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When it comes to no cost, data-dependent GPS solutions, Android has a great app in the form of Google Navigator.
But as someone who travels fairly frequently and can go to all sorts of places in areas I've never even heard of (and not friendly to HSDPA), that sort of solution was simply not viable. I needed a GPS app that worked offline, had routing options, and allowed me to set advanced settings for it to work as I needed. Typically, my GPS app of choice has always been Tomtom, though I also liked Navigon, and considered iGo My Way/Roadmate to be viable choices. Unfortunately, as I'm sure many are aware, the major GPS manufacturers haven't released a single GPS app for Android...with none seeming to be on the horizon.
However, while browsing the Android Market, I did come upon one solution I'm also familiar with: CoPilot Live. I remember my experience with it (on the iPhone) as being rather iffy, but it seemed to be the only good choice on Android, so I decided to give it a second chance. Well, today, after a week or two of usage, and after coming back from a journey to yet another new place in another state, I think I'm ready to give my assessment of CPL.
I don't like it.
Frequently throughout the trip, CPL had me driving around in circles. Other issues include jumpy location fixes (it would frequently indicate I'm on a road I'm not or say I passed a road I didn't). In one case, it even completely listed the name of a road on the info bar incorrectly...despite having the correct name on the actual map. Other times, it would freeze after telling me to make a turn thus making me miss the next intended turn or, best of all, tell me to make a turn only to then afterwards ask me to make a U-Turn.
The funny thing was that even when it did work fine (which was about 60% of the trip), the routing it gave was baffling. Leaving my house, I asked CPL to give me the most 'economical' routing. This is actually one of my favorite routing options CPL has -- it gives you the routing that saves gas, yet does not increase the travel time by too much. It worked well too; the routing it gave me saved over 10 miles, but did not take too much longer than the normal route.
So the routing on my way out worked fine, but the routing for the way back? Not so much. Going back, I decided to ask CPL to give me the 'quickest' routing. Now, I had also asked it to avoid tolls if possible, so logically, it should have taken me back to the 'economical' route (which had no tolls) for a part of the way before jumping me out onto a faster highway.
Instead, it seemed to have done the exact opposite: It took me through the toll, then promptly jumped me back into the 'economical' route for the rest of the way home.
Afterwards, out of curiosity, I decided to look up the turn list for 'quickest' and 'economical' towards the location I went to. The routing were almost exactly the same with only small changes. I set CPL to allow tolls and tried again; same routing as before. It seemed as if one of the best (and very well known) interstate highways used for traveling was completely left out of CPL's routing. Why is this the case? Hell if I know.
I could go on all day -- but sufficed to say, it wasn't what I had expected. It's probably unfair of me to assess it the way I did considering it's less established and (probably) less well funded than the likes of Navigon, but that's the way I feel. It's a shame really. I've been using my handheld electronics for GPS since I first discovered that my Palm TX was capable of such a thing, but at this rate, I may have to end up buying a Tomtom GPS unit.
What are the odds that your location issues are from the faulty GPS drivers and will be fixed in the forthcoming firmware update?
CoPilot's maps are the worst. They use their own data instead of using Navteq or TeleAtlas and their maps are atleast 5 years out of date in my area.
So far, I haven't found a standalone GPS app I like in Android either.
I like and use waze all the time. Doesnt work too well with the crap gps on here but on winmo it was the best app.
I used the stock samsung one that comes on the european roms that works pretty well
fooldog01 said:
What are the odds that your location issues are from the faulty GPS drivers and will be fixed in the forthcoming firmware update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Almost none, I'd say.
Unlike many here, I haven't experienced any GPS issues with my Captivate. Lock-on speeds are fairly quick (it seems comparable to what I experienced on the iPhone and HTC Fuze) and the GPS fix remains in all applicable areas and not in others (bridges, forest, etc). Aside from all of that, The problem doesn't appear nearly as much with Google Navigator.
smokestack76 said:
I like and use waze all the time. Doesnt work too well with the crap gps on here but on winmo it was the best app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's the case, I wished I had tried Waze back when I had owned a WinMo phone, but the problem was that WinMo had fantastic GPS solutions, so I didn't bother using the less well known brands.
I would love an "offline" GPS App. Whatever happened to Navigon USA?
smokestack76 said:
I like and use waze all the time. Doesnt work too well with the crap gps on here but on winmo it was the best app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Waze is still an online solution like Google Navigation. It downloads the maps and data as you drive, so if you go out of coverage, you're stuck, unless it cached enough of the map to still work with no signal.
mindfrost82 said:
Waze is still an online solution like Google Navigation. It downloads the maps and data as you drive, so if you go out of coverage, you're stuck, unless it cached enough of the map to still work with no signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why i like waze. Even in areas that i have no reception it still works ok. And still works ok with the crap gps on the captivate for now. So all good with me And i drive a truck so i use it alot. So far no issues that were too bad
I've been using Sygic Mobile Maps for about a month so far. It is an "off-line" Nav App.
I like it so far, was just up in Canada, on the north side of Lake Superior, with no cell/data service and it worked great. Has a pretty good POI database. Even allows you to navigate to Contacts.
Navigon for Android
Navigon actually makes an Android version now.
Not sure if they have any US maps for it yet though.
Video of Sygic
Found a video of Sygic Mobile Maps 10 running on a Galaxy S phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfDodvbyl2w
ozone777 said:
Navigon actually makes an Android version now.
Not sure if they have any US maps for it yet though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah no maps yet for the US.... hopefully soon..
NDrive for Android
NDrive also has a version for Android.
http://www.ndriveweb.com/products/product/96/
US maps are available.
Get it with a 7 day free trial from the Market Place.
ozone777 said:
Navigon actually makes an Android version now.
Not sure if they have any US maps for it yet though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't. Aside from that, even if they did have it, the Android version of Navigon is not supported on the Captivate; the APK is available, but without a supported phone, registering appears to be impossible (as registering requires you to enter the last four digit of your phone number which then goes through Navigon's servers).
ozone777 said:
NDrive also has a version for Android.
Get it with a 7 day free trial from the Market Place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give it a try.
I also travel extensively. After trying every possible phone based GPS (iPhone, B-berry and Android), i came to the conclusion that, while some are better than the others, none of them are reliable enough to be used exclusively. So, I still carry a dedicated unit that always gets me from point A to point Z.
myx0mop said:
I also travel extensively. After trying every possible phone based GPS (iPhone, B-berry and Android), i came to the conclusion that, while some are better than the others, none of them are reliable enough to be used exclusively. So, I still carry a dedicated unit that always gets me from point A to point Z.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can understand your sentiment.
Even on the iPhone and WinMo (both of which had great GPS apps), I still felt the need to occasionally turn to Google Maps to supplement my driving. With GM plus whatever GPS app I was using, I never had trouble navigating regardless of where I was going.
Aside from that, as I said, my primary GPS software of choice is Tomtom. I'm not so sure about the other GPS companies, but Tomtom uses the same GPS software in phones as they do in their dedicated GPS units, so there really is no benefit to using their dedicated unit as opposed to their phone versions. In fact, I would actually dare claim the phone version is better due to more functionality from the integration with your phone.
I have TomTom on my 3Gs, but the problem is not with the software, which is fine, but with the phone that periodically loses the GPS lock.
I've used TomTom for 3+ years on my WinMo phone, and it has worked perfectly.
They only problem I have wiht TomTom is they don't 'officially' support my Tilt, and getting U.S. Maps was a pain. Due to that, I've been thinking of not going back with TomTom if/when they do come out wiht SW for Android.
But, if nothing else is available, or is not any good, I ultimately may go back with them. But only if my phone is supported, (which will be the Captivate).
myx0mop said:
I have TomTom on my 3Gs, but the problem is not with the software, which is fine, but with the phone that periodically loses the GPS lock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, that's strange. I'm a former 3GS owner and I would actually rank its GPS as among the best I've ever used. Extremely fast lock-ons in virtually every condition (including the inside of my home) and I've never experienced a lost GPS lock under normal conditions, even during the one time I used it when I had to drive 200 miles out of state.
Meh, but being the owner of the Captivate, I know fully well how much the experience varies with different owners. Aside from that, the ability to field phone calls and use the GPS at the same time must be nice.
So I've had a project for the last few months getting Android running as an infotainment system. Here is a demo i thought i'd share with you guys..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNcDq9S8n3I
Basic features:
Android 2.1 (looking to update to GB)
7inch touch-screen (800x480)
3G modem
GPS
Reverse camera (backup camera to see what's behind you)
USB port
would love to hear some criticism or anything regarding the device.. its not perfect, its got a few bugs and glitches.. but is sort of ready for everyday use but is missing a few components to make it 'official' android device (wifi, bluetooth etc).. but i'm just wondering if anyone is interested in something like this? Is this worth developing further on?
This thing runs on Cortex a8 omap3530 board and is based off 0xdroid build.
apologies if im in the wrong forum
Wow dude, thats really cool! I'd love one of these for my car. If you could get Honeycomb on that bad boy it'd be sweet! Just wondering, how do you plan on setting up a rear view camera? Just connect a camera at the back of the car to the tablet itself, then run the Camera app? Seems like the simplest way to me..
Haha cheers love to see the honeycomb source once its out then we'll talk although I'd imagine i'd need better hardware...
currently camera is interfaced by usb (has a usb hub) so i got a cable running under the carpet through the boot then camera is mounted on the bumper. yup camera is called by any camera calling intent.. so any app can use it.
I want to get some proximity sensors (like parking sensors) and write a proper reverse cam app to complement it. But we'll see...
Very cool!
I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I was going to use MeeGo or maybe Moblin since I don't have the programming skills (or Android knowledge for that matter) to build my own computer around Android. I dig what you got so far though.
My suggestion for the reverse camera is one of two things, because it would bug me to have to find and open the camera app every time I needed to back up.
Keep your touchscreen (what model are you using BTW?) and use a bluetooth or wi-fi relay (I know they make 'em, but they are $$$) to provide an input from +12V signal from your reverse light wire to automatically open the camera app, then close the app. Of course, you'd have to program for that.
Or
Have you considered this touch screen? Lilliput 7" touch screen with auto-reverse input. (Needs a RCA camera though)
http://store.mp3car.com/Lilliput_629GL_70NP_C_T_7_VGA_Touchscreen_w_Aut_p/MON-016-0002.htm
This is the one I plan on using since it switches automatically to the camera input whenever you are in reverse. Once you go back to any other gear, the OS input shows up again.
Just a thought to make life a little more convenient (although you already bought your parts so you may be stuck.)
chjade84 said:
Very cool!
I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I was going to use MeeGo or maybe Moblin since I don't have the programming skills (or Android knowledge for that matter) to build my own computer around Android. I dig what you got so far though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! It needs a lot of time and dedication but it's a real good learning curve. I had to learn a lot of things on the way.. especially c/c++ I wasn't great at but had decent skills with higher level programming.
If you are planning to work with MeeGo its a little fussy with the hardware requirements.. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you need an Intel Atom processor. These are a little pricey if you're after an evaluation/hackable kit! But I'd imagine it'll be easier to program as it's a lot more closey coupled with linux.
chjade84 said:
My suggestion for the reverse camera is one of two things, because it would bug me to have to find and open the camera app every time I needed to back up.
Keep your touchscreen (what model are you using BTW?) and use a bluetooth or wi-fi relay (I know they make 'em, but they are $$$) to provide an input from +12V signal from your reverse light wire to automatically open the camera app, then close the app. Of course, you'd have to program for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had a look at those relays, sounds like its something I really need! Is this how the standard backup cameras work? That was something I was confused about.. I wasn't sure how to detect if i'm on reverse.. especially with the parts I already had. I'd imagine once you implement it you just need a service running in the background to listen for the relay.
The touchscreen is a TFT resistive 4wire touch-screen. It's not something I want to keep as I really want capacitive multi-touch.. But this fits perfectly with the board and was easier to deal with
chjade84 said:
Or
Have you considered this touch screen? Lilliput 7" touch screen with auto-reverse input. (Needs a RCA camera though)
http://store.mp3car.com/Lilliput_629GL_70NP_C_T_7_VGA_Touchscreen_w_Aut_p/MON-016-0002.htm
This is the one I plan on using since it switches automatically to the camera input whenever you are in reverse. Once you go back to any other gear, the OS input shows up again.
Just a thought to make life a little more convenient (although you already bought your parts so you may be stuck.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find! I wish I saw that earlier .. Quite pricey but would make life so much easierrrrr!
Cheers for the feedback! Best of luck for your project!
tknz said:
I just had a look at those relays, sounds like its something I really need! Is this how the standard backup cameras work? That was something I was confused about.. I wasn't sure how to detect if i'm on reverse.. especially with the parts I already had. I'd imagine once you implement it you just need a service running in the background to listen for the relay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think most factory backup cameras use two inputs and switch between them. I don't have a lot of experience with them though.
chjade84 said:
I think most factory backup cameras use two inputs and switch between them. I don't have a lot of experience with them though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean exactly. I'll try the relays because it at-least gives me a standard interface to work with (bluetooth or wifi) so there isn't any work you have to deal with on the hardware abstraction.. Although it would probably be better designed if I had some sort of voltage input coming when the vehicle on reverse (the reverse light as mentioned). But I don't really have the electrical expertise to make it happen lol.
tknz said:
Not sure what you mean exactly. I'll try the relays because it at-least gives me a standard interface to work with (bluetooth or wifi) so there isn't any work you have to deal with on the hardware abstraction.. Although it would probably be better designed if I had some sort of voltage input coming when the vehicle on reverse (the reverse light as mentioned). But I don't really have the electrical expertise to make it happen lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well essentially what I was thinking was you'd have the bluetooth relay hooked up to your reverse light wire. This should allow your computer to monitor whether or not your car was in reverse. Relays are pretty simple - one input switches on/off another, usually one of a much higher or lower voltage. So in essence, it's a switch activated by voltage. (There used to be an electromagnet inside that physically moves a piece of metal to make a connection when a voltage is applied - now it's all transistors and whatnot.)
So, if you are in reverse and your reverse lights are getting power, the bluetooth relay should sense that and signal the computer (through a serial command it seems) which in turn could tell a background service to open the camera app. Once the voltage from the reverse light wire is lost, the relay should again tell the computer that you aren't in reverse anymore and the background service would close the camera app and re-open whatever app you were in.
*I should note this is all "in theory"... I don't know exactly how those wireless relays work/communicate and I don't know Android programming at all.
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking what about using the GPIOs on the board and attach that to the reverse light? would that be possible? and using some resistors on the way to limit the voltages so i don't fry the board.. but we just need to detect some voltage input...
Not sure, will look into it. Right now, taking a pause on the development.. Got a lot of work to take care of but I can't wait to get back into it. I really want to port this to gingerbread.
tknz said:
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking what about using the GPIOs on the board and attach that to the reverse light? would that be possible? and using some resistors on the way to limit the voltages so i don't fry the board.. but we just need to detect some voltage input...
Not sure, will look into it. Right now, taking a pause on the development.. Got a lot of work to take care of but I can't wait to get back into it. I really want to port this to gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could possibly do that, a real cheap voltage regulator would probably be better though. You could also use a cheap relay if the correct voltage is already somewhere on the car. Again, I'm not too sure how those bluetooth relays work, but it sounds like you are on the right track.
Great Job!
I was thinking of doing something similar myself.
I am looking at going with one of the tablets as it is just seems easier? I only really need internet, google maps(GPS) and wifi tethering. I would imagine you are running stereo sound from a 3.5mm? I would still have a seperate head unit to control volume and handle all the regular functions as well as inputs from a 3.5 to RCA cable.
How are you running sound off that setup? Are you running a head unit still?
The sound is running off a small amplifier. then RCA to 3.5mm.
Haven't had the chance to play around with the wifi tether as right now i don't have a wifi card.. It would make sense to have wifi tethering or just wifi reciever and use a phone to tether 3g to the system. Avoids having separate data plans.
Can we get a copy of your "AIVI Car Home" for our own DIY projects?
I don't mind releasing the source for it. Its just right now its a bit messy and quite a few things are hardcoded.
tknz said:
So I've had a project for the last few months getting Android running as an infotainment system. Here is a demo i thought i'd share with you guys..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice project. I gutted a Clarion Mind last year to do pretty much the same thing but am looking to upgrade. You said the software needs work but it's a real good start. Would you mind sharing your hardware list with us?
Nice work!
Something I was also interested in seeing is having vehicle manufacturer recommended service intervals and such available as reminders from your in car system or phone or both.
Stu_Gotti said:
Something I was also interested in seeing is having vehicle manufacturer recommended service intervals and such available as reminders from your in car system or phone or both.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could use 'aCar' which, if you are unfamiliar, you enter the make, model, mileage and all the pertinent service requirements. Battery every 3 years or 50,000 miles, coolant every year or 15,000 miles, oil every 6 months or 3,000 miles, etc. Then, every time you get gas you enter the current mileage as well as gallons/liters of fuel and the price. From that information you not only get your MPG but it will also trigger reminders to do the necessary maintenance at the correct intervals when they come up. You can do this for multiple cars as well. It's a very good program.
On a related note to this thread, I started my own 'carputer' project using an Archos 70 Internet Tablet and an unused articulating wall mount for TVs. It's still a work in progress as well since I don't have all the parts yet but will do everything I wanted (eventually... lol) except the rear facing camera. The video is obviously just of the media player.
I shot this late last night to show a friend. He wanted to know why someone would want a tablet/computer in their car, lol. Sorry about it being so dark.
Dude
I am keen as mustard on one of these beauties, I was considering running xp MCE but the android option would be much nicer..
Love ya work.
tknz said:
I don't mind releasing the source for it. Its just right now its a bit messy and quite a few things are hardcoded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please do. Would love to play with it. No matter how clean the code is it's just gonna get better...
thanks for showing it..
Anyone think that they could replace a obd2 ecm/ecu with an android phone?
therealmaximus said:
Anyone think that they could replace a obd2 ecm/ecu with an android phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may be wrong, but:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque
ive seen these, they just read parameters from the computer via the obd diagnostic port, what i meant was actually removing the the obd computer and using an android device to receive the incoming sensor data and use the data such as rpm, throttle position, and so forth to advance or retard timing tables and fuel tables to actually run the engine i have tuning software for my honda that i can run and retune my engine with but only from my laptop id like to be able to do this with an android device.
[A] 😉 let me know
That's an interesting question and not what I thought it was when I first read your initil post. Reading it literally you're asking about replacing the actual 'brain' that conductor that co-ordinates the entire ignition,fueling,emmisions and other secondary parameters that make the engine run in a harmonious symphony(oh, whatever happened to self metering by atmospheric pressure drop and contact breakers lol). I read it as taking out the OE ecu/ecm/powertrain module or whatever other term you use for it and replacing it with an android device. An interesting exercise but hardly worth the mountain range of problems involved considering you can go out and buy a custom fully programmable ECU anyway.
That is how it sounds though when you say replacing the ecu with an android device. i.e removing the ecu and putting in one running android or a piggyback ecu running amdroid....... i know, i'm being maybe a little too pedantic but it drew me in and made me read the thread and am definitely interested in finding out if there are any android apps that can reprogram or flash an ecu similar to the ones that run on windows.
I've mentioned in another thread I have a deep knowledge and experience in the car side of the equation but my knowledge of computers themselves ranks about 'interested in knowinf more but basically capable of using one n that's it' level. Or tge same as 99.99% of car drivers. They can drive but beyond that all they really know is where to out the petrol in although 100,000s of them will say they know all about cars lol.
In other words, I see know reason why technically there are no equivalent android apps/devices that can do what software packages running windows you use on a laptop. I'm in a similar but different position than you. I really want that ability to remap/flash new firmware onto ecu's except right now I don't have a laptop or desktop of any kind right now. All my online and computer needs are admirably dealt with on my Note 3 so i haven't bothered replacing either my pc or laptop when they passed on.
Was on ebay recently and seen very interesting and potentially useful software claiming to be able communicate fully with any obd1 and 2 ecus allowing you to reset, remap and 'chip' any ecus and also fully set up a new replacement custom reprogrammable ecu too although i am skeptical you could buy one that fully capable for £20 off ebay but they promise full customer support and the ability to download an entire remap for almost any make amd model so perhaps their claims are based on the abilitynof their product rather than merely sales rhetoric.
Anyway, what I mean is I see no reason why if windows can fully communicate with obd2 and android can also read current and pending dtcs, display freeze frame, live data and allow you, if you know the particular formula, to view data with custom PIDs then it seems possible that a software package written for android couldn't be capable of doing wnat these windows/mac programmes can do. I'm sure I've seen linux compatible software for desktops out there so surely an android version is poasible. BUT as i explained my knowledge of computer systems/languages is risible so there may well be a glaringly obvious reason that android is unsuitable (there's probably 1000s of 10 year olds laughing lije mad thinking is this guy stupid or what lol).
BUT if you ever come accross such an software package that runs on android let me know because if not it looks like I'm going to have to go buy this 20 odd quid ebay software AND a bloody laptop on top to bw able to use it
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?
soraxd said:
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this would be possible by turning them on remotely over a network. similar to waking a PC on LAN.
similar to
Wake on LAN is technology that allows someone to turn on a network computer remotely by sending a special data packet (called a Magic Packet). Even if the computer is turned off, the network adapter is still "listening" on the network, so when the special packet arrives, the network adapter can turn on the computer.
Wake on LAN is mainly used by system administrators to perform computer maintenance tasks remotely. The computer receiving the Magic Packet must have a motherboard, network adapter, adapter driver, and computer basic input/output system (BIOS) that work with Wake on LAN.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
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When the computer is 'off' it is not really 'off' there is still power on the computer. I doubt whether a phone is still 'listening' to a GSM or 3G/4G network while OFF. Wouldn't you notice a huge drain the next time you start your phone? I think it is not as simple as with a regular desktop pc.
Edit: A simple google search gives me nothing on waking up my phone by GSM/3G/4G/WLAN.
Anyone else ?
Robin>Hood said:
When the computer is 'off' it is not really 'off' there is still power on the computer. I doubt whether a phone is still 'listening' to a GSM or 3G/4G network while OFF. Wouldn't you notice a huge drain the next time you start your phone? I think it is not as simple as with a regular desktop pc.
Edit: A simple google search gives me nothing on waking up my phone by GSM/3G/4G/WLAN.
Anyone else ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, its not the same as a PC, but it does have a power source to maintain its date and time and what not's may or may not be embedded in its chips, just to get an idea about chips, read this
Hence it can be not only a software issue but can also be a hardware issue.
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.
That is interesting, I knew some of that but never really digged into it. Do you know anybody has tried to locate the chip, I mean on the software side, so a it could be like, disabled software side, so it wouldnbt be of any use?
Also I'm downloading the documentary is just finished downloading :good: Thank you for sharing that with the world Sir.
Robin>Hood said:
That is interesting, I knew some of that but never really digged into it. Do you know anybody has tried to locate the chip, I mean on the software side, so a it could be like, disabled software side, so it wouldnbt be of any use?
Also I'm downloading the documentary is just finished downloading :good: Thank you for sharing that with the world Sir.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off hand such info would be difficult to obtain, and most likely not available to most. In addition Chip manufacturers can be compelled to "implant" certain things into their chips that even phone manufacturers will not be aware of by relevant concerns, so its pretty much a dark area for end users. Than comes software , which also can be incorporated with the requirements of agencies that have interest for such requirements,
end of the day, just to give you an idea on software just saw a post made today let me quote http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=46060254&postcount=78
silentvisitor said:
Profiling or citizen database in any way is/can be dangerous. Nobody can guarantee future.
Lets have a look at what all information does Google have about YOU through your Android phone :
YOUR NAME
01. Your picture
02. Your complete Contact list with pictures, e-mail ids, phone numbers, birthdays, etc.
03. Whom you met or gonna meet (Calendar) (Btw, there were digital and much powerful calendars way before Google Calendar e.g BlackBerry)
04. With whom you talked, when and how long (Call log) (Read Privacy Policy \ Log information )
05. Your family and other images (Picasa web albums) (Google+ auto-upload)
06. Your WiFi passwords (device backup)
07. Where you are located or went (location)
08. Which sites you visited (Android browser google login)
09. Which device/s you own.
10. Your files (Google drive) (no encryption) (Also Gmail attachments)
11. What you searched (Google search and Now)
12. Your pic (Chrome has Camera permissions) (everything can be used in two ways)
13. Your daily route (Google Now)
14. What you talked with someone through chat (GTalk) (its their servers, right)
15. Finally, your emails and its contents. Read this (I believe we will see many such things in near future as awareness increases)
Ever heard about NSA or PRISM
There is much more to it than meets the eye or this list.
Today, Google and Facebook (primarily Google) knows more about you than your own parents or spouse and that's frightening. If not today then tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.
Yes I know, but at least I made a choice in this, giving them my information, if I wanted to I could use a nokia 3310 or something similar. But I'm a online junkie I guess.
Maybe it doesn't matter that much in a year or 1, 2 maybe 3 lol:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/us-japan-fukushima-insight-idUSBRE97D00M20130814
I can see a GPS transceiver in the phone potentially working while the phone is off to give information on where the phone is (like a tracking bug or whatever), but I don't think they'd be able to listen in while the phone is off. Similar to what others have said, regarding WOL packets etc... phone would have to be on and connected to a cell tower to transmit the audio data....
If you're really worried, take out the battery Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!
Even if the government could listen to your calls why should it matter? Unless you are doing something wrong it should matter right? Maybe it's just me that would rather them listen in and potentially prevent an attack by doing so. Just me I guess. So how about that Galaxy Note 3... Nice piece of work there.
Sent from the Galaxy Ssssss 4 . If I was able to assist please Thank me so I know.
drumst1x said:
I can see a GPS transceiver in the phone potentially working while the phone is off to give information on where the phone is (like a tracking bug or whatever), but I don't think they'd be able to listen in while the phone is off. Similar to what others have said, regarding WOL packets etc... phone would have to be on and connected to a cell tower to transmit the audio data....
If you're really worried, take out the battery Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, :laugh: All phones have an internal lithium-ion battery to maintain the date and time so to speak, maybe its time to look inside your phone or just download a technical manual to know better . There is nothing magical or conspiratorial about it actually, since you a transferring music, video, images & power (heard of wireless charging?), over the Air. Activating a phone or just its modem must be impossible?
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.
xsenman said:
LOL, :laugh: All phones have an internal lithium-ion battery to maintain the date and time so to speak, maybe its time to look inside your phone or just download a technical manual to know better . There is nothing magical or conspiratorial about it actually, since you a transferring music, video, images & power (heard of wireless charging?), over the Air. Activating a phone or just its modem must be impossible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dang, quoting you was difficult, having to strip out all that signature stuff!
I know that there's a Li-Ion in there, but those batteries are used to keep a timeclock alive. I don't know THAT much about batteries, but we have these massive batteries in our phones that tremendously increase our phones' weight just so we can have 4-6 hrs of "moderate use".... I would tend to think (again, i'm not an expert on the subject, just giving my 2 cents) that the tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right? Sure, you could say it can grab the charge from the main battery etc, but couldn't we easily enough find out if there is any kind of electromagnetic signature or radio wave coming out of the devices when off? I'm sure someone out there in the interwebs has a device that can tell us this (a la Ghost Hunters or something?).
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.
drumst1x said:
Dang, quoting you was difficult, having to strip out all that signature stuff!
I know that there's a Li-Ion in there, but those batteries are used to keep a timeclock alive. I don't know THAT much about batteries, but we have these massive batteries in our phones that tremendously increase our phones' weight just so we can have 4-6 hrs of "moderate use".... I would tend to think (again, i'm not an expert on the subject, just giving my 2 cents) that the tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right? Sure, you could say it can grab the charge from the main battery etc, but couldn't we easily enough find out if there is any kind of electromagnetic signature or radio wave coming out of the devices when off? I'm sure someone out there in the interwebs has a device that can tell us this (a la Ghost Hunters or something?).
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said, couldn't put it in better way.
There are actually many more tracking devices available and more effective than our phone, such as your brain waves.
drumst1x said:
tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right?
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently, you seem to miss the point mate, the OP has seen
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off.
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Click to collapse
this on CBS and wondering how this can be done on an android without being noticed.
Whereas you try to brush it aside by saying
Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what I am saying is , it only needs a small amount of internal power source to trigger the main functions of the phone as and when needed by those who have needs for such capabilities. Now to wonder how it is or was done is all well and good but to try an suggest its just another conspiracy theory would be like sticking your head in the ground like an ostrich.
Let me take you back to the OP's question how is it possible without being noticed by the user, that is where, if the only the modem or only the MIC is activated / triggered, than there will be nothing to hear or see on the phone.(meaning phone will look inactive but is actively transmitting everything )
This thread is not about what can be done or cannot be done, its about not sticking over heads in the grounds and being aware of our situation
how text messages & WIFI can trigger
Now for the facts
The FBI develops some hacking tools internally and purchases others from the private sector. With such technology, the bureau can remotely activate the microphones in phones running Google Inc.'s GOOG +0.11% Android software to record conversations, one former U.S. official said. It can do the same to microphones in laptops without the user knowing, the person said. Google declined to comment.
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Source
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.
I'm certainly not trying to say it's impossible. Just saying that there are MANY ways we are tracked, and it wouldn't be the most efficient to track (when phone is off) using Li-ion battery. Not saying it's not happening.
All this talk has made me want to purchase a device that can detect bugs / activity. Not only around the phone, but around the house, the car, etc... i'm getting more and more paranoid!
soraxd said:
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting topic. Time for some imagination to run wild.
Yes, technically, it is possible for a government to listen in to any cellphone they wish to, even when it is turned off.
How? To implant a self-contained, self-powered, eavesdropping chip to each and every phone being sold in the country. The configuration of this eavesdropper is left to anyone's imagination of science & espionage fiction, e.g., remote power on/off, induction charging (aka "wireless" charging) of built-in battery, gps tracking, etc.
Do-able? Highly unlikely, imho. Not for every phone that will be sold to the general public, at least.
The logistics will be too massive a challenge because this eavesdropping chip has to be implanted into every phone, and cellphone models change so frequently. The engineering time and effort, involved to implant this chip to each cellphone's mainboard seamlessly and fit into the cellphone casing, makes this virtually impossible to be done for each and every phone being sold, considering the lead-time for the engineering and the lightning rate at which newer models are being introduced to the public for sale.
Targetted phones - yes, this will be possible. If the buyer is known to be buying a certain phone from a certain telco, then it will be possible for a government to intervene the purchase and fake delay to the delivery date of the phone, to re-engineer the phone with the eavesdropper, before the telco hands the phone over to the buyer.
Generic eavesdropper implants?
If the phone manufacturer (Brand X) is from the same country as a government, then it is possible that a government will want to plant an eavesdropper in every phone being manufactured and to be sold in another targetted country, e.g., Country A. This can be easily done by having a motherboard version A for Brand X phones to be exported to country A. So all phones of Brand X being sold in Country A will have the eavesdropper.
chan.sk said:
Interesting topic. Time for some imagination to run wild.
Yes, technically, it is possible for a government to listen in to any cellphone they wish to, even when it is turned off.
How? To implant a self-contained, self-powered, eavesdropping chip to each and every phone being sold in the country. The configuration of this eavesdropper is left to anyone's imagination of science & espionage fiction, e.g., remote power on/off, induction charging (aka "wireless" charging) of built-in battery, gps tracking, etc.
Do-able? Highly unlikely, imho. Not for every phone that will be sold to the general public, at least.
The logistics will be too massive a challenge because this eavesdropping chip has to be implanted into every phone, and cellphone models change so frequently. The engineering time and effort, involved to implant this chip to each cellphone's mainboard seamlessly and fit into the cellphone casing, makes this virtually impossible to be done for each and every phone being sold, considering the lead-time for the engineering and the lightning rate at which newer models are being introduced to the public for sale.
Targetted phones - yes, this will be possible. If the buyer is known to be buying a certain phone from a certain telco, then it will be possible for a government to intervene the purchase and fake delay to the delivery date of the phone, to re-engineer the phone with the eavesdropper, before the telco hands the phone over to the buyer.
Generic eavesdropper implants?
If the phone manufacturer (Brand X) is from the same country as a government, then it is possible that a government will want to plant an eavesdropper in every phone being manufactured and to be sold in another targetted country, e.g., Country A. This can be easily done by having a motherboard version A for Brand X phones to be exported to country A. So all phones of Brand X being sold in Country A will have the eavesdropper.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good points mate, that's why this was mentioned earlier but end of the day such things can already be inserted into the CPU only awaiting switch ON/OFF by those whom it had been designed for is another point to add to yours. ( if not now, in time to come)
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.
i think they can listen our voices.as you know when the phone is off but your phone clock still working fine.
i believe the ideal way to test this, would be to actively monitor the voltage of the phone. on the software side of things its much easier to be cleverly hidden, but on the hardware side nothing can happen without a draw in current. if someone really cared, they could monitor each part in the phone individually, to see when each and every part was doing something. tho i doubt anyone who has the know-how cares to, and anyone who cares has the know-how, lol.
soraxd said:
. tho i doubt anyone who has the know-how cares to, and anyone who cares has the know-how, lol.
Click to expand...
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For obvious reasons, it would be unwise to even think about it, as those who ventured too far in exposing such details ended up in serious problems, similar to this article
Mayer said Yahoo scrutinizes and fights US government data requests stamped with the authority of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, but when the company losses battles it must do as directed or risk being branded a traitor.
Data requests authorized by the court come with an order barring anyone at the company receiving the request from disclosing anything about them, even their existence.
"If you don't comply, it is treason," Mayer said when asked why she couldn't just spill details of requests by US spy agencies for information about Yahoo users.
"We can't talk about it because it is classified," she continued. "Releasing classified information is treason, and you are incarcerated. In terms of protecting our users, it makes more sense to work within the system."
Click to expand...
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Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.
To bring closure to exactly how the smartphone is triggered , this article about The second operating system hiding in every mobile phone gives us the clue
While we can sort-of assume that the base stations in cell towers operated by large carriers are "safe", the fact of the matter is that base stations are becoming a lot cheaper, and are being sold on eBay - and there are even open source base station software packages. Such base stations can be used to target phones. Put a compromised base station in a crowded area - or even a financial district or some other sensitive area - and you can remotely turn on microphones, cameras, place rootkits, place calls/send SMS messages to expensive numbers, and so on. Yes, you can even brick phones permanently.
This is a pretty serious issue, but one that you rarely hear about. This is such low-level, complex software that I would guess very few people in the world actually understand everything that's going on here.
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Click to collapse
also look at this post
Check this out! Links to useful Guides and " Banned " Documentaries
I am trying to identify my phone's real manufacturer.
I am almost completely deaf in my right ear, partially deaf in my left ear and (since 2016), suffer severe Tinnitus.
In 2017 I replaced a "Doro PhoneEasy 740" phone with an "Amplicomms PowerTel M9500". This is sold in the UK by Action on Hearing Loss (the trading name of the Royal National Institute for the Deaf) as a Hearing Aid Compatible (HAC) Android phone achieving M4/T4 capability.
Support for this phone is difficult, the Amplicomms email system replies in German that there is a server problem, and the telephone support was an ordinary landline, and very difficult for me to hear. Their only solution to my problems was a factory reset.
In July 2017, a wireless update failed, but the phone still worked until April this year (2018), when I was forced to do a factory reset as I would not connect to the phone network.
I could not find any mention of a model M9500 anywhere on this, or other forums, and the boot menu is in Chinese.
Both "Settings>About phone" and Bluetooth devices recognise the phone model as an "M9500_type_F100"
Since the factory reset, Google Play now recognises the phone as a Hipstreet M9500 Type 100, but I cannot find such a device anywhere on the web, certainly not on Hisptreet's own website.
The phone has the following features :- Dual SIM, 4G LTE, 2.4 & 5GHz wifi, 5" screen, SOS button on the rear, 2 and 8 Mpixel cameras, Android 5.1, 1GB RAM, 8GB internal SD (I think), sound levels up to 40dB phone and 90dB loudspeaker, and claims HAC of M4/T4.
I am in severe doubt about the latter feature as it is not really anything like as good as my Doro 740, that was only M3/T4 HAC rating. There is considerable interference when trying to use it with my hearing aids on loop.
The phone as supplied has a "seniors" interface that can be disabled so full Android OS is available, unlike my Doro.
The reason I have had to retire the Doro is that that it also has "simplified" interface that is locked down that cannot be bypassed, the Developer Options cannot be enabled, believe me, I have tried. All Doro Support suggest is to buy their later version.
Does anyone have any idea where I can get detailed technical documentation/certification ?
I am fairly ofay with the basics of Linux and learning the variety of implementations of android, so not a complete newbie.
Uncledulgaria
Uncledulgaria said:
I am trying to identify my phone's real manufacturer.
I am almost completely deaf in my right ear, partially deaf in my left ear and (since 2016), suffer severe Tinnitus.
In 2017 I replaced a "Doro PhoneEasy 740" phone with an "Amplicomms PowerTel M9500". This is sold in the UK by Action on Hearing Loss (the trading name of the Royal National Institute for the Deaf) as a Hearing Aid Compatible (HAC) Android phone achieving M4/T4 capability.
Support for this phone is difficult, the Amplicomms email system replies in German that there is a server problem, and the telephone support was an ordinary landline, and very difficult for me to hear. Their only solution to my problems was a factory reset.
In July 2017, a wireless update failed, but the phone still worked until April this year (2018), when I was forced to do a factory reset as I would not connect to the phone network.
I could not find any mention of a model M9500 anywhere on this, or other forums, and the boot menu is in Chinese.
Both "Settings>About phone" and Bluetooth devices recognise the phone model as an "M9500_type_F100"
Since the factory reset, Google Play now recognises the phone as a Hipstreet M9500 Type 100, but I cannot find such a device anywhere on the web, certainly not on Hisptreet's own website.
The phone has the following features :- Dual SIM, 4G LTE, 2.4 & 5GHz wifi, 5" screen, SOS button on the rear, 2 and 8 Mpixel cameras, Android 5.1, 1GB RAM, 8GB internal SD (I think), sound levels up to 40dB phone and 90dB loudspeaker, and claims HAC of M4/T4.
I am in severe doubt about the latter feature as it is not really anything like as good as my Doro 740, that was only M3/T4 HAC rating. There is considerable interference when trying to use it with my hearing aids on loop.
The phone as supplied has a "seniors" interface that can be disabled so full Android OS is available, unlike my Doro.
The reason I have had to retire the Doro is that that it also has "simplified" interface that is locked down that cannot be bypassed, the Developer Options cannot be enabled, believe me, I have tried. All Doro Support suggest is to buy their later version.
Does anyone have any idea where I can get detailed technical documentation/certification ?
I am fairly ofay with the basics of Linux and learning the variety of implementations of android, so not a complete newbie.
Uncledulgaria
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this your device?
http://amplicomms.com/index.php?en_powertel-m9500
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
Droidriven said:
Is this your device?
URL removed
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Yes, that is my phone, but as you will see, the real technical details are rather sparse.
Similarly, the online shop gives no more information. (As I haven't yet done 10 posts I can't post any links.)
Search:- action on hearing loss shop phones t548-amplicomms-9500
They all claim that it is M4/T4 compliant but it does not perform as well as my Doro did with my hearing aids.
When the phone is put near my hearing aid when the aid is on loop there is interference that makes it of no use.
I have checked out the M4/T4 (HAC) compliance, it is an FCC requirement if the phone is for sale to deaf people in the USA.
Search:- fcc consumers guides hearing-aid-compatibility
It seems to me quite possible that, going by the statement on that page, the HAC requirement is all about loudness and magnetic (loop) signal strength, not about interference via the magnetic loop sensor. I am hoping that, by tracking down the original equipment manufacturer, I could find out on what basis they have claimed M4/T4 compliance and whether other purchasers of the phone should be warned, or establish if mine might have a problem. As I said in my first post, my past experience of Ampliconns support has not been good.
Knowing the manufacturer and chipset would also give me more confidence of success should I want to root the phone at some time, or perhaps upgrading the Android version to a Go edition, as I am constantly tweaking the install to keep the apps I want.
The simplified interface shown in all the blurb can be turned on and off via the settings menu. It really is set up for people with poor motor skills and low levels of computer literacy. I run mine with the full Android 5.1 GUI.