My understanding is that while there is some optimisation for finger use in WM6.5, there are other parts of the OS that are still best suited to a stylus. For example accurately selecting text in Word, or selecting a range of cells in Excel.
One of the reasons Apple took so long to come out with copy/paste in the UI is because they knew they had to make it work with a fat finger.
My point is that I wonder how wise it is to combine a capacitive screen with WM6.5 on the Leo. I'm sure it will work fine with the basic stuff, particularly in TF3D applications. However, if I can't easily use a finger for everything, then it's going to be a real pain either struggling to touch accurately with a finger or carrying around a capacitive stylus that I'll just lose after a couple of days.
What do you reckon?
How optimised? The short answer is "not very". By default, the WM6.5 finger-friendliness is only skin deep. A few clicks and you'll quickly find yourself back at the ancient ugly stylus-designed interface from 2002.
TF3D makes things much, much nicer, but no matter how much you customise WM, there are many applications designed only for stylus use. Pocket Informant, for example, is a very useful PIM - but is difficult to use with only fingers. Many, many pieces of third-party software out there are the same. Really only a few applications are truly designed for fingers rather than stylus.
This is a problem that WM can't really fix. It's just a byproduct of the OS's age - it's been around in various forms since at least 2000. For the most part, applications written 5 to 10 years ago still work on modern WM devices. This is compounded by the fact that modern WM phones are still shipping with styluses.
I suppose if WM7 requires finger-friendly support, then things will improve considerably from third-party software companies. But until then, things are pretty dire.
microsoft fired their director for windows mobile and is putting a fire under its mobile division's ass to make winmo7 a homerun. microsoft isnt sleeping on this anymore, expect big things next year for windows mobile...
I have a Touch Pro2 running a 6.5 ROM and I actually find that, in combination with the large WVGA screen, I rarely need the stylus even in applications made for previous versions of WM. Though TouchFLO helps, even when disabled I can still navigate without a stylus. However, occasionally finger precision isn't enough and I need the stylus, but for the most part, 6.5 is actually pretty finger friendly.
However, the 6.5 Build can make a huge difference with how finger friendly the ROM is, so it's not terribly accurate to say that all 6.5 builds are finger friendly when the features of different builds are so diverse.
Windows 6.5? Not very. Practically not at all. The outside is different but the insides are almost identical to 6.1
HOWEVER 6.5.1 is VERY finger friendly. There is a lot of difference and you can expect a lot more finger friendliness with the future builds of windows mobile.
I am really looking forward for more detailed reviews about Leo, especially working with tiny UI elements, which are still there in WM 6.5. Actually, the changes of 6.5 are minor and it is not nearly as touch optimized OS. And in all of this hype about Leo no one talks about how we are going to work without stylus on this device. There already are a couple previews and some videos with a lot of "wow’s" about the first capacitive screen with multi-touch zoom in WM, but no any word or demo about using Excel or some other application that has many small buttons or things to click, drag and move. And aren't exactly these apps the real power of WM not the useless fancy weather effects, beautiful scrolling gallery (out of use for more than 20 pics) or multi-touch zoom only in few apps? I am not sure if the capacitive screen is an advantage or at least not for Windows. Nevertheless, soon we’ll see if I’m wrong (hope I am ).
martoto said:
And in all of this hype about Leo no one talks about how we are going to work without stylus on this device.
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Click to collapse
Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. Moving to a device with over 2x the screen size, I can't see there being a big problem. Sure I'll be using more of my finger and less of the nail, but a >2x bigger screen should more than compensate for that!
That said, resistive is still probably going to be the technology of choice for smaller screens, especially since for a while at least MS plan for smaller(/cheaper) devices to stick with 6.x instead of 7.
As for 6.5's general finger-friendliness, it's ahead of 6.1 in some places but the difference isn't that big. 6.5.x is where the action is on that front, and at least we enthusiasts will be making the most of that, even if the average buyer won't be. Well, we'll be making the most of it until we first get the v7 leaks
mr_Ray said:
Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. Moving to a device with over 2x the screen size, I can't see there being a big problem. Sure I'll be using more of my finger and less of the nail, but a >2x bigger screen should more than compensate for that!
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Click to collapse
You can't use a nail at all on a capacitive screen, only skin.
I have a Touch Pro2 (3.6" screen) and I have to say that I use the stylus all the time - Opera 9.5 would be totally unuseable without it, and any time you start using a Windows app with radio buttons and checkboxes, the stylus is far easier. That would even more true if I couldn't use a fingernail for added accuracy compared to a finger. It remains to be seen how much difference WM6.5 and production Opera 9.7 make to that.
I for one, just don't know what Microsoft is doing with this half arsed attempt of a finger friendly OS,
They are shipping 6.5.....the OS looks like one of the worst put together it looks very very rushed (we know its not...they've had more than enough time)
HTC with thier TouchFlo is a far more elegant solution.
Microsoft can stick 6.5 where the sun don't shine....
No such thing as a finger friendly Microsoft OS...yet
mr_Ray said:
Well with my current 2.8" screen (Touch Pro) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to get the stylus out to do anything. ...
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Click to collapse
A very simple example with app that every WM has - the mobile Excel. Open a new file and try to change the row height without using a stylus or a nail. It is possible but not near as easy, isn’t it? On a twice bigger screen, the row border will be almost the same thickness. So here a bigger screen won't help. Just imagine that you need to work with a similar interface every day. Now, tell me is there anything that can be done with capacitive screen but cannot with resistive? Don't get me wrong, I know that if you work only with fingers, capacitive screens are far better. But here we have windows mobile, and for these users that often leave the TouchFlo to use the true power of windows, the lack of possibility of precise pointing on the screen could be a big issue.
martoto said:
A very simple example with app that every WM has - the mobile Excel. Open a new file and try to change the row height without using a stylus or a nail. It is possible but not near as easy, isn’t it? On a twice bigger screen, the row border will be almost the same thickness. So here a bigger screen won't help. Just imagine that you need to work with a similar interface every day. Now, tell me is there anything that can be done with capacitive screen but cannot with resistive? Don't get me wrong, I know that if you work only with fingers, capacitive screens are far better. But here we have windows mobile, and for these users that often leave the TouchFlo to use the true power of windows, the lack of possibility of precise pointing on the screen could be a big issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never claimed that my usage was a template for every other person on the planet, and would never think to do so. For *me* capacitive has a few advantages over resistive, and likewise a few disadvantages, it pretty much comes out as a wash. I'd stil be as happy with the HD2 if it had a resistive screen.
My use of Excel on the go is purely simple data entry or just viewing. There are also other ways to resize than clicking on and dragging a line a pixel or two wide. I also recognise there are many people who would find such things infuriatin with *their* usage patterns, applications, and habits.
This whole issue really highlights Microsoft's biggest issue in Windows Mobi... er Windows Phone today. It's a stylus-based PDA OS trying to be a finger-based phone OS. The heritage is based entirely in yesterday's PDAs - where it was fantastic for the job and thrashed PalmOS in the marketplace.
However there's been a gradual change in usage of the OS from PDAs to phones, and the underlying systems just haven't adapted to the changes. The UI today is much the same as it was in 2002. If you want your OS on a modern smartphone where people want to pull their phone out of their pocket and tap and slide with their fingers, you just can't get away with an interface and screen tech from a 2002 PDA.
Be one or the other - create a side branch for the dwindling userbase who want a PDA or PDA/phone if you have to - but the core of the OS itself if you want it on a phone - just has to adapt to survive.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. It seems to me that if WM6.5 is not fully optimized for finger use, which it's not, then HTC really shouldn't combine it with a capacitive screen. Simple as that.
Moandal said:
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. It seems to me that if WM6.5 is not fully optimized for finger use, which it's not, then HTC really shouldn't combine it with a capacitive screen. Simple as that.
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Click to collapse
Well, that's a large part of the reason for TouchFLO/Sense UI, of course; WM6.5 by itself isn't sufficiently finger-friendly, but with the HD2's customised UI on top of it, it is (in HTC's opinion, anyway).
But is it just where the balance of their expertise and development lies? One looks at the HTC Leo and it looks like an android device.....lots of hardware supported under Android, but not under WM.....and the whole thing kludged together to work on an operating system with built in short term obsolescence.
It seems to me that we are in a transition period. Hardware too sophisticated for WM 6.5, but development of WM7 and Android not yet complete.
I think WM is a dead duck until (and maybe beyond) WM7, and the inroads that other systems can make between now and it's release will probably give an indication of the future direction of mass market smartphones.
Given the apparent inability of Microsoft to deliver a satisfactory platform for ordinary users and developers alike, and Androids success in doing exactly that (although still early days), I see it going only one way for the mass market.
I've bought my last WM phone (I think). It was Blackstone.
in short like only 1 or 2 have already said.... 6.5 is not
6.5.1 [aka towards wm7] is very much finger optimised.
if u guys are not clear, then only the versions which have start buttons on bottom are 6.5.1 and can be used with one hand. 6.5 its a mixed bag and u have to use both hands sometimes.
atifsh said:
in short like only 1 or 2 have already said.... 6.5 is not
6.5.1 [aka towards wm7] is very much finger optimised.
if u guys are not clear, then only the versions which have start buttons on bottom are 6.5.1 and can be used with one hand. 6.5 its a mixed bag and u have to use both hands sometimes.
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Click to collapse
What's the big difference between 6.5 and 6.5.1 then? I wouldn't have though a 0.0.1 version change would be much different. Also which version does the HD2 have? The specs I've seen say it's got 6.5.
Windows has really lost it's way. They need to pick a path tha makes sense and stick to it.
The way I see it there are two camps. the iPhone is for entertainment and the blackberry is more business oriented. Why they are going after the iPhone is beyond me. The pocketpc was an awesome business tool and they are trying to evolve it into an iPhone.
Look at Blackberry, most of their phones have no touch screen. They have a trackball! Yikes! But that works for business...
I routinely use my phone for powerpoint presentation, I use excel, I am an original PPC user and they are making the product stylus unfriendly and removing the hardware buttons...
I have the TP2 and I would trade in the touch screen for a scroll wheel, and a d-pad...
I don't think Windows can win against the iphone. They should go after blackberry...
I think there's 2 things here.
Windows Mobile as an OS needs a lot of work IMO. The current hardware is so capable but still windows manages to be sluggish at times. This needs to be fixed, it should be rewritten for the ground up for the more capable modern hardware, better resource management, using all resources to make the thing go as smooth as possible.
Then for the interface ... well ... it's all in the name 'Pocket PC'. It's like a small computer, it even has a startmenu etc... that's how it was build. Devices changed though, and now we need finger friendly interface with eye candy and 3D.
Let's hope that Windows Phone 7 will be as good and revolutionary as Windows 7 for desktop. And let's hope that we won't have to buy a new phone to run it
Moandal said:
Also which version does the HD2 have? The specs I've seen say it's got 6.5.
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Click to collapse
6.5.1 hasn't been released yet and won't be until somewhere around February. I wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 gets a 6.5.1 upgrade, although there's no guarantee. If you don't mind installing a "cooked" ROM then it may be available sooner in beta form.
I had no trouble using my big nail-less thumbs on 6.1. WinMo 6.5 is better but not much different. You want something better install the 6.5.1 ROM. I've been using it for the last month and it's the most finger freindly version of WinMo.
Related
HI all,
The users of this forum seem to be at the cutting edge of technology.
We embrace Windows Mobile in all it's shapes, forms & glory.
What I'm asking you, is what do you prefer ?
And why ?
It's almost a survey, but not quite.
I'm not asking many specific questions, there's no a) b) or c), no right or wrong.
What I want to know is why you use the device that you use ?
What are you perceptions of the PPC operating system Vs the SP operating system.
I understand that each of these devices meet certain requirements for certain people, but I'd like a view, a global view on where we, as users/engineers/developers, see the direction of PPC & SP heading.
I'll start off:
I prefer Smartphones.
I receive alot of email, but do not have to respond to all of it immediately.
I spend a fair bit of time away from my desk.I don't do alot of web browsing, so screen real estate is not so much of an issue.
So a qwerty keyboard is not essential to me.
The smartphone Operating system is what suits me best, as I prefer a small form factor and would rather not use a stylus.
The smartphone I'm currently using is an imate SP5, MotorolaQ.
I have in the past used:- SP2, SP3, XDAII, JAM, PDA2K, JASJAR, KJAM, JAMin, Motorola MPX/MPX220. ( and some others that I can not remember )
I have used many devices, as you can see.
To me, the SP5 is a standout device.
It does exactly what I want.
So, please, spare some time and tell me why you like what you like.
Thanks.
Nice to have someone with the same curiosity as me
Take a look at this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=55256&highlight=
Anyway, I'll have my say.
I prefer the PDA phone. If you were to get the smaller version (e.g. Magician, Wizard sized) phone, it doesn't make much of a difference in terms of size and weight as to compared to smart phone.
For PDA phone, the screen may be big, but the size is not the most important thing that I had in mind, rather it is the touch-screen that is what most attract me.
However, smart phone are within the area of my consideration as I've been with normal keypad entry phone for quite a long period of time that I seems to have better input speed on a keypad than of any other method (including virtual keypad).
However again, as most of the PDA applications (of which may not be useful to me) are design with touch screen in mind, I'm quite reluctant to use a non-touch screen version of the WM5 as to avoid incompatibility. Unless there is a system of consideration of non-touch screen (e.g. Symbian), then I may consider a smart phone.
Anyway, there are some application that you may not be using but good to have around, which only a touch screen can give you. Example, the scratch pad or note pad where you can scribble things on it, draw stuff as like a map to a location or a very very ultra quick note, which you cannot done without.
Anyway, I think the PDA makers should make best of both world (HTC is slow on this matter) like those you get from Asus, and the newly O2 stealth. For me, it would be better if you were to give me a keypad and a touchscreen rather than a qwerty and a touchscreen.
My view. Hope others will join in.
Well my opinion is similar to hanmin's.
At my work place I get to play with all kinds of WM based devices so I had a chance to try out SP5 an other smartphones.
Just scrolling through the endless menus using the keys gives me the feeling of luck of control and leaves me very annoyed (not to mention my thumbs haven't had this much workout since I last used my trusty old GameGear console - first color handheld from Sega). It is so much nicer to be able to just click on what you want.
Also the apps for Smartphone version always seem more constricted then their PPC counterparts. I like the robustness even at the cost of stability (some times).
Still, while I wouldn't give up my Jamin for anything less the a TyTN or better yet the soon to come ASUS 535 that will have it all (WIFI, BT, GPS)
I think Smartphones have their specific market.
Namely, people who don't want to carry a complex gadget, but need just a little more then a simple cell phone.
Although I think that as soon as some company incorporates push mail into a 'dumb' phone (just the outlook push, non of the other WM5 stuff) the Smartphones will loose their market share. Question is will MS let this happen...
Well that's right.
It's no so much a matter of "What features do I want?"
It's more, for me anyway, "What features do i need?"
I guess a stylus comes in handy in some instances.
But more often than not, I'm just answering calls, reading emails, responding quickly to those emails or sending sms.
And I love be able to just put the thing in my pocket, without the feeling of having a brick in there.
I really don't like the belt holsters.
Having said all of this, I've just started using one of these
http://www.1gadgets.com/images/products/pda/hpipaqhw6965.jpg
...and I'm quite liking it.
Because !
I can use it and not have to get out the stylus if I don't want to
It's much improved from the previous ipaqs, in that it has the soft keys now on the front, which make things 100% accessible ( along with qwerty keyboard ) with out the need for getting the stick out !
It also has a built in GPS receiver, so I'd say this devies has everything
HP 6965?
That thing is almost the size of the Universal, talking about a brick.
But to each his own.
One thing I forgot to mention: I think Asus have the right formula with the P525. It's a full PPC but with a phone pad (basic candy-bar form factor) and only slightly bigger than SP5. I found that with proper T9 there is no need what so ever for a full QWERTY keyboard, even for those who don't like using the stylus.
Hi guys,
Well for me,i had a compact(magician)which was small for a pda but big for a phone,
it suited my needs but when i changes depts at work and found myself away mon-fri living in hotels,
the compact went wrong so i used the chance to risk a chnage, i then went to an exec suited me perfectly,alhto' a bit put off due to size iw as able to use as a mini laptop,for email web browesing and moslty msn messngers so a large screen and keyboard were perfect and i learned to live with and love the exec and also pop in my pocket when done unlike a laptop
so for me depends on your needs, for me at the mo wel think il get the flipphone htc next,then use that as a phone.sms,email and keep the exec for weekends away and when i need a mp3.broweser wtc wtc just chuck it in a bag and go
so id like best of both worlds tbh
Today's pocket-pc phones have reached a size that doesn't make them significantly more cumbersome than smartphones (in my opinion). Following from that fact, I have to say I prefer the full-blown functionality of the PPC phone in my pocket.
Simple!
levenum said:
HP 6965?
That thing is almost the size of the Universal, talking about a brick.
But to each his own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using it because my SP5 is in for repair.
It got stuck in headset mode.
Did a hard reset, even reflashed the ROM !
Still started up in headsetmode, couldn't use the phone without earplugs.
Warranty job
Well, first of to say, good taste, being you were a user of the MPX series like me .
Well for me, I prefer the PPC. The smartphone cannot do enough for me. The PPC is powerful, touchscreen, HUGE screen, more customizable. And there is more software for it. Plus I need the hardware keyboard most PPC include now.
I suggest you use the Motorola MPX300 if you want a "SMALL" pocket pc. If was great for me when I use it, but I gave it away at work.
I started with the XDA2i, loved it (except the occasional freeze) as it had the functinality I needed.
I use the Sync feature to keep on top of my calendar and contacts while also bein able to check the web and download e-mail at the same time. The large screen allowed a good use of Tom Tom Navigator which is vital for me as I tend to work all over the country.
I recently upgraded to XDA Mini and find the actual qwerty keypad a much better way of using the system than the stylus. All in all, with the Windows Mobile package I'm more likely to be able to link with my Windows PC (especially with the transfer of Word/excel docs and the use of Outlook) than the potential issues of cross o/s synchronization. I love the XDA Mini. as it suits me perfectly and saves me carrying 2 devices (shame I can't get a cradle for the XDA to sit on the bike with TomTom)
I started off using an mpx200, then the mpx220 and they were good, lightweight, stylish, and packing windows mobile which was great for checking emails and running low level apps.
Like alot of users I then upgraded to the XDA Mini and havent looked back, the larger screen, the capacity for more features, for better applications and also whilst I dont use the features as often, the ability to turn a pocket pc into a media centre of sorts is appealing.
Overall for me at the moment the main reason behind my recent purchase of a TyTN was due to the keyboard. The jasjar was more machine then I needed once I had left my previous job, but going to a 6828 I missed the keyboard, and thats then where the TyTN stepped in.
In any case I think these devices will become more converged themselves in the future and the line between smartphone and pocket pc will diminish, in one part because of the pocket pcs becoming more functional yet lighter and cheaper and also in particular with the next version of Windows Mobile which is meant to unify the two platforms.
my view
Well the world is surely moving towards a large screen vga display device which fits snugly in ones pocket ,I use a o2 XDA IIs and the range it offers in usablity is terrific.just dont go by the weight in grams and so on ,see if a device can do all your work and still comfortably slip into your shirt pocket well ,this form factor will be the future of all phone at some point of time.I would say a 4 to 4.5 ich screen with all the essential keys built around the phone and many are soft keys on the screen like the phone dialer.so what is today a smartphone will morph into a shirtpocket PC one day.Just imagine such a device with an intel duo processor running at 3 ghz and all the apps.on a note book,well this will be the future pocket PC phone one day very soon!!
Mukund
India
I am all for pocket pc's as opposed to Smartphones. I started out with a small PPC6700 and then decided that all the features of an Xda Exec would better fit my lifestyle. I was mainly attracted towards it because of the full qwerty keyboard (none of that tiny crap where you cant press the buttons properly) and the VGA screen.
Now I am working where I need to have a second line so at first I thought I would get a smartphone to complete the pair but after better analyzing the situation there is no way I can go without a touchscreen anymore. Im thinking a Exec and Artemis combo
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/what.s-w...ow-wm7-and-wm8-are-going-to-fix-it-333536.php
Very interesting article
Wow, that was a great article! The author hit his points right on the head. Sounds like WM8 will be the one to go for, however who knows how long that will take to come out.
Also, in the meantime HTC has to get their heads out of their asses and release some quality and speedy hardware! What the hell happened to the OMNi, the Universal successor?! There's still not a decent phone that can replace it yet, and the Uni is over 2 years old! On the other hand, the i-Mate Ultimate 9502 looks like a decent piece of hardware (spec-wise) but its ugly as sin and the build quality will most likely be lower than HTC...I also hear that i-Mate is in financial trouble now too...
Oh well, I have finally completed the process of flashing a new WM5 ROM that I'm happy with, and my Uni is working great for now. I just hope that the future looks good for WM8 and HTC...I'll be sitting in my waiting chair for now, to see how this all develops over time.
well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile#Photon_.282009.29
wm7 will be out next year so it could take awhile before wm8 come around
The article is so sad. I have been using WM for years and it does everything I want and more. Every point the guy makes is easily fixable with any task manager, there are heaps or free ones.
A non power user dosen't care if the apps close or not.
Iphone is all about the hype, anything that it does WM has been doing for 10 years.
Thats how I feel too. I have very little problems but a new OS is always exciting. I know I was losing my mind the first time I found Faria's Crossbow for the wizard. That was my first taste of windows mobile 6 and it was great.
I almost wanna check out the ETEN x800. I havent seen any in the states. But im gonna keep my eye out. I love my Herm200 but hey thats got the memory of a 8925 and I think its like 500.
scar45 said:
There's still not a decent phone that can replace it yet, and the Uni is over 2 years old!
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Click to collapse
I think I'll go back to the separated-device route. The iPAQ 214 for the workhorse, quality PDA and the Nokia N95 for the phone + GPS + camera + 3D hardware-accelerated gaming machine + HSDPA modem + push mail client.
scar45 said:
On the other hand, the i-Mate Ultimate 9502 looks like a decent piece of hardware (spec-wise)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too bad it's only PXA270-based... already outdated. A no-go for me. Why would I buy a non-PXA310-based device in 2008, when the iPAQ 214 already has the new CPU?
@Menneisyys
I think you may have made a tiny error, the iMate 9502 is the ugly one with a Qualcomm MSM7200 processor.
njakobs said:
The article is so sad. I have been using WM for years and it does everything I want and more. Every point the guy makes is easily fixable with any task manager, there are heaps or free ones.
A non power user dosen't care if the apps close or not.
Iphone is all about the hype, anything that it does WM has been doing for 10 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to get into a WM vs iPhone debate, but I disagree. I have about every iteration of WM device and still choose the iPhone on a daily basis. I am not really a mac user or care about any of the hype, for me it is simply a great device and os. Yes, WM can do most of the things the iPhone can, but not with anywhere near the same ease of use (i.e. can anyone figure it out), speed (no task manager needed with a 600+Mhz processor) screen clarity (see it in sunlight!), touch screen responsiveness (capacitance vs resistance) accelerometer for auto landscape of the browser, pictures and iPod, and the amazing build quality. I won't even go into the applications and how amazingly intuative they are. To make my Touch XL or Tinity work even close to my iPhone it takes over ten added applications that don't always work together. If you think the iPhone is only hype, you likely have not spent any time with one - it's addicting. My point is simply to state that, as a WM user the iPhone has raised the bar both on the hardware and software side and I hope it is not years before Microsoft and the manufacturers catch up.
2manyphones said:
Not to get into a WM vs iPhone debate, but I disagree. I have about every iteration of WM device and still choose the iPhone on a daily basis. I am not really a mac user or care about any of the hype, for me it is simply a great device and os. Yes, WM can do most of the things the iPhone can, but not with anywhere near the same ease of use (i.e. can anyone figure it out), speed (no task manager needed with a 600+Mhz processor) screen clarity (see it in sunlight!), touch screen responsiveness (capacitance vs resistance) accelerometer for auto landscape of the browser, pictures and iPod, and the amazing build quality. I won't even go into the applications and how amazingly intuative they are. To make my Touch XL or Tinity work even close to my iPhone it takes over ten added applications that don't always work together. If you think the iPhone is only hype, you likely have not spent any time with one - it's addicting. My point is simply to state that, as a WM user the iPhone has raised the bar both on the hardware and software side and I hope it is not years before Microsoft and the manufacturers catch up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you are right in a lot of aspects. However, Apple's flaw (and quite possibly the iPhone's downfall) is the lack of capability for the power users. Both my mom and my brother have iPhones so I have had plenty of chances to mess around with them. Not only did I not find it addictive, but after using it for 10 minutes, I just put it down and started messing around with my Blue Angel (now 3 years old and running WM6). I personally consider myself a medium (on the salsa scale ) power user of WM, but after watching a couple of YouTube videos and scrolling through album covers with my fingers while tilting the device back and forward, I started thinking: "well, now what?"
There are numerous advantages of iPhones over WM devices and vice-versa, but the article is mainly comparing the WM interface with the iphone's interface, and that is what this is all about. M$ interfaces have been progressively getting worse over the years (or at least not getting any better), while Apple completely hit a homerun with their interface. This sole fact gave birth to the future of WM. If you do not believe me, check out the "development and hacking" section of this forum and tell me how many new UIs you can see floating around. I personally have 4 in my device (FreeStyle, PointUI, iTask (came out yesterday), and Slither's Cube.
Hopefully, they will be able to do something based on what is out there (i.e. HTC X-Button (true closing any app), PointUI, PocketCM, TCPMP, etc, etc...). But make no mistake, there is a lot to be done to our devices, and hopefully M$ truly knows about it and are planning to do something about it...
Long Live XDA-Devs!!!!
another thing with iphone which may work agenst it in eu and asia is lack of t9 not very fast to write sms's in 10sec
heck here kids write sms's on their phones even in school under the table so the teacher dont take their phones even if the iphone keyboard is easier to use the defualt ms tiny keyboard phone pad and normal phones got a better chance of being used "blindfolded"
I do agree, the WM UI sucks by default and the usability leaves a lot to be desired. The good thing is that almost anything is possible. Luckily HTC and the devs of this site have fixed a huge number of WM flaws. My Touch was pretty usable out of the box. The devs here improved it even more by adding PocketCM for example. I just flashed the Shadow Wm 6.1 rom yesterday and it's damn fast, like having a new phone.
I would like a better browser and a more finger friendly UI. PointUI looks very promising but still has some issues. We'll get there, it just takes a while.
I do think WM has made big improvements over the years though. I remember my first WM phone (Orange SPV, Smartphone 2002), it was the worst phone I ever had although it did have some nice things at the time. I swore I would never ever buy a WM phone again. This summer I fell in love with the Touch and keep tinkering with it.
Rudegar said:
another thing with iphone which may work agenst it in eu and asia is lack of t9 not very fast to write sms's in 10sec.....
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Very good point Rudegar, another reason the iPhone will never fly in Asia is the lack of stylus for writing Chinese characters. MANY people who buy a touchscreen devicedo so exclusively so they can handwrite characters. The iPhone is going to have to change a lot for that to happen. Really, people shouldn;t think about the iPhone so much. It's going to probably never even make it to the asian market, which frankly is such a large market that US iPhone sales don't even make a difference. The real powerhouses are going to continue to be the people who dominate the asian handset markets.
Hi... noob here
I want to buy a new phone but i want to be able to upgrade to WM7 when it comes out [i know i can depend on xda for that ].
I like the Diamond but i am a little scare of the low battery life and the not so fast UI [TouchFLO3D], that is why i thought about buying Jade, better battery life and faster UI.
Which one do you think i should buy?
when windows mobile seven come out it will have different hardware specs and it will run off of a different windows ce seed.....
Its a long way off (windows mobile 6.5 will be out first) and as i previously hinted everything will be changing when it comes out.... there is a chance that none of the phone out will fully support windows mobile seven when it comes out.
If i were to guess the one that would be supported though, i would go with the touch pro or touch hd
joel2009 said:
when windows mobile seven come out it will have different hardware specs and it will run off of a different windows ce seed.....
Its a long way off (windows mobile 6.5 will be out first) and as i previously hinted everything will be changing when it comes out.... there is a chance that none of the phone out will fully support windows mobile seven when it comes out.
If i were to guess the one that would be supported though, i would go with the touch pro or touch hd
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why touch pro but not diamond?
theyre the same thing.
just touch pro has hardware keyboard...
thats true i wouldn't say one over the other except my personal prefence to the hardware keyboard.
Most just looking at the windows mobile seven "specs" that have been leaked or put out i can see these phones as far as hardware wise being most prepared (g sensors, light sensors, they have capacitive sreens (capabale of multi-touch) along with there classic pressure screens.... ect)
of course i have no way of proving any of this, its all just my own opinion on the matter of which phones i think are most prepared.
actually they claimed that new hardware will be needed.. so.. well... new hardware will be needed, most probably
From what I glean from reading blog posts about WM7 it seems as though touch and g-sensor are going to be major parts of the OS. Based on the assumption of using an OS that is built around touch, I would go for the biggest screen you can get...the Touch HD.
I would also agree with above that WM7 is a long way off and will prolly require new hardware, so you should get the phone that does that you need it to do now, and worry about the upgrade later. I just don't feel that WM7 is close enough to be a deciding factor in what device to get. In that vein, I again highly recommend the HD. After a week of heavy use I have reached for the stylus about 5 times, and I type faster on the screen with two thumbs using touchpal faster than I can on the tiny, tiny little keys on the Touch Pro keyboard. One thing not to be overlooked with virtual keyboards is the error correction and prediction software that catches mistypes really well. THe Diamond screen is just to small, and in my opinion it runs slow and laggy compared to the HD. I am also really pleased with the HD battery life and the near perfection of TF3D out of the box.
I'm a two year Kaiser user and have been happy with it generally. But the small screen and resolution, plus sluggish CPU is making me want to upgrade.
However HTC (and seemingly other manufacturers) seem to be shifting all UI interaction to the screen only (practically). I know I'm not the only one saddened by this, as d-pads and jog dials have their place and offer guaranteed responsiveness and precision which no screen tech can easily match. Unless you have fingers that look like stylii and a permanently steady hand.
Anyway, I'm just interested to hear if there are other people out there wishing for a Touch Pro 3 / Leo / Kaiser hybrid? Nice big screen, Snapdragon but a little d-pad squirrelled away at the bottom and jogger on the side. I wouldn't mind the phone being a bit longer to make it all fit.
Oh and I'm a business user and can appreciate that on a device like the Leo aimed more at the mass-market, the missing buttons aren't so important. But I think the Touch Pro line could do with them.
More than agree!
hardware keyboard is a must for me also, 2 lines of production I can see:
One for more multimedia non professional use like Leo and the second with more business capabilities like the keyboard
I´m sure TP3 will come out with larger screen, snapdragon and more surprises, but we have to wait at least 6 months for that.
just my opinion
Here some possible options:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=556749
i agree completely !
one of the things that i hate about mobile phone design is that everyone thinks that to make a better phone than the iphone you have to copy it rather than take the best ideas and improve on them.
i'm eagerly awaiting news of the touch pro 3 (rather than the touch hd2 / leo) because a hardware keyboard is important to me - i'm hoping that they'll include a scroll wheel and d-pad like my old kaiser in a form factor of my current xperia with a decent processor and the latest version of tf3d. they're all htc devices so it shouldn't be too hard ...
I agree, too. I still use my iPaq 210 daily not only because of the 4in screen, but for the dpad. It just doesn't feel like a pda without one. I would actually prefer phones to come wit jog dials on the side, but that's just a personal preference. How are we supposed to get anything done without them? I recently got a TD2, and while i like it, i don't think I will ever have it replace both my phone and PDA for lack of buttons. The main reason my BA was used so long was for all of its buttons.
I'm surprised to see people sticking up for jog dials -- I'd argue that the dial on my Kaiser is terrible, and WM doesn't handle 'em well anyways.
Dpads are nice, though. I'm particularly fond of the "stealth" pad on the Touch Pro.
At the same time, they're getting less and less useful. As more and more apps are designed to be finger-friendly, the usefulness of the dpad will decrease. I already find myself using it much less than I did, say, two years ago.
I agree that they are being used less in programs, but honestly how could you like the touch pro dpad? It is probably the worst i've ever used
typo said:
As more and more apps are designed to be finger-friendly, the usefulness of the dpad will decrease. I already find myself using it much less than I did, say, two years ago.
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Finger friendliness is one thing, but buttons just can't be beaten in some cases. E.g. I use Profimail for email and when replying, I often need to position the text cursor (?) at the very top. If I do this with a finger it's very tricky to get it in the right place. Or positioning the cursor between the words for adding / removing characters etc. is easier with a D-pad. Or when walking and wanting to do things on the phone without giving the full concentration you'd need by focussing on and positioning your finger on the display.
I agree though the usefulness is decreasing but I just don't think it will ever decrease to the point the D-Pad should be removed, but HTC obviously do.
But people are concentrating on the benefits of faster cpus and forgetting the drawbacks of slower input.
I have this marketing class and my group is deciding to create an advertising for WM7. I'm asking you guys for your opinion on why WM wasn't as successful as the iphone? What were the issues is because they only targeted professionals and developers. Also why do you think WM7 will be successful because its going be more commercial oriented too all?
I really appreciate any responses thanks a lot.
have a look here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=605
Though i'm looking for peoples opinon on why they didnt like old WM..
KidTech said:
I have this marketing class and my group is deciding to create an advertising for WM7. I'm asking you guys for your opinion on why WM wasn't as successful as the iphone? What were the issues is because they only targeted professionals and developers. Also why do you think WM7 will be successful because its going be more commercial oriented too all?
I really appreciate any responses thanks a lot.
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Was it really less successful than iphone? windows mobile has been around way longer. I am guessing combining all of the devices with windows mobile vs how many devices with iphone os windows mobile will come out on top.
Very briefly:
1) Inconsistent performance and freeze prone. Sometimes it is okay for days, sometimes I feezes 20 times a day.
2) Slow. Microsoft was too relaxed when specifying minimum hardware requirements. Hardware vendor did'nt want to beef up the hardware because they try to keep the profit high.
3) Passive screen was no match for capacitive touch screen
4) User interface was based on desktop windows - not optimised for finger use.
5) Most programs have ugly user interface.
6) Many programs no longer works in newer ROM. Too easy to pirate the software so software vendors not motivated to update them.
7) iPhone's application store was a game changer. There are now 185,000 applications to choose from. MS was not able to put together something similar.
8) iPhone's firmware support and upgrade was impeccable. In contrast, window phone vendor almost never support any upgrade. XDA ROM cook had to do this job for them. I think it''s fair to say that without XDA, winmo would have died much much earlier. Ironically, MS didn't express any thanks to the people here. In fact they even tried to threaten them with legal action in the beginning.
9) iPhone has far better ecosystem of accessories such as speaker system that allows you to dock the iPhone.
10) User interface design of iPhone is hard to match. Not just because it uses passive screen and does pinch and zoom. Some applications also use true multitouch UI such as two or three fingers swipe and touch for webpage navigation, thus making it really enjoyable and easy for the user. The keyboard accuracy and forgiveness is great. Webpage scroll down for example, is 100% vertical without having any slight left or right movement. Size of controls, size of text, colors, are all done right. It is easy to accurately click on even extremely tiny link on webpage without being any need to be accurate. In short, everything feels right and works right.
11) MS took too long to react, and did too little too late. Worst, they became very confused.
I was honestly a person who absolutely wanted to stick with MS and had despite iPhone when it was first released. Who wanted a phone with no third party sofotware, right? But then, when things became to change, MS was still complacent, and arrogant. I always told myself that WM7 would blow iPhone away very very soon, so be patient. Then when WM7 was delayed again and again, and when I saw how crappy the new desktop in 6.5 was, I began to doubt the capability of MS and begin exploring iPhone. The other important factor that drove me away was when I saw MS not knowing the direction by pursuing WM7, Zune, and Pink phone simultenously, and that made me lose confidence in MS significantly.
Winmo does have things to its favour though. For example: You have the chance to select the style of phones exactly to your taste. E.g. having hardware keyboard, having hugh or smaller screens, having flash in the camera, having higher megapixel camera. HTC also did a splendid job with its TouchFlo/Sense UI, and in hiding the ugly OS as much as possible from the end user. Unfortunately, the moment you start using your applications, all the ugly UI come back in its full force. Also, Sense UI is not very customizable or flexible for the end user beyond just hiding the unwanted tabs. So, unless your requirements are more or less totally satisfied by the functions of features on TouchFlo/Sense, then you'll still be dealing with the old ugly stylus based user interface.
Winmo is considered to be extremely attractive to people with technical skills to cook/flash ROMs, and for people who wish to keep using the programs they had developed for it. For the ordinary users who just want to get things done easily, quickly, reliably and also with lots of fun, iPhone seems to be able to cater to what they were looking for better.
Hope this give you something to write about.
Cheers.