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When the X1 was first announced, I was all over it. Then the Touch Pro with TF3D was announced, and I thought... the X1 is too 'raw' compared to the 'slick' Touch Pro, so Touch Pro for me!
Then I tried the FUZE (AT&T's Touch Pro) and I was disappointed in a few areas where I was not expecting to be disappointed (details below).
So, as it stands today, I am leaning back toward the X1 over the FUZE (TP). But it's a close call, and I'm still undecided. Here’s why:
1. Xperia hardware looks like a device that I would be proud to be paired with. In other words, just like Apple, Sony understands that a gadget can also be a fashion accessory. That’s a 2-fer in terms of value-add.
2. I have found the FUZE to be too heavy and bricky to be really pocket-friendly. This was a major disappointment when I checked it out at AT&T last week! I was all ready to buy the FUZE when I realized that it would take a serious adjustment to have that kind of weight and thickness in my pocket. It remains to be seen how I feel about the X1’s weight and thickness (since it's not released yet in the States). But, in terms of the specs published, the X1 looks to be about .5oz lighter than the FUZE. NOTE: The FUZE for some odd reason seems to be .5oz heavier than the Sprint Touch Pro and the HTC Touch Pro. No idea why.
3. The X1 has more hard buttons on the front panel, and more easily pressed hard buttons on the front panel. I have heard serious complaints about the “up” arrow on the X1 d-pad, but I will have to see for myself if that is insurmountable. I have played with FUZE, and the front panel buttons are not confidence-inspiring. I feel like it’s a negotiation with each press of the dpad.
4. The absence of the g-sensor on the X1 is stunning, and quite disappointing. What a huge bummer. What the heck was Sony thinking? G-sensors = cool + fun. Xperia = cool+fun. What am I missing?
5. The FUZE is about $175 w/plan on AT&T, and the X1 will be around $700 retail in a few weeks (with coupons, etc.). Yikes, that’s not a marginal difference in price, is it? I’m not sure I can justify a 4x price difference for a phone that is about 1.5x as good. Or, can I? Well, it’s like buying clothing: I can spend $200 on a shirt or $10 on a shirt. They both cover my torso about as effectively, but which one do I want people to see me paired with? This goes back to the gadget-as-accessory frame.
6. Panels. I figured they would be a dead platform as soon as 09, but the new facebook panel could be a game-changer. It shows how Panels could be the equiv to iPhone apps! Will panels have market mojo? What incentives are Sony peddling for developers to get on board? What kind of penetration can panels have if limited to only 1 device? Very chicken/egg situation here, and kind of a risk for X1 owners if they are relying on panels to breathe life into WM6.1.
7. TouchFlo 3D on X1. If this really ends up being portable to the X1 with 100% functionality and no bugs, then the X1 ends up being the more flexible device of the two. But 100% compatibility seems to be a ways off still, for many good reasons. Conversely, it is highly unlikely for several reasons that the TP would ever get panels. Sure, they might be portable over to the TouchPro HD, but that’s not the TP/FUZE, is it?
8. Keyboards. I’ve read some horrific reviews of the X1 keyboard, but they’ve been scattered and not consistent. So, I guess I’ll have to wait to actually try one myself to see how bad it really is. I tested out the FUZE keyboard, and I know it gets rave reviews, but coming from my HTC S710/Vox, I found the lack of space between the keys troubling. I’m sure I’d get used to it, but it seems like the X1’s layout (with spaces between keys) is more like my S710’s layout, which I find quite comfortable to type on. I am quite concerned about the lack of tactile feedback on the X1 keyboard, though. If there’s no feedback, then what’s the point of a hardware keyboard? Again, reviews have not been satisfactory around this aspect of the X1, so I’ll have to wait to see for myself.
9. Touchiness. I found the FUZE to be fiddly with touch sensitivity. Too often, a swipe was interpreted as a select, which was quite annoying. I've read that the X1 has a better touch experience, but that will be something I'll have to xperience myself, I guess.
10. Screen rotation. OK, big minus for X1 to have no G-sensor, but big plus for X1 for its apparent "instant switch" technology between landscape and portrait modes! I've seen some videos and it's quite impressive in Opera. One of the reasons why I 'dread' to go to my slide-out keyboard on my S710 is due to the lag. It's just painful to wait. If there were no "wait tax" on using the slide-out keyboard, I might go to it more readily.
11. Dpad+ features. The FUZE has the circular zoom thang, and the X1 has the glidey thing. No idea which is preferable. Both are interesting in their own way.
So, this is where I am right now re: X1 v. FUZE. To be honest, I am kind of looking for excuses to cheap out and get the FUZE just so I'm not spending $700 on a friggin phone. But the thickness and weight are things that I'd have to adjust to.
Does anyone have any thoughts/comments/additions to this analysis?
Jon
[cross-posted on Xperia X1 and Raphael forums so I can get both viewpoints]
I too was stuck between the X1 and Touch Pro. But I think the X1 hideous. The specs are pretty much the same but you lose the G sensor and only gain .2in of screen. But the 3in screen is narrower then the TP so it looks smaller when your looking at the phone the in one hand. But they keyboard is what really killed it for me :-(.
I just returned my Xperia and should have my Fuze from Amazon tomorrow. I loved everything about Xperia except the buttons below the screen. I just couldn't accept that quality on a $700 phone. I got Fuze only as a short-term toy as it cost me only $100 after $25 rebate from Amazon. I plan to sell it as soon as I see something more impressive. Maybe N97, or an Android phone. Whatever it is, it should have 3G on AT&T as I am stuck with AT&T for 2-years.
My experience with Xperia in 2-weeks:
Tried all kinds of customizations from XDA including TF3D, spPanel skins, Youtube, XperiaTweeks, etc. In the end, I discovered Xperia out the box with just the following customizations makes it a beast of a phone if the front buttons don't bother you as much as they bothered me.
1. XperiaTweaks has to be the best. It lets you customize some little annoying things with Xperia like increasing font size, sorting contacts by FirstNames, default panel on startup
2. Blackstone Keyboard
3. Youtube installed as a panel
4. Facebook Panel
I was totally impressed by TouchFlow3D as a panel as it has a WOW factor to it. But, each day I found myself going back to the Sony Ericsson Panel that I customized with weather, e-mails, RSS feeds, calendar, etc. Eventually, I made that as the default panel to start by Xperia using XperiaTweaks. Eventually, I un-installed the TF3D's as the Landscape fix program I installed for TF3D seems to be causing problems with my phone when I slideout the keyboard.
Some issues (some minor) I had with Xperia.
1. I could not reconnect to the Bluetooth of my GPS unit in my car if I stepped away for a short time with my phone. This didn't happen with my W910 phone. To get the Bluetooth work I had to restart my Xperia and even the GPS unit all the time.
2. Build quality of the buttons below the screen.
3. Sometimes I found myself sliding out the keyboard as I was holding the bottom part of phone hard.
4. Hard to select menu's with finger. Ended up getting used to D-pad.
5. The Picture ID on my W910 shows a picture that covers almost half the screen and I can easily see while on Xperia the picture is about the size of a penny and is almost useless. The call logs also show the names so tiny and is almost impossible to go through the call logs while driving.
I would go for the Touch Pro
The best phones I have ever had were Sony Ericssons (T637, P910a) and I too lusted after an Xperia but...
1. SE is dying or dead already
2. SE and HTC are, reportedly, parting ways
3. There isn't and won't be enough units running the panels interface to make it attractive for developers to bring apps
So, if you spend the $ on the Xperia, you'll be sitting on the sidelines, watching windows mobile for VGA developers aping the cool apps coming for the iPhone and wishing that more than just a small percentage would work on your SE.
Just my $0.02.
TouchPro vs. X1
I too was lusting after the SE X1 after it was announced (about a year ago) and said "that is my next phone".
I read website after website with videos, reviews/previews, etc.. and I couldn't have been more excited for "my phone" to be released here in the states.
Well....it came time for a decision a few months ago and the X1 still wasn't widely available in the states so I waited....and waited. Delay after delay from SE and the comparisons for the TouchPro and X1 were starting to trickle out and they weren't looking good for the X1. Yeah, the panel interface was amazing if utilized proficiently but the interface was laggy. The phone was expensive and the keyboard was terrible.
I was coming from a Hermes (8525) so I was fairly pleased with my existing keyboard and once I saw the Sprint version of the TP I was hooked. The keyboard is brilliant. For someone who emails/txt dozens of times/day the new TPO keyboard is a HUGE time saver. Long gone are the days of softkey input for special commonly used characters "@", "(", ")", etc.. This just made for a more streamlined user experience. The X1 is restricted by having only four rows of keys. The same as my Hermes.
Yeah, the X1 has the panels and that gorgeous screen (and it is beautiful!) but with the exact same internals I see no real world benefit in owning one.
Just my opinion.
JC
I'll offer my insight point by point as I feel qualified to respond...
JonDeutsch said:
2. I have found the FUZE to be too heavy and bricky to be really pocket-friendly. This was a major disappointment when I checked it out at AT&T last week! I was all ready to buy the FUZE when I realized that it would take a serious adjustment to have that kind of weight and thickness in my pocket. It remains to be seen how I feel about the X1’s weight and thickness (since it's not released yet in the States). But, in terms of the specs published, the X1 looks to be about .5oz lighter than the FUZE. NOTE: The FUZE for some odd reason seems to be .5oz heavier than the Sprint Touch Pro and the HTC Touch Pro. No idea why.
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FUZE size is a bit awkward at first...I switched to it from an iPhone, but after about 3 days it was only natural. In a way, I always liked a bit larger / heavier phone because you know its there. Every smaller / skinnier phone i've had (compared to the fuze or 8125) I often felt naked with even when it was in pocket.
JonDeutsch said:
3. The X1 has more hard buttons on the front panel, and more easily pressed hard buttons on the front panel. I have heard serious complaints about the “up” arrow on the X1 d-pad, but I will have to see for myself if that is insurmountable. I have played with FUZE, and the front panel buttons are not confidence-inspiring. I feel like it’s a negotiation with each press of the dpad.
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Fuze dpad is very awkward at first...but it becomes second nature in no time flat - i have no problem navigating in the dark at this point.
JonDeutsch said:
4. The absence of the g-sensor on the X1 is stunning, and quite disappointing. What a huge bummer. What the heck was Sony thinking? G-sensors = cool + fun. Xperia = cool+fun. What am I missing?
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bummer that its missing - but at the same time, theres no real item that the fuze is taking advantage of it with so far. beyond the wow factor of labyrinth for about 5 minutes....
JonDeutsch said:
5. The FUZE is about $175 w/plan on AT&T, and the X1 will be around $700 retail in a few weeks (with coupons, etc.).
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damn thats expensive...
JonDeutsch said:
8. Keyboards. I’ve read some horrific reviews of the X1 keyboard, but they’ve been scattered and not consistent. So, I guess I’ll have to wait to actually try one myself to see how bad it really is. I tested out the FUZE keyboard, and I know it gets rave reviews, but coming from my HTC S710/Vox, I found the lack of space between the keys troubling. I’m sure I’d get used to it, but it seems like the X1’s layout (with spaces between keys) is more like my S710’s layout, which I find quite comfortable to type on. I am quite concerned about the lack of tactile feedback on the X1 keyboard, though. If there’s no feedback, then what’s the point of a hardware keyboard? Again, reviews have not been satisfactory around this aspect of the X1, so I’ll have to wait to see for myself.
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Click to collapse
The keyboard feels cramped at first, but you adjust in a very short amount of time....again, several days and you wont think twice of it...probably? lol
JonDeutsch said:
9. Touchiness. I found the FUZE to be fiddly with touch sensitivity. Too often, a swipe was interpreted as a select, which was quite annoying. I've read that the X1 has a better touch experience, but that will be something I'll have to xperience myself, I guess.
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Click to collapse
I had the same problem with the stock rom...however, with tf3dconfig tweaks (or registry edits directly should you so choose) it responds MUCH nicer and I no longer run into these problems. There may also be a small degree of "self training" on this one.
JonDeutsch said:
11. Dpad+ features. The FUZE has the circular zoom thang, and the X1 has the glidey thing. No idea which is preferable. Both are interesting in their own way.
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circle zoom is no iphone multitouch, but it works pretty damn well with opera in my experiences. Also nice for text size in messages etc.
I think from your feelings, you may be best off getting the fuze and using it for a while, and maybe picking up a used X1 down the line. That said, ive never even got to hold an X1...but i have trouble imagining its worth 2-4x the price of the fuze. But...if its really a fashion / toy thing to you - you could very well feel differently.
While some may argue you should have no initial complaints with a device - and that may be true, but it isnt the reality today with 99% of phones for 99% of people - its sort of expected you have some gripes with some aspects. That said, most of your feelings seem spot on with things that I initially pandered about but soon adjusted to. I was just happy to have service in my living and travelling area again (goddam iphone...)
I also think kitsVA, dgduris, and jcotterman all hit very VERY valid points on the software side of thigns, so I will not bother getting into that.
good luck in whatever your decision may be!
I went through this dilemma too. I calculated that I would save around $200 if I went for a used TP rather than a used xperia. With $150-200, you could get an unlimited data plan for a year, or buy a working GPS, etc. etc.
The touch pro isn't bad if you don't wear tight pants. I have a wallet which is much larger in dimension than my TP! I come from a very thin razr I once fit in my pocket and the change didn't both me.
Good luck with your choice!
I'm shopping for my next cell phone and after looking over the selection on letstalk.com I decided on the Fuze. Initially my only hard requirement was a real slider style QWERTY keyboard, not those sorta-qwertys that the blackberries have and not the fully exposed ones that don't tuck away. I want something I can text comfortably on and not be pecking around in menus trying to find special characters. I was very impressed by both the robust keyboard and the PC-like features of the Fuze, particularly the high-res screen, wifi, and its ability to do remote desktop (awesome for someone like me who uses RDP constantly.)
So the Fuze was starting to sound like slam-dunk until I decided to research it further here and found the cpu/driver/qualcomm thread, battery life and other assorted complaints about this phone. They're certainly not deal-breakers given all the good things about the phone, but before I buy it anyway I wanted to ask for suggestions for an alternative. What would you get if you wanted a great slider qwerty and remote desktop, but didn't want to settle for the Fuze?
The Raphael(Fuze) is the best WinMo PPC hardware qwerty slider around. I still bought mine despite knowing the problems. It's possible that HTC/Qualcomm releases better drivers or an SDK in the future if we pester them enough, so there's even hope for future performance improvements. Plus the xda-dev community is very active with cooked ROMs, there at least 3 or 4 excellent ROMs you can choose from, and they are updated frequently.
nodnod...
That was pretty much exactly what I expected to hear. At least now I can buy this awful piece of junk guilt-free.
Update
Have had my Fuze for about a week now, so far not all that impressed. I already need to return it because the lcd has screen color problems (color ghosting, intermittent monochrome r/g/b) so I haven't tried flashing any roms or radios, tho I have gone thru the basic stock-rom, no-bloat noob setup a few times and tried out just about every interesting freeware app i could find.
I asked a friend to try out the browser on his iPhone. It started so fast, and browsed so smoothly. Mine lags at every single little action - scrolling the screen, zooming, clicking a link... painfully slow. However I found that entering text on his iphone was even more painful.
The main feature I liked from the start about the TP is the ability to do real remote desktop - a lifesaver for someone who's got remote servers to manage, AND a life outside of work. I haven't done anything too complicated thru RDP yet, just kinda played with the start menu - which I noticed has weird text issues at this resolution. However I was still very impressed by this functionality and this is where the vga resolution of this phone really shines.
I've been thinking about asking for a different handset when I send this one back, but still not found one that meets my needs and has a hardware keyboard. Seems like we are still a few iterations away from having a truly well-made, useful pocket pc phone so I may just get it replaced by the same model.
Other minor things I didn't like about it: Entire thing is extremely heavy and fragile, weird diamond-cut back causes certain spots to lose their paint immediately, battery life DOES suck despite what some say, phone back has to be removed to switch out microsd cards, no 1/8" audio out and you NEVER have that dongle adapter when you want it.
rcll said:
The Raphael(Fuze) is the best WinMo PPC hardware qwerty slider around. I still bought mine despite knowing the problems. It's possible that HTC/Qualcomm releases better drivers or an SDK in the future if we pester them enough, so there's even hope for future performance improvements. Plus the xda-dev community is very active with cooked ROMs, there at least 3 or 4 excellent ROMs you can choose from, and they are updated frequently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This does not sound like the HTC I know.
The only real next step up is the Xperia. However, the X1 has a lot of differences that would be a big turn off for me. X1 seems to be a much better build quality though.
Largest problems being WVGA (always a pain even with the WVGA <-> VGA work around) and the price.
behrouz said:
This does not sound like the HTC I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, there are few companies that would be willing to deploy a major software update like this once the unit is already selling. The only hope for this model is if the proprietary driver code could be leaked from qualcomm and incorporated into a rom.
I called the LetsTalk.com customer service line and asked if they could cross-ship me a new fuze so I wouldn't be without a phone for several days. They said yes but for some reason the deposit amount is equal to the retail value of the fuze PLUS a bunch more money for reasons which I did not quite understand due to the phone rep's "dialect" of english. So I now have an $850 (!) hold on my credit card (which happens to be my personal checking account) until the phone swap is completed.
WOW BREAKING NEWS
Touch Pro 2 News From engadget.com (http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/16/htc-touch-pro2-is-awesome-in-ways-the-touch-pro-never-could-be/)
So, how do you make HTC's Touch Pro -- already near the top of the WInMo heap -- an even beefier device? For starters, you can throw out that nasty VGA screen of yesteryear and up it with a 3.6-inch 800 x 400 replacement. Next, add a dedicated touch-sensitive zoom slider that works overtime to take maximum advantage of said screen, then throw in a few key carryovers: 512MB of ROM, 288MB of RAM, microSD expansion, and a 3.2 megapixel cam. Meet the Touch Pro2, the official follow-up to HTC's popular series of QWERTY sliders that introduces so-called "Straight Talk" technology for "seamlessly" transitioning conversations between email, single-line calls, and party calls. It'll also automatically switch to the crazy high-performance, full-duplex speakerphone simply by flipping the phone over, so it's clear that this bad boy was meant for business. It'll launch early in the second quarter in parts of Asia and Europe with other "major global markets" following in early Summer.
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Click to collapse
DETAILED INFORMATION HERE: http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=83956
I just wish it had tv-out or I'd get it (or the diamond2) I guess I'm the one who uses that feature a lot on my omnia.
Edit: My bad... It DOES have tv-out))
awesome..
now i know why peoples selling their phones
Support HTC
The TouchPro 2 seems more like the Tytn II replacement to me,
I LIKE.
The touch pro is more business oriented. . . so it probably wont have alot of media features were hoping it has .
A dump promise
Hopefully, someone will soon get their hands on these units to dump the ROMs and port them to Touch Diamond and Touch Diamond Pro.
1-very nice but the lack of d-pad and other buttons is annoying as hell.
2-lets hope the fix the very very poor performance of the diamond this time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
3-also software,themes,apps development forums will be too segmented. diamond ,diamont2,tpro,tpro2, blackstone,x1 are all very similar phones(internally). is there a clean and logical way to combine them.
4-whats the code names of these two devices
very nice. Shame they wont work for more than about 3 minutes before something falls off/a random onboard chip of some random nature starts to malfunction.
HTC, design phones then get someone decent to manufacture them.... you cant manufature for toffe.
"...something falls off". Please explain. I've had the Diamond for 2/3 of a year now and nothing has "fallen off"....
In my opinion, the build quality of HTC products is impeccable.
Monty Burns said:
very nice. Shame they wont work for more than about 3 minutes before something falls off/a random onboard chip of some random nature starts to malfunction.
HTC, design phones then get someone decent to manufacture them.... you cant manufature for toffe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My experience of HTC hardware is far from good. BlueAngel (dead speaker), two TyTN's, one TyTN II and now a TD - all and i mean ALL of them have had at least one warranty repair or replacement. Actually , thats a lie: TD was sent back for a full refund under UK consumer law as "Not Fit For Purpose" as at the time there was no way to play music without the famous skipping/pause issue.
Just fire up google and use terms like "HTC" "hardware" "fault" "Issue" and so on .... you'll soon see what a timebomb of a device you have.
My Toshiba G900 and now Omnia have restored my faith in Smartphones and there reliability.
thats odd....my TyTNII(Kaiser, from USA) has been nothing short of amazing, and it has taken its share of nasty falls!
anyone know what carrier in the U.S will be providing the TP2??
im praying its AT&T, Its almost time for an upgrade, and I think im in love
Perhaps you got some Gremlins
My HTC phones all work like they did on their first day. I didnt have any hardware Problems and the software problems where solved by this nice Community.
Ok, i hve to admit that HTC really doesnt care that much software-wise... I bet they wont release proper drivers for these devices either...
Thats no problem for me though, as i wont buy another arm or qualcom based Smartphone anyway. Im up for atom-powered voice capable MIDs now.
Hmmm. Quite fancy the Pro 2. Shame it doesn't have a slightly beefier processor though. I'm sure these will be replaced by Snapdragon or Tegra devices shortly after I buy one!
i opened a similar thread but it's closed cause i was to slow
now my question again
what's that "zoom bar" supposed to do
but if HTC devices are built so horribly, why use them over and over?
operative1 said:
i opened a similar thread but it's closed cause i was to slow
now my question again
what's that "zoom bar" supposed to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my guess its just the touchwheel from diamond and tpro. not that usuful if you ask me since they could have added more usfel buttons with dpad or remove it for the sake of bigger screen or just remove it to make the phone smaller.
Copy from Raphael Thread
My thoughts:
1. First thing I thought was: I wonder if there will be some way to buy this from AT&T without breaking my contract? I mean, what do they do for people who got a 2-year contract with the original iPhone, and then a year later they want the new iPhone?
2. Longer battery life and a bigger screen are very welcome.
3. I hope that keyboard is a mock-up. Also, I can't imagine using a non-Fuze keyboard, let alone one of those 3-row keyboards most phones have, but it's just way too convenient to have all those punctuation marks available top row.
4. I wonder when this phone will reach stateside.
5. I wonder why the phone's specs aren't improved?
6. I wonder why it's not all-black. It better just be a mockup.
7. Almost Touch HD-sized screen, and the TYTTN II tilt *drools*
But really, it took an entire year for the Touch Pro to come out in the states, so who is really banking on this thing coming out by Summer? And what will AT&T do when I'm willing to give them 300 more dollars for the Touch Pro II, and I still have a contract?
Sure, it's not the improvement we'd all have made. Not more RAM, not a better processor, or drivers... but it's still an improvement over the Touch Pro (unless that isn't a mockup keyboard, in which case I may cry over the colour scheme and the fact that there are LESS KEYS on that phone than the existing Touch Pro) and I'll take it. Plus, the front-facing D-Pad is a pain to use anyway that I just open it up and use my Keyboard D-Pad.
Good point...
drama2747 said:
but if HTC devices are built so horribly, why use them over and over?
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Click to collapse
When will we see some dedicated forums for these devices...? moderators...?
HANDS ON VIDEOS
I'm fallin' in love... no kiddin
good to see the phone in action...all though i was tempted to mute the sound lol
After owning HTC phones now for over 3 years, when will HTC start listening to people on forums like this one and htcpedia.com, then start making phones with the features that we are asking & waiting for. And just as important when will they start making accessories for these phones. Now owning a Touch HD for over a year I was looking at getting the new HD2, but it appears the mini usb port still does not support music or porting video through it (this is also true on the Touch HD yes I was disappointed when I found out). I would also like to have a built in FM transmitter. I think HTC are missing out on a great future for their phones.
Jez
P.S come on HTC sit up and take notice.
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Livven said:
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Click to expand...
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Hello Livven
Not crying just disappointed with HTC and thinking maybe it’s time to change, to a phone producer that is listening ,it appears that’s exactly what apple are doing. Been in touch with HTC direct about a month after I got the Touch HD asking them to include certain things on the next model and a year later the HD2 was launched which appears to be a big screen HD with no more capabilities.
Cheers jez
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
markgamber said:
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Mark
I hear your frustration about the eXpo....I bought a IQ from Telus (the Canadian version of the eXpo) and really didn't like the UI AT FIRST. But the phone has really grown on me. Maybe you should consider keeping it for a couple of weeks, and then giving it back if you still want to.
1) I now find I am figuring out the UI and I am starting to like it. Using Throttle Launcher(free) or Spd Shell($) are both options that are very similar to the TF3D or Sence UI if you really find you want to abandon the S Class UI but I would say try it for a week or two and you may like it...there are things you can do faster than TF3D as well as slower.
2) The stylus situation really sucks. No argument. I have found that after I set my phone up, I can get by without one especially when you figure out how to use the optical mouse functions.
3) GPS I am on Telus, so maybe AT&T has screwed you, but my Garmin Mobile XT software works just fine on my Telus phone. I did have to play a bit though. I installed the Garmin software, and it couldn't find the GPS. I then went into the windows settings, and set up the phone to use COM port 4, and then went into the Garmin setup and selected COM4. STILL no joy. But I then changed the Windows setting back to controlled by windows, and the Garmin software found a "GPS Intermediate Driver". Works great! Locks FAST, and no lag like when I used the Garmin Mobile XT on my Touch Pro.
I have installed Opera Beta 2U, and it with the HSPDA data and the snapdragon it is simply is the best mobile internet experience I have ever used or seen.
Good luck with you Phone hunting,
Hi jez.stix
I have a similar list to you...I got a Telus IQ (Its a Canadian eXpo)
How the IQ compares to your list:
1. winmo
YUP 6.5 (21868)
2. gps for satnav YUP - but check into this (See above ATT may have locked to there software)
3. fm transmitter YUP....sorry! Read this as receiver, Has a FM receiver but no transmitter to go to your car stereo..
4. tv out. YUP
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station ...not sure what you mean here..if you mean like all the docking stuff they sell at Walmart for IPhones..NOPE..of course it has a USB connection.
6. 3.5mm headphone socket NOPE
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works YUP..works quite well with flash
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up YUP OH YAH BIG TIME
The real down side is that it is not a HTC unit so XDA won't support it the way they do a HTC product. I decided I could live with that but that was the hardest pill to swallow. The build quallity is heads and shoulders above my old HTC Touch Pro
good luck in finding your dream phone.
jez.stix said:
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone is actually pretty nice, I just had a couple technical problems with it and, being a dev, I grew really tired of Apple dictating what I can and can't do with my phone and my apps. The most notable thing about the iPhone is that it's fast. When you start a program, it's up and running in short order and stays fast unless it has to do something really intensive or relies on a slow network connection. This being opposed to WinMo where it can sometimes take forever to do anything. This is, of course, because the iPhone doesn't do much real multitasking but if that's not an issue, then the iPhone probably warrants a look. Another problem I had was that most of the world uses WMV/WMA for streaming audio and video and the iPhone not only doesn't support it, Apple has stated that it won't approve anything that does support it. Sometimes you can get around that using Orb but not always and that leads to the third big problem I had with the iPhone, Apple's little tinpot dictator attitude. I've been using Slingplayer for years on WinMo phones and yes, AT&T says you can't use it but the practical side is that as long as you're not an a-hole about it, they don't really care. The bottom line is that I can make the choice about whether or not I want to use it. iPhone's Slingplayer simply doesn't have the option to work over 3G. In fact, the only app of that kind which did was Orb and, as I hear it, Orb Networks just removed it on orders from AT&T and Apple. Technically yes, you can jailbreak the iPhone, install a hack that fools programs into thinking 3G is wifi and those various programs work, but it's a hack and not something you can count on working with the next system update since Apple is working hard to prevent those kinds of hacks from working. Plus they're starting to be exploited by hackers of a less than friendly nature. The iPhone also didn't support what I considered some basic functionality such as cut/copy/paste, MMS and bluetooth audio, for quite some time. When Apple finally decided to include that functionality, they acted as though they invented it. That continues today with the lack of quite a bit of multimedia types, refusal to allow Flash or any browser other than Safari, any kind of advanced bluetooth functionality, multitasking and so on. Again, if you don't care about any of the above, you should probably take a look at the iPhone if only for comparison. It's also *VERY* finger friendly, much moreso than WinMo, and you don't like having to wield a stylus at all, I'd definitely take a look at the iPhone.
I don't know why these WinMo companies are so slow to adopt things that seem like basic functionality to many users but they do improve their products, albiet slowly at times, and they're still a magnitude better than the competition, in my opinion. The HTC Titan sold by Sprint was, without a doubt, the worse piece of garbage I ever owned. HTC actually had the balls to put a measly 128mb of ram in there, put WinMo 6 on it and then let Sprint add all it's worthless slop to it. The bottom line was that it took half a day to boot and when it was finally done, it left somewhere between 8 and 12mb free...not even enough to run Slingplayer. Sprint charged $600 for that chunk of s*it and when I raised hell about it, Sprint not only refused to take it back, they wouldn't even cut me a break on what I had to buy to replace it. That's why I'm now with AT&T. So HTC (and other companies) do improve their products. One valuable thing about the Titan was that I learned to buy a phone for what it can do, not what it's capable of doing.
That's my main problem with the Expo and why I returned it. On paper it's a nice phone and there's a lot of potential in the hardware that is either unrealized or lost in the mess LG slapped together. Hopefully LG improves the system over time but right now it's pretty awful, in my opinion, and no update will ever help that poorly implemented stylus and, most likely, the poor battery life.
htc response
thanks for your email. You are correct, The HD and HD2 do not have TV out. Only the Touch PR line of devices has TV out for using with presentations and the like. The TV Out function was not highly requested in the market research that we did, so we concentrated on what the request were mostly for...larger screen, multitouch, standard 3.5mm jack etc. TV out was very far down on the list of wanted features. As for the music abilities, the only thing i know of that was removed on the HD2 was the remote control. This has returned on the HD2 as we needed to develop one that worked with the standard 3.5 jack that the majority of our customers wanted. This was the only thing removed from the HD. We think we must be doing something right as we are selling more handsets than ever, and winning lots of awards for our handsets as well. However, obviously you cannot please everyone, and if we have failed to meet your needs then i apologise, and hope that whatever device you choose, whether it be one of ours or not, i hope that you will be happy with it and it is everything you want. Best regards, Pete W HTC
I once contacted HTC about their lack of attention to this site.
The response i got made a lot of sense sadly.
Because of all the ROMs made on here and all the software that we reverse engineer from them and others, they cannot associate themselves with us at all due to illegality.
But still, this being the case, I think they could still use this site as a good place to do market research upon. Just because xda-devs is the largest collection of winmo users in one place that I know of, it seems to be the perfect place for them to go to see what their end users want.
I am a designer myself and it seems stupid to ignore the biggest resource of research and ideas.
This has been rumored for a while now, but this seems to be more concrete:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...android-phone-the-priv-will-launch-this-year/
BTW, this place has been completely dead for a few weeks now, and the last nightly is dated Sept 6. I tried several months back to start building my own ROM images, but before I got all the way there, someone else stepped up. Before you vanish completely, I might like to try this again, especially if someone can help me get started. I remember one file in particular that I don't know if I did correctly, perhaps it was "local.manifest", or something like that. If I can get running, with a bit of assistance, I can start putting up nightlies, if not nightly, at least at some interval.
I dunno, I kinda don't like the way the keyboard is. The keys seems too small. I'd like a keyboard in landscape mode.
Also, being by blackberry means rooting won't be as easy.
I couldn't agree more with you tpmjb about wanting a landscape keyboard phone, but i think this a big move for blackberry and warrants our support if we ever want to see another qwerty android device ever. The priv is getting allot of press and i think allot of people are excited about it. I also believe that the capacitative thingy for s6 was made because they heard about it ahead of time.
chuckiev79 said:
I couldn't agree more with you tpmjb about wanting a landscape keyboard phone, but i think this a big move for blackberry and warrants our support if we ever want to see another qwerty android device ever. The priv is getting allot of press and i think allot of people are excited about it. I also believe that the capacitative thingy for s6 was made because they heard about it ahead of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I changed my mind, I'm buying the Blackberry Priv. I figure it will be rooted before too long, and I'll probably get used to the keyboard. Also, this phone has severe problems with GPS, which I use to get around everywhere.
At $700, very few people will be purchasing a Priv. There will be no development community for the device.
There are plenty of people that want a keyboard, but that desire will not make hundreds of additional dollars magically materialize.
Furthermore, a $700 device should have 4GB and an 810 under the hood. The Priv forces compromise with 3 gigs and an 808.
QWERTY is dead.
No designated number row.... the main reason I chose the Relay over the Glide... well, that and lack of bluetooth phone calls in jb4.1+
I've been following the blackberry for a while and the rumors of them going android, really hoping somebody comes out with a horizontal slider.
Rumors say it has dual boot os. Android and bbos10
orange808 said:
At $700, very few people will be purchasing a Priv. There will be no development community for the device.
There are plenty of people that want a keyboard, but that desire will not make hundreds of additional dollars magically materialize.
Furthermore, a $700 device should have 4GB and an 810 under the hood. The Priv forces compromise with 3 gigs and an 808.
QWERTY is dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you buy a Samsung Galaxy S6, you can take advantage of certain economies of massive scale. If you choose a Priv, the economies of scale aren't the same. And so you won't get the same value for money.
Still, the price of the Priv will fall over time.
Plus, I suspect that, six months or a year after its release, it'll be possible to buy a used or refurbished Priv for far less than $700. Then you can use your Priv with a deep-discount carrier — a carrier which doesn't offer handset subsidies, but which offers ultra-cheap plans.
Alternatively, if you're with a carrier which offers handset subsidies, you may be able to sign a long-term contract and buy a heavily-discounted Priv. You can then pay your carrier back over time.
Looks cool but its t9 not qwerty
http://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_w2016_highend_clamshell_gets_official_in_china-news-15129.php
orange808 said:
At $700, very few people will be purchasing a Priv. There will be no development community for the device.
There are plenty of people that want a keyboard, but that desire will not make hundreds of additional dollars magically materialize.
Furthermore, a $700 device should have 4GB and an 810 under the hood. The Priv forces compromise with 3 gigs and an 808.
QWERTY is dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually SD808 is atleast as good as SD810 or even better. SD810 is thorttling too much and it is not stable in every day use. Take a look at here: Thermal Throttling – Which SOC’s are the Worst Offenders.
Qwerty sliders are dying but you have to be creative. I modded my own qwerty slider from Xiaomi Mi4C and iPhone 6 bluetooth keyboard case: Qwerty Keyboard Slider [DIY]
phred14 said:
This has been rumored for a while now, but this seems to be more concrete:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...android-phone-the-priv-will-launch-this-year/
BTW, this place has been completely dead for a few weeks now, and the last nightly is dated Sept 6. I tried several months back to start building my own ROM images, but before I got all the way there, someone else stepped up. Before you vanish completely, I might like to try this again, especially if someone can help me get started. I remember one file in particular that I don't know if I did correctly, perhaps it was "local.manifest", or something like that. If I can get running, with a bit of assistance, I can start putting up nightlies, if not nightly, at least at some interval.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know why they even came out with Priv cause there was already Q5 & Q10...and on top of that most big shot Companies think people (Or everyone is a Text-Crazed Teenager) only use phones for texting and emails... ... ...those are pretty much the same and most simplistic things people will do with a phone besides Facebook... BLACKBERRY, MOTOROLA, SAMSUNG...I use my Relay at one point to replace my Computer (Dell D800 which start to run at 600MHz and 1GB RAM)...Stop with this Marketing Target business.
We the customer aren't Programmers or Teenagers, we don't need an iPhone or Phones that match with what we wear (Motorola)...we need Convenience...hence why you -blackberry- lost the market cause you keep pushing out small screen -but bigger than Nokia- phones that didn't really improve much (NO NUMROW, worst is the Sony Xperia sk17 (Mini Pro, 3") and sk16 (Pro, 3.7"), both have the exact same keyboard...3.7" and they didn't put Numrow or Okay Button). Had they had the size of a S3 or a 4" screen-phone-size with the Keyboard or not make the mistake like Symbian -Nokia E6, Touch with Buttons on Screen design for DPAD- they couldn't lose there market, but Priv is show us how Blackberry needs to let go or improve its model, not make more nostalgia (I don't know if that is right) while thinking its the big screen that everyone loves (If iPod had a Stylus instead of Touch, people would look at that like its a Color Palm Pilot...as where touch is better based how you control it).
Me when I saw Passport and Priv, I laughed my butt off, only Trenders will buy. I was even thinking Blackberry was going to actually come out with a Landscape Slider at one point and make a video with the Song "I want to know that, want to know that, will you Love me Again" playing...but snap Blackberry, Storm (My Twin Sister first Bought it, I wasn't even into Phones until 2012...born 1992 and got a Relay in 2015...made in 2012) was fail for me cause of putting 1 clicker in the Center of phone instead of 9-13 or 16-20 (Top/Mid/Bottom+Left/Center/Right to Between Center/Corner=4 or to Quarter of Size or to Fifth of Size or even put more at the bottom for the keyboard)...you guys should have built a fake plastic prototype of that feature (1 Hard Clicker to 13 Mid-Soft Clickers unless the 1 made it seem hard) cause had it not failed it would have been like iPhone 6 pressure screen...
Blackberry thinks that only 1 Phone is the Best, but Truly they Grew when you went from Pearl to Bold, etc and bold to Q5/10 (Had they made Torch like that), but Priv or Private -as I call it if it becomes Landscape Slider then Lieutenant and Colonel- is why Blackberry shouldn't design Hardware Form.
They are 100% correct about software cause I can Play PSP and Edit Word Docs on my Android and Hackers figured out a way to play all PS1 on PSP, but Sony's Devs couldn't (Embarrassing).
The only reason I have a PC is literally cause I'm doing online schooling and the website needs Internet Explorer or Google Chrome or else the interaction might slip up on a Mobile Device...other than that the only reason I bought a Vostro 14 is because it can play PS3 equivalent games (Skyrim, Saints Row, etc)...so I don't need a PC or the Lastest Android (GingerBread was my World and now JellyBean, in fact an LG Ahola has a keyboard with Prediction, where as my Relay doesn't...Relay is 4.1.2 and LG Ahola is 2.1 with 600Mhz CPU & 256MB RAM...it really depends on how you design it...even Motorola Defy Pro had it too...also Relay doesn't have a OKAY Button so if I highlight/select text (Shift+Left/Right) with Keyboard and touch to use Copy/Cut, the selected text disappears)
And funny thing today -Octo-core is 2xQuad-core CPU with 4 low & 4 high power- same thing I said ever since I got my first Phone -A Nokia 5000-6000series- I need something for note taking and I'm pretty sure that doesn't require a very fast Computer or computer at all (Cause now Tech is getting better)...if anyone is smart they stop with Big Screens and go to built-in Project-on-to-screen-like-a-flashlight or Project-to-a-screen-via-cable...cause I once saw a Phone design as Processor that goes into a Tablet...
There are so many things and ways of doing any thing, but Blackberry choose Portrait Slider...over Landscape and no alternative...when they've been using Landscape the Whole time (I know this contradicts before, but not increasing the Screen Size is what was Blackberry's Downfall)...In fact I just realize when has Portrait been used in an electronic besides Reading Text Material (Like on actual Paper) cause Televisions and Computers don't have Portrait Screens, I would use Word Doc and Landscape Shaped Window even if page is Portrait and the thing I see most people use big scr.een phones for is Videos...in Landscape...I read my Comics in Landscape (Cause Portrait is small).
Portrait is for the Quick and Easy or Simple Stuff (1-Hand)...Landscape is for 2 Handers and yet people who design for Portrait still put the things you need to Touch at the Top of the Screen...I only need Time at Top if I need to see it at the Lock Screen not when I am using the Phone.
Sorry for variety of errors of Grammar, Punctuation, Spelling, Sentence Structure, dotting my i's and crossing my t's (Joking on the last part). I didn't proofread much.
Best Keyboard was Motorola Droid 3 and LG C710 Aloha, but sadly there Hardware wasn't good.
Flash-A-Holic said:
Actually SD808 is atleast as good as SD810 or even better. SD810 is thorttling too much and it is not stable in every day use. Take a look at here: Thermal Throttling – Which SOC’s are the Worst Offenders.
Qwerty sliders are dying but you have to be creative. I modded my own qwerty slider from Xiaomi Mi4C and iPhone 6 bluetooth keyboard case: Qwerty Keyboard Slider [DIY]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate those keys, though. That's the same bluetooth case available on every modern phone. They change the brands a million times on Amazon, but it's the same case. Price varies wildly too.
Keys are wayyyyyy too close together. It's somehow faster to type each letter on a touch screen.
TPMJB said:
I hate those keys, though. That's the same bluetooth case available on every modern phone. They change the brands a million times on Amazon, but it's the same case. Price varies wildly too.
Keys are wayyyyyy too close together. It's somehow faster to type each letter on a touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not that bad. There is shaped buttons for better touch in my keyboard. I have seen different keyboard which are worse.
Flash-A-Holic said:
It is not that bad. There is shaped buttons for better touch in my keyboard. I have seen different keyboard which are worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh weird, where'd you get a 5 row case? I thought it was the ****ty 4 row case that's on Amazon, from the thumbnail on your video. I might just check it out
Edit: Wow, it looks exactly like my relay keyboard! I'm definitely interested! Every Amazon link I see is that awful 4 row keyboard.
...but not for $72 eee gad
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2016/12/blackberry-dtek70-mercury-leaked/
It looks like BB is about to release another QWERTY phone. But the times of slider keyboards are gone.
Guys... prepare your butts, the holy grail:
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-01/graalphone-4-in-1-notebook-smartphone-tablet-3d-kamera/
The GraalPhone!!! Next year in Europe and USA!!
Had my hopes up then...but look at the size of it! It's massive