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Pulled from Engadget site
In case you missed it, this weekend Staples announced that it was no longer offering the 10.1-inch Viewsonic G Tablet because of a "manufacturing defect." Well, as it turns out, Viewsonic is claiming there's really no hardware defect at all -- instead, the manufacturer of the Android 2.2, Tegra 2-powered tablet is reporting that there's really a "user experience issue." Nope, that doesn't sound much better, but according to Viewsonic's VP of Marketing Adam Hanin, the G Tablet saw a fair number of returns because of its sluggish software experience, which was caused by the preloaded Tap and Tap Android layer. A number of issues were also caused by the lack of Flash, which Adobe hasn't yet certified for Tegra 2 (we hear that's finally coming at the end of January). "We believe it is the user experience that caused all the returns, and we are taking important steps forward with the G Tablet," Hanin told us.
So, what are those steps exactly? Viewsonic will be releasing an over-the-air software update before the end of the week and will also provide links for users to manually download and install a beta version of Flash on its support page. Naturally, we asked Hanin why the G Tablet was shipped in this half-finished state at all -- he told us that while Android and Tegra are great platforms, Google's lack of support for larger devices means that companies like Viewsonic have to "go out and put together their own software and app stores." We're not sure that's a great answer -- in fact, it sort of sounds like Viewsonic is trying to blame Google, Adobe, and NVIDIA for its own half-finished and laggy software, when it released the tablet on its accord own to retailers. Either way, we've now seen more than enough terrible "user experience" issues on the early crop of Android tablets
Wheres the apology?
Anyone else see engaget as fairly biased against the gtablet?
Engadget is biased to anything not sold by Apple. It's been like that for a while. Despite this, they're still the ones to beat as a tech blog so I just ignore the snarky condescending tone they use while reviewing any and all products that compete with Apple's and enjoy the funny commentary by writers and reader alike, as well as appreciate (for the most part) the information they share and news they break.
Endgadget(applefanboysrus.com) are A-Holes anyway, they are mad that Apple products can't pull away from Android, poor steve jobs can't catch a break, make a phone, android makes it better, make a tablet, android will own that market too.
Skyydragon said:
Endgadget(applefanboysrus.com) are A-Holes anyway, they are mad that Apple products can't pull away from Android, poor steve jobs can't catch a break, make a phone, android makes it better, make a tablet, android will own that market too.
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Ars Technica is pretty much this way now as well, might as well change their name to Apple Centrica
Viewsonic gambled on the early release of the g tablet and lost. The software
wasn't ready. I got to blame the QA group that works for Viewsonic. They
should know people expect it to work out of box. Slow response to touches,
tap n tap ... looked nice but needed to be quicker. The lack of adobe flash
and market place also was a let down. QA should have just said, " NO ". An
made them fix the tap n tap interface and the other issues before releasing
the g tablet.
The biggest issue is the display screen for the device. They need to release
a better display with better viewing angles. If you have to call the people
that make the displays for Apples iPad .. Having the hardware of the
Viewsonic g tablet with the iPad display would ROCK ..
Time to make some donuts ...
GenBlood said:
Viewsonic gambled on the early release of the g tablet and lost. The software
wasn't ready. I got to blame the QA group that works for Viewsonic. They
should know people expect it to work out of box. Slow response to touches,
tap n tap ... looked nice but needed to be quicker. The lack of adobe flash
and market place also was a let down. QA should have just said, " NO ". An
made them fix the tap n tap interface and the other issues before releasing
the g tablet.
The biggest issue is the display screen for the device. They need to release
a better display with better viewing angles. If you have to call the people
that make the displays for Apples iPad .. Having the hardware of the
Viewsonic g tablet with the iPad display would ROCK ..
Time to make some donuts ...
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Click to collapse
Screen is bad, but biggest issue by far is the alpha quality UI OOB... just doesn't fly for most consumers.
I think that flash & market support are overrated for most consumers as well. Having flash as a later update is fine as it'll eventually be released by Adobe for Tegra 2, but market? Just too many alternatives, and so far I could've done with no market at all as everything that I've installed so far is available directly from the dev as well as the market...
cutterjohn said:
Screen is bad, but biggest issue by far is the alpha quality UI OOB... just doesn't fly for most consumers.
I think that flash & market support are overrated for most consumers as well. Having flash as a later update is fine as it'll eventually be released by Adobe for Tegra 2, but market? Just too many alternatives, and so far I could've done with no market at all as everything that I've installed so far is available directly from the dev as well as the market...
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Gotta agree here. First thing you notice when you pull this thing out of the box is the force close issues, the clock timezone wont stay, its unresponsive and slow. In a world where people demand instant gratification, no one wants to wait for the next update or "fix" becuase it shouldnt need to be fixed in the first place. If I didnt know any better and took my G tab out of the box, I'd be running back to Sears to return it.
Acturbo said:
Gotta agree here. First thing you notice when you pull this thing out of the box is the force close issues, the clock timezone wont stay, its unresponsive and slow. In a world where people demand instant gratification, no one wants to wait for the next update or "fix" becuase it shouldnt need to be fixed in the first place. If I didnt know any better and took my G tab out of the box, I'd be running back to Sears to return it.
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You mean like having to hold your phone a particular way or you wouldn't have any signal?
No people are very patient as long as they are informed about what is happening.
My question is why should Staples apologize? I think everyone here has to admit that out of the box this device had a lot of issues. Your average consumer probably wouldn't even call Viewsonic tech support, but instead would just take it back to the store. I'd imagine the return rate was pretty horrific, so why in the world would Staples want to apologize for pulling an item that I'm sure to the non-technical appears to have hardware issues?
cshehan said:
My question is why should Staples apologize? I think everyone here has to admit that out of the box this device had a lot of issues. Your average consumer probably wouldn't even call Viewsonic tech support, but instead would just take it back to the store. I'd imagine the return rate was pretty horrific, so why in the world would Staples want to apologize for pulling an item that I'm sure to the non-technical appears to have hardware issues?
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I'll be the first to admit the Gtab is far from perfect, but calling it a hardware defect is blatantly false.
To a non-technical person if you bought a tablet opened it up and it did say an update and then boot-looped and the only solution was to send it to Viewsonic for repair, that would make them think it was a hardware problem.
Listed 4 choices in the poll, if you vote Other... please post a reply with what you think would make an android/iOS/blackberry user convert to wp7.
i guess less microsoft would be the right answer. what a pitty that this really powerfull devices can't even play most avi videos just because they are divx or xvid. mkv can't be played to. mobile phones are focussed on multimedia, but that's not a good deal. who wants to use or convert almost everything to wmv? nobody!
and zune is a pretty nice software buit people don't want to be forced to use it. That's what many complain abot iphone and itunes, and is most probably the reason they pick up android.
Only apple is able to do stupid things like that because they aim a very special group of consumers, who doesn't care what the devices can do. they just need to have the newest fancy apple product.
What a shame, because on the other side i think winphone7 is really the most modern and sophisticated OS at the moment.
Definitely not the first 3 choices.
I voted "other" thinking about UI workflow and different concept of this.
Devices and Marketing are worse than other platforms.
Some features are better but there is alot missing too.
Other: The Apple/Google Brand name. People have a tendency to buy any crap from Apple or Google these days as long as its not Microsoft.
But yeah in the long run thru good word of mouth WP7 will eventually win
Interesting answers...
I associate microsoft and windows with good software. Just look at Office and tell me it's not the ****. On the other hand, Apple does make very "pretty" software. It makes you feel special when you use it because it animates and looks a certain way.
Google has always been the odd one, it has horrible UI and their chrome browser is ugly as well.
I agree with everyone else to an extent, but I actually think that the biggest thing is that it is lacking in features. You can't send video clips via text message, you can't have custom alert sounds and you can't even have custom ring tones (without hacking it). I think that missing features such as these is a major turn off for people looking for a new phone.
Windows Phone 7 needs a constant and unending series of free commercials losely disguised as the evening news. Just in day to day contact it seems like the majority of people don't really "hate" MSFT, but they love to get caught up in the hype provided by the masters of buzz, Apple and the likes. MSFT should just drop some checks in the pockets of these pseudo-reporters we know as bloggers and buy their buzz.
We all know that the masses do not really care about the number of cores, an extra 0.1 inch of screen size, or an extra megapixel of camera resolution (if they did the iPhone would not be eatng other manufacturer's lunch). They want to walk into the room and when they take out their phone they want someone to say "is that the latest iPhone?"
This is not a slight at iPhone users, I still have my 3GS, but today people's phones are like their car or wardrobe. It's sometime a fashion accessory.
Sorry to ramble. I know I'm not saying anything that those on this forum haven't already observed.
Nobody975 said:
I agree with everyone else to an extent, but I actually think that the biggest thing is that it is lacking in features. You can't send video clips via text message, you can't have custom alert sounds and you can't even have custom ring tones (without hacking it). I think that missing features such as these is a major turn off for people looking for a new phone.
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Video to text, and custom ring tones added to mango
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express
mikroland said:
Video to text, and custom ring tones added to mango
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express
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I Actually just upgraded to mango and I have found many nice upgrades, but I was unable to attach a video to a text. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong! lol I'm still disappointed though that it is such a tedious process to use a custom ringtone... I should be able to just pick a song under Zune, hiold it for a sec. and choose an option "Set as ringtone"...But, that is not how easy it is...Not too much of a problem for me, but I have a few friends who are bothered by it.
...I voted for "better marketing". Having had GSM devices since the beginning and having been a "WM Power User" for a couple of years, flashing and tweaking everything I was able to lay hands on, I can say that WP7, even in the actual NoDo-Version is the most awesome OS I ever used. Before settling for WP7, I also tried Android on an HTC HD2 and I found it had basically the same problems as WM6.5 WP7 is working "out of the box" and I don't need to spend hours flashing and tweaking to make in run smoothly. There are of course some features which are still missing, but most of them will be included in Mango. And Mango will not be the end of the line.....
WP7 needs a better and more agressive marketing. Apple managed to establish "iPhone" as synonym for "smartphone" and ironically with hardware which has never been top technology. Even with the millions of Apple and Android devices in the market, this only scratches the surface of the potential and future markets of smartphones which goes into billions. The WP7 alliance of Microsoft, the makers, the providers and the trade have to find an efficient way to communicate the advantages of the WP7 philosophy (don't let your phone take over your life) to the non technic affine public, which actually are the hughe majority of the potential users.....
It actually needs all of these. In fact, it's an easy textbook case in terms of theory, here's what they need:
1. Meaningful effective positioning and branding. The "Really?" ads won't cut it. The "In and Out" message is totally missing the point, nobody understands what it's about. Using the "Windows Phone" name is totally stupid.
2. Variety of cool and sexy hardware (not the 4.7" Eternity stuff, and not just one or two decent phones, with all the buzzwords in place such as megapixels, gigabytes, super AMOLED plus ultra, what not), shelf presence everywhere (countries, operators), and of course training/stimulating floor staff.
3. Completed concept of hubs/integration, for third party apps/services to really be an integral part of the OS, or "immersive" as MS call it.
4. Seamless backup/device-to-device migration, carrying over settings, app data etc. This isn't crucial right now, but will be a must have in a year or so, and could be a differentiating factor over Android, although it's more important for markets where handsets aren't subsidized. In the US this can wait. However, a migration path from Android/iOS would be useful even there.
5. Integration with "big" Windows, Windows on tablets which would work well with WP7, together with repositioned/rebranded/streamlined Live services which should be a joy to use as opposed to current PITA state.
6. Introducing lots of things for media to talk about over the next year or two.
7. Profit
Unfortunately, 1. is out of the question, not gonna happen. Hardware depends on manufacturers (Nokia alone won't do it). Most other things, even if understood at Microsoft, will take a year at least. So don't expect anything radically exciting happening this year.
Numbers.
It's a numbers game - more devices = more users.
Also have it so that my WP7 phone will mount as a hard drive without Zune software. So dumb that it doesn't. All of my Androids do that!
They are all doing news items about "ipad killers" and list the usual suspects, (Xoom, HP Touchpad, Galaxy Tab), but none of them mention the best selling non-iOS tablet....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15087056
So my questions to them (and Asus)
Why should I believe anything techy they tell me, if thjey don't know who the REAL contenders are, rather than simply looking towards to best known contenders.
And to Asus, Why aren't you boasting about your sales figures? We know you have been SELLING 600k+ units every month since March, and can easilly embarrass Samsung, Motorola with more impressive sales figures, so why hold back? (i'm guessing you can't afford to upset either of these companies, as AsusTek has strong dealings with them).
CrazyPeter said:
They are all doing news items about "ipad killers" and list the usual suspects, (Xoom, HP Touchpad, Galaxy Tab), but none of them mention the best selling non-iOS tablet....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15087056
So my questions to them (and Asus)
Why should I believe anything techy they tell me, if thjey don't know who the REAL contenders are, rather than simply looking towards to best known contenders.
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Wait, you mean to actually pay attention to the main stream media.
That's your first mistake.
This bugs the crap out of me as well. The media (both mainstream and tech) keeps saying that there's no "successful" tablet other than the iPad, when I'm sure Asus is perfectly happy selling 1-2 million units (if not more) of the Transformer. And really, by harping on the iPad as the "only successful" tablet, the media contributes to a self-fulfilling prophecy--how many people want to buy an unsuccessful product?
It's a bit like how election results can't be reported until after polls have closed. People change their votes based on who's winning...
It's just propaganda. They want the majority of the masses to believe that the iPad is the number one contender. The consumer makes the choice on whether to believe it or not based on what knowledge he or she has on the tablet market. If you've done your homework and researched it then you would know that the Apple has mostly marketing backing it's iPad. The real tech savvy person knows the difference and can make a reasonable choice.
Leave it to mainstream media to cloud your mind of the real possibilities. I never have liked Apple despite how thin they can make there products. pfttt...
<petergriffin> You know what grinds my gears? </petergriffin>
Every time someone new sees my Transformer, the FIRST words out of their mouth are "oh, is that an iPad?"
EVERY time.
I guess it just shows how ridiculously successful Apple's marketing department is.
nightwulf said:
<petergriffin> You know what grinds my gears? </petergriffin>
Every time someone new sees my Transformer, the FIRST words out of their mouth are "oh, is that an iPad?"
EVERY time.
I guess it just shows how ridiculously successful Apple's marketing department is.
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I think the problem is, Apple have virtually unlimited money to push their products, and the more they spend pushing them, the more they sell and they then have even more money.
It's a upward spiral, where Apple and Microsoft have dominance, they can dominate even more. Microsoft is the worst, their money comes from Windows, but they use it to break new sectors with inferior products (Xbox, Windows Phone 7 etc).
i agree when family members see me with my Transformer they say oh you got a ipad too, i let them play with it and at first they are like how did you get your ipad to do this...then i get to tell them that it isnt a ipad, which they should have known by the look of it but i never said my family is smart they think the ipad is the only tablet on the market....but long story short i already converted two my family members to transformers from ipads due to widgets alone.
I was talking to an iPad2 owner yesterday at Changi airport, he saw me using my Transformer, and then asked me what it was, and if it was less than £1000!!!! On the TV they had just shown another Android tablet with a keyboard (Lenovo I believe).
I said it was less than an iPad2 including the keyboard dock, and it had 18 hours of battery life, a proper keyboard and no iTunes lock-in.
He told me the iPad was his first Apple purchase, and could not believe how he was already locked into everything Apple and nothing was actually his.
I got the impression he was going to sell it and get a Transformer when he got back.
First to the market gets the name. How many people had a portable cassette player that was always referred to as a "Walkman".
Oh crap, I just showed my age.
^ oh so true!! apple is a huge media whore but hey, that tactic sure works wonders on herding all the sheep.
crollison said:
First to the market gets the name. How many people had a portable cassette player that was always referred to as a "Walkman".
Oh crap, I just showed my age.
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What's a cassette?
LOL... jusk kidding.
But that's true... like Kleenex.
Everyone as "is that an iPad?", I hate that. But the have the mindshare when it comes to name recognition. I mean come one iPad (like iANYTHING) is fairly easy to remember (especially if you already familiar wit iPads and iMacs). Asus Eee Pad Transformer just doesn't roll off the tongue as easy.
The Galaxy Tab 10.1 has some mindshare due to the sucess of the Galaxy S line. More importantly it get alot of comparison to the iPad because it so thin (thinner than the iPad even). Besides it is a nice device with a sexy design.
Yes the Transformer deserves more recognition but it is popular with those that do research and are more tech savvy. It is is talked about a bit on the tech sites.
---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------
uploder said:
^ oh so true!! apple is a huge media whore but hey, that tactic sure works wonders on herding all the sheep.
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Yes, all the iSheep.
Here is another "expert"...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ablet-mauler/2011/09/29/gIQAghKl7K_story.html
"there is still no real competitor to the iPad 2,” Ticonderoga analyst Brian White said in a note to clients today."
LOL, it's a shame you can't physically shake these idiots and wake them up. They are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. There won't be anything that is a real competitor to the iPad2 until they wake up and realize there already are some.
Don't think apple is above paying for their 'news'.
I believe the Transformer gets pushed aside for two reasons:
No affiliation with any wireless network providers (as the Xoom and Tab do with companies like Verizon)
Like it or not, wireless broadband is the way of the future. With the exception of Apple none of the hardware manufacturers have the marketting budget to push their devices. Thus, the tablets that "debut" on Verizon/AT&T/whathaveyou are pushed into public visibility. Mainstream media exists to tell the public what they already know or what they want to hear, and there's great advertising revenue in these devices.
It's actually quite impressive that Transformer has generated as much sales as it has. It's honestly a testament to how massive the "techie" community has gotten, as that's the demographic.
Raw spec comparisons always place the Xoom and Tab ahead of the Transformer
Somehow when any reviewer (Engadget, Gizmodo, etc) compares the devices, the Transformer gets left at the bottom. I'm not really sure why that is, as from a usability standpoint, the Transformer kicks the crap out of all competitors. Generally these reviewers focus on ONE point of interest and hold that as the determining factor. The screen is frequently this pivot point. Apparently the Transformer's screen is VASTLY inferior to that of the Galaxy Tab or Xoom, but I don't see it. I've gone to the Verizon store with my TF and compared them all....they all look the same, and neither of the other two match the capability and usefulness of my tablet.
I'm not particularly stressed. There's a huge community behind this device, meaning there will always be neat things to play with. Since Asus was so profitable with these, they'll continue supporting it and pumping out new iterations (which is proven by the 4-core Kal-El iteration announced almost immediately after the TF shipped.)
It's propaganda. That's all it is, plain and simple. Look at the meaning of the word 'Propaganda' and then relate it to what your seeing. It fits like a key.
Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda is often biased, with facts selectively presented (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political, or other type of agenda.
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This is exactly what your witnessing and you will continue to see more and more 'Mainstream Media' advertise this claim.
Just ignore it. It's bull****. You! The tech savvy person knows the difference and that's all that matters.
Well, by that definition, marketing and advertising is propoganda. Of course these companies want to convince you to buy their product. That's why they built the product.
Your consternation is probably over the partial views of the media, which isn't news (pardon the pun), but definitely disconcerting. All I can say is get your information from as many sources and perspectives as you can, and always question the driving force behind every source.
AcIdC0R3 said:
It's propaganda. That's all it is, plain and simple. Look at the meaning of the word 'Propaganda' and then relate it to what your seeing. It fits like a key.
This is exactly what your witnessing and you will continue to see more and more 'Mainstream Media' advertise this claim.
Just ignore it. It's bull****. You! The tech savvy person knows the difference and that's all that matters.
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Whilst I can understand crap ****e like Engadget, Gizmodo, Slashgear and the like who need advertising revenue from the highest bidder (i.e. Apple) to survive, the BBC link I originally posted is funded by UK licence fee payers and SUPPOSED to be informed, impartial and unbiased, but unfortunately they are some of the biggest Apple fanboys around, with almost every week, they Apple loving writers are spewing out Apple psalms like it's the new religion, their Focus magazine and BBC Click programs are more of the same.
I posted about this recently on another thread:
rickatnight11 said:
These arguments fall upon the deaf ears of fanboys. It goes both ways. There are plenty of Android die-hards (myself included) who don't want to hear any arguments against the ecosystem they love.
The only rational arguments come from a usability or ideological standpoint. Here are two examples:
Ideological - I don't believe a manufacturer should have any control over what software I put on or what I do with my device. My device is a tool, which should conform to my needs, not the other way around.
Usability - I only use this device for these three tasks, and since the alternative does not have support/apps for these particular tasks I prefer them to the competition.
If you are rationally choosing your ecosystem, the only logical arguments fall under these two categories. Otherwise you're simply buying into a brand, and thus you can't make any logical arguments.
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Because the mainstream media and the "tech writers" consist of morons. It's hard not to laugh when you're reading this drivel, like the eighteen articles I've read comparing the Kindle Fire to the iPad and hypothesizing whether it will be an iPad Killer. They're not even comparable, they're not even in the same market. I'm just in shock at how any sane rational person can compare a 7-inch tablet to a 10.X inch tablet at completely different price points and with completely different ideas (Fire is sold at a loss, not a profit because its intended to sell Amazon services hard to make up for the $25.00 loss per unit).
So when you see people comparing the Kindle Fire to the iPad and calling RIM's Playbook a failed "iPad killer" (when it hasn't even tried to kill the iPad), you begin to denounce the bull**** they call a story. They like to generate controversy by using buzzwords like "iPad killer". The mainstream media isn't out to do any fair coverage, it's out to throw in buzzwords and junk to generate hype and readership. Can you expect any fair coverage from that kind of machine? Not in the slightest.
rickatnight11 said:
I believe the Transformer gets pushed aside for two reasons:
No affiliation with any wireless network providers (as the Xoom and Tab do with companies like Verizon)
Like it or not, wireless broadband is the way of the future. With the exception of Apple none of the hardware manufacturers have the marketting budget to push their devices. Thus, the tablets that "debut" on Verizon/AT&T/whathaveyou are pushed into public visibility. Mainstream media exists to tell the public what they already know or what they want to hear, and there's great advertising revenue in these devices.
It's actually quite impressive that Transformer has generated as much sales as it has. It's honestly a testament to how massive the "techie" community has gotten, as that's the demographic.
Raw spec comparisons always place the Xoom and Tab ahead of the Transformer
Somehow when any reviewer (Engadget, Gizmodo, etc) compares the devices, the Transformer gets left at the bottom. I'm not really sure why that is, as from a usability standpoint, the Transformer kicks the crap out of all competitors. Generally these reviewers focus on ONE point of interest and hold that as the determining factor. The screen is frequently this pivot point. Apparently the Transformer's screen is VASTLY inferior to that of the Galaxy Tab or Xoom, but I don't see it. I've gone to the Verizon store with my TF and compared them all....they all look the same, and neither of the other two match the capability and usefulness of my tablet.
I'm not particularly stressed. There's a huge community behind this device, meaning there will always be neat things to play with. Since Asus was so profitable with these, they'll continue supporting it and pumping out new iterations (which is proven by the 4-core Kal-El iteration announced almost immediately after the TF shipped.)
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I only take issue with one thing: The Xoom's screen sucks. Otherwise I agree with you for the most part.
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
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And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.
i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops
z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
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Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!
AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.
1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
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I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.
Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...
For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.
There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).
I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.
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Thread moved to Android. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.
Do you review the content of my threads before moving them or do you see my name and play pin the tail on the donkey with the final location of the thread?
Like I'm sure many of you did, I read a TON of reviews before buying the Infinity. I mean I read and re-read almost every english site out there that had gotten their hands on a pre-release version a month or so before the device came out (and videos too!). All of these glowing reviews seemed to reassure me that I was making the right decision and amped up my excitement and expectations. But when I got the tablet I was really disappointed about the speed, stuttering, and lagging both while browsing and the device itself. I've upgraded to .26 and have been VERY happy with it since. I'm not complaining about the device or asking how to make it better. I love my tablet and can't wait to rock some custom roms!
My point is that everyone here noticed the problems almost immediately after opening the box. Lately I've been thinking about the inconsistency between the reviews and the initial release of the product and was wondering if anyone else noticed this and is now either more skeptical of review sites, or (especially after some of the debacles with Asus Device Tracker, the Unlock Tool Serial Issue, etc) if there is more going on behind the scenes with Asus.
I remember reading reviews for Motherboards a few years ago and while ASUS has always been one of the top players it seems that other entrants are doing just as good if not better. Other users were noticing the same trend in innovation and frankly quality. I applaud Asus for venturing out into new product lines, but I get this nagging feeling that they're really not doing the best they can and I'm surprised no reviewer called them out on it. I used to be a huge brand champion for them, but I might be slowly losing it....
Just something I've been thinking about and decided to share.
I know exactly how you feel. I have noticed absolutely raving reviews for hardware that was less than overwhelming out of the box before, but the past few year, the number of times I've noticed significant discrepancies between the reviews and the actual buyer's user experience far more often, it seems.
I'd imagine that either the manufacturer is buying off the reviewer (I know several hardware companies only make their products available for review on the explicit notice that only positive aspects are to be referenced, or that the review overall must at least be positive), or that they send off devices that have been pulled inside out by the engineers and have been tweaked to hell (and back), even as far as swapping out components. This isn't so hard to do when you haven't even settled on an actual end-product design.
I know that there's alsways a negative bias on the user forums (like XDA, for example), but the positive review bias is putting me off even more.
Excellent thread.
I wonder about this too, take the Prime...that device was virtually broken out of the box. How could any reviewer not mention the constant ANRs with the web browsing, slowness when installing anything and broken bluetooth?
My Infinity has been great right out of the box. So, no, it doesn't have any impact on my perspective since most of the reviews are in-line with my experience.
The Prime is altogether different, though. It had some clear problems that were broken at the hardware level, so it seemed like someone should have called it out much more quickly.
I would expect the manufacturer to more closely QA a unit they knew was going to be a hardware review unit, so minor flaws that are due to poor QA (a dead pixel/light bleed/etc) I would NOT expect to be called out by most reviewers. But a design defect as glaring and fundamental as WiFi and GPS iisues the Prime had? Not so much.
I expressed the same thoughts back in February with respect to the original prime:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=22396949&postcount=7
Good thread!
The reviews for me add a lot of confusion as I'm sure happens to most.
As a long time home PC builder I got mad at Asus years back because of
some serious issues with their motherboards. So I've always just stepped
over the brand until recently. Asus seems to have changed or maybe it's
just hardware advancements that have become common.
We have a couple of other tablets and I've always thought they we're a hassle
to use in most cases. I've wanted a 10.1 tablet for a couple of years, yet wanted
to wait for some vast hardware improvement. That's where the TF700 comes into play.
I bought this thing for the inside first, quality second, reviews third Asus name last.
I dunno what will happen maybe Android 4.1 will give all the tablets wings...
Thats OK said:
The reviews for me add a lot of confusion as I'm sure happens to most.
As a long time home PC builder I got mad at Asus years back because of
some serious issues with their motherboards. So I've always just stepped
over the brand until recently. Asus seems to have changed or maybe it's
just hardware advancements that have become common.
We have a couple of other tablets and I've always thought they we're a hassle
to use in most cases. I've wanted a 10.1 tablet for a couple of years, yet wanted
to wait for some vast hardware improvement. That's where the TF700 comes into play.
I bought this thing for the inside first, quality second, reviews third Asus name last.
I dunno what will happen maybe Android 4.1 will give all the tablets wings...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That won't happen until CM18 - Redbull
But you hit on exactly what I was getting at with the motherboards. Innovation and quality are not always the same thing. I ended up with a Gigabyte board and was very happy btw.
To be honest I think that consumers in general are ok with sub-par build quality though. As long as something works and isn't absolutely terrible most people are cool with it. Basically as consumers we allow companies to get away with it because we still buy the products. It's a vicious cycle.
To be honest I think that consumers in general are ok with sub-par build quality though. As long as something works and isn't absolutely terrible most people are cool with it. Basically as consumers we allow companies to get away with it because we still buy the products. It's a vicious cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also think that consumers (Americans in particular, myself included) tend to be incredibly price conscious and this has been further exacerbated by both the world economy and the pace of technology. So, the past decade or so, this has really accelerated.
As you note, nowadays, poor build quality is not preferred but it is highly tolerated... probably because the item was viewed as a "good deal" and we know we're just going to buy a new one and literally scrap the old one in just a year or two. We are not buying things with the intent to keep them for years or call a "repairman" if they break, like people did with TV sets in the 50s and 60s.
I have a Moto Droid 1 that was just released from it's 2 year contract in Jan and I've known people who have upgraded phones four or five times since I've owned mine. It's nuts. I'm finally going to replace it because the volume button broke but I found myself half wishing it wasn't so sturdy when I see everyone with their shiny new phones. It's hard not to fall into the rampant consumerism that helps fuel this negative quality trend.
wolfman87 said:
That won't happen until CM18 - Redbull
But you hit on exactly what I was getting at with the motherboards. Innovation and quality are not always the same thing. I ended up with a Gigabyte board and was very happy btw.
To be honest I think that consumers in general are ok with sub-par build quality though. As long as something works and isn't absolutely terrible most people are cool with it. Basically as consumers we allow companies to get away with it because we still buy the products. It's a vicious cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chuckle OL
"CM18 Redbull"
You may have actually tagged a future version!
Gadget reviews on the Internet are on the whole quite poor. There are a lot of factors that most users here could add to.
- they're all tied into an endless consumer release cycle that has to gear up every few months or year depending on the vendor. In that sense they're part of a big ball of constant marketing, hype and desire that people and places like here feed into (I'm guilty!)
- the explosion of 24hr tech coverage on the Internet has all these gadget sites competing for page views, advertising and even access from the very companies they're assessing.
- the gadget "journalists" are constantly switching to new devices, never living with it before they are pressured to judge it for an article that will likely never be updated but always searchable on the net. How many tablet reviews have you seen where someone is paging through home pages as they state how fast or slow a device is? Useless.
-it's true you see more negatives on XDA as far as quality control, but you also see more unfounded hype for new or unreleased devices because people want the next new thing or to feel like their emotional or financial purchase is worthwhile. I trust net reviewers when they uniformly say a device is mediocre (ie Note 10.1) because you know it had to be bad if it sucked in the brief amount of time they gave it. I don't trust their praise until I know for myself it's decent (Nexus 7, Infinity) because there are all sorts of issues they won't be around to see (Prime).