Related
Does that mean if you experience a problem and its rooted, they wouldn't care if you returned it?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
if they figure out if its rooted they wont return it if its stock they most likely wont figure out that its rooted just depends on how smart the perosn is
So you'd still have to unroot just incase?
I figured it being a straight up google phone, aosp and all, they would embrace the modding
I guess we still gots a ways to go before that happens
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
A_Flying_Fox said:
So you'd still have to unroot just incase?
I figured it being a straight up google phone, aosp and all, they would embrace the modding
I guess we still gots a ways to go before that happens
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google, yes. Samsung/Best Buy/hardware OEMs, no. Google doesn't deal with the consequences of someone bricking their phone by being stupid and the revenue loss from a warranty claim/exchange. That being said, HTC usually honored Nexus One warranties on things like hardware failures unrelated to rooting(i.e. power button fail).
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
unremarked said:
Google, yes. Samsung/Best Buy/hardware OEMs, no. Google doesn't deal with the consequences of someone bricking their phone by being stupid and the revenue loss from a warranty claim/exchange. That being said, HTC usually honored Nexus One warranties on things like hardware failures unrelated to rooting(i.e. power button fail).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't lived in Texas since 1983, so I can't speak directly for Texas, but in many jurisdictions, such as California (where I live) the warrantor has no choice but to honor the warranty on a hardware failure just because a software modification was made unless the warrantor can prove that the software mod caused the hardware failure.
Warranty law in many (most?) states in the US specifically allows for user modifications to a product not voiding the warranty unless said mod causes the failure. A common example is that a modification to your car with an aftermarket stereo system doesn't void the warranty on the drivetrain.
YMMV.
Personally I would unroot and re-lock before exchanging/returning, it's really not that hard (several threads discussing how), but I wouldn't stress over it either if I didn't. Best Buy's certainly not going to go digging into the phone's settings and software to see if you've rooted. They're going to turn it on to see if it works, and they're going to check it for physical damage, that's pretty much it.
Again, several threads already discussing this if you search for them...
distortedloop said:
I haven't lived in Texas since 1983, so I can't speak directly for Texas, but in many jurisdictions, such as California (where I live) the warrantor has no choice but to honor the warranty on a hardware failure just because a software modification was made unless the warrantor can prove that the software mod caused the hardware failure.
Warranty law in many (most?) states in the US specifically allows for user modifications to a product not voiding the warranty unless said mod causes the failure. A common example is that a modification to your car with an aftermarket stereo system doesn't void the warranty on the drivetrain.
YMMV.
Personally I would unroot and re-lock before exchanging/returning, it's really not that hard (several threads discussing how), but I wouldn't stress over it either if I didn't. Best Buy's certainly not going to go digging into the phone's settings and software to see if you've rooted. They're going to turn it on to see if it works, and they're going to check it for physical damage, that's pretty much it.
Again, several threads already discussing this if you search for them...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However, if someone does something like installs an improperly tuned or generally misuses a nitrous oxide/supercharged system which could directly lead to damage to the vehicle. I think that's a closer example to what folks typically do with a rooted devices than the car stereo. A slight digression and we could probably spend all day in "What if" scenarios.
But yeah, mate, that's my understanding and experience as well. If the warranty claim is for a hardware issue unrelated to the modified software, HTC(don't know about Samsung, but I'd imagine it'd be the same) generally honor the warranty. My response was to @A_Flying_Fox's question regarding the official support on modding, which I highly doubt we'll ever have from hardware manufacturers due to the aforementioned revenue loss from warranty claims/exchanges from folks being silly. Also I believe the one thing exempt from any warranty repair/most insurances is water damage.
When I lurked the Nexus One forums, I did see threads pop up regarding the warranty with one of three outcomes: Full repair with no questions asked, hardware repair with a $120 charge to replace motherboard(even if this was not the cause of the fault), or flatout refusal due to the language of the unlocked bootloader explicitly saying your warranty is now void. I'll point out here that the language on the Nexus S says your warranty MAY be void.
Like you, however, I'd recommend at least relocking the bootloader before returning the phone and/or sending it in for a claim.
unremarked said:
However, if someone does something like installs an improperly tuned or generally misuses a nitrous oxide/supercharged system which could directly lead to damage to the vehicle. I think that's a closer example to what folks typically do with a rooted devices than the car stereo. A slight digression and we could probably spend all day in "What if" scenarios.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that was exactly my point - if you do an "unauthorized" mod that causes the hardware malfuntion, warranty service can be denied.
If you do a modification that is not the cause of the hardware malfunction, warranty service for that hardware malfunction can NOT be denied.
If you overclock your CPU and then the CPU fries itself, you're SOL on the warranty repair.
If you root the phone and the volume switch stops working, or the screen stops working, they can't deny warranty service. Rooting in and of itself doesn't do anything that would cause a hardware malfunction; though it may let you do things (like overclocking) that can.
I'm talking about what is LEGAL, at least in my state, not what some company will try to get away with if you let them. It doesn't matter what some people say they've experienced with HTC on an N1 claim, unless they went to court over it and lost.
This isn't really the thread to discuss it, but since you gave such an extreme example that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand, I felt compelled to respond.
Peace.
distortedloop said:
But that was exactly my point - if you do an "unauthorized" mod that causes the hardware malfuntion, warranty service can be denied.
If you do a modification that is not the cause of the hardware malfunction, warranty service for that hardware malfunction can NOT be denied.
If you overclock your CPU and then the CPU fries itself, you're SOL on the warranty repair.
If you root the phone and the volume switch stops working, or the screen stops working, they can't deny warranty service. Rooting in and of itself doesn't do anything that would cause a hardware malfunction; though it may let you do things (like overclocking) that can.
I'm talking about what is LEGAL, at least in my state, not what some company will try to get away with if you let them. It doesn't matter what some people say they've experienced with HTC on an N1 claim, unless they went to court over it and lost.
This isn't really the thread to discuss it, but since you gave such an extreme example that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand, I felt compelled to respond.
Peace.
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Click to collapse
All excellent points, mate. I'll admit that perhaps that wasn't the best example, but I'm not really a car guy.
However, I'm going to disagree on two points: One, I think this discussion(aside from the car talk fail on my part) is on topic given the OP's question was regarding return/warranty claim. Two, the legal aspect you mentioned. In order to unlock the bootloader on the Nexus One, you had to agree to avoid your warranty.
You were not forced to do this, you were not coerced into doing this, nor was it something you could do by accident You must have knowingly and intentionally set out to unlock your bootloader. The language was very clear on what the consquences of this action were. If someone were to sue HTC over their refusal to honor warranty, regardless of the issue, I believe they would lose because they agreed to void their warranty when they unlocked.
Here is the language HTC used:
HTC said:
If you unlock the bootloader, you will be able to install custom operating system software on the phone.
A custom OS is not subject to the same testing as the original OS, and can cause your phone and installed applications to stop working properly. As a result, unlocking the bootloader will void any warranty on your phone.
To prevent unauthorized access to your personal data, unlocking the bootloader will also delete all personal data from your phone(a "factory data reset"). Press the Volume Up/Down button to select Yes or No. Then press the power button to continue.
Yes: Unlock bootloader (and void your warranty)
No: Do not unlock and restart phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unremarked said:
All excellent points, mate. I'll admit that perhaps that wasn't the best example, but I'm not really a car guy.
However, I'm going to disagree on two points: One, I think this discussion(aside from the car talk fail on my part) is on topic given the OP's question was regarding return/warranty claim. Two, the legal aspect you mentioned. In order to unlock the bootloader on the Nexus One, you had to agree to avoid your warranty.
You were not forced to do this, you were not coerced into doing this, nor was it something you could do by accident You must have knowingly and intentionally set out to unlock your bootloader. The language was very clear on what the consquences of this action were. If someone were to sue HTC over their refusal to honor warranty, regardless of the issue, I believe they would lose because they agreed to void their warranty when they unlocked.
Here is the language HTC used:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only if the unlocking caused (or could have caused) the failure you're seeking warranty repair for.
Unlocking the bootloader could in no way cause the volume buttons or the earphone jack assembly to go bad, therefore just the fact that you unlocked the bootloader would not allow the manufacturer to deny you repairs for the volume buttons or speaker jack if they went bad.
It's a matter of statute. Your jurisdiction may be different.
An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be told if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
oover the phone to who?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
You will have to call T-Mobile to get S-OFF. Also I was told it wold be in about a month, the same time as the EVO 3D
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
No offense, but one thing I've learned, reps don't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.
sakuul said:
An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be to if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this is true then this sucks...i wouldn't want to void my warranty for this.
Well this sucks. Hard.
Just have to wait and see, I read elsewhere where the s-off would not void your warranty, but flashing a custom ROM would.
Did the Rep say when the unlock for the bootloader would be available?
About a month. It's in the third post
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Now usually with any phone I wouldn't think twice...I would do this immediately.
BUT, since I've already returned one Sensation for problems, I do not want to risk voiding my warranty (in case I need it in the future for dust under the screen or something).
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
It makes sense that they'd want to get people to agree to it before they give s-off, that skirts U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how T-Mobile is going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning. I'll go buy a Nexus S, and deal with the lower res screen, slower processor, less ram, no memory expansion, pathetic build quality, and a screen I don't like so that I can do what I want with the device I purchase.
Oh and that Nexus S will be on AT&T, I pay for an AT&T family plan for my parents already, the only reasons I opened a T-Mobile account were to support local business (well the U.S. arm of T-Mobile and HTC at least) and to get the Sensation.
No Offense but sounds bull**** to me..stupid reps dont know what they are talkin about...thats like the presidents maid saying we are bombing russia tomm...Im sure HTC would risk all the bad cred this would cause after they just opened up the Dev section at HTC to a releationship with private DEVS...no way!! Within 2 weeks is my bet!! just long enuff so we dont return under the 30 days,, to be honest idk..it will get figured out by devs here and elsewhere and in the meantime im running a rom i was trying to get perfect on my OG EVO(RIP) for months..now its flawless and on roids!!,,JUST MY OPINION...NO FLAMES>>>
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.
There's a reason that hardware manufacturers are required to perform warranty replacements or repairs on devices regardless of the software being used. You'd never hear Acer or HP deny your request for warranty replacement of a bad motherboard simply because you wiped the pre-installed Windows OS for a Linux flavor.
That rep must be smoking some seriously good stuff, as well as be very ignorant of U.S. laws and regulations just to say something like that.
Come to think of it, I'll bet he works undercover for Samsung or Motorolla
_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is why they have a TOS - Terms of Service. They are not violating any US laws unless they contradict their own TOS. You know when you get your phone and on the manual there's a crap ton of fine prints? or once your phone is turned on and you have to check "I agree". If you took the time to read any of the information in those "TOS" or "policy" than you will understand that their behinds are definitely covered.
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
tigerz0202 said:
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If any of this is true at all. Than it seems they are going about it similar to getting your phone "unlocked" to go out of country. It's on a "by request" issue and if its in their TOS than if you want it. you abide by it.
mykoe817 said:
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
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Click to collapse
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
_kansei_ said:
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
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Click to collapse
Good post. And I completely understand where your coming from. I can see HTC stance on this as I work with info-systems for businesses and what they are doing is pretty normal in terms of proprietary software/hardware. When I say proprietary I mean that this software is designed to work with specific hardware only.
Unlike windows/linux or other computer operating systems. Which are not proprietary in terms of hardware utilized. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Computer operating systems are designed to function with a wide range of hardware. Each OS is bundled with thousands of drivers. Also the resource of drivers available online. I work with lots of firewalls. All of which comprise of its own OS. That OS is only designed for that box only. If I mess with that OS, the whole box is no longer under warranty.
I wanna say its more of a privileged that HTC is unlocking their software giving users the privileged to do custom software and etc.
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
I second your comment about the HTC rep.
I'm not too worried. Even if this is true, SOMEONE here is bound to come up with a way to turn S-OFF despite T-mobile or HTC.
Problem here is I think your missing the point... The way I read the OP is that you have to call T-Mobile or whoever...not HTC to get S=OFF. Now correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like a T-Mobile stipulation...not a requirement from HTC. Which would be the "Documentation" another poster was talking about in another thread.
Seems some are jumping the gun by saying "Well if its hardware related ...blah blah; they should replace my phone under warranty." I don't think anyone disputes that. It's when you go and brick your phone with a bad flash or you can't follow directions etc..that that phone is "YOURS" and not for the carrier to eat the cost because you screwed up your phone & want a replacement.
If OP is true, I say its a Carrier stipulation not HTC because they already sold the phone to T-Mobile or whoever already and if your bricking the hell outta phones, HTC is gonna be doing great business with all of the warranty replacements to the Carrier...why would they care ...its the carriers losing money on bricked replacements and the carrier requesting more or less "stipulations" to keep track of people S=Off ing & rooting or flashing their phones.
mykoe817 said:
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
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Click to collapse
I gave some thought to that before I posted. Driving, you have to prove you're at least slightly capable of not killing yourself and others behind the wheel for 5 minutes before they'll give you a license to kill --I mean drive (sorry, hit by a car while cycling recently, I'm still bitter). As a consumer in the U.S., there are laws at the federal and state level that protect our interests against the evil corporations, though only a little of course as those evil corporations have way more power in our government than we do.
It's not a privilege we earn like driving, it's one given to all of us.
Screw dealing with this, I'm getting an iPhone (kidding of course)
"KNOX WARRANTY VOID" - only unfortunate wording? Please share your thoughts.
The flag everybody talks about is called "KNOX WARRANTY VOID". Considering that this text has been come up with by some non-native english speaking Korean it occured to me that this means actually something really different from what most people tend to understand. (I'm non-native English speaking too as you can see by reading this weird sentence, but I hope you get it nevertheless )
What most think of when they read "KNOX WARRANTY VOID":
"Device warranty void"
What I think of when I read "KNOX WARRANTY VOID":
"Knox warranty void".
Do you see the difference? I think that Samsung has to give some kind of warranty that the feature Knox works as it should (that means separating private data from enterprise data) in order to make companies use this feature. That's because they rely on it. Normally the flag is toggled by manipulating the device in a way that no one can assure that Knox works anymore as intended. A non-Samsung process running as root may cross process boundaries and give access to data it should not. So if a big company faces this situation they say: Hey Samsung, you assured that the device is secure but now look at this! The company could also make a claim for compensation!!!
But then Samsung can take a look at the device and say: "No way. The Knox warranty is void on this device. It is not secure anymore. It's written here."
That's it I think. It's not about denying the regular consumer warranty. It's about denying the warranty that the feature knox works as intended. That's why the flag is called "Knox warranty void". Maybe it's a bit unfortunately worded.
What do you think?
Your thought is just as valid as the other.
I guess someone from Samsung would need to inform us, or someone with a broken cellphone that is 0x1 would need to try to see if they could get it repaired or replaced under warranty.
Considering what Samsung did lately, the (for the customer) worst possible explanation is probably true.
What I read here, the phone is rootable and will boot without ever showing the knox flag. Maybe knox apps will not work anymore, but it stands to reason, that a sufficiently powerful enemy could likely modify the OS in a way to emulate the knox flag. To get around this, some kind of trusted cryptographic store would be needed, that only releases keys if the firmware checks out clean. However, if you have that, then you wouldn't need that efused flag in the first place. (Correct me please, if I am wrong here.)
I think your point may well be valid. I have read somewhere that people with the knox void are still getting their phone fixed by Samsung for free. .. so. ....
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Yes, I always assumed that it means the "Knox warranty" is void, not specifically the customer warranty. Basically the phone can't be used in a Knox environment anymore. To most end users this will have no impact since Knox is only useful to companies that will pay Samsung for the privilege... It's basically a push from Samsung to try to emulate the former success of Blackberry in large companies. I doubt it'll be very successful, and anyway it's already possible to root a device without triggering Knox, so in effect the warranty means absolutely nothing for the moment... (like most failed DRM schemes!)
I suppose it could be an issue for people who will want to resell the device in the future. Knox voided devices will probably sell a bit cheaper than pristine ones, even though it shouldn't matter to most buyers...
Several people have already reported being denied warranty service due to knox flag. OP your understanding of "Knox Warranty Void" is conjecture. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position there is no use in guessing. Why make their job easier by misguiding users to believe that you are speaking from a privileged position?
Bruce lee roy said:
Several people have already reported being denied warranty service due to knox flag. OP your understanding of "Knox Warranty Void" is conjecture. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position there is no use in guessing. Why make their job easier by misguiding users to believe that you are speaking from a privileged position?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The truth is that his conjecture is just as possible as the current conjecture. Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.. "Warranty Void" is all that is needed if the customer's phone warranty was being voided.
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
But then again.. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position it's just 'guessing'.
It's also very clear, at least to me, that the OP was posing a question and not speaking from a privileged position.
Breach said:
Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the beginning, my understanding of it was like this:
Knox is a hardware assisted security architecture. The knox part in the warranty flag is to show that it is hardware assisted too, and so immune to resetting or tampering.
Of course, this is conjecture, too.
cgi said:
From the beginning, my understanding of it was like this:
Knox is a hardware assisted security architecture. The knox part in the warranty flag is to show that it is hardware assisted too, and so immune to resetting or tampering.
Of course, this is conjecture, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung Knox - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox
It's a mobile security and cloud identity technology. Knox is now described as an anti tampering technology. I makes sense that they would attempt to have a way to find out if the system was tampered with.
Time will tell..
Breach said:
The truth is that his conjecture is just as possible as the current conjecture. Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.. "Warranty Void" is all that is needed if the customer's phone warranty was being voided.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't think you realize it, you've just proved my point with your double talk.
Breach said:
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... More conjecture
Breach said:
It's also very clear, at least to me, that the OP was posing a question and not speaking from a privileged position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ending a post with a question mark does not automatically indicate the op's intention is to pose a question. The majority of the op is written as a statement: first starting off by stating an opinion that his/her control of the Korean language (privileged position) gives them a distinct advantage to interpret the legal jargon released by Samsung. This claim by itself is ridiculous. What does the Korean language have to do with the wording of a warranty for English speaking populations? Do you really think the multi billion dollar international conglomerate, known as Samsung, is incapable of producing a decent translation on the TITLE of their legally binding warranty? Seriously people...
I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
Sent from my Galaxy Note III using Tapatalk
RavenY2K3 said:
I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You actually got a straight answer out of them? In plain and legible English? I can hardly believe it...
Bruce lee roy said:
Although I don't think you realize it, you've just proved my point with your double talk.
... More conjecture
Ending a post with a question mark does not automatically indicate the op's intention is to pose a question. The majority of the op is written as a statement: first starting off by stating an opinion that his/her control of the Korean language (privileged position) gives them a distinct advantage to interpret the legal jargon released by Samsung. This claim by itself is ridiculous. What does the Korean language have to do with the wording of a warranty for English speaking populations? Do you really think the multi billion dollar international conglomerate, known as Samsung, is incapable of producing a decent translation on the TITLE of their legally binding warranty? Seriously people...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are taking this whole subject wayyyy to personally. Relax bro.
It's ALL conjecture at this point, until proven otherwise. In the end, who really cares? Sure, if we can do it without voiding our warranty, that's great. If we can't.. we will void our warranties happily anyways. That is the true way of modders.
Breach said:
I think you are taking this whole subject wayyyy to personally. Relax bro.
It's ALL conjecture at this point, until proven otherwise. In the end, who really cares? Sure, if we can do it without voiding our warranty, that's great. If we can't.. we will void our warranties happily anyways. That is the true way of modders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At some point you have to walk away and hope the horse at least has the common sense not to wonder off the edge of a cliff.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
RavenY2K3 said:
I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which really brings us back to the legality of the situation. In many countries (including most of Europe and Australia) the statutory warranty put in place by legislation cannot be denied. The statutory warranty doesn't recognise something like rooting or custom ROMs as a valid reason do deny service, unless the device failure was caused by that action. So from a legal standpoint they cannot deny warranty service based on this, regardless of what they say or put in their own warranty agreement. They really aren't allowed to pick arbitrary reasons to deny service.
On the other hand - try and get it. If Samsung refuse to repair your device under warranty, you would probably have to take them to court to compel them to repair it, and I just don't see anyone trying that. Interestingly enough, whether it would be a valid clause or not, I can't see anything in Samsung's warranty agreement that says modifying the device voids the warranty. Only the standard out that damage *caused by* tampering with the device isn't covered........
cgi said:
Considering what Samsung did lately, the (for the customer) worst possible explanation is probably true.
What I read here, the phone is rootable and will boot without ever showing the knox flag. Maybe knox apps will not work anymore, but it stands to reason, that a sufficiently powerful enemy could likely modify the OS in a way to emulate the knox flag. To get around this, some kind of trusted cryptographic store would be needed, that only releases keys if the firmware checks out clean. However, if you have that, then you wouldn't need that efused flag in the first place. (Correct me please, if I am wrong here.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KNOX stuff still works even if the flag is 0x1.
---------------------
I personally see it as 0x0, your data is secure, 0x1, data is secured with knox, but the system has been compromised and no way to guarantee it is truly secure.
Bruce lee roy said:
At some point you have to turn your back and hope the horse at least has the common sense not play near the edge of a cliff.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One horse's cliff may be another horse's hurdle.
So what you are saying is that if you knew rooting your Note 3 would void your warranty, you wouldn't root it?
If I can preserve my warranty and still get root, I will.. otherwise, screw the warranty. That's why I am here.
---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------
It's funny when I say one thing, Bruce calls it double talk...
Breach said:
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but when someone says the same thing in a different way..
designgears said:
I personally see it as 0x0, your data is secure, 0x1, data is secured with knox, but the system has been compromised and no way to guarantee it is truly secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bruce agrees by 'Thanking' the guy.
Seriously. Getting Knoxed should be a meme
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
Ever owned an Xbox? PS3? Or maybe an old VCR? Television? Microwave? Fridge?
Seen the sticker on the inside? The one that says "If this seal is broken, warranty is void"?
Exact same thing.
Seraphim401 said:
Seriously. Getting Knoxed should be a meme
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good one!
From past experience I've learned that rooting/bootloader unlocking most (all?) devices leads to voided warranty. Is this the same case for Nexus devices? I'd like to be extra careful for the first couple of months just in case there's a hardware failure of some sort.
Thanks
Sent from my Nexus 5
You can always fastboot oem lock (relock the bootloader) it anyway. It doesnt matter
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
rfree2340 said:
From past experience I've learned that rooting/bootloader unlocking most (all?) devices leads to voided warranty. Is this the same case for Nexus devices? I'd like to be extra careful for the first couple of months just in case there's a hardware failure of some sort.
Thanks
Sent from my Nexus 5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
magnuson-moss warranty act said you have nothing to worry about.
http://www.xda-developers.com/xda-tv-2/your-warranty-is-not-void-xda-tv/
painter_ said:
magnuson-moss warranty act said you have nothing to worry about.
http://www.xda-developers.com/xda-tv-2/your-warranty-is-not-void-xda-tv/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not to burst your bubble.... but the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act doesn't mean diddly for this. The MM Warranty Act was enacted to prevent manufacturers/dealers from voiding warranties unless something that was done can be linked to the direct cause of a failure (as an example... if the engine of your car blows up... they can't void the warranty because you upgraded your entire sound system). Rooting the phone, or unlocking the bootloader could easily end up in having a bricked device, due to the possibility of flashing an improper ROM or messing up the boot partition.
I believe the act you were trying to refer to was the DMCA. Rooting your phone, IS legal under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, however unlocking your phone is still a gray area. But I believe just because it's legal... doesn't necessarily mean that manufacturers have to provide a replacement if you did something voluntarily that screwed up your phone.
Google gives you $5 stote credit if you root.
elementaldragon said:
not to burst your bubble.... but the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act doesn't mean diddly for this. The MM Warranty Act was enacted to prevent manufacturers/dealers from voiding warranties unless something that was done can be linked to the direct cause of a failure (as an example... if the engine of your car blows up... they can't void the warranty because you upgraded your entire sound system). Rooting the phone, or unlocking the bootloader could easily end up in having a bricked device, due to the possibility of flashing an improper ROM or messing up the boot partition.
I believe the act you were trying to refer to was the DMCA. Rooting your phone, IS legal under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, however unlocking your phone is still a gray area. But I believe just because it's legal... doesn't necessarily mean that manufacturers have to provide a replacement if you did something voluntarily that screwed up your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN.
elementaldragon said:
not to burst your bubble.... but the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act doesn't mean diddly for this. The MM Warranty Act was enacted to prevent manufacturers/dealers from voiding warranties unless something that was done can be linked to the direct cause of a failure (as an example... if the engine of your car blows up... they can't void the warranty because you upgraded your entire sound system). Rooting the phone, or unlocking the bootloader could easily end up in having a bricked device, due to the possibility of flashing an improper ROM or messing up the boot partition.
I believe the act you were trying to refer to was the DMCA. Rooting your phone, IS legal under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, however unlocking your phone is still a gray area. But I believe just because it's legal... doesn't necessarily mean that manufacturers have to provide a replacement if you did something voluntarily that screwed up your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends what your problem is. If the screen stops working, your rooting wouldn't have anything to do with it, so it would apply. Same for the speaker, if it stops working, rooting didn't cause it, still warrantied.
But if you overwrote the partitions, then yes, it obviously wouldn't be covered.
Felnarion said:
Depends what your problem is. If the screen stops working, your rooting wouldn't have anything to do with it, so it would apply. Same for the speaker, if it stops working, rooting didn't cause it, still warrantied.
But if you overwrote the partitions, then yes, it obviously wouldn't be covered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... this thread is talking more about just the idea of whether or not rooting/unlocking the bootloader of the N5 would be covered by Google if the phone was RMA'd for some reason. Hence why the DMCA would be the more appropriate reference.
Regarding Samsung's "Warranty Bit" Sh**(Originally from http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=49345592)
For those of you who are as ticked off as I am about Samsung's new warranty bit/voided warranty behavior due to a suspected E-fuse in their latest devices, YOU (yes, YOU) need to speak up and make sure that Samsung executives are starkly aware of who pays for their 50' yachts and their effing Bentleys! Tell them that your support for them is easily dissolved and that this new "practice" of theirs is one of the quickest and easiest ways to dissolve it.
Consumers are the ones who pay Samsung's bills. This is a truth that they would rather not acknowledge, but given a force that's great enough in numbers, they will yield to the will of their consumers.
Just look at Microsoft and Windows 8 (8.1), as well as their recent release of Office 2013 (license transfer). Microsoft has got to be one of THE most stubborn corporations in the world right now, but even they have yielded to the overwhelming force that is the consumer, and more specifically, their bank accounts. Ever heard the phrase "money talks"? Oh, it most certainly talks.. We as consumers have the ability to make our money talk collectively, so, if we want to see an end to this new way that they're giving their customers the shaft, we need to join voices and speak UP.
Drown them with emails, light up their tech support lines, and paint this picture for them as clearly as you can. Tell them that you WILL NOT continue to purchase their devices when they deny warranty service simply because of a "warranty bit", or for other ridiculous and non-sensical reasons, and tell them that Knox should come as an OPTION and NOT A MANDATE. I've listed a few ways to do that below. If anyone else has other/better ways of doing so, then by all means, share with the class.
Samsung USA's online customer feedback form: https://contactus.samsung.com/customer/contactus/formmail/mail/MailQuestionProduct.jsp?SITE_ID=1&titleCode=1
Samsung USA's toll-free customer service phone number: 1-855-SAM-USA1 (1-855-726-8721) 9am – 9pm ET, 7 days a week
Samsung Mobile USA's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobileUSA
If there's a forum on XDA Developers or ANY OTHER WEBSITE where you think this post might help spread the word about this, then you have my expressed written consent to copy this entire post (verbatim, from beginning to end please, including this part at the bottom) and re-post it WHEREVER you think it might help this cause. I've attached a text file that includes this post, as well as all the formatting/coloring (Attention Re-Poster: please re-attach the same text file).
Go, contact Samsung NOW!
(Reserved)
Every Android phone I've ever bought came out of warranty when rooted. In Note 3, Samsung just found a way to detect rooting, that's all. Nothing else changed, so I don't think this is going to have much effect.
aydc said:
Every Android phone I've ever bought came out of warranty when rooted. In Note 3, Samsung just found a way to detect rooting, that's all. Nothing else changed, so I don't think this is going to have much effect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you even cant flash stock FW, nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag. Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox? Most expensive device, with many weaknesses that they didn't address, but they forced us to accept knox. No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2. And everything with no clear explanation!? I won't buy their product soon!
Sent from my GT-I9505
jjnhl68 said:
But you even cant flash stock FW, nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag. Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox? Most expensive device, with many weaknesses that they didn't address, but they forced us to accept knox. No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2. And everything with no clear explanation!? I won't buy their product soon!
Sent from my GT-I9505
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good - don't.
Knox is included and everyone knows that, it's in the box and everywhere.
Downgrading is a security risk and rooting is technically an exploit.
Knox uses very little RAM (if you uninstall the main apk which doesn't even require root)
I can't believe we're still talking about ram usage of some small apps even if we've got 2/3 gbs of ram to spare...
Skander1998 said:
Good - don't.
Knox is included and everyone knows that, it's in the box and everywhere.
Downgrading is a security risk and rooting is technically an exploit.
Knox uses very little RAM (if you uninstall the main apk which doesn't even require root)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then, KNOX using no RAM would be better. If half the owners of Note3 don't use KNOX, what's the point in it even using any?
Why have a device that's so powerful but then put on software that just hogs. 2.5GB memory yet the TouchWiz and the other crap that Samsung put in it take up so much.
OP, after reading your post, I find it very difficult to comprehend the exact purpose and reasoning that you are trying to convey. After all, it sounds that you are merely butthurt that you got denied warranty because you tampered with your device.
However, you must try to understand how the business world works first.
Your issue is a problem that a miniscule portion of the market experiences. Those of us who consider themselves "leet haxxorz" tend to enjoy tinkering with their devices to streamline the user experience. However, things often go wrong - phones and tablets get bricked. Then the frustrated consumer heads back to Samsung to demand repair/exchange.
As a corporation, Samsung must have noticed that this was costing them a significant amount of money, and hence KNOX was created as a comprehensive tool with a feature to instantly diagnose whether product has been tampered with.
The average user that understands absolutely nothing about technology could care less whether KNOX exists or not.
And as long as KNOX will save the company money in the long run, your persistent complaints will accomplish absolutely nothing. Don't forget that we represent a fairly insignificant portion of the market. Encouraging users to tamper with products encourages liability which costs money. Money that no company is willing to pay.
The only advice I can offer you is to ensure you are not voiding any sort of warranty before you partake in certain activities. By doing research I was able to avoid the 0x1 situation, and retain my warranty. Of course, I had to sacrifice rooting and installing a custom ROM.
jjnhl68 said:
But you even cant flash stock FW...which will lead to 0x1 flag...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no ppl have flashed stock roms without tripping their knox..
jjnhl68 said:
...nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as the other user said this can be considered a security issue so you have no argument..
jjnhl68 said:
...Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox?...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its like any other "bloat", do you use any of those apps? do you cry about those apps?
jjnhl68 said:
..Most expensive device, with many weaknesses..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what weaknesses? and it isnt most expensive anymore... :angel:
jjnhl68 said:
...No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how do you plan on doing that? as the note 3 came with 4.3
jjnhl68 said:
...And everything with no clear explanation!?...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the word "knox" is printed EVERYWHERE.. what more are they supposed to do to make users "aware"
jjnhl68 said:
... I won't buy their product soon!...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
only part of your post that i agree with :laugh:
PS- next time you want a big company to do what YOU want...try doing research and not make silly mistakes that can make your argument really weak
Khizar said:
no ppl have flashed stock roms without tripping their knox..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also ppl have flashed with tripping their knox!!!
Khizar said:
as the other user said this can be considered a security issue so you have no argument..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I should loose my warranty because of that???
Khizar said:
its like any other "bloat", do you use any of those apps? do you cry about those apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See my point!!! No need for bloat, ok?
Khizar said:
what weaknesses? and it isnt most expensive anymore... :angel:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was when i have bought it!!! For 6 months my phone was 3 times in service for repairs under warranty (microphone, speaker, display defects)
We all know about weak points of S4, we are using them, aren't we?
Khizar said:
how do you plan on doing that? as the note 3 came with 4.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was on 4.2.2 in time of buying
Khizar said:
the word "knox" is printed EVERYWHERE.. what more are they supposed to do to make users "aware"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Khizar said:
only part of your post that i agree with :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Khizar said:
PS- next time you want a big company to do what YOU want...try doing research and not make silly mistakes that can make your argument really weak
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I already said, in summer 2013. you couldn't know Samsung's intentions, ok?
On any phone rooting or tampering with your phone voids your warranty no questions asked.
On every root thread the first thing is a warning telling you your warranty is now void.
Your malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and fake it to get free servicing is now not possible hence the whining.
PS: flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.
I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.
I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.
I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.
I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.
As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
Journyman16 said:
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.
I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.
I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.
I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.
I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.
As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i cannot agree with you more.
its all about consumer rights and samdung has no rights to force enterprise solutions on private individuals who have no use for NSA grade security.
however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.
The logic of not being able to downgrade to a older bootloader and not tripping knox is absolute bullcrap.afterall,it is samdung's official ROM and flashing it trips knox and samdung claims you are trying to be funny with their devices(yeah,that's right,you pay top dollars for their phones and it does not belong to you.PERIOD),so what does that tell you?
samdung going the way of apple and trying to be a corporate phone ala blackberry????
Bi*ch please, blackberry was the top corporate device coz its secured as hell.but jus look at how many ppl actually want to use a blackberry to take pictures,listen to music,surf the net,play games on it or hell even show it to frds they have a new model.
samdung,you have the best hardware in the market,i'll give you that.but your TW sucks,loaded with bloatware and is at best irritable when compared with any custom rom and laughable when compare with CM.
with knox,you can have it.no more samdung's knox-pox time for me to switch to something more friendly.
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
frostmore said:
however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).
And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
lilstevie said:
This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).
And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
frostmore said:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And compared to some devices that don't even let you downgrade at all, whether you want to void your warranty or not are any different because?
frostmore said:
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, first of all, using terms like "samdung" is just making you sound like a petulant child. It really does not help your case at all. Secondly, you are contradicting yourself in one swoop here, saying that they should be able to protect their rights, but they shouldn't have a mechanism to be able to protect their rights.
frostmore said:
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please tell me what the difference is. Sure I get why you want to use Greenify, or TB, but tell me how from the perspective of the manufacturer how they can tell the difference on a broken phone. Why should the OEM have to pay for all those devices bricked through stupid actions of users with root access (and it is more common than you think) for the benefit of the few that will not destroy their device in the process.
frostmore said:
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsungs policy towards warranty is your device is excluded through the act of modification, that is to hardware or software. Sony and HTC have a similar policy rooting, in fact I don't think I have seen any device on the market where the warranty is maintained on rooting. Please note here, I'm not saying that people haven't gotten their devices repaired after rooting. I'm simply noting the act of rooting in most territories around the world constitutes breach of terms for the warranty and therefore makes that null and void.
frostmore said:
with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, no. Samsung are like "we are okay with everything, but note that modification of the software on your device constitutes voiding your warranty". Unless you have a carrier variant like an AT&T device or Verizon device the bootloader is unlocked, as in, it was never locked down in the first place, you can open up heimdall or odin with the device connected in download mode, and flash it to your hearts content. Downgrading is a tricky situation. Samsung are well within their rights, and in some cases required to as per IP licensing to keep the boot environment secure.
frostmore said:
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean consumer rights that people have been abusing for years?
frostmore said:
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
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Click to collapse
I don't worry I'm no fanboy of any device. I am however one that is a firm supporter that if people hadn't been abusing the warranty procedures that these sorts of measures would never have been implemented.
If I have administrator rights in my computer why I can't have the same in my phone?
Does being an administrator in your windows desktop computer void your warranty?
Why I can't unninstal all the apps that I don't use?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
frostmore said:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
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Ha ha, Samdung!! Like Samsung but like dung. Aww man, did you come up with yourself? That is brilliant
AllanJ60 said:
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
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*grins* Yep, you are right... you're wrong. It isn't the Knox software people are upset about, it is the Knox counter that is built in. It is set at 0x0 and if you do anything with your phone except take Samsung OTA updates, which have been tightened even further once they realised the Devs had found a way around their little booby trap, you trigger a change of state in that counter to 0x1.
It is supposed to be irreversible and you can trigger it by doing things Android users have been doing since Android came out. A good number of what are now standard apps require root access and providing that will trigger Knox. As pointed out, if you decide you don't like a particular OTA update (say to KitKat) and try to go back to a previous version (say the one your phone came with) you trigger Knox.
And Samsung is voiding warranties because Knox is triggered. Blanket voiding as far as can be determined. Doesn't matter if there's a hardware issue (say the charge circuit stopped) they will void because that trigger is at 0x1.