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Participating in a head-to-head against Blackberry & iPhone - seeking their weakness!
Hi Everyone,
This Friday, I am going to be participating in a head-to-head panel discussion with a Blackberry expert and an iPhone expert. It is taking place at a Louisville Microsoft User Group meeting. I will be representing Windows Mobile in this "throwdown".
I have been working to compile information about the Blackberry and the iPhone, namely things that are a weakness when compared to Windows Mobile. I know they will both have a plethora of things to throw at me (how complicated Windows Mobile is to operate, blah blah blah...), so I want to be as prepared as possible to point out their shortcomings.
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Looking for any input anyone might have, so I can add it to my list of talking points! No need to write a novel - you can just bullet items...
Thanks in advance for any armament you can provide!
Matt Coddington
Windows Mobile Louisville
Just a few here. I don't think the iphone can do any of these but modern wm devices can.
* copy & paste text in browser, easily done in opera 9.5, not possible on iphone I believe.
* Opera mobile have built-in download manager, download any file...
* 3G Video calling.
* Send stuff to friends via bluetooth (also recieve of course).
* Taking decent photos with a 3 mp & up built-in autofocus camera, the 2 mp fixed focus camera in the iphone is a joke.
* Record video at 30 fps.
* Browse mapped folders on your network with advanced filemanagers like Resco Explorer & etc.
* Draw nice artwork with advanced photo editing softwares like Pocket Artist.
* If you don't like the built in SIP, install another one. (Though I must admit the one in the iphone is really nice as it is.)
* Completely change the way your phone works and looks by customizing everything.
* Edit the registry to change file associations, like clicking on a Divx video automatically opens in Coreplayer for an example.
Sorry I'm to tired to go on with this list I think I would have to stay up all night if I should finish it.
user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.
josefcrist said:
user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.
deedee said:
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
windows mobile has been around forever and has more apps. windows mobile is more open.
Agree completely, i was just lobbing up some of the arguments the BB guy may come up with , forewarned is forearmed so to speak. i may be a BB Admin but i am a commited WM user myself.
I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
So, if we go down the road of tweaking devices like most geeks would do (and not the general public), I think that WM wins out for reasons already mentioned - it's been around a long time, and great sites like XDA-Developers create a resource that allows you to tweak your WM device to your heart's content!
Matt
Windows Mobile Louisville
MultiMatt said:
I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well to be brutally honest the only real arguments that you have are 1 and 4 of the owziee's post.
the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
One More thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.
fyi
After you jailbreak an iphone you can have copy and paste in the browser after you install the c&p program.
FLowness of the interface
Can some one comment on the flowness of the interface between iphone and HTC HD
I have used WM and iphone but the flowness of the interface of WM comes no where near that of iphone. Also relatively iphone is much more faster, even with many app installed ( including jail broken ones) .
Forgetting all other features how does both these platforms compare in this feature
I love my QWERTY keyboards, BB has it, but iPhone doesn't.
fallenczar said:
your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Also, a WM ROM upgrade is not needed to run certain software (unless you're trying to install a WM6 only program on WM5), or to get certain functions - you can install most software and/or functions with simple cab files or installers on the stock ROMs without problems at all.
MultiMatt said:
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Just tell the folks "as soon as Windows Mobile manufacturers start producing devices with capacitive screens, the advantage of browsing the Web on the iPhone (assuming running the latest Opera Mobile on Windows Mobile) will be no more"
fallenczar said:
Well to be brutally honest...
...the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are absolutely correct, and I anticipate that. Given that the iPhone is an iPod with a phone attached, I would have to have a Zune with a phone attached to even come close on the multimedia aspects. I'm prepared to acknowledge that iPhone has an advantage there...
fallenczar said:
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device...
...One more thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so jailbreaking might not be that hard, but let's consider the audience here. Let's go with the common denominator, the average Joe (Joe the Plummer! Ha! Ha!). Regardless of how easy techy people might think it is, the average person has no interest in screwing with their warranty and doing such a thing to their several hundred dollar phone. I know several people here at work who have iPhones and 1.) they have no idea what jailbreaking is, and 2.) once I told them what it would do, they expressed no interest in doing such a thing. Similar to the multitudes of Windows Phone users that I know - the majority of them are not interested in changing out their ROM unless it comes from the carrier.
My point being, I will argue that we need to keep custom ROMS and Jailbreaking out of it, and discuss what can be done without those in the discussion! How does that change the playing field?!
bemymonkey said:
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.
The biggest advantage of WM is the sheer number of devices it comes on. You can buy a phone that fits your needs rather than compromising. Want a keyboard? no problem. Want a HUGE screen? no problem. Want a tiny screen on a tiny device? no problem! Whatever you could wan't has probably already been made.
Just don't mention that for the new versions of WM, Microsoft is trying to do away with that.
The iphone isn't better for multimedia.... Only when running games and certain apps on the device itself, otherwise it sucks in comparision when it comes to the hardware.
Cameras, Photos, Video recording quality + video calls etc + wm devices more often have better quality displays (higher resolution) & bigger when it comes to the Touch HD. Ok, iphone have multitouch but personally I don't care about it...
Menneisyys said:
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But as far as I know, you can't choose _not_ to upgrade, can you?
On WM you can just keep your old ROM as long as you're satisfied with it...
I think the iPhone's app store is both a strength and a weakness in its case.
Filtering apps and games for quality is a great way to make sure the phone "just works" for all users. If this is all that Apple did, the only argument against it would be arbitrary. However, Apple is also denying apps they deem "too similar" to Apple apps and those they feel are in bad taste. So if someone (say Opera) makes a better browser, too bad you have Safari for that. And if you want a fart-noise generator, it depends on if it is found to be "offensive" by some anonymous panel.
Also, comparing a jail-broken iphone to a stock (under warranty) windows phone is apples to oranges imo.
more iphone info for you guys
You can choose not to update the firmware on the iphone. You can turn the feature off in itunes that trys to update and if it asks you can simply hit no. And to my knowledge you can put on older firmwares (like 2.0 instead of 2.1) after you updated if you like a previous version.
This is a serious question although I appreciate it could be taken as a troll.
Should Microsoft start again with their mobile OS? I know why they have kept compatability with older software but I personally think this is hurting them more than throwing away backwards compatability.
Look at the iPhone - that started from scratch and has grown to prominence without any back catalog of software.
Cheers, Rob.
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Exchange Server
Hi all
I use an exchange server provider and I find it's features really useful, not just on my mobile, but in MS Outlook 2007, in fact much more so on the PC. Because there are few equivalent services that I can get for the same price that would be compatible with both PC software and a mobile device, I am essentially tied to Microsoft products for the time being. MS have done very well at preventing 3rd party PIM clients accessing the full services of an exchange server.
Google are in the process of offering a full exchange service via Google Sync. If they are successful in this (which they clearly will be) then they are really only one step away from offering their own exchange type server which will be natively compatible with?? Android of course.
I would consider switching from WM to another OS if:
1. That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
OR
2. There were comparable alternatives to a remote MS Exchange server system which could be accessed from the device.
In fact, Windows Mobile 6.5 can't access all the features of an Exchange server (e.g. being able to set specific Follow up reminder dates & times for emails and viewing other users calendars, etc.). So actually, an alternative system doesn't need to beat MS Outlook, it just needs to beat the feature limited WM 6.5 Pocket Outlook.
Sorry for the ramble but I can't see many large companies switching to Android if their employees can't accept a meeting request OTA!
In answer to the original question, yes, MS REALLY should start again with Windows Mobile and this time make sure users are able to access all the features of an MS exchange server OTA.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
From what I've read on the developers Blogs the WM7 framework is entirely different to 6x.. so most of them are concentrating on this.. appararently the performance is at least doubled (this wasn't an MS fanboy). I do assume though that MS will do all they can to be backwards compatible .. the howl that happened on Palm will be nothing as to the reaction should MS completely leave their userbase high & dry. Yes Apple scored well by timing their entry into the market perfectly.. but they risk being trapped in exactly the same way by advances in technology.
I don't think it's game over in any direction just yet.. MS simply dosn't give up and there is absolutely nothing similar in the way Palm ran itself into the ground.. Obviuosly the media is a huge cheerleasder for both Google & Apple - for some reason believing these guys are in some way cool, uncommerical, funloving dudes who are only interested in the love..
look guys, some years passed by, and ONLY thing m$ wants to say to us is:
let's make smartphones, AGAIN.
pda's as mobile comps are DEAD.
f your 6.5 and rich kids.
f android and their feeble ****oozas.
xoen / nothin
Sleuth255 said:
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg, sleuth is going over to the dark side
btw, which droid model are you looking at?
Personally, i love WM
I agree with Andrew-in-woking. I love the ability to sync my contacts, notes, calender, music, photos, videos, and documents both ways with my computer and my phone. And, the thing I've been telling everyone is that devices supported by a company will work best with other devices supported by the same company. I've been using windows on all of my computers since I can remember, and I will only have the best phone experience if I get a windows powered phone, which would provide the best connectivity with my computer. It doesn't make sense to get an Iphone, unless you have an apple computer, in my eyes. Same with every other device. Get android if you have other devices powered by google os. Same with Samsung, sony, etc. If you start connecting devices across different companies, it will only lead to more problems, reducing the quality of your experience with that device. Those are my 2 cents.
funny how everybody is complain about windows mobile compares to iphone.
y havnt nobody complaining about crackberry to iphone?
not everybody buy a windows mobile phone and use it as a toy (iphone)
i love my Acer neotouch S200 with 1G cpu with custom 6.5 rom 23506, i'm not sure if i still want an android phone. oh, the only reason i want android phone is because of google gps navigator.
I like windows mobile the way it is, when it become's like an iphone, there is no point in using it anymore.
I'm not saying anything can't be improved, just that if it interface's like an iphone, you might as well buy an iphone which is what I suspect most people are talking about when comparing them.
Say goodbye to the usefulness of your high resolution screen's while using a child and finger friendly interface....massive icon's, text, menu's, spend half your time zooming in and out...panning etc.
andrew-in-woking said:
That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
I'm using Microsoft OS for about 15-20 years. First DOS, later Windows, and in the meanwhile also WM.
I don't need to sync anything between PC and phone but I want a "full" OS, you can customize whatever you want, and I love my Win32 API. On the IPhone and Android you don't even have a file explorer without downloading an extra app right? Yes I know "you can get an App for everything." And sure IPhone is comfortable and user friendly. But it's like that because it's a consumer device and being that it's probably better than WM. But actually WM is not only a toy (for people who don't feel comfortable with the more tech stuff) - it's an OS.
I don't really understand all the bad talking about WM recently. I agree using the GUI without a stylus is a pain in the ass but as I can see more and more parts of the OS are being updated with each new 6.5 build. And what's the deal about it.... it's only the f.... GUI!!!
Microsoft won't restart at all. Their OS will go and and on just like their desktop versions did. Remember all the talking back then. OS/2 kills Windows, MAC kills Windows.... IMO nothing of that happened at all.
MS over?
Don't believe the hype Sleuth.
HTC on windows rules.
Good to see you here.
Really appreciated your uc work on my HD.
New rom from Miri, uc'ed all my settings & apps.
Hours of fun.
100,000 apps for the iPhone in it's short life. 18,000 in all of WinMo's existence. 50K on Android already. M$ had a major chance when it buried Palm but it took the iPhone to bring real innovation back. Geezuz.
WinMo market share was cut in half in the last year. M$ is no longer considered a contender in the space dominated by iPhone, RIM, Nokia and now Android.
I too like the common api. But I've seen iPhone apps that blow my socks off. Hopefully, HTC will release a killer platform for android. I need capacitive, rez and battery life.
Moto Droid is the leader here now but it can't touch HTC keyboards. Lots of room for HTC to catch up. But android 2.0 on that very same droid can turn off bt and fire up your wifi profile when you walk into the door based on its continuously updated positional awareness. Weather works the same way, using wunderground school installations from a known database to give you local weather down to the exact temp where you are standing. You can use the camera to scan a bar code in a supermarket and it'll leverage Google's claim to fame and return info/best pricing on the web for the same item.
Meanwhile, m$ can't even make a decent marketplace. They are hobbled by feature drift and don't have a security clue (see chainfire's 2hr hack just to prove the point).
I wish it were otherwise but I've seen this all before...
Phonebook
munrobasher said:
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rob
You make a good point for mail and tasks but it's not quite the same as dialing directly from your cnmtacts.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
Is this actually an issue of the OS itself? It's just market strategies and modern GUI experiences. With a good kernel (like we have with WM) it's no problem to add such features on top of it (if you just actually do it), but if you have limited kernel functionality but with the "good" GUI things on top it's harder to change the OS underneath it. I have no clue about Android yet but on the IPhone you can't even run background processes. Is Android just as flexible as the Windows kernel architecture? From what I heard I assume it's not, otherwise please proove me wrong.
The problem as you can tell it is more like Microsoft didn't care a lot about WM during the last couple years and especially HTC did what MS didn't, and now they need their time to catch up on their competitors again. But of course I'm also hoping they're doing fine with WM 7. I like the road they are going with 6.5 and if WM 7 is just like the new killer OS we're all waiting for (Windows 7 desktop isn't too bad neither right?) then why do you need your Apple and Google anymore???
FTTB, I'll probably get a Tilt 2 for hardware reasons. The iPhone is too restrictive for my tweaking tastes (although being a part of the jailbreak community would be fun) and no killer hardware for Android exists yet.
m$ needs a wake-up call. The mobile world is passing it by. This time next year (when I need another new gizmo) will be interesting. My predictions go with Android because Google has the information. Gathering it is what they do. Heck, the current navigation app on Android leverages the Google maps data for for actual image based turn by turn instruction. Impressive and always up to date.
Hi I want to buy one of this two devices, but I can't decide which one. I am looking at this dilema from two perspectives. A user perspective and a developer perspective.
1. User perspective:
I will use the phone for every functionallity there is. I will install a lot of apps, customize everything. Play movies, play games, use GPS navigation, take pictures, even read some documents. Every aspect of the phone is important to me.
HTC HD2:
pros:
* 4,3 screen
* windows mobile is mature system with lot of good, mature apps
* good divx/xvid players
* great GPS navigation apps
* great emulators including DOSBOX!
* psx emulator
* great customization
cons:
* system is old and rusty in some places
* not finger friendly in many cases
* developers will slowly abandon this platform
* marketplace sucks, you have to find everything yourself
* not a lot of touch friendly games?
HTC Desire:
pros:
* AMOLED screen
* great momentum with apss, lot of new developers
* good marketplace, lot of apps free
* modern system
* everything is finger friendly
* widgets are great
* faster then HD2 WinMo
cons:
* lack of decent free xvid/divx player
* lack of dosbox and psx emulator (some emulators are ok though)
* although there are some ok GPS navigation apps not as good as WinMo
* less freedom than WinMo
Winner? Desire as soon as it gets dosbox, divx player and maybe some other apps it will be a better phone for me, but we don't know when it will happen, right now it's about a tie, but android has better perspectives.
2. Developer perspective:
Right I am windows .net developer for few years now. I want to develop some apps on mobile phones. Firstly this will be free apps, but after some time I'm thinking about starting to develop paid apps if its working good.
HTC HD2:
system:
* WinMo
pros:
* .net and Visual Studio
* freedom
* great support from xda-developers
cons:
* still no SDK for WinMo 6.5
* no good marketplace to give/sell my apps
* a lot of API is device specific
* WinApi
* will be outdated by WinPhone 7 - wich on the other hand will have very good API support.
HTC Desire:
system:
* Android 2.1/2.2
* future upgrades?
pros:
* good system API, almost everything you would need to develop apps
* open source
* monodroid? Mono for android
* great and vast marketplace where I can instantly put my apps
* some xda-developers support (probably even better in the future)
* widgets
cons:
* java and eclipse -but still better than WinApi
* not so much freedom for apps, they run in isolated environments and there are some security bounds
Summarizing WinMo has better developer-community support (for now, it will probably change soon) and better tools. But Android has a lot better API, will probably soon (Q3) have monodroid, and has a good marketplace. Thats about a tie, but here android has better perspectives.
All-in-all I just really can't decide which phone to take (both of them are about 150$ from my operator with 2 year agreement - Play in Poland). What would you suggest?
TAke the desire. Likeyou said at a developer point of view the phone is on it's last legs and then you'd have to rebuild the apps for windows mobile 7. Android sure you would have to update it with each OS but its still a growing platform. From a user perspective I can see android winning out because first the OS is finger friendly. I also can seethe all store being much more well used vs the windows marketplace. Honestly in the nd it comes down to.your personal choice. O play with both and see which you like more
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User sugestion
As a User I would take Leo
As Dev I would choose Leo
You mentioned all why´s on your 1st post
All will come to decide if you want to go to new unfinished Android or stay in WM.
Let us know what you finally got
I would lean toward the Desire for many reasons stated all over this forum. But as orb said, we can't decide for you...
for God's sake, go with the Desire.
I got an HD2 at launch and traded it for a Nexus and love it.
WinMo is slowly dying and Android is just getting better and better.
I went for Desire. Found a good offline GPS navigation and converting to mp4 is a little pain in the ass but not that bad. Hope coreplayer android will come here soon.
Android SDK > WM6SDK
Confused...
Hi there guys..
I'm planning to buy either one of these PDA's and I'm quite in dilemma in here. I don't have much experience on neither Windows Mobile nor Android.
I'm a senior university student in here (Turkey) on Computer and Educational Technologies. I'm an amateur computer programmer and planning to go on on this major. I'm also planning to go ahead in the area of mobile software development. This is why I'm quite confused which PDA to buy... I'll both learn to develop for this PDA and will also use it as my portable device.
As a portable device, since I'm a student, I'm quite in need of a PDA which can read and edit Office Documents, play MP3 and/or other media formats, display e-books (pdf, etc.), send-recieve e-mail's efficiently (actually push-mail can be quite of use here) and have Wireless access. I'm not planning to heavily use 3G or EDGE, but since campus has free wireless access, I'll be using Wireless internet a lot. Also, since a few my courses are requiring online-participation, web browsing quality is also important (flash support etc.). I'm also planning to use PDA to remote-access my pc (right now using PcAnywhere but not necessarily this one).
On the other hand, I'm quite a computer geek and I love technological stuff; so I'm sure I'm going to make this phone inside out . I like tweaking, playing with the insides of devices etc.
As a developer, I use C++ and C#.NET. I don't know Java and I'm not quite comfortable with it - I don't like languages which require intermadiate virtual machines or stuff (it's why I don't like to use C# much either). For all this years I've developed for Windows and quite happy with it - Linux systems are always been too confusing for me.
When I add these things up, I think of HD2; but Android platform also looks quite promising (the SDK is said to be better, I don't know based on what discussion). The other thing is, WM6.5 which is quite old now - don't care much about grey old-fashined buttons but - and it seems won't be supported in future. I use Windows at home, quite happy with it and it's why I'm tended to pick a WinMo device however this "dead end" future is really creeping me out.
I've though that since Android Rom's are developing continuously for HD2, it's better for me to pick that and if I feel WinMo is not well for me, I can switch to Android but this option doesn't make me feel confortable - why should I bother myself with such workarounds to use Android when I could buy an Android device directly?
Shortly, in the light of these specifications I made about myself, should I aim towards Android and pick Desire, or should I get a HD2 and switch to Android from there if and only if I need to? Or, with different words: Can an Android device (Desire, actually) give me ALL possibilities of a Windows Mobile platform (which is HD2) and also something more?
(FYI, screen size of HD2 seems quite attractive for me, since I'm also going to use PDA for remote-access to my pc but I don't know if Android is also rich about these areas.)
PS: I cannot wait for Desire HD - since it will be quite expensive when it comes out in here - and also I need a PDA quite much already. Actually, another point which makes the HD2 interesting is the news which pop up about "The Desire HD rom in HD2".
Please, can you help me to pick?
theGanymedes said:
Hi there guys..
I'm planning to buy either one of these PDA's and I'm quite in dilemma in here. I don't have much experience on neither Windows Mobile nor Android.
I'm a senior university student in here (Turkey) on Computer and Educational Technologies. I'm an amateur computer programmer and planning to go on on this major. I'm also planning to go ahead in the area of mobile software development. This is why I'm quite confused which PDA to buy... I'll both learn to develop for this PDA and will also use it as my portable device.
As a portable device, since I'm a student, I'm quite in need of a PDA which can read and edit Office Documents, play MP3 and/or other media formats, display e-books (pdf, etc.), send-recieve e-mail's efficiently (actually push-mail can be quite of use here) and have Wireless access. I'm not planning to heavily use 3G or EDGE, but since campus has free wireless access, I'll be using Wireless internet a lot. Also, since a few my courses are requiring online-participation, web browsing quality is also important (flash support etc.). I'm also planning to use PDA to remote-access my pc (right now using PcAnywhere but not necessarily this one).
On the other hand, I'm quite a computer geek and I love technological stuff; so I'm sure I'm going to make this phone inside out . I like tweaking, playing with the insides of devices etc.
As a developer, I use C++ and C#.NET. I don't know Java and I'm not quite comfortable with it - I don't like languages which require intermadiate virtual machines or stuff (it's why I don't like to use C# much either). For all this years I've developed for Windows and quite happy with it - Linux systems are always been too confusing for me.
When I add these things up, I think of HD2; but Android platform also looks quite promising (the SDK is said to be better, I don't know based on what discussion). The other thing is, WM6.5 which is quite old now - don't care much about grey old-fashined buttons but - and it seems won't be supported in future. I use Windows at home, quite happy with it and it's why I'm tended to pick a WinMo device however this "dead end" future is really creeping me out.
I've though that since Android Rom's are developing continuously for HD2, it's better for me to pick that and if I feel WinMo is not well for me, I can switch to Android but this option doesn't make me feel confortable - why should I bother myself with such workarounds to use Android when I could buy an Android device directly?
Shortly, in the light of these specifications I made about myself, should I aim towards Android and pick Desire, or should I get a HD2 and switch to Android from there if and only if I need to? Or, with different words: Can an Android device (Desire, actually) give me ALL possibilities of a Windows Mobile platform (which is HD2) and also something more?
(FYI, screen size of HD2 seems quite attractive for me, since I'm also going to use PDA for remote-access to my pc but I don't know if Android is also rich about these areas.)
PS: I cannot wait for Desire HD - since it will be quite expensive when it comes out in here - and also I need a PDA quite much already. Actually, another point which makes the HD2 interesting is the news which pop up about "The Desire HD rom in HD2".
Please, can you help me to pick?
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I am an out-and-out android person, but I know both C# and Java, and you can easily pick up one from the other, from my experience. Syntax is very similar, and the documentation will help you.
Eclipse is the recommended IDE, and you can use the android emulator to play about with coding etc (it's not fast, but it works). That should let you try out android from a development perspective.
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
This might have been the wrong place to ask that question, but have you seen how simple the OS for the iPhone is? If you compare it with WM, it's just a start menu with tweaks. If you did that to WM, it'd fly as well too because it has no reason to use up it's power or memory in keeping a very nice interface smooth.
Good evening, don't forget that Windows Mobile (WinCE) is way older than Iphone... Microsoft WinCE was created in 1996 beetwin that time and now, things have change 3g, smartphone, colour-screen, wifi,... Windows Mobile is not ready it's like a wall with 15 layer of wallpaper. While Iphone is new it's developed with all this technologies built-in like a wall with only one wallpaper and the best one.
Between Cassipeia A20 and latest HTC... it's been a long way.
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what windows mobile can do that iphone cannot..
1st windows can unzip RAR,zip...etc.. alot kind of format when company send u a email that have attachment in ZIP that iphone unable to read the file. but windows mobile can!
2nd playing play with fews friend on wifi local game network on laptop connecting windows mobile.but iphone cannot!
3rd windows mobile can play FLASH format. but iphone cannot!
4th windows mobile able to support more video/audio codec. but iphone cannot!
5th windows mobile can download bittorrent!. but iphone cannot
6th windows mobile can change battery when ur battery is low. but iphone cannot!
7th windows mobile more app.
8th windows mobile can sync any song/video and other without installing itunes.but iphone must install itunes to add video or song
9th windows mobile can share song/video/photo other file but iphone cannot!
sorry too many to add.. lazy
Moved to general, as not D&H.
WARNING: I WANT NO FLAMING ON THIS THREAD, ONLY DISCUSSION AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION. ANY FLAMING THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBERS.
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GPU is faster; generally PowerVR versus Adrena 200 (AMD Z430). Has nothing to do with the OS. In my opinion, the Apple OS approach is way too restrictive.
One thing WiMo can not do that the iPhone can is WPA2-Enterprise authentication without a certificate. But that's about it. At the end of the day, I don't miss my iPhone, very happy with my HTC HD2.
Well.. if you are comparing iOS with WiMo.. you might aswell add Android.
Well, personally I prefer both Android and WinMo over iOS.
why?
basically, because you can do more with both android and WinMo without rooting/jailbreaking the device. Than you could with an non-jailbroken iPhone.
with Android and Winmo:
- You can use your phone as a wi-fi hotspot
- Download different movie/media players
- Brows your files on your device and/or computer
- etc
However..
You can't add icons onto your desktop in WinMo. Neither can you add folders on your own(It is possible that i've been missing something here ofc).
Both the Android and iOS platform has devices that does support games with smooth graphics(as you call it).
And I find that the App store and Android Market is better than the WinMo market.
But that might just be me.
Both Android and WinMo got devices with harware keyboard. Witch is something the iOS does not have. I did not like to use my iPhone with wet fingers, same goes for most touch screens that i've used. However, that is not that big of an issue with a hardware keyboard.
You can also have widgets in android(You can also do this in WinMo if you download the right app for it. But I can't remember the name) I.e you can place a weather forecast on your desktop/lockscreen. On iOS however, you will have to click the apps icon, wait for the loading and then refresh to see the weather.
Same goes for the calendar.. In android I can see my appointments straight on the home screen.. However on the iOS I have to enter the Calendar app.
All in all, here is the way I would put my prefferences.
1. Android(A quite open platform. With the posibillity of adding widgets etc.)
2. WinMo 6.5+
3. iOS(I would really like to see some widgets.. atleast in the lock screen..)
I agree with ukon .
winmo is older, hence not as graphicly 'complete' if you'd like.
But it does not preform any slower than the iphone os doing the same tasks...
Winmo lets you to do anything you like, within reason... Everything mentioned above by another poster. Its not a restricted OS. Unlike the iphone os.
Android is in my opinion a lovely mix of the two.
flawless GUI, and its not restrictive.
I want a phone where I have total control: WM & Android.
NOT a phone that totally controls me: iOS
Nuff said.
phatmanxxl said:
I want a phone where I have total control: WM & Android.
NOT a phone that totally controls me: iOS
Nuff said.
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Click to collapse
Well said!
ov2rey said:
what windows mobile can do that iphone cannot..
7th windows mobile more app.
sorry too many to add.. lazy
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Click to collapse
Where are they hiding all those apps?
pkoper said:
Where are they hiding all those apps?
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On this little ol' think called t'interweb
Try Handango, MS Marketplace, XDA, google.
See, unlike Apple, MS don't dictate who can create and sell apps for their OS, and WM has a huge headstart on Apple.
It's not better, it just has a better marketing
jge93 said:
It's not better, it just has a better marketing
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Exactly.
In addition to all of the above, Steve Jobs has figured out that most people don't need complicated stuff, it's the "stupid simple and shiny interface" ratio to. "advanced fuctions". I really don't know if that's really good or bad and I guess to each his own. Sad tho that these different capabilities haven't so far put together. Maybe Android will accomplish that one day.
Oh, and the way iPhone has implemented video call is utterly rediculous. Or have they changed that restriction policy later or did someone hack it open?
hugomenezes said:
Any one can explain why Iphone can run graphics more smooth than WM?
I have HTC Touch HD and i test a lot of cooked roms and an official roms but it still slowly.
The hardware of Iphone is better than my HTC HD?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to ignore the other posts in this topic. It seems too many are clouded by iOS hatred (I mean, "WinMo has more apps than iOS"? Really?).
As far as I know, there are a lot of factors that goes into why WinMo is not as 'smooth'/efficient as iOS. Among these factors are lack of proper GPU drivers (due to Qualcomm's licensing issues), lack of proper optimization due to multiple phone spec setup (iPhone hardware tends to be static and fully supported by Apple itself), and, perhaps most notably, Windows Mobile is a very old OS. It doesn't support a lot of modern tech in ARM CPUs.
The last reason is probably why Microsoft is finally deciding to drop Windows Mobile and develop Windows Phone.
But to get to the point, Apple doesn't have any of the issues above. iOS is modern, available on static hardware configurations, and, of course, Apple's micromanagement of its OS/app market is probably doing a lot to keep things efficient. Of course, this approach has its drawbacks too (as people here would probably love to tell), but the advantage is also obvious for the world to see.
answer the question topics. I think it smoother graphics on the iphone because the resolution is only 320x240 qvga while your touch hd is WVGA 480x800.
and it is certainly lighter os on iphone because it only displays a static icon in the menu. if you like static icons ,turn off htc sense and use titanium. or use shell menu such as spb. it'll fly
and for graphics in applications such as games. buy games from EA and Gameloft and i guarantee they run smoother than the iphone. for example Ferrari GT from gameloft. play using accelerometer on for both, you'll see which phone steer car easily
madnish30 said:
WARNING: I WANT NO FLAMING ON THIS THREAD, ONLY DISCUSSION AND HEALTHY DISCUSSION. ANY FLAMING THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBERS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another quick reminder.
Such thread are usually shut, but i'm leting this be because so far it seems clean and productive, please don't turn it ugly.
Thanks
madnish30.
In my attempt to get the most out of my WM powered device (HD2) i could not help realizing that windows mobile is not among the targets of big software names like Yahoo, Skype, Fring, Google and what's more intereseting not even by Microsoft...
Take for exemple Google... it has it's Android... and the thing that it is best at is integrating anything google related into android phones: mail, calendar, contacts, photos, maps... you name it.... and they do this out of the box... and with the best user experience keeping the looks of the web based counterparts...
Yahoo and Skype... they both have IM clients for Android, Iphone, Symbian, Blackberry... but NOT windows mobile... WHY?...
Fring is perfect with anything but WM
Iphone and Android are so new on the market yet everybody supports it asap.
As for Microsoft you would've expected at least to integrate their own apps into windows phones... but they don't... They have the live app wich integrates messenger, contacts and mail... but not in the best way... I would've liked to see something to directly make a space entry from your phone's interface, to directly publish a photo or to send a file to skydrive... to have calendar synced at its full web potential... i know you have the exchange emulation like google but what about alternate calendars...
Bing is another thing... we have to install it your self instead of beeing fully integrated into your windows phone....
So the question is how come WM lost terrain being that it is the oldest on the market and has such a computing power in support of it (I guess we all agree that MS is a giant)?....
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
xaccers said:
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
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Click to collapse
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
Microsoft has failed to deliver anything "new" to the mobile space, and watched Google and Apple completely dominate the smartphone market. And Windows Phone 7? Another doomed failure from Redmond. It took them 4 years to copy Apple. Even RIM has better developer support than Microsoft...
Speaking of RIM, I think it's safe to say that Windows Mobile as a business platform has been a failure since the monochrome Blackberry days. RIM has been dominating there for quite a while.
So where is it that Windows Mobile fits in? Another me-too iPhone wanna be, or maybe the #2 or #3 business-oriented smart-phone OS? Meh...
xaccers said:
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
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Click to collapse
I don't! but it was a clear example of not integrating even their own software out of the box...
as for the rest... one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
ccezar2004 said:
one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the funny part:
Microsoft tried to BRIBE iPhone developers to port their apps for Windows Mobile. The result? Most said "go screw, your platform sucks."
That pretty much sums it up... They can't even get people working on Windows Mobile by paying them. .NET is a decent foundation, but development for a mobile device requires the right tools for the job. Plus, being 4 years behind the curve, it's going to be hard for M$ to get critical mass at this point.
The shocking thing is, they already have a successful product with a healthy developer community: The X-Box. Why they didn't look to that team for inspiration is beyond me...
Honestly, they should just give up. Most former WM people I know switched to Android long ago. I don't see any reviewers or users tripping over themselves to get the next Microsoft phone like they do for the next iPhone, Blackberry, Android, etc. Same goes for Zune and numerous other Microsoft train wrecks.
Windows Phone 7 will turn out to be just as lackluster as 6.5 - which is a good thing, because Android could use a few more users
HamNCheese said:
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
xaccers said:
I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
HamNCheese said:
So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say android didn't "wow" users, I said it won't have the "coolness" of an iPhone. iPhone is more a fashion item than a smartphone for most people, Apple have spent an absolute fortune building that "cool" image of their products. We know they suck, and android/WM is more customisable/better features/functions, but the great unwashed don't care about that, they just want to be able to show they're "cool" (lame) because they have an iPhone. Someone's already posted elsewhere that his aunt assumed his phone wasn't very good because it wasn't an iPhone.
Android, being an OS and in a similar way to WM, isn't the phone. The combination of the OS and the hardware makes a great phone, such as WM6.5 and the HD2, or the android equivalent. Put the OS on a crappy phone and it's not going to wow anyone. Android have been successful because they have the apps/games that non-sheep want, and its available on cheap phones. I hope they continue to eat away at Apple's share of the market, and continue to improve rather than end up taking a backwards step and following Apple/WP7. Of course, history is littered with the remains of better products which just haven't sold enough (betamax, hydropnumatic suspension, HD-DVD, Amy Studt albums).
RIM are only beating WM through their business model. Once a company has started using BES it's pretty much trapped, it doesn't make financial sense to change, they've paid for the hardware and the licences so they might as well keep using them even if there's a more reliable, functional and cheaper alternative.
In companies, in the UK at least, most people responsible for IT expenditure turn to external companies for advice or decide because they've read something in a magazine that their competitor is using.
External IT companies will have their own preferences for what they suggest; profitability, previous experience, acceptability to business.
Take one of the companies I support who've had years of trouble with blackberrys, they've recently changed network because they were fed up with the handset problems. They've got 40 handsets, that's a lot of money invested in something which often doesn't work. They're still having problems, ironically with the senior managers' handsets which isn't going down well. The users with their own WM handsets set up to sync with the exchange server have never had a problem. Until I arrived on the scene they had no idea there were alternatives.
MS have not pushed the abilities of WM, that's been their biggest failing. They've never acted like they take their handheld OSs seriously. Instead they concentrated on the more lucrative desktop and server business.
At the moment all my bile is being saved for Ray Ozzie (especially after finding out he's the asshat behind Lotus Notes) so I can't spare any for Roz (besides, she's kinda cute).
W7 seems to wow no one of any worth. It looks like it was designed by a new parent after buying their kid duplo bricks
I suppose it could be argued that some of us a "wowed" as to how bad it is.
This thread is degenerating into something else... Therefore I'm closing it.
Message to the OP... Chiar trebuie sa intrebi de ce ? Nu e clar ca Iphone si Android domnia marketu' deacum ? Noi, aici la xda, ne tinem cu dintzii de o epava care se scufunda, dar.. asta e...