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Found this interesting Article on Fudzilla regarding how Android could be killed off by the suppliers of the phones. Figured I would share
http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/item/21611-android-could-be-killed-off-by-suppliers
Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
I pretty much summed up the article that if, Google doesn't take tighter control of how the suppliers are updating the phones, and if Google themselves do not ease up on releasing updates, then it might drive people away from Android phones due to the lack of support.
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Well said and very true
johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
A majority of customers don't care about updating the firmware of the phone. If it works, they won't complain. If it doesn't work, they'll bring it back for a warranty repair or simply get a new phone.
johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right.
On the other hand, i'm right outside that 10% bunch, but i'm just 17 and if i **** up my phone it won't be so good for me. I rooted, but i guess i am dumb enough not to know terminals and flashing and pushing stuff here and there
Anyhow- Android won't be killed. That's like when they said Linux was to be killed off in the early 2000's because Windows machines were supplied with an X amount of memory (about a 100mb extra than those running a distro)
Won't happen I mean come on what you think is the alternative? They want to pay the license? What happens if upgrade comes? who you think will pick up RIM? lol they are dead who else iOS? Sorry thats for iPanzy and who use that come on now, only other alternative is WM.
Also who wants to fight big Google? You think they will let it go easy? They can buy the ****ing company out and change the decision if they cared to just to send single message. Also then you have the user who can and is doing what they want hence you are on XDA? F the carrier support thats like saying you are bound to software hence your PC?
But the biggest problem with mobile world is the hardware which is not actually openly shared as opposed to computing world, where one can actually code the driver for support. BTW voddles your last sentence didn't make sense what so ever take it from someone who been using Slackware since it was created.
I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Search function is limited too (In Market and others) It's impossible to editing an old search, you have to enter everything again.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
Wanna have a new non Win, IOS, Bada, Android or Nokia stuff. Phone OS. Now.
Will not follow your guys inte 2.2 or 2.3
Journalism just seems to go down the toilet in the highly competitive virtual world of the internet.
"While HTC appears to be ahead of the game at getting new updates to uses, some outfits, particularly Motorola are developing a jolly bad name for themselves. You could upgrade yourself but he problem is getting your paws on unlocked boot loaders. Motorola's upcoming phones have locked bootloaders."
Locked bootloaders have nothing to do with official updates.
"However it looks to us like Google is going to need to put its foot down fast before the suppliers start killing off its operating system. The last thing people want is to get an Android phone and find it can't do something that has been advertised because some phone maker could not be bothered upgrading."
Put its foot down on a free OS? Ads go out advertising that all Android phones support roms? That all Android phone are upgradeable to the latest, greatest Android OS?
The whole article looks to be written by someone attempting to be sensational but really has no clue.
I remember when Android was new and you had all these manufacturers "skinning" Android. I was worried that a user may confuse a skin with the primary OS and incorrectly give credit or blame to that skin. People seem to love Sense UI and hate Motoblur. You impression of Android could vary depending on if you used an HTC vs a Motorola. That clearly did not happen.
Blåburk said:
I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
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Click to collapse
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
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'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?
Never gonna happen.
ksizzle9 said:
Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Everything said here is somewhat true and somewhat false. We all have our opinions, we all have different expectations from our phones...
What i don't understand is, and i say this from a developer perspective, why would any mobile device manufacturer, like Sony, lock out their devices? Same goes for Apple etc etc
I mean, i think far more ppl would actually buy their products if they know that they have a open device and that it can run on all carriers. I mean, i actually bought my 1st iPhone just because of the fact that someone made an unlock tool so u could use it outside of AT&T networks...
As for the OS side, Android wont die ofc, and i believe its a good thing that Google publishes updates to it so fast. This means they are really dedicated to the project and that they really care for developers so they can make much better apps, with more features and capabilities.
voddles said:
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?
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Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Just one remark a phone made by SE but using the Google Android do have a somethings with the Google to do, doesn't it.
The rest of what you wrote is not worth comments.
Sorry for upsetting you
When do you think an android OS for desktops will be created?
Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
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LOL now thats comedy.
I have to somewhat agree with you about the virtual keyboard. Now coming from HD2 which has the best stock keyboard I have ever seen. The arrow key and able to select via drag is best when you typing but on AOSP the whole idea is retarded. I can still type every fast but not fast as I once was on HD2 then again where is that whole 4.3" out there.
Nice read but those publishers are idiots.
I personally am always going to be sticking with HTC. They usually update most of there phones and even if they dont someone will have rooted it and just made a <insert android version here> rom. Plus even if no one can root it i still love Htc Sense and it looks 100x better than Motoblur or whatever Sony uses.
Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now now children... please lighten up, much more important things in this world to be getting upset or to "fight" over... honestly...
a subs0nic G2 bass cann0n blast0id via andr0id
so true.....only 10% of peopel like us know what we really want to do with our phones....
This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.
Excellent post. Would read again.
Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.
This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
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Click to collapse
Good understanding
I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium Apps
I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!
Great post, good read!!
Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.
I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using XDA App
(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
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Click to collapse
You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...
I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.
Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'
I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
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Click to collapse
Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.
ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
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+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218075/Mystery_of_the_missing_Honeycomb_apps
Really good, looks like they did their homework...not that I feel much better about hoping more apps come along shortly after reading this-lol
Question: Tegra Zone is mentioned as a place to, also, get apps. Is anyone familiar with them as in do I have to be rooted, etc....I've never heard of them.
sunsetbay said:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218075/Mystery_of_the_missing_Honeycomb_apps
Really good, looks like they did their homework...not that I feel much better about hoping more apps come along after reading this-lol
Question: Tegra Zone is mentioned as a place to, also, get apps. Is anyone familiar with them as in do I have to be rooted, etc....I've never heard of them.
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Click to collapse
They sure did, and as you say...there won't be a rush for more apps on the market.
For the tegra zone:
You do not need to have your TF rooted. It's listed at googlemarket
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.nvidia.tegrazone&feature=search_result
sparven89 said:
They sure did, and as you say...there won't be a rush for more apps on the market.
For the tegra zone:
You do not need to have your TF rooted. It's listed at googlemarket
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.nvidia.tegrazone&feature=search_result
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply, sparven89
I think I will give this app a try and I see they have a couple of games I might want to try.
Thanks!
I enjoy crapshooting and refunding apps. I bought over 500 apps, refunded over 300. It is a fun process
frosty5689 said:
I enjoy crapshooting and refunding apps. I bought over 500 apps, refunded over 300. It is a fun process
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+1, if only Google gave you a bit more than 15 minutes before you could refund the app you don't want .
Yup it's odd how Google are known for their great search engine, yet have the worst search function ever in the android market. I don't buy that bit in the article about there not being enough demand for developers to want to create apps for HC though. There's loads of demand for apps in just about every section (other than for twitter, enough already!).
Everyone,
I found another new article about Android apps vs HP Touchpad having 400 at release on July 1st - (Android around 200+):
"Does the HP TouchPad Have More Tablet Apps Than Android?" (Apparently it may have and how they did it...yet I wonder if this is true)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387999,00.asp
I do like this part in the article "Google, as I've said before, wouldn't comment. But I've heard through the grapevine that they're working on improvements for the Android Market—it's just nothing they'll confirm. It's an obvious move, though."
On the personal side, I love my TF and number of apps isn't an issue for me-I have plenty(s). But, I am following the posts of others and some apps they want, so I find the whole subject interesting.
Google has so much riding on this...changes have to coming shortly that helps the developers and what they're waiting for. Well, just my 2 cents(s) and interesting to follow.
frosty5689 said:
I enjoy crapshooting and refunding apps. I bought over 500 apps, refunded over 300. It is a fun process
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Click to collapse
jonitfcfan said:
+1, if only Google gave you a bit more than 15 minutes before you could refund the app you don't want .
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Seems more behind the scenes on this front happening, at least in Taiwan:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/07/01/2003507141
Apple is complying with Taiwan's 7 day refund policy on their stores and Google
has pulled their paid apps, so far, rather than comply...well!?? Google has to July 14th, certainly hope they don't handle it like this.
I agree with you both 100% that 15 minutes is not enough time. I've already
been caught on an app Moon+Reader Pro $4.99 causing my screen to flash repeatedly when I used the Text to Speech, so I immediately deleted it.
Since it took me almost an hour to get to this point, I wrote the developer for a refund...very polite & I'd be willing to try again if it was fixed. I waited 3 days and no response, then I left a 1 star review in the marketplace, again polite & details.
My review days later never showed up either. Call me skeptic, but I have wondered if I was censored by the 1 star rating & possibly because I said the developer hadn't responded to refund request...ah, guess that's a clue-lol.
So what are you going to do, just being honest & following the rules Google set in place, didn't work for me.
Shame because other's experience is what I reply on when purchasing an app.
Actually, this has been my one and only problem. But, it was a biggie the way it fell through the cracks when I actually asked for a refund.
sunsetbay said:
Seems more behind the scenes on this front happening, at least in Taiwan:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/07/01/2003507141
Apple is complying with Taiwan's 7 day refund policy on their stores and Google
has pulled their paid apps, so far, rather than comply...well!?? Google has to July 14th, certainly hope they don't handle it like this.
I agree with you both 100% that 15 minutes is not enough time. I've already
been caught on an app Moon+Reader Pro $4.99 causing my screen to flash repeatedly when I used the Text to Speech, so I immediately deleted it.
Since it took me almost an hour to get to this point, I wrote the developer for a refund...very polite & I'd be willing to try again if it was fixed. I waited 3 days and no response, then I left a 1 star review in the marketplace, again polite & details.
My review days later never showed up either. Call me skeptic, but I have wondered if I was censored by the 1 star rating & possibly because I said the developer hadn't responded to refund request...ah, guess that's a clue-lol.
So what are you going to do, just being honest & following the rules Google set in place, didn't work for me.
Shame because other's experience is what I reply on when purchasing an app.
Actually, this has been my one and only problem. But, it was a biggie the way it fell through the cracks when I actually asked for a refund.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
am i being daft ? ive got no 'optimised for tablet' section in my market app ????
wilbur-force said:
am i being daft ? ive got no 'optimised for tablet' section in my market app ????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not aware of anything like this either. Is there supposed to be one ?
I think the tablet section is only for the USA.
Damn those Yanks, getting everything first...well, almost .
Misleading
There are several things mentioned in the article (like every other article decrying the state of HC apps) that are false or misleading:
The number of Honeycomb-optimized apps remains in the low hundreds. By comparison, there are over 100,000 apps optimized for the iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course the iPad has been out for a full year longer, that number was much lower three months after its release (which is approximately how long its been since the Xoom was released). It looks like it was about 10,000 based on a quick googling. That's quite a big difference from 100,000 (like, an order of magnitude).
There is also the question of how they are counting these "Honeycomb-optimized apps". There is no provision in the market, or in the metadata that describes an app to determine if it is "optimized" or not. Unless a developer explicitly denies the app for a certain screen size, a certain device, or requires a feature that the device doesn't have, then it will most likely run. If its just a question of "will it run?" then we have tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of Honeycomb apps. Beyond that, where can you draw the line to say that an app is "optimized"? This is a subjective question that can't be used as the basis for such an empirical evaluation.
I can offer my own apps (linked in sig) as an anecdotal example. Both worked on day one on Honeycomb, with no changes needed. All the text and graphics were crisp, clean and appropriately sized. They did not look ugly, just not as efficiently designed as they could have. Shortly after HC dropped, I updated them with a minor change to make use of the native Action Bar in HC for menu items. The rest of the UI (mostly list views), while great for a small phone screen, wastes a lot of space on a tablet screen that is several times larger. I'm currently working on refactoring the UI components into fragments, to improve the HC experience. At this point, all the fragments are in, and working, but I have not yet implemented a new activity/layout for HC devices which will make use of the extra screen space to place multiple fragments on the screen at once. At what point is my app then "optimized"? Day one (when it worked)? Once it made use of the action bar (more consistent UI)? When it was refactored into fragments (easier to detect this automatically)? Or when I add separate layouts that make use of a larger screen's real estate (most of us would say this is "optimized", but the point is we don't have any way to tell besides looking at it and making a judgement).
All Android 2.x apps will run on Android 3.x, but oftentimes the text just looks awkwardly small and clunky; this is because the Android SDK does not automatically scale fonts, so developers must create their own code to get their fonts to scale up or down within their apps, which can be extremely tricky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as fonts are specified in "sp" (scale independent pixels) units, this happens automatically.
When graphics are involved, you must use higher-resolution graphics and program them to be scalable, so that when they are on a larger screen they won't become pixilated. However, this requires the size of your app to be larger, and it may put more of a strain on the device's processor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. Having different resources for different screen densities or sizes is well documented and as easy as putting them in specially named folders. This was already done to make apps look good on LDPI, MDPI, and HDPI devices. It does increase the size of the app, but it will have virtually no performance penalty.
Many pundits have speculated that perhaps the holdup is in anticipation of Ice Cream Sandwich, which will theoretically merge Android's phone and tablet platforms, helping to end fragmentation, and which is due to arrive this fall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if this were true, its not the release of ICS developers are waiting on, but the point where adoption is widespread enough that they can safely drop support for previous versions (this wont happen for quite a while, as we've seen from the last several releases of Android).
To the author's credit, they acknowledge this and state that none of the developers they talked to felt this was a roadblock, but I have seen other articles promoting this idea.
This article was one of the more fair and balanced looks at the subject I have seen, but still upholds some myths about Android app development. The fact is, most any app that was built following the Android UI guidelines worked and looked fine without any changes for Honeycomb. Their UI may just not have been the most efficient for a tablet sized screen. In comparison, iPhone apps, using the 2x scaling on the iPad, look pretty terrible. This, combined with faster hardware adoption by consumers, is what prompted developers to port more apps to the iPad quicker than we are seeing for Honeycomb. The fact that my apps looked "good enough" on HC is why I didn't feel like there was much of a rush to put in the work to "optimize" them. Google made the right call by making Android as resolution/density agnostic as possible, as opposed to iOS's initial assumption of a single screen size and resolution. While iOS developers had to scramble to get iPad optimized versions of their apps out quickly, Android developers are able to take their time and (hopefully) do it right. There will be more HC "optimized" apps, as more tablets are sold, and more developers decide its worth their time to invest in it.
maxpower47, Thank you as a developer jumping in and adding clarification. I've reread your post several times and now I'm clearer on understanding the article and difference between optimized and 'working apps' as the article seemed to implied to be very low in number.
"Even if this were true, its not the release of ICS developers are waiting on, but the point where adoption is widespread enough that they can safely drop support for previous versions (this wont happen for quite a while, as we've seen from the last several releases of Android).
To the author's credit, they acknowledge this and state that none of the developers they talked to felt this was a roadblock, but I have seen other articles promoting this idea."
Interesting!
"This article was one of the more fair and balanced looks at the subject I have seen, but still upholds some myths about Android app development. The fact is, most any app that was built following the Android UI guidelines worked and looked fine without any changes for Honeycomb."
This sure is a myth that I was holding, so again I appreciate your contribution to understanding this better...much appreciated!
sunsetbay said:
Everyone,
I found another new article about Android apps vs HP Touchpad having 400 at release on July 1st - (Android around 200+):
"Does the HP TouchPad Have More Tablet Apps Than Android?" (Apparently it may have and how they did it...yet I wonder if this is true)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387999,00.asp
I do like this part in the article "Google, as I've said before, wouldn't comment. But I've heard through the grapevine that they're working on improvements for the Android Market—it's just nothing they'll confirm. It's an obvious move, though."
On the personal side, I love my TF and number of apps isn't an issue for me-I have plenty(s). But, I am following the posts of others and some apps they want, so I find the whole subject interesting.
Google has so much riding on this...changes have to coming shortly that helps the developers and what they're waiting for. Well, just my 2 cents(s) and interesting to follow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android SDK sucks balls.
WebOS SDK does not.
Result = More WebOS apps.
JCopernicus said:
Android SDK sucks balls.
WebOS SDK does not.
Result = More WebOS apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, er... what? More webOS apps than Android apps? In which universe?
I'll tell you, I stuck with webOS for 18 months before giving up because the app situation over there is such a mess. I think there's still only about 6,000 official (non-homebrew) apps for webOS, and many (most?) of those don't run on the TouchPad outside of a silly little emulation window. And there's as much junk in the webOS App Catalog as there are good apps. I think the only category with good apps is Twitter clients, which is why you'll find most webOS entusiasts constantly talking about the latest Twitter app.
I'm also astounded that there are only 300 or so TouchPad-optimized apps, given that HP is the world's largest tech company and has a huge vested interest in seeing webOS succeed. Couldn't they do SOMETHING to get more apps written before launching the TouchPad?
My golly, but saying that the webOS SDK being good (which is hugely debatable, given all of the SDK's limitations since webOS was announced) resulting in more webOS apps is just laughable. I have thousands of apps available for my TF, across every major category. If I were to swap my TF for a TouchPad, I'd be giving up a wide variety of useful apps and would essentially give up most of the value of owning a tablet.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
I meant in terms of "tablet" apps.
(which I know just means XL v11 support).
maxpower47 said:
Or when I add separate layouts that make use of a larger screen's real estate (most of us would say this is "optimized", but the point is we don't have any way to tell besides looking at it and making a judgement).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is definitely "Optimized" to me. As much as function is important, I think it's equally as important for an app to utilize screen real-estate properly.
The fact is, most any app that was built following the Android UI guidelines worked and looked fine without any changes for Honeycomb. Their UI may just not have been the most efficient for a tablet sized screen. In comparison, iPhone apps, using the 2x scaling on the iPad, look pretty terrible. This, combined with faster hardware adoption by consumers, is what prompted developers to port more apps to the iPad quicker than we are seeing for Honeycomb. The fact that my apps looked "good enough" on HC is why I didn't feel like there was much of a rush to put in the work to "optimize" them. Google made the right call by making Android as resolution/density agnostic as possible, as opposed to iOS's initial assumption of a single screen size and resolution. While iOS developers had to scramble to get iPad optimized versions of their apps out quickly, Android developers are able to take their time and (hopefully) do it right. There will be more HC "optimized" apps, as more tablets are sold, and more developers decide its worth their time to invest in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This all makes a lot of sense.
What doesn't make sense, as a consumer, though... there is no way for us to search for apps that *are* optimized for tablets. Even with "optimized" being hard to define, there needs to be a way for a user to head into the market and search for apps that work nicely on their tablet. It kills me that I have to depend on forums to find apps that fit my screen well.
HA!!!
I just find what I like from my phone and use that.
Or I think of other things to be done with my amazement machine I: study, download, try, and if I like it buy! If your not an informed consumer then you dont belong on android anyways. Sorry if that sounds crass, but if you want someone to tell you what to by then by all means have fun following the heard.
haensgn said:
HA!!!
I just find what I like from my phone and use that.
Or I think of other things to be done with my amazement machine I: study, download, try, and if I like it buy! If your not an informed consumer then you dont belong on android anyways. Sorry if that sounds crass, but if you want someone to tell you what to by then by all means have fun following the heard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*I* am obviously fine, as I'm here and other places researching apps.
But from a general user population point of view, it's extremely consumer unfriendly to not have a way to find "native" (using that term loosely) apps for your new "hot" products.
Also, there is no reason to be rude about it, imo. It's simply an opinion on customer service, which I think Google has a poor track record of, unfortunately.
Honeycomb is absolutely great, some of the tablets released also great (I love my TF).... but the Android Market needs some serious work, imo, especially in terms of the search engine (ironic hah).
I know it's not easy being a developer and not everyone can be a developer but the the tons of apps at the marketplace that have been left abandoned by their responsible developers by not updating them just pisses me off. More than 50% apps at the marketplace don't get updates and they look real bad.
Lets take the official Twitter app for example; I really love this app but suffering with it coz it's too buggy and lacks lots of functions. I have contacted support many times but still no reply. Meanwhile, Twitter app on Android gets updated all the time to bring new features, lots of functions and bug fixes, they even had an update last week and it makes using the app just great, but I'm not an Android fan and I need to fight for my OS to have the best experience.
Facebook app just got updated after so many months of cries from users and I know it's gonna take a looooong time again for us to see another update from them although the app still needs work to be done. I have apps that I've never witnessed updates for since I upgraded from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone and it hurts me a lot and not that these apps are great, the need to be worked on. I mean, how can a developer abandon his/her app?? This developer carrier needs dedication and commitment and not everyone can be one.
We really need to update our apps very often to bring the best user experience and capabilities to all of us in order to enjoy our great OS. What can an OS do without good apps??
What do my fellow forumers think about this issue??
i guess it comes down to the apps you are downloading. I get annoyed with all the updates i receive all the time. I as a developer try to update my apps atleast once a month and introduce new features as i learn how to code them in. But in comes down to the person themself. Sometimes we are busy or other issues arise that delay our ability to update the app. But some devs are just lazy looking for a quick buck in my opinion.
just imagine you are a developer.
you have a job
you have friends
you have family
-> you don't have much free time
then you can look at the effort it took to develope the apps you already released.
in my case, i worked half a year (yet) on a project, that is still in beta
(i've to mention, it's my first project at all, just take it as an approximation)
Would you feel motivated when you know, that updating your application could costs months, and maybe you wont get rewarded at all because you are such an indulgent guy and made it free?
You also have to set priorities, hobby-development has to get in line.
like HackMimic said, there are developers that update all 2 weeks (possibly briefly developed), and those, who need some time to include more well written features.
and don't forget: how should the developers know, that a user misses smth in his app? most people don't rate/review apps, and when they do, you just read smth like:
"not working",
"useless",
"not worth the money"
...
nothing constructive
so it's hard to know what is missing in his own apps sometimes.
you see, there are a quite alot of things devs have to deal with.
Just try to develope on your own, when you feel there's something missing in marketplace. It's pretty easy
greets roqstr
roqstr said:
just imagine you are a developer.
you have a job
you have friends
you have family
-> you don't have much free time
then you can look at the effort it took to develope the apps you already released.
in my case, i worked half a year (yet) on a project, that is still in beta
(i've to mention, it's my first project at all, just take it as an approximation)
Would you feel motivated when you know, that updating your application could costs months, and maybe you wont get rewarded at all because you are such an indulgent guy and made it free?
You also have to set priorities, hobby-development has to get in line.
like HackMimic said, there are developers that update all 2 weeks (possibly briefly developed), and those, who need some time to include more well written features.
and don't forget: how should the developers know, that a user misses smth in his app? most people don't rate/review apps, and when they do, you just read smth like:
"not working",
"useless",
"not worth the money"
...
nothing constructive
so it's hard to know what is missing in his own apps sometimes.
you see, there are a quite alot of things devs have to deal with.
Just try to develope on your own, when you feel there's something missing in marketplace. It's pretty easy
greets roqstr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm...it's not easy. App developing is just similar to my carrier as a research scientist. Hardly get time for anything and you really have to force yourself to do somethings. To tell you the truth, I don't even have a socialization life and that's very bad. All I do is play with my viruses and when I come home play with my windows phone. This life ain't good coz you really need to think about family and friends.....and your girlfriend.
Apps like Twitter get more updates on Android just because there are so many more ppl using Android.
Code as often and as much as you have fun on it. Don't force yourself to do so, results won't be the same.
Keep that in mind
Removed the OP in protest due to the abusive I endured by some XDA members. In spite of reporting them to the moderates of the forums in question and my views were shared with more members than the abusers one of my threads was closed instead.
To those truly care about technology and its surrounding matters, please accept my sincere apologies for this inconvenience. I will no longer be part of the XDA community. Thank you.
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
CSharpHeaven said:
Part 2
Applications & Games
The very exaggerated figure (over 400,000) by Google is only to generate market hypes and to give an impression how popular the Android platform is.
The truth is Google has used hundreds of thousands of hopeful individuals with prospect of success to submit anything to fight back Apple's App Store, only in terms of numbers that is. The chance to success, financially, on Google's Play Store is only very small for established vendors and even smaller for individuals when the competition exceeds by vast numbers. Think of the odds in lottery to come to the same conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Spell checker?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you are not the only XDA member that can read.
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website-server stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump onto my harddrives, mess it all up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever the hell they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this was my first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality from app to app varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems. the underbelly of android with its signing-mechanisms, permission-transparency, packet-installer, subtle notifications, etc., all this works for me and im using my desktop less and less for a reason.
molesarecoming said:
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump into my systems, mess it up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this is the first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality of the apps varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your inputs. I would like to clarify a couple of things, if you don't mind.
I have never made a comment about the Google Play Store's update process that updates the downloaded applications. Since you did, I do agree with you regarding the advantages you rightly addressed. What I might not agree with you is the trust where my credit card details can be added to the profile Google creates for all the citizens.
My point, that you responded to, was about the inability Android OS has to update itself the way, for example, Microsoft Windows or Apple's iOS can. Also the only thing Android can update on any Android handsets is the Google Play Store app. I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T. Believe me, being a software developer I can tolerate high mental pressures but that experience was something else. I don't wish anyone else go through the same experience ever and they shouldn't really.
I've been writing this article with the consideration of the bigger issues. I cannot conclude Android is a good platform based on a small technical convenience when I have vivid visions on what Google is doing with Android and beyond the mobile space.
If my ID suggests I must be a Microsoft's fan then allow me to say to the readers that I have only two Android phones which I use one of them to write my article and this response. Also I use an Android phone as my primary device, using up to three 1930mAh batteries a day. No, I don't watch movies on my phones but listen to music from time to time.
nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
His name leads me to believe Microsoft Fanboi - C# is a Microsoft language very similar to java - but has enough similarities to be it's own language.
edit - you posted at a similar time to me.
I will read this from now on, but probably won't comment. I enjoy hearing what ppl have to say.
i have to use c# daily in my job, its great, my favourite until now. did you know that google once played with the thought to make it androids base language? read it somewhere. must be a myth though.
---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------
CSharpHeaven said:
I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, i am certainly pissed that my older handset, the s2, caught a disease called touchwizz recently instead of the modern operatig system i was hoping for. but falling ill? come on, get another phone, an iphone maybe, or if you still have hopes for android a nexus, and all will be fine. i learned my lesson from this, i'll never, ever buy something that is not directly maintained by google itself. i heard some people really loved touchwiz and samsungs efforts, to each his own. i thing its nice though that you have the choice.