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I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...
Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.
On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.
i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t
i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd
There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.
Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)
I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.
i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi
I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.
I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.
I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.
PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?
I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.
Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH
thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.
As June 9th is just around the corner, I am just curious who will switch over to the new 3G iPhone? This maybe the wrong place to ask since everyone is a WM user including myself, very happy with my Trinity, but just really curious as to what it will take for you to switch to the new iPhone. I used the current iPhone for just over a month and I must say that Safari, the screen, and the user interface is unmatched atm. It did lack many things but with the SDK launching it could be a whole new world. Just curious what your thoughts are...and just incase you are curious my iPhone was a lemon (long story) so it just heated up and broke. Since I unlocked it myself the warranty was voided.
Depends on whether it'll be able to record calls. If it can, I may dump my current HTC Oxygen (one of the VERY few HTC models to support recording) and switch to the iPhone,
no
maybe if i can handwrite on it
Another no here.
WM is more versatile for me, that and I dont like the dumbed down approach that Apple takes on all of its devices.
Also with the X1 around the corner, I don't think I'll be making the switch any time soon.
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
galaxys said:
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
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It will need GPS for me to get it, and I don't want something that half the world may have...
It will probably be the Raphael or the X1 for me.
dumbed-down is a little unfair. The approach of the Iphone is to make things simple so that everyone can enjoy it. I'm used to Winmo and I'm used to Symbian but there is a definite draw to the Iphone's sleek, intuitive and WELL THOUGHT OUT system. What's WRONG with simple if all the functionality is there? Would you not take all the features of Winmo if they were put into a simpler package? Or is it better to have everything bogged down in menus?
Granted it's not there yet, but with external GPS support at least the Iphone could become serious competition - people aren't apeing its ideas for nothing.
The SDK release has seen a huge surge in development for the Iphone: it has to be seen to be believed.
I may get an Iphone; I probably won't but it crosses my mind occasionally. At the very least the introduction of the Iphone has made Windows Mobile users' experience a HELL OF A LOT BETTER as Opera 9.5 and Iphone-mimicing systems such as Touchflo prove.
I'm a proud WM owner here however I do own the first iPhone (don't use it much) and I propably will buy the iPhone 2.0 but I doubt I will use it as a primary phone. I'm a bit of a gadget freak and like to handle the devices myself rather then read about them but with all the things I can do with the WM devices I doubt I will switch to the iPhone.
I'm too dependent on 3rd party apps as references, so NO I won't switch at the moment.
...
Lol! Great poll! WinMo all the way for me!
I'll keep my device and continue to trump the iPhone users with my device, even if it is upgraded, I'll just upgrade more!
GPS was one of my "must have" for a phone and if the 2nd Gen iPhone has it, it will definitely be worth looking at. It took a very long time for WM to get GPS to be pretty much standard and if it only took Apple one year to put GPS on then they are really listening to the average consumers. IMHO I highly doubt there will be built in GPS or A2DP. Only time will tell.
I once thought that if iPhone has GPS, if it has ability to take in spare battery, if it has a slot for microSDHC, if it has 7.2Mb/s download speed, then I would definitely switch over. But then I think again, and said, no, I still won't.
The first reason is I have so many very attractive third party software that would only run on win mo platform and not iPhone platform.
The second reason is that some of the winmo phone are already having close to iPhone user interface anyway. HTC diamond, HTC Raphael, Sony Xperia X1, just to name a few.
The third reason is that I'm a person who get bored with the same phone very quickly, no matter how complete it is, how user friendly it is, and how slick it is. I just need to change the way it looks and feel every now and then without actually changing the phone itself. Winmo is the only platform that lets me do this. I change ROM, I change what gets shown on the today screen, I change the resolution (96 to 128, to 192), giving me a feeling that it is a completely new phone every now and then. I keep swaping in and out my weather program, my youtube player, my file explorer. I spend considerable of my freetime looking for better and newer third party applications, and this hobby is additive almost. If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
In some ways iPhone is ahead of the pack, but it is way way behind in many other respect and is playing a catch up game. Sorry, but this is true. It is understandable because it is still new in this field.
I wont upgrade to iphone as I dont like apples 'Locked Down' approach to everything... if they want more dominance then they need to open it up... not just by offering applications through itunes.
I'd need full synchronization with MS Offce, similar to what you get from Activesync before considering iphone.
No, not at all. Until Apple realise that "youtube" isn't important enough to warrant its own menu icon then their devices won't appeal to me! I like the versitality of Windows Mobile devices
eaglesteve said:
If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
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You hit it on the head right there, my friend. I get bored and change things up constantly...I don't know if I could handle being stuck with the same screens forever.
For my work (techy for large manufacturing corp.) I have both an iPhone (beta 2 firmware) and Treo 750 (wm6 to 6.1 depending on how I feel that day/week) and while the iPhone does some multimedia stuff better, but from a total end-user experience the Treo is a much better device. I however, have to believe that the next "true" incarnation of the iPhone (this 3g release not being it) will be much closer to the "desktop" experience. When they do "open" the device to end user customization (i.e. installing apps, fine tuning device behavior) in addition to adding basic functionality (e.g. cut and paste) and continued in-roads to exchange they will then have a product to compete against. I will give Apple the nod that they certainly raised the bar with this 1st attempt - look at all the threads here trying to duplicate the home page and all the advances in the touch ui that have since taken place. Granted this may have eventually come about, but the iPhone has to be given credit for "encouraging" more fervent development.
But since that is just a "hunch" right now, I will only hope my employer gives me the 3g upgrade just so I don't have to suffer through edge any longer. But really am looking forward to seeing the Diamond and/or Raphael in the states. What I have seen of the UI is just brilliant and looks to have raised the bar I earlier mentioned a couple of notches higher still.
Cheers!
sure, iPhone is an eye candy, but other than that. It is really a flashy toy to lug around. For functionality, I would stick with either Diamond or Sonyericsson X1.
ir the iphone had third party applications allowing a wider margin of customization, gps, tv.............. maybe id get it as a plaything or a pet for my Sprint Touch lol but not my main phone fo sho, it looks nice and flashy but thats the case, its designed for dumb pple that dont know much about modern functuality in a phone and lets themselves be seduced of the looks and flashy interface leading them to believe that its Gods phone lol, makes me laugh... anyway id admit that i might get it but not as my main phone
think i will be getting it will still use WM tho i'll have both i just liek the way the iphone looks and feels nice and sexy
Hi,
I was looking at the iSuppli figures for the new iPhone 3GS and the Pal Pre and looking at the specifications of those phones it seems like they heavily outweigh even newer devices like touch pro 2 which cost like 30% or more. The Pre and the 3GS have
Much better application processors. ARM Cortex 8 approximately 50-70% faster than the ones in omnia
Separate Applications and Base Band Processors
Capacitive touch screens
16 Million color screens
Higher capacity and quality NAND memory
Considering that these manufacturers are also including costs of R&D for their OS in the phone price as well while manufacturers like HTC, Samsung and Acer just build shells for Windows Mobile which should be a lot cheaper how are the higher prices justified?
Another thing, people from HTC have been complaining for some time now that an 18bit color more would be too much of a hit/not possible in Winmo and are still sticking to 16bit while with the upcoming Omnia pro and Omnia II Samsung is using 24bit and 18bit respectively. The only thing better about Winmo device screens is the higher resolution.
The only thing besides hardware for Windows phone manufacturers is case design and shell development. Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? I would like to hear what long time users think of it.
PS: Got 3GS and Pre information from http://www.cellular-news.com/story/37945.php
Constructive comments please
Thanks
[QUOTE Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? [/QUOTE]
I don´t think it´s ok.
I decided to stay in HTC line devices for one great reason that makes the diference: XDA-DEVS!!!!
Without this great site I might turn my interest on Toshiba new devices, even with WM.
I don´t have any good comment respect the others OS...
Perhaps Android in a mid-future term...
They ask as much as possible for a device. Actually that's the reason I'd never really buy the rhodium. HTC always releases devices with a little flaw they fix in the next device (but make a new flaw, like FM radio in rhodium). What we need isn't that much: (F)WVGA, Tegra/Snapdragon/OMAP, 5-8 megapixel camera WITH flash and such others. I hope that Acer F1 is going to rock so I can buy my next device
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
to be honest, the only reason i buy htc/winmo devices is this site....and the fact i can get tomtom on it
but now i see tomtom is on the iphone, having used an iphone this week, i can say there are things il ike about it, but its a bit to dumbed down for me i feel, but then, it does just work, and the touchscreen seems to work much better than any htc device i've used
i seriously miss having a flashlight, i mean camera flash on my phone, my old samsung d500 was brilliant in the dark, also miss having a camera that doesn't have wierd blue on it all the time no matter how much i seem to fiddle with it
galaxys said:
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
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Yeah, the iPhone is ****ingly well done... I have tons of WinMo devices but, for most tasks, I use my iPhone 3G. It's, hardware-wise, so much better than those lame resistive screen-based HTC craps...
And yes, as soon as the 3G S arrives here (in July), I'll be among the first to purchase it. I love gaming on these things.
true. i am tired of defending htc with my friends who have iphone. even the new palm pre which i tested today is so sweet. the screen jumps at u. i loved it
when my contract is up next month i am so buying an iphone.
the only reason i stayed so long is XDA and the tweaking i could do. kept me interested but now i dnt have time to be tweaking.
i want a phone that works and does what it needs to do without constant resetting and tweaks from XDA
I believe HTC made the best financial choice for this year. Due to Economical situation they know there will less demand on high end devices. Therefore they have not risk any high R&D and expensive parts. They choose already existing platforms and just add few more spec. I believe that is the best way to keep their profit margins!!!! The sad thing is they do have still advantage over the other hardware manufacturers which makes them too confident.
Beside from the Hardware issues on the WinMO I believe it is the OS that keeps all Hardware manufacturer and also Software makers struggle. Window Mobile OS clearly out aged but Microsoft is not fast enough to come up with something NEW and BETTER. Be frank WinMo 6.5 is just a joke. It has no major changes. Win 7 has delayed few times and besides no one knows what going to come out from that development.
Clearly if MS and HTC continue in such way they sure will be losing huge market which we already started to see!!!!!
I know..many WinMo supporters will say compare to WinMo..Iphone can’t do this... Iphone can’t do that. The fact is that 90% consumer that buy a device for 500-900USD don’t wanted spend their entire time to tweak and modify a expensive device to function a bit better!!! Beside most of those are not technical and therefore the learning curve to handle WinMo is much much longer.
I believe as a long term user of WinMo we become use to the limitation of MS OS and hardware so that we already see those as normal. But I do trust that many of us forget that WE PAYING REALLY 500-900 USD for piece of CRAP!!!
We just NEED to see the falling prices of Notebooks and Netbooks then we know how much we over paying for our HTC devices.
"HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success."
Infuckingdeed.
Menneisyys said:
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
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I was scared that XDA-Devs is a fanboy site, with no rational thinking allowed. Glad to see this isn't the case.
Let's call a spade is a spade - HTC has ridden way too long on the coattails of cheap design, cheap QVGA screens and crap hardware with no or poor drivers, selling for $649 unlocked.
With the advent of iPhone (love or hate), and Android devices the broadcast media seem to be touting this technology as new, ignoring that us faithful WinMo users have been creating, downloading and using 'apps' and generally customising our phones for years.
I never hear of new releases for WinMo, but plenty about iPhone and increasingly Android - I'm thinking Spotify client and the new actual reality stuff where data is superimposed on the camera view; but there are many others.
I know there's loads of us out there, and we tend to look after ourselves, but the mainstream appears to be shunning the WM operating system.
I'd pay for a Spotify client, a WM version of Dynolicious, and I'm quite excited about actual reality, but I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology.
So if we refute that, and laud the benefits of winmo.. will that reaffirm your belief in this mobile o/s?
Always dangerous letting others dictate whats relevant to your world.
66mustang said:
With the advent of iPhone (love or hate), and Android devices the broadcast media seem to be touting this technology as new, ignoring that us faithful WinMo users have been creating, downloading and using 'apps' and generally customising our phones for years.
I never hear of new releases for WinMo, but plenty about iPhone and increasingly Android - I'm thinking Spotify client and the new actual reality stuff where data is superimposed on the camera view; but there are many others.
I know there's loads of us out there, and we tend to look after ourselves, but the mainstream appears to be shunning the WM operating system.
I'd pay for a Spotify client, a WM version of Dynolicious, and I'm quite excited about actual reality, but I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology.
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IMHO, the reason that you hear more regarding the other o/s's is that they are newer and have much less testing and use than winmo does, not to mention less apps as well as more more problems and issues! Each time a new version of winmo comes out, we have to deal with the same types of problems, but as it is a more developed platform, it does not take as long to work out the bugs.
A good example here is when MS created that p.o.s system known as Vista! It was JUNK! Then over time, it got a bit better, but MS finally got smart and gave up on fixing it's many issues and has now developed Win 7.
Later............
Phen0m said:
So if we refute that, and laud the benefits of winmo.. will that reaffirm your belief in this mobile o/s?
Always dangerous letting others dictate whats relevant to your world.
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What a rediculous argument. I know WM is the best mobile OS, but then Betamax was the best video system.
I'm not talking about what's important for me, I'm talking about what people see as available - WM gets no mainstream media coverage, no-one goes into shops asking for it (just try going into an O2 shop or Carphone Warehouse and attempting to get an informed conversation from the sales staff about any WM device) and then we get a snowball effect where none of the 'killer' apps are being devloped for it - all efforts are being made towards the iPhone because it's sexy, WM is much better, more flexible, but ultimately nerdy (not that the general public even know it exists).
Maybe it'll remain as the business class mobile OS, which I'll be happy with as there's always the skilled people on here and similar sites to keep the software coming. Thanks guys.
I think one of the main reasons why WinMo is being left behind is because other people are intimidated by it. iPhone and Android are more user friendly with less things to worry about. Whenever I suggested a WinMo phone to my friends, they always say something along the lines of "I don't want to get stuck with a bunch of problems"
I will say, that it does take some kind of persistance and knowledge of how this OS works in order to be able to fiddle around with it. In the mean time, I guess android and iPhone are the "go-to" devices for people who want something easy to start with.
I honestly would never choose an iPhone, and I've never used an Android, so I wouldn't know how closely Android resembles WinMo.
theomni said:
I honestly would never choose an iPhone, and I've never used an Android, so I wouldn't know how closely Android resembles WinMo.
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While the iPhone 3GS is becoming what the iPhone should have been in the first place - I would never get an iPhone either for all the familiar reasons. The iPhone's main UI is an icon fest. I'd like to seem more information on the home screen. Also, the control freakery of Apple when it comes to what apps are allowed to run is unacceptable to me.
Android on the other hand is leaving WM completely behind. The HTC Hero is just amazing. It makes WinMo look very clunky indeed. You have the power, flexibilty and openness of the WM platform, with almost the polish and usability of the iPhone platform - but with multi-tasking.
What's worse is that this does not have to be the case. PointUI shows what's possible with existing WM technology but for some reason M$ hasn't gone there up to now.
I have not seen WM6.5 or WM7 yet so I can't comment on how they are addressing the issue in these new versions.
Android need a while longer to mature. But at this moment it seems like Android is the new windows mobile. Customizable, opensource, HTC, app store, its like the bastard step child of what would happen if the IPHONE and WINMO had a one night stand. That said, I don't feel like Winmo is being left behind. You only need to look at the Samsung who makes phones for everyone but the Omnia was its "THE PHONE" and it ran on windows. HTC will not abandon windows, look at the anticipation for TD2 TP2. Toshiba is getting into the fray. Nvidia will soon be throwing some love into windows (based upon the look of the Zune HD, we could be in for some fun). Lets be honest, the phone market is Winmo'd out. Every brand except Nokia is cranking out phones and its an oversaturated market. Which is why its hard for any particular brand to make a big splash unless they innovate, innovation will push this market foward. This is an exciting time to have windows.
However, i do believe the problem is this, hardware. Clearly Winmo is a huge system to carry. Simple things need to disappear..huge load times, massive lag. These things make our devices, no matter how current the software is, seem ancient. This is up to M$ to fix, and for developer (HTC) to start addressing by using proper hardware...I'm tired of having underpowered devices, I'm tired of key things missing, companies need to step up to the plate. I applaud Toshiba for loading the TG01 to the teeth with hardware, but am disappointed in them letting a 5 year old design their interface. Like it or love it....this is where we sit. I wouldn't trade it for any other OS.
I think you're right when you say that every man and his dog are knocking out winmo phones - how many X1 users are aware that behind their panels is WM? It's not a must have for the average punter, at least not like the iPhone, that is just lovely to look at, but that's where it ends for me. When their adverts brag that you can cut and paste - to me that's the measure of the device. I would have been gutted if I'd got one and found it wouldn't do the simplest of tasks - almost like making a Walkman with no headphone socket; pointless.
I've no experience of Android, so i can't comment, but it appears to be going where WM should be.
I just wish that the mainstream media were a little more informed about WM and it's benefits, not least the adaptability and flexibility and the years of experience that is available.
I'm stuck on Windows Mobile because it's the only platform with the functionality I demand.
Android shows promise, and it may even have a decent Office suite if someone's ported OpenOffice.org (to help me overcome the lack of SoftMaker Office), but I don't know if the multimedia format support will be as good as TCPMP on Windows Mobile, and I certainly don't know if it has a PIM suite worth dirt, let alone capable of standing up to the good old Pocket Informant + PocketBreeze combo (or, better yet, an Apple Newton MessagePad 2000/2100, which is actually still a better device than the new iPhones and iPod touches in some respects, especially if it's PIM and battery life).
I must admit, though, the Creative Zii Egg enticed me with its specs. It just fell flat by not having a hardware keyboard and only having a 480x320 screen when I'm used to 640x480 and want to move all the way up to 800x480. Then again, the other device I want-the Samsung Mondi-has only a microSDHC slot as opposed to a full-size SDHC slot and only 4 GB of internal storage instead of a whopping 32 GB. It also lacks multitouch, but at least the resistive digitizer permits a stylus with a fine point. Finally, it's 50 US$ more expensive than the Zii Egg.
(Also, you might notice something in common with those two devices: they are NOT phones. What happened to the non-phone Windows Mobile devices, ruggedized GETAC units aside? I mean, Apple has the iPod touch for those who want most of the iPhone experience, but don't want to be tied to AT&T and may not even care for the phone part. The Samsung Mondi was a surprising exception to that rule, though it veers close to phone territory with that WiMAX radio. Just wait 'til Clearwire gets some actual coverage, and Mondi owners are gonna Skype/Google Voice/VoIP it up...)
I believe Windows Mobile is being left behind in terms of processing speed of its applications. Sure they are releasing devices with powerful processors to cope up, but I believe the best solution is to redesign WM from within, so that even slow processors can handle humongous applications. Other than that...I don't think I have any other complaints against WM. That is why I have always been praying for more powerful devices.
Honestly, I think the truth is that WM6 is going to be dead in the near future. I expect WM7 to be a radical departure from previous versions, and I think we'll see a more powerful, more functional, more consumer-friendly ecosystem emerge. Unless, of course, it tanks.
WM6 isn't dead yet from a user standpoint and there IS new software being released, especially cool little user-made apps. For flashy commercial apps, though, I think it's largely a dead platform. Windows Mobile was developed as an OS for executives and tech geeks, not mainstream consumers. That won't change until WM7.
Lets be honest, if winmo came out properly and had all the OS functionality the we crave, this site would be severely lacking. The majority of the apps for WINMO are used to do things that the should be successfully doing in the first place. Finger friendly menus, better functionality (calendar,appointments,settings..etc), and more eye pleasing apps (SMS,contacts,taskmanager)....these are the short comings of winmo....but our biggest flaw might honestly be our biggest perk.
I like tweaking, I like to choose what I want, skin it how I want it, I can go from Vito-contacts to I contacts, to finger friendly contacts...I can play with SPB3, Winterface, Pointui....I can make my phone whatever I want it...do that with an Iphone....matterfact, I'll take my Touch HD and do the Iphone UI for you, hell give us a few months and I'll show you android as well.
It seems with Manila 2.5 coming, and Samsung's Omnia2 rolling, windows is doing just fine. If you want to see a TV commercial about it...don't blame M$, they just create the OS...blame the companies who make the phones for not advertising, but I don't believe advertising is needed because our phones sell themselves. M$ just needs to tidy up some of the UI, make it snappy make it transition, make it not hog memory, and the Hardware will make it sing. Right now we have the hardware with the software which is why the Omnia2 still lags and runs slow even though its running 800MHz. WINCE ftw.
Right now honestly, I hold my breath for the X3...it makes android look so silky
66mustang said:
What a rediculous argument. I know WM is the best mobile OS, but then Betamax was the best video system.
I'm not talking about what's important for me, I'm talking about what people see as available - WM gets no mainstream media coverage, no-one goes into shops asking for it (just try going into an O2 shop or Carphone Warehouse and attempting to get an informed conversation from the sales staff about any WM device) and then we get a snowball effect where none of the 'killer' apps are being devloped for it - all efforts are being made towards the iPhone because it's sexy, WM is much better, more flexible, but ultimately nerdy (not that the general public even know it exists).
Maybe it'll remain as the business class mobile OS, which I'll be happy with as there's always the skilled people on here and similar sites to keep the software coming. Thanks guys.
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Sorry if this gets off topic, but I find Phen0m had a valid point, and in fact, philosophically a sound argument. Even more so when you say "I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology."
On topic, the question for me is left behind "in what areas?" I believe you are absolutely right about the press coverage, the hype etc and that the more consumer oriented, mass market kind of apps could end up not being developed for the WM platform if the market is too small. Possibly you could always speculate that there will be some differentiation in the market, where one brand/and or platform could become the premier consumer product, and other platforms become more corporate centric. This type of niche development would be natural in most markets.
On the other hand, many consumers don't care what the OS is, and so we've seen reasonable success with Samsung's Omnia and HTC's Diamond. As long as there is widespread consumer acceptance of WM phones it's likely consumer oriented apps will be developed.
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
In some respects Microsoft has one hand tied behind its back on this one. As the iPhone and Android develop further they will also hit the same problem. CE 6.0 may allow a few major changes but that will probably be WinMo 7. 6.5 seems a bit half-baked as yet.
stephj said:
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
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I have a feeling that WM7 might not support previous WM apps (though I assume it'll be easy to port, especially .NET stuff). I could be wrong, but I have a definite suspicion that MS actually WANTS a clean break.
typo said:
I could be wrong, but I have a definite suspicion that MS actually WANTS a clean break.
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You could be right.
WM certainly needs a clean break. Android is a breath of fresh air.
stephj said:
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
In some respects Microsoft has one hand tied behind its back on this one. As the iPhone and Android develop further they will also hit the same problem. CE 6.0 may allow a few major changes but that will probably be WinMo 7. 6.5 seems a bit half-baked as yet.
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I disagree here, because a lot of developers have dumped everything prior to Windows Mobile 5 already. It puts me between a rock and a hard place when it comes to deciding which OS to run on my hx4700, at least until I can afford the Samsung Mondi.
Windows Mobile 2003 SE and earlier have no decent Web browsers (about the best you're going to get is IBM J9 + Opera Mini, and getting that running in full VGA is a hassle), no new Skype client support, no new media players, and who knows what else.
If Windows Mobile 7 gets a focus on the finger, though, then they'll definitely need a clean break. Heck, it's even stated to have multi-touch as a REQUIREMENT. I just hope it doesn't come at the expense of the stylus.
This thought has occurred to me in the last few months. WM is nothing in the public eye due to a lack of press. There is a flip side to this though.
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Luckily it can be skinned so Samsung, HTC, Toshiba, etc... can spice it up, put their own spin on it and actually brand it with their phones. Once HTC created TouchFlo and the other companies picked up on this feature, WM became much more valuable to the phone manufacturers. It allows them create a brand identity without spending the time and money on creating a new OS. They get the tried and true while looking innovative. The hardware and interfaces will need to improve for WM to retake the market again.
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I've never used Android so no comment. The iphone is all about apps and advertising. The clones love it and that is a powerful market tool, but eventually it will have to graduate to a true multitasking system to hang on. Palm, Blackberry and WM are always adjusting when forced so I expect major improvements in what we get once the world economy changes course.
What I'm thinking is that Microsoft waited a little too long to start catching up. Maybe they didn't think the iPhone was a threat...or maybe they thought that HTC and others could do things like TouchFlo3d and TouchWiz and "cover up"...but as it stands now, we've had a few years, the iPhone has had several iterations, Android is releasing its second go-around of products, the Pre is now on stage one, and the "old guys" like WinMo, BlackBerry, S60, are left holding the bag.
6.5 is too little, too late. ZuneHD's interface is AMAZING...so if Microsoft thinks to put something like it with WM7, it won't be too little, but it may still be too late.
(As far as I'm concerned, Nokia and RIM are in the same boat, and they are actually doing worse at catching up than Microsoft with the OS or HTC with software around the OS and hardware)
From a public standpoint, WinMo has suicided its mindshare. This doesn't mean WinMo is technically worthless...but rather it's not in the spotlight.
i cannot believe some of you people actually prefer WM over Webos or the IPhone's OS.
i switched from a IPhone 3G to a TMO Tp2 wednesday(8/12) when it came out. i believe everything i read on here that WM is not that bad. now i know you all either have your head so deep in the sand you have no idea what other OS's are capable of or your not willing to admit it.
Opera 9.5 is good. but the scrolling is erratic. this is probably a product of Resistive touchscreens. so it's hard to fault the OS here. but even the built in IE has nicer scrolling (to me at least)
Random slow downs, in a call no less having Touchflo slow down to the point that the person you are sending a text to gets the text, AND replies to you before the OS even confirms the message was sent is insane.
lack of software, i know WM has more applications then any other phone OS. but where do i find them all? google works. but i spend hours searching for something decent. much less free. and then i have my personal information spread out all over the place on the web. great.
don't get me wrong. i LOVE the hardware on the Tp2. the keyboard is fantastic, the screen looks amazing and the battery life rocks. but WTF is going on with the software? i've spent more time fighting with the OS to accomplish what i want in the last few days then i spent in the previous 15 months playing with an IPhone.
hopefully WM6.5 and cooked roms bring something decent to the table. because this is just a train wreck.
/rant
I am in confusion in buying mobile phone between HTC HD2 and iPhone.
I have googled a lot and got many sites on its comparison. But unable to conclude which one to buy, since one site all it's praise for HTC and other for iPhone. As users will be the best person to suggest which one will be better to use in performance, user-friendliness and configuration wise.
com'on dude this isn't an issue of device more an issue of what operating system com'on iphone os in my opinion is second best mobile operating system after android i think personnaly it goes for me anyway 1. android 2. iphone joint 3rd winmo and blackberry and i can say all this because i have owned a device that runs every one of these operating system, but thats just for me if you want really customisable android and winmo are good if you want amazing communication get a blackberry, and if you want stupid amounts of apps get android or iphone.
michealjohn said:
I have googled a lot and got many sites on its comparison. But unable to conclude which one to buy, since one site all it's praise for HTC and other for iPhone.
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On this site it's all praise for HTC, so I doubt this will help you much either.
My recommendation: people who are sure they want an HD2 should buy an HD2. People who are not sure which they want should get an iPhone.
Or alternatively, put it this way: if you simply want a phone that works, get an iPhone. If you're the sort of person who enjoys spending several weeks researching tweaks, fixes, enhancements and customisations, and you are willing to accept the fact that the phone won't work terribly well while you're doing that, get an HD2.
I second that emotion...
ide say hd2 since im a apple hater.
un1ucky said:
ide say hd2 since im a apple hater.
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hahaha
+1
HD2 clearly has the SIGNIFICANTLY better hardware.
Nonetheless, honestly, its either you settle for already out of date with any WM6.5 phone or play the waiting game... Windows Phone Series 7 was just announced, but its not going to be available until the holidays... that's 10 months from now. So if you get an HD2, unless there are WM7 ROM leaks (which are unlikely given the hush environment thus far and the fact that the ZuneHD can't be yet be cracked), your stuck with WM6.5. Otherwise, iPhone 3GS, Palm Pre, Nexus One, Xperia X10 are all good choices as of those will definitely get all OS updates likely for the next few years.
Gor for the HD2 and have the full suppopert of XDA!
You have just entered a Church and asked the people which religion is better: Christianity or Buddhism?
The hardware of the HD2 is better, hands down. However, the software is quite different. I think none of the operating systems, Windows Mobile or iPhone OS, is better or worse, but they are very different and have very different strenghts and weaknesses.
I can give you some thoughts that may help you decide:
The iPhone is very easy to use, fluid and most of the time, 'just works'. However, this comes at a price: It is also very limited, in order to achieve its ease of use.
As long as you don't reach the limits, you're fine.
But when you reach the limits (e.g. you want to have information on the home screen, you want to multitask, send something via Bluetooth, use it as USB storage, customise ringtones, create playlists without iTunes and so on...) then things get complicated on the iPhone. You either can't do something at all, or you need to hack/jailbreak it or find workarounds for the shortcomings.
With Windows Mobile, you get everything out of the box. It can do pretty much everything and has all the basic and advanced features that the iPhone lacks.
However, just like the iPhone's ease of use, Windows Mobile's feature-richness comes at a price as well: It definitely is more complicated and doesn't always work instantly, if you want to install/change something.
Sense tries to make the basic things as easy to use as on the iPhone, and I have to say it does that quite well. But it's still not THAT easy.
On the other hand, if you want to go beyond the limits that Apple set on the iPhone, things often get MUCH more complicated than they are on Windows Mobile.
Conclusion:
If you don't reach the limits of your iPhone, i.e. if you're not missing anything that the iPhone can't do, then it will probably the better device for you, because then it's more easy to use and 'just works' for you.
If, however, you miss a bunch of features and you try to work around them on the iPhone (e.g. by jailbreaking it), then a Windows Mobile device, particulary the HTC HD2, is probably the better choice, because though not everything is as easy, you get everything out of the box. And you also get the better hardware.
The HTC HD2 also has a special place among the Windows Phones. Sense/TouchFlo has evolved over time and now the basic things (i.e. everything that the iPhone can do) are almost as easy on the HD2.
There are still exceptions, like installing software, but it has come so close that I personally think that the HD2 is the better choice for almost everyone, except for those who really never reach the limits of the iPhone.
Because, for giving up a bit of ease of use, you get tons of additional features, as well as the better hardware:
- 4.3" screen, much better camera, faster processor, more RAM...
- multitasking
- maximum customizability
- no iTunes required, you can connect it as storage device
- file explorer
- better notifications concept
- more professional, customizable home screen
- Bluetooth file transfers
- good Emulators like Morphgear
- and much more
Whether this is enough to make you accept the loss of ease of use compared to the iPhone is your choice.
Previously, the gap in ease of use has been much greater, that means you had to sacrifice a lot more in order to get all the features of Windows Mobile, but with the HD2 HTC has come so close that I think it's really the better choice for lots of people now.
However, everyone still has to decide for him/herself. I hope I could help.
my brother has the same question these days:
I recommend the HD2 for him. (or the Touch Pro 2 with QWERTY-Keyboard and a newer and better cooked ROM)
Why?
Because, his main usage is looking movies in the train, surfing the web, sometimes navigation and maybe sometimes a game.
-Usability is now thanks HTC Sense GUI never more a "problem". (almost equal for both mobiles, besides a poweruser)
-The sceen is very very huge, so he can type SMS, Texts, etc. very well with his big fingers, I'll install Touchpal or/and Tengo Thumb and/or Swype as additional keyboards. (one point for the HD2)
- The movies looks on this huge screen better than on Iphone (Point for the HD2)
- Same for the Navigation Software.
- Surfing the Web is with Opera almost the same, than with Iphones Safari. (and I'll install additional Skyfire, etc.) but on this high Resolution on the HD2 is the whole website without horizontal scrolling more common
- The HD2 is cheaper as the Iphone.
- I can support him, for example with a newer, faster, better ROM from the xda-devs, or support him to install another GUI, for example Schaps touchexperience, SPB Mobileshell, rlToday, Battery++, IFonez, etc. etc. etc. etc.
- He is not so interested in tons of apps. I give him years ago a HTC Magician / MDA Compact, with 100 Games (incl. Gameboy Color/Adv. Games for an emulator, and 200 programs/apps... ) but he realy used only 1% of them.