I was so looking forward to the TP2, & now that it's here, & I see the HD2 & its Snapdragon brethren (not to mention Tegra on the horizon), I'm not sure I can go through with buying a $300 (AT&T) phone that's still using that 528MHz Qualcomm chip.
I've gotta stick with AT&T because non other service can match my monthly payment right now ($50/mo for unlimited data & 200 txt), so my question is: what will be the next QWERTY slider that'll work on AT&T's 3G bands?
I saw PN's speculation last Friday - will this be it? Will AT&T carry any Android handsets that might fit the bill? I'm hoping that maybe I've missed something & there's a unit due for the holidays, but I'm starting to think that since I want that QWERTY action, I may have to just suck it up & go with the TP2....
You know, in another site, I asked why everyone was ragging on the new SE X2, while they thought the TP2 was so great, when in reality they are similar in processor, etc. The reply was basically that the X2 is a dinosaur, being released so much later than the TP2, so the X2 should be better, not the same. Well, I feel that ATT (and the others in the US) waited so long in releasing the Tilt2, that I feel like waiting, also, for in a couple of months, there will be something better down the road. My Omnia is still working fine, and I can wait for a hard KB and 3G for a little while (But only for a little while) Give us a WOW!!! machine, ATT
Like many of you, I have been a loyal HTC customer since 2004 when I bought my first HTC product. I have been buying at least one new HTC product each year since then. However, beginning two or so year ago, HTC stopped selling unlocked phones with 3G Radios which worked in Europe and the U.S.
For example, a few years ago when the HTC TyTN came out, we U.S. customers could pay a bit of a premium and buy an unlocked HTC TyTN which had 3G radios which worked in the U.S. and Europe before the the HTC TyTN variant (Cingular 8525) officially came to the U.S. many months later. The same was true of the HTC TyTN II (AT&T Tilt or 8925).
Beginning with the HTC Rafael (AT&T Fuze) a couple years ago, the unlocked phones offered directly from HTC had no 3G radios for the U.S. Next, the HTC HD Blackstone and then the HTC Touch Pro 2 were offered unlocked, but without radios that could work on U.S. 3G networks.
This makes me very angry for several reasons. First, AT&T is undoubtedly the best GSM carrier stateside in terms of 3G coverage. (Hopefully T-Mobile will catch up someday). All U.S. customers (if they want 3G) have to wait for months to get the hot stuff. By the time the new device arrives, it's old news and out of date (the HTC Tilt 2 for example). AT&T will undoubtedly receive all the good stuff last because of its exclusivity with the I-Phone which makes all the other manufacturers want to release their new stuff elsewhere first. (I don't blame them for this.).
Secondly, AT&T's branding is absolutely atrocious. I'd like to get my hands on the idiot at AT&T who keeps screwing up perfectly good QWERTY keyboards with AT&T idiotic silver keys and insane layouts. The silver wears off and makes the keys hard to see in bright light. The layout is insane because they change the masterful HTC layouts and have even changed patters from their previous keyboards. The caps and function keys have been switched. Whoever is in charge of keyboard layout should be fired and not allowed to work in the industry again.
Business people who live in Europe and travel to the U.S. should be equally upset. Their expensive unlocked HTC products won't pick up a U.S. 3G signal.
Am I the only one who doesn't like this trend? I think not. We all need to band together and push HTC to putting a bunch of 3G radios in its products. Personally, I'd like to see some unlocked products which had the following 3G bands - 850/900/1700/1900/2100. Or what about 850/1700/1900/2100 so that it could be used on either AT&T or T-Mobile in the States and also in Europe? No, they cannot do that, the carriers would have to actually compete on quality of service and price rather than on what phone they have.
I suspect that the hardware is not a limitation. If it is the limitation, the manufacturers could make plug in modules that could go from one frequency set to another. I bet that the reason the radios are limited is due to the totally anti-competitive practices of the U.S. carriers.
This is total B.S. Every single HTC customer who travels between the U.S. and Europe should complain to HTC about this. Can we get some kind of joint letter, etc, going?
I'd be interested to hear all responses. I'm frankly fed up.
I'm personally pretty frustrated with this issue. AT&T really f*cks up their keyboards, and adds so much crap to their devices. I'd have thrown my Tilt and Tilt2 out the window if I hadn't learned about cooked ROMs. The keyboard is the absolute worst, though. Whoever at AT&T decides to ruin the otherwise great keyboards on the unlocked devices needs to be shot. And as you said, they decided to change the CAPS and FN key positions, after I already learned to type the opposite way for two years.
However, the antenna hardware is a limitation, in a sense. Meaning, you can't enable the US 3G bands on an unlocked device if they internal hardware antenna doesn't support it. In a podcast with Mobility Digest, one the legendary producers of HardSPL (Olipro) said that he's hacked radios and SPLs to allow all the frequencies to be utilized, and there was no signal, because the antenna hardware was not able to pick up the frequencies.
I think the real problem is the carriers. AT&T doesn't want people to buy an unlocked AT&T compatible phone that I can use without an expensive data plan that I'm locked into for 2 years. They also don't want me to buy a phone that also supports T-Mobile, so I can decide I don't like AT&T and take my phone with me, 3G coverage and all. So what AT&T does is pressure HTC not to release an unlocked version with their 3G frequencies supported. You're absolutely right when you say that quality of service should be the deciding factor in a network, not the phones they sell.
I went through and other frustrations with HTC and at one point I swore I'd never buy another HTC phone again. Then I went and bought an iPhone. Problem is, while the iPhone is a pretty sweet phone, AT&T is still the same scumbag company regardless of what phone you own and Apple is even WORSE than HTC. Unless you jailbreak the iPhone, you can't do anything interesting with it and you're totally at the mercy of Apple and AT&T as far as apps and what you can do with them. Take Slingplayer, for example. It works over wifi, period. I can get it to work over 3G if I jailbreak the phone and install a utility that makes it think it's using wifi, but how much longer is jailbreaking going to be available? Apple is going to great lengths to put an end to jailbreaking thought patching the exploits that allow it to work and legally by trying to make it illegal to jailbreak it. You can't use your own sounds for message notification, you can't customize the screen, you can't do a lot of things. So Apple and AT&T take a nice phone and totally f**k it up. And that's why I'm back to using an HTC phone. In the grand scheme of things, HTC and Microsoft are, by a wide margin, the lesser of the two evils when put against Apple and AT&T.
I understand that HTC has limited the hardware so that even with the right software, the phones won't pick up frequencies for which they don't have hardware or antennas. It cannot be a big deal.
Always the optimist, I believe that if everyone who used this forum wrote HTC a letter demanding that they start putting the hardware in their phones to operate on multiple 3G networks, something positive might happen.
HTC has it in their power to make and sell unlocked phones. Five years ago, you never saw HTC's name on the phones. It was always, Cingular, T-Mobile, Siemens, Audiovox, etc. Now you see HTC doing direct advertising in the U.S. However, I don't think it will have any effect. The ignorant masses are so I-Phone crazy. The name HTC doesn't mean thing to them.
Soon that I-Phone will be sold on all the U.S. networks. HTC could advertise directly and sell tons of phones if the phones were unlocked and worked on multiple 3G networks. This is one of the principles of "Net Neutrality". People hate to be tied to any certain network. This idea of locking the customer into a two year contact to get a stinking phone is outrageous. Sure, the initial outlay for the phone is small, but the carrier more than makes it back with high than needed data connection fees. In the end, the consumer gets the shaft.
If HTC offered an unlocked phones with U.S. & Europe 3G, I'd buy a new one every few months if the phones were any good. I want an HTC HD2 right now. I'd also like to try an HTC Hero in a GSM 3G too. But I'll have to wait several months and hope my carrier gets it.
Let's not sit back and let this sorry situation continue. Let's spread the word and go after the HTC and get the message out there.
I'm not Dissatisfied with htc in regards to travel. But I am Dissatisfied with htc in regards to OS Updates. I dont think that HTC should allow the updates to be Choosen by the carrieer.
Example: HTC Touch Pro some carrieers are updateing to 6.5 and others are not.. and what pisses me off is HTC Touch Pro was designed for 7 then MS decided to push the release date back. so ALL Touch Pros should get the 6.5 update and when 7 comes out they should also get the 7 update aswell..
I'm so tired of this.. yes XDA is a good place to go for the updates but I should not have to rely on xda to give me the update.
I sware my next phone is going to be the apple iPhone.
radio stacks as far as I see it is not something htc are making a range of
they make one for each device and then make newer versions to tweek or fix issues with the first ones
the newest should in general be applied
about 3g frequencies diff between usa and the rest of the world is hardware differences not radio stack differences
Rudegar said:
radio stacks as far as I see it is not something htc are making a range of
they make one for each device and then make newer versions to tweek or fix issues with the first ones
the newest should in general be applied
about 3g frequencies diff between usa and the rest of the world is hardware differences not radio stack differences
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The radio software is not the problem. It's the hardware. The hardware is deliberately made so that it only works on certain networks. I'm sure that cost and design are not the problem.
HTC needs to get back to devices that are true 3G 'world' phones! They have already lost a lot of the business folks!! Bring on the petition!!!
Agreed
I totally share your frustration. Similarly, due to heavy use I tend to buy a new phone yearly, Starting with Cingular 8150. I have many times purchased the same phone more than once, since no new devices were available when I needed a new phone. I am completely frustrated with being part of the largest consumer market in the world, yet only getting the latest technology more than a year after the rest of this planet. HTC has already lost an opportunity, by failing to fully and effectively advertise its products to Joe public, who was dazzled with the Iphone when it was first released. The fact remains that when we watched these Iphone adds, none of us was ever impressed with these features since they have been available to us for a long time with our HTC phones.
Rambo, I would like to encourage you to make a petition, as few of us are able to articulate this issue as well as you can and I would invite everyone to sign it, as a consumer block numbering in the thousands we can have our voices heard.
galaxys said:
HTC needs to get back to devices that are true 3G 'world' phones! They have already lost a lot of the business folks!! Bring on the petition!!!
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petition? just dont buy their garbage!
i havnt bought another htc since the htc tytn, that is like 4 years ago?
my previous phones, Imate 6150, Imate 9500, Eten X800, Sony X1, Acer F900, and now Acer neotouch S200, just preorder Acer Liquid, and soon Sony X10. what does all these phones have in common? they all works on ATT USA 3G! HTC can take their junks and stick it u know where! haha
netnerd said:
petition? just dont buy their garbage!
i havnt bought another htc since the htc tytn, that is like 4 years ago?
my previous phones, Imate 6150, Imate 9500, Eten X800, Sony X1, Acer F900, and now Acer neotouch S200, just preorder Acer Liquid, and soon Sony X10. what does all these phones have in common? they all works on ATT USA 3G! HTC can take their junks and stick it u know where! haha
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The only reason to petition HTC is because their hardware is not junk. It's very high quality stuff. They just need to make a few important changes.
dont be a pushy! haha
be a man!
it' like eatting at resturant, you are not allow to eat until everyone is finished eatting! that is just a insult to USA users! i wouldnt be begging them to let you eat at the same time as every1 else. i go elsewhere! haha
Thanks for using the Roman 'U' / sarcasm
3G Radios
yep, fully agree. I buy a new phone per year, due to heavy usage, they are generally ready for the scrap heap. I live in USA, but have operations in EU, and Japan / South Korea and I only want one phone and one number, and push around large amounts of data. I have to have 2100 mghz for voice and data in Japan and Korea, 850/1900 in USA and while in EU, need the 1800/900 and now 2100 for 3G access there. As I said, I only want one device and one number to keep updated and ready.
Big pain that HTC and Nokia have decided not to blend the 3G radios in the same way we have quad band GSM services. The extra frequencies on the radios are minor costs, which I would gladly pay.
ATT also keeps HTC from adding the 3.5 mm audio out jack, due to their exclusive deal with Apple on the Iphone, which is ridiculous. These cheap little dongles are a pain to use and keep up with, since I use my tilt 2 as an MP3 player while flying, I have to keep up with another piece. I strongly prefer one device to have to carry chargers for while traveling, so my phone is my MP3 player, email device, voice device, and mobile gps device. I want ONE DEVICE that works everywhere and not be dependant on AT&T to decide what and when I will get what.
HTC has to be tied to these carriers by some contract or agreement and is likely lacking marketing infastructure to take their phones to market globally and feel some ties to these major carriers. Otherwise it makes no sense to cripple these new devices as they are doing.
My 3 cents worth.
MWS
ms0529 said:
Big pain that HTC and Nokia have decided not to blend the 3G radios in the same way we have quad band GSM services. The extra frequencies on the radios are minor costs, which I would gladly pay.
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sony ericsson, and acer have no problems including USA 3g and EU 2100umts on their phone! retarded htc just dont want to! it like watching the new movie New Moon, you not allow to watch it until 6 months later! do u still get excited about New Moon 6 months later while every1 else already watched it? and Samsung is starting to wake up too! their lastest phone Omina II got USA 3g and 2100umts! (900/1900/2100umts)
netnerd said:
sony ericsson, and acer have no problems including USA 3g and EU 2100umts on their phone! retarded htc just dont want to! it like watching the new movie New Moon, you not allow to watch it until 6 months later! do u still get excited about New Moon 6 months later while every1 else already watched it? and Samsung is starting to wake up too! their lastest phone Omina II got USA 3g and 2100umts! (900/1900/2100umts)
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i second that..asus p835 also have us3g band
HTC exists to sell phones and make money.
If they wanted to sell phones that aren't carrier locked, it would have to be at full retail price ($500-600) and as a result MUCH less people would buy it. Plus HTC would have to open their own stores and such, or sell it only online.
The other option is to sell it through a carrier, but when you do that you're at the carriers mercy. And american carriers are scumbags when it comes to that.
For example, when the rest of the world uses the higher frequency that allows more users on the same tower and better speeds. America is still stuck with using ancient towers on ****ty frequencies...because carriers like AT&T are too cheap to upgrade it.
At the end of the day what do you think matters more to HTC (as a business), you deciding not to buy another phone from them (which would cost them very little, if anything, as it would be the carrier that sustains the loss) or them losing a multi-million dollar contract.
Razorfold said:
HTC exists to sell phones and make money.
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so is any other cell phones makers. sony, acer, asus, and now samsung (with their latest omini II got USA 3G and 2100umts. you bought ATT iphone, you also get 2100umts, i believe LG Expo with 1G cpu also has usa 3g and 2100umts!
but if you bought a HTC garbage phone, it either 900/2100 or USA 3G only, no 2100umts !
update: maybe "garbage" is not the correct word, it' OLD JUNKS! but the time it get to usa, phone is already 6months old! would you want to see New moon in 6 months while every1 is watching it now? would you rather eat after every1 is finished eatting? you just eatting the left-over!
netnerd said:
so is any other cell phones makers. sony, acer, asus, and now samsung (with their latest omini II got USA 3G and 2100umts. you bought ATT iphone, you also get 2100umts, i believe LG Expo with 1G cpu also has usa 3g and 2100umts!
but if you bought a HTC garbage phone, it either 900/2100 or USA 3G only, no 2100umts !
update: maybe "garbage" is not the correct word, it' OLD JUNKS! but the time it get to usa, phone is already 6months old! would you want to see New moon in 6 months while every1 is watching it now? would you rather eat after every1 is finished eatting? you just eatting the left-over!
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What don't you understand about it not having anything to do with HTC?
HTC signs contracts with t-mobile, AT&T, verizon, sprint etc, which allows them to rebrand the phone and sell it ON THEIR SCHEDULE with the features/radios THEY WANT. As almost everyone in America is locked onto 2 year contracts, most will be unwilling to buy to a new phone at full retail price until their contract is over. Hence carriers will wait to stock up on new phones till a time when the majority of their subscribers will be nearing their time to upgrade.
This CAN affect their other phones as well, just depends on whats written on those contracts.
AT&T doesn't want you buying a phone and switching over to t-mobile. So they lock out the t-mobile 3G frequencies.
T-mobile doesn't want you buying a phone and switching over to AT&T. So they lock out the AT&T frequencies.
Verizon/Sprint, don't want you buying a global phone and switching to T-mobile/AT&T, so they lock out both those bands.
If carriers aren't giving a certain phone the 2100 frequency, it's probably because they sell a similar more expensive phone that is "global ready" and want you to buy that instead if you travel. (Like for example, the ATT touch diamond doesn't have the 2100 band. The ATT Touch Pro 2 DOES)
Sony Ericcson, and Acer don't sell their phones in America through a carrier so naturally they don't have to lock out the radios and can do whatever the hell they want.
What is so hard to get about this?
Yes HTC can make a new contract, but I highly doubt carriers will sign it.
And btw I wouldn't want to see new moon, because it's gotta be the worst movie ever and nor am I a 13 year old girl with no common sense.
Razorfold said:
AT&T doesn't want you buying a phone and switching over to t-mobile. So they lock out the t-mobile 3G frequencies.
T-mobile doesn't want you buying a phone and switching over to AT&T. So they lock out the AT&T frequencies.
Verizon/Sprint, don't want you buying a global phone and switching to T-mobile/AT&T, so they lock out both those bands.
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i dont want a ATT or Tmobile branded htc old junk! i'm talking about HTC unlocked phone that they purposely left out USA 3G on it!
I currently have the Touch Cruise. I like... I like it a lot actually but my job is starting to grow me out of this phone (memory size, etc...)
I look specifically for HTC phones because:
1: Winmo... it's very flexible and there's apps out there for pretty much everything
2: unbranded HTC means I pay $15 for the same internet connection as those who pay $30. save myself $15 a month x, say.... 24 months or even 36, that's big money saved.
so what are you sporting?
I would be rocking a tilt 2, but my blueangel decided to disappear on me right when the pure came out, so I ended up with that. My recommendation is definately the tilt 2 for winmo, although blueangel's are great except for lack of 3g and camera. found mine btw
Well I just bought a Tilt 2 (and this is my first ever smartphone) and so far I love it. I have played around with the iPhone...but I am an avid hater for anything MAC or connected to Steve Jobs. I am still learning the Tilt and really don't have any complaints.
Sucessors the N1?
I'm also on AT&T, and I'd like to know if anyone can suggest an upgrade from the Nexus One for AFEE&FEE's 3g bands. As the OP put it, I enjoy spending $15 for internet as opposed to $30+ for the same product.
A) I prefer Android over WinMo but will give it a chance if the device seems compelling (my last Winmo was the Fuze)...but I dont want to be deadended at 6.5. I've had two Symbian S60s, 4 WinMos, 2 N1s, and an iPhone 3g. Are the Maemo devices from Nokia any fun?
B) I don't "despise" Apple or the iPhone 4g/HD/whatev but the microsim and buggering on price will be a dealbreaker if I can't find/make an adapter to fit all my other phones. IMEI/rate plan swaps are a pain.
C) I don't care for the AT&T android offerings and see them as a BIG step down from the N1. I want something with specs/hardware like the Incredible or EVO 4g (I know about the 3g/4g network difference...I mean features). Hardware keyboard isn't a dealbreaker either way.
D) I prefer carrier unlocked phones. My last phone was a nokia N85, which sets the gold standard to me for feature phones. I have no qualms paying the premium for a quality, TOTALLY MINE device. I actually prefer it over being stuck in contract. Plus the more "exotic" the phone, the less likely I am to get an AT&T nastygram text saying "You're now on our gigabuck smartphone unlim plan, YOU'RE WELCOME, SUCKA"
In summation-
Feature set >Nexus One, on AT&T's 3g bands, cost isnt a factor up front. Thanks for reading, thank you very much for replying.
Go for the Nexus One. You can buy it from Google. It's better than the Iphone, and as free and customizable as WinMo, without the downside of, well, everything.
Not sayin' I hate WinMo, it's just I hate it. It's slow, it's crummy, it's ugly. Android is by far the most superior mobile operating system out there.
If you don't want to spend the money for the Nexus One, just wait a couple months till more Android phones come out. Just know AT&T is locking down alot of their carrier-sold Android phones. Search long enough on the webz and you'll find a way to break 'em free, but why do that when the Nexus One is just there for the taking?
autonomous-inc said:
Go for the Nexus One. You can buy it from Google. It's better than the Iphone, and as free and customizable as WinMo, without the downside of, well, everything.
Not sayin' I hate WinMo, it's just I hate it. It's slow, it's crummy, it's ugly. Android is by far the most superior mobile operating system out there.
If you don't want to spend the money for the Nexus One, just wait a couple months till more Android phones come out. Just know AT&T is locking down alot of their carrier-sold Android phones. Search long enough on the webz and you'll find a way to break 'em free, but why do that when the Nexus One is just there for the taking?
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I have 2 N1s. AWS (early adopter syndrome and now the 850 edition. I'm asking after the N1, what's on the horizon to upgrade to? The CDMA carriers are all getting newer androids, but I notice a lack of anything droolworthy to replace my current N1.
I'd say get the Tilt 2. It's by far my favorite phone I've had from AT&T so far.
doejohn531 said:
I'd say get the Tilt 2. It's by far my favorite phone I've had from AT&T so far.
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Im looking for a phone with specs superior to the nexus. And not in the at&t system.
For recent WM that fully support AT&T's 850 & 1900 3G, there are Tilt2, D2, and Sony X1a. I currently stick with my X1a because:
1. Tilt2 is nice with big screen but Widcomm BT stack has a lot of problem with A2DP (e.g. system volume not working). And XDA's TMC project does not support it.
2. D2 has way too few hardware buttons compare to X1, and missing 3.5mm audio jack too.
3. X1a is not sold under AT&T (so it's pricey), so AT&T has no way to figure out your device type by IMEI (even I didn't have issue with my $20 medianet plan with Tilt 1 for years).
jackleung said:
For recent WM that fully support AT&T's 850 & 1900 3G, there are Tilt2, D2, and Sony X1a. I currently stick with my X1a because:
1. Tilt2 is nice with big screen but Widcomm BT stack has a lot of problem with A2DP (e.g. system volume not working). And XDA's TMC project does not support it.
2. D2 has way too few hardware buttons compare to X1, and missing 3.5mm audio jack too.
3. X1a is not sold under AT&T (so it's pricey), so AT&T has no way to figure out your device type by IMEI (even I didn't have issue with my $20 medianet plan with Tilt 1 for years).
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Don't forget X2a which is now available in the States
Telstra HD2
I think if you require Win-Mo with Nexus One specifications... then the HD2 from Telstra is about your only option. That would enable 3G (850mhz) and give you an IMEI not within AT&T's system!
i'm trying to avoid an AT&T IMEI phone or worse: their bloatware!!!
i mean, i can always bring it to a place that can change the... **** so it doesn't show up on the sweep.
but the bloatware annoys me more.
get a nexus one!
glitzbd said:
I think if you require Win-Mo with Nexus One specifications... then the HD2 from Telstra is about your only option. That would enable 3G (850mhz) and give you an IMEI not within AT&T's system!
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This.
If you are looking for the almighty Harbinger of Windows Mobile, the one device that shows all the other pretenders that HTC is a force to be reckoned with, the HD2 is currently that device.
The Telstra HD2 T9193 works perfectly with AT&T 850MHz HSDPA. I get a solid H signal all day long. If your heart is set on Windows Mobile and performance, it is the only phone to consider.
Its only weakness is its exorbitant, extraterrestrial price. But you pay for the best.
FTR the Nexus One has comparable hardware but:
1. It's not Windows Mobile
2. The Nexus One's screen loses in both size and effective resolution (but wins in brightness and contrast)
3. The Nexus One has 64MB less hardware RAM
4. T-Mobile Nexus Ones have already had their IMEIs compromised and are automatically provisioned $30 smartphone data on AT&T. It's quite possible that AT&T Nexus Ones will not be able to stay under AT&T's radar for very long, so good luck holding on to the $15 unlimited plan for the long-term.
from what ive learned with att is that it dont really matter what phone you have if you use it on there system it will identify the type of phone (smart phone, average cell what ever it is) seeing how my family has had att sence bag phones was the newest thing out there and ive used a few phone that att dosent offer or sell and everytime ive tried to do it with out adding the data package and within a day ive recived a txt saying to use this phone you need to add a data package and att dosent really care what phone you have aslong as your bill is paided
get out of att get the evo... thats what you should do
lui22 said:
get out of att get the evo... thats what you should do
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OP wants WinMo.
OP wants to pay $15/month for data.
Android + $40/month data? You serious?
igotit989 said:
from what ive learned with att is that it dont really matter what phone you have if you use it on there system it will identify the type of phone (smart phone, average cell what ever it is) seeing how my family has had att sence bag phones was the newest thing out there and ive used a few phone that att dosent offer or sell and everytime ive tried to do it with out adding the data package and within a day ive recived a txt saying to use this phone you need to add a data package and att dosent really care what phone you have aslong as your bill is paided
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I wasn't caught on my Motorola Milestone (Telus version with 850/1900 HSDPA) or my current HD2. I'm still using a dumbphone plan.