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Samsung F700 - slide out QWERTY keyboard killer or iPhone killer?

Finally some competion for HTC...
http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070208_0000320566#
Looks really sweet...
Now what should I choose next time... HTC Kaiser, Samsung F700, iPhone, SE Elena? The future looks bright hope my Wizard will last untill its here
:-F

Not really a HTC killer as it is not using any standard OS for the phone (eg it is not 'smart' phone). It will be more of a iPhone killer. More pictures and info here. The phone doesn't run WM5 or anything that 'is interesting', for geeks like us, so WMobile phones are save from this, but not iPhone. Consider iPhone will only be out 4 months later, this will definately be a killer for iPhone sales. And, consider that iPhone is targetting the trendy group, the **5MP auto-focus** camera will definately draw people away from iPhone.
Anyway, back to this Samsung phone. As it said, it uses 'Flash UI', which seems to be getting popular these days. Recently, I bang into a Prada phone news and wondering what a top designer firm's phone will be working on, and the answer is Macromedia Flash UI. Rather disappointing. However, consider these girls stuff usually look pretty without much 'internal' significant (eg. expensive girl watch with diamons all around usually runs on cheap battery based mechanism), Flash UI will do. More pictures here.. iPhone really need Apple and iPod supporters.
BTW, freffe, you may want to change the topic to "Samsung F700 - the iPhone killer??" to grab some attention

Maybee I don't really agree on your definition of a smartphone, I don't really care what OS it runs as long as it does what I want without to many bugs. Maybee I'm not as geeky as you are
Excepts for the geeks then, a lot of people will probably consider the F700 when looking for a big screen (slideout) QWERTY keyboard, which we all know is a great formfactor. It will be a competitor for Kaiser and the others... Hopefully that will lead to improvements in the HTC/WM area so the "real" geeks will benefit from this none the less
Yeah I love the formfactor of my Wizard, but the quality isn't really what i hoped for and WM5 still lacks a lot of the smartness and consistency that would make it a really great device. Compare the SMS and MMS applications, in SMS you can start typing letter and it will look it up in the addressbook, the MMS doesn't do that, you have to type phonenumber or click on the icon to go to the adressbook and select a recepient. And why doesn't it go into numeric mode automatically when you are typing in a field where it only makes sense to type numbers?
I'm not inteding to make this into a bash WM5 thread im just pointing out som annoyances, to make the point that competion is a good thing even though 'us geeks' wouldn't buy it.

The problem with non-standard OS on phone is that you can't have 3rd party software in it. I'm not sure (we will know soon though), this Samsung phone may be as good as other samsung phone that the only applications that you can use is via the Java runtime.
There is a saying, in the engineering deparment where I used to study, said something like this, "If a device doesn't have problems, it is doesn't have enough features". Which in a way is true. Consider normal non-smart phone that is relatively bug free, does do that it suppose to do. It is just that, it doesn't have enough features (for the geeks, I guess). For people who just wanted to use a phone (eg my gf), normal will do the job.
BTW, for less bugs with more features, I think you ought to try the Sony's P900 series PDA, which I heard is relatively stable on the Symbian OS, and (as all Sony stuff) well designed with very very very very very very tiny qwerty keyboard. Also, there are (or at least, used to be) some Motorolla phone that runs on Linux. Those are quite cool too. Try to google for Linux based phone, there are quite a number of them. They aren't much customizable, but they are stable.
There is also an option for not-much-function phone, the Sidekick. I'm not sure how bug free this phone is.

Why the Lag !

I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.

I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...

Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.

On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.

This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.

This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).

Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.

i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t

i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd

There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.

Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)

I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.

i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi

I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.

I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.

I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.

PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?

I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.

Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH

thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.

Will You Switch To the iPhone 2.0?

As June 9th is just around the corner, I am just curious who will switch over to the new 3G iPhone? This maybe the wrong place to ask since everyone is a WM user including myself, very happy with my Trinity, but just really curious as to what it will take for you to switch to the new iPhone. I used the current iPhone for just over a month and I must say that Safari, the screen, and the user interface is unmatched atm. It did lack many things but with the SDK launching it could be a whole new world. Just curious what your thoughts are...and just incase you are curious my iPhone was a lemon (long story) so it just heated up and broke. Since I unlocked it myself the warranty was voided.

Depends on whether it'll be able to record calls. If it can, I may dump my current HTC Oxygen (one of the VERY few HTC models to support recording) and switch to the iPhone,

no
maybe if i can handwrite on it

Another no here.
WM is more versatile for me, that and I dont like the dumbed down approach that Apple takes on all of its devices.
Also with the X1 around the corner, I don't think I'll be making the switch any time soon.

No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?

galaxys said:
No Way! WM rules!
But, let us know how it works out for u after a few months?
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It will need GPS for me to get it, and I don't want something that half the world may have...
It will probably be the Raphael or the X1 for me.

dumbed-down is a little unfair. The approach of the Iphone is to make things simple so that everyone can enjoy it. I'm used to Winmo and I'm used to Symbian but there is a definite draw to the Iphone's sleek, intuitive and WELL THOUGHT OUT system. What's WRONG with simple if all the functionality is there? Would you not take all the features of Winmo if they were put into a simpler package? Or is it better to have everything bogged down in menus?
Granted it's not there yet, but with external GPS support at least the Iphone could become serious competition - people aren't apeing its ideas for nothing.
The SDK release has seen a huge surge in development for the Iphone: it has to be seen to be believed.
I may get an Iphone; I probably won't but it crosses my mind occasionally. At the very least the introduction of the Iphone has made Windows Mobile users' experience a HELL OF A LOT BETTER as Opera 9.5 and Iphone-mimicing systems such as Touchflo prove.

I'm a proud WM owner here however I do own the first iPhone (don't use it much) and I propably will buy the iPhone 2.0 but I doubt I will use it as a primary phone. I'm a bit of a gadget freak and like to handle the devices myself rather then read about them but with all the things I can do with the WM devices I doubt I will switch to the iPhone.

I'm too dependent on 3rd party apps as references, so NO I won't switch at the moment.
...

Lol! Great poll! WinMo all the way for me!
I'll keep my device and continue to trump the iPhone users with my device, even if it is upgraded, I'll just upgrade more!

GPS was one of my "must have" for a phone and if the 2nd Gen iPhone has it, it will definitely be worth looking at. It took a very long time for WM to get GPS to be pretty much standard and if it only took Apple one year to put GPS on then they are really listening to the average consumers. IMHO I highly doubt there will be built in GPS or A2DP. Only time will tell.

I once thought that if iPhone has GPS, if it has ability to take in spare battery, if it has a slot for microSDHC, if it has 7.2Mb/s download speed, then I would definitely switch over. But then I think again, and said, no, I still won't.
The first reason is I have so many very attractive third party software that would only run on win mo platform and not iPhone platform.
The second reason is that some of the winmo phone are already having close to iPhone user interface anyway. HTC diamond, HTC Raphael, Sony Xperia X1, just to name a few.
The third reason is that I'm a person who get bored with the same phone very quickly, no matter how complete it is, how user friendly it is, and how slick it is. I just need to change the way it looks and feel every now and then without actually changing the phone itself. Winmo is the only platform that lets me do this. I change ROM, I change what gets shown on the today screen, I change the resolution (96 to 128, to 192), giving me a feeling that it is a completely new phone every now and then. I keep swaping in and out my weather program, my youtube player, my file explorer. I spend considerable of my freetime looking for better and newer third party applications, and this hobby is additive almost. If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
In some ways iPhone is ahead of the pack, but it is way way behind in many other respect and is playing a catch up game. Sorry, but this is true. It is understandable because it is still new in this field.

I wont upgrade to iphone as I dont like apples 'Locked Down' approach to everything... if they want more dominance then they need to open it up... not just by offering applications through itunes.

I'd need full synchronization with MS Offce, similar to what you get from Activesync before considering iphone.

No, not at all. Until Apple realise that "youtube" isn't important enough to warrant its own menu icon then their devices won't appeal to me! I like the versitality of Windows Mobile devices

eaglesteve said:
If I switch to iPhone, I guess I'd be happy with it only for a few days, and then it'd be just boredom after that.
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You hit it on the head right there, my friend. I get bored and change things up constantly...I don't know if I could handle being stuck with the same screens forever.

For my work (techy for large manufacturing corp.) I have both an iPhone (beta 2 firmware) and Treo 750 (wm6 to 6.1 depending on how I feel that day/week) and while the iPhone does some multimedia stuff better, but from a total end-user experience the Treo is a much better device. I however, have to believe that the next "true" incarnation of the iPhone (this 3g release not being it) will be much closer to the "desktop" experience. When they do "open" the device to end user customization (i.e. installing apps, fine tuning device behavior) in addition to adding basic functionality (e.g. cut and paste) and continued in-roads to exchange they will then have a product to compete against. I will give Apple the nod that they certainly raised the bar with this 1st attempt - look at all the threads here trying to duplicate the home page and all the advances in the touch ui that have since taken place. Granted this may have eventually come about, but the iPhone has to be given credit for "encouraging" more fervent development.
But since that is just a "hunch" right now, I will only hope my employer gives me the 3g upgrade just so I don't have to suffer through edge any longer. But really am looking forward to seeing the Diamond and/or Raphael in the states. What I have seen of the UI is just brilliant and looks to have raised the bar I earlier mentioned a couple of notches higher still.
Cheers!

sure, iPhone is an eye candy, but other than that. It is really a flashy toy to lug around. For functionality, I would stick with either Diamond or Sonyericsson X1.

ir the iphone had third party applications allowing a wider margin of customization, gps, tv.............. maybe id get it as a plaything or a pet for my Sprint Touch lol but not my main phone fo sho, it looks nice and flashy but thats the case, its designed for dumb pple that dont know much about modern functuality in a phone and lets themselves be seduced of the looks and flashy interface leading them to believe that its Gods phone lol, makes me laugh... anyway id admit that i might get it but not as my main phone

think i will be getting it will still use WM tho i'll have both i just liek the way the iphone looks and feels nice and sexy

HTC Fuze vs iPhone

I am about to get a new phone and it's down to these two. I'm pretty familiar with the iPhone. It's nice, but doesn't do many of the things I would like, plus I can't stand the thought of a locked down device. What I do like is the great internet experience and the speed of the UI. I have been looking at the Fuze for a while and have some questions.
What GPS options are you using?
Any way to remove the AT&T junk?
If I get a cooked ROM (I barely know what that is right now), does it void the warranty? And can I download the original ROM to reflash back to original?
Any way to lock the touchscreen and front buttons to avoid accidentally answering the phone?
Did someone reallyfigure out how to turn off the PTT button?
What do you not like about the Fuze?
Thanks in advance!

HTC WM6.1 phone vs. iPhone
I have both HTC phone and Iphone...
The iphone is a great device, if you are a teenager and most of your use is text message buddies, play games, surf the net etc. I would certainly enjoy one like it if I am on vacation in the US. The iPhone is locked to AT&T only, so if you are going overseas, like I do from time to time, your iphone becomes either a brick, or a $$$ hungry device if you dare use it and pay roaming.
My 14 years old enjoys my iphone a lot. It's cool. it's fun, it looks good, and it is important when you are 14...
Now if you buy it for business and for connectivity with an office, then the unlocked cooked roms are the answer. Yes, warranty is an issue if you use a cooked ROM, but there is always a way to put back the AT&T stock ROM. So unless you have failed the phone in a manner one can not re flash it, it is not a big deal. Flashing the phone is quite easy and the wiki on this forum is very helpful. For your GPS questions- you can use TomTom or iGO. Assuming you buy them, there is no monthly charge after. By using a cooked ROM the AT&T junk is no longer there, and as far as applications to load, well, it's a WM phone. Connectivity to OFFICE package is superb, and there isn't an application in the PC world that you can't find a PPC version of it (almost, anyways).
Locking screen and keys is simple, with high 3D graphics. Look around on the forum and you will find few.
PTT button works IF you pay AT&T for the servie. No one I know uses it. We all reprogramm this hard key to do something else. I don't think there is a real need for a PTT service (Nextel like) unless it is a company phone and there are a bunch of guys wanting their own channel of communications.
HTC , by definition, came up with a bunch of cool phones. Very reliable, long lasting, with nifty features. The good news is WM7 is around the corner, so it is going to be even better...
Enjoy your new phone, whatever you choose to have. this post is just one opinion, but you ask an unbiased opinion in the WM forum... none here is really crazy about the iphone...

Thanks. I'm a long way from 14. I will use it for some business (anyone know how to get Lotus Notes on this thing?), but mostly as a phone, some texting, some multimedia, personal email, and some internet surfing. Pretty mixed bag. This will be my first smartphone, so there will be some learning curve. I'm not a big fan of the iPhone, but it's more of distrust of how Apple handles things and the total loackdown they have on the device. We have several Apple products in our house, the wife loves them. Me, not so much. Nice stuff, I just prefer more choices in how I use my hardware.

if you are wanting to customize like you say you are, then yes you will want the touch pro. you will just need time to sit down and do some reading.
Yes you can remove att's bloatware, you will just need to flash a new rom.
ROM means read only memory it basically is just everything they will stay on your phone when you hard reset. A clean version of a rom would be something you would get directly from microsoft. But lets say you by a laptop from dell or hp, they will give you all kinds of crap that doesn't really have to do with the operating environment. You will get dell-ware or hp-ware.
Basically by flashing a rom you just have a choice in what you want on your ppc, there are all kinds of flavors of roms everything from the bare minimals of the phone to even run (super-clean) or a multimedia rich rom (there are even roms based around programs like manilla, throttlelauncher, htc home, ect)
Yes flashing a rom will void your warranty if its not an official Rom, but you can revert back to send in for warranty purposes.
The touch pro has an accelerometer (motion sensor). just one reason to go with the fuze over the x1.
Customize, customize, customize. Thats what we all do with our phones. My friends tells me i seem to have a new phone everytime i see them. All of this just takes some reading and may look daunting at first but you will get the hang of it quick enough.
let me know when you pick up your touch pro if you need some help on where to start.
----One more thing windows mobile7 is a little way out but wm6.5 should be out soon (which will be almost windows mobile 7 minus integration of zune)

Coming from a fuze owner...
I know this thread is somewhat old, but it's the third result if you search Google for "iphone vs. htc fuze," and I'd like to add my two cents for anyone else who has to make this choice.
I recently used my upgrade and got a Fuze. Before doing this, I did my research and read the comments about it being slow and clunky with the stock ROM, but that you had the ability to change almost anything with cooked roms, different applications, etc. I'm a pretty tech savvy guy, so I didn't think I would mind. After weeks of trying to decide between the Fuze and the iPhone (with some consideration of the bb Bold), I sucked it up and got the Fuze.
I'm somewhat happy about my decision. Hardware-wise, the phone is amazing. The slide out QWERTY keyboard is awesome (although the keys are a little crammed), the phone looks slick IMO, and the weight is decent; it feels like it could take a little abuse. The camera is nice, the reception (even stock) is nice, etc.
Software-wise, the phone is quite clunky. I know it's been said to death, but Windows Mobile is an awful operating system. Some of the features that I like (e.g., the file explorer, 'right clicking,' and text selection) are wonderful; however, WM6.1 is not designed for touch. TouchFLO3D is nice, but it's just the outer coating. Once you touch the screen to read more texts, go to the file explorer, etc., however, you have to enter WM6.1 again.
I have also heard comments about there being a ton of applications for Windows Mobile. This is true, however, now that the iPhone is out, there has been a HUGE push to develop apps for that platform (e.g., better AIM clients, Facebook mobile, online banking, etc). The applications are in one place and easier to access (app store) and are more user-friendly/fun. Certain programs are also integrated better with the iPhone (e.g., Google Maps)
Opera Mobile (for internet browsing) is alright on the Fuze. It's better than the options for Blackberrys, but the iPhone has it completely beat in this department. Many sites don't work without a little tweaking (e.g., Google News), and some sites don't work at all (Bank of America online banking). I did notice that some sites will work if you switch over to Internet Explorer, but that's a pain.
I feel like HTC completely wasted their hardware on this. It would be an excellent phone if it ran on Android or even on their own OS.
The only type of person I can recommend this phone to is a business user who sends out a lot of emails, but doesn't like the Blackberry style keyboard.
If you're a business user and don't mind, get a Blackberry. It's the corporate standard. Even Obama has one!
If you are:
a consumer
a mac-user
someone who wants the best mobile internet experience
or just someone who wants to have fun with their phone right off the bat, and not have to completely tweak it
get the iPhone, G1 (another phone made by HTC), or Palm Pre when it comes out.
I don't completely hate the phone, I just dislike it enough to suck up the $20 restocking fee and get a new phone (probably an iphone).

I see how old this is... but after i got the red light of death on my tilt and its out of warranty... 376 bucks is a waste of cash for a known problem and crappy battery life. I thought about the Fuze but HTC pissed me off. I'm gonna get the iPhone hopefully it has a better battery so i dont have to charge it every night like my tilt! if not ill go old school and get a rzr... lol... thank you XDA it was fun while it lasted and i got alot of help along with ;earning really cool things about wm 6.1... peace

I am not using the Fuze but I am using the Kaiser, my wife uses the Hermes, and all our kids have the I-Phone. I borrow their I-Phones from time to time. Here are my observations.
I-Phone
The I-Phone is very slick. The best thing about the I-Phone is its size, weight, the size of the screen, and the simplicity of use. There's not a slicker more carefully designed phone out there. Anyone can use it with little trouble. It's very dependable. You ask then, "Why aren't you using an I-Phone"?
Windows Mobile Phone
I'm not using the I-Phone for several reasons. I'm a businessman. I have literally thousands of contacts on my phone. I can access them more quickly on my Kaiser than I can on the I-Phone. The Kaiser's QWERTY is flat out faster than typing on the screen (although one of my sons can type nearly as fast as I can on his I-Phone because of his thin fingers).
When I need information, I need it fast. When I'm in a meeting someone needs to find an address or anything on the web, I beat the I-Phone users to the punch all the time. Time is money.
I do speed tests with both the Kaiser and the I-Phone. The results on the two types of phones from our home are about the same on dslreports.com. However, I can get to the information I want faster with IE than I can with Safari. Yes, Safari on the I-Phone is great but I have to let the page load then blow up a portion of the page and move it around. This takes time.
3G signal is another area where the HTC phone beats the I-Phone. The HTC phones seem to pick up 3G signals in more places than the I-Phone. This may change as I-Phones improve. Just my observations.
I love the integration of Word, Excel, Power Point, etc, with WM6.1 It works very well.
There are still many things the I-phone cannot do.
1) There's no cut and paste. Yea, I know it's coming. But how well will it work.
2) It cannot handle adobe .pdf files. I get these sent to me all the time in emails. They're almost always business related. I can read them and respond quickly where ever I am.
3) There's no stereo bluetooth so one has to look like the retards Apple shows on its commercials bouncing around to the music wearing wired earphones. I use my stereo bluetooth headsets all the time with my HTC phones. I can listen to music and not miss any important calls. I can walk all over my office with the phone in my office and still get calls.
4) I can use my HTC phones on several networks in the U.S. and elsewhere.
5) There's no removable memory or batteries. The EU will force Apple to make I-Phones with removable batteries. But I still like being able to keep certain data on a storage card.
6) The charger the I-Phone uses is proprietary. I like fact that the HTC devices use a standard USB charger.
In conclusion, the I-Phone is definitely a game changing device. It's a great device for kids, the elderly, and those who won't or cannot become computer savvy. Eventually, the I-phone may catch up to the HTC devices to the point I'd consider one.
The fact of the matter is that the HTC devices are more powerful devices and are especially more powerful for the business user.

I'm getting tired and disappointed of WM

Ok, where to start? Well from the beginning of my short smartphone experience. My first phone was a Motorola A1000 with UIQ. The phone where not as good from the beginning but after some turns with the ROM cookers it became a pretty descent phone. It had GPS, a great app for mp3 (PowerMP3) and for that time an Opera webbrowser that worked on the most common sites.
Ofcourse the webbrowsing was slow and the GPS took ages to get a fix and the sound from PowerMP3 started to glitch when I had it in the background and did other stuff. But hey, I accepted it because it started to get old.
So, anyway. When the Xperia was annonced I found it as a great replacement. It was a smaler phone, it had full qwety, highres screen, wlan, gps, radio and finally 3.5mm jack. A friend had the first tytn phone (my first contact with XDA) that i thought was a bit slow. But still, it was an old phone and with the specs of the xperia I thought that WM would run smoth as butter.
Now, I have had the phone for 6 mounths and the honymone is over. Ofcourse the ROM cookers here have done an amazing job to speed it up. But still. Sometimes the phone is less responsive than my old UIQ phone. There is still no fully working webbrowser, the GPS does somtimes have problem to get a fix (not as long as 10 minutes though) and loading times eg. for showing pictures, open menues is the same as on my UIQ or worse.
I am getting tired of the chronic statment soon... the next version of Opera, when skyfire is ready, the next version of windows mobile, the next radio or ROM upgrade, the next version of manila etc.
And still, phones with weaker hardware is working smoth as silk with ROMs from the manufacturers like samsung, Apple or OS like Android. Why can't MS make an OS like that? It dosen't have to be "cool" as iPhone. But why not make it run smooth with less loadingtime?
As it is now, I can't lend my phone to a friend if he/she whan't to test it or browse a webpage without having them to wonder why nothing happens if they press this or that because of the loading times. "How could you pay that much for this phone?" And, no, I can't answer that anymore.
Ok, now I have let off some steam. And I havn't eaven mentioned the worthless casing on the phne that have cracked for the second time... ohh, now I have
Peace over and out

I wrote almost the same words today on a Dutch forum. I have my Xperia now for about 7 months. Out of the box it's a piece of sh.t. Thanks to the cooks it's an acceptable phone now, but my next phone will be no WM phone anymore. Thinking of buying the new Iphone when it comes out. Better/faster hardware doesn't say anything when WM is the OS.
Iphone here I come. If you can't beat them join them...

Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff

take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile. When I walk into work people with iPhones and BB's ask me why my Fuze or my Tilt looked more appealing than others they have seen. Simple answer, "I got no luck in the game of popularity therefore I spent over a year learning of the capabilities and the love what goes into windows mobile, outside of microsoft". Personally, I think they will never understand but when you show them easy written applications like "positions" and pdf reader "hustler" or "playboy" magazine, for some reason they believe you are a porn star, cause its that real...
edit: actually iPhones in Boston are played out so if you have a nice looking Tilt or Fuze it will get you ass. However, you may have to pay for an expensive hotel and some cheap ass beer too go along but that is how i roll. Nobody stops my floss.

Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.

I could'nt say that my experience with winmo was bad. I had always enjoyed tweaking, ROM flashing, looking and exploring for new and better application software, trying out all kinds of different user interfaces, playing with registry, etc. I had always thought of winmo as the best thing since slice bread - until I tried out iPhone. To be honest, I had always brushed off iPhone as just a toy, as something that I would give up a week after owning it, etc. Had always been annoyed with people arguing that iPhone is better than winmo device.
Then, one day, an XDA-developer forumner whom I respected a lot made a post saying that he had already switched to iPhone and has never looked back. That was when I first took notice, and started to research more seriously about what iPhone could do. I thought all along that I would have to give up all the cherished applications on my Athena if I switch, so I first spent time finding out what applications are available on iPhone. At that time, I could not find any credible solution on GPS navigation and Office document editing. I also thought that I'm too addicted to my Tengo software keyboard to want to give up. In addition, I read a lot of posts saying there are serious 3G reception issues. So, based on that, I decided to buy a Touch HD instead.
I was estatic with Touch HD and made recommendation to a few person who too made the purchase. It was'nt perfect for sure. The response time was inconsistent at best, music playing stutters, album was slow and often causes freeze, camera capture taking too long to save and come back, picture is poor under poor lighting condition, etc. But I was still perfectly happy, perhaps because over the years, I had developed such a high tolerance for imperfection.
The iPhone purchase was probably an impulsive purchase because it was selling cheap. To be honest, the first day when I used it, I did'nt like it too much. Many things I did'nt know how to do. Did'nt like not being able to multitask, copy and paste, no video, no MMS, and the user interface looked set in concrete and unchangeable.
But then, I learned to jailbreak the phone. It was difficult in the begining because I did'nt know of a good forum to get help from, after all, I'm a winmo and XDA person, right? After that, I'm now really happy with iPhone.
- at the system level, my iPhone multitask, I can do global cut and copy, send MMS, do video recording, customise my springboard (desktop) to my heart's content, easily get music/movies without any restriction whatsoever .
-In general, my replacement application programs are far far better than the equivalent that I had on my HD.
- I can find lots of useful applications (don't listen to those who tell you that you only get iBeer and iFart from Applestore) from both the applestore and Cydia store. Many of those programs are simply not available on the winmo platform.
- VOIP calls that I make with my iPhone is far clearer than with my HD. No echo. No breaking up of voice. No need to use headset.
- All my videos play smoothly now. No more synchronization problem between video and voice. No more dropped frame.
- Camera captures really fast, including in poor light. It does'nt have autofocus and flash though, so this is still an area that iPhone should improve on. On the other hand, the camera softwares are excellent. You can change the contrast, exposure, and sharpen the picture after they're taken, and this compensate somewhat for the poor picture.
- I like the way it notifies me of any update to my applications, and they are all free. Even if I had previously installed and deleted an application, it tells me that I had already made the purchase (even the free ones are considered purchased) and would let me download it again free (even if now it is no longer free).
- Love the responsiveness. Even with very tiny area, such as the little link on XDA site that brings me to the first unread post, could be easily activated without zooming it.
- Consistent user interface is another really appealing aspect of it. On my HD, I had programs from Vito Technology, Resco, SPB, and they all look different. Some have full screen and have their own finger friendly keyboard, some still use stylus. Not a serious issue, but it was really good to have consistent UI.
What I still don't like about iPhone?
- I don't like the fact that I cannot change battery in the middle of the day. With my HD, I carry a spare battery because one isn't enough for me.
- We still have no credible GPS software on the iPhone, at least not outside US. In US, G-Map on iPhone looks like a pretty good GPS software that works without internet connection, but outside US, there is'nt any that can operate without internet connection. Even if there is, I am not willing to use anything not as good as TomTom 7, which among other things give me overspeeding, red light and speed camera warnings. I still use my HD to run TomTom, Garmin and Mapking (because TomTom does not have maps in all the countries that I visit).
I had been keeping an eye on Palm Pre and Google Phone. Google phone could be manufactured by any hardware manufacturer so in that aspect it has a better chance of becoming popular amoung the hardware suppliers at least, unlike iPhone which nobody else are allowed to manufacture. However, the applications on both Google Phone and Palm Pre are too limited at the moment. Also, because of the absence of control and openness, I think the user interface on google phone is going to varry greatly from application to application, so you will not have the same consistency as iPhone application. Palm pre's inabiilty to operate as a world phone bugs me, in addition to the fact that it is still the first generation phone, which is bound to have much unresolved issues.
WM7 is of course not to be discounted completely. It is supposed to be revolutionary. Like using the camera to detect your hand gesture (wonder what it is like to operate the device in the dark and impact on battery though. Also wondering how would devices without front camera deal with it.). However, application development would have much to catch up. The biggest obstacle I think is the fact that MS tries to make the OS backward compatible. There are just too many different hardware out there by now. Pity the developers on winmo now. If they develop anything now, it would have to be redone when WM7 is available. I get the feeling that many are developing for iPhone for now, hence the explosion of software availability there.
I hope this thread is a place to share information, not to bash winmo in anyway. So, let's be courteous to each other and refrain from putting down winmo platform.

Paitor said:
Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can do lots of modding with iPhone too, and much of those modding are not available with WM. You can even make it look like a PC if you so incline. But you must jailbreak it first in order to do it.

redbandana said:
take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me, the more time I spend with iPhone, the more I grow to like it. It is amazing to find how customizable the phone is. It is also amazing to find that one single button in iPhone could so easily let you switch between active tasks, terminate program, launch most recently used programs, and with the power button do screen capture, do soft reset, etc.
Not all applications are entertainment in nature. You can get serious medical applications, enterprise resource planning type applications (including SAP and Quickbook), office productivity applications (Pocket Informant on iPhone is far more useable than the winmo version), etc.
The only really lacking area is GPS software, but that's likely to change with firmware 3.0 that removes the artificial restriction apple set.
Otherwise, WM applications are falling behind that for iPhone. There are many reasons why this is happening. Some winmo developers have discussed the reasons for this on this very interesting thread here:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html

jeffla said:
Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.

This is an article related to the current thread that makes some interesting reading.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10151228-82.html

Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.

eaglesteve said:
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.

jeffla said:
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you can. You can also name the music file anyway you want rather than having it renamed by ITune. The music file could be copied to your own sub directory.

Paitor said:
Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Paitor,
One factor that puts iPhone on the negative light is the fact that no hardware vendor other than apple through Foxconn is allowed to make the handset. This is both good and bad. Applications are easier to test and bugs more easily fixed. Also, having just one company controlling it nobody could pass the bug to another company if the graphic accelerator does'nt work (wink wink). You also don't have the risk of undersized hardware specification and slow device. On the other hand you don't get lots of choices in handware specifications such as those you've outlined.
Actually iPhone hardware contains the FM receiver all along, but disabled at the moment.
I believe Tom Tom will soon be available once OS 3.0 is released.