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Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)
Ok guys I’ve been a follower of windows mobile now for the last 5 years. Xda, vario 2 & kaiser. But now the 3g phone is upon us I really think its time for us all to move on to a much superior phone and os. Microsoft have totally neglected the windows mobile platform that apple take very seriously. Microsoft even has to rely on a 3rd party developer in opera to release a browser that’s half usable!
Ok I admit the htc diamond, touch pro and Sony xperia do tempt me to stay with windows mobile but even with the fancy 3d interface they can’t hide the fact that it’s still using the very annoying and laggy 6.1 platform.
I’m constantly having problems with freezing on all my handsets and yes before you ask I always make sure I have enough free memory. It also totally pissed me off how htc treated us Kaiser Users with not supporting the device with 3d drivers does it really have 3d acceleration? One of the main reasons I chose this phone over the iphone was because I thought developers would start using the 3d capabilities.
Browsing the internet on the iphone is a total joy with the large screen and even though its only 0.7 inches bigger it feels huge compared to 2.8 Ok so the new diamond has a vga display 640x480 compared to the iphone 480x320 but it doesn’t matter how large the resolution is if we have to cram everything onto a small 2.8
And moving onto internal memory. How the hell do htc expect to compete with iphone with only giving the diamond none expandable internal memory of 4gig? Rofl jokers! How much does it cost them to put an extra 4 gig in to at least compete with the iphone 8gig? Maybe £10 extra considering 8gig micro sd cards only cost £20?? Talk about cost saving and maximum profit! I would love to have at least 16gig so I don’t have carry 2 devices, phone+mp3 player.
Ok sorry guys if I sound angry its just that I used to really love the windows mobile platform and I’ve not totally decided yet if I will get the iphone as I really don’t want to commit to 18 month contract with o2 in the uk and I know for a fact if 12 months time a new better version of iphone will be released
I have lots of hope for windows mobile version 7 and future htc devices but I really don’t want to wait that long before I can upgrade. But then again if I get a diamond or xperia then maybe I can just upgrade the rom to version 7 in the future? Gosh so much to think about! Getting a new phone has never been so complicated with so many dilemmas! Hehe
Anyway I better end this before I go on all night and ask you guys what’s your opinion of the new windows mobile phones there software and how they compare to the iphone?
dont let the door hit you on your way out.
my friend my ony bit of advice would be to think about which fits you better iphonies or winmo devices then make your decision from that. i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
Prodigal Son
We'll see you back here in a couple of months once you're bored out your face with the iphone...While your enjoying the music,pictures and the touch screen on you iphone , we'll be developing real useful things for our mobile devices....C'mon You know this already......
navymarvin said:
i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
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Click to collapse
Wow! What a long sentence!
navymarvin said:
my friend my ony bit of advice would be to think about which fits you better iphonies or winmo devices then make your decision from that. i think its almost like comparing a taxi and a police car they appear to be the same but are meant for two totally different things. the difference that i know is that winmo phones targets mostly business types and iphonies are for a more general consumer and about that gb thing iphonie was meant to be used also as an ipod winmo devices arent really meant to be used as zunes they do have some of the capabilities though as far as whether they should be headed in that direction is a whole different can of worms i hope that made a little since and good luck with your decision my only question is if you may be on your way out the door on to iphonies why in the h e double hockey sticks would you join a winmo based community lol your 15 mins?
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Click to collapse
Yea i agree, winmo devices are def. more business oriented while the iphone is just for anyone that can use a phone...and plus it's apple!
you yourself call it the "darkside", so i dont think that be a good move...winmo is the "force"
I think its funny you just joined, and your first post is this...
I'm right there with you though, kaiser (tilt) is gone as soon as the 3g iphone is out.
I love everything winmo can do, but iphone does it out of the box. Atleast what I want it for, except mms(wtf?).
There will be tons of apps out for it soon enough, and im sure plenty of them will do the same type of things winmo can do.
caned said:
Time to move to the dark side (3g iphone)
Ok guys I’ve been a follower of windows mobile now for the last 5 years. Xda, vario 2 & kaiser. But now the 3g phone is upon us I really think its time for us all to move on to a much superior phone and os. Microsoft have totally neglected the windows mobile platform that apple take very seriously. Microsoft even has to rely on a 3rd party developer in opera to release a browser that’s half usable!
Ok I admit the htc diamond, touch pro and Sony xperia do tempt me to stay with windows mobile but even with the fancy 3d interface they can’t hide the fact that it’s still using the very annoying and laggy 6.1 platform.
I’m constantly having problems with freezing on all my handsets and yes before you ask I always make sure I have enough free memory. It also totally pissed me off how htc treated us Kaiser Users with not supporting the device with 3d drivers does it really have 3d acceleration? One of the main reasons I chose this phone over the iphone was because I thought developers would start using the 3d capabilities.
Browsing the internet on the iphone is a total joy with the large screen and even though its only 0.7 inches bigger it feels huge compared to 2.8 Ok so the new diamond has a vga display 640x480 compared to the iphone 480x320 but it doesn’t matter how large the resolution is if we have to cram everything onto a small 2.8
And moving onto internal memory. How the hell do htc expect to compete with iphone with only giving the diamond none expandable internal memory of 4gig? Rofl jokers! How much does it cost them to put an extra 4 gig in to at least compete with the iphone 8gig? Maybe £10 extra considering 8gig micro sd cards only cost £20?? Talk about cost saving and maximum profit! I would love to have at least 16gig so I don’t have carry 2 devices, phone+mp3 player.
Ok sorry guys if I sound angry its just that I used to really love the windows mobile platform and I’ve not totally decided yet if I will get the iphone as I really don’t want to commit to 18 month contract with o2 in the uk and I know for a fact if 12 months time a new better version of iphone will be released
I have lots of hope for windows mobile version 7 and future htc devices but I really don’t want to wait that long before I can upgrade. But then again if I get a diamond or xperia then maybe I can just upgrade the rom to version 7 in the future? Gosh so much to think about! Getting a new phone has never been so complicated with so many dilemmas! Hehe
Anyway I better end this before I go on all night and ask you guys what’s your opinion of the new windows mobile phones there software and how they compare to the iphone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I-Phone= Fun device for people who want to be told what to do (and yes it does kick Windows Mobile device in functionality from here to India).
Win Mo Phones= Not being told what to do
I my friend am not a replicant.
Is this person trying to advertise to us or what? First post ever is this?? Have fun with your still limited iPhone. Forget about internal memory, my 160MB is more than enough for all my apps with over 50 left, I'll use an 8GB SDHC for all my music and movies, and if I want more memory, I'll use another! But, can anyone honestly tell me why this phone might be better? This new model pretty much hits the bottom of the list on what our devices have been doing.
Moving On...U were never Here! Good Luck if U ever have to replace the battery!
It’s funny how some people look on the iphone as the evil enemy without even giving it a chance. You see the same in many other formats, Intel vs amd, ati vs NVIDIA or even the Xbox 360 vs ps3. Some people pick a side and follow it almost like a religion even when the product is totally out done by the opposition. Intel vs amd is a good example. Why would anyone buy an amd processor at the moment is beyond me lol but they still do! amd kicked arse a few years back I must admit.
I’m still very tempted to try the touch pro as it looks a very nice phone that can be expanded to 8gig with micros sd but I guess lots of damage was done with all the problems I had with my Kaiser. Let’s hope roms of the htc diamond improve and we get a nice speedy interface similar to the iphone.
I didn’t mean to make this post sound like a I hate windows mobile I think Microsoft’s only just realised how important this market is so I have high hopes for windows mobile 7 and new htc devices in late 2008 early 2009 and the new NVIDIA apx2500 chip looks amazing! Check this out!
The CPU integrates an Ultra Low Power GeForce GPU that supports both OpenGL ES 2.0 and Direct3D Mobile, to provide sophisticated 3D interfaces. The design, based on the ARM11 750MHz processor, will be built on a 65nm manufacturing process and sport 256KB of level 2 cache.
According to the company, the APX 2500 device can play 10 hours of video or 100 hours of audio from a single charge of an iPhone-size battery.
Perhaps controversially, the APX 2500 CPU will only support Windows Mobile. Humber confirmed that this was a marketing, rather than technical choice. "We feel that Windows Mobile is placed for real growth right now
If only we had windows mobiles devices with this chip now as it really would kick the iphones ass!
I was once torn as you but now with the touch pro on the way, we will have everything we ever needed! The touch flo will be perfected, the ram, the mhz, the keyboard... Finally an interface (touchflo 3d) that is smooth! (we hope better than the diamond) And I'm sorry to say as many of you are GSM lovers including myself, if the touch pro hits the Sprint CDMA network with REV-A, That baby is gonna blaze with apps like youtube, and video streaming like sling box, etc, etc. better camera with flash, same size as tilt (almost) which was a great size for what it was packing! I truly feel that the touch pro will open the doors wide open for WM in 2008. Carriers like at&t and sprint would be fools not to pick this device up. I am sure it will be a hit any all the major carriers will have it. You will see!
iPhone is an iPhone and Windows mobile phone is a windows mobile phone. Stop comparing between WM devices and iPhones. WM devices are great but sometimes it tends to hang every now and then. iPhone seems to be too sweet but then it doesn't over the versatility of a phone (unless you're more into multimedia oriented ). flame me if you wish , its just like comparing apples and oranges together.
I am in the same situation as Caned's. I, too have been a windows mobile believer for as lomg as I can remember. I started with Casio cassiopeia, then a HP Ipaq, then a Blue Angel, then a Wizard, then a Hermes and now with a Kaiser for 10 months or so. I must admit the OS has barely been improved over the past err... 10 years (!), I agree with Caned it has been neglected by MS and I am now fed up of it. IE is appalling, and although there are alternatives to IE, they tend to run in a sluggish way (Opera Mobile) or have serious limitations (OperaMini, for example).
To Apple's credit, the iPhone has changed the way people view and use their phone, and although its market share is very low (Apple is not even among the top 5 mobile manufacturers in the US where its popularity is atits highest), it led mobile phone manufacturers to reconsider what a mobile phone stands for.
For the first time in 10 years I am now thinking of leaving WinMobile and switching to an alternative with a much more user-friendly, attractive OS. The iPhone 3G fits the bill. I never thought much of the iPod when it was released, but I won a nano recently and I must admit I am impressed.
The only thing that stops me from queing on 11/07 outside a O2 store here in the UK is the inability to use the iPhone as a 3G modem with my laptop. I can live with all other limitations of the phone (cant send MMS, camera of only 2MP, text forwarding) and the various ways in which the iPhone delivers a superior user experience relative to HTC phones. WM6.1 was supposed to improve WM6 which was (supposedly) better than WM5 which itself was (supposedly) better than WM2003SE and WM2003. Comparing WM2003 with WM6.1, I can hardly see the difference..!
Sorry guys, but talking to some who defected to the iPhone from winmobile do not regret the switch. Lets see what comes next, but it is time for MS to put its money where its mouth is and deliver a product that, finally matches the user experience delivered by competitors.
On the "lighter side" of things, I remember going to the "dark side" of winmo from my palm lifedrive, because I only wanted one device. So, I guess "ds" is a matter of perspective. Symbian, or android, anyone? jk, I like wm6.1 for now
i've been using wm for like 8 years now. the only time i moved to "the dark side" was when i tried out the nokia n95. but as per my signature below, i saw the light and moved back to wm =)
Uh, you will be missed..
This seems like a reoccurring post here. My original response to a similar thread:
The iPhone is still just for the 12 and under crowd and hippies too dumb to understand WM based phones. We will always need the iPhone for the same reason we will always need the big tag on the hair dryer telling us not to use it in the tub!
I have to agree with Caned here, whatever is released by HTC etc is just the same old windows mobile skinned up. Until v7 with multi touch comes out and the devices are built to support it then I think its time to look elsewhere for a while - probably an N96 in my case. I have no doubt that I'll be back for another WinMo device but I don't think it will be before the huge overhaul that M$ have been promising for months/years. The only aspect that makes WinMo vaguely usable is that people here write such amazing additions for it and give us access to ROM updates that networks etc don't want us to have.
In short, M$/HTC started a great trend for devices that cover all needs, unfortunately M$ slowed development and the competition (Apple/Symbian) have caught up/overtaken.
Hi,
I was looking at the iSuppli figures for the new iPhone 3GS and the Pal Pre and looking at the specifications of those phones it seems like they heavily outweigh even newer devices like touch pro 2 which cost like 30% or more. The Pre and the 3GS have
Much better application processors. ARM Cortex 8 approximately 50-70% faster than the ones in omnia
Separate Applications and Base Band Processors
Capacitive touch screens
16 Million color screens
Higher capacity and quality NAND memory
Considering that these manufacturers are also including costs of R&D for their OS in the phone price as well while manufacturers like HTC, Samsung and Acer just build shells for Windows Mobile which should be a lot cheaper how are the higher prices justified?
Another thing, people from HTC have been complaining for some time now that an 18bit color more would be too much of a hit/not possible in Winmo and are still sticking to 16bit while with the upcoming Omnia pro and Omnia II Samsung is using 24bit and 18bit respectively. The only thing better about Winmo device screens is the higher resolution.
The only thing besides hardware for Windows phone manufacturers is case design and shell development. Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? I would like to hear what long time users think of it.
PS: Got 3GS and Pre information from http://www.cellular-news.com/story/37945.php
Constructive comments please
Thanks
[QUOTE Do you think that undercutting quality of parts without much justification is ok? [/QUOTE]
I don´t think it´s ok.
I decided to stay in HTC line devices for one great reason that makes the diference: XDA-DEVS!!!!
Without this great site I might turn my interest on Toshiba new devices, even with WM.
I don´t have any good comment respect the others OS...
Perhaps Android in a mid-future term...
They ask as much as possible for a device. Actually that's the reason I'd never really buy the rhodium. HTC always releases devices with a little flaw they fix in the next device (but make a new flaw, like FM radio in rhodium). What we need isn't that much: (F)WVGA, Tegra/Snapdragon/OMAP, 5-8 megapixel camera WITH flash and such others. I hope that Acer F1 is going to rock so I can buy my next device
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
to be honest, the only reason i buy htc/winmo devices is this site....and the fact i can get tomtom on it
but now i see tomtom is on the iphone, having used an iphone this week, i can say there are things il ike about it, but its a bit to dumbed down for me i feel, but then, it does just work, and the touchscreen seems to work much better than any htc device i've used
i seriously miss having a flashlight, i mean camera flash on my phone, my old samsung d500 was brilliant in the dark, also miss having a camera that doesn't have wierd blue on it all the time no matter how much i seem to fiddle with it
galaxys said:
Just heard today the the new iphonie 3gs sold a million units already
Hope HTC gets there sh#t together soon...
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Yeah, the iPhone is ****ingly well done... I have tons of WinMo devices but, for most tasks, I use my iPhone 3G. It's, hardware-wise, so much better than those lame resistive screen-based HTC craps...
And yes, as soon as the 3G S arrives here (in July), I'll be among the first to purchase it. I love gaming on these things.
true. i am tired of defending htc with my friends who have iphone. even the new palm pre which i tested today is so sweet. the screen jumps at u. i loved it
when my contract is up next month i am so buying an iphone.
the only reason i stayed so long is XDA and the tweaking i could do. kept me interested but now i dnt have time to be tweaking.
i want a phone that works and does what it needs to do without constant resetting and tweaks from XDA
I believe HTC made the best financial choice for this year. Due to Economical situation they know there will less demand on high end devices. Therefore they have not risk any high R&D and expensive parts. They choose already existing platforms and just add few more spec. I believe that is the best way to keep their profit margins!!!! The sad thing is they do have still advantage over the other hardware manufacturers which makes them too confident.
Beside from the Hardware issues on the WinMO I believe it is the OS that keeps all Hardware manufacturer and also Software makers struggle. Window Mobile OS clearly out aged but Microsoft is not fast enough to come up with something NEW and BETTER. Be frank WinMo 6.5 is just a joke. It has no major changes. Win 7 has delayed few times and besides no one knows what going to come out from that development.
Clearly if MS and HTC continue in such way they sure will be losing huge market which we already started to see!!!!!
I know..many WinMo supporters will say compare to WinMo..Iphone can’t do this... Iphone can’t do that. The fact is that 90% consumer that buy a device for 500-900USD don’t wanted spend their entire time to tweak and modify a expensive device to function a bit better!!! Beside most of those are not technical and therefore the learning curve to handle WinMo is much much longer.
I believe as a long term user of WinMo we become use to the limitation of MS OS and hardware so that we already see those as normal. But I do trust that many of us forget that WE PAYING REALLY 500-900 USD for piece of CRAP!!!
We just NEED to see the falling prices of Notebooks and Netbooks then we know how much we over paying for our HTC devices.
"HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success."
Infuckingdeed.
Menneisyys said:
HTC is a joke. They can only blame themselves and their lousy hardware / drivers for iPhone's being a huge success.
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I was scared that XDA-Devs is a fanboy site, with no rational thinking allowed. Glad to see this isn't the case.
Let's call a spade is a spade - HTC has ridden way too long on the coattails of cheap design, cheap QVGA screens and crap hardware with no or poor drivers, selling for $649 unlocked.
Does anyone know when HTC will be releasing a snapdragon powered device? My upgrade is due soon and I would love to stick with HTC, but the Toshiba TGO1 has been picked up by Orange in the UK and the specs just look mouthwatering, so right now I am drooling over that. I found a few rumours of HTC releasing snapdragon devices later this year but possibly android powered.
Mmm...
I´m sure I have saw something about this before:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=495830&highlight=snapdragon
or
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517826&highlight=snapdragon
No specific date is mentioned but if you see the Tosh and HTC roadmaps beginings of next year probably we will see something about it...
Thanks for the interesting links.
Not soon enough...htc needs to get off there big duff!
If you do need Snapdragon (I would - I've tested the TG01 back in February and LOVED the speed), currrently, the Toshi TG01 is the only way to go.
I don't think HTC will release a phone with it in the near future (that is, before next year).
was just looking up new phones, also trying to stick to htc, mainly because of this site
found this:
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1783&c=htc_firestone_100
htc Firestone... apparently sporting a snapdragon QSD8250, though clocked at 600MHz...
Menneisyys said:
If you do need Snapdragon (I would - I've tested the TG01 back in February and LOVED the speed), currrently, the Toshi TG01 is the only way to go.
I don't think HTC will release a phone with it in the near future (that is, before next year).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How was it for size and build quality? You get to play with all the nice toys! Oh and what did you think of the screen? I know it is huge but the hype claims that it incorpoates all tosh's TV manufactuing skills and that it sets a new standard.
All the up comming snapdragon devices look like a big step for win mo, I hope it pans out well with all the proper drivers and an OS worthy of the device spec.
One worry about the TGO1 is will cooked roms be available? Stock roms are just so unsatisfying!
Have a look into one of the great thread/reports from meneysys, there is one regarding his experience on TG0.
Well as TG0 is not an HTC build I can hardly to see cooked ROM´s here...
I really hope next year HTC will launch somethin for 2010!
Sorry double post please delete
id love to know the reason behind the BUT POSSIBLY ANDROID POWERED, android is going to take over the mobile market with 18 different devices coming out this year alone
uniqueboy said:
How was it for size and build quality? You get to play with all the nice toys! Oh and what did you think of the screen? I know it is huge but the hype claims that it incorpoates all tosh's TV manufactuing skills and that it sets a new standard.
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It was HUGE. I,personally, wouldn't buy it as it's still resistive. TG02 (to be released later this year), on the other hand, is stated to have a capacitive screen - THAT may become my best WinMo friend and may be able to even beat my iPhone when it comes to Web browsing.
Menneisyys said:
It was HUGE. I,personally, wouldn't buy it as it's still resistive. TG02 (to be released later this year), on the other hand, is stated to have a capacitive screen - THAT may become my best WinMo friend and may be able to even beat my iPhone when it comes to Web browsing.
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Click to collapse
Will TGO2 recognise a stylus though? I suppose it just won't need one but so many win mo apps still need a stylus for some things.
Any way now to go and read through some of Menneisyys's articles.
uniqueboy said:
Will TGO2 recognise a stylus though?
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Click to collapse
I don't think so. Nevertheless, on even my 3.6" iPhone the capacitive touchscreen is, in general, VERY exact. On the considerably larger (IIRC) 4.1" screen of the TG02, I don't think you'll ever need it. Or, hopefully, the Toshi engineers come up with some kind of e.g. 2x or 4x (hardware) magnification for more exact tapping.
I am wondering if it would be possible to combine the two technologies on the same screen. I think that a special electrically charged stylus could be made which would work on a capacitive screen.
Looks like there will be a few other new processors in the pipeline for mobile devices in the not too distant future, the NVidea chip looks promising, but not too sure about atom in a phone. It seems odd that the ARM processor is still going so strong after so long. Wasn't it the power behind such things as the BBC micro and the Acorn Electron in the 80s?
" I think that a special electrically charged stylus could be made which would work on a capacitive screen."
there already are such stylus which work on iphones
but of cause the iphone don't have writing req software as it is now
Rudegar said:
there already are such stylus which work on iphones
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Click to collapse
There is, but it sucks and is pretty much useless. The only way of implementing this without sacrifying screen quality (that is, without adding a resistive layer) would be adding a radio sensor layer under the screen, just like the one in most Tablet PC's. This, however, may result in huge stili.
HTC late on new hardware
Don't forget that HTC is selling it's services to Toshiba, Sony and so on for developing and manufacturing devices.
And those want exclusive features garantied for a certain amount of time.
If you take a look at the pro 2 it is quite simular to the X1 on the hardware side.
Therefore HTC will probably never will be the first to bring out new hardware - even so they developed the combination. It is sold to the other PDA makers and then followed up by their own device with about the same features - just delayed a couple of month (and with better software .
WM6.5 when?
I'm still pondering the TGO1, but wm6.1 I can live without. I see that orange will but providing an upgrade to wm6.5, but I don't see when. I was wondering if anyone has any insider knowledge or any inkling at all as to when this upgrade might be available? Or just when will MS finally release it? (when xda devs have made it work properly for them for free I expect)
There's a snapdragon-based Xperia rumored to come out later this year in Android flavor, the X3. I'd believe that Xperias are made by HTC, are they not (though branded by Sony Ericsson)?
no, the Xperia was made by HTC, but not the successors.
With the advent of iPhone (love or hate), and Android devices the broadcast media seem to be touting this technology as new, ignoring that us faithful WinMo users have been creating, downloading and using 'apps' and generally customising our phones for years.
I never hear of new releases for WinMo, but plenty about iPhone and increasingly Android - I'm thinking Spotify client and the new actual reality stuff where data is superimposed on the camera view; but there are many others.
I know there's loads of us out there, and we tend to look after ourselves, but the mainstream appears to be shunning the WM operating system.
I'd pay for a Spotify client, a WM version of Dynolicious, and I'm quite excited about actual reality, but I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology.
So if we refute that, and laud the benefits of winmo.. will that reaffirm your belief in this mobile o/s?
Always dangerous letting others dictate whats relevant to your world.
66mustang said:
With the advent of iPhone (love or hate), and Android devices the broadcast media seem to be touting this technology as new, ignoring that us faithful WinMo users have been creating, downloading and using 'apps' and generally customising our phones for years.
I never hear of new releases for WinMo, but plenty about iPhone and increasingly Android - I'm thinking Spotify client and the new actual reality stuff where data is superimposed on the camera view; but there are many others.
I know there's loads of us out there, and we tend to look after ourselves, but the mainstream appears to be shunning the WM operating system.
I'd pay for a Spotify client, a WM version of Dynolicious, and I'm quite excited about actual reality, but I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMHO, the reason that you hear more regarding the other o/s's is that they are newer and have much less testing and use than winmo does, not to mention less apps as well as more more problems and issues! Each time a new version of winmo comes out, we have to deal with the same types of problems, but as it is a more developed platform, it does not take as long to work out the bugs.
A good example here is when MS created that p.o.s system known as Vista! It was JUNK! Then over time, it got a bit better, but MS finally got smart and gave up on fixing it's many issues and has now developed Win 7.
Later............
Phen0m said:
So if we refute that, and laud the benefits of winmo.. will that reaffirm your belief in this mobile o/s?
Always dangerous letting others dictate whats relevant to your world.
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Click to collapse
What a rediculous argument. I know WM is the best mobile OS, but then Betamax was the best video system.
I'm not talking about what's important for me, I'm talking about what people see as available - WM gets no mainstream media coverage, no-one goes into shops asking for it (just try going into an O2 shop or Carphone Warehouse and attempting to get an informed conversation from the sales staff about any WM device) and then we get a snowball effect where none of the 'killer' apps are being devloped for it - all efforts are being made towards the iPhone because it's sexy, WM is much better, more flexible, but ultimately nerdy (not that the general public even know it exists).
Maybe it'll remain as the business class mobile OS, which I'll be happy with as there's always the skilled people on here and similar sites to keep the software coming. Thanks guys.
I think one of the main reasons why WinMo is being left behind is because other people are intimidated by it. iPhone and Android are more user friendly with less things to worry about. Whenever I suggested a WinMo phone to my friends, they always say something along the lines of "I don't want to get stuck with a bunch of problems"
I will say, that it does take some kind of persistance and knowledge of how this OS works in order to be able to fiddle around with it. In the mean time, I guess android and iPhone are the "go-to" devices for people who want something easy to start with.
I honestly would never choose an iPhone, and I've never used an Android, so I wouldn't know how closely Android resembles WinMo.
theomni said:
I honestly would never choose an iPhone, and I've never used an Android, so I wouldn't know how closely Android resembles WinMo.
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While the iPhone 3GS is becoming what the iPhone should have been in the first place - I would never get an iPhone either for all the familiar reasons. The iPhone's main UI is an icon fest. I'd like to seem more information on the home screen. Also, the control freakery of Apple when it comes to what apps are allowed to run is unacceptable to me.
Android on the other hand is leaving WM completely behind. The HTC Hero is just amazing. It makes WinMo look very clunky indeed. You have the power, flexibilty and openness of the WM platform, with almost the polish and usability of the iPhone platform - but with multi-tasking.
What's worse is that this does not have to be the case. PointUI shows what's possible with existing WM technology but for some reason M$ hasn't gone there up to now.
I have not seen WM6.5 or WM7 yet so I can't comment on how they are addressing the issue in these new versions.
Android need a while longer to mature. But at this moment it seems like Android is the new windows mobile. Customizable, opensource, HTC, app store, its like the bastard step child of what would happen if the IPHONE and WINMO had a one night stand. That said, I don't feel like Winmo is being left behind. You only need to look at the Samsung who makes phones for everyone but the Omnia was its "THE PHONE" and it ran on windows. HTC will not abandon windows, look at the anticipation for TD2 TP2. Toshiba is getting into the fray. Nvidia will soon be throwing some love into windows (based upon the look of the Zune HD, we could be in for some fun). Lets be honest, the phone market is Winmo'd out. Every brand except Nokia is cranking out phones and its an oversaturated market. Which is why its hard for any particular brand to make a big splash unless they innovate, innovation will push this market foward. This is an exciting time to have windows.
However, i do believe the problem is this, hardware. Clearly Winmo is a huge system to carry. Simple things need to disappear..huge load times, massive lag. These things make our devices, no matter how current the software is, seem ancient. This is up to M$ to fix, and for developer (HTC) to start addressing by using proper hardware...I'm tired of having underpowered devices, I'm tired of key things missing, companies need to step up to the plate. I applaud Toshiba for loading the TG01 to the teeth with hardware, but am disappointed in them letting a 5 year old design their interface. Like it or love it....this is where we sit. I wouldn't trade it for any other OS.
I think you're right when you say that every man and his dog are knocking out winmo phones - how many X1 users are aware that behind their panels is WM? It's not a must have for the average punter, at least not like the iPhone, that is just lovely to look at, but that's where it ends for me. When their adverts brag that you can cut and paste - to me that's the measure of the device. I would have been gutted if I'd got one and found it wouldn't do the simplest of tasks - almost like making a Walkman with no headphone socket; pointless.
I've no experience of Android, so i can't comment, but it appears to be going where WM should be.
I just wish that the mainstream media were a little more informed about WM and it's benefits, not least the adaptability and flexibility and the years of experience that is available.
I'm stuck on Windows Mobile because it's the only platform with the functionality I demand.
Android shows promise, and it may even have a decent Office suite if someone's ported OpenOffice.org (to help me overcome the lack of SoftMaker Office), but I don't know if the multimedia format support will be as good as TCPMP on Windows Mobile, and I certainly don't know if it has a PIM suite worth dirt, let alone capable of standing up to the good old Pocket Informant + PocketBreeze combo (or, better yet, an Apple Newton MessagePad 2000/2100, which is actually still a better device than the new iPhones and iPod touches in some respects, especially if it's PIM and battery life).
I must admit, though, the Creative Zii Egg enticed me with its specs. It just fell flat by not having a hardware keyboard and only having a 480x320 screen when I'm used to 640x480 and want to move all the way up to 800x480. Then again, the other device I want-the Samsung Mondi-has only a microSDHC slot as opposed to a full-size SDHC slot and only 4 GB of internal storage instead of a whopping 32 GB. It also lacks multitouch, but at least the resistive digitizer permits a stylus with a fine point. Finally, it's 50 US$ more expensive than the Zii Egg.
(Also, you might notice something in common with those two devices: they are NOT phones. What happened to the non-phone Windows Mobile devices, ruggedized GETAC units aside? I mean, Apple has the iPod touch for those who want most of the iPhone experience, but don't want to be tied to AT&T and may not even care for the phone part. The Samsung Mondi was a surprising exception to that rule, though it veers close to phone territory with that WiMAX radio. Just wait 'til Clearwire gets some actual coverage, and Mondi owners are gonna Skype/Google Voice/VoIP it up...)
I believe Windows Mobile is being left behind in terms of processing speed of its applications. Sure they are releasing devices with powerful processors to cope up, but I believe the best solution is to redesign WM from within, so that even slow processors can handle humongous applications. Other than that...I don't think I have any other complaints against WM. That is why I have always been praying for more powerful devices.
Honestly, I think the truth is that WM6 is going to be dead in the near future. I expect WM7 to be a radical departure from previous versions, and I think we'll see a more powerful, more functional, more consumer-friendly ecosystem emerge. Unless, of course, it tanks.
WM6 isn't dead yet from a user standpoint and there IS new software being released, especially cool little user-made apps. For flashy commercial apps, though, I think it's largely a dead platform. Windows Mobile was developed as an OS for executives and tech geeks, not mainstream consumers. That won't change until WM7.
Lets be honest, if winmo came out properly and had all the OS functionality the we crave, this site would be severely lacking. The majority of the apps for WINMO are used to do things that the should be successfully doing in the first place. Finger friendly menus, better functionality (calendar,appointments,settings..etc), and more eye pleasing apps (SMS,contacts,taskmanager)....these are the short comings of winmo....but our biggest flaw might honestly be our biggest perk.
I like tweaking, I like to choose what I want, skin it how I want it, I can go from Vito-contacts to I contacts, to finger friendly contacts...I can play with SPB3, Winterface, Pointui....I can make my phone whatever I want it...do that with an Iphone....matterfact, I'll take my Touch HD and do the Iphone UI for you, hell give us a few months and I'll show you android as well.
It seems with Manila 2.5 coming, and Samsung's Omnia2 rolling, windows is doing just fine. If you want to see a TV commercial about it...don't blame M$, they just create the OS...blame the companies who make the phones for not advertising, but I don't believe advertising is needed because our phones sell themselves. M$ just needs to tidy up some of the UI, make it snappy make it transition, make it not hog memory, and the Hardware will make it sing. Right now we have the hardware with the software which is why the Omnia2 still lags and runs slow even though its running 800MHz. WINCE ftw.
Right now honestly, I hold my breath for the X3...it makes android look so silky
66mustang said:
What a rediculous argument. I know WM is the best mobile OS, but then Betamax was the best video system.
I'm not talking about what's important for me, I'm talking about what people see as available - WM gets no mainstream media coverage, no-one goes into shops asking for it (just try going into an O2 shop or Carphone Warehouse and attempting to get an informed conversation from the sales staff about any WM device) and then we get a snowball effect where none of the 'killer' apps are being devloped for it - all efforts are being made towards the iPhone because it's sexy, WM is much better, more flexible, but ultimately nerdy (not that the general public even know it exists).
Maybe it'll remain as the business class mobile OS, which I'll be happy with as there's always the skilled people on here and similar sites to keep the software coming. Thanks guys.
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Sorry if this gets off topic, but I find Phen0m had a valid point, and in fact, philosophically a sound argument. Even more so when you say "I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology."
On topic, the question for me is left behind "in what areas?" I believe you are absolutely right about the press coverage, the hype etc and that the more consumer oriented, mass market kind of apps could end up not being developed for the WM platform if the market is too small. Possibly you could always speculate that there will be some differentiation in the market, where one brand/and or platform could become the premier consumer product, and other platforms become more corporate centric. This type of niche development would be natural in most markets.
On the other hand, many consumers don't care what the OS is, and so we've seen reasonable success with Samsung's Omnia and HTC's Diamond. As long as there is widespread consumer acceptance of WM phones it's likely consumer oriented apps will be developed.
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
In some respects Microsoft has one hand tied behind its back on this one. As the iPhone and Android develop further they will also hit the same problem. CE 6.0 may allow a few major changes but that will probably be WinMo 7. 6.5 seems a bit half-baked as yet.
stephj said:
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
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I have a feeling that WM7 might not support previous WM apps (though I assume it'll be easy to port, especially .NET stuff). I could be wrong, but I have a definite suspicion that MS actually WANTS a clean break.
typo said:
I could be wrong, but I have a definite suspicion that MS actually WANTS a clean break.
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You could be right.
WM certainly needs a clean break. Android is a breath of fresh air.
stephj said:
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
In some respects Microsoft has one hand tied behind its back on this one. As the iPhone and Android develop further they will also hit the same problem. CE 6.0 may allow a few major changes but that will probably be WinMo 7. 6.5 seems a bit half-baked as yet.
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I disagree here, because a lot of developers have dumped everything prior to Windows Mobile 5 already. It puts me between a rock and a hard place when it comes to deciding which OS to run on my hx4700, at least until I can afford the Samsung Mondi.
Windows Mobile 2003 SE and earlier have no decent Web browsers (about the best you're going to get is IBM J9 + Opera Mini, and getting that running in full VGA is a hassle), no new Skype client support, no new media players, and who knows what else.
If Windows Mobile 7 gets a focus on the finger, though, then they'll definitely need a clean break. Heck, it's even stated to have multi-touch as a REQUIREMENT. I just hope it doesn't come at the expense of the stylus.
This thought has occurred to me in the last few months. WM is nothing in the public eye due to a lack of press. There is a flip side to this though.
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Luckily it can be skinned so Samsung, HTC, Toshiba, etc... can spice it up, put their own spin on it and actually brand it with their phones. Once HTC created TouchFlo and the other companies picked up on this feature, WM became much more valuable to the phone manufacturers. It allows them create a brand identity without spending the time and money on creating a new OS. They get the tried and true while looking innovative. The hardware and interfaces will need to improve for WM to retake the market again.
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I've never used Android so no comment. The iphone is all about apps and advertising. The clones love it and that is a powerful market tool, but eventually it will have to graduate to a true multitasking system to hang on. Palm, Blackberry and WM are always adjusting when forced so I expect major improvements in what we get once the world economy changes course.
What I'm thinking is that Microsoft waited a little too long to start catching up. Maybe they didn't think the iPhone was a threat...or maybe they thought that HTC and others could do things like TouchFlo3d and TouchWiz and "cover up"...but as it stands now, we've had a few years, the iPhone has had several iterations, Android is releasing its second go-around of products, the Pre is now on stage one, and the "old guys" like WinMo, BlackBerry, S60, are left holding the bag.
6.5 is too little, too late. ZuneHD's interface is AMAZING...so if Microsoft thinks to put something like it with WM7, it won't be too little, but it may still be too late.
(As far as I'm concerned, Nokia and RIM are in the same boat, and they are actually doing worse at catching up than Microsoft with the OS or HTC with software around the OS and hardware)
From a public standpoint, WinMo has suicided its mindshare. This doesn't mean WinMo is technically worthless...but rather it's not in the spotlight.
i cannot believe some of you people actually prefer WM over Webos or the IPhone's OS.
i switched from a IPhone 3G to a TMO Tp2 wednesday(8/12) when it came out. i believe everything i read on here that WM is not that bad. now i know you all either have your head so deep in the sand you have no idea what other OS's are capable of or your not willing to admit it.
Opera 9.5 is good. but the scrolling is erratic. this is probably a product of Resistive touchscreens. so it's hard to fault the OS here. but even the built in IE has nicer scrolling (to me at least)
Random slow downs, in a call no less having Touchflo slow down to the point that the person you are sending a text to gets the text, AND replies to you before the OS even confirms the message was sent is insane.
lack of software, i know WM has more applications then any other phone OS. but where do i find them all? google works. but i spend hours searching for something decent. much less free. and then i have my personal information spread out all over the place on the web. great.
don't get me wrong. i LOVE the hardware on the Tp2. the keyboard is fantastic, the screen looks amazing and the battery life rocks. but WTF is going on with the software? i've spent more time fighting with the OS to accomplish what i want in the last few days then i spent in the previous 15 months playing with an IPhone.
hopefully WM6.5 and cooked roms bring something decent to the table. because this is just a train wreck.
/rant
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
Well, screensize is a matter of personal preference. Millions of iphoners can attest to that.
I, personally, won't pass judgement on the Titan's screen until I see it in person.
Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend either waiting for Nokia devices or take a look at Samsung Focus S when it hits.
Although, I do agree that OEMS have been less than forthcoming with their cutting edge devices thus far. The Venue Pro could have been such an animal had it not had a myriad of issues early on.
Okbye.
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
I think the screen sizes between 3.5 and 4.0 are awesome :-D just the way I want the screens to be;-) still hoped for some dual core, but wp is designed especially for one type of processor, so It's probably therefore it is still singlecore
sent with love from me to you
domineus said:
yes because every single android device has monster specs and doesn't try to market to different audiences increasing share and permeability...
seriously this iteration is Microsoft and OEMs using different market points to create presence and alternatives
Dual core is next year, so either wait or not buy it...it's that simple
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Click to collapse
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
andrewkeith5 said:
Cut for size
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I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
Xodium said:
I just wanted to come to this thread and say: Amen, brotha.
You couldn't have explained it better.
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Thanks! You can probably tell that little rant has been brewing up for quite some time reading some of the posts on here!
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
mlococo said:
Am I the only one totally disappointed in the handsets that are coming out with Windows Phone 7.5? Who are they trying to sell the 3.x screens to? Munchkins? The screen size on the "new" HTC Titan is good but the rest of the specs on the screen are not. Look at the specs on the HTC Amaze and the Samsung Galaxy S II - THIS is what Windows Phone should be shipping on! Not this leftover crap from last years rejects. Hard to compete if you don't even try!
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Click to collapse
I sort of agree, but only a little. For WP7 to be successful, they need to push out some hardware that blows people away. Not necessarily in specs, but in design. The new Focus S or whatever it will be called is pretty impressive, but they need to stop developing behind the curve and start innovating on some hardware. Maybe that's MS's plan with Nokia and the newly signed HTC and Samsung contracts. I know that WP7 will outperform a dual-core Android with nothing more than a few generation past snapdragon, but why not throw in a dual-core anyway? My Focus is buttery smooth 99% of the time, but a dual-core and some extra RAM will speed up app loading immensely.
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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hey buddy, please correct your words...we didn't say that WP7 running on single core is slow,please get us right...the reason why we want dual-core is more future proof...
future proof,read it again...microsoft has disappointed me twice since I just love WP7 like you,1st is the HTC HD2 and it can't run a real or proper WP7 due to microsoft don't want to support it.Then,i went for Mozart just for wp7,and now Microsoft says that only one major update per year, therefore, I don't think mozart is up for the next update no new feature,secondary camera, gyroscope for better augmented reality, kinect integration&etc....
So, get us right,before you write man...everyone knows that WP7 is fast on single core,but no future proof...not everyone is rich a$$ and able to buy new mobile phone every year. We want something can last for at least 2 years.
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
Yes, WP7 has to catch up. Software isn't the only way they need to catch up. They need to catch up with device specs as well.
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release. The state of the OS had everything to do with that. It's one thing to be told something. It's another thing for people to see what it really performed like when they went in the store (and by performed, I'm not talking about raw speed).
Even now that Mango is out. So little apps are taking advantage of its new features that they need to really push for developers to get on the ball to updating their apps and supporting them. To a consumer trying devices out in a carrier store (only choice for a lot of them, since most of their friends don't have WP7 devices), a lot of Mango's changes seem purely cosmetic because of that. Microsoft haven't even updated most of their own apps on the marketplace for Mango...
N8ter said:
Specs > Design. If Nokia ships phones with Titan/Focus S specs they will not be able to attract the amount of conversions they need.
What Microsoft needs is conversions, not turnover.
Conversion: Android/iOS/WebOS/BB users switching to WP7.
Turn-Over: Us upgrading because we want more up-to-date handsets.
Android got where it is because it was able to convert a ton of Windows Mobile/BB/WebOS and even some iOS people to Android, not through turn-over.
Cute phones don't make those people come to WP7, when the internals are a year or more behind the competition. It's not just about power. Newer SoCs allow for LTE and faster HSPA+ data connections (this is why T-Mobile is using a Qualcomm instead of Exynos in their Galaxy S II). It allows for high-def Video Chatting. NFC. WiFi Direct. Bluetooth 3.0, etc.
Keep in mind, a lot of those features were on phones a year ago.
Microsoft's hardware specs have really held OEMs back. Part of the reason why Advertising for WP7 is so bad is cause the carriers and OEMs are really struggling to find a story to tell. The handsets, even if the design is nice, simply won't have that with the way Microsoft keeps the OEMs on that leash...
And with users come more and better dev support.
I've spend the better part of 3-4 days going through the app market and there's hardly any non-game apps worth installing (outside of some obvious ones, of course). Hardly any of them have been updated to Mango, and there are apps that I paid for which haven't been updated in ~6 months...
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Very true. My sentiments exactly.
Part of it is good: They've added a lot of integrated functionality that reduces the need to install 3rd party apps. Shazam is useless on WP7 for me, for example (just one example).
Part of it is Bad: There are a lot of good apps on other platforms that seem like they don't care, and apps that were released early on, like Twitter/Birdsong that seem to have fallen out of support. Maybe the dev of Birdsong made enough cash and don't feel the need to update the app anymore?
Board Express Pro hasn't updated their app in forever as well, and that's a $3 app.
IMO, if you don't plan on supporting your app in the marketplace, it shouldn't cost anything. I have tended to ignore paid apps (don't even consider them, and don't even look at them) now unless they're a reputable app from a reputable developer. I'll buy BeejiveIM if it comes to WP7, I'll buy TapaTalk if it comes to WP7. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy Birdsong or Board Express Pro.
My days paying for apps are numbered. It's the developers' fault, too.
I think a lot of Microsoft's initial goal was Conversion of non-smartphone users. I don't have anything to prove it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of Android's marketshare comes from mid/low range devices.
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
mlococo said:
The problem is Microsoft thinks that WP7 sales were slack because the handsets were too expensive. The reality is the handsets were a year (or more) out of date before they hit the shelves. They were pushing 3G phones with a series 1 CPU and no FFC in stores next to high end 4G phones with all the accessories. Now all we have are these puny low res screens on underpowered phones! Shameful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yes and the incredible spec'd devices that were on windows mobile were blockbusters in the market
Microsoft again will lose money if this is all about a specs war, and specs weren't the reason why android was (and is) successful. It's a part, but not the complete package.
Android is diverse enough to reach several different price points to be pawned and given away for pennies. In America, that's important. The only one that feels the need to compare the specs is a bunch of idiots like you and me to see who has the bigger e credit
And I bet anyone on xda devs has done that once
But guess what? We're a growing population, but we are still a blip in comparison to the mass consumer. Go on, ask anyone if spec's matter. To many the answer is possibly, but when a person is selling a phone, they don't say
Hi this phone has a 1.5 gig dual core qhd screen.
They dumb it down to make it sound nice. If you speak techie 24x7 selling a phone, not many sales occur. Again, its about the casual customer.
That said, looking at the price points for android devices that are priced and have similar hardware to windows phone, windows phone does provide a far greater out of box experience. That matters, and it is a large reason why many ditched windows mobile and palm in favor for the iphone flavor in 2007.
Windows Phone has to be popular, and that is a key deterrent in both apple and android's success. This year is the year of getting Windows on equal footing with Android and apple in competitive pricing. Next year is popularity, and ironically, a lot of users will be looking to renew their contracts in America...that matters too
In other words
wait or use a different phone if you're after specs...It's what I used to tell my customers all the time
munkeyphyst said:
N8tr,
Weren't you the one upset in an older thread that "all the apps are mango" and you couldn't use them because mango wasn't officially released yet... And now your upset that not enough apps are mango...
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I don't know about N8ter, but I complained before the official release, when Microsoft was pushing Mango updates into the marketplace, and their policy was that any app updated to Mango caused the NoDo version to be locked (no more updates allowed). We didn't know how long it would be until the official release, and we didn't know how many NoDo apps would be dead-ended in the interim.
But now Mango is officially out, and Microsoft has admitted that their policy was a bad idea and reversed it. So now everyone wins. People with Mango can get Mango apps, and people with NoDo can continue to receive updates (at least until their numbers are so few that it no longer makes sense).
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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I couldn't agree more, I think 16GB is plenty for almost all needs
MartyLK said:
I agree. Guess what's going to happen when iPhone 5 hits? Long lines and a sellout.
Guess what's going to happen when the second generation of WP7 phones hit? Short lines and overstock.
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because of the fact that all the iNaives out there don't know better. people need to stop holding Microsoft to a higher standard than google and apple. the iOS5 betas so far have been unstable on the iPhone4 when compared to mango, also apple may not even release the iPhone 5 but more of a rehash of the iPhone 4,I've seen ur trolling on pocketnow over the mango update and u are just plain wrong, ur just mad because mango doesn't include ur precious Google- integration.
N8ter said:
The 4G phones coming to AT&T are 14.4 Mbps HSPA+ devices. The Galaxy S II on AT&T is a 21 Mbps device. T-Mobile's Galaxy S II is a 42 Mbps device, I doubt the Radar 4G will be above 14.4 unless they use an SoC we don't anticipate. The Price of the phones didn't have anything to do with the slow uptake of WP7 on release.
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and this matters how? at&t,tmobile and vz all have data caps, what good is 42mbps when u can't even use them without being slowed or overcharged?
andrewkeith5 said:
What is this ridiculous obsession with 'power' and screen size?
I personally don't give a flying proverbial about anything with a screen size over 3.5", because it's just TOO BIG. It can't be used with one hand and frankly it's not necessary, I have a tablet for media and it does a MUCH better job.
And this ridiculous obsession with dual-core this and thousand-gigabyte that. When WP7 runs just as quickly on a 1GHz single core processor as Android runs on a 1.6GHz dual core, it just plain IS NOT NECESSARY. It's a PHONE for christs sakes. Hell Windows 7 can run on less power than that perfectly well.
And if you need 64 gigabytes of media on your phone, then you need to get yourself an actual media player. I don't know of anybody who actually NEEDS more than 8Gb of space on their phone - until WP7 I only ever had a 2Gb MicroSD.
Sorry, yes, it's my opinion, but frankly this specifications rubbish is getting out of hand. People don't buy Android because they know what it does - most people don't have a clue what Android is, they just know it's generally good and there's a stupid number of apps. They buy it because they're told to buy it by the salesman.
With the pace at which WP7 is catching up, with the right marketing it'll start to bring out significant followers. The key thing is getting devices out there and NOT letting operators/independents STOP stocking them. That needs people to want them - and a healthy budget for subsidy. Give a salesman more commission for a WP7 device than a theoretically 20-times better Android, and I can practically guarantee 90% of people that day will walk out with the WP7. And if WP7 doesn't need anywhere near the hardware expense, then there can be more budget for that if the OEMs play their cards right.
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Who are you to decide what screen size is good for me?
"IS NOT NECESSARY" - who gave you the right to decide what is necessary? Don't be a smartass