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Excerpts from THIS 1/6/2010 press release
AT&T Press Release said:
AT&T Launches Major Initiative to Bring 'Apps to All'
Company Also Plans to Launch Five Android-Based Devices in First Half of 2010
Las Vegas, Nevada, January 6, 2010
...At the 4th annual AT&T Developer Summit in Las Vegas, executives outlined details including:
...AT&T will further its leadership in smartphones with the planned launch of five new devices from Dell, HTC and Motorola based on the Android platform. Those devices, which are scheduled to be available during the first half of 2010, include:
* A Motorola smartphone, powered by MOTOBLUR, with a unique form factor and an AT&T exclusive
* Dell’s first smartphone, based on the Android platform and an AT&T exclusive
* A HTC smartphone, based on the Android platform, and an AT&T exclusive
AT&T customers with these devices will benefit not only from the nation’s fastest 3G network but also the ability to simultaneously talk on the phone while surfing the Web or reading email. Customers can sign up for email notifications as more details are available at www.att.com/android.
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Will they make it? Will they be close? What Devices?
My guesses for the last three promised for mid year (though I don't think they're on track to make it), after the Moto Backflip and the Dell Aero:
* HTC Legend
* HTC Desire
* HTC Slide out dealie (their exclusive HTC)
After that, maybe the Samsung Galaxy S, Maybe a Moto Milestone.
If these things don't come to pass, then it will lend support to those that say that AT&T is enjoying too much success with it's iphone exclusivity to rock that boat by taking Android seriously. If AT&T keeps it's word, it will be an interesting 39 days until the end of the first half of the year.
with the recent rumors about the Lg Aloha, Samsung Galaxy S, Dell Aero, Dell Streak it seems like they might get some decent android phones. Only time will tell if they will jack them up like they did the backflip
AT&T has a habit of taking a good concept phone, castrating it, pricing it way too high, slapping their Nazi data plan requirement policies on it, and sticking it on the market. Nothing will change.
People with half a neuron buy their phones third-party, unlocked. My rooted G1 outperforms anything stock that AT&T puts out, thanks to the modding community.
Legend and Desire seem like plausible candidates. Also there was a "confirmed" rumor about the Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10, not sure what happened with regard to that one.
The Desire is too nice. I'm sure they'll pick 4 more craptastic Android phones if that. They may have a different version of what "the middle of the year" means.
dvdivx said:
They may have a different version of what "the middle of the year" means.
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Yeah, that thought occurred to me, but I don't think the bean counting year is the version they were referring to in the press release, though if they fail it could be a convenient excuse.
I hope they get on the stick - the HTC Desire would be a great fit.
the Sony xperia x10a, HTC Desire and Dell Aero mini ar the only ones left my guess is the Nexus 1 is the HTC exlcusive From a post I read yesterday ATT Iphone contract done in June? maybe it was July but its over with for sure this year Read somewhere local to me VZW picking up the iPhone 4, 3 employees in the store have the phone in their possession and are bound by a confidentiality agreement, but this is all speculation still but according to this they will come close to doing it even though all release dates are unofficial. My guess is they are having problems with branding and keeping them locked to their crapware only. http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/AT-T-Cingular-carrier-c_14_3.html
I'm sure this all old news though
So what does this say for an exclusive iPhone retailer selling more and more android phones....wonder how Stevie jobs feels bout this lol
Sent from my HTC Hero using Tapatalk
Ok, it's quite clear android is the most popular phone OS on the market at the moment but I'm beginning to believe that some of their less customer friendly strategies are making the carriers greedy. Back in the day when I was using my original blackjack each time there was an update to Winmo I knew that within a couple weeks ATT would get it my way without fail. Ever since the G1 though there's a new tactic used of course to sell more phones. Basically they can release the same exact phone with a new version of an OS or maybe a small feature (e.g. front facing camera) and sell just as much as the original. I mean why would carriers want to update your phone for you when they could sell you the exact same phone back with the newest version of android which is likely just a palette swap of the previous version? The refusal of most carriers to update their devices kicked off hard even with the initial release of android. The G1 was essentially the same phone as the MT3g except with the amazing keyboard we all fell in love with. The mytouch released months later with the exact same specs (you can even run the exact same roms on them) and yet the mytouch got an update whereas the G didn't. When people asked T-mobile where their G1 update was T-mobile said that it was not possible to run live wallpapers on such a dated device. Ever since then time and time again carriers and OEMs have let us down not because they cant do it but because they can sell us another device if they won't. A big selling point in getting the behold 2 for me was the fact that it would receive every update according to samsung... They never even built the drivers... I was stuck with a phone with a terrible UI. It happens time and time again and now similar things seem to be happening to other OSes. Blackberry is running into the same kind of thing where that more or less never happened before and I'm not ruling windows phone out just yet but I fear with greedy carriers they may end up following suit as much as I hate to admit it. The OEMs and carriers greed is killing smartphones. I mean android is open source and free, if they want to put it on a toaster they can. How hard is it to update? Really? I mean I know there's some one man teams on XDA who can do it... Dont let smartphones die.
It's not Android. It's more Google's policies. I love Google, but they have to grow some balls and tell the manufacturers that in order to be able to release an Android phone with the Google Apps, they need to release updates in X amount of months maximum after an update is delivered and they must support a phone for at least 2 OS iterations.
Forget Apple. Look at Microsoft. Windows Phone 7 isn't really for me since I like to tinker with my phone, although occasionally I wish it wasn't such a time waster. It is a great OS though. Microsoft first of all tells manufacturers that they can include custom apps, but no custom interfaces (this will never happen with Android). Then, they release an upgrade and all the phones get it. I'll admit it's a little easier since all WP7 have mostly the same parts, and definitely the same Snapdragon CPU since that's all WP7 OS supports right now. But this can totally be done by Google. I think the market is over-saturated with Android phones right now. Choice is good, but I don't want to pick up a phone and then immediately have it deemed obsolete. I mean after a while, I just want to walk away. I love Android, but it is getting kind of ridiculous. Obviously, manufacturers won't listen to us. Google is more likely to. They need to get a hold on things.
I see where you're coming ffrom, but you have to remember that companies (all companies) are here to make money. That's it. Make money.
So they'll mmake phones with skins because they get some percentage back from the phone; granted they could offer a pure Google phone but you have to remember: we aren't fhe target audience.
These phones are made for the average consumer that has the default and maybe twitter and facebook.
Of course, there will always be good pure Google phone out there to snag. I just got the Nexus 1 and ill be using this for a long time.
Hey!! This is really a great thread. I am really very impressed with your conversation.
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
butch87402 said:
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
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Well, that's more a T-Mobile issue than an Android issue, but I feel your pain.
All carriers are interested in is selling contracts and phones. They don't really care about peoples experiences after that point. They certainly won't want to encourage people to hang on to the same devices for years, but i think they should obligated to support their phones for at least the duration of the warranty. Any software updates released within that period should be pushed out immediately.
Don't be anxious, when u check technology developments in the past 20 years or more. How can we tell the difference between technology innovation and hunger for money?
'Greedy' is the nature of us human beings and it give us more happy and distress.
It's not the carriers you need to be worried about. Android is a fantastic OS and I love it and have gotten into the inner workings of it lately, to realize one thing: Google drives this whole deal. And since Google makes 98% of its money off of its Adsense program, wouldn't you agree that they would like to maintain/build that as much as possible? The more Google knows about where you are, your likes and dislikes, what you search for, etc, the better they can facilitate their moneymaking process. Google Apps (Gapps) are the way they do this, and why they are not included in a 'real' open souce project. Think it's bad now? Wait till Honeycomb....I've been tweaking this for the past 3 weeks and you wouldn't believe the permission changes that are related to google. Little things that were Hardware processes before (alert me when near an open wifi) are now basically (alert google your location thru gps at all times.). Of course there are ways around it, but the avg. user won't know that. Just fyi.
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
xaccers said:
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
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Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
z33dev33l said:
Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
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You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
xaccers said:
You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
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Cant say I have much experience with Symbian devices but on Winmo, palm, and earlier blackberries I always got updates. Android has shown they dont need to maintain their devices to sale them and I believe that can have a negative impact on phones as a whole
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
xaccers said:
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
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It's not so much that they prevent it as it is that they dont even really suggest it. It's just like "Oh, btw heres this update. You dont have to put work forth to put it on your device but it's there if you want it. It's really the OEMs and carriers fault as I stated but the fact that android doesnt put something forth to at least suggest it is sad.
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
xaccers said:
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
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Never said I hated android. It's just second best now. Of course phones lose support over time but not before they even hit shelves. When the Galaxy S phones were coming out they were promised a fast update to 2.2. It only took T-mobile 6+ months of customers complaining for them to be the first to update it stateside. My old blackjack made by the exact same company was recieving its last update at the end of my contract a full two years later. The HTC touch did the same, hell even my PPC6800 would've had that not been where I started flashing roms. Android phones are burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit shelves and that is something new. I dont expect a phone to be supported forever but for them to stop support by the time it hits shelves is just sad.
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
xaccers said:
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
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Amen.
[10 char]
xaccers said:
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
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Thats funny because I just flashed my G1 back to stop and I cant access a ton of the apps... I said it was the fault of the carriers and OEMs though I do wish android would at least suggest updating. I mean of all the android devices out there what percent of them do you think actually receive updates through the service providers or OEMs?
If you all remember from the Windows Phone Summit, it was mentioned that all devices launced will have (receive updates) for a period of 18 months.
What does this mean brothers? Does it mean every WP device released will be neglected and won't be able to upgrade to another major OS update just like today's 1st and 2nd gen devices after 18 months.
What if we get quad core, NFC and all these hardcore hardware goodies? Will a phone with all the wonderful specs still be neglected? I really don't see how if the Kernels and cores are not changed.
Typical example: Will the HTC One X and Samsung Galaxy III loose support for Android ONE DAY??? Even if the Android kernel and the cores still remain the same???
I'm really lost and need your opinions...any explanations?
Kenzibit said:
If you all remember from the Windows Phone Summit, it was mentioned that all devices launced will have (receive updates) for a period of 18 months.
What does this mean brothers? Does it mean every WP device released will be neglected and won't be able to upgrade to another major OS update just like today's 1st and 2nd gen devices after 18 months.
What if we get quad core, NFC and all these hardcore hardware goodies? Will a phone with all the wonderful specs still be neglected? I really don't see how if the Kernels and cores are not changed.
Typical example: Will the HTC One X and Samsung Galaxy III loose support for Android ONE DAY??? Even if the Android kernel and the cores still remain the same???
I'm really lost and need your opinions...any explanations?
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I hope it does lose support after 18 months as that leaves the room for new innovation every 18 months which is fantastic if you as an end user want value for money! 18 months in gadget years is a long time. I would rather prefer new screen res, new processors, new add-ons to the hardware that can be exploited using an updated OS. However, yes if the OS can do all these by not changing kernel etc, we might potentially still be able to update to newer OS, but would you not want those hardware features that evolve in 18 months? I would!
18 Months is too short...
Think of how the latest gen phones got a front facing camera, yet we won't see Skype integration unless we upgrade to WP8...
What features will the 2nd gen of WP8 phones get that won't be used until WP9?
18 months is wayyyy too short... 36 would be a more fair number!
Zhariak said:
18 Months is too short...
Think of how the latest gen phones got a front facing camera, yet we won't see Skype integration unless we upgrade to WP8...
What features will the 2nd gen of WP8 phones get that won't be used until WP9?
18 months is wayyyy too short... 36 would be a more fair number!
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For example, they could exploit the possibility of x86 instead of ARM?
or hexa-cores?
or kinect sensors?
Now imagine if we could run the new kernel and MSFT would give WP8 to us right now, but we had same hardware, we wouldn't be seeing those NFC goodies on our current phones or those games that exploit multicores!
Zhariak said:
18 Months is too short...
Think of how the latest gen phones got a front facing camera, yet we won't see Skype integration unless we upgrade to WP8...
What features will the 2nd gen of WP8 phones get that won't be used until WP9?
18 months is wayyyy too short... 36 would be a more fair number!
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That would be idiotic. 3 years?
And considering that Android manufacturers abandon you before you've even bought it, 18 months is perfectly fine.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
18 months is fine its the length of your contracts eligibility so essentially your phone will be supported until the next wave comes out.
18 months is perfect, means you can enjoy your latest update for a half year before your contract expires and you can renew it icm with a new phone.
Come to think of this, then someone like me need not buy a flagship phone. When WP8 comes out, they'll be low end, mid range and high end phones, since I don't play a lot of games on my phone and just use my social, forum and productivity apps, I really don't need to buy a WP GS3 or One X like WP which will no be supported in 18 months time. Both high end and low end WP 8 devices will not be supported in 18 months time then I better buy a cheap WP8 device when it comes out. Or am I wrong?
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
And also are they giving us 18 months support based on the expirations of contracts? If so then they are not being fair to some of us who buy phones off contract. You really need to use your phone like forever if you buy one coz they are damn expensive.
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
Kenzibit said:
And also are they giving us 18 months support based on the expirations of contracts? If so then they are not being fair to some of us who buy phones off contract. You really need to use your phone like forever if you buy one coz they are damn expensive.
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
Click to expand...
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Why is this such a complicated concept?
It's 18 months from when the phone is released.
If you buy a year old phone, then that would be your problem.
Sent from my SGH-I777
Personally, I think it should be at least 24 months, in the US we all end up with 2 year contracts. Now if you buy the phone 3-4 months after it's release, who's fault is that ? Yours not Microsoft.
Now here's another good question that should effect US users. Does this 18 months start when the phone is released by the Carriers or the OEM ? Phones released in the US tend to get an overseas release before the US, sometimes as much as 6 months (GSM or CDMA).
How about the case of the Verizon Trophy or the Sprint Arrive, for example. The GSM Trophy was released about 8-9 months BEFORE the CDMA releases of the Arrive or the (few weeks later) Trophy. Yea, people say they are different phones but, MS could say, no a Trophy is a Trophy. Are you saying when I buy a CDMA phone (better coverage in the US now) my upgrades from Microsoft could only be 6-7 months on a just released phone, that I just signed a new 2 year contract on (sorry Lumia 900 owners) ?????????????????
All I know, when the WP8 devices start shipping, I will watch for the most popular one on here, and buy that one, because the XDA hackers will give me WP9, even if Microsoft does not
All its saying is Microsoft has to support them for AT LEAST 18 months. It doesn't mean they're necessarily going to abandon every 18 month old phone. All the contract says is that they are obliged to support us for 18 months. Who knows? We might even get windows phone 9 on or wp8 devices if they are compatible!
Knowing how Microsoft updates Windows and the XBOX, I would bet that you would get EVERY update including the major release, Unless your over 18 months after release (after 18months you will get all minor releases but, no more major updates).
As in the xbox, if your system requres a update, you can not access xbox live till you update. I'm sure MS would want everything standardized and on the same level if possable.
The question is what happens after the 18 moths are up? Will they stop releasing apps for it? Will they shut the market place down for Windows Phone 7.8 users like they did with Windows Mobile forcing everyone to go to Windows Phone 8?
sinister1 said:
The question is what happens after the 18 moths are up? Will they stop releasing apps for it? Will they shut the market place down for Windows Phone 7.8 users like they did with Windows Mobile forcing everyone to go to Windows Phone 8?
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Click to collapse
Nothing happens after 18 months.
Sent from my SGH-I777
sinister1 said:
The question is what happens after the 18 moths are up? Will they stop releasing apps for it? Will they shut the market place down for Windows Phone 7.8 users like they did with Windows Mobile forcing everyone to go to Windows Phone 8?
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Click to collapse
Nothing really...
They stop supporting your device(as for updates). I know that just because WP9 hits, your apps are not going to stop working or anything like that. It just means just like now, your going to get a minor update for Wp 7.5, and they will move on to WP8, all current apps will work fine and most of WP8 apps would work too (some games and big production apps could be an acception.)
As someone posted on another thread, a programmer today creating an app for WP8 would want to make it backwards compatable to 7.5/8 to reach the most people possable and reach higher sales amounts. If you just make a WP8 only app, you limit the people who can access your app. Just makes business cense...
Some apps will need the WP8 features and those you will not be able to run (high impact games will be the acception for the most part).
DavidinCT said:
As someone posted on another thread, a programmer today creating an app for WP8 would want to make it backwards compatable to 7.5/8 to reach the most people possable and reach higher sales amounts. If you just make a WP8 only app, you limit the people who can access your app. Just makes business cense...
Some apps will need the WP8 features and those you will not be able to run (high impact games will be the acception for the most part).
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Click to collapse
But if it is a port from Android, iOS or even a Windows 8 Metro App, it is way easier to port to WP8 than to WP7, and if WP8 sales are good, it might not be profitable to support the small marketshare that WP7 holds.
However, as of today your statement is of course true because there is not even a WP8 SDK.
slimshady322 said:
But if it is a port from Android, iOS or even a Windows 8 Metro App, it is way easier to port to WP8 than to WP7, and if WP8 sales are good, it might not be profitable to support the small marketshare that WP7 holds.
However, as of today your statement is of course true because there is not even a WP8 SDK.
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Click to collapse
Any new OS version WON'T have a bigger marketshare than that times ongoing OS.
e.g.
WP7.5 will have more than WP7.8 at its launch
WP7.8 will have more than WP8 at its launch
WP8 will have more than WP9 at its launch
etc.
So... even if WP8 sales are good since day 1, it will take at least 6-8 months to overtake that time's WP7.x userbase.
In the least effect, a W8 developer who ONLY ports to WP8 is losing potential 12 million customers - simple maths.
Hi all,
I've been an Android user for about 4 years, and in that period I've had 4 phones (2 Moto, 1 Samsung and 1 Sony).
I understand the concept of programmed obsolescence, but this is ridiculous. My current phone, the Sony Xperia S, was released in Feb' 2012. Android 4.2 was released only 10 months later, but the Xperia S didn't get it. It should have been supported for 18 months, but Android 4.3 came out 15 months after it was released and it didn't get it either. Between the time I got the phone and a version of Android was out that it didn't get there were no more than a few weeks.
It was the exact same story with my Moto Milestones (1&2) and my Galaxy.
So even though I'm a big Android advocate, I'm really sick of this negligence. It's not that I always want the latest OS version for OCD reasons - I'm not an update freak or anything - but in each of those cases there were clear bugs or features that were simply left behind. I've had an iPad for a couple of years now and it's still getting updates and running anything from the Store - whereas my laggy Galaxy Tab 10.1 is left lying around most of the time, with a whole bunch of newer app versions that are "not compatible with your device". I don't want to switch to Apple for my phone, but my patience with these OS updates is running thin. I've tried custom ROMs with every one of my phones, but you really end up getting tired of the inevitable bugs and constant updating and flashing.
I was decided to get a Nexus 5, but then I read that the Nexus S did not get Android 4.2, which came out just 20 months after it was released. That's too little, considering most people buy their phones at least a few months after its release. That means that the average Nexus S buyer was only running the latest Android version for about a year - and it's a Nexus phone we're talking about here.
I know Google Play Edition phone makers commit themselves to updating their OSs for 18 months after they've been released. But I guess different manufacturers have different track records. I've looked around a little bit but I didn't find a thread that compiles that sort of information. I think this is a big deal and the Android user community should value OEMs that are careful about future-proofing their devices (even if "future" in this case means just a couple of years). But that's hard to keep track of, with so many models and manufacturers out there.
So I thought I'd ask everyone here how long they've owned their devices until it stopped receiving Android updates. Looking up release dates and last Android version isn't that useful because release dates & actual availability are 2 different things.
If I get enough data out of this I'll build a nice looking set of bar and pie charts with some sexy-ass bell curves to let people read this information and favor OEMs that are more careful about this.
Google's Android One has become one of the biggest technology flops of the year, and possibly of the decade.
Google had the best intentions when the tech mongol launched the Android One: offer standardized, quality devices for low prices in emerging markets. Sadly, not enough people bought into the vision to make it a success. The phone was to be offered to growing markets, focusing on the BRIC countries, reports*Forbes.
Full Article here - http://www.vcpost.com/articles/105045/20151110/google-kills-android-one-program.htm
But Woking fine with my device.
Sent from my Sparkle V using Tapatalk