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Participating in a head-to-head against Blackberry & iPhone - seeking their weakness!

Participating in a head-to-head against Blackberry & iPhone - seeking their weakness!
Hi Everyone,
This Friday, I am going to be participating in a head-to-head panel discussion with a Blackberry expert and an iPhone expert. It is taking place at a Louisville Microsoft User Group meeting. I will be representing Windows Mobile in this "throwdown".
I have been working to compile information about the Blackberry and the iPhone, namely things that are a weakness when compared to Windows Mobile. I know they will both have a plethora of things to throw at me (how complicated Windows Mobile is to operate, blah blah blah...), so I want to be as prepared as possible to point out their shortcomings.
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Looking for any input anyone might have, so I can add it to my list of talking points! No need to write a novel - you can just bullet items...
Thanks in advance for any armament you can provide!
Matt Coddington
Windows Mobile Louisville

Just a few here. I don't think the iphone can do any of these but modern wm devices can.
* copy & paste text in browser, easily done in opera 9.5, not possible on iphone I believe.
* Opera mobile have built-in download manager, download any file...
* 3G Video calling.
* Send stuff to friends via bluetooth (also recieve of course).
* Taking decent photos with a 3 mp & up built-in autofocus camera, the 2 mp fixed focus camera in the iphone is a joke.
* Record video at 30 fps.
* Browse mapped folders on your network with advanced filemanagers like Resco Explorer & etc.
* Draw nice artwork with advanced photo editing softwares like Pocket Artist.
* If you don't like the built in SIP, install another one. (Though I must admit the one in the iphone is really nice as it is.)
* Completely change the way your phone works and looks by customizing everything.
* Edit the registry to change file associations, like clicking on a Divx video automatically opens in Coreplayer for an example.
Sorry I'm to tired to go on with this list I think I would have to stay up all night if I should finish it.

user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.

josefcrist said:
user replaceable battery.
you have the choice between quite a few devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.

deedee said:
Unfortunately the BB does both of those. I will be very surprised if the BB guy doesn't sing the security aspects of the device, and as a BB Admin they are damn good. That said I have added some apps to my Trinity to give me some of that security back.
The BBs strengths is its weakness, it was designed as a secure platform for email first and everything has been added afterwards, WM had the basics in from the beginning and they have all been tweaked as a whole.
Sorry to not sound more positive about WM even though i have one myself which i wouldn't change for a BB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
windows mobile has been around forever and has more apps. windows mobile is more open.

Agree completely, i was just lobbing up some of the arguments the BB guy may come up with , forewarned is forearmed so to speak. i may be a BB Admin but i am a commited WM user myself.

I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
So, if we go down the road of tweaking devices like most geeks would do (and not the general public), I think that WM wins out for reasons already mentioned - it's been around a long time, and great sites like XDA-Developers create a resource that allows you to tweak your WM device to your heart's content!
Matt
Windows Mobile Louisville

MultiMatt said:
I appreciate everyone's input thus far! It will be an interesting discussion Friday, that's for sure! I fully expect for it to be civil, yet it will be good for me to have qualitative info on the competition.
It will be interesting to see what direction the conversation will go. Certain things are not possible on the iPhone without jailbreaking it, so if the iPhone guy tries to go there, he will be negating the argument that the iPhone just works! The average user is not going to risk jailbreaking their device (or even want to try regardless of risk because they have no clue!).
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Click to collapse
Well to be brutally honest the only real arguments that you have are 1 and 4 of the owziee's post.
the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
One More thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.

fyi
After you jailbreak an iphone you can have copy and paste in the browser after you install the c&p program.

FLowness of the interface
Can some one comment on the flowness of the interface between iphone and HTC HD
I have used WM and iphone but the flowness of the interface of WM comes no where near that of iphone. Also relatively iphone is much more faster, even with many app installed ( including jail broken ones) .
Forgetting all other features how does both these platforms compare in this feature

I love my QWERTY keyboards, BB has it, but iPhone doesn't.

fallenczar said:
your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device.
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Click to collapse
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
Also, a WM ROM upgrade is not needed to run certain software (unless you're trying to install a WM6 only program on WM5), or to get certain functions - you can install most software and/or functions with simple cab files or installers on the stock ROMs without problems at all.

MultiMatt said:
I read the really nice writeup from Menneisyys on the browser comparison, so I know the iPhone guy is going to be highlighting the Safari browser superiority. That article reminded me of some good talking points about what some of the WM browsers offer that Safari doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Just tell the folks "as soon as Windows Mobile manufacturers start producing devices with capacitive screens, the advantage of browsing the Web on the iPhone (assuming running the latest Opera Mobile on Windows Mobile) will be no more"

fallenczar said:
Well to be brutally honest...
...the iphone guy will try to whoop your ass on the multimedia aspects of the device, multi touch, and a useful accelerometer and the ease of obtaining applications on a stock device.
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Click to collapse
You are absolutely correct, and I anticipate that. Given that the iPhone is an iPod with a phone attached, I would have to have a Zune with a phone attached to even come close on the multimedia aspects. I'm prepared to acknowledge that iPhone has an advantage there...
fallenczar said:
When you start to talk about 'Tweaking" you have already conceded that WM is less accessible than the other 2 OS in its stock form, your iphone buddy could remind you that jailbreaking is to iphone what custom roms are to WM, they both add value to your device...
...One more thing i'd line to point out here is that contrary to your belief, jailbreaking is in fact a piece of cake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so jailbreaking might not be that hard, but let's consider the audience here. Let's go with the common denominator, the average Joe (Joe the Plummer! Ha! Ha!). Regardless of how easy techy people might think it is, the average person has no interest in screwing with their warranty and doing such a thing to their several hundred dollar phone. I know several people here at work who have iPhones and 1.) they have no idea what jailbreaking is, and 2.) once I told them what it would do, they expressed no interest in doing such a thing. Similar to the multitudes of Windows Phone users that I know - the majority of them are not interested in changing out their ROM unless it comes from the carrier.
My point being, I will argue that we need to keep custom ROMS and Jailbreaking out of it, and discuss what can be done without those in the discussion! How does that change the playing field?!

bemymonkey said:
But WM ROM upgrades don't die as soon as the manufacturer releases an update for the device - you're not forced to upgrade to a version that de-jailbreaks your phone. As far as I know, this _is_ the case on the iPhone...
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Click to collapse
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.

The biggest advantage of WM is the sheer number of devices it comes on. You can buy a phone that fits your needs rather than compromising. Want a keyboard? no problem. Want a HUGE screen? no problem. Want a tiny screen on a tiny device? no problem! Whatever you could wan't has probably already been made.
Just don't mention that for the new versions of WM, Microsoft is trying to do away with that.

The iphone isn't better for multimedia.... Only when running games and certain apps on the device itself, otherwise it sucks in comparision when it comes to the hardware.
Cameras, Photos, Video recording quality + video calls etc + wm devices more often have better quality displays (higher resolution) & bigger when it comes to the Touch HD. Ok, iphone have multitouch but personally I don't care about it...

Menneisyys said:
All new iPhone upgrades are cracked in, in most cases, days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But as far as I know, you can't choose _not_ to upgrade, can you?
On WM you can just keep your old ROM as long as you're satisfied with it...

I think the iPhone's app store is both a strength and a weakness in its case.
Filtering apps and games for quality is a great way to make sure the phone "just works" for all users. If this is all that Apple did, the only argument against it would be arbitrary. However, Apple is also denying apps they deem "too similar" to Apple apps and those they feel are in bad taste. So if someone (say Opera) makes a better browser, too bad you have Safari for that. And if you want a fart-noise generator, it depends on if it is found to be "offensive" by some anonymous panel.
Also, comparing a jail-broken iphone to a stock (under warranty) windows phone is apples to oranges imo.

more iphone info for you guys
You can choose not to update the firmware on the iphone. You can turn the feature off in itunes that trys to update and if it asks you can simply hit no. And to my knowledge you can put on older firmwares (like 2.0 instead of 2.1) after you updated if you like a previous version.

Upcoming developer: which platform to concentrate on?

Hi there,
it seems to me most people here develop for WinMo devices, but maybe you can help me out nonetheless.
Currently, I'm a web developer in PHP (+ usual stuff). I studied computer science, so I'm not a newbie when it comes to coding I learned a lot of C and (unfortunately only) basics in Java and C++. I never got my hands on C# or VB and stuff - the only experience in developing applications for Windows Mobile was a small Texas Hold'em Clock (basically a simple countdown and some additional stuff) I did a few months back. I pretty much google'd everything I needed and copy'n pasted the code into Visual Studio - not really developing, but those where my first steps
I consider getting started in development for mobile devices like BlackBerry, Windows Mobile devices, iPhone, Symbian and/or Android. The problem is: I don't know which one of these might turn out useful on when I might be applying for a job later (which is basically my whole point doing this, I don't want to do web development for the rest of my life). Any thoughts?

What type of job do you want to do? first find out what the sort of jobs you want to do require, many software houses use c# so you could develop for windows mobile, if they require java then try android. Iphone uses objective c which isn't used outside of the mac world so unless you want to work for a company which creates mac programs maybe you should try something else.
Then again if you just want to make some cool apps and actually make money from them I would say iphone is the easiest to get you product to market then android with wm coming last.
also if you learn java then you can quickly pick up c# and vice versa so I don't think it really matters either way.
there are of course many other options, if you happen to want a job that requires python you could get the excellent upcoming n900 from nokia

Cant offer advise on that, but what you can do is write a better app for Facebook, the MS one SUCKS compared to the iphones (eeek i said the dirty word............)

ms's also sucks compared to the x1 panel facebook which again is not as good as iphones :S

Windows Mobile 7 Features leaked!

WP 7 features are leaking all over the net. Let me list them :
· WP7 will be announced at MWC, and there will be a demo, but this will be just the UX
· MIX will have specific developement focus sessions on WP7
· WP7 supports both Sliverlight (out of browser) and XNA
· Silverlight is version 3.0, with elements of 4.0 plus mobile specific features such as sensors etc
· XNA apps can be developed using XNA GameStudio 3.1
· SL apps developed using Expression Blend 3.x and VS2010
· MS will release a mobile version of VS / Expression which will be free, and VS2010 / Expression Pro will have a free add-on
· WP7 will have an equivalent of .NET CF embedded into SL, but no SQL.
· WP7 will have isolated storage which is accessible using LINQ
· The UX of WP7 is based upon a theme called “METRO” and is similar to Zune HD, but with a completely new “Start” screen.
· No multi-tasking (applications will pause when in the background, however they will support notifications using the MS Push Notifications environment)
· No .NET CF backwards compatibility, however a proportion of the data and business logic in .NET CF could be ported
· MS were confident to have devices ready for Sep 2010
· No MS manufactured device, however much tighter control of manufactring process, so as an example each device has a 3D processing chipset, and MS provide all of the device drivers. So no platform builder. This enables OTA updates and simplified model for ODM’s
· Marketplace will support buy and try before you buy, as well as an API
· ODM / OEM will not be able to modify the “Start” screen, so no more HTC Sense / TouchFlo etc.
· MS are actually ahead of schedule which will surprise the analysts / journalists
· Browsing experience is currently faster / better than iPhone 3G, and they are aiming towards 3GS.
· Browser is based upon desktop IE7 codebase, but with some IE8 functionality
· No in browser Flash or SL
· WP7 has full integration with XBOX Live, and ability to purchase games
· WP7 will use the Zune software for music, videos, photos sync
· WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading
· MS will provide a hosted push notifications environment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[Source]
While this might disappoint most but I for one am really happy to see that Microsoft is finally taking this seriously and has worked on WM7 from ground up!
Finally we will be able to get the User Experience comparable to iPhone/Android! Xbox Live and Zune integration sounds totally awesome!

Well this would be the media edition of the phone.... and all the OEM's will sport the 'professional' version of the phone...makes sense.

Still that won't make any Extreme Changes. The basic UI will remain the same. I feel there won't be any major differences User Interface wise between Windows Mobile 7 versions...they've already disallowed 3rd Party UI!

Im afraid your wrong . HTC have already said they will continue supporting Sense 3D on WinMo7, now they wouldnt have been able to do that if MS is going to lock down the UI.
I think/heard there will be 2 versions of the OS, the zune version which is what you see above (this will run on MS hardware, pretty much like the zune) and all the OEM's such as HTC, Toshiba, SE, etc etc will run the pro version of the OS which will similar to what we are used to...how different the OS will be in terms of GUI will be interesting to see, i sure hope that the zune version doesnt get all the goodies.

"WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading"
Does that mean we could not anymore install cab files from xda.dev ?

How far the new OS is going to be customizable is still to be seen. I think they will keep everything closed just like the iPhone and only allow limited modifications.

no multi tasking?... ... ...the point is???

If the above features are true ... Good bye WinMo7
I will go with Android (Or iPhone 4.0?) ...

^Could not wait and have already went over to the dark side...android is very cool best thing I've done!

this looks like some fanboys conspiracy
all windows mobile power (from the users point of view) that its so customizable and like micro computer
if wm7 gonna be kind of an iphone people will prefer the real iphone its perfect in its own limited way...

I can only say, if winmo drops multi-tasking, I'll drop winmo.
Gee. if people want a iPhone they'll get one.
Not everyone may be able to afford a 1ghz processor now, but the future's going to catch up before winmo7 comes out anyway.

tuksedra said:
no multi tasking?... ... ...the point is???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think of the pleasure to be got from watching WinMophiles having to admit to iPhonatics that WinMo is now even worse at multi-tasking than the iPhone is! (rotfl)

moooxooom said:
I can only say, if winmo drops multi-tasking, I'll drop winmo.
Gee. if people want a iPhone they'll get one.
Not everyone may be able to afford a 1ghz processor now, but the future's going to catch up before winmo7 comes out anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2!!!
Without Multi-Tasking, HTC Sense and not be able to install whatever I want in where I want, I will never buy a new winmo pda phone again...
I'll guess I'll have to go to Android or in the worst case to iPhone

Multi-Tasking would be indeed a absolute no-go. I'm sure, that will never NOT happen.
I hope, you're also in the future allowed to install what you want where you want. I hate these Iphone restrictions. Let's hope, this will not gonna happen for WM.

I think companies are going paranoid... don't understand why many restrictions when on the desktop side u can do whatever u want... because of a majority of dumbs, that don't even know how to shutdown a computer, the rest of us have to suffer of these limitations...

No multi-tasking means I'm sticking with 6.5.3 (or whatever they call it) or going with Android.
Don't they realize that competing with Apple in Apple's arena will only get them smoked PLUS alienate their fanbase? We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os. What we do want is a rebuilt, faster, better WinMo os that is just as customizable as the current os.
Seriously, if they are planning on putting out a winphone os, they are going to lose. period.

fb401 said:
No multi-tasking means I'm sticking with 6.5.3 (or whatever they call it) or going with Android.
Don't they realize that competing with Apple in Apple's arena will only get them smoked PLUS alienate their fanbase? We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os. What we do want is a rebuilt, faster, better WinMo os that is just as customizable as the current os.
Seriously, if they are planning on putting out a winphone os, they are going to lose. period.
Click to expand...
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said

Maybe they will remove the file manager. If they remove the file manager, the device is no more PDA.

fb401 said:
We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os.
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Click to collapse
"We" aren't exactly a mass market, though. There were considerably more iPhones sold in the last 12 months than every single model of Windows Mobile phone put together. (WinMo is currently a distant fourth in the smartphone market behind Symbian, RIM and iPhone, with Android closing). The bulk of those who still buy WinMo phones are corporate customers. If abandoning the needs of a tiny minority of users (i.e. us) will net Microsoft a substantially improved marketshare, you can bet they'll do just that.
Having said that, I'm inclined to view this particular rumour with some suspicion; at the very least, with other rumours persistently claiming that there is more than one version of WM7 in the offing, it certainly makes no sense to assume, at this stage, that every available version will be like this.

sigh..........
I really hope some of this is not true. And I will wait until some formal announcement to make up my mind BUT if true, no multitasking, no user UI customization, no apps installed to sd card, all apps through the Marketplace?? Had I wanted to live in a walled garden I would have already bought an Iphone.
I've been using WinMo PDAs and phones for more years than I care to admit. Maybe it is time to simplify my life and get a dumb phone and swear off tech. Guess I can start carrying around all my passwords written down in a code again in my purse (shades of the 80's here except that I have a bunch more and they are all pretty complicated now- I do love my ewallet). grrrrrrr...............

Why does so much crapware exist for Windows Mobile OS?

I never understood it because it seems to contradict itself.
One thing I hear a lot of is how hard it is to program for Windows Mobile devices. That it just isn't developer friendly as long as graphics and commands go. Can't say I know much about this since I'm not a developer.
Still at the same time I see a lot of crapware. By this I mean programs that are just constant repeats of each other and sometimes it's just a crappy do nothing program. Don't get me wrong I know developers take time and work to do what they do, but OMG some of the programs are complete crap. The games are sometimes nothing more than sprites taken from other games with a simple jump/shoot interface added to them. Apps that make fart sounds. 20 apps that schedule tasks. 100 clock apps. 1 millions custom UIs. etc. Constant same things that in the end don't really make the Windows Mobile OS anymore appealing. What confuses me is if programs are really that hard to develop then why are so many people able to create and recreate the crapware that we see nowaday?

I think one of the main reasons is that
1) Windows Mobile has been around for so long, the crap just build up
2) (no idea about this) I'd guess that if you can write a program for Windows, Windows mobile is not that much harder, so a greater number of people know how to write ****ty programs.
The one nice thing about iPhone is the market place is so crap free, though I'd rather have to wade through the crap to find the priceless gems then have someone else decide what I could and could not have on my device.

Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount

As someone with experience of what it's like to develop apps for Windows Mobile I can shed a little light on it. One of the problems is what Microsoft provide to developers - called the compact framework - i.e. it's toolkit for building program interfaces. The interfaces it produces are very basic at best, and if you want to do anything clever (e.g. gradients, transparency, iphone style animated menus, image buttons, etc. etc.) you have jump through a lot of hoops.
Developers should be able to concentrate on writing what makes their app good, and not worry about having to make the interface looking good - that should be Microsoft's job. Unfortunately Microsoft have only provided very basic looking stuff. That'll change with windows phone 7 though.
Of course (and to defend Microsoft slightly) the iphone is easier for apple to support developers as it is one phone - whereas windows mobile is multiple screen resolutions, multiple OS versions, different processors, different manufacturers.... etc. Again why Microsoft are moving to a more defined hardware platform with windows phone 7 specs.
But it is possible to right really good/fancy interfaces for windows mobile - I like to think I do - but that's not through any support from Microsoft. To write a fancy animated menu with nice blending of colours and animated zooms and swishing left and right etc. etc. on the iphone takes 5 minutes. To do the equivalent on Windows Mobile took me about a month of writing my own GUI toolkit.
When it comes to games there's no excuse - the fact I can run playstation games such as Tekken 3 on my HD2 shows that it's capable of amazing things. The games companies need to stop shunting rubbish.
Ian

stylez said:
Moved as not software release.
Even with just reading topic header all that came to my head is least you don't have an iphone as then there's a amazing amount
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Click to collapse
I'd consider this to be true too, but the only thing I can say is that at least they have a considerable amount of games and apps that are new, newer looking and some more useful than others here. I personally don't like iPhone and own an HD2, but I just notice how useless so many apps are whenever I look through the apps section in Handango, PocketGear and WM Marketplace. Not to mention how outdated most of them are too.

you guys forget that there are alot of windows ce 5 devices still in exsistence and they are still alive and kiking.... sort of...
as for the newer devices i love what they have done with htc hardware... altho the OS updates culd be readialy available to us mortals
as for the crapware.... you can allways uninstall the program or never run it if it came with your phone....
id like to say that the sence ui is mostly a bothersome resorce hog that i shut down every time i hard reset or try to get a rom that dosent have it cooked in, it culd also be considered as crapware....

The Future of Android ...

So, Heres what I'm seeing..
Windows eventually removing their heads from the warm dark places which inspire them, and bridging the gap between Win 8 and WinPhoney.. and giving users back a powerful PDA-like experience where we can once again do powerful things on our devices besides swipe & play games
iPhone6 or iPhone7 actually functioning more like a tablet, the iPad functioning more like a macbook, and people actually getting work done on their phones again.
Both the above phones docking into docking control stations which go to myDP out to Flatscreen + mouse & keyboard, for a Full Office Pocket Computing Combo
and Android clinging to their obsolete wanabe iPhone, pain-in-the-butt smartphone experience they seem overjoyed about... without anyplace to progress to but the dreaded Linux OS, losing all of its users but the current Linux users when the bridge from Phones to Desktops is complete
Google, Apple, & MS working like crazy to be sure phones stay as far away from desktops as possible for as long as possible, by continued slothful micro-trickling of RAM, ROM memory, Internal Memory, GPU & CPU speeds, and very un-user-friendly software which keeps phone users confined to a small phone box to expand their profitability
the rise of Hardware companies like ASUS, Huawei, etc, who offer devices able to support Win8.. Apple quickly changing their game to follow suit, and the inevitable end of this little current SmartPhone-only empire
and Android left diddling themselves making a few diehard Desktop Linux OS Phones
and I dont see Android having much of any future at all in that rapidly approaching time period they seem completely oblivious to.
anyone agree with that forecast & assessment?

Android is very popular among all the OSs & the combination of a cool software & high end latest hardware makes it endlessly happening.

ak070 said:
Android is very popular among all the OSs & the combination of a cool software & high end latest hardware makes it endlessly happening.
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Click to collapse
ok.. so the "cool apps" you feel will make it to be "endlessly happening", regardless of the generation or era?
and "the latest hardware" remember is all relative...
You dont think INCREASED hardware capabilities able to support a larger more fully functioning, & more useful OS will make these little apps seem a trivial waste of time?

chinarabbit said:
ok.. so the "cool apps" you feel will make it to be "endlessly happening", regardless of the generation or era?
and "the latest hardware" remember is all relative...
You dont think INCREASED hardware capabilities able to support a larger more fully functioning, & more useful OS will make these little apps seem a trivial waste of time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never mentioned cool apps. I'm talking about the overall OS. Its Open source. So there are many manufacturers that use this OS & come up with their own ideas & devices with different designs which gives users a very wide variety to choose from. And as far as new hardware is concerned, manufacturers like Samsung & Sony use new hardwares to add new features which were never implemented before & completely redefine the 'Smartphone' experience.
I'm not saying that other OSs are bad. It's the matter of one's own taste finally.

Seems to me your assessment is based on your usage/desired usage.....in reality many many people don't really even need a Windows pc, and use the internet primarily for media/social applications, which android favours.
So there will always be a market out there regardless I reckon

Nice fortune telling but i really dont agree ...

ak070 said:
I never mentioned cool apps. I'm talking about the overall OS. Its Open source. So there are many manufacturers that use this OS & come up with their own ideas & devices with different designs which gives users a very wide variety to choose from. And as far as new hardware is concerned, manufacturers like Samsung & Sony use new hardwares to add new features which were never implemented before & completely redefine the 'Smartphone' experience.
I'm not saying that other OSs are bad. It's the matter of one's own taste finally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya... but is it really just about OSs? or do u think the manufacturers play a larger role in it?
For example, if Samsung & HTC were to create the majority of their devices for use with a new "Windows Mobile 7" because of its design & functionality & usefulness exceeding that of Android - which would inevitably happen, because even though Android is useful for certain things, a Phone OS who encompassed those things, and surpassed it in many others, creating a wider-use platform able to satisfy a broader user base would have to dominate - Dont you think that the number of Android users would dwindle to near nothing?
if every new HTC & Samsung was built with, say, a "Windows Mobile 7" which out-performed Android, and was preferred by companies like ASUS, Huawei, HTC, & Samsung, because of the OS having more use in Government & Job-specific applications that Win CE is often used for, which WinMo 6 started to see a bit of before it was sat on.. Users would of course move from Android to WinMo7, and I really dont see that there would be many android users left at all
Linux is Open Source, yet very few there are who use it & develop for it..
Windows is the largest OS on earth.. Like it or not - like MS or not - developers still create freeware and awesome programs according to the specifications of the device. and if that device allowed for more control, functionality, & customizability, it stands to reason that most devs would migrate as well

If this is a arguent thread well here we go..
i walked into the windows store and messed with the 41mp phone and all i did was spend 10min scrolling down and up to find apps
end of my argument...

androidfoshizzle said:
If this is a arguent thread well here we go..
i walked into the windows store and messed with the 41mp phone and all i did was spend 10min scrolling down and up to find apps
end of my argument...
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ya, it can get a bit silly... apparently they are alphabetized, and i think you can sort different ways too..
For 100% sure, WindowsPhone will never amount to anything unless its a full Win8 they call WinPhone some day
but I do think win MOBILE 7 is whats needed, and what could sink android.

Android won't sink..Ubuntu will have a phone out that has a full desktop OS by the time windows does anything.. Android is a mobile operating system anyways
sent from 9 month old nexus 4

open source
i agree with androidfoshizzle..linux (android ubuntu) is open source and have many supporters..its free but gives high end support and availability of features.they understood that linux has to become user friendly and it has come to a very reasonable level!

chinarabbit said:
So, Heres what I'm seeing..
Windows eventually removing their heads from the warm dark places which inspire them, and bridging the gap between Win 8 and WinPhoney.. and giving users back a powerful PDA-like experience where we can once again do powerful things on our devices besides swipe & play games
iPhone6 or iPhone7 actually functioning more like a tablet, the iPad functioning more like a macbook, and people actually getting work done on their phones again.
Both the above phones docking into docking control stations which go to myDP out to Flatscreen + mouse & keyboard, for a Full Office Pocket Computing Combo
and Android clinging to their obsolete wanabe iPhone, pain-in-the-butt smartphone experience they seem overjoyed about... without anyplace to progress to but the dreaded Linux OS, losing all of its users but the current Linux users when the bridge from Phones to Desktops is complete
Google, Apple, & MS working like crazy to be sure phones stay as far away from desktops as possible for as long as possible, by continued slothful micro-trickling of RAM, ROM memory, Internal Memory, GPU & CPU speeds, and very un-user-friendly software which keeps phone users confined to a small phone box to expand their profitability
the rise of Hardware companies like ASUS, Huawei, etc, who offer devices able to support Win8.. Apple quickly changing their game to follow suit, and the inevitable end of this little current SmartPhone-only empire
and Android left diddling themselves making a few diehard Desktop Linux OS Phones
and I dont see Android having much of any future at all in that rapidly approaching time period they seem completely oblivious to.
anyone agree with that forecast & assessment?
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fortune teller!

androidfoshizzle said:
Android won't sink..Ubuntu will have a phone out that has a full desktop OS by the time windows does anything.. Android is a mobile operating system anyways
sent from 9 month old nexus 4
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Click to collapse
I think it already does
The problem with Linux is its just over complicated and not much fun to use.. everytime you want to do something, you have to pull out your programmers reference book.. or google it.
I had thought early on that Android would be a way to enter Google into direct competition with Apple & Windows Desktop OSs, and give us all another viable option..
the problem is two-fold..
1stly, Linux Devs are overly left-brained. and they dont have any creative oversight or people in charge of non-geeky usability engineering.. making Linux the choice of OS for people who enjoy doing what would only be done by IT guys if your computer had serious problems on other OSs
2ndly, Google's own shortsightedness.. their Android dev team has created an implementation of the Powerful Android Platform that is really anything but powerful... and these google OS's are designed inside and out to be phones, and have little use outside the mobile phone market, except as equally-functioning tablets, which make them little more than large phones, without great calling ability
the Ubuntu OS is starting to be developed for Android, rather than the other way around.. its looking more and more like a Phone interface.. It actually seems to be optimized for touch screens, and if not, the developers think "making Linux more user-friendly" means making it work like a phone..
Users want an OS thats fun to use.. we're not all retards... i dont think the devs get the difference.
at any rate, Ubuntu is definitely NOT replacing Win7 or Win8 or OSXs anytime soon, thats much has been made painfully transparent by google..
further, google really wants to make you know you are using a Google product.. it has Google DNA on it from top to bottom.. which is great if you think Google is the way you should be doing all of your computing.
I think, still, a powerful Windows Mobile 7 Solution would quell Android, and take all wind out of its sails, and eventually pretty much squash it for all but Ubuntu Desktop users

But Even given its complexity and difficulty of use, how many of us would still prefer to have a Linux Desktop on our Phone, rather than a Google Phone for our desktop???
I most certainly would