They are all doing news items about "ipad killers" and list the usual suspects, (Xoom, HP Touchpad, Galaxy Tab), but none of them mention the best selling non-iOS tablet....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15087056
So my questions to them (and Asus)
Why should I believe anything techy they tell me, if thjey don't know who the REAL contenders are, rather than simply looking towards to best known contenders.
And to Asus, Why aren't you boasting about your sales figures? We know you have been SELLING 600k+ units every month since March, and can easilly embarrass Samsung, Motorola with more impressive sales figures, so why hold back? (i'm guessing you can't afford to upset either of these companies, as AsusTek has strong dealings with them).
CrazyPeter said:
They are all doing news items about "ipad killers" and list the usual suspects, (Xoom, HP Touchpad, Galaxy Tab), but none of them mention the best selling non-iOS tablet....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15087056
So my questions to them (and Asus)
Why should I believe anything techy they tell me, if thjey don't know who the REAL contenders are, rather than simply looking towards to best known contenders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, you mean to actually pay attention to the main stream media.
That's your first mistake.
This bugs the crap out of me as well. The media (both mainstream and tech) keeps saying that there's no "successful" tablet other than the iPad, when I'm sure Asus is perfectly happy selling 1-2 million units (if not more) of the Transformer. And really, by harping on the iPad as the "only successful" tablet, the media contributes to a self-fulfilling prophecy--how many people want to buy an unsuccessful product?
It's a bit like how election results can't be reported until after polls have closed. People change their votes based on who's winning...
It's just propaganda. They want the majority of the masses to believe that the iPad is the number one contender. The consumer makes the choice on whether to believe it or not based on what knowledge he or she has on the tablet market. If you've done your homework and researched it then you would know that the Apple has mostly marketing backing it's iPad. The real tech savvy person knows the difference and can make a reasonable choice.
Leave it to mainstream media to cloud your mind of the real possibilities. I never have liked Apple despite how thin they can make there products. pfttt...
<petergriffin> You know what grinds my gears? </petergriffin>
Every time someone new sees my Transformer, the FIRST words out of their mouth are "oh, is that an iPad?"
EVERY time.
I guess it just shows how ridiculously successful Apple's marketing department is.
nightwulf said:
<petergriffin> You know what grinds my gears? </petergriffin>
Every time someone new sees my Transformer, the FIRST words out of their mouth are "oh, is that an iPad?"
EVERY time.
I guess it just shows how ridiculously successful Apple's marketing department is.
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Click to collapse
I think the problem is, Apple have virtually unlimited money to push their products, and the more they spend pushing them, the more they sell and they then have even more money.
It's a upward spiral, where Apple and Microsoft have dominance, they can dominate even more. Microsoft is the worst, their money comes from Windows, but they use it to break new sectors with inferior products (Xbox, Windows Phone 7 etc).
i agree when family members see me with my Transformer they say oh you got a ipad too, i let them play with it and at first they are like how did you get your ipad to do this...then i get to tell them that it isnt a ipad, which they should have known by the look of it but i never said my family is smart they think the ipad is the only tablet on the market....but long story short i already converted two my family members to transformers from ipads due to widgets alone.
I was talking to an iPad2 owner yesterday at Changi airport, he saw me using my Transformer, and then asked me what it was, and if it was less than £1000!!!! On the TV they had just shown another Android tablet with a keyboard (Lenovo I believe).
I said it was less than an iPad2 including the keyboard dock, and it had 18 hours of battery life, a proper keyboard and no iTunes lock-in.
He told me the iPad was his first Apple purchase, and could not believe how he was already locked into everything Apple and nothing was actually his.
I got the impression he was going to sell it and get a Transformer when he got back.
First to the market gets the name. How many people had a portable cassette player that was always referred to as a "Walkman".
Oh crap, I just showed my age.
^ oh so true!! apple is a huge media whore but hey, that tactic sure works wonders on herding all the sheep.
crollison said:
First to the market gets the name. How many people had a portable cassette player that was always referred to as a "Walkman".
Oh crap, I just showed my age.
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What's a cassette?
LOL... jusk kidding.
But that's true... like Kleenex.
Everyone as "is that an iPad?", I hate that. But the have the mindshare when it comes to name recognition. I mean come one iPad (like iANYTHING) is fairly easy to remember (especially if you already familiar wit iPads and iMacs). Asus Eee Pad Transformer just doesn't roll off the tongue as easy.
The Galaxy Tab 10.1 has some mindshare due to the sucess of the Galaxy S line. More importantly it get alot of comparison to the iPad because it so thin (thinner than the iPad even). Besides it is a nice device with a sexy design.
Yes the Transformer deserves more recognition but it is popular with those that do research and are more tech savvy. It is is talked about a bit on the tech sites.
---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------
uploder said:
^ oh so true!! apple is a huge media whore but hey, that tactic sure works wonders on herding all the sheep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, all the iSheep.
Here is another "expert"...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ablet-mauler/2011/09/29/gIQAghKl7K_story.html
"there is still no real competitor to the iPad 2,” Ticonderoga analyst Brian White said in a note to clients today."
LOL, it's a shame you can't physically shake these idiots and wake them up. They are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. There won't be anything that is a real competitor to the iPad2 until they wake up and realize there already are some.
Don't think apple is above paying for their 'news'.
I believe the Transformer gets pushed aside for two reasons:
No affiliation with any wireless network providers (as the Xoom and Tab do with companies like Verizon)
Like it or not, wireless broadband is the way of the future. With the exception of Apple none of the hardware manufacturers have the marketting budget to push their devices. Thus, the tablets that "debut" on Verizon/AT&T/whathaveyou are pushed into public visibility. Mainstream media exists to tell the public what they already know or what they want to hear, and there's great advertising revenue in these devices.
It's actually quite impressive that Transformer has generated as much sales as it has. It's honestly a testament to how massive the "techie" community has gotten, as that's the demographic.
Raw spec comparisons always place the Xoom and Tab ahead of the Transformer
Somehow when any reviewer (Engadget, Gizmodo, etc) compares the devices, the Transformer gets left at the bottom. I'm not really sure why that is, as from a usability standpoint, the Transformer kicks the crap out of all competitors. Generally these reviewers focus on ONE point of interest and hold that as the determining factor. The screen is frequently this pivot point. Apparently the Transformer's screen is VASTLY inferior to that of the Galaxy Tab or Xoom, but I don't see it. I've gone to the Verizon store with my TF and compared them all....they all look the same, and neither of the other two match the capability and usefulness of my tablet.
I'm not particularly stressed. There's a huge community behind this device, meaning there will always be neat things to play with. Since Asus was so profitable with these, they'll continue supporting it and pumping out new iterations (which is proven by the 4-core Kal-El iteration announced almost immediately after the TF shipped.)
It's propaganda. That's all it is, plain and simple. Look at the meaning of the word 'Propaganda' and then relate it to what your seeing. It fits like a key.
Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda is often biased, with facts selectively presented (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political, or other type of agenda.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly what your witnessing and you will continue to see more and more 'Mainstream Media' advertise this claim.
Just ignore it. It's bull****. You! The tech savvy person knows the difference and that's all that matters.
Well, by that definition, marketing and advertising is propoganda. Of course these companies want to convince you to buy their product. That's why they built the product.
Your consternation is probably over the partial views of the media, which isn't news (pardon the pun), but definitely disconcerting. All I can say is get your information from as many sources and perspectives as you can, and always question the driving force behind every source.
AcIdC0R3 said:
It's propaganda. That's all it is, plain and simple. Look at the meaning of the word 'Propaganda' and then relate it to what your seeing. It fits like a key.
This is exactly what your witnessing and you will continue to see more and more 'Mainstream Media' advertise this claim.
Just ignore it. It's bull****. You! The tech savvy person knows the difference and that's all that matters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whilst I can understand crap ****e like Engadget, Gizmodo, Slashgear and the like who need advertising revenue from the highest bidder (i.e. Apple) to survive, the BBC link I originally posted is funded by UK licence fee payers and SUPPOSED to be informed, impartial and unbiased, but unfortunately they are some of the biggest Apple fanboys around, with almost every week, they Apple loving writers are spewing out Apple psalms like it's the new religion, their Focus magazine and BBC Click programs are more of the same.
I posted about this recently on another thread:
rickatnight11 said:
These arguments fall upon the deaf ears of fanboys. It goes both ways. There are plenty of Android die-hards (myself included) who don't want to hear any arguments against the ecosystem they love.
The only rational arguments come from a usability or ideological standpoint. Here are two examples:
Ideological - I don't believe a manufacturer should have any control over what software I put on or what I do with my device. My device is a tool, which should conform to my needs, not the other way around.
Usability - I only use this device for these three tasks, and since the alternative does not have support/apps for these particular tasks I prefer them to the competition.
If you are rationally choosing your ecosystem, the only logical arguments fall under these two categories. Otherwise you're simply buying into a brand, and thus you can't make any logical arguments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because the mainstream media and the "tech writers" consist of morons. It's hard not to laugh when you're reading this drivel, like the eighteen articles I've read comparing the Kindle Fire to the iPad and hypothesizing whether it will be an iPad Killer. They're not even comparable, they're not even in the same market. I'm just in shock at how any sane rational person can compare a 7-inch tablet to a 10.X inch tablet at completely different price points and with completely different ideas (Fire is sold at a loss, not a profit because its intended to sell Amazon services hard to make up for the $25.00 loss per unit).
So when you see people comparing the Kindle Fire to the iPad and calling RIM's Playbook a failed "iPad killer" (when it hasn't even tried to kill the iPad), you begin to denounce the bull**** they call a story. They like to generate controversy by using buzzwords like "iPad killer". The mainstream media isn't out to do any fair coverage, it's out to throw in buzzwords and junk to generate hype and readership. Can you expect any fair coverage from that kind of machine? Not in the slightest.
rickatnight11 said:
I believe the Transformer gets pushed aside for two reasons:
No affiliation with any wireless network providers (as the Xoom and Tab do with companies like Verizon)
Like it or not, wireless broadband is the way of the future. With the exception of Apple none of the hardware manufacturers have the marketting budget to push their devices. Thus, the tablets that "debut" on Verizon/AT&T/whathaveyou are pushed into public visibility. Mainstream media exists to tell the public what they already know or what they want to hear, and there's great advertising revenue in these devices.
It's actually quite impressive that Transformer has generated as much sales as it has. It's honestly a testament to how massive the "techie" community has gotten, as that's the demographic.
Raw spec comparisons always place the Xoom and Tab ahead of the Transformer
Somehow when any reviewer (Engadget, Gizmodo, etc) compares the devices, the Transformer gets left at the bottom. I'm not really sure why that is, as from a usability standpoint, the Transformer kicks the crap out of all competitors. Generally these reviewers focus on ONE point of interest and hold that as the determining factor. The screen is frequently this pivot point. Apparently the Transformer's screen is VASTLY inferior to that of the Galaxy Tab or Xoom, but I don't see it. I've gone to the Verizon store with my TF and compared them all....they all look the same, and neither of the other two match the capability and usefulness of my tablet.
I'm not particularly stressed. There's a huge community behind this device, meaning there will always be neat things to play with. Since Asus was so profitable with these, they'll continue supporting it and pumping out new iterations (which is proven by the 4-core Kal-El iteration announced almost immediately after the TF shipped.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only take issue with one thing: The Xoom's screen sucks. Otherwise I agree with you for the most part.
Related
Ok... I am a die hard NON apple kind of guy. My wife bought her Iphone a year ago leaving me and verizon to fend for ourselves. Then I suggested she buy a Mac book as she has been slamming windows for as long as we have been married. So, after loving angry birds on my Gtab for the past month, I thought, what a perfect gift for her (and me to compare) an IPAD would be. So I bought her one for Christmas.
I have to say, the screen really is fine. The lighter weight and the form factor is sweet too. But, to have to have an app (which they do have an app for everything many free for sure) to view most web sites in a "standard" mode such as to see video on them etc., I still can not see that. And, no add on memory and no real interface... the battle is on!
I will update you periodically as I try and see it from an Apple user perspective.
That IPS screen is very nice. Did some after Xmas shopping today and took another look at the iPad. It's the one thing that really stands out on the iPad, versus the GTab.
I know that, in time, Android tablets will catch up (Notion Ink? please don't be vaporware).
roebeet said:
That IPS screen is very nice. Did some after Xmas shopping today and took another look at the iPad. It's the one thing that really stands out on the iPad, versus the GTab.
I know that, in time, Android tablets will catch up (Notion Ink? please don't be vaporware).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hold off, since rumors of some form of USB, microsd, and additional camera functionality will not die in regard to iPad 2011 models.
I can not look at the iPad display, since I then have to reacclimate to G's dispaly. ..... ....
Man, just think of the Gtablet with at least a Galaxy Tab level display.....
Here's my guess on the iPad v2 - it will almost certainly have a camera. Makes sense for Facetime.
A USB port and / or a microSD slot would be a major shocker, so I highly doubt that would happen. It goes against the walled-garden approach that Apple loves so much.
I have been an iphone user for two years. You may heard this before but lack of flash of support equals COMPLETE FAIL as I an an avid news junkie and enjoy news clips.
Now if only Netflix and google can work out their differences and bring official support for streaming netflix to droid devices then I will be switching to droid in the spring when my phone contract is due for renewal.
PS, I have owned an apple PC and it would not run 1/5th the software that was available while the apple had software support for virtually NOTHING that I needed on the PC and couldn't get.
My brother and I had this same argument about a year ago where he was praising the superiority of the Mac, about a month later he embarrassingly admitted to me I was absolutely right about the Apple causing him to not have acess to most of the software out there.
At the time I bought my last Dell laptop I spec it out with the 2G Duo Core, a wireless N1 card, a Geforce mobile GT8600, a 7200spd hard drive and 2G of Ram. I went to the apple web site and spec' out the SAME configuration, it was over $1,000 MORE!
Same hardware, LESS software, nearly double the price.
Come on...how is that EVEN a contest? I have since upgraded that same laptop to Win 7 32b and it STILL runs like a champ (do you think that would have been the case with a macbook?)
By the way, my viewsonic (although a tad buggy at this time) was 25% cheaper than an ipad and the only real advantage I can see of the ipad was superior screen while it has weaker hardware, and I am 100% confident that the Droid 2.2 and coming honeycomb will equal or surpass the ipad in the coming year.
Gauntlet thrown, Apple failed.
I do love my iphone but I have physically thrown it after getting literally thousands of video errors with flash videos news sites not to mention the fact that the vast majority of "apps" are just dumb downed versions of web pages that I do not really care for (there are quite a few with functionaity for actual mobile use but many apps are just "internet for idiots". What I am saying here is that I am not impressed with "who has the most apps" I just need certain specific ones (which you can get from EITHER company pretty much).
I personally have a love/hate relationship with Apple.
My first laptop was a greyscale PowerBook, I've used all the older pre-10 iterations and I think OSX is an outstanding achievement. But iOS just burns me up and I can see that they are expanding this walled-garden mentality into their Mac products, as well. No standard external ports like USB, no external storage, nothing allowed on the device except through iTunes, no Flash just because Jobs is pissed off that Adobe dumped them for MS. I just hate that with a passion. And the iPad v1 is the culmination of everything I loathe about them.
But, it does have a really nice screen.
I am a veteran of the Windows/Mac Wars of the 90s and the one thing I learned is: If it does what you want and I can run what I want, then I don't care what you run. If you like Apple, if you like Win7, if you like Linux, if you like iOS, if you like Android, if you like webOS... then bully for you! I happen to like some of those myself, so whoop de do!
But tell me my platform sucks or try to spend 30min telling me WHY my platform sucks, well, I have better things to do, thanks.
-=Sent from my VS GTablet (VEGAn b4) using Tapatalk=-
I Gave My iPad to my Wife
I gave my iPad to my wife to read her Kindle books on. I bought my gTablet on November 17th, and I have not missed my iPad. I am loving my gTablet, and it is just getting better and better with time. I am running TNT Lite 3.1.2 on mine. With flash, adhoc wi-fi support, and the full market, I am plenty happy. I am looking forward to the bright future of the gTablet.
Doing some research on video out on the IPAD. It has a selection of cables for composite, component and vga, but guess what? Only very few apps output to video such as movies, photos and not much else.
When I hooked up my HDMI to my dock today, EVERYTHING I saw on the screen was showing on the big screen.
roebeet said:
I personally have a love/hate relationship with Apple.
My first laptop was a greyscale PowerBook, I've used all the older pre-10 iterations and I think OSX is an outstanding achievement. But iOS just burns me up and I can see that they are expanding this walled-garden mentality into their Mac products, as well. No standard external ports like USB, no external storage, nothing allowed on the device except through iTunes, no Flash just because Jobs is pissed off that Adobe dumped them for MS. I just hate that with a passion. And the iPad v1 is the culmination of everything I loathe about them.
But, it does have a really nice screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are far more qualified than me to make this assessment but if you are only designing your OS to have functionality with very specific in house written end user software, I would think it would be EASY to achieve a tighter higher performaing OS.
Do the circumstances of how osx exsists in the first place not SIGNIFICANTLY diminish its level of "oustanding" as an achievement?
popezaphod said:
I am a veteran of the Windows/Mac Wars of the 90s and the one thing I learned is: If it does what you want and I can run what I want, then I don't care what you run. If you like Apple, if you like Win7, if you like Linux, if you like iOS, if you like Android, if you like webOS... then bully for you! I happen to like some of those myself, so whoop de do!
But tell me my platform sucks or try to spend 30min telling me WHY my platform sucks, well, I have better things to do, thanks.
-=Sent from my VS GTablet (VEGAn b4) using Tapatalk=-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair points. Although unfortunately for all of us here, if a thing sucks it is going to suck regardless of what any individual really thinks. Suckage is an absolute and will be unaffected by all the good will of the world. Rotten meat will not become premium meat because 1000 people love it. Unfortunately this seems to be the casse with apple. In the 80s A Team and Knight Rider were top shows, just because people were watching did not make them actually good. Just because lots of people are buying Ipads does not over come the facts of an absolute and unavoidable conclusion based on the facts (listed above about ports, camera, storage devices, flash, cost, etc etc.). Its not really about convincing or anyones opinion. Its just a fact that it sucks, kind of like how the world is round (regardless of if anyone likes said fact or not).
insight3fl said:
Ok... I am a die hard NON apple kind of guy. My wife bought her Iphone a year ago leaving me and verizon to fend for ourselves. Then I suggested she buy a Mac book as she has been slamming windows for as long as we have been married. So, after loving angry birds on my Gtab for the past month, I thought, what a perfect gift for her (and me to compare) an IPAD would be. So I bought her one for Christmas.
I have to say, the screen really is fine. The lighter weight and the form factor is sweet too. But, to have to have an app (which they do have an app for everything many free for sure) to view most web sites in a "standard" mode such as to see video on them etc., I still can not see that. And, no add on memory and no real interface... the battle is on!
I will update you periodically as I try and see it from an Apple user perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, well your credibility for providing a non-bias Apple user perspective is tainted by stating you're a "die hard NON apple kind of guy". jk. My sister in law has an Ipad and I think its just a great big Ipod touch which is actually a compliment. It's so smooth and pretty to look at. Did you download skyfire on the Ipad? I heard it was out as an app. I'm curious to see how it runs on the Ipad.
Let us know.
Thanks
roebeet said:
Here's my guess on the iPad v2 - it will almost certainly have a camera. Makes sense for Facetime.
A USB port and / or a microSD slot would be a major shocker, so I highly doubt that would happen. It goes against the walled-garden approach that Apple loves so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, a ff camera will be on the Ipad 2. You know Apple was gonna do that anyways but decided to leave it out so people will be more likely to upgrade. That's why I'm so leary when buying apple products or any product for that matter. I want it to have my minimum requirements at least for me to consider buying it.
I also agree that it will not have expandable memory which is a shame.
xmr405o said:
I agree, a ff camera will be on the Ipad 2. You know Apple was gonna do that anyways but decided to leave it out so people will be more likely to upgrade. That's why I'm so leary when buying apple products or any product for that matter. I want it to have my minimum requirements at least for me to consider buying it.
I also agree that it will not have expandable memory which is a shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think folks will be surprised and there will either be USB function, or micro sd options (both?). The only thing holding Apple back from complete market domination are those issues and people that hate Apple. Though Apple can do nothing for the latter, they can compromise with the former.
There should be some decent "leaks" in about a month. We shall see.........
My first computer back in the late 70's was an Apple ][. That was back in the days of Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. Even back then it was clear that the Woz only really cared about the technology and Jobs only really cared about the money. I was an avid Apple defender back then but a few years later we had Apple taken over, Woz and Jobs were out and Peter Skelly was in. Skelly had been the CEO of Pepsi Cola and his knowledge of technology consisted of being able to flip the on/off switch on lights, computers and various electrical items. Eventually he had the sense to bring Jobs back in.
Here's the problem, Jobs is glorious at design and ergonomic functionality, he is also a true technophile. He designs magnificent looking machines with super friendly GUI's that people love. But, once you get past the look of his machines you find that they offer simple AND limited functionality, and that is the very reason that the great masses love Apple machines.
Because people love the look and feel of the machines they are willing to pay bloated prices for what they see as "superior" technology when really the only thing superior is the physical design and ease of use for the technically unannointed. That is GREAT business, but lousy geekiness.
You can't knock Apple's ability to design machines that sell and make piles of money and you can't knock their success. For me, the problem is that I don't want to give them my money anymore because their machines aren't "fun".
My first priority is that my techno gadgets be functional and a close second is that they must be fun. Apple doesn't fit into that nook. Even so I did buy three Mac's a couple of years ago and found that their build quality was poor and that surprised me a lot. But in business, public perception is a bigger selling point that anything else and Apple got that right, too bad they didn't get the technical end right.
R
I came across this old thread while researching the GTablet. The only thing that is really holding me back from buying one is the screen. The videos I see on Youtube make the screen look really bad, especially one that has a side by side comparison of the Gtablet vs Ipad. Since the GTablet has been out for awhile now, are those who own it still happy? I need to find a B&M store that has one so I can check it out, I really wish it had an IPS screen like the iPad though. I dont get why somebody doesnt come out with a killer Android tablet that can really compete with the iPad.
androidmonkey said:
I came across this old thread while researching the GTablet. The only thing that is really holding me back from buying one is the screen. The videos I see on Youtube make the screen look really bad, especially one that has a side by side comparison of the Gtablet vs Ipad. Since the GTablet has been out for awhile now, are those who own it still happy? I need to find a B&M store that has one so I can check it out, I really wish it had an IPS screen like the iPad though. I dont get why somebody doesnt come out with a killer Android tablet that can really compete with the iPad.
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Click to collapse
I picked the gtab because I like to customize the gtab and try different Roms. I am very happy with mine using vegan tab. Flash has been a big bonus. The screen works surprisingly well. Sure, its not perfect, but this gtab has some power and is 400 bucks less than xoom. If you like out of the box OS and don't like to tinker, then get the 16GB iPad from best buy for $399. Battery life on the gtab is awesome. I wake up at 4am and use it throughout the day and heavy use by evening. I will have several hours left on the battery when I go to bed around 9pm. Try Office depot, as many have them in stock to play with. Good luck.
androidmonkey said:
I came across this old thread while researching the GTablet. The only thing that is really holding me back from buying one is the screen. The videos I see on Youtube make the screen look really bad, especially one that has a side by side comparison of the Gtablet vs Ipad. Since the GTablet has been out for awhile now, are those who own it still happy? I need to find a B&M store that has one so I can check it out, I really wish it had an IPS screen like the iPad though. I dont get why somebody doesnt come out with a killer Android tablet that can really compete with the iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I was having the same issues before I picked up the gtablet, and having used it for a few days, the screen isn't really that bad. I also love the more widescreen aspect of it vs the ipad allows for better media watching. But it does mean you have to dive more into the device and its setup (custom roms, etc) and if that is daunting to you then I would skip the gtablet.
No issues with geek stuff like flashing ROMs. Ive been an Android user since the G1, member here on xda since then. I currently have a SGS Vibrant, rooted with Bionix.
So, what would you compare the screen to? I have a nearby Office Depot, will try to check it out tomorrow. Is the GTablet the best thing going right now? From the specs, it seems so. One last thing, what are you using to protect it? Screen protector? Case?
androidmonkey said:
No issues with geek stuff like flashing ROMs. Ive been an Android user since the G1, member here on xda since then. I currently have a SGS Vibrant, rooted with Bionix.
So, what would you compare the screen to? I have a nearby Office Depot, will try to check it out tomorrow. Is the GTablet the best thing going right now? From the specs, it seems so. One last thing, what are you using to protect it? Screen protector? Case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the newest official and unofficial VS update, you may not need to use an alternative ROM.
I would compare the screen directly to a netbook screen. It is by no means imho as horrid as some would have you think, but it's not for everyone. Some people feel you should be able to see what's on the phone/tablet screens while they sit flat on a desk and you're in a chair - while I think it's nice to be able to, I certainly don't think it's necessary to enjoy it and this is just something again, imo vendors have used to inflate the cost of these devices beyond their 'real' practical value. "why is our tablet $800 when so and so is selling one with the same internals for $300? well, have you SEEEEEN our screen? BIG difference!" yeah, you get my drift.
Spec-wise, I think it's a toss-up between the GTablet and it's siblings (interpad, hanspree tablet, malata zpad, avent vega, etc.) or the Notion Ink Adam. As you probably know, the iPad is pretty nice but it's def. lacking in terms of (imo, again) certain little details where the GTablet and other Android devices with similar specs excel and you would have to either learn to live in Apple's walled garden or do some 'techie' stuff in order to jailbreak anyway. Is it the BEST right now? I don't know - probably not. It was released in Nov. 2010, there's bound to be something with similar specs and a 'better' screen by now, if not then yeah it's probably the best VALUE for what you get as of right now.
I would have got her an ipad too.
Don't get me wrong I love my gtab, but I exhaust so much time modifying and fixing my own one. I don't mind that for myself but stuffed if I'm gonna spend my entire free time fixing someone elses tablet. Ipad can't do as much but in return I don't have to ever look at it or maintain it hence freeing up my spare time.
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB-v1.0.0b5.1.1 using Tapatalk
April 5th, 2011 by Andrew Greenfield
Today’s myth has brought up quite a stir in the community recently. The Android vs iPhone war is bringing a lot of people back to the Mac vs PC wars of the 90’s. So what’s the myth today? The ol’ “it’s one device vs a million” cover.
“Of course android has a greater market share. If I gave away a bunch of phones for free it’d sell better than the iPhone too even if they were crap. You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair. How many android phones are beating the iPhone. Zero. Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred that are so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work. Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone…” (goes on to make nerd jokes and the whole “all Android users still live with their mothers” thing)
It’s beautiful isn’t it? While yes, both of these parties have these people, the fact that the competition is so good that these people exist is great for business. While it’s easier to see competition helping in Android than iOS (only because Android is updated more frequently), both parties should be thankful for the other. Without this kind of competition our phones wouldn’t be half as good! Enough drooling over the free market…
“You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair.”
I see this comment a lot, and honestly, I’m really confused why the hard core Apple supporters continue to use this. Yes, iOS is only on one mobile device (technically more if you count the fact that the iPhone 3G is still being sold). Yes, it is true that if you include iPods and the iPad iOS probably has a greater user base than Android. But that’s not what this war is about (at least yet…Tablet wars are definitely in the future). This war is about which company can put more phones in people’s hands. We (as in the Android community) are not comparing a phone to an OS, we’re comparing a mobile OS to another mobile OS. It’s Apple’s choice to only sell one device. It’s a great thing for their bottom line and right on par with the company’s brilliant business strategy. However, the fact that Android phones are now selling faster than iOS phones (note, iOS phones, not “the iPhone”) means that the market is shifting to Android and away from iOS….Which brings me to my next point:
“Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred”
This is false, and precisely why market share is important. Think about it this way: You’re selling girl scout cookies. You have the option to sell to one neighborhood that is admittedly, much more prone to buying your cookies. Or you have the option to sell on a county level. Which would you pick? Anyone with an understanding of economics would pick the latter. The larger your market, the more opportunities you have to make money. This is why developers think Android will be the best to develop for. It’s the same thing Apple did to RIM. Why would anyone choose to make an app for Blackberry when they can make it for iOS and have an audience that’s many times larger. If you look at it from a third party point of view, those companies will back the OS that has the most users. It’s exactly what happened during Mac vs PC. Only now (with Apple’s impressive growth in Mac sales) are programs being developed for both (here’s to hoping Engineering software will soon be brought to my Macbook Pro!). It’s a vicious cycle. If you fall behind in market share companies stop developing for you. If they stop developing for you, you lose customers (market share). The cycle continues and continues. It’s what happened to Apple computers in the 90’s, it’s what’s happening to Palm and Blackberry now, and it’s what happened to the PSP in its early scraps against the DS. Do I think this will happen to iOS? Absolutely not. iOS is too good and has too large of a user base to be pushed out of existence. However, it should worry the iPhone crowd that as Android continues to dominate you may have to worry about whether Andoid apps will be ported to iOS instead of the other way around.
“…so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work”
There are two ways to answer this. First, I could make the point that most apps require 2.1 or higher, and 80% of Android users have at least 2.1. Secondly, I could bring up the notion that most of the people who REALLY care about their phone aren’t on the few that are running something under 2.x. The small share of Android users that are obsessed with their OS probably own the latest and greatest Android phone. Does my mom care that she has 2.1 on her phone? No. I don’t even think she knows what that is, let alone when she’ll be upgraded. The fact of the matter is is that the majority of the market won’t care if they have an older OS than the person sitting next to them as long as their phones work. Will older phones be useless eventually? Yeah, I can’t argue that the few people that are still running 1.5 are probably running into a lot of problems. However, the amount of people upset with their 1.5 phone aren’t even CLOSE to the people who have an iPhone 3G and are upset with how iOS 4 crippled their phone. It is important to note that not ALL iPhone 3G’s are slowed to a crawl with iOS 4, but the product was widespread enough that Apple is still offering fixes and updates to help out. 4.3 is MUCH better than 4.0, but a lot of 3G users still say that the problem is getting better, but not fixed (this only caught my attention because one of my good friends has the iPhone 3G problem and sent me this funny video to explain to me why she was praying that the iPhone 5 comes soon). I’m not pointing fingers, I’m pointing out that EVERY technology company has this problem; it’s just pointed out with Android more often because of how quickly it upgrades. Is it a “bigger problem” on Android than on iOS? Yeah. But it’s not half as bad as anti-Android enthusiast claim it to be, and whatever OS camp you reside in has the same problems.
“Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone.”
This statement is true. Apple makes a lot of money on their phone sales, Google makes next to nothing (if not nothing) on the their phone sales. However, unless your bottom line depends on Apple’s, this means nothing in this debate; but that’s for another time. The fact of the matter is is that these are just different approaches at making money. Apple’s business strategy is probably the best of any company out there right now; I can’t think of another company (except maybe Nintentdo) that is having more fun rolling around in their money. They make a lot of it. Google isn’t exactly hurting though. While Apple banks its earnings on the immediate sale, Google looks more long term (and even if you like Apple’s strategy better, you have to admit Google as a company knows what it’s doing…how often do you use Yahoo search?). They know if they put the device in your hands, you’ll buy apps, you’ll search, you’ll hit ads, you’ll use Google appliances, etc. Apple takes the “less devices, more money per” approach and Google takes the “more devices, less money per” approach. Both work in their own right. Apple has been doing it for years and they’ll continue to be immensely successful at it. They’ve never given a crap if Macs beat PCs in sales. They could be selling one Mac for every 400 PCs for all they care, as long as that one Mac is still pulling in as much money (and probably more) than the 400 PCs. Same with iOS. Apple users are so excited to have been the top dog in OS for once. They fail to realize that that’s not Apple’s business strategy. iOS will more than likely not be the most used OS in the mobile world at the end of the day, but who cares? Apple will still make a killing on the large market they still have. If you don’t believe me look at video game companies. Nintendo is the only company that makes money off selling its consoles. They make money on every DS and Wii they sell. They’ve been around for years, clearly their strategy works. Microsoft and Sony (Sony especially) take HUGE hits when they sell a console. Before costs were reduced, Sony took some $100 loss for every PS3 sold. They banked on making money once the device was in the consumers hands. They’d buy games and other services to negate that loss and eventually turn a profit. Both Sony and Microsoft are still around, so clearly their business strategy works. Just because you don’t agree with a business strategy doesn’t mean it isn’t successful. Tell either Apple or Google that they need to rethink their business strategy and they’ll walk away laughing.
Closing Thoughts
Anybody can take facts and spin them towards their preference. The original quote was taken from someone who took facts about Android/Apple and spun them towards Apple. I took the same facts and spun them towards Android. The fact of the matter is is that neither of these companies are in any danger of being phased out. Android has a lot of work to do before it truly passes iOS as the preferred OS, but at the same time iOS has a lot of catching up to do to be able to compete with the innovation of Android. This is how competition works. Now, as a consumer, sit back and reap the benefits; whichever device you prefer.
http://www.talkandroid.com/36011-debunking-the-sheep-part-3/
Awesome article, i have both the iphone and an android phone, xperia x10. im gonna post this article on my facebook page just cause this morning in my status i posted that i would use both and see which is user friendlier. Then came all the hate, but it really just comes down to preference. Ios and android are going to rule the mobile os for now and both will be succesful. The debate mostly comes from new android user and some old iphone users and how the newer version of android are actually as user friendly as an iphone. Iphone was on its own for a while but since the newer version of android, more and more people are as satisfied with the their android devices
AT LAST!Someone who speaks with reason on the matter!I don't care whether you prefer iOS or Android,I just care that you have a balanced opinion on the matter.It all comes down to personal preference.What do I care if the guy/gal next to me prefers a different OS than I do?Yeah,I'm one of the guys who use Ubuntu as their daily OS on my PC,so what?Does that make me better or worse than the guys who use Windows or Mac?No.Same with phones.
More people should read your article.From me you have a well earned thanks.
Nice article
.......or you can just remember the old saying "arguing on the internet is like special olympics, even if you win, your still retarded" , and do something better with your time ....
no offense at op , but the average fanboy is dumber than a rock and even worse with apple
Lawl no one cares for WP7? xD
I really love my Apple products, and that includes all sorts of things (even some screwdrivers, hats, pens, water bottles ...)
But my iPod touch 1g is running Android. Apple has dropped support for me with that product, and I figured I may as well do the same thing to them with it
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Yes... sadly enough WP7 is done for in a few ears...
The argument is APPLES and ORANGE.......... or to put more succinctly a non-sequitor
Apple market approach is and has been always has been to market the image and sell the image " only apple is unique or the best, only the best people, etc."
This is a piggy backed approach from the IPOD basis, which capitalized on online music in a mp3 format. It was and is a successful. But,... they're approach still states that they sell you WHAT THEY think is pertinent and decide on what you need, then charge you retail plus 20% for it. It is and still remains a locked and closed system. Creating a image fervor much like when xbox 1st came out, ...long lines customer fights etc.......... 2-digit mob mentality.......... they are good at this .....and it shows.
Android, on the other hand was not created to be closed system since it was based on Linux, it was open source, and the effort was to see if the public would drive development as well as create the new market that would automatically follow...... in essence a novel experiment.......... The result speaks for itself. An open more stable platform that has been embraced around the world. People need to remember that the market is not USA or Europe, but the Entire World. And that, Android has taken over and will continue until the market share of the Iphone IOS will be that of the Mac to the Windows platform. A solid following but, a minority player.
THE DANGER,---- is if Android then is turned upside down by Google, who then figures we are all addicted so now pay up or no support.......... I personally do not think this will happen, BUT... then I don't trust any corporation at all and so, I never let my guard down.
Like I said different animals vying for the same market................
^_^
thank you for your objective approach.
It seems everywhere I look while doing my g-tab research, this debate rages. And, just like abortion and the relative value of left wing versus right wing, most of the time the debate degenerates into name calling and general idiocy. I actually think it IS an interesting discussion to have.....and one with valuable points to be made on both sides. It is important for people to go into the decision of which product to buy with a full quiver of knowledge rather than buying something which doesn't meet their needs or wants. Whether we are talking about three hundred bucks or six hundred, it is not pocket change.
First and most out of character for me, I want to talk about the strengths of the ipad. It is, in typical Apple fashion, a beautiful, iconic, well designed gadget that makes gadget whores the world over salivate to get their paws on it. Despite the many negatives about a closed technosystem (which I will get into later) Apple's technosystem also provides a simplicity and elegance that is almost unmatched in the operating system universe (with the possible exception of Webos). When I am advising friends on what computer or gadget to buy, if money is not an object, I always say this: if you want to do ten things simply and elegantly, ios is a great choice. But if you want to do an eleventh thing, or any of the first ten thing in a different way, Apple won't let you.
Surprisingly, one of the arenas that Apple is really dominating is portable gaming. After years of being a PC gamer and scoffing at my Mac gamer friend with their pathetic game library, I thought that Android would at least be on par. Much to my shock, even Webos is a vastly superior platform for gaming when compared to Android. It is my opinion that Google and Nvidia need to address the sad dearth of good games ASAP if they have any hope of breaking into a race in which they are already a lap behind.
Finally, I will say that Apple has done a masterful job of building an absolutely rabid fan base. As an overarching company, it's frankly shocking the kind of product dedication they are able to inspire. A few years back when Apple laptop hard drives were failing at an alarming rate, my hard core Apple friends looked for ANY excuse to let the company off the hook. But they have worked VERY hard through marketing and mostly (minus Steve Jobs) fantastic public relationsto build that kind of relationship with the consumer. Android and it's various licensees need to develop an interface that is much more user friendly and accessable to the non technically minded public.
Now to my beloved Gtab. Clearly from a hardware perspective it is on par with, or arguably superior to, the ipad. What seems to be overlooked in these discussions over and over is that to compare the Gtab and the Ipad is essentially the same thing as comparing a Honda and a Lexus. A Honda will most likely last as long or longer than a Lexus, and run as well or better. But people who buy Lexus are willing to pay a tax on luxury and brand name. But the Lexus costs over twice as much, so ultimately comparing the two based on their merits is less valuable than asking what the owner wants from their purchase. Clearly the Gtab, clocking in at around half the price of the Ipad, is a far better bang for the buck. But if what the consumer wants is the brand name, cool factor, and the 'it just works' mentality, and they are willing to pay a premium for the 'privilege' of owning Apple, then an Ipad may very well be the right choice for them. However, I think that with VERY little
technical know how, the Gtab quickly becomes an obvious alternative. It obviously holds the advantage when it comes to the web (complete flash compatibility is a fairly huge advantage right now and could become a bigger one as people develop useful flash apps for business), and the open market is both an advantage and disadvantage. There is no quality control in the Android market, but there is also far more scope for creativity and innovation now, and depending on how Google etc play their cards, and most definitely in the future.
Obviously, cheap memory expandability is a massive advantage to the Gtab. Non- expandable devices, in this era of cheap flash memory, cannot be looked at as anything but simple greed. The same goes for proprietary ports and cables. Gtab has a clear advantage here with usb, micro usb, microsd, and the possibility of easy hdmi out in the future.
Android itself has major advantages and disadvantages. It is not nearly as intuitive or as easily picked up as Ios, but it has far greater room for quantum leaps forward. Ios, to avoid alienating it's core users, is forced to take a far more conservative, evolutionary approach. Android needs to use this to it's advantage by making bold, market changing leaps forward and continuing to undercut Apple on price point, rather than playing catch up and releasing expensive tablets and trying to compete with Apple at what they do best (I believe the Xoom was a fairly major miscalculation, but won't go into that now). Apple is at risk of falling into operating system complacency like Palm did in the early 2000s. Android should leap on innovation, and reward it well....swype is a fantastic example of this. I'm writing this on my Gtab with swype right now, and there is nothing in the virtual keyboard world that even comes close.
In closing, let me say that I choose Honda over Lexus. I choose an open technosphere where I can use technology as I wish. I love my Gtab and plan to use it for the foreseeable future...but I pray that Nvidia and Google get together and realize that an open system doesn't have to mean a system without a game plan. Nvidia needs to get on the stick and release a raft of games that show off the technology Tegra 2 can bring to the table. Android tablets, and specifically sub 300 tablets could be a real draw to young gamers as an alternative to the new DS and the forthcoming PSP IF they had a good library of possibilities. They need to continue to support those of us that have already jumped aboard. Make us be the missionaries of their coolness. Just in the Woot/Tigerdirect liquidation over 10,000 Gtabbers have been added to the ranks. That is NOT an insignificant number. They need to build as many IT/business friendly apps as humanly possible. Apple's insistance on doing things their way has left them extremely vulnerable to any companies that can offer a more business friendly solution. This and this alone is why RIM is still in business. If Viewsonic and all other licensees could get even a portion of the 18-25 portable game market AND get a portion of the 30-50 business market, they would be in an excellent position to take a bite out of the big Apple. Having said all this....I admire Apple. I admire their consistant refinement of already existing technology. They may only make evolutionary leaps, but damn they do it well. But as long as I can buy more product and more freedom for half the price, that's the way I'm walking.
I'll just say that I bought the gtablet for the family so that we could surf the web on a comfy couch. Web content includes flash. The ipad doesn't support flash.
The OS is irrelevant when you're surfing the web, so the choice is obvious.
What was the point of your thesis? Who and why would you go with any general consensus on any man made products these days especially when they are mostly made in China with the exception of the lexus Isn't that one of toyota's non-braking brands? Mostly people are swayed by emotional responses to what they feel they may be getting. It is sad to know so many are building their self esteem, self worth, value from having or owning innate objects including g tab. Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.
edirector said:
Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
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Funny story. So, I was sitting on the train other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.
goodintentions said:
Funny story. So, I was sitting on the other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.[/QUOTE]
But it doesn't ipad 2 has serious operable issues and economic standing in life has no correlation to tech toys. Who can't afford an iphone they are selling for $49 and you can get ipad at walmart. People utter such nonsense in reference to apple products. I paid $500 for my cell phone cash.
It boils down to a matter of choice. For myself I will own 2 or 3rd of these products none apple. I will pick up playbook next as soon as I see what the development community can do with it. My spouse offered to buy me an ipad not costing me a dime I said don't waste your money.
I agree and have said much the same thing since I bought my first Droid 1. I have since upgraded to a Droid X and the Gtab.
Apple is great, if you like living inside a tight little box. Android is for those who like to express themselves and push the limits.
Then I started some new classes and they give me a Macbook Pro. I must admit, the packaging was very nice, especially compared to my last HP (that is now trash because HP won't support it...) but the first thing I did was pull out my copy of Windows 7 and partition the hard drive. I might have to do some of my design work on the Mac partition, but the rest of my time is spent on a "normal" computer.
I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads. In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition. In fact, with the exception of the display (which I actually don't have issue with since I'm in landscape all the time anyway), I think the hardware is superior in every way to the ipad. The fact that Viewsonic managed to make a product compete on a level playing field with the top tablets in the market today for less than half the price is incredible and goes to show how much the manufacturers (especially Apple) are making off of consumers.
I do recommend ipads for my friends who aren't tech-savvy. As was said before, Apple products just work and you do have to respect that. The completely closed system in which they operate allows for total control and an unparalleled experience for the AVERAGE user. My Evo and my gTab are inoperable for some length of time about once a week because I won't stop messing with them. And Apple products do look sexy, in a man-purse gucci sunglasses kind of way.
Comparing iPads and gTabs as Honda and Lexus isn't a fair comparison. A better comparison would be a modded out Nissan Skyline GT-R with twin oversize turbos, nitrous, and a shake-your-neighbor-out-of-bed-to-watch-your-burnout tunable exhaust (That's the gTab) versus an out of the box Ferrari. Both are fast. Wicked fast. And both look sexy in different ways. The most important thing is that they both run a 1/4 mile in pretty much the same time. The Ferrari has a v12 and a carbon-fiber monocoque chassis from the factory, but the Skyline has more cupholders. The guy driving the Ferrari gets out of his ride at the local Starbucks and has every money-grubbing trophy wife drooling on it. The guy with the skyline has to reprogram his standalone ECU to back it out of the garage, but gets his hood shined by models for Turbonetics. The Skyline has a back seat.
The gTab is not a poor mans tablet. The gTab is a tablet for people who want to smoke that d-bag in the ferrari but are smart enough not to drop $120k on it. And comparing the gTab to the iPad isn't even worth doing. The hardware is too close to call, the benchmarks are inconclusive at best. What we should be doing is comparing end users of these products.
I would say both have their places. I love my gtab and believe it suits my needs and temperament to a tee. However, I am by training and inclination a tinkerer and I don't mind the occasional lockup or reboot as the price I pay for the ability to tinker. My wife and mother, on the other hand, would be seriously torqued if it happened to them on anything approaching a regular basis. Consequently, they both have iPads and not gTabs.
I am the antithesis of an apple fanboy (my wife gets pissed because I constantly refer to her iPhone as an iSuck) but not really for any reason other than what I perceive as the inherent arrogance of The Steve and his minions. And I dislike being dictated to. But other than my philosophical issues with apple I really can't say too much negative about the iPad, other than I think it's ridiculous that they have neither SD card support or, and I consider this borderline criminal neglect, USB ports. For people like my technophobic mother though, they are just what the doctor ordered. The iPad is the only device we've ever found that will consistently allow her to access the web and email without turning her off or intimidating her.
On the other hand, I think the android tablet market has a lot of promise but is trying hard to strangle itself at birth with the pricing structures the manufacturers keep adopting. That's all I will say about that for now (though I did rant about it here: http://www.swamphole.org/content/tablet-computing-101). If the vendors can get that under control and Google doesn't piss too many people off with their to-date refusal to release Honeycomb, I think these tablets have a very bright future. Right now I don't think any of them are stable enough for anybody but the people who are tech savvy and/or don't want an iPad for whatever reason. For those folks that are willing to put in the effort I think devices like the gTab can be made into far superior tablets than any iPad.
Thanks, Macros764, for your post. This us (non-Apple users) versus them (Apple users) feeling has existed for ages now and it's good of you to remind us that there are 2 almost entirely different markets (and possibly mentalities) at work here. Another person noticed what you hinted at in your post (the Honda vs Lexus distinction) and commented on it long ago.
I'm talking about Neal Stephenson's interesting essay, "In the Beginning... Was the Command line", which you can search for on Google (as a new poster, I can't add a direct link here).
His essay written in 1999 was about Linux, Windows and Apple users, but you can replace Linux with Android everywhere in that essay and it will still all ring true.
I like Mr. Stephenson's terms for the different kinds of users. Android users are like H. G. Wells's Morlocks--they're the ones who like to tinker with stuff and tend to know how those things work. Apple users have always been the Eloi. They don't care how things work as long as it does (and it looks good).
I tend to be a Morlock (and I suspect a lot of the users on this forum are too, to varying degrees), but some days, I wish I could be an Eloi.
Enjoy reading the essay. Be warned that in true Stephenson style, it is a very long piece.
An enjoyable and thoughtful piece - better than the usual flames and rants that the word Apple usually provokes. Never one to miss an opportunity to add my two cents, here I go. To begin with I have many years experience - I was in IT before the PC was born so I've had a chance to watch the whole thing from start to finish. There was a time when there was just DOS and every computer ran it - branded or clone. There was another alternative CP/M and I used it but it died by natural selection. I think there was even Unix around at that point but it was specialized. Later there were a lot of different things to choose from Windows, Apple, Commodore and lots of other things that have disappeared. Windows evolved into the os for business (after IBM shot itself in the head with OS2) and Mac became the os for graphic arts. It kind of stayed that way for a long time and Apple really was a niche market. Linux appeared but it was brutal in those days. Everything was manual setup, X sometimes worked and sometimes didn't and you had no idea how things would work on your particular box. I have been playing with linux since those early days but ultimately in my business environment windows was the os of choice. Apple remained something that "the print guys" used. In my mind the displacement of the walkman by the ipod marked the shift of Apple's fortunes. Whether it was the cash or the public perception of Apple or both they suddenly became a much bigger player. They clearly "got" the marketing thing and their closed garden approach did make them very palatable for the masses who were willing to pay extra to be safe from the blue screen of death, endless virus attacks and debacles like Vista. Linux has continued trudging but the continued fragmentation still prevents it from really getting into the game. Ubuntu is the best hope for Linux in my opinion. They seem to have figured out that mainstream users don't need 10 different word processors in each distribution - just one good one that works something like Word that people are used to. I think that if Ubuntu continues the way it is going it will see more and more adoption over time especially as Windows becomes more and more clunky in the effort to squeeze cash out of increasingly savy users. The problem for Ubuntu is that it may be too late.
Increasingly, I find that the tablet idea that I once scorned is probably the direction that things will go in for many users. Executives where I work want to know if they can have a tablet - not a laptop to take with them. People at home are happy to curl up on the couch with a tablet to surf the web, read email and interact with friends. Apple knows this because they have had the experience with the ipod, the iphone and now the ipad. Their closed world gives them a huge advantage because they don't have to worry if google is going to release the source code for them or if Invidia will bother to write drivers for them. They control it all.
So, what's a g-tabber to do. Well we can't make Google release Honeycomb, we can't force Invidia to write drivers and it doesn't seem like we can even get Viewsonic to do much of anything. I worry that Android will fragment the way Linux did and all the competing versions will just sap the strength of the whole.
That said - I've got Vegan Ginger on my tablet, I've added Clemsyns kernel with CIFS support so I can access my files on my server. I've picked and chosen apps, 99% of them free so I can do almost everything on my g-tab that I can on my PC. It is fast, cool, and completely under my control. I keep pushing the envelope to see what else I can do with it. If it never evolves beyond where it is right now it will still be the best $300 I've spent on gadgets. The developer support in this forum is enviable and I know that I haven't done or learned everything about the g-tab yet. So my g-tab may not be the expensive fancy sports car ripping down the highway that the ipad is but man, when I go off roading and mud bogging with my g-tab, I have a blast! So choose your vehicle for you activities and don't try and second guess yourself or anyone else. Life is short - be happy!
austontatious said:
I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads.
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I don't think it implies any such thing. It does, however, define your social status. It's like what school you went to for college. For some, the only reason they went to school A, which costs $60,000 a year, is because they're following the family tradition and the father is some lawyer or doctor. For others, a school like Iowa State or U. of I. looks just as good but costs only a fraction of what school A charges.
The ipad and the xoom really were designed for people to show off. Everything about them looks, exterior wise, looks good and classy. The gtab, for lack of a better word, is ugly looking. Here is what Robert has to say about the difference between an android device like the gtab and something more high class like the xoom or the ipad.
Android is like having an old beat-up Chevy - not much to look at at first, but after some tweaking under the hood, a good paint job and redesigning the interior, you have a great car that not only runs and looks good, but is designed for you because you made it that way. iOS is like a really nice looking car that came off the assembly line - looks nice, runs great and all the car shops have accessories for it, but there's nothing unique about it. Looks like everyone else's car. So it depends on what you want.
In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition.
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And yet a lot of people on this forum have specifically expressed that if they had the money they'd buy the ipad or xoom.
In fact, I am convinced that if the ipad, xoom, and gtab all cost the same, nobody would even consider buying the gtab... except for me. I like to hunt down non-mainstream items to own. I don't like my stuff to look like everyone else's.
I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.
Pexcer said:
I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.
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I have both an iPad2 and a Gtablet. The iPad2 is very nice, and does what it does very well. And, it prints to the local laser printer. Streams netflix, etc.
You have to jailbreak it to get access to the stripped down MacOS that is iOS, with shell, etc, which I'm not doing - did that with an iPod Touch a few years ago, and although its fun it really doesn't add much now that the app store has soaked up most developers.
iPad2 = just works. If it does what you want, you're golden. If you're willing to risk a $600 device, you can jailbreak it and gain a level of tinkering that is about 20% of the tinkering you can do in Android on the GTablet.
So, yeah - GTablet is way more fun to tinker with, swapping in new kernels, playing with various roms... Android is still a lot rougher as well, and more open (you can drop in stuff *not* from a walled garden) but for the average person who just wants a pad to couch surf, read the news at breakfast, do their email, read books, or play games... iPad2 is going to do it. It's going to do it as well as a laptop, and a lot more conveniently, without the hassle of virus checking or other crap that most people would just as soon not deal with.
I feel like the "status symbol" argument is a strawman. If you're just a regular person, not into coding, tinkering, etc... not into more than surfing and email and maybe some games, the iPad is going to be as good as a laptop, and about as much if not less in cost. This is why the iPad is eating into laptop sales, and killed the netbook market.
Can Android get there and compete? Unless Honeycomb is way WAY better than Gingerbread, I think they're at least a year if not two away from parity with the current iPad2 just on software. Again, I'm not considering myself (or likely anyone who would even visit xda-developers) as the iPad target market. But there are way more people in the target market than are here
I have both. I bought the G tab back in January knowing full well the issues with it. It was my intention to mod it like most here but for one thing or another haven't done it yet. I do like customizing main screen anyway I like to, with widgets and such, something the IPad can't do. The fact that I can convert movies on my pc and copy by USB drive is great. Photo viewing, music, surfing the net, audio books are great on it.
I decided I really wanted the IPad for my business which has many more and better apps suited for it. I can take pictures of job sites , keep track of estimates and invoicing with some very good apps.*
The whole Mac cult is creepy but I knew about that. The display is very good, no denying. Form factor, great.
I am keeping both of them.
Well topic/discussion purposed is Samsung's muddled delivery of ICS part of a larger rumoured back lash from manufacturers whom seem to be upset at Google for three reasons? First is Google’s acquisition of Motorola mobility apparently still doesn’t sit well with OEM's, the discontent has been amplified by reason number two. Some still don’t buy the party line of patent purchase only. This seems ungrateful from an outsiders point of view should this speculation hold true.
See such an article here:
http://www.androidauthority.com/google-motorola-deal-android-manufacturers-73966/
Second is Google trying to execute more control as many in blogs and tech articles have suggested Google should. This has been to address the issues of diversity and “fragmentation” that Google has faced criticism for. To what degree is Google executing control still remains to be seen. On a side note I and others have suggested the OEM’s give a stronger and narrower focus with fewer new devices but more polish and support.
Third is that Google with Android has not shown the preferential treatment the big players would have preferred; allowing smaller brands to gain ground and market share using this open platform. Brands like Archos, ZTE, and Huawei. Also allowed ASUS to gain a foot hold in the mobile market, ASUS who now seems to have a strong relationship with Google.
Samsung’s fudged ICS upgrade alone may mean nothing. But with HTC recent delivery and overhaul of ICS, combined with Sony decision to possibly hold ICS upgrades because it feels they miss the mark of quality could be indications of such unrest with the Manufacturers is more than just rumours. If such unhappiness is present and being actioned or plotted that’s where things turn interesting or concerning.
Many would think this unwise considering the lack of success with Manufacturers own proprietary OS’s. Nokia's Symbian slowly lost out, Bada is nowhere near the success Sammy had hoped for, despite cited as being more popular at the beginning of this year than Windows Phone. Meego didn't see much of a life.
Let me hear what you have to say on this topic
I think regarding the purchase of Motorola, it is definitely seen as simply a patent buyout. There are plenty of rumours of them already trying to sell the hardware side of Motorola.
Gaining 17,000 (or was it 12,000) patents is going to be a very good thing for manufacturers, knowing that they are much less likely to be sued with the added protection from the extra patents. However, if rumours are true and Google is looking to sell to Huwaie (?) then that will be another manufacturer up there all vying for a shot at the big time. The good thing is competition breed competition, so we will see devices continuously being updated and bettered, whereas the iPhone will not see this at such a rate.
I think Google trying to take a bit more control over Android is overall a good thing, even if manufacturers may not like it so much because it means it is harder to put out the cheaper handsets that have been selling so well.
siravarice said:
I think regarding the purchase of Motorola, it is definitely seen as simply a patent buyout. There are plenty of rumours of them already trying to sell the hardware side of Motorola.
Gaining 17,000 (or was it 12,000) patents is going to be a very good thing for manufacturers, knowing that they are much less likely to be sued with the added protection from the extra patents. However, if rumours are true and Google is looking to sell to Huwaie (?) then that will be another manufacturer up there all vying for a shot at the big time. The good thing is competition breed competition, so we will see devices continuously being updated and bettered, whereas the iPhone will not see this at such a rate.
I think Google trying to take a bit more control over Android is overall a good thing, even if manufacturers may not like it so much because it means it is harder to put out the cheaper handsets that have been selling so well.
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So far Google hasn't appeared to have had much influence on Motorola, many because it hasn't been fully approved/finalized. Oddly enough the hold up is China. The strength of the rumour Google selling the Hardware division to Hauwei is the ability to capitalise on the lucrative Chinese market where Android already is dominating.
Time will tell about the patent side, although no evidence is apparent that supports its more than a patent purchase. We'll have to see who gets the next Nexus smartphone and tablet.
I understand there a few topics about the court cases including Apple and Samsung, but I wanted to point something out that I thought funny/satisfying.
Edit: I realize this is more of a rant. Sorry!
Ever since the first court case when Apple sued, I had an anger in me. Solely because Apple has been claiming that Samsung couldn't have progressed to where the company has today if it weren't for the fact that they "stole" the iPhone design. I have a couple of things to say to that.
1) As for the design, I can't possibly see how another phone can get in trouble for "copying" the iPhone. Something as simple as a black, rectangular phone with a single button could not be copied unless the company specifically AIMED to replicate the iPhone, and I doubt that is the case with Samsung.
2) About 25% of the components in the iPhone are supplied by Samsung... Lol
3, The satisfying piece of news) Somewhat old news, but for those of you who missed it, Samsung wanted to submit a document as court evidence to battle the accusation of "copying the iPhone", but for an unknown reason, it was declined. Despite being declined, Samsungs legal team went against the order of the judge, and ended up publishing the document publicly. What was the document? A document showing the design for a PRE-iPHONE device, that actually, does look very, very similar to the iPhone. In fact, SEVERAL devices resembling an iPhone, all of them designed in 2006, before the iPhone release.
I love this. Not so much because I'm an android fanboy, but more so because I DESPISE Apple (That's another discussion in itself). These documents are like saying F you to Apple...
I wish I can link you guys to the articles and pictures, but my account is relatively new. Please do the research (if you'd like) and look at the pictures yourselves if you haven't! Search "allthingsd samsung goes public" on Google and click the first link.
TL;DR - Samsung f**ks over Apple
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
PepperGardener said:
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
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Lol. Well although I do like Samsung, and not so much Motorola, although they do make good phones. Just wanted to exemplify the fact
that the satisfaction came from my hatred towards Apple, not the love towards Samsung.
TL;DR - I hate Apple.
PepperGardener said:
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
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Did you really think?
PepperGardener said:
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
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Click to collapse
Psch, motorola makes good hardware maybe. Their software is crap. Ever heard of anyone actually saying 'Yeah I think I'd like motoblur on my phone!' Yeah me neither. Samsung has got software down and their CPU/GPU is always ahead of the game. Both are better than apple though, lets agree on that.
PepperGardener said:
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
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LOL. yeah rite xD
Thank God it's not just me
I was thinking about commenting on Motoblur, but I decided to not stray away from the topic... even though we apparently have. (But that's okay)
I'm glad I'm not alone, never really thought I was though, and yes I agree totally. Apple can suck it
Personally i think samsungs ui does look too much like the apple ui. Look at the uk case where the judge ruled that on first impression they do look similar but that after using both he decided overall the experience was different. Apples main argument is that the first impression people have is that they look the same. To be honest I actually agree this point. Samsung haven't done enough to look unique.
This is the only point I agree apple have a case with, i think most of their cases are stupidly overblown to the pont of appearing petty. The actual patents that apple are trying to claim are to me not generally what i would term innovative enough to warrant being patentable inventions. I think this should be handled as a copyright case not a patent case.
One of the things people fail to mention is samsungs allegations that apple are infringing their patents. The samsung patents to me seem much more valid than the fluff apple are claiming as patents. If apple expect companies to accept their patents they should respect the patents of others.
Theres no mystery as to why the evidence was rejected. The judge had given a time that evidence should be submitted by, samsung tried to submit it too late. Theres nothing sinister the judge had set rules that had to be followed.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
What annoys me is the fact its a mobile phone, there isnt a lot that you can change to make a touch screen phone look loads different from another. They are basically all the same shape, they all have an ear piece which has to be at the top and buttons have to be at the bottom. As for the look of the ui same goes, a desktop on a computer is basically the same, most used apps at the bottom just like quick launch on PC then other apps spaced evenly on the rest of the screen. With apps been available on iOS and android then that makes them look more alike. Its all bs and apple piss me off.
Sent from my Jelly Beaned Galaxy S2
How can anyone love or hate pieces of black plastic or companies producing them, it always amazed me. Use your feelings towards some things worthy of it. Anyway, Nokia was the first in the late 90s with some proto smartphones with touch screens. They completely screwed it and that's a shame.
Closed
Redundant thread and wrong section