Related
I've used WM since the first SPV and have upgraded every year since. In the last 12 months I've had a Touch, Touch Diamond and now an HD. I also have an Ipod Touch.
As a die hard WM fan I'm wishing I had upgraded to the Iphone. WM is just so outdated and the UI is just so drab in comparison.
There are so many more apps available now fro iphone/ipod touch, They look better and often work better. With a new Iphone model out this year which is rumoured to run aps in the background and will you be tempted away from WM?
mwatson said:
I've used WM since the first SPV and have upgraded every year since. In the last 12 months I've had a Touch, Touch Diamond and now an HD. I also have an Ipod Touch.
As a die hard WM fan I'm wishing I had upgraded to the Iphone. WM is just so outdated and the UI is just so drab in comparison.
There are so many more apps available now fro iphone/ipod touch, They look better and often work better. With a new Iphone model out this year which is rumoured to run aps in the background and will you be tempted away from WM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No way!
I´m aware that MS UI is not as good as should be, but the only idea of getting a "control" Iphone instead of choosing among hundreds of WM devices scares me
I´ll stick to MS with all it´s imperfections...I have hope that wm7 can be something really good.
Just my opinion.
i have had all sorts of devices and i have to say wm is where i will stay. i think that the ui is great actually. and i am sure that wm still has more apps
i dont really care about aesthetics as long as it does the job. which it does
I Love the variety of windows mobile devices and it's just what it's suppose to be a mini PC in the palm of my hand. And WM can do so much more than iphone so yep my next device will be WM
The first criterion for my mobile phone is that it is WinMo.
The second is that it has GPS.
Everything else after that is just icing the cake.
My phone is a mobile first, sat-nav second, stock-tracking PDA third. Why carry three devices when one will do it all?
The iPhone won't run my work stock-track application so it has to be WinMo.
I really want a pocket computer/phone, with a real os like Win XP or OSX that is just like on a desktop or laptop, but I haven't seen one yet, and I'm poor and will not be able to afford one when they come out! haha
But, I will be sticking with my windows mobile pda phones for now. It's the closest to what I need at the moment. Phone, email, spreadsheets, and pdf are my main needs, with gps/mapping close behind that. And from what I see, none of the other phones quite do what I want, except Palm Powered devices, but WM is more customizable, and looks better, so it wins out for me.
The only reason I would switch to an iPhone would be if it's OS can run Skyscape Applications. Otherwise, WM is just perfect for my needs.
WM
I still think WM is the best platform for overall usability and power. With WM 6.5 the UI has been simplified for easy access to important applications. Over all GUI looks a bit smoother. Can't wait to update my Treo 750 to WM 6.5.
Sadly (commercial) developement on WM has dried up. No one takes the platform seriously anymore, and yes I am jealous of the iphones many apps and better polished apps (eg compare facebook and last fm clients). Even basic things such as emails and sms messages look better on iphone.
I am very tempted to jump ship after owning a dozen different WM phones (am using HD at moment) but one thing stops me, freedom. I HATE itunes and dont want to surrender my media to it. I like copy and paste and use it all the time, I love BT file transfer, I love A2DP. iPhone is too controlled. If Apple ease up a bit then maybe id give them a try, but for now I will stick with my HD (hopefully WM 6.5 finds its way to it) for a long time. Unless I start to see some more polish from MS and some freedom from Apple, the HD will last me a long long time
darthbane2k said:
Sadly (commercial) developement on WM has dried up. No one takes the platform seriously anymore, and yes I am jealous of the iphones many apps and better polished apps (eg compare facebook and last fm clients). Even basic things such as emails and sms messages look better on iphone.
I am very tempted to jump ship after owning a dozen different WM phones (am using HD at moment) but one thing stops me, freedom. I HATE itunes and dont want to surrender my media to it. I like copy and paste and use it all the time, I love BT file transfer, I love A2DP. iPhone is too controlled. If Apple ease up a bit then maybe id give them a try, but for now I will stick with my HD (hopefully WM 6.5 finds its way to it) for a long time. Unless I start to see some more polish from MS and some freedom from Apple, the HD will last me a long long time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not jailbreak the iphone? You can do more then. I've really enjoyed WM over the years. It hasn't really changed though since 2002! Not good is it? They really need to pull something impressive out the bag with WM7 to compete with the iphone.
I will never move away from WM now. I will also stay with HTC devices.......one reason is the fantastic support and apps available fom this site!!!
WM hands down! ive loved it since i got my first WM phone - The I-mate Jam which had WM5 on it right the way up until my Touch Diamond.
It is in every essence of the words a "pocket pc".
1. almost limitless customisation
2. abundance of apps and games
3. ability to have cooked ROM's
4. use it as a mobile/music&video player/camera/internet browser/GPS/gaming device/ dictation machine/personal organiser/office mobile/... the list goes on and on.
4. Freedom of choice unlike the iphone. which locks you down to using i(crappy)tunes to put any content on it.
I've become quite a fan of Windows Mobile (as many may know by my tweets). I had a very long history of the PalmOS (a small taste of Blackberry) before I jumped and I've never looked back even though I was concerned at the time.
If you really listen to the Microsoft vision (See Balmer's keynote for CES for example), they really have the best overall picture of how to take mobile smartphones to the next level. Also due to them being Microsoft, they have the best leverage to achieve that vision with the vast array of products they produce. This is where Android and Blackberry (and Pre) fail, no leverage of interoperability.
Now onto the iPhone. I have such a love/hate for Apple. They make beautiful (overpriced) products on the surface but when you dig deeper they are quite lacking for the money. The iPod clearly lacks features of many MP3 players (FM, Bluetooth, etc), the iPhone does this as well. The major flaw is the current OS they've released does not allow multiple apps to run, this is why simple features like cut-and-paste are missing. As a WinMob user, this is essential to have a solid smartphone OS.
My biggest hate for Apple throughout the 80s to now is the lock-in philosophy. Apple simply has control freak mentality in its culture. You have to buy everything in their stores (jailbreaking is illegal), the hardware has to be created by us, the software needs to be approved by us, etc. They really are the Anti to the Open Source philosophy. They really make Microsoft look like saints to the open source world.
So the question was whether my next device will be WM? I'm not sure. I just got the Samsung Saga i770 back in December so it will likely be at least a year before I switch phones again. By then version 6.5 will be out and until I actually play with the Honeycomb interface, I'm not exactly warm on the Zune-like UI. I have a Zune (I won) and don't really care for the UI. If I can keep the Today screen and customize it with 3rd party apps like I do today then I'd be cool in that area. That said, I try to keep an open mind and I'm not opposed to switching but I don't see Apple changing its philosophy anytime soon, RIM has improved but I'm still not sold, so I guess Android and the Palm Pre may be those options.
I also kind of like the concept of a watch phone if it was waterproof and could tether to any device around me which would free us from always carrying a specific form factor (sometimes you may want a pda, a netbook, tablet, a laptop or carry nothing).
--Mark
twitter.com/manielse
I have been thinking about this a lot - I might switch to a palm pre if the feedback is good from early adopters or might want to see what the next generation of android devices are like.
My next device will PROBABLY be WM, but I can't make a guarantee on that.
I love WM's flexibility, customizeability, and power, but I loathe its sluggishness, blandness, and lack of fun/stylish/interesting apps.
Hopefully, MS launching an official app store will help with the last part. Unfortunately, I think the iPhone still has a big advantage here, since devs only have a single resolution and configuration to program for so they can make more "controlled" apps. I'm hoping MS helps on this by encouraging fullscreen WVGA development for 6.5 / 7.
If Android had actually been what I'd hoped (a mobile frontend to Google's whole web ecosystem, including integrated apps and picasa support), I'd probably be aching to jump ships. We'll see how both Android and WM develop in the next year or so before I get ready to make any switches.
WM is to stay with me (I mean HTC, because of the XDA-developers) for a long time
Cheers
Hmm. Well I am with Verizon and always get a new phone with NE2 deal. At the end of the year I get the deal. I won't ever switch to another carrier so as much as I like what I see in Palm Pre, I will not get it. Nor will I get an iphone for the same reason (and even more because you have to jail break it to get it working) or G1. Anyway, I think I will just wait until 2010 to get a new phone. I really wish WM7 was released sometime in 2010 because I know for sure I would wait to get it. But anyway, right now I am loving my XV6800 I got last year and will not give it up anytime soon.
I think what I might do is get an Ipod Touch HD (hoping Apple finally releases a widescreen version and higher res) when it ever releases. This way I will not miss out on all the cool apps (well the free ones at least). I connected one to my phone which was fun and will definetly do that if I get one.
I love Windows Mobile (so flexable, love tweaking it, all the apps, xda! and hope WM7 is released sooner then later. I might upgrade my XV6800 to WM6.5 but either way I hope to continue to be on Windows Mobile and my next phone will hopfully be a WM7 phone.
palm pre for me
How many phones are knobbled when it comes to trying to write a program to run on it. WM will take a fair amount of effort to learn how to do it, but it can be done. .NET for starters or Win32 C++ if you want to take a look round the engine room. Embedded C++ 3.0 and 4.0 are still available gratis from Microsoft's Web site. .NET requires Visual studio, but not the gratis versions. Not quite as wizzo as the finger flicking Touch interfaces, but what the hell. Have a go and see what you can come up with.
I know you guys probably heard this a thousand times (and a forum search shows this) and what I'm about to say is probably very cliche, but the iPhone is a pretty amazing device.
Typically, I am a WM man (I currently own an HTC Touch Pro), and I've owned WM phones/devices for a long time now. I tried other OSes (Symbian, Palm OS), but ultimately, I prefer WM. When the iPhone first appeared, I disregarded it almost entirely because it's made by Apple. As someone familiar with Apple, I just didn't like them very much (largely due to their design philosophy).
Things didn't look like they were about to change. In fact, the next phones I was seriously looking at was the Toshiba TG01, Samsung Omnia HD i9810, and Samsung Omnia Pro B7610. Two of these are Windows Mobile and one is Symbian (which I was less likely to get anyway). The only major difference is that they aren't HTC (I want to move away from HTC because I exceedingly dislike Qualcomm).
However, something special happened yesterday: My friend invited me to lunch and he showed me his new iPhone 3GS. He allowed me to play with it.
In one word: Incredible!
As my intuition knew, I ended up not liking the design of the OS (I still prefer WM's design), but I couldn't really deny how well made the iPhone really is. More than anything else, I really have to compliment how extremely optimized it really is. Opening any software, going to the home screen, playing movies/music, and doing just about anything really was incredibly smooth. The entire time I was with my friend, I just gushed and gushed about this one aspect. The reason why is because it really is incredible how fast everything was.
The truth is that when compared side to side with my Touch Pro, the speed is really the same. However, a few things to note. First, everyone know how the iPhone seems to use "gradual transitions"? To elaborate, whenever you do anything, such as opening software or rotation, it is done in real time, and you can see the changes with your eyes. This is as opposed to WM where it is done immediately (for example, rotating with my TP results in an immediate change as opposed to you seeing the screen rotate on the iPhone).
This seems like a minor thing, but it has a large effect on perception. Notably, it makes you perceive it as being faster. When I counted down the seconds on the iPhone and WM, I noticed that opening programs and rotation are really done at the same speed, but the iPhone's gradual transition effects makes you perceive it as being faster, which is actually pretty nice.
Second thing and a very important point: My TP uses a custom ROM, which is why its speed was on par with that of the iPhone. If it had been using the stock ROM, I am positive that the iPhone would have crushed it in speed.
This seems like a moot point because I *can* use custom ROMs, but note that this forum and all of its custom ROMs are largely exclusive to HTC phones (with the sole exception of the Xperia...which was made by HTC anyway). What happens if I decide to use another WM phone (for example, the Samsung B7610)? Then I would have no choice but to remain with the stock ROM or at least hope someone would develop the stray ROM for the Samsung devices (such as the i900 on XDA).
At this point, I'm also willing to blame the speed issue on hardware. After all, the iPhone is about 72MHZ faster than my phone, and it also also has a dedicated graphics chip. On the other hand, I also have to take into consideration that it takes a custom, optimized ROM for my device to keep up with the stock ROM on a series of device which is notorious for being outdated (anyone remember the iPhone 2G)?
If anyone is wondering, am I thinking about switching to the dark side? Unfortunately, no. While the huge number of apps and the great speed is tantalizing, I am still the guy who frequently spends 4+ hours changing the ROMs on his phones (and tweaking it afterwards). I'm also the guy who frequently goes into the settings menu because he nitpicks about how each little thing on his phone works.
Can I switch to something that won't allow me that much customization? Speaking as someone who's about to change the ROM on his phone again, the answer appears to be a pretty clear 'no' as this point.
On, the other hand, while playing with the iPhone, I did find myself wishing that the Windows Mobile experience was as smooth, and great as with the iPhone, especially on stock ROMs. I also did find myself wondering what Windows Mobile 7 will be like (I can't wonder with WM6.5 because I'm using it now). But of course, what do people saying about wishing too much? It's useless.
Am I going mad?
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Apparently that's wrong.
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Screen went a nice mix of colours and it totally stopped working. Quite a few plug ins to the computer and it came back to life.
There just to fragile and to big(iphone is thicker than the touch also), good girls phone or if you carry a handbag.
Glade I got the Jade not a problem so far.
thedigitel said:
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that the AT&T contract you have to sign up for to get an iPhone? If that's the case, why not just buy the iPhone unlocked? It's expensive, but it cost about as much as any HTC phone I've seen.
charge1313 said:
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of right now, the iPhone has roughly 50K-60K of apps while the last article detailing how many apps Windows Mobile seems to have stopped at 20K. Futhermore, the iPhone famously beaten Windows Mobile in reaching 25K apps, and I find it highly unlikely that Windows Mobile caught up.
Even from an outside perspective, though, it seems to me that the iPhone has an impressive number of apps, including a plethora of ones that Windows Mobile never seems to get (or is even capable of getting).
stu-k said:
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
I entirely agree.
My wife has a Gen 1 iphone, and I recently updated it to version 3 and unlocked and jailbreaked.
In the old days, WM had thousands of apps as one of its killer features.
I recently spent a few evenings installing apps on the wife's phone, and I was blown away. Not necessarily by the quality, but by the experience.
Everything is smooth, everything works, the user experience is "unchallenging".
I love tweaking, I love coding, I love spending MONTHS dissecting the WinMob OS to implement a tiny hack. But you know what? Why bother?!
I can't see myself giving up on WinMob - it's got momentum, and I can't be bothered to learn Objective C. I'm barely coping with C++ as it is.
But, to paraphrase Gauntlet, "WinMob [may be] about to die".
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
But - the user experience is OLD.
And I think one of the most fundamental flaws is also one of the biggest strengths - WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware. But the problem:
WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware.
Some of those have graphic accelerators, some don't.
Some have dpads, some don't.
Some have 600mhz CPUs, some don't.
The iphone is a single homogeneous ecosystem.
Coders know they can anti-alias without trying to code to the lowest common denominator 200mhz phone with 16mb of ram. They know exactly what they're gonna get with an iphone. And that fact means they know the limitations, and how to pitch what they've got at the right performance considerations. They know what they're working on. The Human Interface spec is incredible, and incredibly helpful. Users expect an experience, naturally, because it feels natural. Apple encourages that, and coders have to honour it.
I think most of the iphone experience can and should be emulated on WinMob.
I'm not just talking about cloning Springboard and everything else. Yes, we can emulate this and that - our coders on XDA devs are incredible, and could do every bit of it.
But we need more: the experience of just being able to use the phone and expect it to work needs to be emulated.
I don't think the iphone is necessarily a better piece of hardware: I prefer my Touch HD. But clearly the user experience, the user interface paradigm, the reward of just being able to use the thing easily needs to be implemented - from the ground up.
I don't think this is going to happen on WinMob; I think the strength/limitations of a wide open platform means this probably can't happen. I think that like Win CE before it, WinMob will end up being relegated to a certain environment that has low expectations (eg Enterprise markets).
But if "Windows" devices are going to survive, I think the change has to happen at a much higher level. I can only hope that Pink or whatever is on the horizon for WinMob 7 is an integrated piece of hardware and user experience designed from the ground up to feel like it's the 21st century... using WinMob out of pity is going to get old, very very soon.
V
8525Smart said:
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to agree, I hate carry around two devices. Hence no longer use Ipod touch on the go, just leave it at home in docking station, which its good for.
Use the Jade for music and a phone which fits on my pocket.
I find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
vijay555 said:
I entirely agree.
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my God, yes, YES!
I can't count the number of times I had to defend WinMo against people who obviously never used it. The number of ridiculously comments I seen was ludicrous and often times seem as if the people saying it were just parroting common criticisms as opposed to their actual experience.
One guy I saw even suggested that receiving text/emails and switching between apps was impossible.
On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post too (as is the subject of my topic). I think you really hit the nail on the head: Windows Mobile's biggest strength, its availability on multiple phones, is also its biggest weakness.
As an owner of a Fuze, an HTC phone with an accelerometer, the lack of accelero-meter WinMo apps makes it very apparent.
I do agree with you that Microsoft needs to do something, at the very least, about the user experience, but I really don't see how it can be done. The iPhone is able to achieve this because it is a software available on one hardware designed by Apple themselves. In order for Microsoft to achieve the same quality of apps or user experience, they would have to design Windows Mobile to take advantage of a particular hardware specification.
As of currently, the best Microsoft can probably achieve is to design Windows Mobile with the best optimization they can while maintaining good compatibility and appearance with a wide number of hardware.
stu-k said:
HI find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be true, but to be fair, the Windows Mobile landscape isn't exactly clear of 'gimmicky' apps either. Some of them even inspired by iPhone equivalents.
HDWobble, anyone?
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
jim_0068 said:
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
poetryrocksalot said:
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
crazy talk said:
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh that's a shame... this app is useless then. I heard that Apple is considering the idea of having full support for background applications.
The problem is that:
1) Apple knows that not many people care about "background" applications.
2) Consumer common sense is distorted in that they don't understand the purpose of multi-task. They believe that multi-task is already on the iPhone because obviously, you can "exit the application into another application". This isn't the point, a true multitasking system requires A) background applications B) automation of background functions and C) the ability to switch tasks in the foreground of an application.
3) Apple knows that adding background applications will result in people complaining of slowness because 1) Alot of people still don't know what RAM is, not even my sister who is a 4+ year college student working on her masters and 2) Alot of people do not know how to manage a platform involving background applications and 3) average consumers would rather sacrifice functionality for ease-of-use.
I believe the emphasis of this multi-tasking is not a multi-tasking complaint. Idiots are prone to think that the iPhone already has multi-tasking; I've seem them argue about it. We need to add a mentality to people in which they learn that it isn't about multi-tasking, it's about background applications and how we need applications to function in the background.
Well the 3GS has double the ram and faster processor, hopefully they (third-parties) can find a way to make actual multi-tasking more plausible.
new beast in town
the android os is really taking shape and will soon be king. with so many different devices coming aboard this thing will be huge. the g1 now is awesome with just a little tweaking and those who don't want to tweak there are 2 more ota coming in the next 5 months.
nonzenze said:
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, very informative read, Thank you,
So the 3GS apparently has a superior CPU in more ways than one, which I'm not really surprised about. I did mentioned that I did not like HTC's choice of CPUs...which they're still using in their newest devices. Many other devices are already using the Cortex A8, so if it is the case that HTC is losing out due to the CPU, then that doesn't bode well for their future phones.
jim_0068 said:
To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, everything you said is true. A jailbroken iPhone is a very nice thing and probably does well for tinkerers. In fact, the 3GS that my friend let me used was jailbroken too.
However, truthfully, installing apps that lets me do new things wasn't what I was really referring to before. Instead, I was largely referring to the changing of ROMs/OS. I believe the iPhone has made some progress running Linux, but nothing else as far as I can see. WM Phone has so many different ROMs available and progress has been made on running Linux (including Android) too. This allows for much more customization, in my opinion as you get the benefit of software-based customization combined with ROM/OS-based.
Besides, it's pretty fun to be running Windows Mobile 6.5 while everyone else is still using Windows Mobile 6.1.
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
My opinion is that in order to be a solid competitor, Microsoft needs to limit the hardware choices for their platform. HTC does a great job at making devices for Windows Mobile. Microsoft needs to pair up with them to make their own phone. With the new Zune HD coming out featuring the nVidia Tegra chipset, it would make a wonderful platform to build the next generation WM phone from. The thing is, it should be the only phone featuring WM 7 Professsional. It will enable Microsoft to fine tune WM to use every bit of the phone's capabilities, leaving nothing to be desired. Much like they do with their PC OS's, there can be several versions of the main OS with steps in capabilities. Their Zune HD phone should be the candidate for WM7 Ultimate, which would feature smooth transitions and speed.
Edit: Just saw the post above mine. I need to read more!
vijay555 said:
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
8525Smart said:
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think the only company that can actually create a truly direct competitor to Apple and iPhone is Microsoft...it's the name and not the product.....
Apple had a bad rep back then and now they are doing good.
It seems like Microsoft is tagged after Apple jumped the boat to success.
We'll just have to wait for Microsoft to adopt Apple's precedent.
With Microsoft directly creating their own phone and not just an OS, we might actually get a true iPhone killer. Though Microsoft may have to revamp the entire OS and create their own line of OS totally unrelated to Windows Mobile.
iphone speed and scrolling is very impressing. is there anyway to speed up the touch pro to get such speeds ?
To be honest, I don't think the iPhone is as fast as it seems. Part of the loading time is masked in the animations it uses (like when you touch an icon, it takes a little bit of time to expand teh window). It's fast, but not as fast as everyone thinks it is.
But regardless, the touch pro probably won't be as fast and smooth as the iphone, but try flashing a custom rom like Energy rom. It's built to be really fast. And having WM 6.5 gives smoother scrolling (not as good as the iphone though).
FireGX said:
To be honest, I don't think the iPhone is as fast as it seems. Part of the loading time is masked in the animations it uses (like when you touch an icon, it takes a little bit of time to expand teh window). It's fast, but not as fast as everyone thinks it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but you still have to admire the research/QA/testing they went through to make the iPhone seem as fast as possible...
that saying, you won't get that with WM... WM, apps share memory/processing power(while in iPhone, only ONE app gets all the resources at a time, except the music player that Apple can optimize as best as possible)...
They are two different beasts, you won't get them to act exactly the same
That being said, I must admit that I am quite enjoying EnergyROM 3.0 "Warhawk" - It is the fastest and smoothest WM 6.5 Rom i've installed yet (not saying i've installed much else besides energyroms, but I am quite happy with it, and looking forward to what else he releases next for the Touch Pro
cool, i might try it out
I have juicy 8, but i might try enerygy
i cant stand juicys 8 start menu and how the scrolling is so limited and every single thing is in the start are scattered.
but the touchflo is quick ...
but i use mobile shell lol...
i hate the scrollin lags on this phone
i checked out my buddies iphone and almost considered the switch. if the iphone had a keyboard, i would have switched.
its just such a quick and smooth phone.
i think my phone runs faster than an iphone.. atleast faster than my ipod touch. Running NRG's Warhawk since Aug 11. and its still smooth as the day i flashed the rom!
I think your noticing the difference in scrolling because of the screens, capacitive vs resistive.
FireGX said:
To be honest, I don't think the iPhone is as fast as it seems. Part of the loading time is masked in the animations it uses (like when you touch an icon, it takes a little bit of time to expand teh window). It's fast, but not as fast as everyone thinks it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct. The iPhone uses a lot of neat tricks to to give the perception of speed and it absolutely works. However, make no mistake about it, the iPhone really is more powerful than WinMo phones.
Aside from the new 3GS using the Cortex A8 (which only the WinMo-based TG01 can match), the OSX Mobile can also utilized the newer tech in modern CPUs unlike Windows Mobile.
I have to agree with some others, though. As someone who tried the 3GS, the fastest WinMo can come is easily EnergyRom. It is probably the smoothest WinMo ROM I know of.
8525Smart said:
You are correct. The iPhone uses a lot of neat tricks to to give the perception of speed and it absolutely works. However, make no mistake about it, the iPhone really is more powerful than WinMo phones.
Aside from the new 3GS using the Cortex A8 (which only the WinMo-based TG01 can match), the OSX Mobile can also utilized the newer tech in modern CPUs unlike Windows Mobile.
I have to agree with some others, though. As someone who tried the 3GS, the fastest WinMo can come is easily EnergyRom. It is probably the smoothest WinMo ROM I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only the iPhone has an ap for this:
The iPhone was designed from the ground up to be a touch screen friendly device, which is why it works so well. As others have said a lot of software optimization adds to that speed. I just got my wife a 3GS and have been playing around with it. It slow's down if you push it too hard.
If Microsoft would actually do something new with Windows Mobile instead of upgrading code from WM5 or older versions our phones would easily out perform it with multiple apps running. Especially with the 1ghz chips and Nvidia processors coming.
I tried other ROMs but for me the stock ROM worked the best. With the HTC update it is much faster than ever before. Keeping your memory clear your phone can be just as good as the iPhone and better in many ways. There are a lot of things the Touch Pro can do that the iPhone never will thanks to how proprietary Apple is.
If only Microsoft would stop sitting on their hands and release a brand new OS and stop upgrading....
A lot of the UI in the iPhone is graphics accelerated, very much UNLIKE Windows Mobile. Additionally, because it uses Quartz Express, it's a heck of a lot more optimized than practically any UI available for Windows Mobile, including HTC TouchFLO 3D.
I sincerely hope that this is improved in Windows Mobile 7. It has a lot of potential to provide the same smoothness as Apple delivers right now. I picked up an iPhone 3G today, and it's silky SMOOTH, but not necessarily fast...
After having qtek s100, htc touch dual, htc touch,htc diamond and htc touch pro I've finally ordered an Iphone 3GS. I've been able to have it during 2 days and have to admit it is really smooth and beautiful ! It does exactly what you want no annoying bug etc...I'm fed up with WM. Too slow, too laggy. Hopefully some like NRG has managed to make it better !
10332007 said:
If Microsoft would actually do something new with Windows Mobile instead of upgrading code from WM5 or older versions our phones would easily out perform it with multiple apps running. Especially with the 1ghz chips and Nvidia processors coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the new WinMo7 I think, and really hope, that they are rewriting the code and not just upgrading. I am anxiously awaiting the release of WinMo7 to see if it comes up and kicks some iPhone butt!
I have both devices right now and the apples scrolling is better for sure but you have to remember that only one app can run at a time. Much more performance is given to the apple vs wm.
That being said I love the fact that I can actually MULTI TASK on Windows Mobile. Which is why I upgraded to this phone. Scrolling isnt a big issue for me I think its alright (using energy rom)
Well I have been using the latest energy ROM and it is by far the fastest Rom I have used. I'm not saying it is as fast as the iPhone's animations but the rom runs smoother and faster than any other Rom I have seen befor. I'm using the 6.5 Genesis ROM.
eddyg519 said:
I have both devices right now and the apples scrolling is better for sure but you have to remember that only one app can run at a time. Much more performance is given to the apple vs wm.
That being said I love the fact that I can actually MULTI TASK on Windows Mobile. Which is why I upgraded to this phone. Scrolling isnt a big issue for me I think its alright (using energy rom)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can Multi Task on Iphone thanks to Jailbreak......and don't tell me jailbreaking is not safe cause CID and HardSPL unlock + flashing with a new ROM is the same
flashmp3 said:
You can Multi Task on Iphone thanks to Jailbreak......and don't tell me jailbreaking is not safe cause CID and HardSPL unlock + flashing with a new ROM is the same
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just gonna say that. Even after jailbreaking and multi-tasking I still feel the iPhone is more responsive than any WM device.
But the iphones are really make explosions . Win mo don`t
I dunno.... have you ever tried turning on bluetooth, gps, and wifi at the same time? My fuze gets so hot you can't touch it, I've pulled the battery before just to cool it down.
Please Mods, I implore you, close this pointless thread!
Who give a %&$* which one you like, this site is to support HTC devices which run WinMo and Android OS.
Applechians please go waste Apples bandwidth with your pointless rhetoric.
Bruce Inman said:
Please Mods, I implore you, close this pointless thread!
Who give a %&$* which one you like, this site is to support HTC devices which run WinMo and Android OS.
Applechians please go waste Apples bandwidth with your pointless rhetoric.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
get a life
am between a TP2 and a Hero on sprint, i like how big the TP2 is but can i get the sense ui from the hero on it. or can i get android 2.1 running sense ui on it. don't really know much about the TP2 or Hero have been using a pre since release.
just want to know what i can do to a TP2 as apposed to a hero, and really like the look of the touch pro 2 but i'm not sure i'll like Windows mobile, even if it's with a cooked 6.5.5 rom.
any help would be awesome.
1st off, it is best to figure out, "what will I use this phone for".
Honestly, this is my take on the whole situation. If you want a phone that is "yours", there is no substitute for windows customizations. To really make it a phone that is yours though will require a couple days of research and a couple days of testing (cooked roms vs stock) to find out what you like best.
Android is going to be very easy to set up...basic touch icon menus and widgets for customization features. At the end of the day it will be a phone that works and has various multimedia features, but it won't be quite as "yours" as a winmo phone would be.
Both are great operating systems and it really boils down to what you want as a consumer.
*edit*
Forgot to mention beforehand, but if you are in an IT environment, WinMo's remote desktop and mobile office make a HUGE difference.
The Touch Pro 2 is great... check out this thread for a Sense UI... forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=604146 .
Good Luck!
david
Hello World,
I really don't understand why, but I know there are some people that want WP7 on their "old" devices like HD2 and that some great gurus on XDA are working hard to do it
Yet personally I just hate WP7 and I would like to know if the opposite initiative exists or would be possible : I would like to have good old WinMo 6.5 on newer hardware
I'd love to have something with at least 1 ghz horsepower like HD2, a big capacitive screen but also with a hardware keyboard like desire Z or HTC 7 pro ... running WinMo.
Do you know if there are some hacking attempts to make work wm 6.5 on new devices designed for wp7 or android ?
Cheers,
Nibbler.
Doubt it, WM is about the only OS versatile enough to launch a different OS altogether. I personally wouldnt touch 6.5 again with a 10 foot pole, I dont want to modify my phone for a week before it gains some functionality.
There are plenty of people, like myself, who would love to trade our HD2's for an HD7. Different strokes.
z33dev33l said:
Doubt it, WM is about the only OS versatile enough to launch a different OS altogether. I personally wouldnt touch 6.5 again with a 10 foot pole, I dont want to modify my phone for a week before it gains some functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you will find android is just as able to launch a diffrent os .... linux based os's like ubuntu can be easly launched from android
Linux on top of linux isnt that impressive... and linux itself is kinda a letdown as is. I mean I know that its capable of a bunch of cool additional features but just like android you have to tinker with it for forever before it's usable.
uberamd said:
There are plenty of people, like myself, who would love to trade our HD2's for an HD7. Different strokes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give it time and I'm sure there will be plenty of people you can swap with
Old?
LOL, it´s funny how now we are used to call "old" to a year old device
I prefer Leo because I can switch between Android and WM and soon with WP7 and that´s the freedom I want on a phone.
Doubt WP7 will have the option to load WM but if I´m wrong probably then and only then I should consider it.
I agree, I would love to have the "option" to put 6.5 on a WP7 phone...just gota figure out that flash card thing !
Just because every app for 6.5 is not available for WP7 yet and won't be for a long time, basic stuff like RDC is not there yet and I need it.
z33dev33l said:
Doubt it, WM is about the only OS versatile enough to launch a different OS altogether. I personally wouldnt touch 6.5 again with a 10 foot pole, I dont want to modify my phone for a week before it gains some functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you on both points : WM is the most versatile mobile OS ... and yes most of the time you have to tweak it a lot. Yet from my point of view, WM as a core and some graphical user friendly interface above like Sense gives to the user "the best of the two worlds" : a powerful and tweakable machine but also user friendly out of the box
orb3000 said:
Old?
LOL, it´s funny how now we are used to call "old" to a year old device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've also double quoted "Old" in my post
DavidinCT said:
I agree, I would love to have the "option" to put 6.5 on a WP7 phone...just gota figure out that flash card thing !
Just because every app for 6.5 is not available for WP7 yet and won't be for a long time, basic stuff like RDC is not there yet and I need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely
Now that I´ve tested WP7 on my leo I must confess I prefer Windows Mobile
Read my article tomorrow in the Portal to know more
Just to try to clarify my thought :
even if certainly difficult, would it be possible or totally unthinkable to "cross-flash" let's say a tweaked HD2 rom, with some touch pro 2 keyboard drivers cooked inside, over a HD7pro or Desire Z machine if the hardware between HD2 and HD7pro/Desire Z are quite similar ?
orb3000 said:
Now that I´ve tested WP7 on my leo I must confess I prefer Windows Mobile
Read my article tomorrow in the Portal to know more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also think WM is just 10000 better and more powerful than WP7
Personally I just don't understand why WP7 is making such a buzz ... and even inside the techno-geeks people community
What makes me sad it is not that m$ has made WP7 ... (if some people are willing to pay to have a uglier and not customizable OS with less features, it's after all their choice ) ... what makes me sad is that WM a much more capable and versatile OS is dying
orb3000 said:
Now that I´ve tested WP7 on my leo I must confess I prefer Windows Mobile
Read my article tomorrow in the Portal to know more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One day working with WP7 on a hacked device gives you a firm base to run a compare of the two? I don't think so mate, that would be poor journalism at best.
Lord.Nibbler said:
I also think WM is just 10000 better and more powerful than WP7
Personally I just don't understand why WP7 is making such a buzz ... and even inside the techno-geeks people community
What makes me sad it is not that m$ has made WP7 ... (if some people are willing to pay to have a uglier and not customizable OS with less features, it's after all their choice ) ... what makes me sad is that WM a much more capable and versatile OS is dying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh, I agree except the uglier part. People for the most part arent members of XDA developers. Who wants a phone that you have to tweak for days before it becomes something functional? Maybe an XDA member. Who wants a phone that you still have to bust a stylus out sometimes to hit some menu options? Maybe an XDA member. I would trade all of that in any day for the most fluid UI, intelligent keyboard, and music interface on a phone to date.
The reason for this is ......... just because.
The HTC HD2 is an awesome phone, that should be the basis of any number of other phones. Its very hackable, its stable, it works well, its epically user-friendly and it doesn't have any significant downsides. Its also very easy to change the bootloader on and we've seen the effectiveness of MAGLDR and other options.
Asking why is sort of like asking why Linux exists. It exists because its something people find useful and interesting. Some people find it awesome to hack, some find it great to use. Most don't know about it and never change their phone in any way.
I'm personally waiting to see iOS4 running on the HD2. That will be interestingly epic.
Probably the reason is WM6.5 is pretty much dead, and WP7 isn't. You aren't going to see any new apps or new development for WM6.5. All the latest apps are going to be for iPhone, Android, and WP7.
It's kind of a shame, I think 6.5 seems quite fluid and finger-friendly on my Touch Diamond running Energy ROM. However, none of the games and apps I have for iPhone and Android are available for WM6.5.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, I agree except the uglier part. People for the most part arent members of XDA developers. Who wants a phone that you have to tweak for days before it becomes something functional? Maybe an XDA member. Who wants a phone that you still have to bust a stylus out sometimes to hit some menu options? Maybe an XDA member. I would trade all of that in any day for the most fluid UI, intelligent keyboard, and music interface on a phone to date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just two points :
- In fact uglier or not uglier is just a matter of taste, so I wont argue on that even if I found the WP7 interface horrible ... The real point that is really ugly is that fact that m$ is becoming dictatorial and decided to prevent people to have the right to change it or customize it to suit their needs Personally I will never pay for an OS that will prevent me to do what I want to do. The OS must suit my needs, not the contrary
- And as for the tweaking ... if you take a phone like the HD2 WM+Sense, you have a pretty good power over user friendliness balance, certainly far far better than any of the WP7 devices...
zedd_D1abl0 said:
The reason for this is ......... just because.
The HTC HD2 is an awesome phone, that should be the basis of any number of other phones. Its very hackable, its stable, it works well, its epically user-friendly and it doesn't have any significant downsides. Its also very easy to change the bootloader on and we've seen the effectiveness of MAGLDR and other options.
Asking why is sort of like asking why Linux exists. It exists because its something people find useful and interesting. Some people find it awesome to hack, some find it great to use. Most don't know about it and never change their phone in any way.
I'm personally waiting to see iOS4 running on the HD2. That will be interestingly epic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you've maybe misunderstood me : I don't ask "why HD2 ?" because I also think it is by far the best smartphone on the market even today or why hacking which is more and more logical and legitimate when major companies try to restrict features as much as possible just to try to sell you a shiny new new revolutionary "copy & paste" upgrade a few month later...
My point is : for now I won't change my HD2, I don't think that I will find a better phone on the market in the near future...
I mean, hardware is improving and some really nice 1 ghz+ sliding keyboard like HD7 pro will be soon available... but for me WP7 is just a wobbly dumbphone OS that will prevent me to buy such phone.
But HD2 won't last forever ... so I was just trying to know if there would be a chance that the creativity of the xda gurus could be orientated to try to keep alive WM on newer hardware, as m$ certainly won't do it, as it is more profitable for them to push forward Wobbly Phone 7
GnatGoSplat said:
Probably the reason is WM6.5 is pretty much dead, and WP7 isn't. You aren't going to see any new apps or new development for WM6.5. All the latest apps are going to be for iPhone, Android, and WP7.
It's kind of a shame, I think 6.5 seems quite fluid and finger-friendly on my Touch Diamond running Energy ROM. However, none of the games and apps I have for iPhone and Android are available for WM6.5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it's even better on a HD2 than on a diamond
The fact is that even if WM6.5 is dying ... there are still a lot more apps on WM6.5 than WP7 and you also find apps on WM that you won't find on Android or iPhone.
And developers are stopping to develop on WM6.5 because they think that there is no future...
But maybe if WP7 sales are very low, and power users still try to keep alive WM6.5 and show that they won't accept this forced regression ... maybe m$ will change their minds and they will give us back some power features, customisation and compatibility with WM6.5. After all, WP7 core is still windows CE based so it is just an artificial and arbitrary tie up.
They ditched all the easy access for a UI that's not terrible without a stylus. Fair trade in my opinion. I like 6.5 but I didn't like building up my hd2 with custom everything before I could call it functional. Complain about c & p all you want I never used it. I did however use the keyboard, the menus, the dialer, the SMS programs, email integration, etc. None of which could be considered useful if even functional on 6.5. I'll take an os i don't have to mod to make it awesome over one i can mod in a number of ways any time.