Related
look at this link. we can now root without fear of retribution
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/26/technology/iphone_jailbreaking/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin
This is definitely a great step but will it void the warranty?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
madjsp said:
This is definitely a great step but will it void the warranty?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it will still void the warranty...
Was it illegal to modify your own personal property before?? That doesn't seem right... I know some of the reasons people did weren't right. (ie. downloading paid apps for free, etc)
But this doesn't stop the companies from it voiding warranties because you're modifying what they know won't mess up. (or "shouldn't" I should say...)
I have a feeling since the government updated the fair use policy (whatever it was called) to say you can legally jailbreak the iphone and not void your warranty then the same will wapply for android phones, just threaten them. You may have to be the first guy who takes them to court though,
As far as I know, the action of rooting your phone would have to be the cause of it breaking for Samsung to be able to legally void your warranty. Granted, they would obviously try to strong arm you into giving up your claim if you tried to get service on a device which you left your rooted ROM on, and you would be an idiot to not flash it back first, but if you have rooted your phone, and it was fully functional, and then something completely unrelated happened, like the WiFi chip burning out and it having nothing to do with your mods, then Samsung would have to fix it. US warranty law protects consumers who make alterations to their purchases as long as they do not cause damage or improper functioning which is contributory to failure. This is why you can modify the exhaust on that brand new Beamer or toss a new video card into your computer and still have both taken care of under warranty.
Does that mean if you experience a problem and its rooted, they wouldn't care if you returned it?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
if they figure out if its rooted they wont return it if its stock they most likely wont figure out that its rooted just depends on how smart the perosn is
So you'd still have to unroot just incase?
I figured it being a straight up google phone, aosp and all, they would embrace the modding
I guess we still gots a ways to go before that happens
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
A_Flying_Fox said:
So you'd still have to unroot just incase?
I figured it being a straight up google phone, aosp and all, they would embrace the modding
I guess we still gots a ways to go before that happens
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google, yes. Samsung/Best Buy/hardware OEMs, no. Google doesn't deal with the consequences of someone bricking their phone by being stupid and the revenue loss from a warranty claim/exchange. That being said, HTC usually honored Nexus One warranties on things like hardware failures unrelated to rooting(i.e. power button fail).
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
unremarked said:
Google, yes. Samsung/Best Buy/hardware OEMs, no. Google doesn't deal with the consequences of someone bricking their phone by being stupid and the revenue loss from a warranty claim/exchange. That being said, HTC usually honored Nexus One warranties on things like hardware failures unrelated to rooting(i.e. power button fail).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't lived in Texas since 1983, so I can't speak directly for Texas, but in many jurisdictions, such as California (where I live) the warrantor has no choice but to honor the warranty on a hardware failure just because a software modification was made unless the warrantor can prove that the software mod caused the hardware failure.
Warranty law in many (most?) states in the US specifically allows for user modifications to a product not voiding the warranty unless said mod causes the failure. A common example is that a modification to your car with an aftermarket stereo system doesn't void the warranty on the drivetrain.
YMMV.
Personally I would unroot and re-lock before exchanging/returning, it's really not that hard (several threads discussing how), but I wouldn't stress over it either if I didn't. Best Buy's certainly not going to go digging into the phone's settings and software to see if you've rooted. They're going to turn it on to see if it works, and they're going to check it for physical damage, that's pretty much it.
Again, several threads already discussing this if you search for them...
distortedloop said:
I haven't lived in Texas since 1983, so I can't speak directly for Texas, but in many jurisdictions, such as California (where I live) the warrantor has no choice but to honor the warranty on a hardware failure just because a software modification was made unless the warrantor can prove that the software mod caused the hardware failure.
Warranty law in many (most?) states in the US specifically allows for user modifications to a product not voiding the warranty unless said mod causes the failure. A common example is that a modification to your car with an aftermarket stereo system doesn't void the warranty on the drivetrain.
YMMV.
Personally I would unroot and re-lock before exchanging/returning, it's really not that hard (several threads discussing how), but I wouldn't stress over it either if I didn't. Best Buy's certainly not going to go digging into the phone's settings and software to see if you've rooted. They're going to turn it on to see if it works, and they're going to check it for physical damage, that's pretty much it.
Again, several threads already discussing this if you search for them...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However, if someone does something like installs an improperly tuned or generally misuses a nitrous oxide/supercharged system which could directly lead to damage to the vehicle. I think that's a closer example to what folks typically do with a rooted devices than the car stereo. A slight digression and we could probably spend all day in "What if" scenarios.
But yeah, mate, that's my understanding and experience as well. If the warranty claim is for a hardware issue unrelated to the modified software, HTC(don't know about Samsung, but I'd imagine it'd be the same) generally honor the warranty. My response was to @A_Flying_Fox's question regarding the official support on modding, which I highly doubt we'll ever have from hardware manufacturers due to the aforementioned revenue loss from warranty claims/exchanges from folks being silly. Also I believe the one thing exempt from any warranty repair/most insurances is water damage.
When I lurked the Nexus One forums, I did see threads pop up regarding the warranty with one of three outcomes: Full repair with no questions asked, hardware repair with a $120 charge to replace motherboard(even if this was not the cause of the fault), or flatout refusal due to the language of the unlocked bootloader explicitly saying your warranty is now void. I'll point out here that the language on the Nexus S says your warranty MAY be void.
Like you, however, I'd recommend at least relocking the bootloader before returning the phone and/or sending it in for a claim.
unremarked said:
However, if someone does something like installs an improperly tuned or generally misuses a nitrous oxide/supercharged system which could directly lead to damage to the vehicle. I think that's a closer example to what folks typically do with a rooted devices than the car stereo. A slight digression and we could probably spend all day in "What if" scenarios.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that was exactly my point - if you do an "unauthorized" mod that causes the hardware malfuntion, warranty service can be denied.
If you do a modification that is not the cause of the hardware malfunction, warranty service for that hardware malfunction can NOT be denied.
If you overclock your CPU and then the CPU fries itself, you're SOL on the warranty repair.
If you root the phone and the volume switch stops working, or the screen stops working, they can't deny warranty service. Rooting in and of itself doesn't do anything that would cause a hardware malfunction; though it may let you do things (like overclocking) that can.
I'm talking about what is LEGAL, at least in my state, not what some company will try to get away with if you let them. It doesn't matter what some people say they've experienced with HTC on an N1 claim, unless they went to court over it and lost.
This isn't really the thread to discuss it, but since you gave such an extreme example that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand, I felt compelled to respond.
Peace.
distortedloop said:
But that was exactly my point - if you do an "unauthorized" mod that causes the hardware malfuntion, warranty service can be denied.
If you do a modification that is not the cause of the hardware malfunction, warranty service for that hardware malfunction can NOT be denied.
If you overclock your CPU and then the CPU fries itself, you're SOL on the warranty repair.
If you root the phone and the volume switch stops working, or the screen stops working, they can't deny warranty service. Rooting in and of itself doesn't do anything that would cause a hardware malfunction; though it may let you do things (like overclocking) that can.
I'm talking about what is LEGAL, at least in my state, not what some company will try to get away with if you let them. It doesn't matter what some people say they've experienced with HTC on an N1 claim, unless they went to court over it and lost.
This isn't really the thread to discuss it, but since you gave such an extreme example that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand, I felt compelled to respond.
Peace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All excellent points, mate. I'll admit that perhaps that wasn't the best example, but I'm not really a car guy.
However, I'm going to disagree on two points: One, I think this discussion(aside from the car talk fail on my part) is on topic given the OP's question was regarding return/warranty claim. Two, the legal aspect you mentioned. In order to unlock the bootloader on the Nexus One, you had to agree to avoid your warranty.
You were not forced to do this, you were not coerced into doing this, nor was it something you could do by accident You must have knowingly and intentionally set out to unlock your bootloader. The language was very clear on what the consquences of this action were. If someone were to sue HTC over their refusal to honor warranty, regardless of the issue, I believe they would lose because they agreed to void their warranty when they unlocked.
Here is the language HTC used:
HTC said:
If you unlock the bootloader, you will be able to install custom operating system software on the phone.
A custom OS is not subject to the same testing as the original OS, and can cause your phone and installed applications to stop working properly. As a result, unlocking the bootloader will void any warranty on your phone.
To prevent unauthorized access to your personal data, unlocking the bootloader will also delete all personal data from your phone(a "factory data reset"). Press the Volume Up/Down button to select Yes or No. Then press the power button to continue.
Yes: Unlock bootloader (and void your warranty)
No: Do not unlock and restart phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unremarked said:
All excellent points, mate. I'll admit that perhaps that wasn't the best example, but I'm not really a car guy.
However, I'm going to disagree on two points: One, I think this discussion(aside from the car talk fail on my part) is on topic given the OP's question was regarding return/warranty claim. Two, the legal aspect you mentioned. In order to unlock the bootloader on the Nexus One, you had to agree to avoid your warranty.
You were not forced to do this, you were not coerced into doing this, nor was it something you could do by accident You must have knowingly and intentionally set out to unlock your bootloader. The language was very clear on what the consquences of this action were. If someone were to sue HTC over their refusal to honor warranty, regardless of the issue, I believe they would lose because they agreed to void their warranty when they unlocked.
Here is the language HTC used:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only if the unlocking caused (or could have caused) the failure you're seeking warranty repair for.
Unlocking the bootloader could in no way cause the volume buttons or the earphone jack assembly to go bad, therefore just the fact that you unlocked the bootloader would not allow the manufacturer to deny you repairs for the volume buttons or speaker jack if they went bad.
It's a matter of statute. Your jurisdiction may be different.
There's a firestorm going on in the international forum because, at least overseas, HTC's no longer providing warranty support for devices unlocked via HTCdev that have used non-HTC provided ROMs. Here's an e-mail exchange.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Da: Returns [mailto:[email protected]]
Inviato: mercoledì 2 maggio 2012 16:59
A: xxxxx xxxxxxxx
Oggetto: RE: Clove Return (RM120410473F)
Paolo
We are contacting you concerning the HTC One X which you returned to us due to there being a yellow tint on the display. As you are aware we sent the handset to the HTC service centre as it was not possible to have it classed as a DOA (dead on arrival), due to the bootloader being unlocked and illegal software having been installed. The HTC service has confirmed that illegal software has been installed on the handset at some time by yourself resulting in the warranty being invalidated. Simply unlocking and relocking the bootloader would not have invalidated the warranty.
Due to illegal software being installed on the handset while it was in your possession HTC has issued a quotation for the replacement of the mainboard. The total of the quotation for the repair is £199.81 and we will need to charge an additional £24 for the return of the handset to your Italian address by International Signed post. This provides a total repair and return cost of £223.81.
It is possible for the handset to be returned to you without it being repaired. The HTC service centre charge £23.70 for the handset to be released and returned to us. Like with the repair quotation we will need to charge £24 for the handset to be returned to you. This means that the total to return the handset to you without it being repaired is £47.70.
Regards
Sales Team
Clove Technology
TEL: +44 (0)1202 552936
FAX: +44 (0)1202 552937
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.clove.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1631466
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1631610
Prior to the release of the One's HTC provided h/w warranty repairs even if the device had been running a custom ROM. It appears that's no longer the case. It all hinges on the wording on HTCdev that states "you may void your warranty." "May" now seems to mean "will" in many cases.
It might be different in the U.S. but it's worth investigating before using HTCdev.
P.S. - Don't shoot the messenger.
wow , weak.
if true , almost regretting my trade for a onex and getting rid of galaxy nexus.
Thank God for Best Buy Black Tie Protection
dmbrown81 said:
Thank God for Best Buy Black Tie Protection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does Best Buy actually cover relocked phones? I have Black Tie Protection and I want to know whether this REALLY will cover me
I thought it was stated when they started it that using the unlock would invalidate warranties?
^ I thought so too.
KitF said:
I thought it was stated when they started it that using the unlock would invalidate warranties?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Up until the One's, they repaired h/w regardless of what s/w had been run on the device unless it was clearly customer induced damage. So while they didn't have to based on the T&C language, they did. It appears that's no longer the case (at least in Europe). As you can see from the e-mail above, their denying repairs on what are known to be frequently occuring issues having nothing to do with the unlocked bootloader. As they say, caveat emptor.
After reading their ToS it seems that you only void your warranty if the damage to your device is a result of the unlocked bootloader. The issue in the OP was an issue with the hardware (the screen) and the warranty shouldn't be voided. Granted, I'm not a lawyer but that's how I interpret their ToS.
THE SERVICE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, UPDATES, UPGRADES AND PATCHES FOR THE SOFTWARE INSTALLED ON YOUR DEVICE THAT YOU DOWNLOAD TO YOUR DEVICE FROM THE SERVICE, IS PROVIDED BY HTC ON AN “AS IS”, “WITH ALL FAULTS” AND “AS AVAILABLE” BASIS. THE COMPANY MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, AS TO THE OPERATION OF THE SERVICE, THE ACCURACY OR THE COMPLETENESS OF THE INFORMATION, CONTENT, MATERIALS, OR PRODUCTS INCLUDED OR AVAILABLE ON THE SERVICE. HTC WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES OF ANY KIND ARISING FROM THE USE OF THE SERVICE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
letshaveDEX said:
Does Best Buy actually cover relocked phones? I have Black Tie Protection and I want to know whether this REALLY will cover me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bestbuy care less about your bootloader really
blacktie covers any "accidental damage"
i think you can put the phone into the microwave for 2 minutes and deep fry it before sending it back to best buy, and they will still replace it
you : "I accidentally dropped it into the deep fryer"
geek squirt: "here's your new htc one"
Yes, however, Clove also States that the warranty wouldnt be voided had the bootloader had been unlocked then relocked. However, they stated that "illegal" software was run on it and thus the warranty is void. If a court upholds the term and warranty is void, I'm afraid of the consequences of that action. It would mean that anyone that puts a different ROM than the one their device shipped with would be illegal. It still baffles me that they would use the term "illegal" on something we love doing after rooting our devices and have a "right" to do here in America.
Sent from my HTC Vivid
NextNexus said:
After reading their ToS it seems that you only void your warranty if the damage to your device is a result of the unlocked bootloader. The issue in the OP was an issue with the hardware (the screen) and the warranty shouldn't be voided. Granted, I'm not a lawyer but that's how I interpret their ToS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You agree to this...
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
And this...
Unlocking the bootloader means that you now have the ability to customize software on your device. Please note that changing your bootloader can cause significant issues with your device and once you have unlocked your device, you have agreed to the disclaimer that states a change in warranty status such that in the event you render your device unusable, you are responsible for the recovery of your device, whether by repair or by other means.
Both are broad enough for HTC to drive a truck through them. Specifically, saying "may" void your warranty without defining what conditons apply inside and outside of "may." In the absence of definition, "may" might as well read "will" because it's totally at HTC's discretion.
ZeroRilix said:
have a "right" to do here in America.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have the right to bear arm in america
try that in europe
BarryH_GEG said:
You agree to this...
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
And this...
Unlocking the bootloader means that you now have the ability to customize software on your device. Please note that changing your bootloader can cause significant issues with your device and once you have unlocked your device, you have agreed to the disclaimer that states a change in warranty status such that in the event you render your device unusable, you are responsible for the recovery of your device, whether by repair or by other means.
Both are broad enough for HTC to drive a truck through them. Specifically, saying "may" void your warranty without defining what conditons apply inside and outside of "may." In the absence of definition, "may" might as well read "will" because it's totally at HTC's discretion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree and I posted in my previous post the exact wording from the disclaimer that they are referring to in your post. The disclaimer CLEARLY states that the warranty does not cover damage that occurs as a RESULT of the bootloader being unlocked.
NextNexus said:
I disagree and I posted in my previous post the exact wording from the disclaimer that they are referring to in your post. The disclaimer CLEARLY states that the warranty does not cover damage that occurs as a RESULT of the bootloader being unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Test it.
It's you (and maybe some lawyers) vs. a multi-billion dollar corporation. We can debate whether they should be applying the policy the way they've started to but if they turn down a warrantly claim you can't make them fix your phone (without lawyering up).
NextNexus said:
I disagree and I posted in my previous post the exact wording from the disclaimer that they are referring to in your post. The disclaimer CLEARLY states that the warranty does not cover damage that occurs as a RESULT of the bootloader being unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they may have left much wide open in their verbage, but luckily the legal crux is a part that is perfectly lucid. There is no way that flashing an "illegal" ( ) ROM can cause a physical hardware defect. The defect was not/nor could be a "result" from this action, and to claim such HTC are not abiding by their own posted terms.
---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
Test it.
It's you (and maybe some lawyers) vs. a multi-billion dollar corporation. We can debate whether they should be applying the policy the way they've started to but if they turn down a warrantly claim you can't make them fix your phone (without lawyering up).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Paolo (whomever that is) needs to test this, he is the one falsely cheated out of a warranty.
Clove and Handtec are the two biggest HTC online resellers in the UK. They've both confirmed from HTC that altering the s/w via a bootloader unlocked with HTCdev voids your warranty (in the EU). Unlocking the bootloader alone does not. This isn't theory, its practice. That's why the international forum is freaking out.
Whether they can get away with it in the long term is yet to be proven. But in the short term, this is something people considering using HTCdev should take in to account. Paolo has two options: 1) repair the phone at his expense, or 2) get it back the way he sent it. Fighting with HTC wasn’t a provided option. Debating whether or not the Titanic was unsinkable sort of became moot after it hit the iceberg.
I'm not defending or debating the correctness of HTC's actions, only pointing them out so no one here inadvertently becomes Paolo.
I'm writing this message since a lot of people are probably thinking that their warranty is still intact, since a lot of posts here and elsewhere claim that it is.
Before I unlocked my Telus One X, I wanted to be sure my warranty would be honored so I read all the materials I could, including the warranty text, the message on HTCDev.com, and various posts on this, and other forums.
Everything indicated that the warranty would only apply to direct consequences of the unlocked bootloader, eg: bricking your phone. This is reasonable, and it would be reasonable to assume that hardware defects would continue to be covered. I'm totally OK with that.
However, it seems that this is not, in fact, the case.
My One X recently started having a backlight issue, where squeezing the phone in the middle would cause the backlight to go out. Eventually, the backlight stopped working altogether, though I could see the screen if I looked hard enough in the right light, and it played sounds and received calls normally. I brought it in to my Telus dealer for repair and, since I'm in Canada, it was shipped to a company called FutureTel.
After a week, I had to chase down the status of my repair. Essentially FutureTel stated, according to the representative at the Telus dealer, that the phone was "beyond repair" and gave me the option of buying a replacement phone. I was given no more information.
This didn't make sense to me, so I started calling around to all involved. The dealer told me to call Telus.
Telus: We have nothing to do with that. The dealer sent it to HTC. You need to call HTC.
This is where it starts getting extremely odd...
HTC: We don't warranty these phones. We sell them to Telus/Rogers/Bell, and they "modify" them so we have nothing to do with it. We can't even provide a warranty due to this modification. For warranties, they contract FutureTel. You need to call them directly, here's their number
FutureTel: The warranty was denied due to "illegal software." (I asked what law was violated, and she wouldn't elaborate) We only handle warranties based on HTC policies. They are the only party that actually provides the warranty. Call them
HTC (again): Previous HTC guy was wrong. We set the policy, and the policy states that "If you root the device, your warranty is void."
This really bugged me, since I didn't see any such statement on any documentation from HTC or Telus, so I asked for clarification: "Where is this stated, and what, exactly, does it say?"
He responded with a lot of vague "in the warranty", and "on our website" answers but could not definitively find any such statement. I quoted the text from HTCDev.com and he said that didn't matter. It's the warranty, and directed me to a page on their website under support listing the warranty policies.
There is a curious omission of Canada in the list, and we went back and forth many times with him claiming I followed his instructions wrong before he eventually said, "just look at the United States one."
The thing is, It doesn't actually state what is claimed to be stated in that document, despite claims that it did. Under "LIMITED WARRANTY STATEMENT" Section 7, it lists the instances that void the warranty. Nothing about unlocking or bootloaders or software of any kind.
I kept asking for the exact section that voids the warranty, and eventually, he pointed to a section under the software EULA:
ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT MAY BE PROVIDED WITH THE
SOFTWARE IS INCLUDED FOR USE AT YOUR OPTION. IF YOU CHOOSE
TO USE SUCH THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, THEN SUCH USE SHALL BE
GOVERNED BY SUCH THIRD PARTY’S LICENSE AGREEMENT. HTC IS NOT
RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY THIRD PARTY’S SOFTWARE AND SHALL HAVE NO
LIABILITY FOR YOUR USE OF THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are familiar with EULAs and agreements, you know what this means: The phone comes with software preloaded that wasn't written by HTC: eg: Facebook. If you use that software, then it's own license will be in effect. Read this as: "Facebook is responsible for their own software. We just handed it to you"
No matter what I tried, I couldn't get the guy to accept the actual interpretation of the passage and he continued to state that it means that if I "use any 3rd-party software, the warranty is void."
Right then.
I asked for an escalation in hopes of getting someone who can parse the English language. Unfortunately, I got the same thing. She pointed to the exact same passage, claiming that it voids the warranty. I tried to point out how ridiculous that reading was: "With your interpretation, that means that any software I install, even via the Play store, voids the warranty." Her response: "It says nothing about apps."
Great. That section is entirely about apps...
So, I asked them that if this is the case, then to please amend the text on HTCDev.com to state clearly that the warranty is void if you continue. She said she would pass that along. (right...)
So here is the bottom line: HTC WILL NOT COVER YOUR PHONE IF YOU UNLOCK THE BOOTLOADER. If you are worried about your warranty and you are considering using HTCDev to unlock it, do not assume you will be covered as many other posts state.
If you want coverage, and you want to unlock, you really only have 2 options:
Unlock using another method that does not "mark" the phone
Get 3rd-party coverage from you provider or somewhere else. It seems that people have had good luck with those, despite bootloader status
I thought this was mentioned and must be agreed upon as soon as the HTCDev unlock process begins.
jacobas92 said:
I thought this was mentioned and must be agreed upon as soon as the HTCDev unlock process begins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is all it says on the matter:
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And:
This is a technical procedure and the side effects could possibly necessitate repairs to your device not covered under warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It specifically mentions issues related to the unlocking in all cases. There is no text that specifically voids the entire warranty at any point in the process. Also, in searches of XDA and other sites, I found MANY posts claiming that hardware issues are still covered and to have at it. I wanted to warn people about these posts since they come up at the the top when you Google it.
There are threads where people say they have gotten repairs, but it seems that they most likely had 3rd-party warranties via the carrier. (Sprint and Verizon both came up.)
When I unlocked my bootloader, I thought it was pretty clear that my warranty was void.
If youre unlocking your bootloader, you should at least have enough understanding of software and hardware to know that it's not hard to blame most hardware issues on software modifications. Obviously a large company will avoid added costs if they can.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
ILiPri case
exad said:
When I unlocked my bootloader, I thought it was pretty clear that my warranty was void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on what, though? I, along with many others, saw no reason to expect the whole warranty to be void, especially since there is no language to indicate this.
If you're talking about HTC not helping you if you brick your phone, then of course we would all expect that, and the language specifically says so.
A LOT of people are on these forums claiming that the phones WILL be covered for hardware defects, and this is not the case.
The worst part is that they are pointing to language relating to 3rd-party software that is pre-loaded by HTC themselves as the reason they won't honor the warranty. If this is how they are claiming that section is to be interpreted, then they can point to anybody who installed literally anything from the Play Store and say the warranty is void.
I'm not saying what they're doing is right. I'm just saying it's to be expected. I have yet to see such thing as a morally sound company.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Same exact thing happened to my phone, and a few other peoples. Seems weird.
Sent from my Nexus 4
jimfunk said:
Based on what, though? I, along with many others, saw no reason to expect the whole warranty to be void, especially since there is no language to indicate this.
If you're talking about HTC not helping you if you brick your phone, then of course we would all expect that, and the language specifically says so.
A LOT of people are on these forums claiming that the phones WILL be covered for hardware defects, and this is not the case.
The worst part is that they are pointing to language relating to 3rd-party software that is pre-loaded by HTC themselves as the reason they won't honor the warranty. If this is how they are claiming that section is to be interpreted, then they can point to anybody who installed literally anything from the Play Store and say the warranty is void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty much common sense. You're messing with a phone and changing software that is unofficial to the phone. There's reasons why it flags the phone in the hboot. If you brick you may be lucky enough to fool your provider and get a free one back but same with iPhones. If you break your phone while it is jailbroken and don't restore it before you take it to apple they won't repair your phone without a cost. It's still pretty much common sense
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda app-developers app
Megadoug13 said:
It's pretty much common sense. You're messing with a phone and changing software that is unofficial to the phone. There's reasons why it flags the phone in the hboot. If you brick you may be lucky enough to fool your provider and get a free one back but same with iPhones. If you break your phone while it is jailbroken and don't restore it before you take it to apple they won't repair your phone without a cost. It's still pretty much common sense
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It's common sense if I brick it, but not if there's a hardware defect, especially when the unlock was provided by HTC. There is also no language in any of the agreements that voids the warranty.
Not familiar with Apple, but if I buy a notebook and install Linux on it, my warranty is still intact, even though I replaced the bootloader. I've gone through that multiple times.
Finally, the whole point of this post was to make people aware that HTC won't honor the warranty, since there are many threads here where people say they will. I read those threads, along with all of the warranty information, and the text on HTCDev.com, before I went ahead with it. There was nothing official to indicate the warranty was void, and in fact many people suggested it would be honored.
jimfunk said:
Not familiar with Apple, but if I buy a notebook and install Linux on it, my warranty is still intact, even though I replaced the bootloader. I've gone through that multiple times.
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Comparing apples and oranges. You're partitioning and overwriting rewriteable Disk Space. This does not cause any damage. A better comparison would be flashing a modified bios on a videocard or motherboard which is ALSO NOT COVERED by any manufacturer.
When overwriting Read only memory, there is more risk involved and it takes skilled people to restore and repair. Software is specifically designed to work with the hardware contained within. This is also one of the reasons your phone OS may seem zippier than your PC.
I can completely understand why a company would not warrant a phone that's been messed with. It's difficult to narrow down the cause and eventhough some hardware failures are unlikely to be caused by unlocking your bootloader it can be difficult to determine. Then after they've spent time and money determining if bootloader unlocking is the cause of the hardware defect, the customer may not even want to pay to have it fixed.
exad said:
I can completely understand why a company would not warrant a phone that's been messed with. It's difficult to narrow down the cause and eventhough some hardware failures are unlikely to be caused by unlocking your bootloader it can be difficult to determine. Then after they've spent time and money determining if bootloader unlocking is the cause of the hardware defect, the customer may not even want to pay to have it fixed.
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If it's obvious that the cause was a manufacturing defect, the software doesn't matter.
In any case, the warranty text, and the text on HTCDev.com are clearly stated, regardless of what is "obvious" to you. There is NO reading of the materials that indicates that the warranty is void, and there ARE people out there telling others that it would be covered.
The whole purpose of a pre-defined agreement is that everybody knows where they stand BEFORE entering into that agreement. Neither party can change the rules afterwards, or enact hidden policies without ensuring that all parties are informed. There are laws in the US and Canada for exactly this kind of thing. If the whole thing was solely up to the discretion of the manufacturer, there wouldn't be warranty agreements in the first place.
jimfunk said:
If it's obvious that the cause was a manufacturing defect, the software doesn't matter.
In any case, the warranty text, and the text on HTCDev.com are clearly stated, regardless of what is "obvious" to you. There is NO reading of the materials that indicates that the warranty is void, and there ARE people out there telling others that it would be covered.
The whole purpose of a pre-defined agreement is that everybody knows where they stand BEFORE entering into that agreement. Neither party can change the rules afterwards, or enact hidden policies without ensuring that all parties are informed. There are laws in the US and Canada for exactly this kind of thing. If the whole thing was solely up to the discretion of the manufacturer, there wouldn't be warranty agreements in the first place.
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*Shrug*
"There are those who will insist on disabling S-ON purely to have full access regardless of security implications or to primarily promote specific tools and installation techniques that have taken the more convenient route of assuming all security is off. If a command line tool is deemed as inconvenient, developers can easily develop alternatives that would allow others to install their custom roms without having to alter their device’s Security-ON status. As duly noted in the accompanying email with your unlock_code.bin, please remember that unlocking your bootloader may void all or parts of your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC. Unlocking the bootloader is for development purposes only."
pulled that from FAQ on HTCDEV.com
exad said:
may void all or parts of your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC. Unlocking the bootloader is for development purposes only[/B]."
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This language is vague, and feeds the apparent consensus on these forums that HTC will still honor manufacturing defects as long as it's obviously not caused by the unlocking.
The reason legal language is written the way it is, is to ensure that the terms are clear. If they want to make it known that it will void the warranty, they should use different language, such as "unlocking your bootloader WILL void your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC"
This ambiguity has led to incorrect information being passed on these forums and showing up in Google searches on the topic.
It sounds like you are misreading the purpose of my post as a "poor me" story. It is not. I am taking my lumps and getting my phone fixed elsewhere. I simply wanted to make sure that anybody else curious about the topic will find some clear information when they search, instead of finding the many other posts that state that the warranty IS covered.
jimfunk said:
This language is vague, and feeds the apparent consensus on these forums that HTC will still honor manufacturing defects as long as it's obviously not caused by the unlocking.
The reason legal language is written the way it is, is to ensure that the terms are clear. If they want to make it known that it will void the warranty, they should use different language, such as "unlocking your bootloader WILL void your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC"
This ambiguity has led to incorrect information being passed on these forums and showing up in Google searches on the topic.
It sounds like you are misreading the purpose of my post as a "poor me" story. It is not. I am taking my lumps and getting my phone fixed elsewhere. I simply wanted to make sure that anybody else curious about the topic will find some clear information when they search, instead of finding the many other posts that state that the warranty IS covered.
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Unfortunately, while I whole heartedly agree that more people should know this, I doubt many will find this thread before it's too late.
if the device is s-off, the tampered message can be removed, ruu can be installed, the s-on flag can be set again, and the bootloader can be re-locked. That would remove any trace of root or unlocked bootloader.
I sent my devices back relocked, ruu'ed to the tampered flag was removed, and s-off for a microphone problem and HTC fixed it under warranty.
I think it depends on country, but in the end if you believe HTC/telus is breaking a contract or other laws you should get a lawyer and prove your point.
In Australia, where I live, the warranty is from the place of purchase and extends for a length of time that can be reasonably expected for that device.
Manufacturer warranties are not law and are purely given by manufacturers in good faith. If I buy from Telstra, Telstra must give a warranty and the warranty at least extends for the length of a contract the phone was puchased with eg 2 years.
Telstra having arrangments with HTC to fix warranty issues is upto Telstra and htc, it has zero to do with the customers statutory warranty from Telstra that is covered and protected by Australian consumer law.
Telstra can not void the devices warranty based on unlocking the bootloader.
Similar Harvey Norman's cannot void based on a void sticker over a screw being broken on a tv set.
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda app-developers app
ImagioX1 said:
I sent my devices back relocked, ruu'ed to the tampered flag was removed, and s-off for a microphone problem and HTC fixed it under warranty.
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I'm about to relock my phone, apply the ruu files and send it in for warranty. I was wondering if there is a thread to a proper proceedures in doing so? More to the point what you did with removing the tampered flag. If you were successful then would you mind giving more advice as to how.
Aren't disclaimers about our voided warranty posted all over forums?
Sent from my One X using xda app-developers app
dethpikil said:
Aren't disclaimers about our voided warranty posted all over forums?
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They also say your phone might experience explosions of puppy kisses. What is said on these forums has no bearing on warranty status in any country.
At best they are advice related to warranty status as the dev understands in their own country.
I think in most cases it is based on what is understood to be the case in USA. A country known to offer very little consumer protection.
"KNOX WARRANTY VOID" - only unfortunate wording? Please share your thoughts.
The flag everybody talks about is called "KNOX WARRANTY VOID". Considering that this text has been come up with by some non-native english speaking Korean it occured to me that this means actually something really different from what most people tend to understand. (I'm non-native English speaking too as you can see by reading this weird sentence, but I hope you get it nevertheless )
What most think of when they read "KNOX WARRANTY VOID":
"Device warranty void"
What I think of when I read "KNOX WARRANTY VOID":
"Knox warranty void".
Do you see the difference? I think that Samsung has to give some kind of warranty that the feature Knox works as it should (that means separating private data from enterprise data) in order to make companies use this feature. That's because they rely on it. Normally the flag is toggled by manipulating the device in a way that no one can assure that Knox works anymore as intended. A non-Samsung process running as root may cross process boundaries and give access to data it should not. So if a big company faces this situation they say: Hey Samsung, you assured that the device is secure but now look at this! The company could also make a claim for compensation!!!
But then Samsung can take a look at the device and say: "No way. The Knox warranty is void on this device. It is not secure anymore. It's written here."
That's it I think. It's not about denying the regular consumer warranty. It's about denying the warranty that the feature knox works as intended. That's why the flag is called "Knox warranty void". Maybe it's a bit unfortunately worded.
What do you think?
Your thought is just as valid as the other.
I guess someone from Samsung would need to inform us, or someone with a broken cellphone that is 0x1 would need to try to see if they could get it repaired or replaced under warranty.
Considering what Samsung did lately, the (for the customer) worst possible explanation is probably true.
What I read here, the phone is rootable and will boot without ever showing the knox flag. Maybe knox apps will not work anymore, but it stands to reason, that a sufficiently powerful enemy could likely modify the OS in a way to emulate the knox flag. To get around this, some kind of trusted cryptographic store would be needed, that only releases keys if the firmware checks out clean. However, if you have that, then you wouldn't need that efused flag in the first place. (Correct me please, if I am wrong here.)
I think your point may well be valid. I have read somewhere that people with the knox void are still getting their phone fixed by Samsung for free. .. so. ....
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Yes, I always assumed that it means the "Knox warranty" is void, not specifically the customer warranty. Basically the phone can't be used in a Knox environment anymore. To most end users this will have no impact since Knox is only useful to companies that will pay Samsung for the privilege... It's basically a push from Samsung to try to emulate the former success of Blackberry in large companies. I doubt it'll be very successful, and anyway it's already possible to root a device without triggering Knox, so in effect the warranty means absolutely nothing for the moment... (like most failed DRM schemes!)
I suppose it could be an issue for people who will want to resell the device in the future. Knox voided devices will probably sell a bit cheaper than pristine ones, even though it shouldn't matter to most buyers...
Several people have already reported being denied warranty service due to knox flag. OP your understanding of "Knox Warranty Void" is conjecture. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position there is no use in guessing. Why make their job easier by misguiding users to believe that you are speaking from a privileged position?
Bruce lee roy said:
Several people have already reported being denied warranty service due to knox flag. OP your understanding of "Knox Warranty Void" is conjecture. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position there is no use in guessing. Why make their job easier by misguiding users to believe that you are speaking from a privileged position?
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The truth is that his conjecture is just as possible as the current conjecture. Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.. "Warranty Void" is all that is needed if the customer's phone warranty was being voided.
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
But then again.. Without Samsung releasing a clear statement unequivocally stating their official position it's just 'guessing'.
It's also very clear, at least to me, that the OP was posing a question and not speaking from a privileged position.
Breach said:
Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.
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From the beginning, my understanding of it was like this:
Knox is a hardware assisted security architecture. The knox part in the warranty flag is to show that it is hardware assisted too, and so immune to resetting or tampering.
Of course, this is conjecture, too.
cgi said:
From the beginning, my understanding of it was like this:
Knox is a hardware assisted security architecture. The knox part in the warranty flag is to show that it is hardware assisted too, and so immune to resetting or tampering.
Of course, this is conjecture, too.
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Samsung Knox - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox
It's a mobile security and cloud identity technology. Knox is now described as an anti tampering technology. I makes sense that they would attempt to have a way to find out if the system was tampered with.
Time will tell..
Breach said:
The truth is that his conjecture is just as possible as the current conjecture. Why put the word "Knox" in there at all.. "Warranty Void" is all that is needed if the customer's phone warranty was being voided.
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Although I don't think you realize it, you've just proved my point with your double talk.
Breach said:
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
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... More conjecture
Breach said:
It's also very clear, at least to me, that the OP was posing a question and not speaking from a privileged position.
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Ending a post with a question mark does not automatically indicate the op's intention is to pose a question. The majority of the op is written as a statement: first starting off by stating an opinion that his/her control of the Korean language (privileged position) gives them a distinct advantage to interpret the legal jargon released by Samsung. This claim by itself is ridiculous. What does the Korean language have to do with the wording of a warranty for English speaking populations? Do you really think the multi billion dollar international conglomerate, known as Samsung, is incapable of producing a decent translation on the TITLE of their legally binding warranty? Seriously people...
I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
Sent from my Galaxy Note III using Tapatalk
RavenY2K3 said:
I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
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You actually got a straight answer out of them? In plain and legible English? I can hardly believe it...
Bruce lee roy said:
Although I don't think you realize it, you've just proved my point with your double talk.
... More conjecture
Ending a post with a question mark does not automatically indicate the op's intention is to pose a question. The majority of the op is written as a statement: first starting off by stating an opinion that his/her control of the Korean language (privileged position) gives them a distinct advantage to interpret the legal jargon released by Samsung. This claim by itself is ridiculous. What does the Korean language have to do with the wording of a warranty for English speaking populations? Do you really think the multi billion dollar international conglomerate, known as Samsung, is incapable of producing a decent translation on the TITLE of their legally binding warranty? Seriously people...
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I think you are taking this whole subject wayyyy to personally. Relax bro.
It's ALL conjecture at this point, until proven otherwise. In the end, who really cares? Sure, if we can do it without voiding our warranty, that's great. If we can't.. we will void our warranties happily anyways. That is the true way of modders.
Breach said:
I think you are taking this whole subject wayyyy to personally. Relax bro.
It's ALL conjecture at this point, until proven otherwise. In the end, who really cares? Sure, if we can do it without voiding our warranty, that's great. If we can't.. we will void our warranties happily anyways. That is the true way of modders.
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At some point you have to walk away and hope the horse at least has the common sense not to wonder off the edge of a cliff.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
RavenY2K3 said:
I emailed Samsung about whether the warranty is void or not if it's triggered, twice (as I asked for clarification) and on both occasions they informed me that if any of those counters are anything other than 0x0, you will lose all rights to a warranty repair. Whether it's something like the home button falling off, they will screw you over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which really brings us back to the legality of the situation. In many countries (including most of Europe and Australia) the statutory warranty put in place by legislation cannot be denied. The statutory warranty doesn't recognise something like rooting or custom ROMs as a valid reason do deny service, unless the device failure was caused by that action. So from a legal standpoint they cannot deny warranty service based on this, regardless of what they say or put in their own warranty agreement. They really aren't allowed to pick arbitrary reasons to deny service.
On the other hand - try and get it. If Samsung refuse to repair your device under warranty, you would probably have to take them to court to compel them to repair it, and I just don't see anyone trying that. Interestingly enough, whether it would be a valid clause or not, I can't see anything in Samsung's warranty agreement that says modifying the device voids the warranty. Only the standard out that damage *caused by* tampering with the device isn't covered........
cgi said:
Considering what Samsung did lately, the (for the customer) worst possible explanation is probably true.
What I read here, the phone is rootable and will boot without ever showing the knox flag. Maybe knox apps will not work anymore, but it stands to reason, that a sufficiently powerful enemy could likely modify the OS in a way to emulate the knox flag. To get around this, some kind of trusted cryptographic store would be needed, that only releases keys if the firmware checks out clean. However, if you have that, then you wouldn't need that efused flag in the first place. (Correct me please, if I am wrong here.)
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KNOX stuff still works even if the flag is 0x1.
---------------------
I personally see it as 0x0, your data is secure, 0x1, data is secured with knox, but the system has been compromised and no way to guarantee it is truly secure.
Bruce lee roy said:
At some point you have to turn your back and hope the horse at least has the common sense not play near the edge of a cliff.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
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One horse's cliff may be another horse's hurdle.
So what you are saying is that if you knew rooting your Note 3 would void your warranty, you wouldn't root it?
If I can preserve my warranty and still get root, I will.. otherwise, screw the warranty. That's why I am here.
---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------
It's funny when I say one thing, Bruce calls it double talk...
Breach said:
"Knox Warranty" sounds like a way for them to decide if they need to warranty data loss or theft. A way for them to determine is a system as been modified allowing someone admin/root access to the 'secured' data.
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but when someone says the same thing in a different way..
designgears said:
I personally see it as 0x0, your data is secure, 0x1, data is secured with knox, but the system has been compromised and no way to guarantee it is truly secure.
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Bruce agrees by 'Thanking' the guy.
Seriously. Getting Knoxed should be a meme
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
Ever owned an Xbox? PS3? Or maybe an old VCR? Television? Microwave? Fridge?
Seen the sticker on the inside? The one that says "If this seal is broken, warranty is void"?
Exact same thing.
Seraphim401 said:
Seriously. Getting Knoxed should be a meme
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
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Good one!