Perhaps I'm being naive, but I was thinking of starting a petition or something regarding the standard two year contract cell phone company's require in order to get a discount on new equipment.
What gave me the idea is, my brother got an HTC MyTouch with Android 1.6 about a year ago, and I recently got an EVO running 2.2. I've started to notice a high percentage of apps I recommend to him turn out to only run on 2.1 and higher.
He is not eligible for a discounted upgrade until July. Seem's to me if these companies are going to lock us in, they should guarantee that they will update the phone's OS for the same amount of time, assuming updates exist.
I realize most people will think, "good luck with that", and for good reason. Some people might not upgrade if their current phones are up to date.
I understand when you buy a new computer, you don't get a free upgrade to the next version of the OS. But you also don't get locked into a two year contract!
But this seems along the same lines as being charged 20 cents for each text. Actually, worse, since you can choose to not use text messaging. This seems even more of an issue now that they've increased their ETF's.
Perhaps a big enough response would motivate some politician to look into this. I have no idea where to start. Facebook? Twitter?
leebo said:
Perhaps I'm being naive, but I was thinking of starting a petition or something regarding the standard two year contract cell phone company's require in order to get a discount on new equipment.
What gave me the idea is, my brother got an HTC MyTouch with Android 1.6 about a year ago, and I recently got an EVO running 2.2. I've started to notice a high percentage of apps I recommend to him turn out to only run on 2.1 and higher.
He is not eligible for a discounted upgrade until July. Seem's to me if these companies are going to lock us in, they should guarantee that they will update the phone's OS for the same amount of time, assuming updates exist.
I realize most people will think, "good luck with that", and for good reason. Some people might not upgrade if their current phones are up to date.
I understand when you buy a new computer, you don't get a free upgrade to the next version of the OS. But you also don't get locked into a two year contract!
But this seems along the same lines as being charged 20 cents for each text. Actually, worse, since you can choose to not use text messaging. This seems even more of an issue now that they've increased their ETF's.
Perhaps a big enough response would motivate some politician to look into this. I have no idea where to start. Facebook? Twitter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you pay for internet service and get a free netbook they do not promise additional updates or anything of that nature and the same goes for phones. A company like HTC may not be able to handle the workload of their smaller entry level phones when they are now putting real phones on the market. if you want your mytouch updated root the phone. simple and its not like those things are even worth selling anymore anyway.
If you buy a netbook it's yours, you aren't required to sign two years of your life away. And it's not HTC who's requiring you to sign, it's the cell providers.
If you're happy with no updates, fine. At least Sprint seems to believe there are people who feel as I do, they give you a discount after only one year.
I don't think it's too much to ask for. Once they make the decision not to provide OS updates, they should offer a discounted new phone, or let you out of your contract.
z33dev33l said:
If you pay for internet service and get a free netbook they do not promise additional updates or anything of that nature and the same goes for phones. A company like HTC may not be able to handle the workload of their smaller entry level phones when they are now putting real phones on the market. if you want your mytouch updated root the phone. simple and its not like those things are even worth selling anymore anyway.
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Click to collapse
Can't really compare that... you don't need to void the netbook's warranty to upgrade the OS.
leebo said:
If you buy a netbook it's yours, you aren't required to sign two years of your life away. And it's not HTC who's requiring you to sign, it's the cell providers.
If you're happy with no updates, fine. At least Sprint seems to believe there are people who feel as I do, they give you a discount after only one year.
I don't think it's too much to ask for. Once they make the decision not to provide OS updates, they should offer a discounted new phone, or let you out of your contract.
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Click to collapse
When did T-Mobile decided not to update the phone? Or better yet, when did T-Mobile announce that they will not be updating that particular phone? Great things come to those with patience.
leebo said:
If you buy a netbook it's yours, you aren't required to sign two years of your life away. And it's not HTC who's requiring you to sign, it's the cell providers.[//quote]
and if you buy the phone you're not required to sign a two year contract either- you CHOOSE the two year contract in order to have the carrier chip in to the purchase price.
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I stand corrected. Buy the phone at a "discount", sign up for two years at $2160 (at least), and don't complain that we aren't going to provide OS updates for the same two years.
Generations X and Y, meet generation bend over.
Its also not always the carrier who isnt updating. Its the manufacturer of the phone. It is HTC, Motorola and Samsung that first have to make the upgrade work with whatever interface and hardware they have on there phones then the carrier can upgrade their stuff. After so long its just not worth working on those older phones because they are having breakthroughs on the newer ones. The market is expanding rapidly right now and theres going to be a lot of models left in the dust. Just my opinion.
Related
Do you think when you buy a porsche or a ferrari and you can not drive because the wheel fell of or the windshield blew off in the middle of nowhere the factory tells you: oh sorry this a new model, you keep testing it and maybe if we get enough complaints we will fix it. NO!
When you pay top dollar you get a device that works out of the box,period.
HTC is using us as their testers, but makes us pay a 1000$ for it and lose our time perfecting a half-product they placed on the market before it should be released, plus the customer service treats us as idiots and lies directly : oh we got a lot of good feedback...(yeah right like I was going to call them to say how good a device is), or we dont know anything about a gps lag....f*uck you sit in the car a take a drive idiot!!
The last time I bought HTC!
Getting a nokia. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
So, what you're saying is HTC is just like Windows? ;-)
i agree htc brings out to many high tech phones.with a very high price tag.but there are always major bugs.no kinda of exception for a $900 usd phone that all of sudden does't have 3g.
now most us owners lost a good $300 of the price in less than a month because it doesn't support 3g.htc doesn't even say there working on a new radio.
i know apple brings out a new product every 90 days,at least they listen and stay with product updates.
zex11 said:
Do you think when you buy a porsche or a ferrari and you can not drive because the wheel fell of or the windshield blew off in the middle of nowhere the factory tells you: oh sorry this a new model, you keep testing it and maybe if we get enough complaints we will fix it. NO!
When you pay top dollar you get a device that works out of the box,period.
HTC is using us as their testers, but makes us pay a 1000$ for it and lose our time perfecting a half-product they placed on the market before it should be released, plus the customer service treats us as idiots and lies directly : oh we got a lot of good feedback...(yeah right like I was going to call them to say how good a device is), or we dont know anything about a gps lag....f*uck you sit in the car a take a drive idiot!!
The last time I bought HTC!
Getting a nokia. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh come on. Everyone knows that if you are an early adopter, things never work quite as they ought to. Happens with every major tech release. It shouldn't but it does.
The reality is that the majority of features on the TP work just fine and fortunately thanks to the geniuses on this forum, the GPS lag has been all but eliminated. No doubt at some point (provided we press HTC), a fix will be released.
So when you get your Nokia, you should look forward to a whole different set of problems - no platform is even close to perfect.
iboogey99 said:
i agree htc brings out to many high tech phones.with a very high price tag.but there are always major bugs.no kinda of exception for a $900 usd phone that all of sudden does't have 3g.
now most us owners lost a good $300 of the price in less than a month because it doesn't support 3g.htc doesn't even say there working on a new radio.
i know apple brings out a new product every 90 days,at least they listen and stay with product updates.
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Click to collapse
This post I really can't agree with, when they released it they never intended it for North American sale, and you knew that when you bought it. Did you read the part in the specs where it said UMTS 900/2100? If you did, you should've said "hey, this doesn't work with 3G on AT&T... I'm not going to buy it." Why don't we blame Toyota for their Corolla not running on diesel? Oh yeah, because it was never meant to.
When I got my N95, the battery life was terrible, it kept running out of memory and i had to use hacks to bypass their silly protection and install unsigned apps. I also had to use nemesis suite to hack the device and change the product code to prevent it from loosing Greek when I used Nokia's updater to upgrade the firmware, which cannot be downgraded and now, newer devices and latest firmwares cannot be hacked yet, so if you do buy one you won't be able to install unsigned apps.
At least with HTCs we have this magnificent community to create custom ROMs and rectify most problems. Just my .2 cents
Hands down...best $1100 I've spent in a long time. I knew going into it that I wouldn't have 3G here in the US. The advantages I have over my T-Mobile Wing (US HTC Phone) is countless. I have minimal glitches, but with all phones that do more than make calls, it is to be expected. I'll be a beta tester anytime for HTC!
i totally agree with the OP,in other hand if the devices were perfect we would not have XDA devs
what 1 must realize in todays competitive markets things get rushed out the door to make a buck ,hence why all devices will be never out of beta stage. there is 2 solutions for the problem; 1- stop buying new devices .2- learn to live with it.
well the thing is that HTC doesent even want to realize that their devices have flaws. And all the flaws are software related. In other words fixable. just look at the TyTn2 and the driver issues there. There still is no fix from HTC. And people here on the forum had to use drivers from the Diamond to fix it. HTC just keeps on making excuses like the HTC Pro was never ment to be a multimedia device when support is confronted with the fact that the TP plays video poorer that the Diamond. I know that the pro istn a multimedia device. But i expect that the hardware that i have paid alot of money for actually does what its supposed to. Why on earth shouldnt it? I love my TP, but HTC should reallt take care of their reputation..
faria said:
i totally agree with the OP,in other hand if the devices were perfect we would not have XDA devs
what 1 must realize in todays competitive markets things get rushed out the door to make a buck ,hence why all devices will be never out of beta stage. there is 2 solutions for the problem; 1- stop buying new devices .2- learn to live with it.
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Click to collapse
ey man nice to see you again here...
take care and hope everything will be nice for you and yours....
Cheers
I've been developing software for mobile devices for five years, and worked with hundreds of models of handset from Europe and North America. I'd rate HTC devices as "above average" in terms of quality. Nokia are neither better nor worse. Get the first Nokia models of a new series, you're in for some "fun".
I have a Nokia. The MP3 player causes the phone to reboot randomly. If I cross timezones, then when I get home, some birthdays in the calendar have moved to the wrong day. Sometimes, it suddenly stops working, saying that the "SIM Locked", and I can't make or receive calls until I reboot it. It's Orange branded, so the Nokia firmware update tool won't support it. Other than that, it works a treat...
I could give you a similar list of problems with other Nokia models, or Sony Ericssons, or Motorolas... and I wouldn't even consider a Samsung, NEC or LG.
And I suspect that anyone buying a Ferrari for the reliability will be sorely disappointed.
Kevven said:
well the thing is that HTC doesent even want to realize that their devices have flaws. And all the flaws are software related. In other words fixable. just look at the TyTn2 and the driver issues there. There still is no fix from HTC. And people here on the forum had to use drivers from the Diamond to fix it. HTC just keeps on making excuses like the HTC Pro was never ment to be a multimedia device when support is confronted with the fact that the TP plays video poorer that the Diamond. I know that the pro istn a multimedia device. But i expect that the hardware that i have paid alot of money for actually does what its supposed to. Why on earth shouldnt it? I love my TP, but HTC should reallt take care of their reputation..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and they will never fix that issue because their attention is in the new devices...sad but true.
@jcespi2005
thanks! and the same to you and yours.nice to see you here
It seems to me that what's getting under your skin the most is that customer service is saying their aren't serious problems, and that the phone is primarily working as intended.
Well, thats their job. Have you not ever seen a CSC in person at a corporate office? It's a bunch of highschool grads who don't know anything about anything that just talk nice, create a ticket in whatever helpdesk software they are using, and forward it or close it.
Just call in, politely state your problem, and if they get enough calls logged, development takes notice and things get fixed.
I think what you need more than an $1100 phone, is a $20.00 script for Xanax. Best of luck with Nokia though.
Mobile phone manufacturer in 'not everything works properly' shocker.
Our brand new Audi had a digital display that was on the blink from the moment we bought it. And sometimes the front windows would lower themselves 6 inches after you'd locked the car and walked away. Lots of other owners had the same thing. Think Audi fixed it? Fixed any of them? The replacement Porsche (I'm not showing off here by the way) has an lumpy idle, unreliable horn and the steering pulls harshly to the left. Fixes from Porsche? As if.
In common with a previous poster, my experience with Nokias was far more frustrating than with HTC. And if you want diabolical, allow me a few hours to relate my experience of being the fairly happy owner of a Sony Ericsson P800 even happier with the P900 and then to be floored by the abomination that was the P910. Never never again.
Yes mobile phone manufacturers are guilty of getting things wrong, but in that knowlege, I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.
rb14 said:
I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.
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Click to collapse
I second that statement!
rb14 said:
Mobile phone manufacturer in 'not everything works properly' shocker.
Our brand new Audi had a digital display that was on the blink from the moment we bought it. And sometimes the front windows would lower themselves 6 inches after you'd locked the car and walked away. Lots of other owners had the same thing. Think Audi fixed it? Fixed any of them? The replacement Porsche (I'm not showing off here by the way) has an lumpy idle, unreliable horn and the steering pulls harshly to the left. Fixes from Porsche? As if.
In common with a previous poster, my experience with Nokias was far more frustrating than with HTC. And if you want diabolical, allow me a few hours to relate my experience of being the fairly happy owner of a Sony Ericsson P800 even happier with the P900 and then to be floored by the abomination that was the P910. Never never again.
Yes mobile phone manufacturers are guilty of getting things wrong, but in that knowlege, I'm just happy I own an HTC and know about this forum.
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Click to collapse
Amen to that brother. While I may not own the Touch Pro, Fuze, or whatever the hell you feel like calling it, I know for me personally, HTC has put out some of the best phones I've ever used. I remember way back when, I was in love the Moto Razr (ew, I know) but then I laid eyes on the good ol' boy that was the Cingular 8125 aka the Wizard. I've been hooked on HTC ever since. Lets face it, if you try to go back to a cheesy ass LG or Samsung phone, you're going to be disappointed as all hell. They just don't compare to the customizable nature of the WinMo HTC devices. Granted pretty much all of HTC phones have had (and still have) their share of issues, but lets get real here, they are simply the ****. I've had my 8525 since its release and there's no way I'd switch to the X1 for example. SE?? Would you rather have a WinMo rookie in SE or the season veteran that is HTC? I don't know about you guys, but I like experience.
thunda_chunky said:
I don't know about you guys, but I like experience.
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Click to collapse
experience in what? deploying bugs?
@zex11 I agree with you.. but we don't have so many alternatives in WM area.
and nokia is not the solution..
Theutus said:
I think what you need more than an $1100 phone, is a $20.00 script for Xanax. Best of luck with Nokia though.
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Click to collapse
Put this in my sig, legendary. haha
Hopefully when Microsoft gets off their lazy asses and overhauls the OS, it will be easier for the manufactures to make a reliable device.
hi all,
i am about to get a new phone. this is one i am interested in. my question is do you think it is worth it or should i go for the tilit 2? if i buy the fuze, i do not have to extend my contract. although i would with the tilt2. according the device database, the internals are identical, the tilt however does come with 6.5. although i know i can get that here also. just thought i could get some input from all you other lucky fuze owners out there. thanks, i appreciate it.
Greg
turnman34 said:
hi all,
i am about to get a new phone. this is one i am interested in. my question is do you think it is worth it or should i go for the tilit 2? if i buy the fuze, i do not have to extend my contract. although i would with the tilt2. according the device database, the internals are identical, the tilt however does come with 6.5. although i know i can get that here also. just thought i could get some input from all you other lucky fuze owners out there. thanks, i appreciate it.
Greg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just got mine and haven't stopped modding it since, lol
First I'd have to say is play with both devices first before you make your final decision, it helps to know what you're getting with both. Next is, you can get 6.5 on both as another person has said, thought it doesn't have the official feeling, it works for the most part (think each 6.5 rom comes with its share of bugs and what not). Regarding the issue of the contract, I don't see what's so bad about extending your contract if you're going to get a device that you will be content with for a while ( the 2 year being locked in doesn't seem that much of a fuss to me since you'd most likely be with them till it's time to renew again). The only down side I see with contracts is the subsidy on phones that comes with it when you renew. If you play with both devices, are leaning towards the Tilt 2, and don't have any future plans for a new phone, then I'd say go with the Tilt 2, the bigger screen and official 6.5 I think would be worth it. But if you think AT&T might get some killer phones within 2 years (which looks like to be the booming thing right now seeing all these Andoird, WinMo, smartphones exploding on every carrier), I'd say get the Fuze, and wait till you get that phone you really like later on.
Another interesting tidbit from the web:
What's the Holdup with Froyo Update? We'll explain...
AT&T is trying to fill the internal SD card with as much bloat as possible, it takes time to make sure the phone will run as crappy as possible.
AT&T and Samsung are both focusing most of their time and energy on their upcoming phones revealed at CES. Samsung is notorious for their slow updates, sometimes they don't even update their phones at all. And AT&T is slow at releasing updates because of having to put all of their bloatware in there
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
The same thing that's been taking so long for it to come out since Day 1. Safe to say I'll never buy another Samsung phone again. Can't wait for the Motorola Atrix 4G to come out. Finally I'll be able to experience Android at it's fullest.
Actually.... http://androidspin.com/2011/01/12/b...samsung-is-holding-the-android-world-hostage/
The full post is in android central in the vibrant section.
Its not Samsung!!!.. 2.2 is out in the rest of the world!! its AT&T and T-mobile.. that slow things down. Canada's Captivate got the 2.2 update... and the phone just came out their a month ago and the phone is the same as the USA Captivate.... and the other Samsung S phones got the update some over 2 months ago...
devho said:
The same **** that's been taking so long for it to come out since Day 1. Safe to say I'll never buy another Samsung phone again. Can't wait for the Motorola Atrix 4G to come out. Finally I'll be able to experience Android at it's fullest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean motoblur and a locked bootloader?
New Captivate noob....
Hello All! I have just ordered my new phone from Amazon and should receive it tomorrow. I hope to figure out how to use it as a modem for my Macbook while deployed for some military training. I have been reading as much as I possibly can about this phone and modifying it and feel like I'm trying to get a drink of water from an open fire hydrant....SO MUCH INFO !! I really appreciate the fact that you guys seem to be helpful and am looking forward to "moding" my new phone. I guess my first question is this: Is it possible to use this phone as an access to the internet for my Macbook laptop? I love this computer but didn't want the iphone 'cause it ain't apple's business (or AT&T's) with what I do with it and I don't like "Big Brother" telling me I can't put certain stuff on it. So, is there an app for using the Captivate as a modem for a Mac? Thanks and I'll deploy soon so hope to get this done by then.
bellssn690 said:
Hello All! I have just ordered my new phone from Amazon and should receive it tomorrow. I hope to figure out how to use it as a modem for my Macbook while deployed for some military training. I have been reading as much as I possibly can about this phone and modifying it and feel like I'm trying to get a drink of water from an open fire hydrant....SO MUCH INFO !! I really appreciate the fact that you guys seem to be helpful and am looking forward to "moding" my new phone. I guess my first question is this: Is it possible to use this phone as an access to the internet for my Macbook laptop? I love this computer but didn't want the iphone 'cause it ain't apple's business (or AT&T's) with what I do with it and I don't like "Big Brother" telling me I can't put certain stuff on it. So, is there an app for using the Captivate as a modem for a Mac? Thanks and I'll deploy soon so hope to get this done by then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can either:
-Pay more per month (I think it's $10)
-Install a custom ROM and do it for free
But yes, you can use it as a hotspot for a laptop.
liquid blue said:
Actually.... http://androidspin.com/2011/01/12/b...samsung-is-holding-the-android-world-hostage/
The full post is in android central in the vibrant section.
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Click to collapse
I read this earlier today on phandroid. It certainly sounds plausible, and it wouldn't surprise me at all. I sent a tweet to GalaxySSupport about it - can't wait to see what they say about it.
bellssn690 said:
Hello All! I have just ordered my new phone from Amazon and should receive it tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me know if this actually happens. I tried, twice, to order a Captivate from AmazonWireless using their 2-day shipping option. When they failed the first time they promised to send it overnight. That one showed up 6 days later and was refused since I had already gone and bought one on sale at Radio Shack. They suck.
Funny reading that article - they make it sound as though the delay is being blamed on the z4root app. seriously? no matter what they do to the next vers. of android. we will root it
Bottom line is these updates are an extremely low priority for Samsung. Dev's here at XDA put together roms in a matter of days and they do it by hacking apart official (or leaked) software from other phones. Imagine if they had access to the driver and kernel source code like Samsung does? Imagine if they were the people who built the hardware and knew all the ins and outs of it? I realize that Samsung has to test their updates a LOT more than dev's here (where we are often the testers), but its been 6 months since the phone's release and over a year since Froyo's release. Not to mention that Samsung has an IT team whereas dev's here are usually 1 person working in their spare time.
Also I wanted to mention that I don't think that AT&T adds the bloatware themselves; I believe Samsung does it according to AT&T's wishes. The few leaked froyo updates we got for the captivate were AT&Tified with bloat and all. Since those were leaks and not nearly done, there is no way they went to AT&T to add in the bloat. Now, that doesn't mean AT&T can't delay the process. I'd imagine they get a chance to test any firmware Samsung gives them and they can reject it back Samsung, wasting more time.
One last point...Why aren't Android versions more independant of drivers and software? When I upgraded Windows from Vista to 7, everything worked right out of the box. It seems like Samsung would have to switch the Android base, fix a few things, test and release? I have no idea why these updates are so complicated that they should take months to complete...
/rant
TheSopranos16 said:
One last point...Why aren't Android versions more independant of drivers and software? When I upgraded Windows from Vista to 7, everything worked right out of the box. It seems like Samsung would have to switch the Android base, fix a few things, test and release? I have no idea why these updates are so complicated that they should take months to complete...
/rant
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Click to collapse
This is what baffles me. Windows runs on all kinds of different hardware configurations with hardware components from hundreds of different manufacturers. Are these phones so very different that each brand and model requires its own specific variant of Android? Isn't that the complete opposite of what Google hoped to accomplish with Android?
I also don't think AT$T do much, if any, of the actual device testing themselves. I think they simply state their demands to the individual manufacturers as far as what bloatware they want on the phone (and what features they prefer to be crippled). They may develop the bloatware, but the OS is the device manufacturer's responsibility. That said, AT$T is just as culpable for the delay of Froyo since they can bring the pressure to bear to get it done if they really wanted to.
Miami_Son said:
This is what baffles me. Windows runs on all kinds of different hardware configurations with hardware components from hundreds of different manufacturers. Are these phones so very different that each brand and model requires its own specific variant of Android? Isn't that the complete opposite of what Google hoped to accomplish with Android?
I also don't think AT$T do much, if any, of the actual device testing themselves. I think they simply state their demands to the individual manufacturers as far as what bloatware they want on the phone (and what features they prefer to be crippled). They may develop the bloatware, but the OS is the device manufacturer's responsibility. That said, AT$T is just as culpable for the delay of Froyo since they can bring the pressure to bear to get it done if they really wanted to.
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Click to collapse
MS have hardware requirements, so they know it will run when they release an update. But at&t stopped htc from giving out an update to the fuze so they could sell the tilt 2 to more people
From a phone
Its probably been said but it's not $am$ung anymore, its AT$T. They have 2.2 but they are "testing" (filling it with bloatware).
Sent from my Galaxy S Captivate...still no Froyo...
To be honest, now that Roger's release Froyo for their Captivate, there is no point to continue to wait for the AT&T release. The Roger's version even has WiFi hotspot, tethering, and the option to install non-market apps out of the box. This is what I am running with a few tweaks here and there. No complaints.
I have come to the conclusion that I will not buy another branded handset from AT&T ever again. I also will probably not by a Samsung product again for a while as well.
The only reason I want a Stock Froyo release for the captivate is to get Samsung to release the GPL required kernel source. With this, our devs can make ROMS that are faster, and more stable. I am HOPING that the release of Rogers 2.2 firmware means that this source code release is imminent. Otherwise we may have to get involved with pestering Samsung to put the source out.
boborone said:
But at&t stopped htc from giving out an update to the fuze so they could sell the tilt 2 to more people
From a phone
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Click to collapse
I'm just going to post what was posted in response to this statement on another thread, just in the intrest of not spreading dis-information
Originally Posted by boborone
At&t stopped the 6.5 win mo update for the fuze so people would buy the tilt 2. Why should this be any different?
From a phone
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Not sure where you saw that. It was not a AT&T or HTC decision. Microsoft only allowed official WM 6.5 updates for phones with the "Windows" button on them. Since the Fuze had a "home" button, it did not qualify for WM 6.5. If AT&T had held it back, then other Raphael, Diamond, and/or Blackstone handsets (Verizon TP, etc) would have gotten WM 6.5. In fact none of the Raphael, Diamond, or Blackstone phones got WM 6.5.
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Click to collapse
boborone said:
MS have hardware requirements, so they know it will run when they release an update. But at&t stopped htc from giving out an update to the fuze so they could sell the tilt 2 to more people
From a phone
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jwood55812 said:
I'm just going to post what was posted in response to this statement on another thread, just in the intrest of not spreading dis-information
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the quote. I find it interesting that boborone admits that Microsoft has hardware requirements but doesn't realize that one of Microsoft's hardware requirements for WM 6.5 was that a 'Windows" button was required.
Honestly, I don't know if AT&T has ever blocked a software/firmware upgrade from a manufacturer in order to sell new phones, but I doubt they make enough money by blocking an update to a 1 year old phone to make any difference. As most people have 2 year contracts, they are not going to upgrade after only 1 year. The iPhone seems to be the notable exception to this, but by allowing iPhone users to upgrade to a new version at a discounted rate after 1 year, AT&T is losing more money than by keeping them on the their old iPhone for an extra 6-12 months. AT&T allows early upgrades in order to extend contracts before they expire and garner customer loyalty. Whether or not my 1 year old Fuze got WM 6.5 or not, I still waited 18 months before upgrading to get the extra discount and the availability of official (or un-official) WM 6.5 for my phone had no impact on my decision...it was all about the extra $50 discount.
In short, I don't think the availability (or lack there-of) of Froyo for the Captivate has anything to do with AT&T trying to make money by getting users to replace the Captivate with a phone that runs Froyo, especially since as of today, the only AT&T phone running Froyo is still the Aria which is a cheaper phone, and even when the Atrix/Infuze/Inspire are released, no Captivate owners (that purchased a Captivate with their new phone discount) will qualify for a new phone yet. Delaying or refusing an update to the Captivate (when other SGS phones are getting Froyo) is much more likely to cost AT&T in the long term as dissatisfied customers go to other carriers.
By far the most likely cause of the delay is exactly what has been said (you just need to read between the lines a little). Samsung said that the delay was due to "complexity issues" last week, and this week the delay is to ensure a "smooth upgrade." Those two pieces of information combined with all the reported upgrade problems on other SGS phones and Kies Mini frequently having issues recognizing that a phone is plugged in cause "complexity" and would result in an upgrade that is not "smooth" for the customers.
The Kies mini problems have to be addressed, and since the US is the only country that uses Kies mini, it only affects US carriers. For me, Kies mini only recognizes my phone about 10% of the time on a Windows XP machine. On my Windows 7 machine, Kies (full version 1.5.0.80) recognizes when my phone is plugged in 100% of the time (even when I do not select Kies for the connection).
Ok, it's quite clear android is the most popular phone OS on the market at the moment but I'm beginning to believe that some of their less customer friendly strategies are making the carriers greedy. Back in the day when I was using my original blackjack each time there was an update to Winmo I knew that within a couple weeks ATT would get it my way without fail. Ever since the G1 though there's a new tactic used of course to sell more phones. Basically they can release the same exact phone with a new version of an OS or maybe a small feature (e.g. front facing camera) and sell just as much as the original. I mean why would carriers want to update your phone for you when they could sell you the exact same phone back with the newest version of android which is likely just a palette swap of the previous version? The refusal of most carriers to update their devices kicked off hard even with the initial release of android. The G1 was essentially the same phone as the MT3g except with the amazing keyboard we all fell in love with. The mytouch released months later with the exact same specs (you can even run the exact same roms on them) and yet the mytouch got an update whereas the G didn't. When people asked T-mobile where their G1 update was T-mobile said that it was not possible to run live wallpapers on such a dated device. Ever since then time and time again carriers and OEMs have let us down not because they cant do it but because they can sell us another device if they won't. A big selling point in getting the behold 2 for me was the fact that it would receive every update according to samsung... They never even built the drivers... I was stuck with a phone with a terrible UI. It happens time and time again and now similar things seem to be happening to other OSes. Blackberry is running into the same kind of thing where that more or less never happened before and I'm not ruling windows phone out just yet but I fear with greedy carriers they may end up following suit as much as I hate to admit it. The OEMs and carriers greed is killing smartphones. I mean android is open source and free, if they want to put it on a toaster they can. How hard is it to update? Really? I mean I know there's some one man teams on XDA who can do it... Dont let smartphones die.
It's not Android. It's more Google's policies. I love Google, but they have to grow some balls and tell the manufacturers that in order to be able to release an Android phone with the Google Apps, they need to release updates in X amount of months maximum after an update is delivered and they must support a phone for at least 2 OS iterations.
Forget Apple. Look at Microsoft. Windows Phone 7 isn't really for me since I like to tinker with my phone, although occasionally I wish it wasn't such a time waster. It is a great OS though. Microsoft first of all tells manufacturers that they can include custom apps, but no custom interfaces (this will never happen with Android). Then, they release an upgrade and all the phones get it. I'll admit it's a little easier since all WP7 have mostly the same parts, and definitely the same Snapdragon CPU since that's all WP7 OS supports right now. But this can totally be done by Google. I think the market is over-saturated with Android phones right now. Choice is good, but I don't want to pick up a phone and then immediately have it deemed obsolete. I mean after a while, I just want to walk away. I love Android, but it is getting kind of ridiculous. Obviously, manufacturers won't listen to us. Google is more likely to. They need to get a hold on things.
I see where you're coming ffrom, but you have to remember that companies (all companies) are here to make money. That's it. Make money.
So they'll mmake phones with skins because they get some percentage back from the phone; granted they could offer a pure Google phone but you have to remember: we aren't fhe target audience.
These phones are made for the average consumer that has the default and maybe twitter and facebook.
Of course, there will always be good pure Google phone out there to snag. I just got the Nexus 1 and ill be using this for a long time.
Hey!! This is really a great thread. I am really very impressed with your conversation.
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
butch87402 said:
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
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Well, that's more a T-Mobile issue than an Android issue, but I feel your pain.
All carriers are interested in is selling contracts and phones. They don't really care about peoples experiences after that point. They certainly won't want to encourage people to hang on to the same devices for years, but i think they should obligated to support their phones for at least the duration of the warranty. Any software updates released within that period should be pushed out immediately.
Don't be anxious, when u check technology developments in the past 20 years or more. How can we tell the difference between technology innovation and hunger for money?
'Greedy' is the nature of us human beings and it give us more happy and distress.
It's not the carriers you need to be worried about. Android is a fantastic OS and I love it and have gotten into the inner workings of it lately, to realize one thing: Google drives this whole deal. And since Google makes 98% of its money off of its Adsense program, wouldn't you agree that they would like to maintain/build that as much as possible? The more Google knows about where you are, your likes and dislikes, what you search for, etc, the better they can facilitate their moneymaking process. Google Apps (Gapps) are the way they do this, and why they are not included in a 'real' open souce project. Think it's bad now? Wait till Honeycomb....I've been tweaking this for the past 3 weeks and you wouldn't believe the permission changes that are related to google. Little things that were Hardware processes before (alert me when near an open wifi) are now basically (alert google your location thru gps at all times.). Of course there are ways around it, but the avg. user won't know that. Just fyi.
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
xaccers said:
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
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Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
z33dev33l said:
Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
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You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
xaccers said:
You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
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Cant say I have much experience with Symbian devices but on Winmo, palm, and earlier blackberries I always got updates. Android has shown they dont need to maintain their devices to sale them and I believe that can have a negative impact on phones as a whole
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
xaccers said:
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
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It's not so much that they prevent it as it is that they dont even really suggest it. It's just like "Oh, btw heres this update. You dont have to put work forth to put it on your device but it's there if you want it. It's really the OEMs and carriers fault as I stated but the fact that android doesnt put something forth to at least suggest it is sad.
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
xaccers said:
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
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Never said I hated android. It's just second best now. Of course phones lose support over time but not before they even hit shelves. When the Galaxy S phones were coming out they were promised a fast update to 2.2. It only took T-mobile 6+ months of customers complaining for them to be the first to update it stateside. My old blackjack made by the exact same company was recieving its last update at the end of my contract a full two years later. The HTC touch did the same, hell even my PPC6800 would've had that not been where I started flashing roms. Android phones are burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit shelves and that is something new. I dont expect a phone to be supported forever but for them to stop support by the time it hits shelves is just sad.
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
xaccers said:
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
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Amen.
[10 char]
xaccers said:
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
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Thats funny because I just flashed my G1 back to stop and I cant access a ton of the apps... I said it was the fault of the carriers and OEMs though I do wish android would at least suggest updating. I mean of all the android devices out there what percent of them do you think actually receive updates through the service providers or OEMs?
are there no wp7 phones besides the trophy for verizon?
Not yet. They don't seem to care much about WP7. I'm more surprised that Sprint doesn't have any new ones, though.
Verizon, ha ha ha... They don't care for Windows Phones after the Kin incident; so they say. In my opinion MS should just drop Verizon period. I mean really I can't even get the update that keeps my Keyboard from disappearing because Verizon says that the update isn't significant enough but they turn around and release ever last Android update
Oh to be fair, they don't come anywhere near releasing every single Android update. My roommate's Droid - yes, the phone that Verizon marketed the hell out of - was one update behind when he put Cyanogen7 on it, and the official release is now two updates behind. It's only just reaching the end of the two-year contract though.
That's not to say they give a damn about WP7, because the evidence is pretty good that they don't, but they don't treat Android *that* much better. Screw 'em, the whole company sucks (I know, I tried them). Two years of their BS was 730 days too long.
GoodDayToDie said:
Oh to be fair, they don't come anywhere near releasing every single Android update. My roommate's Droid - yes, the phone that Verizon marketed the hell out of - was one update behind when he put Cyanogen7 on it, and the official release is now two updates behind. It's only just reaching the end of the two-year contract though.
That's not to say they give a damn about WP7, because the evidence is pretty good that they don't, but they don't treat Android *that* much better. Screw 'em, the whole company sucks (I know, I tried them). Two years of their BS was 730 days too long.
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You should know if you were a Android owner, your lucky to get 1 update to a newer version of software on any carrier, very few phones get 2-3 version upgrades. A 2 year old phone ? Good luck, after about 6 months your lucky to get anything.
It's one of the bigger problems with Android. Android is NOT Android if one person has 2.1 and the next person has 4.0 but, they are all called Android, right ?
If you have a Android device and you want to update it, Rooting it is the only way to go...because you wont get it from your carrer.
Some of the issues you don't have to deal with on WP7...