Related
I am looking to replace my Trinity and right now the iPhone is the top contender (I am with AT&T anyway.)
But I'd love to keep the flexibility I get from WM, and have finally made my Trinity rock solid (it hasn't crashed in weeks
The big thing for me is the screen, I like 3.5 and I like the resolution - the Omnia just doesn't look as good to me, plus its screen is smaller.
Is HTC, or someone else, coming out with something new, soon, which will have the screen, the memory (16gb is good) and is also a decent looking phone?
Anyone know?
Silently support the landlord, we support, support for the forum
cwhsjb said:
Silently support the landlord, we support, support for the forum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh?????????
cwhsjb said:
Silently support the landlord, we support, support for the forum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh wtf?
Anyways. Back on topic. WAIT FOR THE AT&T TOUCH PRO. Nuff said.
Silly wabbit! iPhones are for kids.... Any anyone else without enough brain matter to operate a WM device.
If there is too much time on your contract to bail, I'd say wait for the Touch!
Unfortunately, the Touch Pro only has a 2.8" screen, which is a big disadvantage, compared to the 3.5" screen on the iPhone.
I am looking for at least 3.5".
(and since I had my Wizard, I've decided that slider keyboards are useless to me.)
For a screen that size you will need something like a Sedna.
I personally just got the I900. I had an IPhone for a month and I definitely prefer the Omnia I900. However it only has a 3.2" screen and you want 3.5".
I would have gotten a Sedna as I wanted a bigger screen, but at the last minute I got an Omnia and I am really happy with it.
The Touch Pro looks nice, that would probably be my second choice. The omnia has the best on screen keyboard I have seen so far. It not particularly special in any way other than the fact that it works well in Portrait and in landscape with the autmatic rotate function I can rapidly get precise, fast two thumb typing going by just rotating the phone (assuming I have two hands free.)
I have iTouch and have to say that I love it`s touch-screen accuracy, much better than in wm-phones with 2.8" screen, it is just so tiny compared to 3.5" screen.. I usualy do wlan with wmwifirouter and browse net using iTouch since it has bigger resolution and 3.5" screen which doesn`t need stylus + Safari is fast !
One thing what I don`t understand is this 2.8" Wmphonemania, why are they not making 3.5" screens on them ? And 3.2mp cameras are oldish, I love N95 5mp camera, it just takes so good shots, I am jealous :>
But either Symbian or iPhone`s OS, cannot beat WinMo as an operating system :X
MacGuy2006 said:
Unfortunately, the Touch Pro only has a 2.8" screen, which is a big disadvantage, compared to the 3.5" screen on the iPhone.
I am looking for at least 3.5".
(and since I had my Wizard, I've decided that slider keyboards are useless to me.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like for sex size doen't matter... the real problem is: what will be your use of your next phone...
i have tried both one week (iPhone3g and diamond) and i goes diamond because iPhone is too much limited for my use... try both and see what will be your's
How about the Dream?
I am amazed that noone mentioned the HTC Dream. The first Android phone to hit the market will be released on October 13th. Check it out.
Anything Comparable to the iPhone Coming Out On the WM Side? (Quote)
Just surf this forum and you will find a lot of nice options:
HTC G1
HTC HD
etc...
This was exactly the question I was working on for a number of months. Although I also added in, "And won't cost me an arm and a leg".
It finally came down to the Daxian T32/x999+ (Chinese iPhone-ish clone) and the HTC Blue Angel. If the T32 had some buttons that could be used in gaming like the HTC I would've gone with that I think, but I got the HTC Blue Angel instead and it's great.
Of course this is my first PDA, so maybe I'm easily impressed.
Anything else out there either costs WAY too much or has a much smaller screen, or even both. It's too bad nobody is taking the Blue Angel and reworking it with today's technology to make it sleeker and better. Great little machine so far!
http://gizmodo.com/5047830/htc-touch-hd-looks-big-and-beautiful
How about this?
I think it's called HTC Touch HD. Don't know if HD stands for High Definition.
Anyway, this phone for sure has your requirement of 3.5 screen.
What do you think?
There aren't much changes compare to the HTC Touch Pro... It's a real turn off for me. I don't even feel like I want to change phone.
- Different Design (I prefer the diamond back cover)
- The Tilt is back (YAY!).
- Bigger Screen, 3.6" instead of 2.8", and it's thinner
- It's Heavier than the HTC Touch Pro
- Processor "Qualcomm® MSM7200A™, 528 MHz" Instead of "Qualcomm® MSM7201A™, 528 MHz" (Same Speed thou)
- Memory and RAM are the same (Disappointed)
- Faster Download Speed, Europe/Asia: 900/2100 MHz (no America yet, but I'm sure they will come up with something)
- Camera is the same (so disappointed)
I was so eager to change phone from the Tilt to Touch Pro, but not to this phone... Except for the bigger Screen. The Good new is the phone seem to be cheap. So is it time to sell my Fuze yet?
Join this Facebook group if you have nothing else to do
Youtube review
And additionnaly, there's no more D-PAD.
That's the same reason why I didn't go for the Touch HD.
I don't understand this "everything touch" trend.
I love the touchscreen, but I like being able to use the D-PAD for gaming, scrolling through list items and then "right clicking" an item, etc.
mysterd said:
And additionnaly, there's no more D-PAD.
That's the same reason why I didn't go for the Touch HD.
I don't understand this "everything touch" trend.
I love the touchscreen, but I like being able to use the D-PAD for gaming, scrolling through list items and then "right clicking" an item, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2.
I hate not having a D-Pad. What if I don't want to smudge up my screen? A D-pad is a must-have for me.
I replaced an iPhone and a Tilt with a Touch Pro (Fuze) and I *really* miss the larger screen of the iPhone and the ability to tilt the screen. From everything I've read, I will be buying a TP2 as soon as it's available in the US for less than a fortune. Slingplayer will look fabulous on it, I'm sure.
The "everything touch" trend is real easy to understand. iPhone. Period. If it wasn't for Apple, I'd probably have gotten a new one instead of opting for a Fuze. But since Apple insists on treating iPhone users as if they're retarded, I moved on.
I love the bigger screen design but would miss the D-pad, love the tilt (but it is another thing to break) but i dont like the lack of new features (camera the same, same processor speed, same ram, same memory???) seems like they are tryin to pull a iPhone 3G on us... same phone minor improvements
How well do you suppose the camera will function? Do you think we will be able to learn anything from the Touch Pro 2 camera code/functionality that will help us improve the original Touch Pro camera?
pandaboyy said:
- Camera is the same (so disappointed)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
camera is not exactly the same as it wont have a flash, even more disappointing.
the tilting screen is a great thing, as i really miss the tilting screen of the tilt (kaiser)
Not worth it for me...
For me it's simple...
SAME camera (with no 30fps video)
+ SAME processor speed
+ SAME RAM
+ NO enhanced graphics
+ NO fixed GPS lag
----------------
Waste of $$$
Even when and IF they come out with a US 3G model, my money will be staying in my wallet.
And it's stil on WM6.1, so disapointed.
I'm getting bore of my Fuze, I want to change to a new phone, but there isn't any good reason for me to do so... I'm so bored
For me, the return of the tilt screen and a large screen itself make it worth my money. The camera is nothing to me, I use a real camera anyway. What price marks are we seeing for this phone?
While I appreciate the bigger screen, I am not sure how responsive the device would be with higher resolution and same processor since we all know HTC doesn't believe in video acceleration / drivers in business phones.
TP2 is the reason my TP will live longer in my pocket, plus I am looking for other brands (AGAIN).
WHERE IS MY D-PAD!?
...and why limit it to 3.2MP when every other model has 5?
...and where is the flash!?
No thanks.
KevinACrider said:
For me, the return of the tilt screen and a large screen itself make it worth my money. The camera is nothing to me, I use a real camera anyway. What price marks are we seeing for this phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care much about camera either, but I care a lot about the speed. However, i agreed with you for the big screen...
Anyway, to answer your question about the price, this website is selling it for $750, which I think it's reasonable for a new phone. Check before you buy, I think it only works for Europe and Asia so far.
The bigger screen and the Tilt feature are big pluses for me, but the lack of D-pad is just weird. Also, I have a strong feeling that 2009 and 2010 will reveal alot of amazing devices from other manufacturers...plus HTC might release somethign else that is better. I currently have a Fuze and I think I will just wait. I want to see how WM7 pans out. I sold my iPhone for $400 and I'm saving the money for something that really deserves it. If I still had my Tilt, I would probably upgrade to the TP2, but from a Fuze to a TP2 doesn't make much sense to me.
Well...HTC lost me on this TP2. Not this time...
I honestly like the first Touch Pro more. I don't like the roundedness...I prefer sharp angles. It looks too fat lol.
I love the new Tilt design, it looks more tilted, but I personally prefer the diamond sharp on the back of my Fuze. And the USB slot look too UGLY, it's just coming out too much. I take back what I said about the Camera, I do use the camera on my device a lot lately, mostly because of the fast upload to Facebook.
Join this Facebook group guys...
Seeing the big screen on this youtube, really make me want it now
Gimme your advice about the D-PAD problem : what do you use instead of it, for example for gaming and so on ? I mean, if you want to control some game emulator, do you use on screen buttons ? As the current devices are not multitouch (I don't want to speak about some well known IwannabeaPHONE), i don't think these are suitable for proper gaming.
Maybe the simple answer is "I don't use my device for gaming...".
What do you think ?
"Some" emulator programs allow onscreen virtual Dpads... but without multitouch, you'll be unable to simultaneously press onscreen buttons.
All games are different though. Some are simply point and click games which don't require a dpad. Others work well without a Dpad.
Most games will flat out be impossible to use.
I came from the Samsung Epix with its Optical Dpad/Mouse... to the Fuze for the Dpad. I later found that the Dpad isn't really a Dpad... but a touchscreen with optical sensors (which is why the Dpad on the fuze sucks; but at least it is a functioning dpad).
I swore my next phone will have a physical dpad and a jog wheel.
player911 said:
I swore my next phone will have a physical dpad and a jog wheel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm surprised how few WM devices have a jog wheel; my last one was a FSC Loox 720 and a jog wheel was one of its major positive points back then. It hardly seems like it would be an expensive or difficult control to add, but I guess it's not free and so there's something for HTC to gain by not including one.
I also prefer the diamond back of the Touch Pro, not that the Vario IV has it anyway though (not clear why they had to change that).
I've been researching about this for a while now and the longer I think about which to get, the more confusing it is. I would like to solicit inputs from this forum regarding the pros and cons of each.
The differences between each is relatively minor, which makes it even harder to make a choice.
So far these are the significant features of each handset for me:
HTC Touch Pro
- 2.8-inch screen with VGA resolution
- Five-row QWERTY keyboard
- Has directional-pad
SE XPERIA X1
- 3.0-inch screen with WVGA resolution
- 3.5mm audio jack
- Four-row QWERTY keyboard
- Optical trackpad
HTC Touch Pro2
- 3.6-inch screen with WVGA resolution
- Five-row QWERTY keyboard
- No directional-pad
- Tilting screen (but doesn't the hinge get loose after a while?)
I was also looking at the Touch HD but it did not have a physical tactile QWERTY. I know it does have a big onscreen keyboard but I feel like I will still be longing for something with tactile response after a while.
Another question with regards to these slide-out QWERTY phones is that, does the slide mechanism stay tight for a long time? I've seen videos and these phones use spring-loaded slide-out mechanisms. Anybody ever have them go loose after some time?
Is the directional-pad really that big of a deal with Windows Mobile phones? Is it used in order to avoid taking out the stylus? I've searched around the web and see that many people are complaining about the removal of the d-pad with some models.
As for WVGA and VGA, is there a big enough difference to really go for WVGA?
I may have missed some key differences between these models. If yes, do kindly point them out. As far as I can tell, the hardware specifications of the ones I am looking for are pretty much the same (i.e. processor, RAM/ROM, 3G, GPS, WiFi, etc.)
I would buy the TouchPro2!
I have got the Kaiser (also with the tilt screen) and the tilting/sliding mechanism is out of metal and its working perfect till today after nearly 1 and a half year
On the Kaiser (320x240) I nearly never use the stylus, If I press on the screen with my finger I hit the point I wont
The D-Pad I never user more or less I like to use the wheel at the side which is much more comfortable and when I need some more buttons everything is on the full qwertz keyboard.
But I recognized I type faster with TouchPal on screenkeyboard (with suggestions) than with the hardware keyboard. The hardwarekeyboard never the less is nice for games and emulator
And of cause WVGA / VGA is a big difference 800x480/640x480
no brainer...wait for HTC Touch Pro2!
I would certainly wait for the Touch Pro2. First, it will be the newest HTC device, so it will have official support for a long time to come. Secondly, the tilting screen is very nice to have, especially if you use the device for media. As you can see from my signature, I have a Kaiser, and I love its tilting screen. And the hinge on my Kaiser has barely weakened, if at all. In addition, watch this and this, and you'll see why this phone looks so nice.
Dave
Get a x1 or wait for the pro 2. i got a x1 and its a lot better than the pro but need to wait and see on the pro 2. they have the same specs but i dont like the hindge .on the screen, think u will have problems with that after a while
scilor said:
I would buy the TouchPro2!
I have got the Kaiser (also with the tilt screen) and the tilting/sliding mechanism is out of metal and its working perfect till today after nearly 1 and a half year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you always tilt the screen up?
scilor said:
On the Kaiser (320x240) I nearly never use the stylus, If I press on the screen with my finger I hit the point I wont
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then it would be much easier on the HTC Touch phones since they use the TouchFLO interface.
scilor said:
The D-Pad I never user more or less I like to use the wheel at the side which is much more comfortable and when I need some more buttons everything is on the full qwertz keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing is, the Kaiser is the only one with the wheel on the side. Everything else either has a D-Pad or no D-Pad.
scilor said:
But I recognized I type faster with TouchPal on screenkeyboard (with suggestions) than with the hardware keyboard. The hardwarekeyboard never the less is nice for games and emulator
And of cause WVGA / VGA is a big difference 800x480/640x480
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly am fine with using an on-screen keyboard, but not for a very long time. I've used PocketPC's before and I just seemingly long for a tactile QWERTY keyboard after a while.
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Secondly, the tilting screen is very nice to have, especially if you use the device for media. As you can see from my signature, I have a Kaiser, and I love its tilting screen. And the hinge on my Kaiser has barely weakened, if at all. In addition, watch this and this, and you'll see why this phone looks so nice.
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long have you been using your Kaiser? Do you always tilt the screen up?
Ganondolf said:
Get a x1 or wait for the pro 2. i got a x1 and its a lot better than the pro but need to wait and see on the pro 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lot better than the HTC Touch Pro in what aspects? The QWERTY on the Touch Pro wins since it has the additional numeric row.
Can you please explain?
Ganondolf said:
they have the same specs but i dont like the hindge .on the screen, think u will have problems with that after a while
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as the hinge on the Touch Pro2 is concerned, I honestly won't be tilting it that much (I think).
X1 is the better one now and will be loads cheaper than the TP2. However, if price isn't an issue go with the TP2.
Wait for TP2!!!
I´ll go for it also!
for me, the x1 is the perfect size--I dont like my phones with big faces like the iphone
the x1 has a better screen, looks better.
the keyboard does only have 4 rows on the x1 but the keyboard itself is a lot better in looks and feel.
there is a thread somewhere in the forum (search for it). it has a poll of all the htc devices which one people prefer and the x1 is well in front so its not just me.
as far as pro 2 goes, i would have to play with a live model to give u a honest answer. cant see how people can recommend a hanset that not even out yet. although unlikely it might run like **** and be rubbish, so wait till they have live sets in a shop near u and have a play with one when its out before buying.
Another note on the HTC Touch Pro.
It's the only one with a scroll wheel. Are all the buttons on the Touch Pro non-tactile?
It depends on where you are located. If you are in the USA and not on T-Mobile, get the X1A. If you are on Tmo, wait for the TP2. I had a Touch Pro(Fuze) and while it was a nice unit, I am much happier with the Xperia here in the US on AT&T. If you are not in the USA, get the Xperia or the TP2.
Later..........
blued888 said:
I've been researching about this for a while now and the longer I think about which to get, the more confusing it is. I would like to solicit inputs from this forum regarding the pros and cons of each.
The differences between each is relatively minor, which makes it even harder to make a choice.
So far these are the significant features of each handset for me:
HTC Touch Pro
- 2.8-inch screen with VGA resolution
- Five-row QWERTY keyboard
- Has directional-pad
SE XPERIA X1
- 3.0-inch screen with WVGA resolution
- 3.5mm audio jack
- Four-row QWERTY keyboard
- Optical trackpad
HTC Touch Pro2
- 3.6-inch screen with WVGA resolution
- Five-row QWERTY keyboard
- No directional-pad
- Tilting screen (but doesn't the hinge get loose after a while?)
I was also looking at the Touch HD but it did not have a physical tactile QWERTY. I know it does have a big onscreen keyboard but I feel like I will still be longing for something with tactile response after a while.
Another question with regards to these slide-out QWERTY phones is that, does the slide mechanism stay tight for a long time? I've seen videos and these phones use spring-loaded slide-out mechanisms. Anybody ever have them go loose after some time?
Is the directional-pad really that big of a deal with Windows Mobile phones? Is it used in order to avoid taking out the stylus? I've searched around the web and see that many people are complaining about the removal of the d-pad with some models.
As for WVGA and VGA, is there a big enough difference to really go for WVGA?
I may have missed some key differences between these models. If yes, do kindly point them out. As far as I can tell, the hardware specifications of the ones I am looking for are pretty much the same (i.e. processor, RAM/ROM, 3G, GPS, WiFi, etc.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I'm gonna wait for the Touch Pro2 and see how it is when I get to demo a unit. Rumored release date here in the Philippines is sometime June 2009.
Btw, is it just me or does the XPERIA screen thinner (less width) and longer (more height) than other HTC's?
A follow-up questoin regarding WVGA screens, are most WM applications compatible with the 800x480 resolution of the newer HTC's? Or does VGA/QVGA still reign?
Thanks!
I love my Fuze (Touch Pro) but I'm versy disappointed with the tiny screen. The TP2 has a huge screen, and more importantly: Incredible features. The only thing that's really got me worried is the lack of a dpad on the portrait face.
That said, I still plan on getting one.
l3it3r said:
I love my Fuze (Touch Pro) but I'm versy disappointed with the tiny screen. The TP2 has a huge screen, and more importantly: Incredible features. The only thing that's really got me worried is the lack of a dpad on the portrait face.
That said, I still plan on getting one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what worries me also, the lack of the d-pad on the TP2.
I had the xperia and i am getting the touch pro. to me the video out is what i need and what the xperia doesn't have. Also the touch pro and the xperia will be a lot less than the touch pro 2 so that was another factor for me.
I have had an X1 for 5 months........in fact I have had five X1s.
All have had cracked cases and I have had enough.
I am changing for a HD Pro (XDA Serra on O2 UK)
I will miss the screen but the basic spec is very similar.
Very poor show Sony and many thanks to O2 for allowing an exchange.
Don't go for the Touch Pro, WVGA is the screen of the future, and all newer interfaces will likely be optimized for it. It'll become harder and harder to get non buggy ROMS for VGA screes as time goes on.
The X1 is awesome, and looks the best of the bunch, not to mention it is not bulky like the others. It still has SE support as they still get ROM updates with new features (unlike HTC which may just fix a bug or 2, but never updates the actual features).
X1 Cons: The screen is only 3.0 inches which is bigger than 2.8, but still not big. SE didn't build all of the niceties of Touch Flo devices into it such as nicer contacts screen, new volume app, etc.
The TP2 is a powerhouse, and has everything you could ever want except for the cheesy looking plastic build, and the gargantuan size.
If aesthetics are important to you go X1, if having the latest, greatest, is important go TP2.
Hey guys, don't forget if the rumors are true, we'll be getting the "omnia pro" AND the x2 sometime soon, and I think a couple more, though I can't remember what atm. There are alot of new choices with sliding KBs out there. Personally, after the fuze and now the omnia, my preference would have the following: tv-out (must), WVGA (must)(the new future), hard KB (must, preferably w/ tilt), flash for camera (want, not need), FM radio (want, not need). I miss not having a Dpad, but cope w/o it, same with the scroll wheel (ala kaiser), and stylus. Headphone jack, there are always adapters.
here is the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EKlV2IG7Hg&feature=player_embedded
looks like its on the omnia..
Very fast and smooth!
When we will see something like that on WM??
It looks like they are maybe selling the tools to be able to create things like that.
http://www.tat.se/site/media/news.html
orb3000 said:
Very fast and smooth!
When we will see something like that on WM??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im sure wm7 would be fast and smooth!
alexsandros said:
im sure wm7 would be fast and smooth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope you´re right!
I have my doubts about it...
Theres a whole slew of videos by TaT on there (youtube) some of them are pretty cool, they should release some software rather than making these concept videos. Either that or maybe they are just trying to get MS attention
Its on a Samsung (meaning most likely a WM phone)... and in the youtube comments, the uploader said that it is for WM, Android, and S60... MS just needs to adopt that UI completely... and put pressure on phone companies to make CAPACITIVE touch phones... Resistive ones will NEVER be as smooth... Or maybe they should just invest in "nano" IR technology for touch screens so its truly multitouch...
I understand these are concept videos... so does that mean they are not functional as of now?... I would try to imitate a UI like that except I only know .NET and not OpenGL ES... and I dont trust .NET with speed or stability... :-/...
Edit:
More videos at
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAstonishingTribe
Seems like this company just creates UI concepts which never release. Hmmm... Maybe they just like people drooling on their keyboard, but never being satisfied :-?...
Edit2:
I like this one too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIkQguTRWgM&feature=related
really like this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SImOIMcMlk&feature=related
Hope they actually release those UI rather than the concept.
I feel like the Nexus UI is actually under development because the person is showing it on actual hardware... The other videos were just software movies (no hardware around them)... However, I feel like this UI will only support TI processors such as the one on Omnia and not the Qualcomms which is mainly what HTC uses... Because according to one of their documentation, their concepts and actual library have been running on TI processors...
drownage said:
(...) and put pressure on phone companies to make CAPACITIVE touch phones... Resistive ones will NEVER be as smooth... Or maybe they should just invest in "nano" IR technology for touch screens so its truly multitouch...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. Take a look at this for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsfxdxmAUoo
these are resistive touch panels , so they have all advantages of this type: durability, accuracy (if extra accuracy is needed, you can use a stylus), plus they have advantages of capacitive panels: responsiveness and sensitivity (in the video you can see the touchscreen operated by a brush and a piece of paper) and of course multitouch.
Let's just hope we see touchscreens like that in our pda's soon.
Oh nice didnt know about that... the second video u linked to, the "How It Works" part, is it showing 4 filaments of different widths? Because otherwise, I cannot see how a single resistive filament can provide multiple touches... I doubt that kind of responsiveness wud be possible on the Kaiser, touching the filament, bends it all the way... I still dont get how that works... I guess we'll find out soon... If you have any further information on that tech, please let me know... Thanks
mr_deimos said:
Wrong. Take a look at this for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsfxdxmAUoo
these are resistive touch panels , so they have all advantages of this type: durability, accuracy (if extra accuracy is needed, you can use a stylus), plus they have advantages of capacitive panels: responsiveness and sensitivity (in the video you can see the touchscreen operated by a brush and a piece of paper) and of course multitouch.
Let's just hope we see touchscreens like that in our pda's soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDIT:
Hmm.. heres how it works:
http://www.stantum.com/spip.php?article52
Wouldnt the touchscreen feel bumpy due to the matrix? Hmm supposedly coming out Q4 2009... I doubt any current phones have that technology...
My understanding is that while there is some optimisation for finger use in WM6.5, there are other parts of the OS that are still best suited to a stylus. For example accurately selecting text in Word, or selecting a range of cells in Excel.
One of the reasons Apple took so long to come out with copy/paste in the UI is because they knew they had to make it work with a fat finger.
My point is that I wonder how wise it is to combine a capacitive screen with WM6.5 on the Leo. I'm sure it will work fine with the basic stuff, particularly in TF3D applications. However, if I can't easily use a finger for everything, then it's going to be a real pain either struggling to touch accurately with a finger or carrying around a capacitive stylus that I'll just lose after a couple of days.
What do you reckon?
How optimised? The short answer is "not very". By default, the WM6.5 finger-friendliness is only skin deep. A few clicks and you'll quickly find yourself back at the ancient ugly stylus-designed interface from 2002.
TF3D makes things much, much nicer, but no matter how much you customise WM, there are many applications designed only for stylus use. Pocket Informant, for example, is a very useful PIM - but is difficult to use with only fingers. Many, many pieces of third-party software out there are the same. Really only a few applications are truly designed for fingers rather than stylus.
This is a problem that WM can't really fix. It's just a byproduct of the OS's age - it's been around in various forms since at least 2000. For the most part, applications written 5 to 10 years ago still work on modern WM devices. This is compounded by the fact that modern WM phones are still shipping with styluses.
I suppose if WM7 requires finger-friendly support, then things will improve considerably from third-party software companies. But until then, things are pretty dire.
microsoft fired their director for windows mobile and is putting a fire under its mobile division's ass to make winmo7 a homerun. microsoft isnt sleeping on this anymore, expect big things next year for windows mobile...
I have a Touch Pro2 running a 6.5 ROM and I actually find that, in combination with the large WVGA screen, I rarely need the stylus even in applications made for previous versions of WM. Though TouchFLO helps, even when disabled I can still navigate without a stylus. However, occasionally finger precision isn't enough and I need the stylus, but for the most part, 6.5 is actually pretty finger friendly.
However, the 6.5 Build can make a huge difference with how finger friendly the ROM is, so it's not terribly accurate to say that all 6.5 builds are finger friendly when the features of different builds are so diverse.
Windows 6.5? Not very. Practically not at all. The outside is different but the insides are almost identical to 6.1
HOWEVER 6.5.1 is VERY finger friendly. There is a lot of difference and you can expect a lot more finger friendliness with the future builds of windows mobile.
I am really looking forward for more detailed reviews about Leo, especially working with tiny UI elements, which are still there in WM 6.5. Actually, the changes of 6.5 are minor and it is not nearly as touch optimized OS. And in all of this hype about Leo no one talks about how we are going to work without stylus on this device. There already are a couple previews and some videos with a lot of "wow’s" about the first capacitive screen with multi-touch zoom in WM, but no any word or demo about using Excel or some other application that has many small buttons or things to click, drag and move. And aren't exactly these apps the real power of WM not the useless fancy weather effects, beautiful scrolling gallery (out of use for more than 20 pics) or multi-touch zoom only in few apps? I am not sure if the capacitive screen is an advantage or at least not for Windows. Nevertheless, soon we’ll see if I’m wrong (hope I am ).
martoto said:
And in all of this hype about Leo no one talks about how we are going to work without stylus on this device.
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Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. Moving to a device with over 2x the screen size, I can't see there being a big problem. Sure I'll be using more of my finger and less of the nail, but a >2x bigger screen should more than compensate for that!
That said, resistive is still probably going to be the technology of choice for smaller screens, especially since for a while at least MS plan for smaller(/cheaper) devices to stick with 6.x instead of 7.
As for 6.5's general finger-friendliness, it's ahead of 6.1 in some places but the difference isn't that big. 6.5.x is where the action is on that front, and at least we enthusiasts will be making the most of that, even if the average buyer won't be. Well, we'll be making the most of it until we first get the v7 leaks
mr_Ray said:
Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. Moving to a device with over 2x the screen size, I can't see there being a big problem. Sure I'll be using more of my finger and less of the nail, but a >2x bigger screen should more than compensate for that!
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You can't use a nail at all on a capacitive screen, only skin.
I have a Touch Pro2 (3.6" screen) and I have to say that I use the stylus all the time - Opera 9.5 would be totally unuseable without it, and any time you start using a Windows app with radio buttons and checkboxes, the stylus is far easier. That would even more true if I couldn't use a fingernail for added accuracy compared to a finger. It remains to be seen how much difference WM6.5 and production Opera 9.7 make to that.
I for one, just don't know what Microsoft is doing with this half arsed attempt of a finger friendly OS,
They are shipping 6.5.....the OS looks like one of the worst put together it looks very very rushed (we know its not...they've had more than enough time)
HTC with thier TouchFlo is a far more elegant solution.
Microsoft can stick 6.5 where the sun don't shine....
No such thing as a finger friendly Microsoft OS...yet
mr_Ray said:
Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. ...
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A very simple example with app that every WM has - the mobile Excel. Open a new file and try to change the row height without using a stylus or a nail. It is possible but not near as easy, isn’t it? On a twice bigger screen, the row border will be almost the same thickness. So here a bigger screen won't help. Just imagine that you need to work with a similar interface every day. Now, tell me is there anything that can be done with capacitive screen but cannot with resistive? Don't get me wrong, I know that if you work only with fingers, capacitive screens are far better. But here we have windows mobile, and for these users that often leave the TouchFlo to use the true power of windows, the lack of possibility of precise pointing on the screen could be a big issue.
martoto said:
A very simple example with app that every WM has - the mobile Excel. Open a new file and try to change the row height without using a stylus or a nail. It is possible but not near as easy, isn’t it? On a twice bigger screen, the row border will be almost the same thickness. So here a bigger screen won't help. Just imagine that you need to work with a similar interface every day. Now, tell me is there anything that can be done with capacitive screen but cannot with resistive? Don't get me wrong, I know that if you work only with fingers, capacitive screens are far better. But here we have windows mobile, and for these users that often leave the TouchFlo to use the true power of windows, the lack of possibility of precise pointing on the screen could be a big issue.
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I never claimed that my usage was a template for every other person on the planet, and would never think to do so. For *me* capacitive has a few advantages over resistive, and likewise a few disadvantages, it pretty much comes out as a wash. I'd stil be as happy with the HD2 if it had a resistive screen.
My use of Excel on the go is purely simple data entry or just viewing. There are also other ways to resize than clicking on and dragging a line a pixel or two wide. I also recognise there are many people who would find such things infuriatin with *their* usage patterns, applications, and habits.
This whole issue really highlights Microsoft's biggest issue in Windows Mobi... er Windows Phone today. It's a stylus-based PDA OS trying to be a finger-based phone OS. The heritage is based entirely in yesterday's PDAs - where it was fantastic for the job and thrashed PalmOS in the marketplace.
However there's been a gradual change in usage of the OS from PDAs to phones, and the underlying systems just haven't adapted to the changes. The UI today is much the same as it was in 2002. If you want your OS on a modern smartphone where people want to pull their phone out of their pocket and tap and slide with their fingers, you just can't get away with an interface and screen tech from a 2002 PDA.
Be one or the other - create a side branch for the dwindling userbase who want a PDA or PDA/phone if you have to - but the core of the OS itself if you want it on a phone - just has to adapt to survive.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. It seems to me that if WM6.5 is not fully optimized for finger use, which it's not, then HTC really shouldn't combine it with a capacitive screen. Simple as that.
Moandal said:
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. It seems to me that if WM6.5 is not fully optimized for finger use, which it's not, then HTC really shouldn't combine it with a capacitive screen. Simple as that.
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Well, that's a large part of the reason for TouchFLO/Sense UI, of course; WM6.5 by itself isn't sufficiently finger-friendly, but with the HD2's customised UI on top of it, it is (in HTC's opinion, anyway).
But is it just where the balance of their expertise and development lies? One looks at the HTC Leo and it looks like an android device.....lots of hardware supported under Android, but not under WM.....and the whole thing kludged together to work on an operating system with built in short term obsolescence.
It seems to me that we are in a transition period. Hardware too sophisticated for WM 6.5, but development of WM7 and Android not yet complete.
I think WM is a dead duck until (and maybe beyond) WM7, and the inroads that other systems can make between now and it's release will probably give an indication of the future direction of mass market smartphones.
Given the apparent inability of Microsoft to deliver a satisfactory platform for ordinary users and developers alike, and Androids success in doing exactly that (although still early days), I see it going only one way for the mass market.
I've bought my last WM phone (I think). It was Blackstone.
in short like only 1 or 2 have already said.... 6.5 is not
6.5.1 [aka towards wm7] is very much finger optimised.
if u guys are not clear, then only the versions which have start buttons on bottom are 6.5.1 and can be used with one hand. 6.5 its a mixed bag and u have to use both hands sometimes.
atifsh said:
in short like only 1 or 2 have already said.... 6.5 is not
6.5.1 [aka towards wm7] is very much finger optimised.
if u guys are not clear, then only the versions which have start buttons on bottom are 6.5.1 and can be used with one hand. 6.5 its a mixed bag and u have to use both hands sometimes.
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What's the big difference between 6.5 and 6.5.1 then? I wouldn't have though a 0.0.1 version change would be much different. Also which version does the HD2 have? The specs I've seen say it's got 6.5.
Windows has really lost it's way. They need to pick a path tha makes sense and stick to it.
The way I see it there are two camps. the iPhone is for entertainment and the blackberry is more business oriented. Why they are going after the iPhone is beyond me. The pocketpc was an awesome business tool and they are trying to evolve it into an iPhone.
Look at Blackberry, most of their phones have no touch screen. They have a trackball! Yikes! But that works for business...
I routinely use my phone for powerpoint presentation, I use excel, I am an original PPC user and they are making the product stylus unfriendly and removing the hardware buttons...
I have the TP2 and I would trade in the touch screen for a scroll wheel, and a d-pad...
I don't think Windows can win against the iphone. They should go after blackberry...
I think there's 2 things here.
Windows Mobile as an OS needs a lot of work IMO. The current hardware is so capable but still windows manages to be sluggish at times. This needs to be fixed, it should be rewritten for the ground up for the more capable modern hardware, better resource management, using all resources to make the thing go as smooth as possible.
Then for the interface ... well ... it's all in the name 'Pocket PC'. It's like a small computer, it even has a startmenu etc... that's how it was build. Devices changed though, and now we need finger friendly interface with eye candy and 3D.
Let's hope that Windows Phone 7 will be as good and revolutionary as Windows 7 for desktop. And let's hope that we won't have to buy a new phone to run it
Moandal said:
Also which version does the HD2 have? The specs I've seen say it's got 6.5.
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6.5.1 hasn't been released yet and won't be until somewhere around February. I wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 gets a 6.5.1 upgrade, although there's no guarantee. If you don't mind installing a "cooked" ROM then it may be available sooner in beta form.
I had no trouble using my big nail-less thumbs on 6.1. WinMo 6.5 is better but not much different. You want something better install the 6.5.1 ROM. I've been using it for the last month and it's the most finger freindly version of WinMo.