to waste $30.
Sent from Droid Incredible using TapaTalk

I downloaded it last night to test it with my Slingbox AV (older "unsupported" model) on my rooted Incredible. It works, for anyone who was wondering. Over EvDO rA, the picture was good, but the audio was kind of choppy. Some people have guessed that the buffering is handled differently in the new version, which might explain the audio issue. One thing that's completely different in the Android version (I came from WM too) is that there is no way to adjust the streaming settings (or even view the statistics for that matter). I'm going to dig into the config files a little and see if anything can be manually tweaked.
So, for anyone who's wondering... the Android version of SlingPlayer WILL work with a Slingbox AV, but it's not necessarily great.

I am using the slingbox AV myself until the Solo shows up. I got pretty good results last night on EVDO rev/A. After changing channels it would settle down pretty quickly.
On WiFi it work much better of course...
The method of changing and selecting channels is much easier than the WM verison. Even accessing some of the more obscure buttons is easy with this interface.
some of the features don't work with the older slingbox, but I didn't find anything that I had to have that I could not do with it.

I bought it. It is ok but not worth the $30 so I uninstalled. I better get my refund.

Man, figures is would be now that I'm w/o cable. I'm moving in a week.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

Download Sling Mobile from xxxx
I have Slingbox Av which seems to work pretty good with this mobile App. I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that could save them lots of money. I subscribe to a website called xxxx. They have lots of paid apps that you can download right to your phone. Anyway for $10 a year you can download as many paid apps as you want. They just updated there listing last night and Slingplayer is available to download. Its alot cheaper to get it from xxxx and you get lots of other paid apps to go along with it.

tsailor1 said:
I have Slingbox Av which seems to work pretty good with this mobile App. I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that could save them lots of money. I subscribe to a website called xxxx. They have lots of paid apps that you can download right to your phone. Anyway for $10 a year you can download as many paid apps as you want. They just updated there listing last night and Slingplayer is available to download. Its alot cheaper to get it from xxxx and you get lots of other paid apps to go along with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is the same a stealing since they are not legal copies of the apps and the original authors are not paid for their work, time and expense of publishing and development.

Probably true about that website so then just go torrent it for free if you don't care about paying for it. The news had a story about movie sites like that which are run by organized crime and the movie studios are mad. Personally I think sling is doing it to themselves by charging too much and also making winmo converts pay again for the same app, along with dropping support for the sling classic customers. They are getting greedy and people are revolting.
Sent from Droid Incredible using TapaTalk

wpbear said:
Personally I think sling is doing it to themselves by charging too much and also making winmo converts pay again for the same app, along with dropping support for the sling classic customers. They are getting greedy and people are revolting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Greedy?
I suppose they have developers that work for free on a project that has taken more than a year to complete. Do you work for free? I don't.
The droid version of the player is significantly better than the WinMo version ever was and much more usable. Many of the operations work just fine with Slingbox AV even though it is not fully supported.
As for dropping support for older technologies, gee time does move on. It is not that uncommon that new technologies come along that no longer support older hardware. It happens.. And it is not like they have not been talking about new technologies not supporting the older boxes now for years.
They do provide an upgrade discount for registered users of the older boxes to get newer ones. If they were greedy they would not offer that.
If their users think the price is too high, they won't buy. If sales are slow Slingmedia will do what most companies do when products are not moving.
Promoting theft is not cool, whether using a torrent or a hack site. Saying it is okay because the a product is overpriced is not an excuse.

Should I go sit in time out now for voicing my opinion of a greedy company.
What if MS made you buy office 2010 because you have win7 but Vista users could still use office 2007? I bought a license and am not buying another.
Sent from Droid Incredible using TapaTalk

All opinions aside, XDA does not allow discussion of warez on it's boards.
I have removed the name of the offending site from the above post and quote.
@tsailor1 please take time to read the forum rules.
Dave

[Q] why develop paid games and apps for android?

ok, first of all I'd like to state that I am not in fact trolling. This is a serious question from one dev to another. I have been devving on android for almost 2 years now and have been devving on wp7 for around 3 months. Studies have shown that despite the clear difference in market share that people who are developing the same app for each OS are making quite a bit more for wp7 and even more for ios of course due to app pirating. I understand why all these rooting and rom apps and over locking apps are made but why would anyone spend all the time to develop a game when the security is so minimal that any app could be either just stolen or given a crack without issue. Its sad really to see developers hard work go unrewarded but app pirating is way too easy. You can go download a folder with 10000 apks of all these different games on a torrent site in about a minute and honestly its sad. I really don't see how android devs survive without ad support.

z33dev33l said:
ok, first of all I'd like to state that I am not in fact trolling. This is a serious question from one dev to another. I have been devving on android for almost 2 years now and have been devving on wp7 for around 3 months. Studies have shown that despite the clear difference in market share that people who are developing the same app for each OS are making quite a bit more for wp7 and even more for ios of course due to app pirating. I understand why all these rooting and rom apps and over locking apps are made but why would anyone spend all the time to develop a game when the security is so minimal that any app could be either just stolen or given a crack without issue. Its sad really to see developers hard work go unrewarded but app pirating is way too easy. You can go download a folder with 10000 apks of all these different games on a torrent site in about a minute and honestly its sad. I really don't see how android devs survive without ad support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay

jags_the1 said:
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are absolutely right my friend.even though I know where I can find those pirated stuff I bought talking tom, fruit ninja, file downloader plus from the market.respect you in this aspect that people pay

jags_the1 said:
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well I'm on wp7 I i understand paying for apps. I've bought 13 Xbox live titles. Robo defense though has been around since my g1 was still a big device, pirating android apps didn't really start til after the Verizon droid came out and android went mainstream, sure it was there but it wasn't so easy. My stepmom could not navigate Facebook on her computer but she knows how to pirate apps, its made too easy. When I paid 9.99 for zenonia the day it came out and my friend pirated it for free 3 days I i was pretty peeved. These things are just far too easy on android and right now I'm considering if it's worth porting my new RPG over to android or not...

Are you trying to say that you cant pirate wp7 apps? Or that wp7 users have better morals than us droids?

Every platform has piracy. Apologies if it's not right to discuss it here, but jailbreak WP7 and you're free to sideload XNA apps at no cost. Not ethically right, but possible. Exploits will always be found.
It has to do with the user base. As a mass market platform, the vast majority of Android users don't know or care about sideloading applications. You overestimate the lengths people will go to to save one or two dollars. If the right app is available for one click downloading, the convenience outweighs digging around for the right apk file. Same reason why iTunes was so successful in combating music piracy. Make piracy the less appealing option.

When I was a young poor student I was going to the torrent sites for all the software i use. Today i use linux at home( i'd buy a legal os otherwise) and buy all my apps from the market.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App

aFo3262 said:
Every platform has piracy. Apologies if it's not right to discuss it here, but jailbreak WP7 and you're free to sideload XNA apps at no cost. Not ethically right, but possible. Exploits will always be found.
It has to do with the user base. As a mass market platform, the vast majority of Android users don't know or care about sideloading applications. You overestimate the lengths people will go to to save one or two dollars. If the right app is available for one click downloading, the convenience outweighs digging around for the right apk file. Same reason why iTunes was so successful in combating music piracy. Make piracy the less appealing option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, why bother going to the effort of hunting around the net, finding an old version of the apk, risking warez sites throwing malware etc at you, just to save $1.99
Yes there is piracy of WP7 apps too, and with such a small market share, there's the potential for it to hit developers' incomes far greater. So perhaps the question should be "Why develope for WP7 when piracy can have a greater impact?"
Think about it, if you've got a large enough market share that 10% piracy still leaves you with a large income from legitimate sales, then although it's a pain, it's still making you lots of money, where as if your sales are low due to the few users who own the device you're developing for, you need that 10% to make a reasonable amount as you can't have the same number of sales as the more popular operating systems.
If I sell $100,000 worth of bananas and it turns out $10,000 was actually stolen, then that still leaves $90,000 in my pocket.
But if I sell only $1000 worth of bananas and $100 were actually stolen, then I've only got $900 in my pocket.

I guess because the majority of users will stay pay for a game or app that they want.
It's the same with PC software and games...many people crack and download them for free, but the majority will still pay for them.

You have to jailbreak iOS and WP7 to sideload apps. That means that >90% of iOS/WP7 users will have to pay.
You can sideload apps on Android straight out of the box without rooting, which makes piracy just as easy as on desktop operating systems.

rogier666 said:
You have to jailbreak iOS and WP7 to sideload apps. That means that >90% of iOS/WP7 users will have to pay.
You can sideload apps on Android straight out of the box without rooting, which makes piracy just as easy as on desktop operating systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yet people are still making computer programs.
To some developers the trade off is worth it even when you factor in piracy. Look at how many indie games don't have drm making an app is pretty much the same. There are enough people who will buy the app to make a living off of
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

ok, that is very interesting

dardragon said:
And yet people are still making computer programs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course.
Piracy is just a bit of background noise. Most pirates wouldn't have bought the app anyway.

What I get from the people around me, is that if the app is good enough or do fit their needs, they're willing to pay for it.
I like to see it this way:
When I get hungry I go to a vending machine a buy let say a Mars or something for 1 euro.
When I'm bored and I have to wait for a few minutes, I look on the android market and buy a funny game for about that same amount of money.
I hope that other users see it the same way. The amount that an app or game will cost is so small, that most probably will spend more in the weekend on a beer.

An app is not a Mars bar.
Candy bars are not free. If you want a Nuts or a Bounty instead of a Mars you'll still have to pay.
For every paid app there's a free alternative. Usually there are many free alternatives, and the market has a built-in feature to find the free beer.
The Android Market has a "related apps" link. What other markets force their merchants to provide free advertising for their competitors in their very own market stall?

Tricky-Design said:
I hope that other users see it the same way. The amount that an app or game will cost is so small, that most probably will spend more in the weekend on a beer.
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Spot on.
Ive paid for damn near every app on my phone. I appreciate the work and am more than willing to contribute. And still, all in all, ive spent maybe 15bucks total in the past 4months. Seriously, apps are one of the more affordable ( and not to mention hella convenient) luxuries in this day and age(and in this economy).
Try and go see a movie these days? How much?
Go buy a board game at wal- mart? How much?
Go to the arcade? (if you can find one anymore) how much?
Go buy a book at books a million? How much?

xaccers said:
Exactly, why bother going to the effort of hunting around the net, finding an old version of the apk, risking warez sites throwing malware etc at you, just to save $1.99
Yes there is piracy of WP7 apps too, and with such a small market share, there's the potential for it to hit developers' incomes far greater. So perhaps the question should be "Why develope for WP7 when piracy can have a greater impact?"
Think about it, if you've got a large enough market share that 10% piracy still leaves you with a large income from legitimate sales, then although it's a pain, it's still making you lots of money, where as if your sales are low due to the few users who own the device you're developing for, you need that 10% to make a reasonable amount as you can't have the same number of sales as the more popular operating systems.
If I sell $100,000 worth of bananas and it turns out $10,000 was actually stolen, then that still leaves $90,000 in my pocket.
But if I sell only $1000 worth of bananas and $100 were actually stolen, then I've only got $900 in my pocket.
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you should really look at the general profit margins from OS to OS, even your average developer makes more on wp7 than android because as someone already stated, there's a free version of pretty much everything on android and what's not can be pirated. Then there's the fragmentation for every app that was made for 2.1 plus. Sure, you CAN pirate on wp7, its a long, complex process that doesn't work fully on Xbl games and actually requires some knowledge, its not androids out-of-box pirating or iOSes one click jailbreak with everything done for you. Its the only OS that adds some level of complexity to doing such things and that little bit is more than enough for your average user.

Next OS ; WHY CANT I MAKE AS MUCH ON WP7 APPS random_os001 makes more WAHHHH
(YEAR OR TWO LATER~!) RANDOM_os002 WAS RELEASED (os001 sorry ur gonna lose money now unless u try to stick with the pack.)

Extremely disappointed with the android community

I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .

Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.

Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
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I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.

Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..

The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA

I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow

I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.

jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
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The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.

chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
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Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?

Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.

Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L

Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.

Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app

rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
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In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)

That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.

jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
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There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.

Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.

awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!

I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium