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First of all I would like to say many thanks to all the developers in this site. I think you all have the talent and know how of making a plain windows phone into something incredible. My thanks to the maker of energy rom, and all those fantastic developers. Helping to make this comunity greater and better. I am going to miss you all. Yes I have moved into the iPhone community.
Let Me just tell you all this is my opinion and yours counts as well. I have been a very avid windows mobile user, but more so an htc fan then any. I write this thread to let you all know of my findings from switching to an apple device. with that said I also would like to emphisize that my findings are based off of device and not network.
iPhone vs windows mobile
*landscape supported in both
*copy and paste supported in both thanks to OS 3.0
*user interface- on iPhone comes built in with a nice OS
-on htc nice as well but customizable. Thanks to xda forum
*physical keyboard- only built in to some htc devices
-on iPhone does not include a physical keyboard but I feel this product in terms of progress is moving foward faster. So what I mean is this product does not include a physical keyboard you can purchase one. But the soft keys included are nice with a little practice. Even thow landscape is not supported on most device but it is on the most use full apps.
*productivity- email, document editing, mms, tethering, auto spell check,
WM- supports all of these except spell check is an extra step
iPhone - supports email, doesn't come with word editing apps but i have purchased docs to go which I like and will allow me to get free updates.($5) mms thanks to mms not supported thanks to AT&T but it will by summer( check iPhone alley for up to date news or engadget. Tethering again thanks to AT&T no sir again to be announced, auto spell check is default and a plus since o generally suck in spelling.
* customizble- supported on both via xda and jailbreak, I still like the OS so I don't need to until I get bored but I'm pretty happy now.
*UI
- wm/not very user friendly but customizable thanks to xda. Hope fully windows gets the clue.
-iphone/ very user friendly , auto spell check on the fly, dual touch, browser a plus still waiting on firefox but iPhone browser is much faster. No flash support this is a downside the the iPhone. The text magnifier is a handy tool. Easy access tools like app store handy and comes with pre approved handy tools.(and free apps ass well)
*multimedia on both is pretty equal
*gaming is a dead blow away based off of amount of developers and screen size On the iPhone , dual touch helps in dramatic amounts.
My thoughts- altough the iPhone is not the best choice for everyone. There are pros and cons for both device. This being a WM forum I expect "flamming" but instead write why you stay with wm(not htc related because I love xda and htc and don't wish to sell my fuze) i find apples iPhone is moving slot faster progress wize in terms of when they started and what it has accomplished to this date. Windows made a big mistake delaying development on windows 7.0 OS. 2010 just shows they where not ready. Thank you all
My 2 cents on user friendliness.
I would think, from a perspective of someone who likes tweaking, that wm is much more user friendly since it allows me to customize it to my heart's content rather than jailbreaking the thing to even do basic things like changing the background to every page.
The iphone is more idiot proof than user friendly. In apple's classic style, anything that provides the user to customize the system is completely locked down unless hacked. what you can use is what they allow you to, not what you want to.
multi-touch is nice and is something i wish more smartphones will adopt in the future but I don't feel like it's a "game changer" especially gaming on a smartphone is not something that's that fancy. there are plenty counterpart apps for both OS that are mirrors of each other, like the light saber, tetris, bubble breaker, etc etc.
oh i forgot to mention, tethering... it is possible for the fuze to tether thanks to some of the resident geniuses of XDA who saved many of us from having to pay 30-50 bucks extra for tethering. the iphone's tethering is still in the process since I highly doubt att will let them get away with it for free or atleast without some haggling between apple and att.
my conclusion to this is that the review is good, i just don't approve of apple's take on "customization" (or lack thereof).
mputtr said:
My 2 cents on user friendliness.
I would think, from a perspective of someone who likes tweaking, that wm is much more user friendly since it allows me to customize it to my heart's content rather than jailbreaking the thing to even do basic things like changing the background to every page.
The iphone is more idiot proof than user friendly. In apple's classic style, anything that provides the user to customize the system is completely locked down unless hacked. what you can use is what they allow you to, not what you want to.
multi-touch is nice and is something i wish more smartphones will adopt in the future but I don't feel like it's a "game changer" especially gaming on a smartphone is not something that's that fancy. there are plenty counterpart apps for both OS that are mirrors of each other, like the light saber, tetris, bubble breaker, etc etc.
oh i forgot to mention, tethering... it is possible for the fuze to tether thanks to some of the resident geniuses of XDA who saved many of us from having to pay 30-50 bucks extra for tethering. the iphone's tethering is still in the process since I highly doubt att will let them get away with it for free or atleast without some haggling between apple and att.
my conclusion to this is that the review is good, i just don't approve of apple's take on "customization" (or lack thereof).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for you input, I agree on customizabilty. This is basic stuff. It's your phone you should be allowed to personalize it by default. What I can do with out jail break is add my own short cuts off the web and changes some of my back ground. My friend has managed to change his icons to a Laker theme, and mms enabled on his phone. Other have managed a vista ultima desktop with video background. Which to me is cool but I doubt I find it usefull productive wize. Gaming on the iPhone is different. I encourage all to take some time to YouTube developed games, ping pong, archers, brickbreaker revollusion, tap tap revenge 2, stick wars , and ifighter. This is thanks to multi touch. But I thank you for your input. And tethering is enabled for free you just have to click a link in iPhone alley. And this is money saving as well. Thank you and more should write this will let Windows mobile step up their game.
Being a long time windows mobile and long time iPhone user, here is my take on this:
iPhone is fun, smooth and pretty nifty - for someone who doesn't rely on a device to get stuff done.
WM is a slower, sometimes ugly beast that gets **** done. It may not be the prettiest but if I need it to do something, it does it.
Case and point - I manage 10 separate business units and I rely on notifications to remind me about things. The iPhone just doesn't cut it, even with its 3.0 upgrade. Without a rock solid time specific task function/reminding system that can be snoozed, it's worthless for me.
What the iPhone does better:
Web - hands down it is a better experience
Email - Again, much better IMO on the iPhone
Note taking - iPhone stomps all over WM here especially with Evernote. The newest Evernote is absolutely incredible on the iPhone.
Pictures - My fuze is much better in this area and I don't want to buy the newest iPhone to get auto zoom.
3rd party programs - iPhone may have 50,000 apps, but WM has the apps "I" need to run my business, at least at this point.
I hemmed and hawed about it for a few weeks but I gave my iPhone to my 17 year old son who doesn't need a business class device and I got an iPod touch. I can still have nifty web browsing on the go and most of the benefits of apps like Evernote.
WM is still king in my mind but there are some things that would push it over the top in regards to the Apple offerings:
1. Capacitive screen - It's amazing and makes the resistive touch of the normal PDA's seem old and outdated.
2. Give us a Word/Excel/PP Viewer program in addition to the damn programs included that rip the formatting to shreds of anything remotely complex that we open with them. Granted, there are other programs that have better compatability that the built in office apps, but come on MS, Office is YOUR program!
3. This is for hardware vendors - Get your **** together and actually include driver support so your devices look and act as smoothly as the iPhone. I have a fuze that has more memory and a faster processor (in MHz only I know) than the iPhone but it's a dog. Gimme some smooth eye candy! I look at this damn device for hours per day, at least make it more enjoyable! MS needs to step up to the plate here and realize that the 3rd party hardware vendors are the ones causing the problems. Make them have to certify devices in the areas of performance and appearance before they launch.
4. Put more than 5 people on task to put an upgraded mobile operating system out. I am embarrassed for MS that they would do something like that. I don't care if they are the best of the best, mobile computing is the future and you guys are missing the boat by such a large margin it isn't even funny in the areas of usability and looks.
-Asbestos
iPhone vs WM
I agree with asbestos, if I need a real fancy music player, I'll put stickers on my "work" WM Touch Pro. My Touch Pro does WORK just fine.
I'll pay for my TP with SPB Mobile Shell 3.0, before given a fancy music player.
Someday, somebody will realize you can play music and videos on WM. Granted Windows Media Player sucks. But there are other multimedia apps.
What I will yield to Apple is our MS developers as a whole SUCK compared to the tons of great apps being created daily for iPhone, that could be made for WM. SOmebody needs to tell WM dev's to just sit down and copy every app they make. Cause WM is not the best in ingenuity.
My two cents,
JWB
Stickers ?!? Really?
That's the most educated piece of mine you can come up with. Better yet how about you mension konomi or any other great media player and recomend windows come with a built in finger friendly and eye candy friendly UI. Yes windows does need to look into developers from this site to make their products better.
Business over entertainment
asbestos said:
Being a long time windows mobile and long time iPhone user, here is my take on this:
iPhone is fun, smooth and pretty nifty - for someone who doesn't rely on a device to get stuff done.
WM is a slower, sometimes ugly beast that gets **** done. It may not be the prettiest but if I need it to do something, it does it.
Case and point - I manage 10 separate business units and I rely on notifications to remind me about things. The iPhone just doesn't cut it, even with its 3.0 upgrade. Without a rock solid time specific task function/reminding system that can be snoozed, it's worthless for me.
What the iPhone does better:
Web - hands down it is a better experience
Email - Again, much better IMO on the iPhone
Note taking - iPhone stomps all over WM here especially with Evernote. The newest Evernote is absolutely incredible on the iPhone.
Pictures - My fuze is much better in this area and I don't want to buy the newest iPhone to get auto zoom.
3rd party programs - iPhone may have 50,000 apps, but WM has the apps "I" need to run my business, at least at this point.
I hemmed and hawed about it for a few weeks but I gave my iPhone to my 17 year old son who doesn't need a business class device and I got an iPod touch. I can still have nifty web browsing on the go and most of the benefits of apps like Evernote.
WM is still king in my mind but there are some things that would push it over the top in regards to the Apple offerings:
1. Capacitive screen - It's amazing and makes the resistive touch of the normal PDA's seem old and outdated.
2. Give us a Word/Excel/PP Viewer program in addition to the damn programs included that rip the formatting to shreds of anything remotely complex that we open with them. Granted, there are other programs that have better compatability that the built in office apps, but come on MS, Office is YOUR program!
3. This is for hardware vendors - Get your **** together and actually include driver support so your devices look and act as smoothly as the iPhone. I have a fuze that has more memory and a faster processor (in MHz only I know) than the iPhone but it's a dog. Gimme some smooth eye candy! I look at this damn device for hours per day, at least make it more enjoyable! MS needs to step up to the plate here and realize that the 3rd party hardware vendors are the ones causing the problems. Make them have to certify devices in the areas of performance and appearance before they launch.
4. Put more than 5 people on task to put an upgraded mobile operating system out. I am embarrassed for MS that they would do something like that. I don't care if they are the best of the best, mobile computing is the future and you guys are missing the boat by such a large margin it isn't even funny in the areas of usability and looks.
-Asbestos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my friend you are a perfect example to why windows is best for you.
I'm not saying and nor do I feel you are saying that I beleive the iPhone is better then a fuze. I beleive there is no such thing as an iPhone killer simply because every phone is built for a specific user.
In this case the user is a business user. I can't imagine typing countless emails and documents simply by using the soft keys altough I have seen some impressive typing on the iPhone. Not everyone is talented enough to move like the do. But I find my self getting faster each day. The built in keyboard is an advantage that I don't have on the iPhone. What weighed in my mind was windows mobile first came out in 1975 I beleive... And it has years of experience over the iPhone. The iPhone has 3 years in the market yet development for this device has excelled. What I beleive is windows took it's customers for granted said here is this product enjoy it but never develops after that? Windows 6.1 windows 6.5 windows 7.0 ? These are all slow developed UI. Windows give your consumers what they want not honey combs. Come out with 7.0 already.
Why does everyone who goes to an iPhone write one of these long, stupid, and annoying "goodbye" posts justifying their reasons for going to an iPhone? Just sell your HTC, get an iPhone, and go away. It is that easy.
My take is both are excellent phones/devices.
The reason I went to the HTC over the iPhone isn't a bias against the iPhone, but because I've used PPC/windows mobile OS's since the days of the Dell Axim X5. I'm comfortable with the WM OS, know how to tweak & hack it, customize it to suit me. The iPhone OS, really can't do a lot with it, as far as customization. Plus, the iPhone, is really intended as a "multimedia" device.
The TP/Fuze is too, but, it's not as integrated as the iPhone. I don't play MP3's, movies or anything like that. I use my TP/Fuze as a business device, and it does it very well.
Either phone, you really can't go wrong, it's a choice issue.
asbestos said:
What the iPhone does better:
Note taking - iPhone stomps all over WM here especially with Evernote. The newest Evernote is absolutely incredible on the iPhone.
-Asbestos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Say What? How does Evernote "stomp" all over OneNote? What does Evernote do that OneNote does not?
i hate these comparisons wars with smartphones going on. its like console wars or format wars. the iphone isnt bad, infact its very good. you choose the product you like the best. its not like its something you have to show off to the world and that you where the wisest because you choose it and others didnt because they are tards. i find it very hard to recommend windows mobile phones. they can do a lot if you put some work into it like a hobby. i chose between the touch pro and the iphone and went for the touch pro and i must of thought it better for me cause i even paid alot more for it. my entire family has iphones (cept my sister who has a palm centro) and that works for them. i think the touch pro is better in alot more ways but the iphone is there for people who need something easy for them.
I know you guys probably heard this a thousand times (and a forum search shows this) and what I'm about to say is probably very cliche, but the iPhone is a pretty amazing device.
Typically, I am a WM man (I currently own an HTC Touch Pro), and I've owned WM phones/devices for a long time now. I tried other OSes (Symbian, Palm OS), but ultimately, I prefer WM. When the iPhone first appeared, I disregarded it almost entirely because it's made by Apple. As someone familiar with Apple, I just didn't like them very much (largely due to their design philosophy).
Things didn't look like they were about to change. In fact, the next phones I was seriously looking at was the Toshiba TG01, Samsung Omnia HD i9810, and Samsung Omnia Pro B7610. Two of these are Windows Mobile and one is Symbian (which I was less likely to get anyway). The only major difference is that they aren't HTC (I want to move away from HTC because I exceedingly dislike Qualcomm).
However, something special happened yesterday: My friend invited me to lunch and he showed me his new iPhone 3GS. He allowed me to play with it.
In one word: Incredible!
As my intuition knew, I ended up not liking the design of the OS (I still prefer WM's design), but I couldn't really deny how well made the iPhone really is. More than anything else, I really have to compliment how extremely optimized it really is. Opening any software, going to the home screen, playing movies/music, and doing just about anything really was incredibly smooth. The entire time I was with my friend, I just gushed and gushed about this one aspect. The reason why is because it really is incredible how fast everything was.
The truth is that when compared side to side with my Touch Pro, the speed is really the same. However, a few things to note. First, everyone know how the iPhone seems to use "gradual transitions"? To elaborate, whenever you do anything, such as opening software or rotation, it is done in real time, and you can see the changes with your eyes. This is as opposed to WM where it is done immediately (for example, rotating with my TP results in an immediate change as opposed to you seeing the screen rotate on the iPhone).
This seems like a minor thing, but it has a large effect on perception. Notably, it makes you perceive it as being faster. When I counted down the seconds on the iPhone and WM, I noticed that opening programs and rotation are really done at the same speed, but the iPhone's gradual transition effects makes you perceive it as being faster, which is actually pretty nice.
Second thing and a very important point: My TP uses a custom ROM, which is why its speed was on par with that of the iPhone. If it had been using the stock ROM, I am positive that the iPhone would have crushed it in speed.
This seems like a moot point because I *can* use custom ROMs, but note that this forum and all of its custom ROMs are largely exclusive to HTC phones (with the sole exception of the Xperia...which was made by HTC anyway). What happens if I decide to use another WM phone (for example, the Samsung B7610)? Then I would have no choice but to remain with the stock ROM or at least hope someone would develop the stray ROM for the Samsung devices (such as the i900 on XDA).
At this point, I'm also willing to blame the speed issue on hardware. After all, the iPhone is about 72MHZ faster than my phone, and it also also has a dedicated graphics chip. On the other hand, I also have to take into consideration that it takes a custom, optimized ROM for my device to keep up with the stock ROM on a series of device which is notorious for being outdated (anyone remember the iPhone 2G)?
If anyone is wondering, am I thinking about switching to the dark side? Unfortunately, no. While the huge number of apps and the great speed is tantalizing, I am still the guy who frequently spends 4+ hours changing the ROMs on his phones (and tweaking it afterwards). I'm also the guy who frequently goes into the settings menu because he nitpicks about how each little thing on his phone works.
Can I switch to something that won't allow me that much customization? Speaking as someone who's about to change the ROM on his phone again, the answer appears to be a pretty clear 'no' as this point.
On, the other hand, while playing with the iPhone, I did find myself wishing that the Windows Mobile experience was as smooth, and great as with the iPhone, especially on stock ROMs. I also did find myself wondering what Windows Mobile 7 will be like (I can't wonder with WM6.5 because I'm using it now). But of course, what do people saying about wishing too much? It's useless.
Am I going mad?
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Apparently that's wrong.
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Screen went a nice mix of colours and it totally stopped working. Quite a few plug ins to the computer and it came back to life.
There just to fragile and to big(iphone is thicker than the touch also), good girls phone or if you carry a handbag.
Glade I got the Jade not a problem so far.
thedigitel said:
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that the AT&T contract you have to sign up for to get an iPhone? If that's the case, why not just buy the iPhone unlocked? It's expensive, but it cost about as much as any HTC phone I've seen.
charge1313 said:
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of right now, the iPhone has roughly 50K-60K of apps while the last article detailing how many apps Windows Mobile seems to have stopped at 20K. Futhermore, the iPhone famously beaten Windows Mobile in reaching 25K apps, and I find it highly unlikely that Windows Mobile caught up.
Even from an outside perspective, though, it seems to me that the iPhone has an impressive number of apps, including a plethora of ones that Windows Mobile never seems to get (or is even capable of getting).
stu-k said:
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
I entirely agree.
My wife has a Gen 1 iphone, and I recently updated it to version 3 and unlocked and jailbreaked.
In the old days, WM had thousands of apps as one of its killer features.
I recently spent a few evenings installing apps on the wife's phone, and I was blown away. Not necessarily by the quality, but by the experience.
Everything is smooth, everything works, the user experience is "unchallenging".
I love tweaking, I love coding, I love spending MONTHS dissecting the WinMob OS to implement a tiny hack. But you know what? Why bother?!
I can't see myself giving up on WinMob - it's got momentum, and I can't be bothered to learn Objective C. I'm barely coping with C++ as it is.
But, to paraphrase Gauntlet, "WinMob [may be] about to die".
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
But - the user experience is OLD.
And I think one of the most fundamental flaws is also one of the biggest strengths - WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware. But the problem:
WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware.
Some of those have graphic accelerators, some don't.
Some have dpads, some don't.
Some have 600mhz CPUs, some don't.
The iphone is a single homogeneous ecosystem.
Coders know they can anti-alias without trying to code to the lowest common denominator 200mhz phone with 16mb of ram. They know exactly what they're gonna get with an iphone. And that fact means they know the limitations, and how to pitch what they've got at the right performance considerations. They know what they're working on. The Human Interface spec is incredible, and incredibly helpful. Users expect an experience, naturally, because it feels natural. Apple encourages that, and coders have to honour it.
I think most of the iphone experience can and should be emulated on WinMob.
I'm not just talking about cloning Springboard and everything else. Yes, we can emulate this and that - our coders on XDA devs are incredible, and could do every bit of it.
But we need more: the experience of just being able to use the phone and expect it to work needs to be emulated.
I don't think the iphone is necessarily a better piece of hardware: I prefer my Touch HD. But clearly the user experience, the user interface paradigm, the reward of just being able to use the thing easily needs to be implemented - from the ground up.
I don't think this is going to happen on WinMob; I think the strength/limitations of a wide open platform means this probably can't happen. I think that like Win CE before it, WinMob will end up being relegated to a certain environment that has low expectations (eg Enterprise markets).
But if "Windows" devices are going to survive, I think the change has to happen at a much higher level. I can only hope that Pink or whatever is on the horizon for WinMob 7 is an integrated piece of hardware and user experience designed from the ground up to feel like it's the 21st century... using WinMob out of pity is going to get old, very very soon.
V
8525Smart said:
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to agree, I hate carry around two devices. Hence no longer use Ipod touch on the go, just leave it at home in docking station, which its good for.
Use the Jade for music and a phone which fits on my pocket.
I find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
vijay555 said:
I entirely agree.
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my God, yes, YES!
I can't count the number of times I had to defend WinMo against people who obviously never used it. The number of ridiculously comments I seen was ludicrous and often times seem as if the people saying it were just parroting common criticisms as opposed to their actual experience.
One guy I saw even suggested that receiving text/emails and switching between apps was impossible.
On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post too (as is the subject of my topic). I think you really hit the nail on the head: Windows Mobile's biggest strength, its availability on multiple phones, is also its biggest weakness.
As an owner of a Fuze, an HTC phone with an accelerometer, the lack of accelero-meter WinMo apps makes it very apparent.
I do agree with you that Microsoft needs to do something, at the very least, about the user experience, but I really don't see how it can be done. The iPhone is able to achieve this because it is a software available on one hardware designed by Apple themselves. In order for Microsoft to achieve the same quality of apps or user experience, they would have to design Windows Mobile to take advantage of a particular hardware specification.
As of currently, the best Microsoft can probably achieve is to design Windows Mobile with the best optimization they can while maintaining good compatibility and appearance with a wide number of hardware.
stu-k said:
HI find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be true, but to be fair, the Windows Mobile landscape isn't exactly clear of 'gimmicky' apps either. Some of them even inspired by iPhone equivalents.
HDWobble, anyone?
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
jim_0068 said:
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
poetryrocksalot said:
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
crazy talk said:
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
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Click to collapse
Oh that's a shame... this app is useless then. I heard that Apple is considering the idea of having full support for background applications.
The problem is that:
1) Apple knows that not many people care about "background" applications.
2) Consumer common sense is distorted in that they don't understand the purpose of multi-task. They believe that multi-task is already on the iPhone because obviously, you can "exit the application into another application". This isn't the point, a true multitasking system requires A) background applications B) automation of background functions and C) the ability to switch tasks in the foreground of an application.
3) Apple knows that adding background applications will result in people complaining of slowness because 1) Alot of people still don't know what RAM is, not even my sister who is a 4+ year college student working on her masters and 2) Alot of people do not know how to manage a platform involving background applications and 3) average consumers would rather sacrifice functionality for ease-of-use.
I believe the emphasis of this multi-tasking is not a multi-tasking complaint. Idiots are prone to think that the iPhone already has multi-tasking; I've seem them argue about it. We need to add a mentality to people in which they learn that it isn't about multi-tasking, it's about background applications and how we need applications to function in the background.
Well the 3GS has double the ram and faster processor, hopefully they (third-parties) can find a way to make actual multi-tasking more plausible.
new beast in town
the android os is really taking shape and will soon be king. with so many different devices coming aboard this thing will be huge. the g1 now is awesome with just a little tweaking and those who don't want to tweak there are 2 more ota coming in the next 5 months.
nonzenze said:
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
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Click to collapse
Hmm, very informative read, Thank you,
So the 3GS apparently has a superior CPU in more ways than one, which I'm not really surprised about. I did mentioned that I did not like HTC's choice of CPUs...which they're still using in their newest devices. Many other devices are already using the Cortex A8, so if it is the case that HTC is losing out due to the CPU, then that doesn't bode well for their future phones.
jim_0068 said:
To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
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Click to collapse
Yes, everything you said is true. A jailbroken iPhone is a very nice thing and probably does well for tinkerers. In fact, the 3GS that my friend let me used was jailbroken too.
However, truthfully, installing apps that lets me do new things wasn't what I was really referring to before. Instead, I was largely referring to the changing of ROMs/OS. I believe the iPhone has made some progress running Linux, but nothing else as far as I can see. WM Phone has so many different ROMs available and progress has been made on running Linux (including Android) too. This allows for much more customization, in my opinion as you get the benefit of software-based customization combined with ROM/OS-based.
Besides, it's pretty fun to be running Windows Mobile 6.5 while everyone else is still using Windows Mobile 6.1.
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
My opinion is that in order to be a solid competitor, Microsoft needs to limit the hardware choices for their platform. HTC does a great job at making devices for Windows Mobile. Microsoft needs to pair up with them to make their own phone. With the new Zune HD coming out featuring the nVidia Tegra chipset, it would make a wonderful platform to build the next generation WM phone from. The thing is, it should be the only phone featuring WM 7 Professsional. It will enable Microsoft to fine tune WM to use every bit of the phone's capabilities, leaving nothing to be desired. Much like they do with their PC OS's, there can be several versions of the main OS with steps in capabilities. Their Zune HD phone should be the candidate for WM7 Ultimate, which would feature smooth transitions and speed.
Edit: Just saw the post above mine. I need to read more!
vijay555 said:
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
8525Smart said:
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think the only company that can actually create a truly direct competitor to Apple and iPhone is Microsoft...it's the name and not the product.....
Apple had a bad rep back then and now they are doing good.
It seems like Microsoft is tagged after Apple jumped the boat to success.
We'll just have to wait for Microsoft to adopt Apple's precedent.
With Microsoft directly creating their own phone and not just an OS, we might actually get a true iPhone killer. Though Microsoft may have to revamp the entire OS and create their own line of OS totally unrelated to Windows Mobile.
Hey friends,
whats up? How you like Android? Is it fulfilling all of your need? Have fun
Being someone that moved from Palm to the Android, I am fully satisfied! The only thing that I missed from palm is the ability to record my phone calls. But this is not Android OS issue it is hardware issue. So I am a happy Android(HTC Desire) user!
Of course! Everything I need in one homescreen, custom ROMs, plus it beats the hell out of an iPhone!
Most of my needs...
..and for the others we have women
Completely satisfied... Anything it didn't do straight out of the box was easy and painless to add. Having been a BB and iPhone user before, I can safely say Android is by far the best for me.
Although... It doesn't make my coffee in the morning and run me a bath when I finish work, so I've been forced to get married to cover these missing functions...
It has far surpassed my needs!
Even satisfied needs I didn't know I had!
Only drawback I can point to with switching over is there needs to be a way to get out of the cloud if you don't want to have your head, contacts and Calendar in those clouds.
And the lack of Sync with PC for Outlook built in is a major inconvenience.
(I have found some 3rd party functionality here none of it perfect yet)
I used to use my WinMo phone like it was intended, mostly as a communications device and for a wireless hotspot. Sometimes a MP3 player and rarely to get web pages or manuals for the devices I use in my work (Broadcast Video Engineer)
Now on android I have dish pointer that lets me know what satellites I can hit through the camera, I have better web to read and get Manuals where I can zoom much quicker and precisely than I could before.
It automatically will update all the programs I have gotten from the marketplace keeping itself up to date.
And the resposiveness of the hardware (1.2 Ghz) is just a pure pleasure!
It allows me to set the machine up in a sense like format (different tabs for different functions) and the widget is everything WinMo Today plugs SHOULD have been.
I am all for brand loyalty and I understand it is hard to leave a house that you spent so much of your life in but I can't ever imagine wanting to go back or onto the very simplistic and uncustomizable WinPho7.
Android isn't perfect but it sure is a lot better than the other OS' I have seen.
Coming from IOS it doesnt seem as smooth or polished but it has been able to do everything I need...
^^
+1...android has lots of customizations..great features but it isnt just as smooth as my iphone was.
drafunt said:
Being someone that moved from Palm to the Android, I am fully satisfied! The only thing that I missed from palm is the ability to record my phone calls. But this is not Android OS issue it is hardware issue. So I am a happy Android(HTC Desire) user!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is an app in the market called call rocorder...i m using it currenty with my evo...and it works great...it uses the phones mic to record and the recorded conversations are clearly audible.
You can try it for your phone.
OnlyFone.com said:
Hey friends,
whats up? How you like Android? Is it fulfilling all of your need? Have fun
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing is miss from my iphone is the ability to listen to podcasts at 2x speed. I know there are some apps out there that have a solution for this but they dont work on my Streak.
I would say i'm very Satisfied with android coming from a iPhone was a big upgrade to me. I like the freedom that we have and can customize pretty much everything. But I will admit that the only things I missed from having a iPhone is the music player and some of the apps were pretty sweet.
Very much!
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
DPLOY said:
Coming from IOS it doesnt seem as smooth or polished but it has been able to do everything I need...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it depends on your phone and ROM. I use a Galaxy S, and Doc's ROM (fully customized from the kitchen), and my phone literally couldn't be faster. I click something and usually it's done before I lift my finger. Except for 3G (which is pathetic in Australia).
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Absolutely! I used an iPhone for a year before switching to Android. A couple months ago, I decided to sell my iPhone so I booted it up to clear everything out, and couldn't figure out how to do anything! Simple actions, like turning on wifi, and finding an app, are multi-step processes there. Android is awesome, simply put.
Android has not failed me so far, not in regards to software. Apps are great, software gets better every update, account syncing makes adding contacts so much easier... I could go on.
That said, I've had my truly great experiences with the software only after I rooted my device, shortly after HTC pushed out their 2.1 Sense ROM for it. Since then, I've used a variety of amazing ROMs, both 2.2 and 2.3, which are much more representative of what Android is capable of when truly optimised to a specific device. I've used Symbian and iOS, but I don't think I'll be looking back from Android any time soon.
Yep! I find it can do everything I want and really fast, plus more. I must say there are some really handy apps out there.
One area which I think could improve is GPS software, I'm talking about offline map GPS software. I use CoPilot and while it's the best I've seen so far on Android, iGO8 on my i900 WinMo is much much better.
Great for multitasking, smooth, very customizable. I love android and will never switch to another os
Sent from my SilverBullet "RootedHTCDesireZ"
Works great for me, I can't get away from my phone. I just wish service was better, but that's another story.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Android is the best upgrading i ever did, switching from my dumb nokia n97..
The only thing degrading rite now is the android market.. Slowly, day by day, the android market has turned into itunes app market.. Lot's of crap apps rather than really useful apps.. Seriously, what's up with fart apps, stupid bikini puzzle, pointless sexy girl wallpaper apps?? We don't need million stupid apps that cluttering the market.. That is one of the reasons i stop myself from buying an iphone4..
No offense..
it is more than full filing my needs . I do everything with it fun, work, multimedia etc.
Far from satisfied.
Navigation isn't as good as on WM
Keyboard sucks, had to get swype
Can't make calls using phone numbers emailed to me
Email client is soooooo basic, only good thing about it is the ability to connect to 2 exchange servers
Browsing the web is a PITA, go to zoom in, accidently hit a link instead which is too small to read (hence the need to zoom in) and then have to go back and do it again. Also there are many pages/links which it can't handle using default browser/firefox/opera
So many apps, so few decent ones
I was curious to hear from former Android users how you like WP7. Mainly what are your main gripes and what functions did you actually use that are no longer available. Also, are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it. I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one. Thanks!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Here goes:
Mainly what are your main gripes
No apps, and if there are apps they are over priced and crap alternatives to Android versions.
Homebrew is going to cost money.
I know its a phone and should mainly just be a phone, but there is nothing to do on it, I never leave my Android phone alone always playing with something but this I treat it like a nokia 3310 lol.
What functions did you actually use that are no longer available
I don't know what it is but there are some things missing but Mango is looking good but still not as good as Android and Ice Cream Sandwich will be coming out around the same time.
Are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it.
Only thing that is making me want to swap over is the Xbox Live thing other than that Android is far superior.
I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one.
I love Android also and also wanted to try something new but Windows Phone 7 isn't something new. Stick with Android and Launcher7 lol ^^
I think I'm fine with paying for my phone to be unlocked personally, one time fee for the latest beta builds forever? Honestly I don't know why HTC Samsung and Motorola aren't looking into this for android devices so they can make some extra $ and make us impatient (or reasonable people that don't like waiting for their craptastic skins) people happy.
I don't care much for Xbox live like I use to but I definitely like Zune pass (really its probably the top single feature that has me wanting wp7 as I use my phone for music a lot).
I love android but honestly, I'm tired of trying to throw on custom ROMs (its fun but tiring) on every phone I get trying to keep up with the updates. I think the only thing that is holding me to android at this point is the ability to wifi tether my phone to my tablet and the fact that mango phones are on their way (fall is only 2-3 months away so announcements should be made soon?)
So guys, is there some feature that I am missing that you really either miss from android or you really like that wp7 had when you made the swap?
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
i switched from my old Desire Z and X8 (both of em are still in use sometimes) to a 7 Pro.
so in my own personal opinion, a small "comparision":
1. UI & Customization
I like the UI of WP7 alot more, you can use Launcher7 on Android but it doesn't feel as good. Its smoother and a lot faster, mostly due to inability of "customization" but i really don't miss it. The tile system works surprisingly well, and yeah i don't have a lot to complain about.
No wallpapers, no app launchers etc. It's a locked phone pretty much. If you don't mind, well just don't care
If you want customization stay with Android, else both of em are good in their own ways -> personal preference.
2. Apps
For most people an important point. If you compare Android market to WP7 market, WP7 looses.. big time!
You are charged for almost every app (and a good bunch of em are overpriced!). While free apps, and sometimes test versions of the paid apps are good enough, its still nothing in comparision to Android.
If you want specific apps, check prices first! (i'd recommend it before buying the phone )
There are some social features integrated into WP7 but at the moment (Pre-Mango for me still), they aren't complete. The replacements for those features are at best mediocore, sometimes they shut off randomly etc. There might be some better apps for those, but since i don't use em very much, i havent searched for them.
Otherwise the quality of the apps and games i downloaded is really good, though some of em are missing. As i said, check before you buy the phone, if you didnt already.
3. Features:
Well again the points goes to Android. Bluetooth File Transfer, Tethering and stuff like that, you won't find it on any current WP7 phone (unless you are a Mango user, but i don't know if they implement some of those features). If you need it, well i wouldn't recommend buying a WP7 as of now.
Other than that, i don't really miss any important ones.
4. Final Thoughts:
Since i don't have the WP7 for too long forgive me if i missed or overexaggerated on somethings.
In the end i think, WP7 is a real good OS. While locked down very hard, it just works (just like the hated Apple). While it does feel kind of inferioer to Android (due to the lack of some importants features mostly), it really isn't. There are workarounds for everything, though they are complicated sometimes
With Mango.. well no, even now in MY opinion (which means only for my needs etc), i equal WP7 to Android. While i still use my Androids sometimes (mainly for tethering etc), i often see myself not missing those phones.
I'd recommend WP7 everytime, as well as Android. Just get some information on both, maybe if your friends have said phones, compare them ( or go to the store and do the same).
In the end it comes down to one's need and preference
If you want, you could wait for Mango devices. Though i guess they won't up the hardware too much, maybe add some features like Front Facing Camera and stuff like that, but that's it.
I hope i could help some
BartJJ said:
I was curious to hear from former Android users how you like WP7. Mainly what are your main gripes and what functions did you actually use that are no longer available. Also, are the tradeoffs worth it in the end and what features really *make* swapping worth it. I have loved android for a long time but I'm kind of wanting something new and have liked the wp7 interface from day one. Thanks!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This entire WP7 OS is simply beautiful and fluid. Rather than 95% of all other android devices, all WP7s are completely lag free while still having a very attractive and intuitive interface. I have 28k apps at my disposal and that means one for everything I would want. The WP7 community here is amazing and hacking / development itself isn't fragmented. I've owned 3 android devices and 2 iOS devices in the past and I'm honestly never looking back.
Android too me seems very slow and inconsistent. Running a Samsung Galaxy I often find when the thing lags, it lags to the extreme. The whole app-store mechanism I find a mess, especially because to much power is given to the app developers. More often then not, they abuse these powers which destroys your battery life.
I like the way WP7 is headed, and I like what Microsoft is doing to keep it a reliable platform. What I don't like however, is the update-procedure as it's very poorly performed. I'm not blaming any company in particular, but I do think updates needs to rolled out faster. Why do ISPs have to test every minor update?
Other then that, the WP7 UI is far superior, and app support is coming along well now. We just need a major bump and hopefully Nokia will spark this? I'm looking forward to purchasing a 2nd gen phone, namely a Nokia.
I went from iphone 3gs to blackberry torch to palm pre 2 to samsung focus to atrix 4g to iphone 4 and back to samsung focus and i love it.
The largest difference to me is that WP7 lacks customization. With android you will hardly ever find 2 phones that have the same ui and settings. All windows phones home screens look the same. I am ok w/ lack of apps. Honestly there is pretty much something for everything already. What would make me happy and never go back to android is being able to personalize the home screen. Maybe some transparent tiles and a wallpaper background for homescreen. that would be awesome.
I'll try to keep this succinct. I had an Evo 4G for the last year, then switched to an HTC Arrive a couple days ago.
Like:
-Most of the apps I used on Android are available on WP7
-As a Zune Pass subscriber, having that ecosystem on my phone is awesome
-It feels like for tasks I do often, I can do all of those tasks in a lot less time than it took on Android
-I primarily develop in .NET, so the dev tools are way friendlier to me than Android's.
Dislike:
-WP7 doesn't have anything that comes close to the awesomeness of Google Navigation
-I'm pretty heavily into the Google Voice ecosystem. Losing the tight integration there is annoying.
-As a Zune Pass subscriber, the lack of expandable storage is agonizing. I can never completely get rid of my Zune HD because it's still the device I have to go to if I want access to all of my music/podcasts.
-The Amazon Android App Market's free app of the day has spoiled me so badly on the pricing race-to-the-bottom front that I am finding it very hard to convince myself to buy any of the games on WP7.
Overall, I am having a good time so far. There is some functionality I am missing, but nothing that I'd consider a showstopper. I still have my Evo 4G, so I might end up switching between the two devices every couple months or so.
I just switched from a samsung mesmerize to a HTC TP7.
My first impression was WOW. I instantly liked the tp7. it's more responsive, it's faster, i can do stuff faster, and everything loads faster. Typing on the screen is more accurate and fixes my screw ups better.
As for apps, the android market has tons more, but in my experience 99.99999% of them are completely and totally useless and the ones that aren't useless i found to be lacking. There were a few that were good, but not many. So far the ones i've tried on WP7 actually seem to be of decent quality and i can find an app for everything i need so far. Some are still obviously in the early stages and need some more features but the app feels higher quality. Of course the windows marketplace has it's share of fart, burp and police light apps. (who downloads these stupid things?)
My ONLY complaint so far is the fact i can't do custom colors on the tiles. the stock colors frankly suck. I tried unlocking the phone and chevron doesn't find the phone at all so i'm wondering if this phone just isn't unlockable with that method. Not being able to do custom tile colors just seems like an obvious omission that should have been fixed allready.
Other than that i like this phone MUCH better, it's faster and doesn't hiccup as much as android did. The loss of customization sucks a bit but honestly, who really cares. I'd rather have the phone work well than be able to customize the wallpaper. The tile color though is killing me.
lots of very good points expressed already, and I agree with most.
However: wm6.5 was far superior to my android in all the little area's that I liked / wanted to tweak... which left me disappointed when I switched to android and frustrated with the infancy of the android based os / app wanting some of the simple things that I was used to on wm6.5.
Then I jump back to windows mobile (thinking it will be great to reg edit again) only to find... tile overlay with no access to the good stuff, and on top of that extremely limited in more ways than android... apps (android copycat) extremely limited and very high priced... I never needed apps to do what I wanted. windows already had it, I just needed to turn it on or off and or tweak it the way I wanted it. customize to no end.
Now I really like the smooth integrated feel, and I took a step down in hardware just to get the operating system. I am back to hacking a android wanna be like device just to get to the meat of the phone, so I can use the power of wm7. I think...
Morrisme said:
Now I really like the smooth integrated feel, and I took a step down in hardware just to get the operating system. I am back to hacking a android wanna be like device just to get to the meat of the phone, so I can use the power of wm7. I think...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's WP7 !
I think all we have to do is to wait a bit. My only problem is, that the application store is pretty empty(and overpriced), but hopefully it's gonna change.
What I see is, that Microsoft tries to copy Apple in terms of system optimisation, and simplicity, and so far I say it's successful.
I hope once the marketplace will be flooded with applications, there will be a serious filter on what apps they allow, and what they don't. The main criteria of selling on marketplace should be to have a perfectly smooth application on every windows based mobile, because what I see now is far away from that. Applications seem to just thrown together for wp7 in a day or 2.
Otherwise coming from android myself, I miss certain apps, or games, or functions, but the other hand I'm impressed by it's UI, and smoothness.
WP7 has potential, but it's time is not yet here. Once a great poet said in youtube comments: "Iphone is the past, Android is the present, WP7 is the future"
I came from evo 4g and I love it I got an arrive. Its so quick. And something no one mentioned battery life is great sure if I game for a while I will need a top off bit other then that a work day is no problem btw my work day is 12 hrs
There are some surprising holes in WP7 which I didn't expect compared to other OS.
1) No common Compass API - it's down to individual hardware manufacturers to supply drivers and they all implement it in a different way. So what works on an LG won't work on a Samsung or HTC. Really hinders the use of maps and star gazing apps etc. This is despite the compass being a mandatory part of MS' hardware spec. So much for MS' tight hardware platform control. And don't think about trying Mango - even if you have the compass working in NoDo it won't in the Mango Beta - and MS say it wont be availible until the OEMs release their final versions. The whole point of a Beta and RTM is so developers can test and adapt their software ready for launch - but with the compass augmented apps (one of the killer features of modern smartphones) they are screwed. We have a common API for GPS, why not Compass?
2) No PIN delay - even the most basic phone that offers Exchange support allows a configurable delay before the phone is PIN locked, or respects the delay imposed by an Exchange security policy. Everytime my screen goes off - I have to enter an 8 character password - despite the Exchange policy allowing a max 20 minute delay. Is this fixed in mango? Is this how MS works with MS?
..and relax...
As a long time Android user (OG Droid) I cannot believe I am about to ask this. I know it will spur alot of hate my way, but I guess I can take it...
I am thinking of upgrading to the next Iphone (5).
I haven't thought lightly about this. As previously stated, I have used Android since the motorola droid 1 and since then I have rooted every phone and installed countless roms.
The common theme in all the phones and roms I've encountered is intermittent lag. Every phone, every rom, has had lag from time to time. I'm talking about having to wait 3-10 seconds for the dialer or home screen to come up.
I have tried all different homes, scripts, etc to improve it, but the problems remain. The problem is it's intermitent, that's why it's hard to isolate the cause.
Also, the only root privledges I really enjoy are removing apps and wireless tethering.
So a few questions for you guys:
Who here also has an iphone 4, 4s?
Does it have any lag at all?
Is there a way to bypass itunes to transfer music/vids to it?
Anyone convert to iphone and then regret it?
What limitations besides flash are there?
Is there a way to wirelessly tether?
Flame on, I'm ready
Galaxy Nexus and done
A few of my buddies have iPhones, dating back to the iPhone3G. They have all had problems at one point or another. All of them. Lag? Have you ever used an iPhone? Two of my friends have jailbroken iPhone4s that lag more than my OG Droid. They look at my Charge and drool. My friends with stock iPhone4's seem to have better performance.
iPhone3G had some of the most ****ty battery life I've ever seen on a phone. This was back in 2008. Everyone I knew who owned an iPhone3G had multiple chargers (office, home, car). Also, the iPhone3G didn't handle the OS updates as well as the 3GS and above. My friend who used an iPhone3G was basically crippled at times.
I've seen plenty of lag on the iPhone3GS as well. I have the iPod Touch (3rd gen) and have seen lag. My iPod Touch also likes to skip tracks whenever it feels like it.
I can't speak for the performance of the iPads, but I can offer my opinion: they're giant iPod Touches. NOT revolutionary in the least bit. I seriously hate iPads and hate Apple for ruining what "tablet computers" are. Even my supernerdyApplefanboy coworker got upset when the iPad was showcased. He was hoping for an actual tablet (he's an artist), and not just a giant iPod Touch.
EDIT: I'm surprised you haven't complained about your PC lagging.
I hardly ever have lag on my phones, and when it does happen its not extreme and doesn't last long usually just a stutter...
on a related note it bugs me when I watch/read reviews about android phones and all I see/hear is LAG LAG LAG LAG DERPY DERP DERP LAG then the reviewer proceeds to do a demonstration of it and it looks COMPLETELY NORMAL, like they're calling the two milliseconds screen transition lag and afterwards continue to say how horrible it is compared to iOS, which is retarded because they are two completely different os's and everyone knows iOS has its faults as well (one of which, surprise surprise, is LAG)
/end rant
Being that I am not a fanboy in either direction, I will give my input, and experience.
Lag. Not normally seen in a stock iphone, but ever so present of jailbroken.
Bypass itunes? Nope. And if you have never used itunes to sync, then coming from android, you may have a hard time getting used to it.
I have used android and ios. Regret it, no. but I prefer androids openness. If I was forced to only user ios would I be miserable? Not from the reliability standpoint. Personally I get bored easily, so I love flashing different roms with android.
Limitations? Ability to change roms. If you jailbreak then you can load up winterboard for themes, but you are still on the same os.
Tether? Possible, yet easier to track, and apple has been known to break this feature easily from their end at carrier requests.
My additional input. Unless the iphone 5 has at least a 4 in screen, and better battery to compensate, I will pass. The small screen does annoy me
I went from Windows Mobile 6.5 -> iOS -> Android.
Even a jailbroken iPhone still needs to call home (your PC) whenever you want to update it. You mentioned bypassing iTunes for adding music. While I am no expert on iOS, there is no method that I've discovered to do this on my Touch 4G. With the exception of my SD backup last night, I cannot remember the last time I needs a PC in front of me to do anything on my phone.
Lag has already been touched upon, and while I've seen it on occasion with Android, iOS 5.0.1 lags a hell of a lot more on my bone stock, with the exception on jailbreak, iPod.
There are plenty of ways to by pass iTunes, I prefer to CopyTrans Manager since it's free and simple.
http://www.copytrans.net/copytransmanager.php
There are wireless tether apps PdaNet, TetherMe, and MyWi for jailbroken iPhones on cydia. Be aware though that it is much easier for the carriers to detect tethering on IOS than android.
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
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kvswim said:
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
Win...
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It really comes down to what you want in the long run.
My wife has the Iphone 4 and I have the charge. personally I like the charge better.
Its not in a locked environmet. If your phone lags, and all will it comes down to specs.
My next phone will have 1.5 gb cpu and 1gb ram simple enough for me. Then it will have to fall into a "can I mod it catagory".
kvswim said:
Macs=scam backwards. Enough said.
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This made me laugh. Never realized it.
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tsitalon1 said:
As a long time Android user (OG Droid) I cannot believe I am about to ask this. I know it will spur alot of hate my way, but I guess I can take it...
I am thinking of upgrading to the next Iphone (5).
I haven't thought lightly about this. As previously stated, I have used Android since the motorola droid 1 and since then I have rooted every phone and installed countless roms.
The common theme in all the phones and roms I've encountered is intermittent lag. Every phone, every rom, has had lag from time to time. I'm talking about having to wait 3-10 seconds for the dialer or home screen to come up.
I have tried all different homes, scripts, etc to improve it, but the problems remain. The problem is it's intermitent, that's why it's hard to isolate the cause.
Also, the only root privledges I really enjoy are removing apps and wireless tethering.
So a few questions for you guys:
Who here also has an iphone 4, 4s?
Does it have any lag at all?
Is there a way to bypass itunes to transfer music/vids to it?
Anyone convert to iphone and then regret it?
What limitations besides flash are there?
Is there a way to wirelessly tether?
Flame on, I'm ready
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The main problem I have with the iPhone (my mom has it) is that its browser lacks text reflow. You can use alternative browsers that can increase font size, but this can backfire on certain websites (such as dslreports) where lines begin to overlap. Windows Phone 7 also lacks text reflow, and this is a serious issue for me.
Obviously there's Readability, or even Safari's own built-in "Reader" function, to strip ads out of web pages and display text in a very readable format, but that doesn't work with forums or comment pages such as xda or reddit (which are my favorite parts of the web). This issue is exacerbated on iOS's relatively small screen.
As for smoothness and lag, there's no doubt iOS is smoother in all facets. It also doesn't experience standby drain issues, which I've struggled with dealing on my Charge. Its browser is silky smooth, and touch input is prioritized over all other actions (like web page rendering), so you'll be able to move around a page that hasn't fully loaded (you'll just see checkerboxes).
I was hoping Google would fix Android's lag issues with ICS. I want them to eliminate the Dalvik VM framework (it would at the very least spare their OS's future from Oracle's lawsuits) and run things in native code. If you've used WP7 you've no doubt been surprised at how oily smooooth it runs even on outdated Cortex A8 single-core CPUs.
Unfortunately, responses from Google's own engineers are incredibly disheartening. Take this one for example: https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/XAZ4CeVP6DC
Dianne argues points about the differences between iOS and Android, and how this leads to performance issues with Android (security and sandboxing leads to slowness). But later on in the thread an iOS jailbreaker by the name of "Jay Freeman" utterly destroys every one of her claims, pointing out iOS goes above and beyond what Android does (in that specific instance).
If one of Google's own Android engineers doesn't even realize their excuses for performance issues is completely invalid, how is Google ever going to improve their OS?
So yeah, if it weren't for LTE and text reflow in the browser, I might have moved on. You also may want to consider those issues before switching.
Also as a disclaimer, I've flashed the "pre-alpha" ICS ROM on the Charge, and while the stock browser loads much, much faster than Gingerbread, it still stutters and lacks smoothness. Opera Mobile is still by far the smoothest, but even that occasionally experiences microstutters. Many people won't notice or care, but as a former high(ish)-level FPS player I notice these details and it drives me crazy.
To the person above me... Jay Freeman aka Saurik is the person who basically invented jailbreaking. He is the iOS god-the JT1134 of the iPhone.
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I thought this debate died a while back. I don't have lag on the Charge, period.
Get a good ROM, Fugu, V-6, change scheduler, freeze stuff.
Or get Apple. If you have to even ask, then you probably should get Apple.
Besides, by the time the iPhone 5 is out, just think where Android phones will be.
Lol, worst place to post this thread Maybe you should try an iForum
On a serious note, I know what you mean, the UI is smooth as silk, apps open quick and the UI is super speedy. Honestly though, I just upgraded from a milestone (international version of OG Droid) to a Galaxy Nexus, and I really can't complain. I haven't played with a 4S but I mean this phone is buttery smooth with no lag whatsoever. The screen is gorgeous and I love having so much more real estate than a measly 3.7' device. I also could never get used to such a boring UI such as the one present on the iPhone. I mean seriously, the same, overrated UI for 7 years? Although I love what Apple does, their UI is lacking some serious innovation and I for one could never live with that UI on my phone.
As per whether iTunes is required or not, I believe if you are jailbroken, you can use a desktop app called iFunbox. Not sure about this one, but I know you can navigate through the root of the device but not sure if it would play with the native music/video player
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kvswim said:
To the person above me... Jay Freeman aka Saurik is the person who basically invented jailbreaking. He is the iOS god-the JT1134 of the iPhone.
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Holy... *that* was Saurik? No wonder he was so knowledgeable about the ins and outs of iOS. I thoroughly enjoyed reading his posts. He somehow made it possible for even a layman like myself to understand what he was saying.
What frustrated me the most was that Dianne did nothing to follow up. She updated her post and admitted to being in error about iOS, but apparently didn't make the connection that her mistake made her entire argument completely moot.
I've always had high hopes for Android, but it's been frustrating me lately. The XDA community does an amazing job of tweaking, fixing, modding, speeding up, etc. to make Android run far better than even stock versions, but only a rewrite of Android's foundations will give it the power to run as ridiculously fluidly as WP7 does on 2009 hardware, let alone iOS on a single-core 600 MHz iPhone 3GS at 256 MB of RAM (albeit at low resolution).
As for Android being linux-based, Meemo is even more customizable and runs more smoothly, despite having less investment into it. Android deserves better. I want Google to stand up and say "we're breaking backwards compatibility to rewrite this OS". Take the lead, be bold, ignore the bleatings of the carriers and OEMs.
With WP7 and iOS not having full multi-tasking support, at least to the level that Android has it, that helps make them more fluid. If you don't have apps in the background taking up RAM and CPU time, regardless of how much or little of the system resources the app takes up, it is still wasted time. In return though, we don't have to worry about closing out music or the browser just to check a text message. If you want to remove the multi-tasking ability of Android, especially if done to ICS, I'm sure that it would be very smooth as well.
imnuts said:
With WP7 and iOS not having full multi-tasking support, at least to the level that Android has it, that helps make them more fluid. If you don't have apps in the background taking up RAM and CPU time, regardless of how much or little of the system resources the app takes up, it is still wasted time. In return though, we don't have to worry about closing out music or the browser just to check a text message. If you want to remove the multi-tasking ability of Android, especially if done to ICS, I'm sure that it would be very smooth as well.
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I don't think this is a fair argument. iOS multitasking is just done differently and has a scheduler optimized for mobile devices with battery constraints. However it is no doubt more limited, which is why I used Meego as an example. Meego has true multitasking, but is still extremely responsive to input with an extremely smooth UI. Even incomplete webOS is more responsive in the browser (although not smooth). And multitasking isn't the only issue with Android.
Take one of the poster's comments: "While the S2's browser is fantastic, other parts are not - such as an SMS inbox with a thread of 30 or so messages, or scrolling through a long list of contacts (it seems to 'stutter' when the ListView has to render headings while scrolling is occurring, so it's not 'fluid'). Third party apps suffer the same fate (i.e. IMDB: scrolling through 'Latest Trailers' or the 'Coming Soon' list, same app on iPhone - buttery smooth and flawless fluidity which makes the end-user feel good).
...
Or Skype: install Skype, chat with someone, then scroll up the chat. I'm not even going to start on viewing/panning around PDF files ;(."
Another poster with a custom kernel claimed smooth experience on a different app with similar functionality, but that speaks to xda's accomplishments, and not to Android's effectiveness.
Jay Freeman (aka Saurik... I had no idea) sums up the above mentioned issue here:
"http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3332357 <- check out the responses from Xuzz and ryanpetrich.
In particular, iOS in fact has a multi-window architecture: applications can be made up of multiple UIWindows, and you can have UIWindows from different processes on screen at the same time. When you click on applications in SpringBoard, the transitions you see are animations of windows, and it would not at all be difficult to implement (from a rendering perspective) a scheme where different processes registered something similar to Android's activities, where clicking links slid one process's content off-screen while sliding another process's content on, even while sharing a navigation bar.
The status bar actually used to be an example of this, but they changed it at some point (and honestly I do not remember why, but I do not believe it to have been due to a rendering issue); the notification center, however, is a good current example: the window for the notification center is in SpringBoard, but it is rendering over and at the same time as the window for the application you are covering. There is also no issue having these windows alpha composite onto each other: the little popups that happen from clicking the volume buttons are windows in SpringBoard.
The reason for this is that, like with most multi-window environments (including Android), there is a window manager that is handling all of the actual compositing. In this case, it is SpringBoard, the process that manages the home screen, task switcher, notification center, lock screen, and honestly almost anything that has to be "always happening". The way this works is that surfaces (backed by system or video memory) are managed by a driver that allows them to be passed between processes: applications can render directly to their surfaces, while the actual surface hierarchy is maintained by SpringBoard.
Honestly, though: around here is where my knowledge is really fuzzy, and can't be trusted; Ryan Petrich's knowledge can be, so I will quote his comment from Hacker News: """On iOS, all standard rendering is done in a single context by the Core Animation window server which lives in SpringBoard. Only when an app adds an OpenGL ES layer to the view hierarchy does a separate context need to be created. When that happens, the render graph is split into subgraphs that are rendered to surfaces and displayed as overlays (with SpringBoard rendering all the standard layers and the app rendering the OpenGL layer)""".
The result of all this is that your comments regarding iOS's inability to handle multiple applications sharing screen real-estate in an efficient and secure manner are simply false: the fact that Apple does not support the Android notion of seamlessly moving between applications, with a back-button instead of simply an up/home-button, is simply an irritating business decision they make. As mentioned by Xuzz on Hacker News, it would be a simple manner to, for example, modify UIKeyboard to be handled by a separate process from the app that was calling for it: the involved work would not be rendering complexity.
Finally, the reason why you need to be careful with your view hierarchy to get 60fps scrolling is due to the complexity of loading new table cells and rendering them for the first time: once they are rendered they scroll quickly as the entire layer is cached (afaik, and if I'm wrong on this it doesn't actually matter). The problem on Android is that, even in the best possible cases, where you are staring at a trivial table implemented by the Android team itself (such as the Settings/Preferences app), there is noticeable UI latency and slop while moving your finger over the screen. When you read threads like the response to your first article on Hacker News, you can see this is a serious challenge for Android."
Dianne Hackborne's response is to disregard these points by claiming all of this is due to the nature of GPUs on old Android devices: "Unfortunately for us, until recently we just didn't have GPUs that could do multiple contexts, so if our system worked like that we wouldn't have been able to ship. :}"
She uses the Nexus S as an example of a "newer" device that solved these problems: "For example, a Nexus S can definitely does 60fps on well written lists."
Sadly, my Droid Charge still stutters on lists and when opening the app drawer.
Jay refutes her silly claims and cites an article on lag in ICS on the GNex and lambasts her for attempting to spread the false claim that Android's lag is due to sandboxing and security issues. I've even seen Hackborne (or at least someone claiming to be her) posting on sites like ArsTechnica with various long-winded arguments like the one she posted on Google+. It's bizarre how unwilling she is to directly address these complaints.
Sorry for the long post. It's a wonderful thread with plenty of amazing back and forth arguments. I just want Google to recognize the issues and talk about them more in public. Talk about how they're specifically addressing them. I'm excited as the next guy to get ICS, but it's just not enough. I've seen videos comparing browsing in ICS compared to a single-core A8 WP7 phone. Scrolling and zooming... just no comparison. As much as I hate to admit it, the idea of an HTC Titan II with 4.7" screen and LTE makes me jealous. What I wouldn't give to have an Android phone with that kind of user experience.
Ok, thanks guys.
So from what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like a fundamental difference in user experience really. Sure you lose control unless you jailbreak, which causes iOS lag...
Most of what I want to do still seems doable. If I decide to go that route I would wait for the 5, as I have to have a bigger screen.
Next question for those that have experienced it. Is there anything comparable to Google navigation on iOS? I know Google has it on iOS, but it's crippled, I also believe there are paid versions, but is there anything free that's as accurate and reliable as the turn by turn Android Nav app?
How about theming? app drawers? I really don't like a cluttered homescreen with all my apps on it. I assume there is an app drawer app that can clean it up right? Oh, what about widgets?
I also want to thank you guys for the open and honest feedback without the usual dismissal that is usually found on some of these boards.
tsitalon1 said:
How about theming? app drawers? I really don't like a cluttered homescreen with all my apps on it. I assume there is an app drawer app that can clean it up right? Oh, what about widgets?
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Haha, personalization, what's that?