Related
I'm shopping for my next cell phone and after looking over the selection on letstalk.com I decided on the Fuze. Initially my only hard requirement was a real slider style QWERTY keyboard, not those sorta-qwertys that the blackberries have and not the fully exposed ones that don't tuck away. I want something I can text comfortably on and not be pecking around in menus trying to find special characters. I was very impressed by both the robust keyboard and the PC-like features of the Fuze, particularly the high-res screen, wifi, and its ability to do remote desktop (awesome for someone like me who uses RDP constantly.)
So the Fuze was starting to sound like slam-dunk until I decided to research it further here and found the cpu/driver/qualcomm thread, battery life and other assorted complaints about this phone. They're certainly not deal-breakers given all the good things about the phone, but before I buy it anyway I wanted to ask for suggestions for an alternative. What would you get if you wanted a great slider qwerty and remote desktop, but didn't want to settle for the Fuze?
The Raphael(Fuze) is the best WinMo PPC hardware qwerty slider around. I still bought mine despite knowing the problems. It's possible that HTC/Qualcomm releases better drivers or an SDK in the future if we pester them enough, so there's even hope for future performance improvements. Plus the xda-dev community is very active with cooked ROMs, there at least 3 or 4 excellent ROMs you can choose from, and they are updated frequently.
nodnod...
That was pretty much exactly what I expected to hear. At least now I can buy this awful piece of junk guilt-free.
Update
Have had my Fuze for about a week now, so far not all that impressed. I already need to return it because the lcd has screen color problems (color ghosting, intermittent monochrome r/g/b) so I haven't tried flashing any roms or radios, tho I have gone thru the basic stock-rom, no-bloat noob setup a few times and tried out just about every interesting freeware app i could find.
I asked a friend to try out the browser on his iPhone. It started so fast, and browsed so smoothly. Mine lags at every single little action - scrolling the screen, zooming, clicking a link... painfully slow. However I found that entering text on his iphone was even more painful.
The main feature I liked from the start about the TP is the ability to do real remote desktop - a lifesaver for someone who's got remote servers to manage, AND a life outside of work. I haven't done anything too complicated thru RDP yet, just kinda played with the start menu - which I noticed has weird text issues at this resolution. However I was still very impressed by this functionality and this is where the vga resolution of this phone really shines.
I've been thinking about asking for a different handset when I send this one back, but still not found one that meets my needs and has a hardware keyboard. Seems like we are still a few iterations away from having a truly well-made, useful pocket pc phone so I may just get it replaced by the same model.
Other minor things I didn't like about it: Entire thing is extremely heavy and fragile, weird diamond-cut back causes certain spots to lose their paint immediately, battery life DOES suck despite what some say, phone back has to be removed to switch out microsd cards, no 1/8" audio out and you NEVER have that dongle adapter when you want it.
rcll said:
The Raphael(Fuze) is the best WinMo PPC hardware qwerty slider around. I still bought mine despite knowing the problems. It's possible that HTC/Qualcomm releases better drivers or an SDK in the future if we pester them enough, so there's even hope for future performance improvements. Plus the xda-dev community is very active with cooked ROMs, there at least 3 or 4 excellent ROMs you can choose from, and they are updated frequently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This does not sound like the HTC I know.
The only real next step up is the Xperia. However, the X1 has a lot of differences that would be a big turn off for me. X1 seems to be a much better build quality though.
Largest problems being WVGA (always a pain even with the WVGA <-> VGA work around) and the price.
behrouz said:
This does not sound like the HTC I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, there are few companies that would be willing to deploy a major software update like this once the unit is already selling. The only hope for this model is if the proprietary driver code could be leaked from qualcomm and incorporated into a rom.
I called the LetsTalk.com customer service line and asked if they could cross-ship me a new fuze so I wouldn't be without a phone for several days. They said yes but for some reason the deposit amount is equal to the retail value of the fuze PLUS a bunch more money for reasons which I did not quite understand due to the phone rep's "dialect" of english. So I now have an $850 (!) hold on my credit card (which happens to be my personal checking account) until the phone swap is completed.
I won't call this so much of a "dream phone" post, as it is a serious suggestion to any hardware devs that may scour smartphone forums, such as these. Anyway, I recommend that the following be implemented as a minimum/standard in future flagship devices (in no particular order)...
Code:
[B]Compass[/B], hardware
[B]3D[/B] acceleration [I](Working, that is. ::ahem:: HTC!! ::hem::)[/I]
[B]TV-out, 720P[/B] [I]([B]1080P[/B], preferably)[/I]
[B]Capacitive[/B] screen [B][I]WITH[/I][/B] [B]stylus[/B] solution [I](Which we all know to be in the works, at least by HTC)[/I] with [B]magnetic sensor[/B] [I](a la Touch Pro)[/I]
*MP camera with [B]autofocus[/B], [B]flash[/B], [B][I]AND at least[/I] VGA video recording[/B]
[B]Stereo[/B] device speaker(phone)
[B]TRACKBALL (!!!)[/B] [I](If you're gonna take D-pads away, THROW IN A TRACKBALL. I mean, look how little space it takes up)[/I]
[B]G-Sensor[/B] [I](And, more responsive. I don't know if hardware or software's to blame here)[/I]
[B]Light/Proximity Sensor[/B]
[B]802.11 a/b/g/n[/B] [I](I want [B]COMPLETE[/B] Wi-Fi connectivity)[/I]
[B]USB Host[/B] capabilities
[B]QWERTY[/B] keyboard [B][I]WITH[/I][/B] [B]offset keys, "Ctrl", "Tab"[/B] and [B]Fn-key NumPad layout[/B] [I](a la at&t's iteration's of HTC flagship devices)[/I]
[B]3.5mm audio output[/B]
[B]IR[/B] (Give me back the capability of using my device as a remote control...[B]DAMMIT![/B] And, with decent [B]range[/B])
[B]Tilting screen[/B]
And, let's not forget...[B]Thin[/B]ner is [I]always[/I] [B]BETTER[/B]
The cool thing about this list is it isn't OS-specific (aside from hardware key requirements), so I feel these should, no MUST be implemented in future WM6.1/6.5/7 and Android devices. Bluetooth's a given, and I'm sure it'd be 2.0 or higher. CPU and RAM I've left out because these can, should, and will vary, however I'd say the numbers oughta be appropriate for a flagship business/multimedia/gaming, overall high-end device. But, I'd imagine 1GHz and 512MB is a nice sweet spot. microSDHC is another given, as is aGPS. I'd really only wanted to emphasize the main varying factors.
Anyway, anyone, myself included, would be willing to pay top-dollar for such devices, I'm sure... No, I'm lying. I'd still try to find the very best bargain I could to spend THE very least possible, but that's besides the point. Feel free to chime in everyone.
It wouldn't hurt if it were a CDMA worldphone, either
Yes, because you can have a qwerty keyboard in a really thin device! What's the point of HD TV-out if you can only record at VGA?
YES!
Except:
- no TV-out
- mono speaker
- mini-USB for power
- a screen that is actually readable in sunlight not like the ****ING CRAP HTC STICK US WITH
- a CPU that can actually handle the software/OS on the device
- how about some decent memory. The iPhone has 16GB+
- a decent price ($200 max with contract)
- decent battery (1 day HEAVY, HEAVY usage - 2+ days light usage)
And there should be 3 form factors for this device:
- iphone
- iphone with a slide out qwerty (which should not add more than 0.2mm)
- blackberry
coolVariable said:
- iphone with a slide out qwerty (which should not add more than 0.2mm)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, because you ought to be able to fit a sliding mechanism, keys, and mounting hardware in 200 microns!
Seriously, you can put whatever you like in a list like this, but you can't change the laws of physics (and what you're requesting would require that...)
edit: for the most up-to-date indecisive rambling, just jump to the most recent post, though feel free to peruse the whole thread.
I understand this is a very difficult question to answer, especially given that no two people's needs are ever quite the same but I'm just looking for some ideas/a sounding board.
I currently have a Touch HD which I have been quite happy with, I really quite like TouchFlo, but it's starting to show it's age and I'm due an upgrade in about a fortnight anyway.
At the moment, given what's available on the market, Android is the only choice IMO.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against WinMo/WinPho but I'm not buying a phone that won't be properly upgradeable and therefore, arguably, rendered obsolete in a couple of months and I'm definitely not waiting two months plus for a new phone on the off-chance I like what I see.
As for the rest, Symbian's a joke; Blackberrys aren't my thing; Palm is not an option; and the iPhone, well unless they announce something pretty damned special on Monday, my dislike of iTunes alone is enough to put me off - before we even get onto the flaws with the handset(s)...
In terms of what I want, that's where it all gets a bit difficult.
I can't work out if I want to go for an all-out powerful handset à la the Desire or the upcoming Samsung Galaxy S or if I want something a bit less fancy, the Sony Ericsson X10 Mini being a prime example - trading off absolute power for benefits in terms of size and cost.
My worry about a high-end handset is that I get one, then a month or two, or even a week or two, later, something else comes along that makes me regret my decision - not least the impending WinPho 7 release and all the potentially 'awesome' new handsets that will accompany that.
With the X10 Mini, I'm not too worried about something better arriving in the near-future, I think it's too niche a device to end up with much competition but, having read the review of it on GSMArena, it seems that my biggest concern is the handset's Achilles Heel - the low screen res. If it was even HVGA, I would probably just go for it but QVGA is pushing usability.
Anyway, yeah, I'm just looking to bounce ideas/suggestions around, so if anyone wants to chip in, please feel free.
Nexus one is my phone of choice at the moment. I've just made the jump to Android and this device is nothing short of awesome! The 2.2 upgrade will be rolled out soon which brings several improvements too. (It is available already but this early release isn't very polished yet. I'm waiting for the OTA release).
Unusually for me i'm keeping this device stock, so no custom ROM flashing etc. It's just such an improvement over the WM phones that i'm used to that i don't feel the need to change anything. I could harp on for hours about all the features that makes this such a good device but you should have a look around instead and make your own informed decision. There are lots of good forums devoted to this device but i'd start with the dedicated xda, nexus one section.
Thanks.
If I were going for a high-end Android device, then it would be the Desire and not the Nexus One - partly because I like the Sense UI and partly because I wouldn't entertain the idea of switching to Vodafone, their tariffs aren't competitive and their coverage is poor where I stay.
I have played extensively with the Desire and it is a lovely phone but, as I said previously, I'm concerned that if I upgraded to it, I'd only want to change again when say the Galaxy S comes out or in a couple of months when WinPho 7 arrives.
Obviously, there's a chance that would be the same if I went for the X10 Mini but I would be able to get it on such a cheap deal instead, that the idea of then choosing to shell out for a new device a few months down the line isn't so bad.
I'm also starting to question whether I need all the features that the Desire/Nexus One offers as opposed to merely wanting them.
I bought myself a laptop back in January and, since then, I'm using the web a lot less on my phone, so do I really need something with a huge, high-res screen?
Thanks for the input, it's greatly appreciated (as is anyone else's opinions/ideas), I fear I've a bit of thinking ahead of me yet though...
At the moment, there are a few phones that I'm considering and I'm trying to weigh them all up, so I'd appreciate any input, suggestions or ideas anyone can offer up.
First up, the HTC Desire
Pros:
HTC Sense
Decent CPU and RAM
AMOLED screen
HTC handset - excellent build quality and 2 year warranty
Cons:
No HD video
Screen is only AMOLED, not sAMOLED
It's already sold a lot and, as sad as it is, I don't really like the idea of having the same phone as everyone else
Samsung Galaxy S
Pros:
superAMOLED screen
HD video
CPU that's potentially even more powerful than the Snapdragon in the Desire
Samsung handset - 2 year warranty
Cons:
No HTC Sense
Even worse, it uses Samsung's childish UI
No camera flash - seriously, wtf?
Not yet released
Motorola XT720
Pros:
8MP, HD video, Xenon flash - the best camera on an Android handset just now
480x854 screen resolution - more pixels are never a bad thing
[edit] HDMI out - a real boon for an HD-recording handset [/edit]
Cons:
LCD screen - not even AMOLED, let alone sAMOLED
480x854 screen resolution - non-standard resolution may cause some app compatibility issues
No LED flash for video use - a minor point but the ideal camera phone would have LED and Xenon
Question marks over CPU compared to the Desire or Galaxy S (720MHz OMAP A8 Cortex as opposed to 1GHz Snapdragon/Hummingbird on other handsets)
No HTC Sense
Motorola handset - 1 year warranty, not sure of build quality
Not available until the start of next month
Sony Ericsson X10 Mini
Pros:
Tiny size
Well thought-out UI
Cheap
Sony Ericsson handset - 2 year warranty
TINY!
Cons:
Small screen size and resolution - will have a negative effect on web browsing experience and app compatibility
Only running 1.6 'Donut' with very vague upgrade roadmap
Sony Ericsson handset - questionable build quality, possible (probable?) software issues
LCD screen - not AMOLED or sAMOLED
No HD video
I know it may not seem like it, given the large number of points in the 'Cons' category for it but I'm actually drawn the most to the Motorola handset.
The problem is, having only just been released there's a number of questions I have which I can't as of yet get answers for - for example, the build quality may not be an issue but I won't know that until I can have a play with one, the CPU may not be a downside, etc etc.
Anyway, yeah, any/all input is always welcome.
ideas
i guess your best choice can be galaxy s
but if you give up on browsing(use your laptop instead) then x10mini will be the best...feature wise and price
wish you luck
I do currently use my laptop a lot for web browsing but I'm not prepared to carry it around with me every day on the off-chance I want to go online.
If the X10 Mini had even an HVGA screen instead of QVGA, then it would probably be high enough to just to alleviate my concerns - at least in terms of app compatibility, though obviously for the likes of web browsing it would never match a WVGA (or higher) handset like the others I'm considering.
As for the Galaxy S, the power, screen and HD video do appeal but leaving out a camera flash just seems so unnecessary, almost like they're doing it deliberately.
But, between that and the Samsung UI, it's just enough to sour my feelings towards it.
As I say, against my better judgement, I can't help but like the Motorola handset.
At least, unlike the Desire, by sticking with an LCD screen it should mean it's ok to use in sunlight - obviously AMOLED has it's advantages but unless you make the jump all the way up to sAMOLED then there's still a cloud attached to that silver lining.
And regarding the CPU, while there are question marks over it, I've also heard it suggested that the TI OMAP 3430 CPUs are actually more powerful than the faster-clocked Snapdragon CPUs like the Desire uses, so it could actually be a better handset than the Desire in that respect.
Also, I should probably point out that my plan when I upgrade is to negotiate as low a tariff as I can out of T-Mobile, then if I see a phone I really like partway through the contract term, I'll just buy it.
So, the shorter warranty on the Motorola may not be an issue.
Thanks for your input, even if it doesn't seem like it, it's definitely appreciated.
Ok, so here we are a full 5 months since the last post and I'm still stuck in the same situation - want, almost need, a new phone but don't know what to go for.
Since last time, obviously things have come on a long way.
Symbian has reached the next level, meaning it's only a bit behind everyone else as opposed to significantly behind; Apple announced the iPhone4 which is a nice piece of hardware but the OS and price are too big of a stmubling block; Blackberry have moved on to OS6 but really there's nothing new about it; WinPho7 was released and looks OK but the hardware is just slightly underwhelming.
As for Maemo/Meego, Bada and WebOS, they're not even worth considering IMO.
So that leaves us with the only thing I am sure about, that my next phone will be an Android handset but beyond that I've still not been able to reach a decision.
Looking back at what I was considering before, none of them are still in the running - the Motorola XT720 turned out to be a dud, the X10 Mini was plagued with problems and the Galaxy S and Desire have both been out-done by the Desire HD.
Obviously the daddy just now is the Desire HD.
The best hardware around, the best UI around, there should be no reason to even consider anything else. And yet, I'm just not taken with it, I know I should love it, I know there should be no competition but it's not exciting me.
On the other hand, against all the odds and especially since the XT720 was so poor, I find myself quite taken with the Motorola Defy.
I know that the specs aren't so great but the idea of a ruggedised handset is pretty neat and the size is just a bit more pocketable than the Desire HD's, though that's not my biggest concern.
Going in the other direction, I'm also quite taken by the Samsung Galaxy Tab.
Given how I use my phone making/receiving very few calls, mostly texting and using the internet) a larger device like the Tab is in many ways better-suited to my needs. However, it's biggest advantage is also it's biggest downfall - the larger screen makes the Tab a far less practical device than the likes of the Desire HD or the Defy (I know I said with regards to the Defy that the size difference wasn't my biggest concern but the Tab is a whole order of magnitude larger), to the point that if I decided to use the Tab as a phone, I'd need to get myself a second handset to use on occasions when the Tab's size made it impossible to take with me.
Once again, any/all help will be greatly appreciated.
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.
i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops
z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!
AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.
1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.
Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...
For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.
There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).
I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.
.
Thread moved to Android. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.
Do you review the content of my threads before moving them or do you see my name and play pin the tail on the donkey with the final location of the thread?
Hello there,
in september 2012 I bought my first tablet, a LC-Power MIRA-1. Shortly after, on the 19th I posted a [Q] post here because I had a few questions. In the following weeks, some replies back and forth, more quirks came to light.
In short, I was semi-happy with the MIRA-1 (everything was fine save a few situations where the single-core tablet speed could not really keep up, for example, starting firefox and the keyboard, it always froze 2-3 secs "firefox is not responding. close/wait?")
Still, I do believe, I learned some valuable lessons about android and others with the MIRA-1 or thinking about getting one were helped too.
Fade in today.
I recently bought the new LC-Power SINA-1. It cost me 200EUR (Germany). In comparison, the MIRA-2 (which is like the MIRA-1 with an extra camera and a smaller rechargeable battery) still costs 160 EUR
I found the new SINA-1 to be a very interesting product, especially considering the price.
I came here to write my own review. I am in no way affiliated with LC-Power and I do not get a dime for writing this.
My motive for writing this and yes, maybe even advertise, is very simple. First of all, xda-developer has helped me before and I'd like to give back. More importantly however, I believe in tablets that do not cost an arm and an leg as well as the android (modding) community. I would very much love to see the LC-Power tablets get the attention they deserve...
Thank you for keeping with me so far. Let us begin!
Technical specs for the new SINA-1 tablet:
CPU: ARM Cortex A9 Dual Core 1,5GHz
GPU: Mali 400 QuadCore 250MHz
RAM: 1GB DDR3
Memory: System 1GB + 16GB NAND Flash (+ MicroSD up to 32GB)
Display: 10.1" IPS 5 Point Touchscreen, 1280x800
Networking: 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth 4.0
Cameras: 0.3MP front, 2MP back
Connectors: micro-HDMI out, micro-USB host, micro-USB connector, 3.5mm headphones jack
OS: Android 4.1
Want to know more? google it
As I mentioned before, the tablet costs 200 EUR (Onlineshop, Germany, Dec, 15th 2012)
Material and built quality:
The first impression is very good. The tablet feels solid, has a certain weight to it, but is not too heavy.
The front appears to be glas and if it is not, it must be a very hard plastic. The back is made out of aluminium. I have no doubt that both can be scratched, please forgive me for not doing the experimentation on that. However, in a few days of extensive (time) yet normal (application) use, I have yet to see any marks besides fingerprints.
Where the front and back meet I can not feel any sharp edge (MIRA-1 I could).
It is very thin (quite a bit thinner than the MIRA tablet and a bit higher as well)
Overall, I would give the material and quality very good marks. I dont doubt that it could be better in some regard, even if I can't name one right now.
Display (visual):
The 1280x800 resolution suits the tablet well. It is definately a neccesary step up from 1024x768 (MIRA). Even if I did not exactly see pixalation with the old ones, the picture is indeed better with the higher resolution. Webpages like reddit look sharp, the text in 100% zoom is not too small. Pictures look vivid and good. Videos are even better (given the source material is of sufficient resolution itself).
The viewing angles are what you would expect from an IPS panel. Frontal (no angle) is best, the more you move to the side and increase the angle, the more you lose contrast and brightness. I have seen worse and have yet to observe the "picture went negative", but viewing some content with 2-3 people should not be a problem when you dont mind sticking your heads together
The brightness (350cd/m²) is good, in fact, in a dark room you may want to lower it a bit. Even on the lowest setting it is not too dark.
The contrast is equally good, or should I say "normal". It did not attract attention, neither positive nor negative...
First tests with a bright (300W) lightsource led me to believe that the glossy display does not become a shaving mirror when you have a bright light behind you, but it is definately harder to see the picture. Especially noticeable with movies.
Due to it being winter without sun, I can not test the tablet with summer-sun-brightness outside. I fear the results will not be too good. You may want to keep that in mind if you live in africa and will be using the tablet in the sun - might be trouble. (Then again, I don't know any tablet that has a matte display)
The illumination (is that the right word?) - the background light source illuminating the display with the same brightness consistenly - is adequate. There are a few bright spots (tested with a black fullscreen per 1.0 eyeball), especially on the lower left corner/border).
It is not noticeable when looking at brightly coloured images, but it will be a nuisance when watching a movie which is very dark.
I felt that here, my old MIRA-1 did do better. There, I never noticed bright spots like this before.
Display (touch):
The 5-point-capacitive display does very well in accepting touches, even light ones. 2-point touch (zoom) works equally great and the short test with fruit ninja confirmes that 5 points can be tracked. I did not experience any noticeable lag with 1,2 or 5 points in normal operation.
If you take a paint app and draw with your finger, a slight lag can be observed, however, as I understand current technology, this is common and just the way it is.
In conclusion, the display visually is adequate. Are there better displays out there? Yes, definately. Do you get them for 200 EUR? Definately not! Do you need a better display? Well, I can not answer that for you. In my opinion, the illumination is the only real and still overlookable drawback, everything else is fine. 8/10
The touchscreen part of the display is as it should be. I can not really imagine some way to improve it. 10/10
Together 9/10
Actual Performance:
The performance is quite good and right were it should be. There are faster tablets and phones out there and if we were talking about speed in my workstation or gaming rig, I would be right there with the "FASTER!!!!"-crowd. But since I don't plan on playing skyrim or bf3, rendering 3d images or encoding hd-videos on the tablet, I dont need huge speed reserves, I want a tablet that performs well with the usual tasks like webpage browsing, playing media files and so on.
As mentioned before, this is one of the main problems I had with the old MIRA tablet. 2-3sec freezes, applications (mainly the browser) that did not react and had to be waited for. With the SINA-1 they are gone. The OS works like a charm, switching applications goes instantly, browsing webpages is fun and the waiting in the browser now is for the reason it should be - networking speed! (browsing with firefox+adblock+hackers keyboard)
Since the old MIRA did perform well with movies and the games that I tested, it is no wonder that the SINA-1 does perform equally good. HD videos work well, jumping around in them works fast, even over HDMI with 1920x1080.
And I have yet to find a game that does not run perfectly on the SINA-1. I have tested the occasional gamer games like Angry Birds, some RPGs and even some 3D shooters.
It is hard to give points for the performance. On the one hand, I am fully satisfied (10/10), on the other hand are tablets and phones being sold with much much more power, at least on paper.
Button/Connector placement:
There are only two buttons, power and volume up/down. Both are placed on the right higher side, where I would have placed them myself. They feel high-quality (they dont dangle/wiggle) and have a distinct pressure point that needs some force. This helps you in knowing when you actually pressed the button and not press buttons by accident.
The connectors are on top (right side). One exception would be the headphone jack which is on the right side above the buttons.
The USB host (where you can plug in normal usb devices) is no longer a common USB port (like MIRA had), but a micro-USB. A short adapter cable came with the tablet.
The normal USB host (where you connect your tablet with the pc to access the memory/sdcard from the pc) is also micro-USB. A longer cable came with the tablet.
I would have liked the normal USB port to stay.
Also, these two distinct different USB ports look the same. Some attention must be payed to not confuse them.
HDMI is mini-HDMI. Adapter did NOT come with the tablet. (Which would have been nice!)
Power In is 5V at 2.5A. Adapter came with the tablet (duh!) - the cable is a bit short for my taste. About the same as with the MIRA before.
Note: the tablets rechargeable battery can no longer be loaded over USB
The connectors are close together, but not too close. you should be able to connect all 3/4 with power at the same time.
The microSD slot is on the right side, almost on the back.
Speaker: The speaker(s?) is on the backside. I feel like the device is not as loud as the MIRA tablets, but still works well for watching movies or listening to music in a normal room when you are alone.
Software:
Android 4.1 is working great.
Some might argue there are a few needless apps preinstalled. For example Google Maps and Navigation on a device which has no GPS and no mobile internet built in.
But there is no real crapware either.
Google Play:
Google Play is installed and working fine. The device gets shown as "Rockchip SINA-1"
I did run into some trouble with my old MIRA-1 and some apps. A few were apparently not compatible (although I did not understand why), others that were compatible did refuse to install (I can not and will not exclude a layer 8 problem here)
All those apps work now with the SINA-1. Install is fast and there is no trouble. The 16GB memory will suffice for a lot of apps.
Battery:
The rechargeable battery is a bit less powerfull than the one in the MIRA-1 and a bit more powerfull than the one in the MIRA-2.
Still, with the higher speed and I would assume, higher resolution, more power is needed. Hence with usage, the charging level does indeed go down. Quite a bit faster than with the MIRA-1. I will have to correct my earlier estimate from 5-6hrs down to 4-5hrs.
In fact, bring your loader if you are gonna go out all day and will be using the tablet much.
Support:
LC-Power is usually quick in answering normal support emails, but they will not exactly fall over each other trying to resolve any exotic issue that might come up. Maybe if you speak mandarin and mail them directly at tech and dev headquarters in probably china you might have some luck, but I doubt that the LC-Power people in Germany, USA or UK or ... had much to say about developing the device and customizing the android (except of course, maybe some translation)
Also, do not expect regular android updates or any long time support and new android versions. 2-3 months ago I was promised 4.1 for the MIRA-1, still hasn't been released.
Connectivety:
Wireless LAN b/g/n is working as intended. I feel however, that the signal strength is weaker than with the MIRA-1 tablet.
Bluetooth: What can I say. Its Bluetooth. Its there, it can be used, it works...
Mobile internet: Only per additional USB dongle (or tether your mobile phone...)
Ethernet: Apparently there are USB dongles for Ethernet LAN out there. Havent seen one yet, but I havent looked hard either.
Modding:
So far, there has yet to establish a big LC-Power community with modders, mods and custom roms. I really really hope it will happen some time. But dont hold your breath, you are on your own. Spread the word of the LC-Power devices, lets get a high enough market share an the chances of a active modding community will rise dramatically. Or do it yourself...
So...
if you dont care about mods and custom roms, the SINA-1 is ok for you.
If you want to play around, learn android, program aps, make mods, maybe even a custom rom, feel free to give the SINA-1 a try.
If you want to download the newest custom ROM, install it per 10 step manual and prag in school about your mad hacking and modding skills, look someplace else...
Rooting:
The device does not come pre-rooted. (MIRA did)
I welcome that change to some degree. I honestly believe in not giving the run-of-the-mill users the ability to break something beyond their own (or even some specialist) capability to repair it.
Then again, I also am not fond of the tricks one has to employ to actually root a device IF someone knows what he is doing and wants to use a device to its full potential.
That being said, it was relatively easy to root the SINA-1. Instructions at the end of my review
One last sentence about the stock ROM. It is not available for download (at least I could not find it). I know of no way to reflash it or recover a bricked device. You wont find extensive help, manuals and tipps to that end. Make sure to have an appropriate backup and/or tread carefully.
I myself will investigate, if you have any insight into that topic, feel free to contact me...
Summary/Conclusion
I really like this tablet. A lot. I found it superior to the MIRA-1 in almost all aspects (especially speed, compatability, screen resolution and build quality). It has however its week points (battery run time, uneven lightning of the display).
Since it is a 10" tablet without mobile internet, it obviously was made for home usage. Browsing webpages from the couch, watching a movie while your in a room without a TV, or listening to music without bringing your stereo, add a game now and then when you are bored. This is where this tablet shines. I could imagine it being used in a work environment / office as well. And when the batterie gets low, you hook it up.
The occasional traveler should be happy as well. Get a dongle or tether it to your phone and you can surf the web in the bus/train. Hook up your headphones and watch a movie (just hope the sun doesnt shine too much). Also, dont expect the tablet to last a flight around the world without loading up...
All in all, a very decent device with a very attractive price.
So should you get it? Well, it depends...
If you have a MIRA-1 or 2 and you are really happy with them, you dont care about waiting 1-2sec for some apps. Then dont get the SINA-1
If you have ANY other single core tablet that is not up to its tasks, makes you wait for apps, annoys you in some way, yes, give the SINA-1 a try - and sell the old one for some cash...
If you are thinking about getting the MIRA-1 or 2 (or another similar single-core device), try really hard to look for the other 40 EUR and get the SINA-1. Or get the MIRA used for like half its retail (~80 EUR), but be warned about the possibility of the tablet being to slow now and then
If you have another dual-core (or more) high-end tablet, probably with a big name on it like some fruit or samsung or nexus.. Sure, buy it. whats another 200 EUR. Or dont, I dont think it will be an upgrade. Just another tablet, even if it is a decent one
the get it or dont get it reasons in the modding subsection still apply
I myself regret nothing. I watch movies in bed, I surf the web on the couch. If I am really lazy I even open up teamviewer to do 2-3 clicks on my PC without getting up. I take the tablet with me on train rides and watch a movie or surf the web with my phone tethered. And I recently started to use it at work for presentations (put my notes on it). And when I am bored, I do play a game now and then.
Mind you, I did/could have done all that with the old tablet as well. But it sure makes more fun now
End of the review---
I certainly hope that this rewritten and formated review is more informative and better on the eyes.
I think I got most of my english mistakes as well.
I hope this helps some folk decide
If you have questions, feel free to ask them here. I will try to look back now and then and answer those questions.
good day
Catwiesel, Germany
Addendum:
How to root the SINA-1
Disclaimer: no guarantee, you break it, not my fault bla bla...
First, it was not difficult. It was done by the "root with restore by bin4ry method"
step 1: enable usb-debugging and allow installing of "foreign apk's" (or whats it called in english)
step 2: get a usb driver for windows (7 x64 in my case)
step 2b: since you probably wont find a driver, modify the google drivers from the android development sdk. add the line to the google.ntx86 and ntamd64 block:
%CompositeAdbInterface% = USB_Install, USB\VID_2207&PID_0010&MI_01
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
step 3: add the file adb_usb.ini at /users/[username]/.android directory with the following line:
0x2207
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(i had to do this in my user account and in the administrator account*)
step 4: connect the tablet with your pc, make sure all drivers were installed and usb debugging is on
step 5: google, find and download the zip archive with the batch file, scripts and tools needed
(root_with_restore_by_bin4ry_v17.zip did it for me)
step 6: extract the archive, best to some easily found directory like c:\rootit
step 7: start a command line (cmd.exe) (as administrator?)
note: the actual rooting only worked for me when i started the command line as administrator
step 8: start runme.bat from c:\rootit, ch
step 9: choose method 1, wait for it to finish
(all this information was googled and very little trial and error. did not take me more than 30mins with no clue before hand whatsover)
Drivers
can you please explain how did you installed drivers?
I'm having troubles following your manual. I need sina-1 for developing but i can't connect it with adb cause drivers aren't installed correctly.
tnx for review.. I bought SINA-2 and use your method of rooting and it works.. have U tried some custom rom already? I don't know which is compatible with my device...
Does anybody know how to flash recovery or custom rom to this tablet. I have googled and nothing found. Maybe there is no recovery or custom rom for this device.
Update 9 months later
very small update after a few months of light and sporatic use:
- rechargeable batterie runtime:
I might have overestimated the runtime originally. additionally, rechargeable batteries dont get better over time...
that means that you really will be running to the charger a lot at home and should take it with you.
do not expect to be able to surf the web or watch movies the whole day without recharging.
- wireless range:
the wireless range is really really bad.
I originally stated it to be not great, but actually it is really bad.
No other device I ever had or currently have had a worse range.
expect slow transfer speeds even when directly next to the router
expect trouble even behind one wall / more than 5m away
expect no connection or unuseable for anything expect the most rudimentary stuff (getting an email) behind more then 1 wall and/or more than 5m away
--> apparently this WAS a problem with the earlier SINA-1 tablets and LC-Power will fix it. This would also mean that the newer ones should not have this problem
--> this bad wireless connection might also be a reason for the bad batterie runtime
- micro-sd:
I've had bad trouble with my 32GB MicroSD card(s) (SANDISK 32GB SDHC microSD Class 10)
the previous tablet (mira-1) took it, my even older mobile took it, the SINA-1 did not...
since my 8GB and 16GB cards were working I thought my 32gb card is incompatibel
--> A few weeks ago I could test another SINA-1 (new), no trouble with my 32gb microsd...
- Android
no new android / update has been released by LC-Power (that I can find)
- Modding:
still no real community
- Apps / Games
a few games (that might need a somewhat more powerfull device) that I can tell you are working are:
magicka, pokerstars, terraria
- built, glas, buttons
after light and cautious use over many months, the tablet can still look like new (if you clean it)
I have no scratches, no color scraping off, the buttons dont wobble. its like new
- the power-in jack
this needs a mention too, since it really is not well done. the plug fits, but will fall out very very easily.
best not to move the tablet when you have it plugged in
conclusion:
my first review still stands more or less... for its price this is a okay tablet
if the wlan is indeed being fixed and the batterie will run a bit longer for the current sold devices, this is still a good buy for ~150 EUR
since I do not really know what is wrong with the microsd issue (my tablet broken? newer tablets unaffected) I can not use it for reviewing. but be warned
HOWEVER...
there is a new LC-Power SINA-2 tablet that I will be reviewing soon...
I will post the link later
Thank you so much for sharing.
Very useful review, thank you.
Sent from my LT30p using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Front camera not supporting video calls
Hi!
I was wondering if anyone who owns this tab had any issues with incoming/outgoing video calls (via skype/facebook/ooVoo).
Fact is, I can't make video calls via any of the above software, when i try, skype just blanks out and goes to previous screen. When incoming calls arrive it does the same but it says that I have a missed call.
OoVoo on the other hand connects to video call but automatically uses the back camera instead of front.
I don't get it. Any advices/ideas?
Thx
Here you go guys This tablet got CM10.2 fully working, with stock kernel <3
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=58477955&postcount=1187
Hope this helps!
The Grüß,
H.
And Sina 2 review?