Related
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
EDIT:
I'm keeping my original post above, partly because there have been too many responses to make removing it reasonable, and partly because I'd like something to review the next time I decide to try and put my thoughts out there to the community.
I never imagined that I would draw so much criticism over this post. I honestly thought I did a pretty good job of making it apparent that I truly appreciate all of the developers' work. I'm a huge fan of the Android platform and of open source projects in general. Allow me to draw a poorly crafted and weak analogy, if I may:
I love my two-year old boy dearly. He's a fantastic kid and big bright spot in my life. He has asthma, and I really do hate providing his breathing treatments. It doesn't mean I'm not thankful for the technology that allows him to breathe, and I certainly wouldn't consider trading him in for a different model without such issues. I would, however, consider venting to other parents of an asthmatic child about how laborious the process of breathing treatments is, and how unfriendly it is towards children his age.
I'm not quite sure how I managed to come across as anti-open source, anti-developer, or at all unappreciative of our dedicated developers - but apparently that's exactly what I did, so for that I apologize. What is really awful is that with one well-intended post I feel that I have ostracized myself from a community that I thoroughly enjoy supporting.
So instead of being constructive... and building a ROM of your own or simply not using them, you're complaining? No one said you have to use them. No one said you have to update all the time.
Definitely not with you.
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
crayak said:
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a good point, and I have no problem waiting. I suppose I was just sharing my reflections.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I share you feelings somewhat. Thats why I picked a ROM (Cognition 2.1.6) and will stick with it until Froyo officially drops for the Captivate. I also hate having to restore a phone after a flash which is why I choose not to do it often.
vbhines said:
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually agree here. But this is sort of Google's thing in a lot of areas. Google Wave, Google Buzz etc. Google MASTERS searching. And everything else they throw stuff on a wall and some sticks and some don't. I worried about that with Android from the very beginning. They often times release half finished products and then allow the devs to finish (or not in some cases) the future of the product/service.
By going to 100 different carriers in 100 different iterations google may very well stop caring about the polished product and just allow the devs to do the rest.
When I had my HTC Hero I had a Flash addiction. Now I just have decided to stick with one build and update it when updates happen. There have been quite a few VERY recent improvements. SetIron's kernel is a fine example. Stuff is happening at a much faster pace than it was when I got my phone 2 months ago. There are twice as many ROMS if not more. Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming. If we're lucky Froyo and Gingerbread will share the same kernel so porting IT won't be a big deal either.
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
rfarrah said:
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
bradasmith said:
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Thank you for saying what I was trying to, but in far fewer words.
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
I have one issue with my phone, the GPS. While I'm mad it doesn't really work it's something I NEVER use. Other than that I'm running the latest Cognition rom and couldn't be happier.
gunnyman said:
.....Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is 100% the reason. I fully expect that there will be some amazing things done and some great roms released.
I don't know if it was mentioned or not already but the reason why there are so many beta versions of roms and why newer versions open up issues is for the same reason as above, no source code available. So be patient and I promise you'll be kicking yourself for making this thread.
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
i dont think apple is really copying xfce. ..macosx versions are terminal based and therefor unix like and very similar to linux. x11 window environments have been around for many year. xfce doesn't offer that much that i know of that isn't in others window managers. it is possible that the developers on all sides are taking ideas from each other, but i think since power user often have a lot of shortcuts setup to get through common tasks faster that they are implementing some of these things as presets. similarities can just as easily similar minds overcoming very common problems. granted many developers may be running alternate os's and may be inspired by the other. not that i dont believe in corperate espionage i certainly do but i think a lot of things are just obvious solutions.
the problem with phones is that the manufacturers can lock us out and the locks can be difficult to break. you are right that google doesnt own the os but the manufacturers have proprietary source along side the source that they must release because it was taken from google. at some point it makes development dificult. i think we need an emphasis on aosp to build roms from. not because i like the google software, i find it plain and ugly, but because once aosp is figured out there is more understanding of how it all fits together and ports become easier.
i just cant wait to see the day when we can custom order aosp compatible hardware and build phones based on what our priorities are and what we can afford. i know we cant actually solder the boards our selves with surface mount but it could be done on an assembly line with robots if a manufacturer decided to use them to there full potential.
vbhines said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with your more about your criticism about Samsung - but I'm not sure how this applies for Android as a whole. The closest thing you can say is Android fails to exclude poorly performing companies - but that's not much of a statement, is it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Dani897 said:
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EsotericPunk said:
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said Androiders!
+10
Then go wait on the sidelines for a cyanogen port. We, galaxy s phone owners. Don't and won't need huge steps beyond what we have. Your expectations are limited to what your old phone needed to perform.
You are right its silly. And unnecessary. Find a new hobby if porting roms isn't doing it for you.
vbhines said:
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
ViewSonic is putting together a developers' site for all our Android products, and would love your input as to key items to include. Obviously we may not be able to include everything, but want to create something you'll find useful and valuable.
Please post your wishes here!
Thanks,
-Adam
1. HDMI out.....not through a dock
2. IPS or better screen
3. 1GB + Ram
4. 16GB + internal sdcard
5. USB ports
6. Mini and micro sdcard support
7. Released source
8. 3G/4G option
9. Optional ssd
10. GPS option
11. Bluetooth
12. WIFI of course
13. Support updating operating system for at least 2 years instead of "release and forget.....*cough* sam *cough* sung"
14. Leave the bootloader unlocked for the crazies like me that want to hack no matter the consequences. If I brick I'll eat it.
15. Keep up the good customer service you currently have
16. Quit making promises about flash when you don't have control over Adobe lol
OH yeah......Can I have my Honeycreams please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDIT: BTW....I am retired and would make a perfect person to test new products for you. Hint Hint
thebadfrog said:
1. HDMI out.....not through a dock
2. IPS or better screen
3. 1GB + Ram
4. 16GB + internal sdcard
5. USB ports
6. Mini and micro sdcard support
7. Released source
8. 3G/4G option
9. Optional ssd
10. GPS option
11. Bluetooth
12. WIFI of course
13. Support updating operating system for at least 2 years instead of "release and forget.....*cough* sam *cough* sung"
14. Leave the bootloader unlocked for the crazies like me that want to hack no matter the consequences. If I brick I'll eat it.
15. Keep up the good customer service you currently have
16. Quit making promises about flash when you don't have control over Adobe lol
OH yeah......Can I have my Honeycreams please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I think that pretty much covers it, especially the part about honeycreams.
edit: it would be great if viewsonic devs put together a recovery package suited for the gtab since the only version of cwm that seems to work on this device is bekits modified version v.08
OfficialViewSonic said:
ViewSonic is putting together a developers' site for all our Android products, and would love your input as to key items to include.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It sounds like VS is asking for suggestions about what to include in the developer's site - that is, what information would be useful for developers creating apps to run on the GTablet and other VS Android tablets...as opposed to a wish list of features for the devices themselves.
Twitter feed answered by an engineer/development team member.
If you want to go hardcore.
Provide things like git hosting to selected xda developers.
Create some sort of cloud based compiling system and provide that to the developers as well.
Wait...you wanted suggestions for a web site. Look at this forum and add very strong mods to keep the clutter down. If your "official" site is not gonna allow the fun things we like to do to our tabs it probably won't gather much attention. However just keeping your online manuals and source files updated would be great. Allowing a private area for people to test UATs instead of them leaking into XDA would be kinda nice as well. I understand for legal reasons you couldn't have certain topics but it would be nice if just 1 provider of tabs would at least acknowledge the benefits of having the devs do their magic.
I was aware of what he wanted....just thought I would get my dream machine out there
It does seem like there could be a model out there for a vendor to create some sort of NDA protected developers program for early adoption.
Not releasing any files prior to official launch, but acknowledging that at launch those files will be stripped from another device. For example if company X has a legacy product Y1 and in the fall Y2 is coming out with a newer OS that could potentially be applied to Y1 then instead of waiting for Y2 to come out and people break their Y1's trying poor approaches to modification (and damaging your brand in thier eyes) you provide a group of developers lead time access without permission to release until say 3 months after Y2 comes out. This is double edged that it protects your competitive market strategy of Y2 while respecting the investment Y1 customers have made and recognizing the expectations of the users of the overall operating system you have choosen to utilize.
Had to read it twice but ^^^^^^^^^^^^what he said. There are several people here that would love this kind of opportunity. (This guy included)
Hi,
I'm not one of the devs here, but, from working w the Gtab, some of the things that would be useful would be:
- info on the BCT and partitions. There's some generic info around the web, but it seems like mostly reverse-engineered, read: guesses.
- source for bootloader and recovery (these may be proprietary, but maybe release under NDA?)
JMHO...
Jim
Adam
What would the company like to get out of starting such a project? That would dictate what should be included from a logical standpoint.
If only for research and testing then that would be something totally different especially for the folks here that know how to play with code? I would just guess if given the right information, tools and a place to share and explore the android system with support from your company , it would be taken to a level that the average user of mobile devices right now couldn't even imagine.
Android will in all likely become the system of choice surpassing the mighty Redmond and great apple.
I step back from my soapbox and blend back into lurking mode
Thanks,for responding to our calls and emails "for action and after purchase support." I bought from a retailer who was not allowing returns nor refunds, however, I did get a service plan. After working with it, I would not return it. Thanks to the incredible hardware and developer support from this site.
-Add direct movie streaming capability like from Netflix
-Easy beaming to other devices
-Easy tethering
-VPN
-Firewall or data encryption
-Public network privacy protection
-Standard auto attachment slot for GPS, music streaming, etc. making it interchangeable (I have an auto Navi/GPS (plus usb & bluetooth) about the size of this panel--thinking future forward--truly wishful thinking).
-Smart reader for scanning business cards, docs, etc. into it
-3G, 4G plus talk, fax modem capability
-Task Switcher or Manager
All I can think of now, will add more in case I forgot something.
Not a dev myself, but if this project was able to give us consumers some of my below suggestions, im sure many of us would be very happy and willing to continue to purchase VS products.
1) Real working market (I realise this is dependant on VS sorting things out with Google).
2) Required lib / drivers to use USB GPS and USB 3G.
3) For times when compatibility of software can be a task issue, the option to be able to dual boot to say WINCE. So basically WINCE support. This is for those like myself who cannot use our work related networks due to the limited proxy configurations support that Android currently has.
1: forum for known bugs list in current factory rom
2: forum for workarounds and non warranty breaking fixes for forrum #1
3: link to xda, with the caviot that using instructions from the sight could break warenty/brick/Bork the gtablet, for those who are fearless. (I have have purchased viewsonic monitors for my whole computing career, you could use an image boost. I love your brand so I think spending money reping android would bring a lot of life back to you. )
4:full software disclosure. At this point its all about power, ui, and price. You have the power and the price... recognize that 98% of your tab sails are to people who take your ui and toss it without a second thought. Not being mean, just honest.
USB
I would like to see is better support for USB drives. I would like to be able to use all my hard drives and thumb drives. Thumb drives work now but some times I plug them in and they are not recognized, forcing me to reboot.
For that matter move drivers for USB devices in general.
notsob2002 said:
Adam
What would the company like to get out of starting such a project? That would dictate what should be included from a logical standpoint.
If only for research and testing then that would be something totally different especially for the folks here that know how to play with code? I would just guess if given the right information, tools and a place to share and explore the android system with support from your company , it would be taken to a level that the average user of mobile devices right now couldn't even imagine.
Android will in all likely become the system of choice surpassing the mighty Redmond and great apple.
I step back from my soapbox and blend back into lurking mode
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We are looking to provide a centralized source for all the code/content/specs/details/etc you need for our Android-based products. But rather than guess what to put there for y'all, we'd prefer to ask! ;-)
OfficialViewSonic said:
We are looking to provide a centralized source for all the code/content/specs/details/etc you need for our Android-based products. But rather than guess what to put there for y'all, we'd prefer to ask! ;-)
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It's kind of funny that here you are asking for dev input and not a single one of our wonderful devs (you know who you are) have posted a response. I assume they are doing their communicating behind the scenes with you but that is purely a hunch on my part.
Anyway, I LOVE my gTab running VEGAn beta 5.1.1 but fully support your interest in helping our cookers so they can make your product as well as their product better.
sjmoreno said:
It's kind of funny that here you are asking for dev input and not a single one of our wonderful devs (you know who you are) have posted a response. I assume they are doing their communicating behind the scenes with you but that is purely a hunch on my part.
Anyway, I LOVE my gTab running VEGAn beta 5.1.1 but fully support your interest in helping our cookers so they can make your product as well as their product better.
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Click to collapse
I agree that the intent of the request was for what features would you like them to provide on their site, not in their products.
I think a forum, such as this, would be nice, especially if you can get the viewsonic developers to sign on to responding in a timely manner.
If you (viewsonic) are serious about reaching out to the developers, I think you have a great opportunity to make your system open and developer/modder friendly and become a leader in that category. could definitely be a great opportunity for you guys.
Oh, and perhaps a legal repository for .apks which are not available to us in the market for easy installation...
I assume VS goal is to sell tablets. You have developed a good hardware platform at a great price point. A few changes and you have a great platform. To sell more tablets you need slick firmware. The devs at XDA have accomplished that with minimal support. Full support would work wonders. Suggest ask the devs what they need, in what order and what detail. Might even give them access to your dev team. Website should have dev only section and a well updated what is going on section to elliminate the repetitive " are we there yet" questions.
If you are sincere in this offer, it should provide a great benefit to both VS and it' s users. Lookout ipad here we come.
All Android devices need work to play in the corporate environment. Security needs to beefed up, the ability to integrate with MS Exchange servers, work with proxy, vpn, and whatever other security stuff is comes out. IPV6 is a requirement too.
OfficialViewSonic said:
We are looking to provide a centralized source for all the code/content/specs/details/etc you need for our Android-based products. But rather than guess what to put there for y'all, we'd prefer to ask! ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, go ahead and start the forum and post a link for us so we can start using with all the information that you have and can release and make adjustments as needed. You never know what will happen it may be more helpful to people than they may think and if nothing else it would be beneficial to people who just bought one of your products and don't understand the product and its capabilities.
Thanks for having the forethought to ask because most companies probably wouldn't even think of trying to get independent development for their product from outside of their sales or IT department! Thinking like that might actually make you the leader in a soon to be crowed market
Removed the OP in protest due to the abusive I endured by some XDA members. In spite of reporting them to the moderates of the forums in question and my views were shared with more members than the abusers one of my threads was closed instead.
To those truly care about technology and its surrounding matters, please accept my sincere apologies for this inconvenience. I will no longer be part of the XDA community. Thank you.
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
CSharpHeaven said:
Part 2
Applications & Games
The very exaggerated figure (over 400,000) by Google is only to generate market hypes and to give an impression how popular the Android platform is.
The truth is Google has used hundreds of thousands of hopeful individuals with prospect of success to submit anything to fight back Apple's App Store, only in terms of numbers that is. The chance to success, financially, on Google's Play Store is only very small for established vendors and even smaller for individuals when the competition exceeds by vast numbers. Think of the odds in lottery to come to the same conclusion.
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You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Spell checker?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you are not the only XDA member that can read.
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website-server stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump onto my harddrives, mess it all up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever the hell they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this was my first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality from app to app varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems. the underbelly of android with its signing-mechanisms, permission-transparency, packet-installer, subtle notifications, etc., all this works for me and im using my desktop less and less for a reason.
molesarecoming said:
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump into my systems, mess it up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this is the first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality of the apps varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your inputs. I would like to clarify a couple of things, if you don't mind.
I have never made a comment about the Google Play Store's update process that updates the downloaded applications. Since you did, I do agree with you regarding the advantages you rightly addressed. What I might not agree with you is the trust where my credit card details can be added to the profile Google creates for all the citizens.
My point, that you responded to, was about the inability Android OS has to update itself the way, for example, Microsoft Windows or Apple's iOS can. Also the only thing Android can update on any Android handsets is the Google Play Store app. I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T. Believe me, being a software developer I can tolerate high mental pressures but that experience was something else. I don't wish anyone else go through the same experience ever and they shouldn't really.
I've been writing this article with the consideration of the bigger issues. I cannot conclude Android is a good platform based on a small technical convenience when I have vivid visions on what Google is doing with Android and beyond the mobile space.
If my ID suggests I must be a Microsoft's fan then allow me to say to the readers that I have only two Android phones which I use one of them to write my article and this response. Also I use an Android phone as my primary device, using up to three 1930mAh batteries a day. No, I don't watch movies on my phones but listen to music from time to time.
nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
His name leads me to believe Microsoft Fanboi - C# is a Microsoft language very similar to java - but has enough similarities to be it's own language.
edit - you posted at a similar time to me.
I will read this from now on, but probably won't comment. I enjoy hearing what ppl have to say.
i have to use c# daily in my job, its great, my favourite until now. did you know that google once played with the thought to make it androids base language? read it somewhere. must be a myth though.
---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------
CSharpHeaven said:
I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, i am certainly pissed that my older handset, the s2, caught a disease called touchwizz recently instead of the modern operatig system i was hoping for. but falling ill? come on, get another phone, an iphone maybe, or if you still have hopes for android a nexus, and all will be fine. i learned my lesson from this, i'll never, ever buy something that is not directly maintained by google itself. i heard some people really loved touchwiz and samsungs efforts, to each his own. i thing its nice though that you have the choice.
I've lurked around these forums for a while, occasionally dabbling in various models that I've owned or had an interest in. I've now decided that it's high time a complete fleet of apps were developed with CM in mind.
Introducing tinyApps!
The concept is relatively simple. Cyanogen is often a means of experiencing a newer version of Android on a device that is otherwise unsupported. For example: I have an HTC Desire Z as a daily driver. I run CM10.1 (or android 4.2.2) and it performs pretty damned well. I've also owned much less powerful phones, such as the Optimus ME P350 from LG, on which I ran 4.0.4, and found most apps very demanding.
I'm going to be developing, over the course of several months, the following apps:
tRadio
tMusic
tWeb
tFiles
tFilms
and last, but by no means least, tGallery.
These are all applications that I have found to be reasonably demanding, or unsuccessful in meeting my expectations.
I'm gonna get paid!
I'm not going to canvas for donations, that isn't my style. Instead, I'm going to fund these apps by adverts. I'll be sure to keep these as unintrusive as possible, eg:
No full-screen adverts (if possible)
In the same place across all applications
placed so as to avoid accidental clicks
as static as possible, to avoid excess data charges
removable by a fee made as small as possible - e.g 50p UK sterling
I'm very keen to hear suggestions and feature requests, although please keep in mind that these apps are designed to be as small as possible. If all goes well, we can perhaps push for them to be included as part of CyanogenMod (Nobody ever said I wasn't aspirational, no?).
&Delinquent[$] said:
I've lurked around these forums for a while, occasionally dabbling in various models that I've owned or had an interest in. I've now decided that it's high time a complete fleet of apps were developed with CM in mind.
Introducing tinyApps!
The concept is relatively simple. Cyanogen is often a means of experiencing a newer version of Android on a device that is otherwise unsupported. For example: I have an HTC Desire Z as a daily driver. I run CM10.1 (or android 4.2.2) and it performs pretty damned well. I've also owned much less powerful phones, such as the Optimus ME P350 from LG, on which I ran 4.0.4, and found most apps very demanding.
I'm going to be developing, over the course of several months, the following apps:
tRadio
tMusic
tWeb
tFiles
tFilms
and last, but by no means least, tGallery.
These are all applications that I have found to be reasonably demanding, or unsuccessful in meeting my expectations.
I'm gonna get paid!
I'm not going to canvas for donations, that isn't my style. Instead, I'm going to fund these apps by adverts. I'll be sure to keep these as unintrusive as possible, eg:
No full-screen adverts (if possible)
In the same place across all applications
placed so as to avoid accidental clicks
as static as possible, to avoid excess data charges
removable by a fee made as small as possible - e.g 50p UK sterling
I'm very keen to hear suggestions and feature requests, although please keep in mind that these apps are designed to be as small as possible. If all goes well, we can perhaps push for them to be included as part of CyanogenMod (Nobody ever said I wasn't aspirational, no?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting concept but really just an empty thread. It would be awesome if you could update others on what the project looks like and more detail!
If you ever need any help in designs and such, do contact me. I'm also interested in the development of (what now seems very alpha) the app. :good:
Nice.
I suggest that you can access that application in "small" window like Sony smart app do. I'd be great
Araragi said:
Nice.
I suggest that you can access that application in "small" window like Sony smart app do. I'd be great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thatll take a lot if effort though
XD.
I'd be great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its: That'll be great
Araragi said:
Nice.
I suggest that you can access that application in "small" window like Sony smart app do. I'd be great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll second this idea!
Also a video player or is that films?
OlinB said:
I'll second this idea!
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Click to collapse
Creating a Sony styled Small apps requires something along the Sony framework for those things to work so gd luck!
Look out! tRadio is coming sometime next month!
Interested to see what you have what in store
Sent from my C5303 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Well, I had this idea 2 days ago, and I've given it a lot of thought. I want to rip apart AOSP and rebuild it using python and elf binaries instead of making everything in Java and making a decision file so it seems faster and more responsive... I want to rip out the Dalvik JVM, rip out everything pretty much, port the latest python, as well as the 2.7.x legacy python interpreters to Android and build an interface for loading python compiled or uncompiled(well JIT compile it whenever the md5 hash changes of the installed package, and also add support for pure elf binaries as packaged apps for the heavy lifting and performance, and rebuild from as little code from AOSP as possible a whole phone system, with lighter apps and any apps really done in python, and give the option for the binaries for high performance and multithreaded apps. We'll be using FOSS products modified to suit our needs, and building everything phone related that we can't use with an open license in python. So essentially rewriting every system and user app, from scratch in python, and of course we can optimize with C libraries and for that extra performance boost I'll edit the libs if I feel it's worth it with asm optimization. Call me a masochist but I love finding uses for my asm skills. I'm a noob to Android specific development but have a good working of using Linux(I've been using it 20 years although I've only gotten good with it in the past few years. I've been coding for 25 years, 13+ of those were spent learning assembly and os development. I've written functional minimalist kernels for hobby projects in pure asm, both x86 and arm, although I'll admit I'm less practiced on the arm instruction sets. So, python and native binaries as apps instead of Dalvik Java, and an entire interface in these 2 options from the system UI to the dialer to the calculator... Etc... Most of the basic app set will be python based in my vision of how this will work, and the developers can use c or c++ or anything I port a compiler for or write one for, and a set of python libraries that are C based and also matching libs for the libc component, probably based mostly on the same code for both C and Python. I feel like supporting python will result in more app developers wanting to write for our marketplace because most coders I know agree with me that writing code in python is better for rapid deployment as well as being less of a pain to implement. So app market fills up faster, more app developers, high performance native elf binaries, and a completely new design offering competing features against Android and iOS. We will have to rewrite everything from the system UI to the typical basic user apps. I'm guessing I will take me between 6 and 8 months to get the OS to a point where it's ready for app developer to start working on the core apps, then when that's done we can release a beta that also serves as a developer preview build for people to populate a marketplace before the OS goes into a public beta phase, by which point the developer preview users should have some non-essential apps to add appeal to the OS. I don't want this to end like Symbian where you have a superior OS and no apps and no device support beyond a few crummy phones from one maker. I'm looking for input on what people think of this idea. We will still be bound by AOSP licenses unless I go crazy and go overkill replacing everything from top to bottom. I can write Android drivers, I can port the toolchains and interprter, and I can make some of the apps, but once the core of the OS is finished and the HAL is available to all our supported languages, I'm going to need app developers to help me because writing a huge complete and quality OS release by myself would take many years. If you have any comments or criticism or advice or anything to say about this new project please post it or message me. Right now I'm collecting e-mailed addresses or other contact info for people interested in app development. I have 6 people so far who want to help but a 7 man team can't build Rome in a day so I'm going to need support from others to make this happen in a reasonable time frame with a completive selection of useful apps.
I'd like to create a superior alternative to Android and do it in a way that will encourage it to be adopted by people and hopefully even device manufactures will pick it up once the project matures and be shipping phones with it as the stock ROM/OS. For now I'm in the research/hacking phase, as I only started about 36 hours ago and have only been working with Android as developers for a couple months, but I feel confident I can do this if the right people help out, and I feel like Android has gotten too bloated and people are just using it because it's better than iOS, but in reality iOS provides competing performance on far less powerful system specs, which I think we can achieve if this is done right. Which would put a normal 4-8 core Android phones performance off the charts in comparison. I have Nexus 5, a Galaxy S5 Neo, a Galaxy Grand Prime, and I'm going to order some more phones when I get paid so I have more devices to mess with and do kernels/driver developers for. I think at first though we start with a stripped down AOSP that boots and gives debugging and and other logs, both on screen and via ADB logcat, so that we have a debloated core system to build on top of, which is what I worked on for the past 36 hours straight. Now it's time for rest but I thought before I get the sleep I missed while working on this I would make a post here and see what other people think of the idea. If we package source and the core OS has the toolchains to build for the device being installed to, we can avoid the whole thing that Android does with binaries where they package every architecture into an apk and let the installer chose the one to use. I want this OS to be easy on RAM, CPU time, and as a result have much better battery life. So... 6-8 months is the timeframe I've given myself to make platform developers can build on, but it could be more or less depending on how I exactly do everything and what FOSS stuff I use compred to how much I build myself. I am a minimalist programmer who thinks that programmer today just use tools and code that is easy to write and less time consuming because they know most people have resources to waste, but I don't want a shred of bloat in this thing, and I want it to offer every useful feature Android+g-apps offers before rolling out the developer preview. I figure if I can find another 30-40 devs, the project could be ready to roll out as stable v1.0 in 2.5 to 3 years, and I feel like we could negotiate with IP creators to license their stuff for a cut of device licenses for manufactures using the system. It wouldn't be much money per device but if we can take large chunk of Android's market share the revenue could be significant. Maybe this is all a pipe dream but I want to do it both for myself and for the people who would want to use it, and the potential for profit isn't a bad thing to consider although there's no guarantee we'll make a single penny in the end. Since I was 7 years old and exploring the world of coding, I dreamed of doing OS development, and I realized this project has much better chance of being adopted than my homebrew x86_64 OS I've spent the last 6 years working on, so I've dropped that project and will be working on this 16-18 hours a day since my hobby is OS development and I love to take on challenges that force me to learn, adapt, and become better at what I already do and love which is coding. Sorry this has turned into a big rant but I'm done now. Any feedback positive, negative, or suggestions to modify my idea to improve what we end up with, will be greatly appreciated. You can even call me an idiot or moron but all the people who've told me I can't do things with Android have so far been proven wrong and labeled as pleb coders who think because no one else can do it, I can't... And I don't give up when I commit to something like this. The guys who said I couldn't make a Exynos/MALI 200 driver set for my custom kernels and ridiculed me for even trying were proved wrong in under 4 hours with my PoC kernel, which now has full hardware support. They said it was impossible to support undocumented hardware, they said I couldn't even make a ROM for it, and I'm beta testing the ROM I made right now as I type this post out. They said I couldn't do a lot of things and all it did was make me work faster so they looked worse for being naysayer. I am going to buy a bunch of phones for development with a variety of different hardware configurations, and I'm going to have this running on all of them eventually just to stick it to those pleb Android "hackers" who mocked me for setting lofty goals. I got into this because when I started looking around at how people do these things I instantly knew my years of coding and hacking and just messing with things to learn more about them would make me a great ROM Dev, the it quickly progressed and I got into modding AOSP, modding the kernel I based mine off of, and then when I was in my Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu class my mind wandered from the lesson just long enough to conceive this idea before I got choked out for not paying attention.
So yeah, again. need input, need other people's ideas to add to my own, need to know if there is enough support from the community to have a full set of apps plus more in a market place in a matter of a few years. I have too many ideas at this point and I can't use them all because some of them are incompatible with other ideas I have... But work has begun and I look forward to any comments or criticism, or mocking that will encourage me to prove more people wrong. Anything you got to say, speak your mind I won't hold it against you, I might even respect your input and adopt your idea(s) instead of my own if it/they are better than what I've been brInstorming since the conception of this project 2 days ago.
Sent from my prototype Galaxy S5 Neo ROM(work in progress)