Related
http://gizmodo.com/5676008/hands-on-the-nexus-two-by-samsung
I love my Galaxy S, but this is a bit disappointing.
I was hoping for something that would push the bar - like a 4" Super AMOLED with a dual-core processor or something nuts like the N1 was over it's generation.
On the bright side, it does show that the Android lineup is a lot stronger than it was before.
it could also mean that well get a stock rom build that could prolly be easily be ported over easily to ours?
Yeah... I'm hoping this means we'll actually get timely updates in the future.
kuherrm said:
it could also mean that well get a stock rom build that could prolly be easily be ported over easily to ours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. This could be the single best thing if the ROMs can be easily ported and Google is in charge of software updates like they were with the Nexus One.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
this is one of the worst ... i dont know if i should even call it an article, but just so we can reference to it properly we will.
first, googles nexus one was very innovative, it showed a real and true glimpse into the future. for the second one there is no way they will take a step back and use some current hardware that has already been out for a while.
this is my opinion of what i believe is in the best interest of google.
so to pick on the article a little bit.
they keep refering back to the galaxy s line, which according to the "article" the only thing that was similar between them was how they looked, it says specifically that they had no idea what it had inside of it lol.
it states that the "nexus 2" was far less impressive than the n1, so what are they going by to support this statement? how it looked (opinion) and what they guess is inside of it? furthermore he didnt even know what kind of screen it had on the outside, he thinks it is an oled 4"... but not really sure, but one thing is for sure, it is "flat"
kuherrm said:
it could also mean that well get a stock rom build that could prolly be easily be ported over easily to ours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the article.... omnomnomnom
I agree whole-heartedly.
kuherrm said:
it could also mean that well get a stock rom build that could prolly be easily be ported over easily to ours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's all i can think about right now .
galaxy s with AOSP gingerbread and google rolling out updates every month? amazing.
If the Nexus 2 is a rebadged and tweaked Galaxy S, then we have just been handed a great gift. Google and a significant portion of the android developer community will move on to our platform, and will tweak the device to their hearts desire. This means we will be at the front of the line to get any updates. And almost all new software will be compatible to our phones. Won't we love to be in the news as one of the first phones to get Gingerbread, Honeycomb, and IceCream, rather that the last ones to get Froyo.
insaneturbo13 said:
it states that the "nexus 2" was far less impressive than the n1, so what are they going by to support this statement? how it looked (opinion) and what they guess is inside of it? furthermore he didnt even know what kind of screen it had on the outside, he thinks it is an oled 4"... but not really sure, but one thing is for sure, it is "flat"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question is how the heck can you not be sure if you're looking at an oled screen??
I obviously can't speak for anyone else but I can usually tell within the first second of looking at a screen if it's oled or not... if you don't believe me try putting an iphone and a 'real' phone like the N1 or the captivate side by side, then have them play the same video.
this should end the GPS debate as well. if the nexus two uses our chip, we'll either get a soft fix or we'll know our hardware is defective. if it uses a different chip, we know ours is broken forever.
More info/confirmation from PCMag. Too bad no confirmation on the hardware part; other than how it looks...
FTA:
yes, Samsung is working on an unlocked Android device that looks like the one in Gizmodo's pictures. But it may not be called "Nexus Two," my sources said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I for one dont care if the hardware was the same and the phone looked like that(most likely wont). As long as you give me stock Gingerbread Rom, no ATT crap and a working GPS, I will be picking one up.
Wish that they stuck with the Nexus 1 hardware and tweaked it. I love my phone... but why google is using Samsung is beyond me.
I wonder if Google did ANY research before signing the deal on this? Obviously they never looked on GOOGLE for issues with Samsung Galaxy S devices. Their marketing team should be drawn and quartered.
But... with all that being said - if Samsung is just pumping out the hardware and Google is the one providing the software without Sammy's thumb in the pie - it might be a halfway decent device.
Also.. was the lil tabby thing sticking out from the bottom of the phone?
nr2134 said:
I for one dont care if the hardware was the same and the phone looked like that(most likely wont). As long as you give me stock Gingerbread Rom, no ATT crap and a working GPS, I will be picking one up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the point, at least for the majority of Captivate owners (are you not one yourself?) in this forum, is that when/if said phone is released, there won't be any need to buy it in order to get the stock rom you're referring to, as it would most likely be easily ported over to the Captivate.
t-readyroc said:
I think that the point, at least for the majority of Captivate owners (are you not one yourself?) in this forum, is that when/if said phone is released, there won't be any need to buy it in order to get the stock rom you're referring to, as it would most likely be easily ported over to the Captivate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha.. but your missing something here. The keyboard. Might be easy to convert for the Epic crowd... but for those without a keyboard probably not so much.
We won't know until it is released and the custom ROM developers can get their hands on the source.
t-readyroc said:
I think that the point, at least for the majority of Captivate owners (are you not one yourself?) in this forum, is that when/if said phone is released, there won't be any need to buy it in order to get the stock rom you're referring to, as it would most likely be easily ported over to the Captivate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand and do own a cappy, but that would take time and I dont like to wait.
When I had my N1 before I played with my brothers Captivate there was no wait for a new ROM and I loved it. Unfortunately, the N1 was slow compared to the Captivate and I switched.
avgjoegeek said:
Aha.. but your missing something here. The keyboard. Might be easy to convert for the Epic crowd... but for those without a keyboard probably not so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keyboard? Nothing I've read on this rumored handset says anything about it including a hardware keyboard (if that's indeed what you're implying)... Have you read something I haven't?
Just speculation but maybe this is why samsung is taking their sweet time getting froyo out. Possibly getting gingerbread ready for this and other galaxy s devices?
Thats right Folks! Honeycomb 3.0 (yup its 3.0!) Has been revealed! It was revealed a few minuets ago by Google themselves and well, it looks awesome! Its got a whole new look, just a promised.
It looks super fast and its definitely a step in the right direction.
The bad news? Its tablet only. So yeah, that sucks. I also am guess it will only work on Tegra 2 only tablets officially, but nothings stopping you guys from changing that! If its possible anyways...
A video is available at engadget and gizmodo.
Britoso has posted a link to the video, thanks
So what do you think?
link: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/05/google-shows-off-android-3-0-the-entirely-for-tablet-honeycom/
Video: http://cdn.static.viddler.com/flash/as3/simple-publisher.swf?key=fd57af85
I'm confused why Google is still pursuing ChromeOS when Android is so successful and includes Chrome (GoogleTV, Honeycomb).
Yeah BGR just posted a youtube video of this but it was almost immediately set to a private video.
Anyone know a public link?
superchunkwii said:
Yeah BGR just posted a youtube video of this but it was almost immediately set to a private video.
Anyone know a public link?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
updated my post with the video link
The link above works! Engadget put it back up Have fun.
britoso said:
updated my post with the video link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I just saw that. Looks good. Now let's see the awesome hardware I will buy later this year.
looks sweet. Hopefully it will be ported to my iPad eventually (2.2 is being ported right now)
It looks fantastic. Futuristic, legitimately cool, and smooth. Looks nothing like android currently does. Its gonna be fun watching the two forks of android develop (phone/tablet).
Cant wait to see what the next phone iteration has in store, cause this looks like it would have absolutely no place on smaller screen devices (phones).
If 3.0 Honeycomb is for tablets then what would 3.0 for smartphones be called? Hotcakes?
raven369 said:
If 3.0 Honeycomb is for tablets then what would 3.0 for smartphones be called? Hotcakes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It never says Honeycomb is *only* for tablets. Honeycomb will probably have a really good scaler, as the new gmail app was demoed to have previously, so it will work on any dual core device.
I am betting that when all the dual core phones launch later this year they will get 3.0 as it is modified better for these devices. Just tablets first.
I want some one to port or grab that google talk app.... I want video chat in google talk!!!!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
As it looks, Honeycomb (aka Android 3.0) won't be just for tablets - its also coming to our phones at some point. For all the details head over to engadget for an interview with Matias Duarte: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/07/exclusive-interview-googles-matias-duarte-talks-honeycomb-tab/
Sent from my Desire HD
Yup, I think this will scale quite well with Mobile, and yes I am really excited by this. Looks super cool
And regarding britoso comment on what is the point of ChromeOS. I just can't see ChromeOS by itself as it is designed for cloud computing and mobile computer I just can't see it working as you need to be always connected and the offline mode is a bit limited.
What I love in the new honeycomb is the Chrome Browser, so I think you can fit ChromeOS onto Android and you run it within Android to get the benefits of Cloud computing, when needs be.
Quite exciting times for android, I can see 3.1 or 3.2 which will probably classed as honeycomb coming to Android Phones
DJ_Steve is the man! Got that Honeycomb 3.1 running on my streak thanks to him and Hellzya! This really makes the device much sexier. The density issue is small for me since I don't have a problem reading small print, but it doesn't work for my dad at all.. luckily most web browsers support a zoom feature as that is the primary reason we have the tab. I have no questions... I'm a noob yes... but only to these boards. Not to rooting or anything like that. I love android... hell even jailbroke a few ipods. I'm just not a programmer or anything like that. If I were I wouldn't hesitate to offer help for all this beautiful android hacking.
keith.valdez said:
DJ_Steve is the man! Got that Honeycomb 3.1 running on my streak thanks to him and Hellzya! This really makes the device much sexier. The density issue is small for me since I don't have a problem reading small print, but it doesn't work for my dad at all.. luckily most web browsers support a zoom feature as that is the primary reason we have the tab. I have no questions... I'm a noob yes... but only to these boards. Not to rooting or anything like that. I love android... hell even jailbroke a few ipods. I'm just not a programmer or anything like that. If I were I wouldn't hesitate to offer help for all this beautiful android hacking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a HoneycomB theme running on my HD2 and love it. It's actually a Gingerbread/CM7 ROM and CM7 is pure excellence. Android and CM7 is heaven
MartyLK said:
I have a HoneycomB theme running on my HD2 and love it. It's actually a Gingerbread/CM7 ROM and CM7 is pure excellence. Android and CM7 is heaven
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have CM7 on my Optimus v. I LOVE THIS THING. It's made everything about this phone, especially the battery life, better. Rooting is fun. lol. GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKK OOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUTTTTTTT!!!
HoneyComb is awesome!!!!
Yeah,honeycomb is awesome.Only problem is that Google decided to become [email protected]*ckers on the matter and don't release the damn source code so that it could be ported to phones.Yes,Ice Cream Sandwich will have Honeycomb's features and is near to be released,but is it the spirit of XDA to wait for official stuff?Nah,I don't think so.
Come on Google,Android is supposed to be open.I don't want to buy a tablet.Not yet at least,I don't like the Tegra 2(The Exynos on my Galaxy S II makes Tegra 2 devices look like cheap toys,that's why ).And when the Tegra 3 will be out,Ice Cream Sandwich will be out too.
tolis626 said:
Yeah,honeycomb is awesome.Only problem is that Google decided to become [email protected]*ckers on the matter and don't release the damn source code so that it could be ported to phones.Yes,Ice Cream Sandwich will have Honeycomb's features and is near to be released,but is it the spirit of XDA to wait for official stuff?Nah,I don't think so.
Come on Google,Android is supposed to be open.I don't want to buy a tablet.Not yet at least,I don't like the Tegra 2(The Exynos on my Galaxy S II makes Tegra 2 devices look like cheap toys,that's why ).And when the Tegra 3 will be out,Ice Cream Sandwich will be out too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why wait? Have some HC goodness with a GB-CM7 HC themed ROM.
I love the way youtube looks on HC. I just wish more apps worked on it. I many of my favorite apps crash on me in HC, but they aren't things I can't live without. Besides, whatever doesn't run there typically does on the phone so I still get my apps one way or another. One day we will have android installed in our brains and I will have to root myself.
Here's some quotes from tonight's/today's press conference:
"Galaxy Nexus has no buttons and the physical / capacitive keys have been turned into 'virtual buttons' within the OS"
"The hardware works in concert with the OS. They were designed to work together."
"Android 4.0 ICS is "specifically designed" to work with 720p as its native resolution."
So, since the SGS2 has physical/capacitive buttons, wasn't designed to work with the OS, and doesn't support 720p, what makes us think it will (officially) get ICS?
You do point some vaild points in not getting it officially. But we could always tweak the source code to get in unofficially anyways. Software is software, a text file, it's not ike hardware where you have to change a resistor or something.
ANyways I don't think samsung will not deliver us ICS, they might simply just tweak it for us to work.
You honestly believe every device in near future will have no physical buttons ? and ICS will be limited only to high end devices ?
If 720p is going to be standard, that makes it really hard to do phones with smaller size screens though.
I wonder whats going to happen to ui customization. Is it going to be purer Google now?
see: SGS2 and ICS
ghost77 said:
You honestly believe every device in near future will have no physical buttons ? and ICS will be limited only to high end devices ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't shoot the messenger. The quotes are from Google execs. I have no idea what the answers to your questions are but if you take what was said literally then the issue of ICS on legacy devices remains to be answered. That's why I brought it up for discussion. 45% of Android devices are still running Froyo so limiting ICS to specific devices doesn't seem out of the question. And based on the resources required by the OS, there has to be a line drawn somewhere anyway. Hell, the HTC Desire barely got GB.
tonz22 said:
see: SGS2 and ICS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude that was fake.
And he said "natively using 1280xwhatever". Doesn't mean it is the "only" display. It's coming to legacy ones. Stop worrying. Remember Nexus S from ebay?
And man, ice cream is like a derivative of Touchwiz. Good thing I started with samsung. LOL.
Sorry to say this but do you really thing Samsung will bring ICS as-it-is?
I mean I hope Samsung does not bring ICS as it-is, since there is HUGE difference between SGS launchers, UI and all other stuff compared to original Gingerbread already.
I really did not find ICS as "change the world" thing, but least, it is something new
krazykat said:
Dude that was fake.
And he said "natively using 1280xwhatever". Doesn't mean it is the "only" display. It's coming to legacy ones. Stop worrying. Remember Nexus S from ebay?
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have people forgotten this works on tablets too? ie, Differing screen sizes?
krazykat said:
And man, ice cream is like a derivative of Touchwiz. Good thing I started with samsung. LOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will cm8/9 be ICS or is ICS cm8/9?
Ian
sent from my ereader
krazykat said:
Dude that was fake.
And he said "natively using 1280xwhatever". Doesn't mean it is the "only" display. It's coming to legacy ones. Stop worrying. Remember Nexus S from ebay?
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have people forgotten this works on tablets too? ie, Differing screen sizes?
Well, now that the SDK has arrived..i bet the devs are getting to work
already confirmed by Google..
ICS confirmation on Nexus S and Gingerbread devices
kikoexe said:
already confirmed by Google..
ICS confirmation on Nexus S and Gingerbread devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there you have it.
ianPhillips1 said:
Will cm8/9 be ICS or is ICS cm8/9?
Ian
sent from my ereader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM9 will be ICS.
kikoexe said:
already confirmed by Google..
ICS confirmation on Nexus S and Gingerbread devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, they also said support for "18 months" at Gingerbread event (I know some devices who didn't follow this statement after it was said).
W&S, but maybe Samsung will use the Nexus Prime's OS as a selling point.
Check out the new nexus Video really cool
Google Android Ice cream Sandwich unveiled
looks like Google has worked/stole a few ideas from samsung
Apparently Google + has hangouts/video so I guess thats why they are taking video call out of google talk, maybe integrating with google +
I dont see, Any reason Galaxy S II wont get ICS Update .... !!!
Galaxy Nexus Hardware wise similar to Galaxy S II ... Only Screen Resolution and Virtual Button is the diff.
However, That does not mean, GS II wont get it ... Stop thinking that we wont be having it...
Start thinking that , how much of ICS Feature sammy will give us...thats more inp.
BarryH_GEG said:
Here's some quotes from tonight's/today's press conference:
"Galaxy Nexus has no buttons and the physical / capacitive keys have been turned into 'virtual buttons' within the OS"
"The hardware works in concert with the OS. They were designed to work together."
"Android 4.0 ICS is "specifically designed" to work with 720p as its native resolution."
So, since the SGS2 has physical/capacitive buttons, wasn't designed to work with the OS, and doesn't support 720p, what makes us think it will (officially) get ICS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is marketing talk for Galaxy Nexus, you cannot draw the conclusion that it won't support older units or smaller displays from this.
Especially since Google said today that Nexus S will get ice cream...
nexus s is inferior to galaxy s according to HW side.. soo galaxy s II will obviously get ICS ..samsung wont make a mistake like not providing their best selling device getting ICS..
if they dont provide the devs will make us one.. coz there're 10million s2 users out there..
and all the brightest developers own a s2 coz this is simply the best phone
MY FAULT I POSTED THE WRONG VIDEO! I mean, seriously? Is there any need at this point in time? Will there be any hardware that can even run it by this fall or summer aside from maaaaaybe the Galaxy S 3? I dont understand it. Sometimes I feel like google should just keep all their OS development in the closet for at least 1.5-2 years at a time. 1 year minimum. Then do a controlled release with a absolutely bug-free platform. Im already seeing and feeling the gadget fatigue setting in. For christs sake a friend of mine just picked up a set of iPhone 3g's for free for his whole family like a year ago! And they are still liking them! I just dont think it makes sense to keep flooding the market so hard with devices and devices. But then again, that seems to be the correct formula for going up against the all-mighty fruit company. idk. This is great for developers, bad for consumers i guess. But im sure you all know that. Im just ranting.
THE NEWS ABOUT IT APPEARS IN THE BEGINNING OF THE VIDEO!!!!
tazbo28 said:
I mean, seriously? Is there any need at this point in time? Will there be any hardware that can even run it by this fall or summer aside from maaaaaybe the Galaxy S 3? I dont understand it. Sometimes I feel like google should just keep all their OS development in the closet for at least 1.5-2 years at a time. 1 year minimum. Then do a controlled release with a absolutely bug-free platform. Im already seeing and feeling the gadget fatigue setting in. For christs sake a friend of mine just picked up a set of iPhone 3g's for free for his whole family like a year ago! And they are still liking them! I just dont think it makes sense to keep flooding the market so hard with devices and devices. But then again, that seems to be the correct formula for going up against the all-mighty fruit company. idk. This is great for developers, bad for consumers i guess. But im sure you all know that. Im just ranting.
The news about it appears in the beginning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why would you make a thread about android and link it to a video about iPad and Sony's new handheld? Troll
Bline's Iced Out Supersonic... If anyone helps you out click THANKS!!!
Problem fixed.
tazbo28 said:
Well it was the first information I have heard about it, and I just happen to have xda open in another tab so... Did you even watch the video? Also did you even read what I said directly above the video? Seems like we know who the REAL troll is here. I own an Infuse btw so wtf dude? Srsly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not starting **** I was seriously asking a question. Nowhere in the video did it say anything about 5.0
Bline's Iced Out Supersonic... If anyone helps you out click THANKS!!!
bline007 said:
Not starting **** I was seriously asking a question. Nowhere in the video did it say anything about 5.0
Bline's Iced Out Supersonic... If anyone helps you out click THANKS!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Youtube had showed the wrong video in the player when I watched it. The title in youtube as well as the share link was for a completely different video. Its my ffault obviously for not checking that the video was the right one before posting. My bad.
tazbo28 said:
Youtube had showed the wrong video in the player when I watched it. The title in youtube as well as the share link was for a completely different video. Its my ffault obviously for not checking that the video was the right one before posting. My bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries. Take care
Bline's Iced Out Supersonic... If anyone helps you out click THANKS!!!
Many of us still are using gingerbread in our devices and even some of them are shipped with froyo on it!
Meanwhile ICS isn't even finished perfectly yet so I don't understand why they shouldn't continue developing ICS before even starting Jelly bean...
I say go.
I think its a great idea. I not going to complain about more and new features. I also LOVE the feeling on an major android upgrade. And as for flooding the market with phones, Its fantastic because it makes companies compete to give you the best product. In the end we WIN!!!!!!!!!!.
This is absolutely awesome.
jelly bean is going to kill IOS !
I don't like google releasing a new version of O/S with less than one year gap. It's just my opinion though.
bransyeah said:
Many of us still are using gingerbread in our devices and even some of them are shipped with froyo on it!
Meanwhile ICS isn't even finished perfectly yet so I don't understand why they shouldn't continue developing ICS before even starting Jelly bean...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This statement makes no sense whatsoever. Continue developing ICS before starting jellybean? Do you even understand what a software version is? ICS is Android. Jellybean will still be android. As Android gets updated, and enough changes get made to the software, that is when they decide to change a name. So in all actuality, jellybean is ICS that has been developed further.......
Umm.. Haven't even got ICS yet and rumors about 5.0 ? Duh! this makes me jealous and frustrate!
Google seems to be restless. Remember when Honeycomb was released, they announced ICS at the same time! We are developing with 3.1 in mind and can't even think of exclusively using newer features to Android 4.x because of the major lag in new devices.
This isn't good for developers, it just gives us more headaches to control the fragments.
.
Thread moved to proper section
This makes absolutely zero sense for them to do this.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
I agree that it would be too soon to relewse a new is just recently after ice came out and with only 1% of phones using ice right now. They should prioritize updating tlthe rest of the phones to ice and ironing out and building that os to recognition instead of rolling out something new. It would totally make ice purposeless in my eyes and a waste. I know technology is ever expanding but seems its expanding too quick to anyone to enjoy it long enough to stick to one thing.
From what I heard its for tablets right ? So basically this is like honeycomb something meant for the tablet community . If its for mobiles then this is a very bad thing ,I mean seriously how many devices come with ICS now ? 5 ?
Dark69Slayer said:
From what I heard its for tablets right ? So basically this is like honeycomb something meant for the tablet community . If its for mobiles then this is a very bad thing ,I mean seriously how many devices come with ICS now ? 5 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its going to be for phones and tabs its going to be an overlay capable device for PC s which in my opinion pretty cool. Especially if u like Linux already. And were r not talking about a release for at least 6 months. Everything is just hear say for now
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If 5.0 comes out before 2013, Google is stupider than I thought.
Sent from my SGH-I897
My whole thing about it is this, how do you explain to people who are still on Froyo, this is something new and great and you should use it! Their devices are supported by the manufacturer. If the manufacturer (like 3 main ones) dont keep up with the upgrade schedule with all their onslaught of devices, then whats the point?
I feel as though Android is being developed so rapidly that it seems as though they dont even care about what devices are out, or which ones "matter" to the market more. Its all about development for them. (which isnt necessarily bad) And for manufacturers, its all about flood flood flood the market with every new spec technology they can in order to not accidentally fall behind Apple. This is the honest to goodness truth i fear!!
Companies are trying their absolute best to make certain that they dont get caught by surprise with some Apple super device---so they keep putting out a new device the instant they make a little headway in specs. They are too afraid of letting the market settle for longer than 3 months!! For fear that Apple will announce a launch all of the sudden and bring out a 1080p hex core smartphone with 20 gb of ram and 128 gb of hard disk. lol! Its really starting to piss me off. Its starting to become a childish game of "oh we did/have that already, its not new."
These companies really have to let the market catch its breath. I mean here in the U.S. people are still trying to fight their way out of this recession, and yet Samsung and Android expect me to buy a Galaxy Nexus since its the ONLY device with ICS! Indirectly though it may be, its still frusterating as hell. I say 1 year, minimum. Dont tell people about it in the news, dont leak anything, and dont throw it on devices unless it really makes a big difference-or after one year! I mean, google will always have their ad revenue to sit on. So I really dont understand the rush to release. ---rant complete---