watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?
soraxd said:
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this would be possible by turning them on remotely over a network. similar to waking a PC on LAN.
similar to
Wake on LAN is technology that allows someone to turn on a network computer remotely by sending a special data packet (called a Magic Packet). Even if the computer is turned off, the network adapter is still "listening" on the network, so when the special packet arrives, the network adapter can turn on the computer.
Wake on LAN is mainly used by system administrators to perform computer maintenance tasks remotely. The computer receiving the Magic Packet must have a motherboard, network adapter, adapter driver, and computer basic input/output system (BIOS) that work with Wake on LAN.
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When the computer is 'off' it is not really 'off' there is still power on the computer. I doubt whether a phone is still 'listening' to a GSM or 3G/4G network while OFF. Wouldn't you notice a huge drain the next time you start your phone? I think it is not as simple as with a regular desktop pc.
Edit: A simple google search gives me nothing on waking up my phone by GSM/3G/4G/WLAN.
Anyone else ?
Robin>Hood said:
When the computer is 'off' it is not really 'off' there is still power on the computer. I doubt whether a phone is still 'listening' to a GSM or 3G/4G network while OFF. Wouldn't you notice a huge drain the next time you start your phone? I think it is not as simple as with a regular desktop pc.
Edit: A simple google search gives me nothing on waking up my phone by GSM/3G/4G/WLAN.
Anyone else ?
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Indeed, its not the same as a PC, but it does have a power source to maintain its date and time and what not's may or may not be embedded in its chips, just to get an idea about chips, read this
Hence it can be not only a software issue but can also be a hardware issue.
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That is interesting, I knew some of that but never really digged into it. Do you know anybody has tried to locate the chip, I mean on the software side, so a it could be like, disabled software side, so it wouldnbt be of any use?
Also I'm downloading the documentary is just finished downloading :good: Thank you for sharing that with the world Sir.
Robin>Hood said:
That is interesting, I knew some of that but never really digged into it. Do you know anybody has tried to locate the chip, I mean on the software side, so a it could be like, disabled software side, so it wouldnbt be of any use?
Also I'm downloading the documentary is just finished downloading :good: Thank you for sharing that with the world Sir.
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Off hand such info would be difficult to obtain, and most likely not available to most. In addition Chip manufacturers can be compelled to "implant" certain things into their chips that even phone manufacturers will not be aware of by relevant concerns, so its pretty much a dark area for end users. Than comes software , which also can be incorporated with the requirements of agencies that have interest for such requirements,
end of the day, just to give you an idea on software just saw a post made today let me quote http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=46060254&postcount=78
silentvisitor said:
Profiling or citizen database in any way is/can be dangerous. Nobody can guarantee future.
Lets have a look at what all information does Google have about YOU through your Android phone :
YOUR NAME
01. Your picture
02. Your complete Contact list with pictures, e-mail ids, phone numbers, birthdays, etc.
03. Whom you met or gonna meet (Calendar) (Btw, there were digital and much powerful calendars way before Google Calendar e.g BlackBerry)
04. With whom you talked, when and how long (Call log) (Read Privacy Policy \ Log information )
05. Your family and other images (Picasa web albums) (Google+ auto-upload)
06. Your WiFi passwords (device backup)
07. Where you are located or went (location)
08. Which sites you visited (Android browser google login)
09. Which device/s you own.
10. Your files (Google drive) (no encryption) (Also Gmail attachments)
11. What you searched (Google search and Now)
12. Your pic (Chrome has Camera permissions) (everything can be used in two ways)
13. Your daily route (Google Now)
14. What you talked with someone through chat (GTalk) (its their servers, right)
15. Finally, your emails and its contents. Read this (I believe we will see many such things in near future as awareness increases)
Ever heard about NSA or PRISM
There is much more to it than meets the eye or this list.
Today, Google and Facebook (primarily Google) knows more about you than your own parents or spouse and that's frightening. If not today then tomorrow.
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Yes I know, but at least I made a choice in this, giving them my information, if I wanted to I could use a nokia 3310 or something similar. But I'm a online junkie I guess.
Maybe it doesn't matter that much in a year or 1, 2 maybe 3 lol:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/us-japan-fukushima-insight-idUSBRE97D00M20130814
I can see a GPS transceiver in the phone potentially working while the phone is off to give information on where the phone is (like a tracking bug or whatever), but I don't think they'd be able to listen in while the phone is off. Similar to what others have said, regarding WOL packets etc... phone would have to be on and connected to a cell tower to transmit the audio data....
If you're really worried, take out the battery Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!
Even if the government could listen to your calls why should it matter? Unless you are doing something wrong it should matter right? Maybe it's just me that would rather them listen in and potentially prevent an attack by doing so. Just me I guess. So how about that Galaxy Note 3... Nice piece of work there.
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drumst1x said:
I can see a GPS transceiver in the phone potentially working while the phone is off to give information on where the phone is (like a tracking bug or whatever), but I don't think they'd be able to listen in while the phone is off. Similar to what others have said, regarding WOL packets etc... phone would have to be on and connected to a cell tower to transmit the audio data....
If you're really worried, take out the battery Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!
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LOL, :laugh: All phones have an internal lithium-ion battery to maintain the date and time so to speak, maybe its time to look inside your phone or just download a technical manual to know better . There is nothing magical or conspiratorial about it actually, since you a transferring music, video, images & power (heard of wireless charging?), over the Air. Activating a phone or just its modem must be impossible?
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xsenman said:
LOL, :laugh: All phones have an internal lithium-ion battery to maintain the date and time so to speak, maybe its time to look inside your phone or just download a technical manual to know better . There is nothing magical or conspiratorial about it actually, since you a transferring music, video, images & power (heard of wireless charging?), over the Air. Activating a phone or just its modem must be impossible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dang, quoting you was difficult, having to strip out all that signature stuff!
I know that there's a Li-Ion in there, but those batteries are used to keep a timeclock alive. I don't know THAT much about batteries, but we have these massive batteries in our phones that tremendously increase our phones' weight just so we can have 4-6 hrs of "moderate use".... I would tend to think (again, i'm not an expert on the subject, just giving my 2 cents) that the tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right? Sure, you could say it can grab the charge from the main battery etc, but couldn't we easily enough find out if there is any kind of electromagnetic signature or radio wave coming out of the devices when off? I'm sure someone out there in the interwebs has a device that can tell us this (a la Ghost Hunters or something?).
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.
drumst1x said:
Dang, quoting you was difficult, having to strip out all that signature stuff!
I know that there's a Li-Ion in there, but those batteries are used to keep a timeclock alive. I don't know THAT much about batteries, but we have these massive batteries in our phones that tremendously increase our phones' weight just so we can have 4-6 hrs of "moderate use".... I would tend to think (again, i'm not an expert on the subject, just giving my 2 cents) that the tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right? Sure, you could say it can grab the charge from the main battery etc, but couldn't we easily enough find out if there is any kind of electromagnetic signature or radio wave coming out of the devices when off? I'm sure someone out there in the interwebs has a device that can tell us this (a la Ghost Hunters or something?).
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.
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Click to collapse
Well said, couldn't put it in better way.
There are actually many more tracking devices available and more effective than our phone, such as your brain waves.
drumst1x said:
tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right?
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently, you seem to miss the point mate, the OP has seen
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this on CBS and wondering how this can be done on an android without being noticed.
Whereas you try to brush it aside by saying
Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what I am saying is , it only needs a small amount of internal power source to trigger the main functions of the phone as and when needed by those who have needs for such capabilities. Now to wonder how it is or was done is all well and good but to try an suggest its just another conspiracy theory would be like sticking your head in the ground like an ostrich.
Let me take you back to the OP's question how is it possible without being noticed by the user, that is where, if the only the modem or only the MIC is activated / triggered, than there will be nothing to hear or see on the phone.(meaning phone will look inactive but is actively transmitting everything )
This thread is not about what can be done or cannot be done, its about not sticking over heads in the grounds and being aware of our situation
how text messages & WIFI can trigger
Now for the facts
The FBI develops some hacking tools internally and purchases others from the private sector. With such technology, the bureau can remotely activate the microphones in phones running Google Inc.'s GOOG +0.11% Android software to record conversations, one former U.S. official said. It can do the same to microphones in laptops without the user knowing, the person said. Google declined to comment.
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Source
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
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I'm certainly not trying to say it's impossible. Just saying that there are MANY ways we are tracked, and it wouldn't be the most efficient to track (when phone is off) using Li-ion battery. Not saying it's not happening.
All this talk has made me want to purchase a device that can detect bugs / activity. Not only around the phone, but around the house, the car, etc... i'm getting more and more paranoid!
soraxd said:
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting topic. Time for some imagination to run wild.
Yes, technically, it is possible for a government to listen in to any cellphone they wish to, even when it is turned off.
How? To implant a self-contained, self-powered, eavesdropping chip to each and every phone being sold in the country. The configuration of this eavesdropper is left to anyone's imagination of science & espionage fiction, e.g., remote power on/off, induction charging (aka "wireless" charging) of built-in battery, gps tracking, etc.
Do-able? Highly unlikely, imho. Not for every phone that will be sold to the general public, at least.
The logistics will be too massive a challenge because this eavesdropping chip has to be implanted into every phone, and cellphone models change so frequently. The engineering time and effort, involved to implant this chip to each cellphone's mainboard seamlessly and fit into the cellphone casing, makes this virtually impossible to be done for each and every phone being sold, considering the lead-time for the engineering and the lightning rate at which newer models are being introduced to the public for sale.
Targetted phones - yes, this will be possible. If the buyer is known to be buying a certain phone from a certain telco, then it will be possible for a government to intervene the purchase and fake delay to the delivery date of the phone, to re-engineer the phone with the eavesdropper, before the telco hands the phone over to the buyer.
Generic eavesdropper implants?
If the phone manufacturer (Brand X) is from the same country as a government, then it is possible that a government will want to plant an eavesdropper in every phone being manufactured and to be sold in another targetted country, e.g., Country A. This can be easily done by having a motherboard version A for Brand X phones to be exported to country A. So all phones of Brand X being sold in Country A will have the eavesdropper.
chan.sk said:
Interesting topic. Time for some imagination to run wild.
Yes, technically, it is possible for a government to listen in to any cellphone they wish to, even when it is turned off.
How? To implant a self-contained, self-powered, eavesdropping chip to each and every phone being sold in the country. The configuration of this eavesdropper is left to anyone's imagination of science & espionage fiction, e.g., remote power on/off, induction charging (aka "wireless" charging) of built-in battery, gps tracking, etc.
Do-able? Highly unlikely, imho. Not for every phone that will be sold to the general public, at least.
The logistics will be too massive a challenge because this eavesdropping chip has to be implanted into every phone, and cellphone models change so frequently. The engineering time and effort, involved to implant this chip to each cellphone's mainboard seamlessly and fit into the cellphone casing, makes this virtually impossible to be done for each and every phone being sold, considering the lead-time for the engineering and the lightning rate at which newer models are being introduced to the public for sale.
Targetted phones - yes, this will be possible. If the buyer is known to be buying a certain phone from a certain telco, then it will be possible for a government to intervene the purchase and fake delay to the delivery date of the phone, to re-engineer the phone with the eavesdropper, before the telco hands the phone over to the buyer.
Generic eavesdropper implants?
If the phone manufacturer (Brand X) is from the same country as a government, then it is possible that a government will want to plant an eavesdropper in every phone being manufactured and to be sold in another targetted country, e.g., Country A. This can be easily done by having a motherboard version A for Brand X phones to be exported to country A. So all phones of Brand X being sold in Country A will have the eavesdropper.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good points mate, that's why this was mentioned earlier but end of the day such things can already be inserted into the CPU only awaiting switch ON/OFF by those whom it had been designed for is another point to add to yours. ( if not now, in time to come)
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i think they can listen our voices.as you know when the phone is off but your phone clock still working fine.
i believe the ideal way to test this, would be to actively monitor the voltage of the phone. on the software side of things its much easier to be cleverly hidden, but on the hardware side nothing can happen without a draw in current. if someone really cared, they could monitor each part in the phone individually, to see when each and every part was doing something. tho i doubt anyone who has the know-how cares to, and anyone who cares has the know-how, lol.
soraxd said:
. tho i doubt anyone who has the know-how cares to, and anyone who cares has the know-how, lol.
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For obvious reasons, it would be unwise to even think about it, as those who ventured too far in exposing such details ended up in serious problems, similar to this article
Mayer said Yahoo scrutinizes and fights US government data requests stamped with the authority of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, but when the company losses battles it must do as directed or risk being branded a traitor.
Data requests authorized by the court come with an order barring anyone at the company receiving the request from disclosing anything about them, even their existence.
"If you don't comply, it is treason," Mayer said when asked why she couldn't just spill details of requests by US spy agencies for information about Yahoo users.
"We can't talk about it because it is classified," she continued. "Releasing classified information is treason, and you are incarcerated. In terms of protecting our users, it makes more sense to work within the system."
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Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
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To bring closure to exactly how the smartphone is triggered , this article about The second operating system hiding in every mobile phone gives us the clue
While we can sort-of assume that the base stations in cell towers operated by large carriers are "safe", the fact of the matter is that base stations are becoming a lot cheaper, and are being sold on eBay - and there are even open source base station software packages. Such base stations can be used to target phones. Put a compromised base station in a crowded area - or even a financial district or some other sensitive area - and you can remotely turn on microphones, cameras, place rootkits, place calls/send SMS messages to expensive numbers, and so on. Yes, you can even brick phones permanently.
This is a pretty serious issue, but one that you rarely hear about. This is such low-level, complex software that I would guess very few people in the world actually understand everything that's going on here.
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also look at this post
Check this out! Links to useful Guides and " Banned " Documentaries
Related
Does anyone know if this phone has the ability for someone else to turn on the internal gps and track my phone. If so how do I disable that disability?
The phone itself doesn't. Some carriers do allow for extra services that do location tracking but all of them that I'm aware of notify the user that they were just tracked (for example if a mom were to track her daughter she'd get an sms saying so)
There are a few third party applications such as http://www.air-watch.com/ which after a device agent is installed on the device it can be tracked without the user knowing.
I guess what I should be asking. Is there a reliable mobile firewall that will stop stuff from coming in that you don't want when you don't want it?
If you have any cell phone, 'they' can find you if you are paranoid.
As for the TP2 GPS, you can turn it off for non-911 use and simply not install any tracking software.
Indeed ... "They" can track you reguardless of what you do short of turning the phone off. So I wouldn't worry about them 'cause theres nothing you can do.
Husband/Wife/Mother/Father/Mistress can only track you if you enable it for more than 911 or install an app as mentioned above.
And as for a firewall of sorts, even if you used one it would probably only work on the data side of things, I suspect they can receive your gps coordinates over the radio band so any way you could firewall that would also disable the phone, in which case you can just turn it off instead.
... and as a wise bumper sticker once told me ... its not paranoid, if they are really after you.
trackme
I ran a program called 'trackme' on my TyTTN. It will ping the GPS occasionally and send the data to a website. It's cool because you can use their site or have it do a local web server. The site will keep a file you can drop into google maps and it will show you a path. If you can lower the update to once every half hour or so maybe it won't eat the battery so much. I'm sure there is better by now, but this worked.
"trackme"
I found the link in here somewhere.
Sprite Terminator - http://www.spritesoftware.com/products/sprite-terminator
slight22 said:
Does anyone know if this phone has the ability for someone else to turn on the internal gps and track my phone. If so how do I disable that disability?[/QUOTE
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slight22 said:
Does anyone know if this phone has the ability for someone else to turn on the internal gps and track my phone. If so how do I disable that disability?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YES, YES YES, YES.
There's nothing u can do about being tracked through GPS!
US Federal law mandates that all US cellphone have GPS (enabled).
Some kids died (playing around on a boat) a few years back and since then EVERY time you place a call your location gets recorded
The only way is to take the battery out of the phone.
Good Luck.
Or you could build yourself your own faraday cage, Then put on a tin foil helmet...
papeluv said:
Or you could build yourself your own faraday cage, Then put on a tin foil helmet...
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Click to collapse
This is Hands Down the best idea I have read thus far... I second the notion of a faraday cage and tin foil helmet...
1) i'm not an american so american laws have no basis on me.
2) It's not that i've done anything illegal or am worried about being tracked but i believe it was best said by Benjamin Franklin
"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security"
my personal privacy above all else.
enahsak said:
YES, YES YES, YES.
There's nothing u can do about being tracked through GPS!
US Federal law mandates that all US cellphone have GPS (enabled).
Some kids died (playing around on a boat) a few years back and since then EVERY time you place a call your location gets recorded
The only way is to take the battery out of the phone.
Good Luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the law only pertains to 911 calls, you can disable it for all other calls if you want
Do what you want. They know what cell tower you are on, and they know the relative distance that you are from the tower. That gets them close. And if you are seen by a second tower, they know pretty accurately.
I do sell tin foil hats if you need one.
worwig said:
Do what you want. They know what cell tower you are on, and they know the relative distance that you are from the tower. That gets them close. And if you are seen by a second tower, they know pretty accurately.
I do sell tin foil hats if you need one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What amazes me is you all think this is a joke, but really do you really want anyone to trace you just cause they can??
It was Benjamin Franklin that said "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security"
Really he may have not known about cellphones and cellular triangulation, but his statement is no less relevant today as it was back then.
slight22 said:
What amazes me is you all think this is a joke, but really do you really want anyone to trace you just cause they can??
It was Benjamin Franklin that said "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security"
Really he may have not known about cellphones and cellular triangulation, but his statement is no less relevant today as it was back then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That statement does not apply when you chose to reveal yourself by turning on a transmitter. If you want that liberty, turn off the phone, and don't use the internet with a traceable IP, etc.
There was something on the local news a few weeks ago about some web based tracking/spy services that are becoming popular.
You sign up for the service and you can either a) download an installer file which you can install on an unsuspecting phone or b) in some cases, send a MMS or Email continaing a disguised installer. After the installer is running, you can remotely activate the GPS, activate the camera and get a live video stream, activate the microphone to turn the phone into a listening device, monitor all outgoing txt messages, web history, etc, etc.
They even showed one of the websites where you can buy the software from, but I think they blurred out the domain name.
So, you could have alot more to worry about then just GPS tracking
Oh, and I am really waiting to see if the OP can quote Ben Franklin a third time. Twice in a 5 post span wasn't enough .
Goanna said:
Oh, and I am really waiting to see if the OP can quote Ben Franklin a third time. Twice in a 5 post span wasn't enough .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im waiting to see if he can get the quote right
Over the past 2 years I have had 3 separate and different mobile phones. Each with their own problems.
1st a htc hero which had many problems , not anything which needed it sending back but things such as push call and it wouldn't call anyone for 5 mins then place 15 calls to that person. Not sending texts and dropping calls.
2nd a htc desire hd , got the day of release , sent back 4 separate times. Faulty phone which drained the battery dry in 3 hours even when not using it . Another twice for the phone dying and not switching on. And then a problem with the screen not displaying anything aswell as each time taking a photo it would switch the phone off.
3rd and finally the iPhone 4 which I have had for 2 months , and granted to software is a lot more stable than android (and more boring even when jailbroken) but even this phone has a fault with the light sensor so the screen dosnt re illuminate when making a call.
Is it just my bad luck or as phones are packed with more gizmos and gadgets are they becoming less reliable? Because as you can see here the more advanced the phone gets the more issues arise. Now I'm not complaining i think even with the faults there is no way I could live without a smartphone.
Any comments or are other people feeling this way ?
no, in our environment where broadband and instant gratification has become so pervasive our expectations have risen ... sometimes to unrealistic levels
Bummer...fortunately I've had no big issues with my last 3 HTC devices!
I think they're generally just as reliable as before, which is to say not very reliable at all. There's not enough testing and quality control and, as ever, new technology is constantly replacing the old before the old is ever perfected. That applies to both hardware and software where it seems every iteration brings a new set of problems.
Also consider how much more frequently they are used as opposed to the days of the Nokia 33** phones, voice only, no such thing as texting or data.
The more features you have the more these is to go wrong...
omgjosho said:
Also consider how much more frequently they are used as opposed to the days of the Nokia 33** phones, voice only, no such thing as texting or data.
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This.
Or it is probably your luck
From reading your post, I'd say the majority of the problems lies within the user. It's like giving an inexperienced 18yo a classic Ferrari and expect the kid to know on how to properly take care of it. Maybe it's the case of TOO much technology for one to handle rather than phones becoming more unreliable. Funny how I've had about 4-5 phones in the last 2yrs and none have gone in for repair.
All phones now are unreliable crap. . . . All the way from beyond garbage software that needs to be changed to for even daily use(that is why this community exists), to junk hardware.
Windows 7 < enough said
As an ex-Android and WinMob user I can only agree, phones are unreliable ... and lets be honest, they have been for more than a couple of years!
The problem as I see it with OS's like WinMob and Android - they are written to be "everything to everyone". They are then customised either with drivers or a front end or both by a manufacturer and this is where the weak points come in.
Why do you think IOS and WinPho7 are far more stable? Because they are closed environments with restrictions to hardware access/low level coding. Because of this its much harder to introduce unstable code.
I am now a Winpho 7 owner and I cannot express here just how happy I am with its stability. OK, it *currently* doesn't do everything Android and WinMob do but what it does do, it does reliably
How embarrasing was it when you went to give a friend a phone number and your "contacts" would lock up or, you try to make a phone call and nothing happens or, you don't get phone calls ... only to find out your phone had locked up!
Reliability is now 100% key for me.
omgjosho said:
Also consider how much more frequently they are used as opposed to the days of the Nokia 33** phones, voice only, no such thing as texting or data.
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dont be rediculous.
I've been using phones as "modems" for years, probably actually thinking about, over a decade! As as for "no such thing as texting"......
jordanprudent said:
Over the past 2 years I have had 3 separate and different mobile phones. Each with their own problems.
1st a htc hero which had many problems , not anything which needed it sending back but things such as push call and it wouldn't call anyone for 5 mins then place 15 calls to that person. Not sending texts and dropping calls.
2nd a htc desire hd , got the day of release , sent back 4 separate times. Faulty phone which drained the battery dry in 3 hours even when not using it . Another twice for the phone dying and not switching on. And then a problem with the screen not displaying anything aswell as each time taking a photo it would switch the phone off.
3rd and finally the iPhone 4 which I have had for 2 months , and granted to software is a lot more stable than android (and more boring even when jailbroken) but even this phone has a fault with the light sensor so the screen dosnt re illuminate when making a call.
Any comments or are other people feeling this way ?
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Click to collapse
It beggars belief that people are saying that these are YOUR fault and the way you use it.... unless of course you decided to throw it on the floor (which i doubt!)
So all those "its your fault" people, how would he/we break a light sensor or stop the screen switching on? Seriously .. would love to hear this!
DirkGently1 said:
I think they're generally just as reliable as before, which is to say not very reliable at all. There's not enough testing and quality control and, as ever, new technology is constantly replacing the old before the old is ever perfected. That applies to both hardware and software where it seems every iteration brings a new set of problems.
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Would have to 100% agree with this! Too much rush, not enough QA.
no, in our environment where broadband and instant gratification has become so pervasive our expectations have risen ...
Monty Burns said:
dont be rediculous.
I've been using phones as "modems" for years, probably actually thinking about, over a decade! As as for "no such thing as texting"......
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I'm hardly being ridiculous. It's common sense. If you leave your car in the garage 6 days out of the week and only drive it on Saturday, the probability of failure is significantly lower than if you were to commute daily. There are a number of factors involved: mechanical failure and accidental damage being two examples.
The same could be said of cell phones - when they had less function than the phones of today, there were fewer points of failure and a lower probability that it would occur.
Just because you may be the exception to the rule does not change the rule. Assuming that is ridiculous.
omgjosho said:
I'm hardly being ridiculous. It's common sense. If you leave your car in the garage 6 days out of the week and only drive it on Saturday, the probability of failure is significantly lower than if you were to commute daily. There are a number of factors involved: mechanical failure and accidental damage being two examples.
The same could be said of cell phones - when they had less function than the phones of today, there were fewer points of failure and a lower probability that it would occur.
Just because you may be the exception to the rule does not change the rule. Assuming that is ridiculous.
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I wasn't refering to the complexity=failability, couldn't agree more!
I was refering to the fact that you suggest that people didn't text or use mobiles as modems, of course we did.. The only diference was that we had a modem cable and proprietry dialer! I even setup an NT4 RAS server for our company...
and texting? Your seriously suggesting texting is a "new" craze....? I might suggest the exception to the rule might be you.
I was referencing the period before SMS was an available service, actually. So you're missing the point.
And the majority of people were not setting up their cell phones as modems on NT4, so you are still missing the point and bordering irrelevancy.
Regarding SMS... I sent my first text message before making my first mobile call...
Regarding reliability, my previous phones (roughly £100 dumb phones) were all useless.
Friend has LG cookie. Worst, least reliable phone known to man.
Hero? Used it heavily for 16 months out of my 18 month contract, and still not seen anything that takes my fancy to replace it comes May...
Best, most reliable phone has been the most recent one.
For those who complain of a device's speed, just whip up a custom rom and optimise it.
Never had any speed issues on my own ROMS... had plenty in others
omgjosho said:
I was referencing the period before SMS was an available service, actually. So you're missing the point.
And the majority of people were not setting up their cell phones as modems on NT4, so you are still missing the point and bordering irrelevancy.
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I'm guessing your in the USA where adoption of digital networks was far slower (and later) than in the UK (and probably Europe?).
Texts have been an integral part of mobiles since well before your Nokia 33xx models i.e. before 2000.
For example, my first mobile was on Hutchinson Telecom (now Orange) back in 1995 Linky
And do you even know what NT4 RAS was? You wouldn't put a mobile on it! You would use a Win95/98 client to dial into it ... usualy from the laptop with its modem i.e. cellphone! Here in London it was common place for IT support to carry this kind of setup around. IT people were some of the first to take advantage of digital networks.... for this very reason. (Yes you could do it over analogue but it was easily monitored)
So, as we are going to labour a pointless point, why on earth do you think texts are a relatively new thing!? Maybe in the states it is but not here in Europe and certainly not in the UK!
edit:
ahh yeah there we go "Location: Livermore, CA" of course, the rest of the world doesn't exist does it...
There's no point debating with someone who's failing to read.
I never once said that texting was a new thing. You put those words into my mouth, and I'm yet to agree with you about that.
Regardless, let me know when you're ready to actually discuss the topic, sans tossing out insults and making assumptions about what I do and do not know
First off, I want to thank everyone who has posted about rooting, removing bloat and overclocking, my poor old OG droid is now twice as fast as stock and the tweaks were as easy as eating Skittles on the couch. Oh, and I loved the newb video, and after reading this site for a while I think it may not be harsh enough.
Anyway, I have had an idea for an app that I have searched extensively for, and have not come up with anything even close. I'm no coder, barely understand the concept, so I submit this idea to the community in hopes that if you like it, someone will write it, and it will be good. All I ask in return is that I don't have to pay for it later, if it goes viral.
Recently the driving laws of my home state and many others have changed, and the exact wordings differ greatly. In Nevada, the wording is such that I can answer my phone and talk on speakerphone, as long as I can do so in one button push. And before you say the word "blue-tooth" leme remind you how much battery power that takes, realize I use this thing constantly for business and can't afford a new device or devices. Plus, I only have one power outlet, and would have to charge my mp3 player (much more song storage than my phone, and no interruption from calls or lack of service out in the boonies) my phone and then a blue tooth headset. Talk about a distraction while driving!
Now, on to the idea in question. When the phone is in sleep mode and the phone rings, I would have to unlock the screen, answer the call, and push 'speakerphone', and this(according to the letter of the law) is illegal while driving in the great state of Nevada. After reading this I got to thinking (and that can sometimes lead to dangerous actions, so after putting my special thinking helmet on...) this is what I came up with.
The camera button doesn't have a function while the screen is off, at least not that I have found on my phone. Also, when receiving a call, the camera button does nothing. In fact it doesn't do anything on my phone unless I'm on the home screen.(and I changed that auto-run feature of the camera so I wasn't taking 15 pics a day by accident, now it only works when I'm IN camera) So, my thought is to tie the camera button in with answering a call directly into speakerphone, without unlocking the screen and pressing 2 buttons. This makes answering my phone while driving legal, and much, much safer. Instead of 3 actions, now I have only one, taking a third less of my focus off the road. Plus, I don't have to look around for a cop before answering an important call, or pull over to the side of a busy highway to avoid a ticket.
This seems like a no-brainer to me, I just don't know the first thing about coding or writing apps, other than I don't know jack about coding or writing apps! Wish I did, as I think this could be a very helpful app if done correctly. I'm a gear-head, so If you wana talk cars we could talk all day, but I only know smartphones by what I have read in the last few months. Granted, I am VERY interested... (See: Staying up all hours of the night reading about the subject and writing posts! LOL)
Leme know what ya'll think. I can take criticism, even insults, just don't call me stupid. I'm always coming up with hair-brained schemes, and every once in a while, this blind squirrel does find a good nut or two.
V.
"Know your enemy as you know yourself, and in 100 battles you will never know defeat." Sun Tzu - The Art of War
"Freakin' sweet! This place's got EVERYTHING!" Peter Griffin
[email protected]
(this is my junk-mail account, so if I don't get back to you fast, realize I WILL get back to you!)
Not even one opinion...
Over 100 views, not one opinion huh? maybe I'm in the wrong area, if so will someone please put this in the right area so I could get some feedback please? Thanks.
V.
ValyRebelz said:
Over 100 views, not one opinion huh? maybe I'm in the wrong area, if so will someone please put this in the right area so I could get some feedback please? Thanks.
V.
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send pm to mod for moving thread to right froum.
Anyone think that they could replace a obd2 ecm/ecu with an android phone?
therealmaximus said:
Anyone think that they could replace a obd2 ecm/ecu with an android phone?
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I may be wrong, but:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque
ive seen these, they just read parameters from the computer via the obd diagnostic port, what i meant was actually removing the the obd computer and using an android device to receive the incoming sensor data and use the data such as rpm, throttle position, and so forth to advance or retard timing tables and fuel tables to actually run the engine i have tuning software for my honda that i can run and retune my engine with but only from my laptop id like to be able to do this with an android device.
[A] 😉 let me know
That's an interesting question and not what I thought it was when I first read your initil post. Reading it literally you're asking about replacing the actual 'brain' that conductor that co-ordinates the entire ignition,fueling,emmisions and other secondary parameters that make the engine run in a harmonious symphony(oh, whatever happened to self metering by atmospheric pressure drop and contact breakers lol). I read it as taking out the OE ecu/ecm/powertrain module or whatever other term you use for it and replacing it with an android device. An interesting exercise but hardly worth the mountain range of problems involved considering you can go out and buy a custom fully programmable ECU anyway.
That is how it sounds though when you say replacing the ecu with an android device. i.e removing the ecu and putting in one running android or a piggyback ecu running amdroid....... i know, i'm being maybe a little too pedantic but it drew me in and made me read the thread and am definitely interested in finding out if there are any android apps that can reprogram or flash an ecu similar to the ones that run on windows.
I've mentioned in another thread I have a deep knowledge and experience in the car side of the equation but my knowledge of computers themselves ranks about 'interested in knowinf more but basically capable of using one n that's it' level. Or tge same as 99.99% of car drivers. They can drive but beyond that all they really know is where to out the petrol in although 100,000s of them will say they know all about cars lol.
In other words, I see know reason why technically there are no equivalent android apps/devices that can do what software packages running windows you use on a laptop. I'm in a similar but different position than you. I really want that ability to remap/flash new firmware onto ecu's except right now I don't have a laptop or desktop of any kind right now. All my online and computer needs are admirably dealt with on my Note 3 so i haven't bothered replacing either my pc or laptop when they passed on.
Was on ebay recently and seen very interesting and potentially useful software claiming to be able communicate fully with any obd1 and 2 ecus allowing you to reset, remap and 'chip' any ecus and also fully set up a new replacement custom reprogrammable ecu too although i am skeptical you could buy one that fully capable for £20 off ebay but they promise full customer support and the ability to download an entire remap for almost any make amd model so perhaps their claims are based on the abilitynof their product rather than merely sales rhetoric.
Anyway, what I mean is I see no reason why if windows can fully communicate with obd2 and android can also read current and pending dtcs, display freeze frame, live data and allow you, if you know the particular formula, to view data with custom PIDs then it seems possible that a software package written for android couldn't be capable of doing wnat these windows/mac programmes can do. I'm sure I've seen linux compatible software for desktops out there so surely an android version is poasible. BUT as i explained my knowledge of computer systems/languages is risible so there may well be a glaringly obvious reason that android is unsuitable (there's probably 1000s of 10 year olds laughing lije mad thinking is this guy stupid or what lol).
BUT if you ever come accross such an software package that runs on android let me know because if not it looks like I'm going to have to go buy this 20 odd quid ebay software AND a bloody laptop on top to bw able to use it
In March, my sister in law and I found out that we were being “followed”, and that “someone” had it in for her and that her car was marked and there were/are pictures and videos of the both of us. Not too long after we were warned about that, she found a flash drive that was blinking in the computer at her home and took it and went to work and plugged it in and it was recordings of conversations we had in her car. To narrow it all down quickly, her husband was tracking her car, hacked into our cellphones and my home laptop computer, I also had found a recording device under the daybed in my bedroom. I had realized that things looked different in my home when I would come home and once my neighbor across the street told me my dog was out and that he chased him down and put him back, -there is NO WAY he could have gotten out unless someone opened the gate. A spare key was in our garage for our son in which his brother would come in while we were at work (our thoughts is to retrieve the device download it and put it back), but nevertheless we were invaded, seemingly for over a year. So I am trying to find out how to find if I am still being hacked (cell and laptop), how to block help myself from being hacked again, how to protect my wifi (i got my own separate one from our house one), and how to make use of the programs I have purchased as a result of being stalked in such a manner.
I now am in constant paranoia over my electronics and I need help. I have several questions to cover a variety of areas dealing with this situation and I truly and desperately need help. I have downloaded tutorials and have familiarized myself with some things, but I would like to speak to an expert.
If you can help please message me.
Michelle
Mimi44 said:
In March, my sister in law and I found out that we were being “followed”, and that “someone” had it in for her and that her car was marked and there were/are pictures and videos of the both of us. Not too long after we were warned about that, she found a flash drive that was blinking in the computer at her home and took it and went to work and plugged it in and it was recordings of conversations we had in her car. To narrow it all down quickly, her husband was tracking her car, hacked into our cellphones and my home laptop computer, I also had found a recording device under the daybed in my bedroom. I had realized that things looked different in my home when I would come home and once my neighbor across the street told me my dog was out and that he chased him down and put him back, -there is NO WAY he could have gotten out unless someone opened the gate. A spare key was in our garage for our son in which his brother would come in while we were at work (our thoughts is to retrieve the device download it and put it back), but nevertheless we were invaded, seemingly for over a year. So I am trying to find out how to find if I am still being hacked (cell and laptop), how to block help myself from being hacked again, how to protect my wifi (i got my own separate one from our house one), and how to make use of the programs I have purchased as a result of being stalked in such a manner.
I now am in constant paranoia over my electronics and I need help. I have several questions to cover a variety of areas dealing with this situation and I truly and desperately need help. I have downloaded tutorials and have familiarized myself with some things, but I would like to speak to an expert.
If you can help please message me.
Michelle
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If it is someone that is close to you, such as your sister in law's husband, it's gonna be hard because they have direct access to your hardware. The only thing I see fixing this situation is to involve law enforcement or some kind of measures to physically keep them away from your hardware. It's virtually impossible to protect the hens from the fox when the fox is inside the henhouse with the hens. It only works when the hens are on the inside and the fox is on the outside, if you understand what I'm saying.
Your biggest security threat in what you describe is a physical real world one, not an electronic or software one.
If he knows what he is doing and has physical access to your hardware, software and electronic safety measures won't help you because he could just bypass it.
If your issue was someone from the outside that doesn't have physical access to your hardware THEN software and electronic measures would give you a decent safety net. But in your situation I seriously doubt those measures will help you any.
Focus on the real problem.....HIM.
I DO NOT PROVIDE HELP IN PM, KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE