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CAN THE SHIFT STILL MAKE A SPLASH IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION?
To a lot of the community it must seem that the highpoint of the HTC Shifts anticipation was the Hugo Ortega review of the device back in August [Additional Video Link]. The community seemed to Match Hugo’s enthusiasm for the device at the time, and understandably; the device has the potential to take the UMPC and pocketPC platform a great leap forward and all, since its first revelation for sub $2000. But since that high note and as more details have trickled out about the Shift the enthusiasm from both communities (UMPC and Pocket PC) seems to have diminished in proportional response [Comments here offer a glimpse to some of the broad criticisms now circulating].
The HTC Shift isn’t the first device to have specification changes or features taken out along the production path. First to go has been the 1.2Ghz Processor, followed by Windows Mobile 6 (at least a full version), next was voice capabilities (its quite possible these were never going to be available but given the cellular functionality of the device one wonders), then went the hope for at least a 1024x600 resolution screen and lastly the most recent revelation is that we can expect only 2hours of Vista battery life [New specs link – thanks to Kaz covering first hand GITEX2007].
Now the above paragraph might make it seem that the HTC shift has been butchered from its original splendour, so lets take a look at these change and its general specs. This isnt a review of the device, I haven’t been blessed to try the device, its just my interpretations of where the Shift is at now as it prepares to ship, combined with my UMPC experience but mainly as a long time Windows Mobile user and HTC enthusiast.
Processor: so we’ve gone from 1.2Ghz Via Chip down to the Intel A110 Stealy 800Mhz. It’s not all bad news, it’s the same processor used by popular UMPCs such as the Samsung Q1 Ultra, and is increasingly be used by other UMPCs such as the Kojinsha and Fujitsu. Most users have reported things run smoothly on these platforms, including Vista so unless you’re planning on using your UMPC as a video encoder one might suspect its going to do the usual run of the mill UMPC stuff just fine with 800Mhz. Despite a slow boot up time (possibly an anomaly, possibly could be corrected with tweaks) the multi-tasking from the Ortega video appeared quite smooth and responsive.
Windows Mobile (WM): When it was originally reported that WM would ship on the device I was confused as to what could possibly be the advantages of such an approach. Samsung had already proven you could build a dialler and phone functionality into the OS so why waste time putting WM on there.
After seeing the video review it made perfect sense. Use WM to do the things you don’t need vista for or that WM can do due to its longer battery life. This seemed to make sense. Why boot up Vista with its limited lifespan when I could get plenty more WiFi, Media playing, Powerpointing, Emailing done right there in Windows Mobile. Leaving Vista for the higher end tasks such as work, proper editing, more in-depth outlook management, data management, and maybe even a game or two?
Unfortunately the latest news from GITEX 2007, and Kaz’s adventures there, seems to point to WM being nothing more than ‘an advanced BIOS with a modem (HSDPA) for push-email support’. I think this is a big mistake as crippling WM in such a way limits its potential to being just a weak sideshow feature to Vista. Whilst being able to access the weather information and get my emails from HSDPA is nice, I believe my vision of WM above would make more sense.
However, if its one thing WM communities have shown though is never say die when it comes to changing our devices to suit. Short of HTC limiting the WM partition or WM RAM, a sense of optimism for a cooked full version of WM might not be out of the question.
Voice Capabilities: HTC seem to have always taken the view that voice capabilities for this device do not exist. It seems to be a foregone conclusion, and whilst any feature is welcome, I question if anyone would truly replace their phone with this device had it the voice capabilities. Despite this its range of connectivity options and HSDPA is a leg above most UMPCs on the market.
The Screen: After Hugo’s review there were mixed interpretations of what native resolutions the device supported. This has been cleared up quite succinctly. The device will ship with 800x480. When questioned about using a lower resolution spec’d screen Middle East Operations Manager for HTC Kevin Chen had this to say:
‘The answer is simple. The screen is only 7" and since power consumption has to be low, HTC decided on the low resolution screen.’ [Source – Kaz’s Interview]
That answer actually makes the device sound sub-par, and whilst higher resolutions are always a nice treat there is something to be said along the lines of screen size. Releasing a device this late in 2007 with such a screen when the standard has clearly moved to 1024 is slightly disappointing but on the whole doesn’t diminish the device too much. As the CEO said it’s a 7” screen, 800x480 isn’t going to look shocking on that size device. People not use to an UMPC with a higher resolution are unlikely to be greatly phased, and (fingers crossed) the interoperated mode which upscales the screen to 1024x600 looked good on Hugos review. There is the distinct possibility that HTC may have got this right where other UMPC manufactures have persistently failed users.
HDD: The device now ships with a 40G drive and a 60G option, quite reasonable for the UMPC, but it has increasingly come under fire for not having SSD or at least the option. Whilst I agree the option would be nice, this is HTCs first foray into this market, especially in such a hybrid manner. I think it is understandable they haven’t opted for the SSD option due to simply not knowing how the device will go and what its profit margin will be in the end. SSD also runs against the prime criteria of this device, which from HTC seems to have been an extremely competitive price point. Whilst the exact price has not been confirmed, the places taking pre-orders are placing their bets on $1400-1600. SSD on average means an instant increase in price of $400-500 which would erode away any price edge HTC have over the competition with this device.
Battery Life: Despite being able to see alternatives or the upside of most of the specs and changes with the Shift I really can’t say I or anyone is impressed with 2 hours. Unless that is 2 hours with everything on and everything running non stop that one is left wonder where our 3hr standard went? Hugo reported 3Hrs in his review, and 3hrs is the least the community has come to expect from an UMPC. I’m not sure how HTC can reconcile this issue unless its 2 hours of maximum usability (ie everything on, everything being used for those whole 120mins). I would suspect it highly likely an XP version could be put on the device by the user (as it will not ship with XP) but whether this would increase the 2 Hrs significantly is unknown.
HTCs website for the shift says: “Why should I compromise?” and that’s an excellent question HTC, why should we compromise our UMPC experience with 2hours of battery life? I suspect you cannot win an UMPC argument armed with 2hours of battery life, and with that in mind I would ask them to answer that question for themselves. If the market has to answer it for HTC on this issue I wouldn’t be expecting a favourable outcome.[/b]
On the whole I think the majority of the Shifts specs are in line with current trends and what we might expect given the shifts criteria and this being HTCs first foray into such a market. But like most users the limited WM6 functionality diminishes my productivity hopes for the device, but I personally hold great hopes for the community to correct this. The battery issue is going to be a wait and see. One would highly suspect after 3 days with the device Hugo got a good idea of the battery life and if its turns out its 2hrs of maximum, full use than perhaps there’s hope, but just two hours in general falls too far short of the UMPC standard. In which case the Shifts splash is likely to be a painful bellyflop.
If this issue was however corrected or turns out to be the maximum usage or just a simple mistake than I see the shift being able to fulfil its role as an UMPC successfully. The device has unanimously been accredited the status of a sleek sexy, solid, well built device. The form factor, the potential of two operating systems and cpus make this a lethal device to the competition. The cellular options even without voice connect the device all the more.
HTC are playing a risky game delivering a device with these specs this late into 2007 where similar spec’d device have been out for some months now. As long as HTC can do something with the Battery life I feel confident the shift will still make a positive splash. Will it revolutionise the industry as first expected? Probably not. But it’s likely to still shake things up, in form factor, its connectivity options combined with the price point. The dual operating systems could also prove to be a big hit with the industry if they can function in a productive manner beyond the “limited version” were hearing about.
I had not been keeping up to date with the shift. If it is correct that there is no voice phone functionality then this device no longer has any potential for me. I was hoping to keep it around (big pocket, bag etc) and just use my bt headset to answer the calls. There is no way i will be carrying two devices on a regular basis, so if the shift can't call - I can't have it I still have hope because HTC have not removed the GSM from the description. Most people would take that to mean phone functionality.
All the other details are of less importance for how I intended to use it.
It seems the Shift is more of an UMPC than any hybrid in its current form. The cellular connections are all still there and the device can even recieve SMS based on the pics weve seen from GITEX however, voice capacities appear to have been removed/restricted.
Given the crippled version of WM included it seems HTC envision this as more of a UMPC than anything to do with a PocketPC which might entail phone functions.
That device was flawed from the beginning, 1) no call support on the windows mobile, 2) UMPC.
"After seeing the video review it made perfect sense. Use WM to do the things you don’t need vista for or that WM can do due to its longer battery life. This seemed to make sense. "
Brain dead, there's no sync between that windows mobile and vista(unless you use exchange which requires an internet connection*), and you'll have to carry a phone with you, so, why use the Shift to do what you can do on your really portable windows mobile phone?
*although broadly available it is a potential show stopper.
Get a 12" convertible tablet and a WM phone [period]
that's exactly what I have right now, but I just hate carrying two devices and even more I hate the time it takes to boot then connect through the phone. I just want to push on and use.
OdeeanRDeathshead said:
that's exactly what I have right now, but I just hate carrying two devices and even more I hate the time it takes to boot then connect through the phone. I just want to push on and use.
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Click to collapse
Well, If you see Hugo's video you know you'll take even more time to be up and ready with the Shift, even when resuming from hibernation like showed on the video, that thing isn't exactly an instant-on experience.
With a vista TPC you can resume from hibernation and connect through your WM device(in case you don't use a usb modem) much faster.
I also have that configuration I mentioned, tho it isn't a 12"(14"er), usb HSDPA modem - frees the WM device to do other things like moving away from the TPC w'out cutting its connection to the interwebs, and it also saves the battery of the WM device - and Trinity.
"I just hate carrying two devices"
It is really just the difference between the Shift's 7" and your 12" tablet since the WM device's weight and size is really irrelevant IMO.
The reason I say it makes sense to utilise the WM portion is because we don't all carry around 7" devices loaded with WM. Now the Advantage was fun to browse the web on and do everything else I listed, but the advantage is limited to being a WM device. The Shift has Vista to pick up where WM limitations kick in, or vice versa WM to kick in where UMPC battery life limits Vista.
I cannot help but feel people are expecting this device to be a notebook or tablet pc when its clearly an UMPC.
Apoc you list being an UMPC as its second flaw, its not a flaw its simply a fact of what the device is. Obviously if you want a bigger screen and a bigger device you'll carry around a tablet. However, there are those of us who want a small alternative to the tablet and this is it.
"Apoc you list being an UMPC as its second flaw, its not a flaw its simply a fact of what the device is."
Yeah, you're right.
resume/hibernate is not what I want. All my stuff is on truecrypt volumes and resuming breaks it. I would need to dismount each volume then mount it again after resume. I wanted a device that is always on but not necessarily doing anything. The way ppc wakes up when you push the on button or when a call comes in.
Anyway, the dream is over. I think the next best option is to find a small 3g card that will fit in my tablet with not much overhang. Telstra sell one but it is not on the correct band for my three account. Three's dongle looks like a mouse hanging out on its wire - not good.
You are right about the weight and size. What matters is the time. I use the devices at random times for short periods (20 minutes or less), If I have to spend 5 minutes getting ready then I could not be bothered to begin.
Another solution would be if the wm device could act as a modem even when off, the modem is not part of the windows hardware any way so it should be able to work. Unfortunately it does not. When I push the off button on the ppc my connection will last for about 30 seconds then disappears.
Hi,
Ive decided to go with Wm over UIQ3/S60 due to more software.
Ive never had a ppc, but i expect to do some tinkering in terms of software and maybe custom rom's
Turns out that choosing the os was the easy part.
Im now faced with hardware dilemmas. Sorry if this is long, but i dont want to throw away 400$ or more on a phone that may not meet my expectations
1. The devices i looked at range from 200mhz omap to about 500mhz from various chip makers. How noticeable is the cpu speed if a phone has the same ram?
2. Next is Ram, how important is it to have 128 megs??
3. last is Rom, how useful is this- cant u just dump progs to the expandable memory card. performance wise how diff are progs installed on the rom verses the expandable memory?
phones i am considering are gsm: htc touch, touch cruise, SE x1, asus p527/p750, lg ks20, glofiish x650/x600, toshiba g810, gsmart i3xx?, samsung i780. How crippling is the htc driver problem?
a) i kinda want my phone to have some metal on the case- will it get less scratches?
b) how useful are phones with just direction and 2 buttons-send/end call? how useful is a 9# keypad in real buttons? seems redundant with soft key option
c) Am i better off with the cheaper options to get used to wm rather the go for a more luxury option?
I plan to keep the phone for about 3 years.
also how useful is the wifi versus data plan( i am in Ontario Canada)?
i plan to use it to call long distance in Canada via Voip, as i am around wifi hot spots often.
Thank you to all who give me some input.
I'll chime in where I can:
2. Very important. I find that 64 is not enough and 128 is too much. If they made 96MB RAM it would be perfect. But noone does that I know of. Better to have too much than too little. Battery life will suffer a little (less power used for less memory).
3. It's pretty important. I have 256 MB ROM and after everything I only have 128 free. If you only had 128 to begin with, who knows how much you'd be left with? Some apps need to be installed in ROM and not Storage Card. Get 256 if you can.
b) I never really use any buttons other than on/off and talk/end. I have a hardware button setup for the today screen, which helps me because I use it alot.
Hope that helps!
That clears it up thank you wildcard.
Ths could eliminate some phones from my list.
Could anyone clear up processor speed for me, does it really make a diff given enough ram?
Also out of the phones I mentioned, is there a clear choice that satisfy me- ignoring the phones not yet released( x1, g810)?
Is there an gsm htc touch clone from o2 or whoever that mimics the CDMA version ( 400mhz, 128 ram)?
Don't take this as entirely factual but:
-64mb RAM is good, but I could have used 128mb. Battery life is affected, but I don't know how much.
-CPU probably has some effect, but 400mhz is standard and fine. 200mhz is probably much slower.
-There is no 400mhz/128MB RAM Touch clone for GSM
-Apps run faster from ROM. With only system utilities on my device and with the ROM made spring clean, I could not have more than 32 out of 49MB of free RAM left. 64 is really small, 128 is a minimum if you don't want to count on your card or keep extra fonts/voice commands/media.
-You MUST have Wi-Fi. What kind of sane Canadian would rely on data... probably a filthy rich one! Rogers is about to bring affordable unlimited data soon tho, but they say it will be for "a selected list of phones" which will probably exclude the very phones that need it IMO. iPhone whores...
-If you're not sure about Windows Mobile, try an emulator (found on microsoft website using google) for developers and surf around. It's far from what you can actually do with your device but it helps you see what it's all about.
You might want to try PalmOS if Wi-Fi and web browsing is not a necessity. I changed to WM and would never switch back, but some did the opposite and loved it.
Suggestion:
-TyTN / TyTN II have plenty of buttons+hardware keyboard, great for playing video game ROMs and games in general, but makes the device much thicker. You will love having lots of hardware buttons (one for flashlight, another for calendar then another for...)
-HTC Touch. It must be slower, but if you remove web browsing, heavy customization and the like, it will be a nice pocketable device. It's so damn cute compared to my fat TyTN (which I love). It only lacks more buttons and some power under the hood.
Thanks again.
Rogers has some sort of Rogers Vision Plan that includes data for 7$ still dont know much about it, its all new. I'd rather not pay anything extra LOL.
www.tryphone.com has a preview of palm os, but that doesnt interest me.
I couldnt figure out the windows mobile simulation from microsoft, but i did use a htc briefly in a store.
Anyways from whats been posted:
Avoid 200 mhz
Avoid anything less then 128 ram
Avoid anything less then 256 rom
This basically leaves HTC, Samsung, toshiba, Hp 610 and upcoming expensive X1.
---
From what i understand Rom flashing is basically reinstalling WM and bundling less progs with it? Am I correct?
Could any one point me into the direction of more info on ROM flashing?
How hard is it to make a custom Rom from scratch in case I go with a non HTC phone i.e. Samsung/ Eten / Asus .. i gather the other communities dont have it as rich as this one.
Avoid LG KS20 !
Hello andrey08,
There is one thing I can tell : do not buy a LG KS20 !. It is plagued by totally flawed display drivers : many GAPI apps do not work, and most DirectDraw ones do not.
Moreover, LG stripped from the ROM QTV support, so you will not have hardware accelerated video playing.
There is also a problem with the microphone while phoning, which stops functionning while switching between GSM and 3G bands.
Finally, their customer support is even worst than HTC's since they always pretend not being aware of these problems and do not plan to release a new ROM to correct anything when asked (since there is no problem according to them...).
I'm the poor owner of this piece of crap, and can not even resell it since it would be scam (you can't not even rely on it to phone !).
You can search the internet to confirm what I say : european forums are full of messages of angry customers. Our problem is that we can not have class actions in europe as in the US, and it is not an easy task to individually sue vodaphone or LG.
Lastly, concerning HTC recent products : if you read this forum, you will find that recent MSM7xxx HTC products are plagued by a very slow display. Compatibility and applications support seems OK though.
what about screen type
i know VGA is 4 times the display ability of QVGA, however whatsthe draw back of VGA
do all programs run on both VGA/Qvga screens??
whats the issue with video play back??
andrey08 said:
what about screen type
i know VGA is 4 times the display ability of QVGA, however whatsthe draw back of VGA
do all programs run on both VGA/Qvga screens??
whats the issue with video play back??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would go for a VGA phone every time, but the advantages are relatively subtle.
Most QVGA programs will work on VGA, either because they are natively supported, or they use pixel-doubling.
You won't notice much of a difference for most of the built-in programs apart from smoother fonts and cleaner icons. This can be hacked using something like realVGA, but I find the icons get too small for practical benefit, although YMMV.
VGA, however, definitely comes into its own when you are web-browsing or using the remote desktop client, because the increased resolution means that you can get a near-desktop experience.
The disadvantage is that VGA displays theoretically sap more battery, although I haven't found this to be a problem in practice. Video playback is also more dependent on what hardware you have on the device and whether there is any acceleration.
ZSX said:
I would go for a VGA phone every time, but the advantages are relatively subtle.
Most QVGA programs will work on VGA, either because they are natively supported, or they use pixel-doubling.
You won't notice much of a difference for most of the built-in programs apart from smoother fonts and cleaner icons. This can be hacked using something like realVGA, but I find the icons get too small for practical benefit, although YMMV.
VGA, however, definitely comes into its own when you are web-browsing or using the remote desktop client, because the increased resolution means that you can get a near-desktop experience.
The disadvantage is that VGA displays theoretically sap more battery, although I haven't found this to be a problem in practice. Video playback is also more dependent on what hardware you have on the device and whether there is any acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also make sure you read my (W)VGA-related articles & reviews - from MWC, I've posted a LOT on the brand new / forthcoming VGA devices (for example, the i-mate 9502, the x7510 etc)
andrey08 said:
Hi,
Ive decided to go with Wm over UIQ3/S60 due to more software.
Ive never had a ppc, but i expect to do some tinkering in terms of software and maybe custom rom's
Turns out that choosing the os was the easy part.
Im now faced with hardware dilemmas. Sorry if this is long, but i dont want to throw away 400$ or more on a phone that may not meet my expectations
1. The devices i looked at range from 200mhz omap to about 500mhz from various chip makers. How noticeable is the cpu speed if a phone has the same ram?
2. Next is Ram, how important is it to have 128 megs??
3. last is Rom, how useful is this- cant u just dump progs to the expandable memory card. performance wise how diff are progs installed on the rom verses the expandable memory?
phones i am considering are gsm: htc touch, touch cruise, SE x1, asus p527/p750, lg ks20, glofiish x650/x600, toshiba g810, gsmart i3xx?, samsung i780. How crippling is the htc driver problem?
a) i kinda want my phone to have some metal on the case- will it get less scratches?
b) how useful are phones with just direction and 2 buttons-send/end call? how useful is a 9# keypad in real buttons? seems redundant with soft key option
c) Am i better off with the cheaper options to get used to wm rather the go for a more luxury option?
I plan to keep the phone for about 3 years.
also how useful is the wifi versus data plan( i am in Ontario Canada)?
i plan to use it to call long distance in Canada via Voip, as i am around wifi hot spots often.
Thank you to all who give me some input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heartily recommend the MWC-based handset reviews I've posted in the last week into this very forum (i-mate, HP, Samsung etc)
Thanks i'll chekc it out.
im considering either an Eten x650 or MWg Atom V
reviews and such look good for both
Interesting device imo:
http://samsung.letstalk.com/product/product.htm?prId=35487
Running WinMo 6.1
It is not a phone , so in my opinion we have far better alternatives here on the board..
Please note, this device is not a phone and does not come with voice capability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Phen0m said:
Interesting device imo:
http://samsung.letstalk.com/product/product.htm?prId=35487
Running WinMo 6.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that was voice capable i would be all over it.
it has a microphone built in, so it could has the potential to be used as a phone as well. All that it needs is an app that would allow you to use voip
I've been lurking these boards for a long while (HP iPAQ hx4700 power user usually looking for cooked WM6.1 ROMs), but now I'm compelled to chime in for once.
We need more devices like this. NOT a traditional phone (we have way too many of those now), WiMAX if you want to subscribe to use it, large WVGA screen, only 450 US$ unsubsidized where most unlocked phones of this caliber are 600 US$ or more and with smaller screens...I could go on. (And having Windows Mobile 6.1 instead of 6.5 doesn't worry me at all because of these here forums.)
My hx4700 is getting long in the tooth; 64 MB of RAM does not cut it anymore, and it just can't run WM6.1 all that well, let alone WM6.5. This is the replacement device I've been looking for, so long as I can make sure that I can use it in portrait orientation. (All of the images I've seen of it are in landscape.)
I do not have a smartphone; I'm not even allowed to have one, or at least have one and use the phone bits. Why should I be forced to pay the premium for a phone modem I'll never use, and also suffer from the other disadvantages of the smartphone trend, like devices that have midget-sized screens to accomodate what would be considered an acceptable phone size? It wasn't until a few years ago that Windows Mobile smartphones in general could even stand on par with the HP iPAQ hx4700, or the Dell Axim X50v/X51v, or other such devices, and they were still way more expensive! (The HTC Universal was more the exception than the rule in terms of specs, but HTC has consistently failed to bring back that design...)
Show me a Windows Mobile smartphone with this basic size, form factor, and large WVGA screen, similar internal specs, and only a 450 US$ or less price tag WITHOUT SUBSIDY/CONTRACT, and maybe then I'll change my mind.
^^ Fragger, i have the Mondi & i absolutely love it! I'll go into detail or answer questions if you have any.. but this device would be a great to any winmo users lineup..Large screen/res, great keyboard, dedicated D-Pad, HDMI-out, GPS etc etc..
Also, its nearly the same size as an iphone, with a larger screen and physical keyboard:
4.8 x 3.03 x 0.63 5.8oz
4.5 x 2.4 x 0.48 4.8oz
Only downside so far is not having a community, as i would love to get WinMo 6.5 on this thing.
You have one now? Great! Now brace yourself for the questions...
-How's battery life? One of the things I like about my current hx4700 is that it's very long-lived, even on the stock battery.
-It does go into portrait mode like every other WM device, right? If so, can you set it up to be more like the HTC slider phones in the sense that closed keyboard = portrait, open keyboard = landscape?
-Built-in GPS, huh? Guess I may not need my Bluetooth GPS receiver (MTK-based, 5 Hz refresh rate, solar-charged), then. How's the initial acquisition time, accuracy, reception, and general latency? (I remember hearing a lot of complaints about lag on the integrated GPS on HTC Touch Pros. Different device, but I'd still hope that I wouldn't have that issue.)
-The format support sounds pretty robust out of the box, which is especially great since it has HDMI-out. Are you content with just Samsung's media player, or have you felt the need to break out TCPMP for certain files?
-Going along the lines of HDMI-out, I take it that it can output at least 720p over it with an H.264/AVC-encoded file and not have any dropped frames?
-The "great keyboard" bit sounds like it has good tactile feedback and a good layout, which is reassuring. Is there anything I may not catch about it at first glance? (For instance, while I doubt it has this feature, I really would like it if I could capitalize letters just by holding the key down instead of hitting Shift first. Never seen that trick implemented outside of the Palm Tungsten|C, and it really cuts down on the redundant keystrokes.)
-Does the build quality feel good throughout the device? Solid feel, no loose parts? Tight slider mechanism? That sort of thing?
-How does the digitizer feel? It's obviously resistive, but some resistive digitizers feel harder or softer than others.
-How could Samsung give out a specs list and NOT mention how much RAM (program memory) it has? Since you have it, you could probably give me an accurate figure. (I'm expecting at least 128 MB by now, but the more, the merrier-especially if it matches or exceeds the 288 MB on the HTC Touch Pro!)
-Can I get the normal Today screen in case I want to use PocketBreeze and/or iLauncher like I do on my hx4700? (The latter, I may be able to do without if Samsung customized it right, but I have to have PocketBreeze for easy PIM access.)
As for the lack of community, give it some time. The device just released, and even in spite of the general disinterest due to it NOT being a phone (actually one of the more compelling reasons for a few of us), I'm sure that someone with the skills has one and is working on how to flash a custom ROM onto it so we can enjoy some WM6.5. (I mean, the hx4700 and the Dell Axim X50v/X51v are still getting lots of attention in the Upgrades, Modifying, and Unlocking forum despite not being phones! Who's to say that the Mondi can't get that kind of love once someone opens the door?)
Some this stuff i will have to answer when i get off, but:
-How's battery life?
Thus far seems very good thus far & charges fast via usb or wall. I haven't done a full drain yet, but seems to be roughly 5 hours or so(this is watching video via orb)
-It does go into portrait mode like every other WM device, right? If so, can you set it up to be more like the HTC slider phones in the sense that closed keyboard = portrait, open keyboard = landscape?
Theres an option to auto-rotate in opera(accelerometer built-in), but i cant find an actual button that locks it in to portrait/landscape. The screen also doesnt auto rotate when u move it.
-The format support sounds pretty robust out of the box, which is especially great since it has HDMI-out. Are you content with just Samsung's media player, or have you felt the need to break out TCPMP for certain files?
I havent used samsungs media player only Kinoma thus far, but the video and audio output is very good imo(im not an audiophile however), the other device i own along these lines is the Nokia N810, and the sound on here is far superior.
-The "great keyboard" bit sounds like it has good tactile feedback and a good layout, which is reassuring. Is there anything I may not catch about it at first glance? (For instance, while I doubt it has this feature, I really would like it if I could capitalize letters just by holding the key down instead of hitting Shift first. Never seen that trick implemented outside of the Palm Tungsten|C, and it really cuts down on the redundant keystrokes.)
The tactile feedback is very good as well.. there is a slider that lets you control the strength.. however you cant just turn it on for the keyboard, its either on or off. The key's(hardware kb) cannot be capped by holding it down as theyre double mapped to symbols as well. There is a dedicated caps key though(on the hardware keyboard)
-Does the build quality feel good throughout the device? Solid feel, no loose parts? Tight slider mechanism? That sort of thing?
Build quality is superb, feels like a high quality smartphone.. good weight, smooth, no squeaks etc.
-How does the digitizer feel? It's obviously resistive, but some resistive digitizers feel harder or softer than others.
The screen feels similar to an HTC device.. soft, but not TOO soft, its also pretty accurate.
-How could Samsung give out a specs list and NOT mention how much RAM (program memory) it has? Since you have it, you could probably give me an accurate figure. (I'm expecting at least 128 MB by now, but the more, the merrier-especially if it matches or exceeds the 288 MB on the HTC Touch Pro!)
256 mem/4GB storage + MicroSD slot
-Can I get the normal Today screen in case I want to use PocketBreeze and/or iLauncher like I do on my hx4700?
Yes, set the Today screen to Windows default or Windows 6.1. There is also a dedicated "Home" key on the screen bezel that shoots you right to your desktop.
Anything i haven't answered above, i will when i get home later! There is also a blog on the front page of Pocketables.com that may answer so of these questions and more.
And yeah i'm hoping we can get a community of some capacity going on this device.. WM 6.5 on this hardware will be outstanding.
Oh, speaking of buttons, which ones can you rebind? And of those that can be rebound, how many let you press-and-hold for a different function? (For example, all of my hx4700's face buttons have a press function and a held function. Rotation is one of the held functions.)
As for no capping with a press-and-hold on the thumbboard because of symbols, that's no excuse because the Tungsten|C's thumbboard also has symbol mapping on all the letter keys, which had to be used with a shift/Fn button-that is, unless Samsung set it so that held keypresses trigger the symbols rather than capitalize letters. (Most thumbboards I've seen on pocket devices just repeat a letter when you hold the key down. I don't see much point in that.)
256 MB of RAM? That's enough for WM6.5 and then some! I could easily have a Web browser with a few tabs, media player, SoftMaker Office, and who knows what else going on at the same time with that much...
Normally, I'd complain about the microSDHC slot pretty hard, but the 4 GB of internal storage helps offset that and my largest full-size SD card is only 2 GB. (I only have one microSD card, and it's just 1 GB. Wouldn't really add anything significant.) In short, I could easily cram most of my music and videos on the internal flash alone. (What I don't like, though, is that they only have 90 MB or so set aside for apps. I'd like to see that doubled, perhaps even tripled so that I can have more apps installed there simultaneously, even if it does infringe on the rest of the storage mapped like a memory card. (Also, you can pass off the bulk of internal storage as a USB drive out of the box, right? No ActiveSync/WMDC needed?)
All in all, though, I'm beyond sold at this point. I just need 450 US$. (It'll probably be at least a month before I can afford it, though, and that's if I succeed in selling the hx4700 and all of its accessories for around 200 US$ or more.)
Oh, speaking of buttons, which ones can you rebind? And of those that can be rebound, how many let you press-and-hold for a different function?
Camera(short/long press)
IE explorer button(short/long)
Message(short/long)
Thats by default. I use an app called AEbutton plus that lets me remap everykey to my liking
And so far its a been a good purposeful purchase.. Office looks great on the screen, and kinetic scrolling is enabled throughout the entire o/s somehow(i dont remember 6.1 having kinetic scrolling in explorer etc. on my phones.)
Kinetic scrolling is also present in the Alkor RC 2.2 WM6.1 ROM for the hx4700. I don't know exactly where it came from, but it seems to be standard fare on new Windows Mobile devices. (I just wish I could disable it only in Resco Explorer 2007 and leave it on everywhere else, because it makes multi-selection difficult.)
Oh, almost forgot about the camera, since I'm not used to having one of those on a pocket computer. How's the quality, both for stills and video recordings? Is the camera button double-detent like on dedicated cameras (push it lightly for autofocus, push it down all the way to actually shoot)? Not common on devices like this, but I'm pretty sure one of the HTC phones (Kaiser/Tilt?) had just that.
I can just see myself with one of these right now. Does just about everything fairly well, can come with me where the TC1100 (Tablet PC) can't, and when Clearwire expands the Atlanta coverage to the point where I'm covered at home, I may end up with a VoIP phone and mobile information terminal down the road whenever I can afford the subscription, not to mention the possibilities with WMWifiRouter.
Finally, you said Kinoma. Free version, or pay version? Never experimented with the WM versions, but I did buy Kinoma Player 4 EX for the aforementioned Tungsten|C so that I could stream video over Wi-Fi with it. (It would be nice if they offered a discount for platform switches like that...)
orb3000 said:
this forum is for HTC devices only.
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Click to collapse
the thing looks good, but it's huge.
It's truly smaller than you think.. as i said.. it's not much bigger than an iphone:
http://www.pocketables.net/2009/07/samsung-mondi-size-comparisons.html
Phen0m said:
It's truly smaller than you think.. as i said.. it's not much bigger than an iphone:
http://www.pocketables.net/2009/07/samsung-mondi-size-comparisons.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your right, not as bad as i had assumed. don't think it will fit in my pocket though.
wonder what it looks like next to the Tp2.
-It does go into portrait mode like every other WM device, right? If so, can you set it up to be more like the HTC slider phones in the sense that closed keyboard = portrait, open keyboard = landscape?
Found a simple program that rotates the screen instantly
-Built-in GPS, huh? How's the initial acquisition time, accuracy, reception, and general latency?
It's very average.. in the route 66 program the locks are pretty swift, on googlemaps, livesearch(bing) they're very slow. I'm about to try igo and iguidance.
How's the quality, both for stills and video recordings? Is the camera button double-detent like on dedicated cameras (push it lightly for autofocus, push it down all the way to actually shoot)?
The camera is either exactly like the Touch Pro's or slightly below that.. it's not great by any stretch and has no flash unfortunately. The upside is that there are two of them on board for skypeing, videoconferencing, webcam shows etc.
Finally, you said Kinoma. Free version, or pay version? (It would be nice if they offered a discount for platform switches like that...)
Pay version via trialpay: http://kinoma.com/play/
Whatever trial you signup for, just cancel it before the trial period ends.
The only thing that Samsung Mondi's got going for me is the large screen and that it's capable of fitting in the pant pocket.
so its not a phone, but it has a mic? :/
sightpress said:
so its not a phone, but it has a mic? :/
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No traditional radio onboard, but it can be usable as a VOIP phone.
And I'm thankful that there isn't a traditional phone radio onboard to jack the price up with something that I don't need. (If it did have the phone radio, it would cost 600+ US$ unsubsidized easily, not 450 US$.) VoIP is the future anyway, especially when WiMAX coverage starts spreading out.
Another question: how does it handle apps that aren't made for the extra width (generally 320x240 or 640x480)? They just run letterboxed, right? (Anything based on the standard Windows Mobile UI would just have extra dead space, I know that much.)
I still haven't been fortunate enough to use one, and I'm still well short of affording one, but I'll scrounge up the cash somehow. (I just need to find a willing buyer for my old Tungsten|C and my hx4700. Won't get me there all the way, but it'll help a lot.)
Mondi
I got the Mondi after looking for something like it for two years. I needed the largest possible pocketable screen plus hardware keyboard for a couple applications I run and resistive stylus for Chinese handwriting input. Mondi fit most of my needs perfectly and I've found I even do most of my voice calling using Mondi+voip. The only thing I hesitated on before buying and still don't have an answer for is how much of the XDA stuff I'll be able to take advantage of given this is a WM Classic device and Samsung Touchwiz-2 instead of HTC. Does anyone know whether I'll be able to use any of the WM 6.5 stuff from XDA or does having "Classic" put me out of luck?
BTW, I paid $359 for mine which is around what an iPaq 211 goes for.
Its time to replace my raphael, its starting to show the wear for the tear. Im looking for a winmo or android phone with a keyboard and a headphone jack that does att 3g. I'm pretty ticked that the new att rhodium dosnt have a headphone jack. Is there anything out there?
That small detial on the Rhodium with no 3.5mm jack is nothing!, also some USA models have it
Or you can buy a tiny adapter and with it you´ll have the best hardware keyboard device to this date!
hardware keyboard is very important (at least for me) as to this date not any virtual kb gives you the comfortability and typing speed as a normal one.
I suggest you to take a look in the last 2 categories of this list: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/
The best for you would be to go to a big electronics warehouse and play with different phones for a while.
It is amazing how many new and cool phones have been developed in 2009, specially since middle of this year.
You should definitly take a look at the Nokia N900, as well as try out modern smartphones without keyboard (iPhone 3GS, all the Android phones, etc.).
It is amazing to notice that a keyboard is not that essential anymore, when the phone features a high-resolution screen (480x320 to 800x480!) and excellent touch-screen. Don't pay too much attention if it is capacitive or whatever technology - try them all out and see for yourself.
HTC alone has so many different devices, one really gets confused, wishing one could buy them all.
But then there is Acer catching up with some pretty cheap, yet cool devices, with great screens.
Buying a phone today should take into consideration:
- price (can you afford it)
- screen estate (it's never big enough / resolution high enough)
- fast CPU (nothing is more anoying than lag)
- functionality (messaging/outlook/internet/youtube/office/whatever you need)
All I wanted to say is that these points fit to much more phones then lets say one year ago. And Windows Mobile is not the only player anymore.
Cheers,
vma
So i just read a review of the X1, and its a fuze with a headphone jack and a bigger screen... anyone else out there vouch for the X1?
That review is very good.
I'm now thinking to buy one
coming from the x1 i must say it was a complete waste of my money. of course its much cheaper now.
first few months of usage was great but then slowly the it just fell apart.
the keyboard became unresponsive, phone hangs and lags much.
even after repair the keyboard slowly became screwed up again.
and the last month i was using it, even the touchscreen became unresponsive occasionally. and im not a rough user at all.
but thats just my take on it.
as far as wm/android phones with 3.5mm and keyboard, theres samsung omniapro b7610. and upcoming xperia x2 and motorola droid.
Take a look at the Motorola Droid...
But, wanting that 3.5 jack eliminates so many better PPC's!
At the top of any page at XDA-Developers, there's a link called "Device Database". Click on this, then at the top of that page, choose "PDAChooser". Then, input all the parameters you want. For example, I checked "Audio Out", "Keyboard", "Integrated Cellular Phone", "Any" (under supported cellular data links), and I set "Pos. Device" to "Touchscreen". That returns quite a few results. Then, all you have to do is pick any device from those results and see if it runs an OS you like and uses AT&T 3G bands.
I'm looking for an Android phone, which fulfils all the following expectations:
Can be rooted and the bootloader can be unlocked [may require manual unlocking]
at least 5" display [may be a little less but not much]
fluidly running Android 5 (may be unofficial but stable) Very likely upgrades to newer Android versions.
And as many as possible from the following ones [assume they're equally important]
Slide-out QWERTY keyboard available. May use BT, NFC, I2C but should be a slide-out. May be be attachable, may be an extra accessory
Drivers decent enough, so as to be able to set up some alternate OS with libhybris.
Easy to disassemble and replace broken parts, especially the broken screen
A notification LED or an AMOLED display (both appreciated but not required)
At least 16G of built-in space (32G appreciated)
Price is an important factor for me. But I use phones for a very long time, (have used my Nokia N900 for 5 years now) so I may treat the phone as a longer-term investment.
I'll probably be spending much time in the terminal, hence I care about the hardware keyboard. I'm a hacker soul I'll probably be using the Debian chroot, ssh, vnc. Linux user.
I don't really care that much about the looks of the phone My phones fall a lot on the floor, so I'm not for an ultrafragile phone.
I need a decent camera (my current 5MP/720p N900 is ok. I don't count the megapixels, more interested in overall quality). Must be a phone.
I'm a Google-skepticist, so have nothing against it shipping Cyanogen, AOSP, etc as long as the functionality remains the same.
I don't do selfies, don't care about the front camera at all.
I know about Fairphone2 which fulfils everything but the hardware keyboard (it was mentioned as a possible extension but nothing real appeared yet). And is quite expensive (525€, plus accessories). Is there any chance it gets cheaper during the next year?
Would you suggest anything? Feel free to ask about my attitude to some functionality, which I care about and which not at all.
Thanks!
Hi,
There's a dedicated thread for such questions here, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1620179
Many opinions to be had there, so I'll close this thread. :good: