Database Info

Cleaning up the Wizard Forum

Dear all,
Due to the proliferation of new ROM's, the Wizard forum is in need of a bit of housekeeping. The mods cannot do this alone, so we are asking for your help.
1) The four most used kitchens have been stickied for the moment and questions regarding any ROM's you cook based on these kitchens should be posted in the appropriate thread. Please do not start a separate thread. Anichillus Core Professional kitchen is also found in the Development and Hacking forum since it is used for multiple devices and is beyond the scope of many basic users. Users beware. I may de-sticky the kitchens upon further discussions with the mods, but right now the structure will stand as it is.
2) On the same note, I'm asking for kitchen authors to notify me or other mods concerning useless posts in these threads (e.g. Why didn't you include "x" application? or posts that are inflammatory or non-technical in nature). They will promptly be deleted as we shouldn't have to wade through 20 posts of BS to get to relevant tech info.
3) All of the kitchens stickied are based wholly or in part on Bepe's tools and are of the same basic architecture. Therefore no more kitchens will be stickied unless they are truly unique or offer a substantially more comprehensive interface.
4) Also, it's sometimes better for a lot of people to refine one ROM than for a few people to refine a lot of ROM's. I know there are a thousand aspiring cooks out there right now since the kitchens have been released. You may be tempted to release your own ROM to the masses either because you think it's a great ROM or because you want to be known around the board. Resist the temptation. Unless your ROM offers a very innovative user experience (e.g. Touch), it is not likely to get a huge following and might just cause more confusion for the non-developers on this board, you might do better to try to collaborate with some fellow developers in creating a very good ROM.
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to). Some people have repeatedly posted in this forum despite the fact that their posts had nothing to do with Windows Mobile 6 specific issues on the Wizard (i.e "My Herald..." or ("Do you have this software from a Nokia?"). We will issue 3 warnings through PM's but after that you might be up for a temporary ban. This will only happen if you're a repeat offender. Heck we've all posted in the wrong place at one point or another. If possible we may move the post to a more appropriate location but it would save everyone a lot of work and aggravation if the posts are made in the correct forum.
I hope this helps a bit. If you have suggestions for how we can make this place better, please air them here. If you have a complaint with a mod, please PM me first. I don't like public conflict and most of you don't either.

jwzg said:
Dear all,
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to)..
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not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).

I agree that a strong hand is needed. For this i suggest that there should be a special part in the forum where to move threads that have no replies for hmm...30 days ...?
I don't know too much stuff about forums but i think that would mean a nasty job for you guys so...just a suggestion. Or better...delete them or move them to an sort of recycle bin.
Regarding switching to a new upgraded forum, i think that would be an immense hard work also and it will leave the community off line for few days. It may be needed to come to that soon but that's not a big problem.
But i agree that allowing people to delete their own posts would be nice. But on the other hand, considering hours i spent here reading, i kinda got used to this look
I will PM you with posts to delete but beware that i may be more strict than you and i don't want to waste your time...so i will filter myself.

And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...

nothin said:
not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
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You are reading this wrong. I had about four or five posters who after two or three moved threads and a couple of PM's continued to post totally irrelevant posts in the Wizard Mobile 6 thread. I this was aimed at repeat offenders and not at the occasional screwup. By they way, you can modify your post or ask a mod to move it if you like. Not a big deal.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all, but I'm not trying to be nice either. I just see the same old builds with different package combo's that anyone could make with the kitchen and a little ingenuity. However, folks like Zoki and the-equinoxe have done some fine things with the touch software that are truly innovative and add substance to the user experience. I for one have partially adapted the T-Mobile wing OEM package to the Wizard (yes camera too, but the image is transposed and my-faves doesn't work). That's true ROM cooking and not just throwing a few packages into a cooker and presto.
It is not "us" against them. It's those who have a bit more experience actually doing our best to take this forum up another level instead of settling for ssdd.

shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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I'm working on this...

all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them

shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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Fixed by admin. Thanks for the heads up.

ANTC said:
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
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I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.

mfrazzz said:
I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
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true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at

Gulp - I hope I didn't start something we will all regret with my post "Why all these new WM6 ROMs?" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=313781
Let us not forget that apart from a very few idiots this is a great place to be. I have learnt a lot from this forum considering that I do not have a background in computing.
It has even stimulated my interest to the extent that I have assembled my own computer. Didn't save me money and my wife cannot understand it but I have ended up with exactly what I wanted which a store built machine could not have given me.
I hope you understand the analogy.
Let's just make sure that "We don't throw out the baby with the bath water".

No, you didn't start anything scotch whiskey that hadn't already been brewing a bit. I think my modified OP is a little nicer, but still gets the point across.

ANTC said:
true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
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I agree with both you and mfrazzz.
What if someone doesn't want to use the latest version of a ROM, they don't like some changes or whatever, they will need those older threads for reference material. Also I notice lots of people asking questions, only to be referred to older threads. There isn't any use reinventing the wheel so to speak.
I think a good idea would be for developers (or just real supportive people) to make kind of an FAQ for some of these older versions, a "best of" list of questions and answers. It can be posted in the forum, it can be on some website somewhere, or in the XDA FTP, whatever. Not only would it give people a good place to refer to, but it might also eventually lead to a cut-down of basically the same questions.
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3

jonflow said:
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
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Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.

I don't like this talk
Everybody should have the right to publish his work, no matter what hi did.
The rest will judge his work and he will learn something. Only those who didn't do anything can't understand this.
Old topics should remain, I like to jump back to learn something, for new members old topics is a must.
If you must do something to show us you're administrator rights, do something good, like option to close the thread.

Zoki, no one said members can't publish their work. I just honestly believe more of it should be along the lines of what you did with the touch stuff. I truly admire your work because it was bleeding edge (still may be) and that's developing which is why this board exists. I'm not trying to flatter you here to gain your support either. It's just when people throw your name all over a splash screen it doesn't really make it their work since most all of the ROM's here are cooked using kitchens from other authors with packages from other members and yes, even HTC. If that sounds big-brother-ish, it's not intended that way. Just make sure credit is given to the quite literally hundreds of people who've made this possible. We're already having problems in other forums right now with people asking for donations in return for tech support for ROM's they've cooked with other's tools. That is one of the many issues we're trying to be proactive about here.
Regarding closing threads, I'm not an administrator, and they have chosen not to give OP's the rights to close their threads. If you want your thread closed, please PM me and I have the rights close it quickly. If you want someone else's thread closed, well, you can request it, but it may or may not happen.
BTW, the old threads were not deleted, and I strongly believe they shouldn't be. Admin simply made a mistake in a setting, and all of the old threads are visible as per our request.
As a mod, I'm just trying to do my best to make sure that we have an orderly forum and we are developing, which is the forum's purpose.

hey jwzg we aren't really calling you a bad person, we know you're looking out for us I agree though, the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens. It would be better for people to just explain what was in a new ROM scheme they came up with, and it would encourage more people to start learning how to make their own ROMs, therefore making them more intellectual in this particular field, which is a good thing. knowledge is power. But hey its just my opinion!

jwzg said:
Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
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just to let you know that the REAL develepor regrets now releasing the rom kitchen tools....

jonflow said:
the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens.
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sorry i am noone for you all, my "senior" member status sounds like joke but...
everything is the same imo now, also, theres no real help lately; only people that can have answers are like "how to flash my phoooone", "did i brickeeeeed?" etc.
there's no real customisation of "custom" builds.
seems like checking some oempacks' ticks is making these current OSes special...
i can't get an answer for my problems, despite i tend to help people someOM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322228
i spent MONTH to make this, and what?
nobody wants to help.
ok, clean this forum up, you may remove my babbling now....
everything i know bout wizard customisation is from that site...but now, in "touch" soft times, there's nothing that makes wizard better, just nothing.
it became playground for kids or what...
sorry for funny english, i cant do better...
i want to say thank you to:
Faria,
Anichillus,
mattk_r
jwzg
double_ofour
zoki
and many many more people that made me ..learning, not copying.
allright, time to watch another touch skin post...

Myself i've been reading most of the time, only lately did i start posting to test some bugs in builds. The issue at hand is a double edged sword. Yes i solved many problems wading through old posts. But i also solved a lot of issues just reading an entire thread. I will never be able to create a kitchen but it sure is nice knowing that when i want to i can build a rom entirely to my liking. But indeed to many Build threads these day are the same. And most of the issues handled, but then spread across multiple build threads, are mostly about the same problems. Mainly issues with specific base roms and aplication incompatibilities. I think a lot of the solving of these issues is slowed down because of the spread through topics. Maybe setting up a rule that Roms that get posted and aren't updated or have any fixes posted should not be taken seriously and can be deleted. This way less Rom versions circulate the thread and only higher quality builds by Chefs are available. Also a good rule might be to have the cooks post more info about the sources and tools used for their builds, like Kitchen used, Base used, Patches used oem packages used. So new users more easily understand that no Rom has no history. It also takes away the polish of parading with your ego. Maybe even changing the main wizard topics into
1. Kitchen Development
2. How To & Troubleshooting
3. Rom Builds testing
4. Custom Made Software & tweaks
5. Hardware and Accesoires
6. To be Deleted (either move topics or delete them when re/placed into new main topics)
Then indeed phase out unneeded old posts if the information is passed into new threads that accordingly aknowledge the sources.
What i'm trying to say is, to change the perception a bit more that this is not a Technical support site and more of a doing site.
I think the main topics can set an expectation and the current ones don't give the impression that flashing is not kids biznz.
Also it looks like there are to many uploads of the same home screens, software etc. (i think even i am quilty of that).
I'm all for a big clean up but with the focus on retaining the history and origin as much as possible even if it means loosing a few classic threads.
You as admin can set the tone and expectation and a clear message should be sent to junior cooks that collaboration is what drives this site.

Standardised form for bugs so Devs can glance at?

While I haven't been on XDA as long as some other members, I have gone through the mammoth threads that are Dude's and Cyanogen's and its just flooded with spam or often un-useful information most of the time.
This is a development thread after all and for those running either experimental or unstable builds are beta-testing for everyone else. Now there's no harm in having a bit of chit-chat here and there to lighten things up but some issues seem to get lost amongst the ten's of posts just saying "Flashing now/issues after flashing a theme/etc".
They are experimental/unstable for a reason!
I was wondering though, if it would be beneficial to devs to have some sort of standardised form for bugs and issues. Yes I know we could probably use a wiki or support tickets offered on other sites, but generally many things get posted here on XDA first.
I was thinking of a simple list that users could copy and paste to make things easier to see at a glance and to improve on search hits. Something like this:
ROM Build:
Theme:
ROM Issue:
Issue Keywords:
Reproducible:
Wiped before install:
Re-installed/reflashed:
Logcat:
Searched for answer:
An example of a report as below...
ROM Build: Cyanogen 3.9.6
Theme: Stock
ROM Issue: Cannot run MyTracks (be specific as possible)
Issue Keywords: MyTracks ForceClose
Reproducible: Yes (put in steps)
Wiped before install: No
Re-installed/reflashed: Yes, re-installed MyTracks
Logcat: Attached/No
Searched for answer: Yes
It can be added to though so I'll leave it to you guys to offer up suggestions.
The "Issue Keywords" part should flag up easier during searches, so if you run a search for "Issue Keywords Mytracks Forceclose", technically speaking it should link to this thread.
What do you guys think? Its a longshot I know for most members to copy and paste before they reply but if it becomes a habit, maybe it will become easier for devs to track issues for themselves to prioritise or offer solutions.

FLASHING NOW
Kidding, I think a standardized form would be useful and I think any issue somone reports must have a logcat or it should be thrown out with the exception of phones that won't boot at all and a logcat can't be created. I think posts like "this don't work' are largely useless to developers.

lol I was reading through the Hero dev threads before and all I saw was one liners with FLASHING NOW/CAN'T WAIT/ROSIEEEE etc. While enthusiam is a fantastic thing, sadly more information is often needed to fix any issues that might pop up.
I don't expect, and neither should anyone else, a dev to read though 200+ pages of posts to only find that there are only a handful of issues that are actually ROM related and not solvable by other members with a little effort.

A general thread for a rom that's a little more open and a straight bug report thread would probably help all invovled maybe u can pm a few developers about this idea to see if there is any support for it.
Aso a moderator that can provide tight strict support of the bug thread to keep it on the striaght and narrow

I have suggested to the mods before about having a totally seperate section just for ROMs and that but it looks like it was debunked, along with having any new moderators for this place.
Which is a shame because a lot of threads and points do get lost amongst the often pointless posts that are made, which makes searching and reading them a chore.
I'm not sure what the moderator support is like for the Dream section, I've only seen Mikey being active in trying to establish any ground rules. Have offered my services though if required but will try to help out whenever I can.
I'll ask around though to see if devs would be interested in trying to standardise reports here on XDA and hopefully other members might follow suit before posting.

I really like this idea. It would be nice to have everyone on the same page. I would also like to see a feature where you HAVE to put your info in a sig. The hardest thing about helping people is lack of info. With this in place, everyone will be a lot happier to help then if you just said, "I have a problem" and expecting everyone to read your mind.
Good idea NeoBlade!
I second this idea.

Thanks! After all it just makes it easier for the people here, be it devs or helpful members, to diagnose and to figure out solutions when troubleshooting. Its the same process that I use when helping people with technical issues on computers - The more relevant info available, the easier it becomes to track.
Cuts out a lot of guesswork I find.
Enforcing it into your signature would be nice but from the looks of it, most people have put in the effort to display the latest info at least, not all though which can't be helped since its understandable.
At the end of the day, most of us are willing to help out others, as long as they put in a little effort too.

What about a bug tracker? Maybe not even something as formal as a bug tracker but something along those lines. We could set it up to force certain information before submitting a bug such as their current rom, a2sd setup, phone model, motherboard, etc. I am a web developer so if I get some extra time I could write something up pretty quick. Just a thought.

chuckhriczko said:
What about a bug tracker? Maybe not even something as formal as a bug tracker but something along those lines. We could set it up to force certain information before submitting a bug such as their current rom, a2sd setup, phone model, motherboard, etc. I am a web developer so if I get some extra time I could write something up pretty quick. Just a thought.
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most of the devs are using googlecode which has a bugtracker with it

There's a link to this in Cyanogen's Experimental thread
I think this is a great idea, so don't get me wrong, I just think it's more complicated than bug hunting.
A lot of what gets discussed sometimes isn't directly related to the ROM, but things like best swap methods and battery ussage do end up incorporated into the ROMs. Most people who post on these things do know what they're talking about and do make a contribution to the ROM, and other ROMs, too, and it necessarily stems from the discussion about the ROM, in my experience, most of the time.
In general, if I post, I try to address some sort of work around or solution to a problem that not everyone is having with the ROM. The fora aren't just for the ROM Devs, the rest of us read them, too, and get a lot out of them, despite the occaisional inanity.
If you go through the HTC Wizard ROM Forum, you'll see the same thing, and a ton more heated arguments. What happens as the ROMs progress, is that fewer bugs come up, and the fora get cleaned up right along with them.
What I might suggest is that people title their posts (perhaps be required to do so) with [Bug Report], [Request], [Solution], [Work around], [Comment], [Question], [Discussion], maybe [Misc.] to help sort through the parts of a forum. All of these parts are important enough, and mostly do contribute somehow to the results, which is a great ROM, but the process is people being in the discussion, and that's what's really going on. Wiktionary: forum I imagine if people did this, at least they would have to identify what it is that they're posting, which is where I see the problem. If people were required to think before they post by taking some sort of labelling action, they might second-guess themselves and save the keyboard for something more useful to others. At the least it would let anyone, devs included, filter.
It also might be handy if I could delete my own threads & posts that were errantly posted. We all have them somewhere. And people who post thier feelings rather than their cohesive, relevant thoughts will only be eradicated by educating the masses, so, pay your property taxes and find out what's going on with your local schools (we may be stuck for now, but there's always hope.).

Yeah there is an active bug tracker at googlecode already, but I can't really see many people actively taking the time to actually post there and fill in the relevant information.
I have no issue though with discussions in a thread as it adds character and can provide a friendly environment for people to help each other. More often than not, when people see others helping out, they would chime in too with a contribution.
I think Cyanogen though has killed off any compcache/linux swap discussions earlier on as he mentioned in his post that he didn't want to hear anymore of it And it has actually remained as so - There are plenty of such threads that exist already.
I agree though Janis with a structured standard title in their posts. It only takes a couple of seconds but can help people skim through what is banter and what issues might need looking at. I'll do so from here on it too (if only fast reply supports post titles!).
Would be nice if there was a notes/announcements section put up on certain sub-forums too outlining some form of post structure like what was mentioned. I'm more familiar with IPB/phpBB personally but I'm sure vBulletin supports it too.

Suggestion for [MOD]/[ROM] dev posts.

Of course, let me first pay my respects to the devs and their much appriciated efforts.
I was just doing my daily browse of the dream and sapphire forums and a few things occured to me that i wanted to share in case they warranted some real consideration by others.
Cross-device-roms
It seems that more and more lately, ROMs posted in the Dream forum would be just as appropriate in the Sapphire forum because they work on both platforms. I don't expect the mods want to double-post, then track both, but it doesn't seem efficient, nor a great idea to leave it to the users to create the new topics and link over. To help differenciate those ROMs and make searching easier, perhaps the subject line could say something like [dream/sapphire]?
Google/HTC-base
Another issue I've come across as a result of NEEDING full exchange support and wanting good integration (iow, not using market apps to get it), I've come to realize that HTC ROMs provide this and AOSP/Google ROMs don't. Now that I get this, I'm surprised to find that ROM subject lines don't declare which type of base was used (perhaps it's assumed/implied), but seeing [Google-base] or [HTC-base] (or something like that) would be incredibly helpful for folks like me.
User-rating-of-builds
Lastly, instead of wading through pages of posts to find out what others think of any given ROM, I'd love to see some sort of rating system and polls would be a good way to do this, but then I consider the versioning/release complication involved and wonder if that would be a bad idea implemented so simply, or if the poll could be reset with each release. This way it would be easy at a glance to see how happy/pleased/satisfied the users of a ROM are.
I'm sure many people can think of why any of these suggestions might NOT be a good idea, but there's no point building up this thread airing those concerns. If you're a dev/modder and you agree, just do what you think is best. If you're a user and you agree, see the attached poll and use it. Ideally, this post will die if nobody agrees and if they do, change will happen.
If you vote and that's not enough to bump the thread, maybe you should post with something simple like 'voted' to keep it alive.
Take care all.

rainabba said:
Of course, let me first pay my respects to the devs and their much appriciated efforts.
I was just doing my daily browse of the dream and sapphire forums and a few things occured to me that i wanted to share in case they warranted some real consideration by others.
Cross-device-roms
It seems that more and more lately, ROMs posted in the Dream forum would be just as appropriate in the Sapphire forum because they work on both platforms. I don't expect the mods want to double-post, then track both, but it doesn't seem efficient, nor a great idea to leave it to the users to create the new topics and link over. To help differenciate those ROMs and make searching easier, perhaps the subject line could say something like [dream/sapphire]?
Google/HTC-base
Another issue I've come across as a result of NEEDING full exchange support and wanting good integration (iow, not using market apps to get it), I've come to realize that HTC ROMs provide this and AOSP/Google ROMs don't. Now that I get this, I'm surprised to find that ROM subject lines don't declare which type of base was used (perhaps it's assumed/implied), but seeing [Google-base] or [HTC-base] (or something like that) would be incredibly helpful for folks like me.
User-rating-of-builds
Lastly, instead of wading through pages of posts to find out what others think of any given ROM, I'd love to see some sort of rating system and polls would be a good way to do this, but then I consider the versioning/release complication involved and wonder if that would be a bad idea implemented so simply, or if the poll could be reset with each release. This way it would be easy at a glance to see how happy/pleased/satisfied the users of a ROM are.
I'm sure many people can think of why any of these suggestions might NOT be a good idea, but there's no point building up this thread airing those concerns. If you're a dev/modder and you agree, just do what you think is best. If you're a user and you agree, see the attached poll and use it. Ideally, this post will die if nobody agrees and if they do, change will happen.
If you vote and that's not enough to bump the thread, maybe you should post with something simple like 'voted' to keep it alive.
Take care all.
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very good idea voted.

A request to all the devs here, about including info in first post.

This NOT ment to be *****ing, I AM grateful for all the great work being done, But i do WISH every single dev could include this in their first post in their ROMs thread:
-What the ROM is based on (HTC framework, ADP, ADP with Sense from Dream, Sense from Hero etc.)
->What works (or not) of:
* LED
* bluetooth
These are common problems with HERO ROMs, and if every dev posted this info, it would be great. For me non-LED= not usable, and for some periods of time (ie. when I'm driving much), so is no BT
->Included apps.
*Especially important are sms-spamming apps such as myfaves - coud be critical to know about.
->recommended compache settings, swapiness etc, what is used in ROM as standard for these values.
We see every Hero-thread filling up with questions about BT, LED, what HERO-version, and what framework, and whatnot. Taking 2mins to post this info could help save so much time,and so much spam/question in the ROM thread.
Apps added/removed and the other stuff is also higly relevant to non-HERO roms.
Again, this is constructive criticism aka a humble suggestion, not an angry demand from some jerk with e-penile problems. (Or so I'd like to believe, at least.)
If anyone has any suggestion as to what other info you would like to see in a ROM announcement? Post it here, maybe we can "help" the devs out by making a complete template we would like them to follow. Input from devs highly appreciated too, ofc.
I know there are toher things that shoul also be listed, such as SPL and radio required etc., although I believe almost everyone includes it. Most devs include most of the items on the list too, but many do not include all of it.
Also, I am sorry for posting this in this category, but this is where the ROMs are posted and the devs can see it.
I hope this thread has its place here. Different people are lokking for different things, and both the user and devs benefit from the user knowing what they get. (It would hopefully limit the number of "spam" questions from users if the first post contained all this information, we know many people are afraid of the search button. Also, it would be easier to wield the ban hammer on people whoe doesn't even bother to look at the simple list in the first post, and waste other peoples time.)
If a dev included enough information, ROM lists with information abut different ROMs would also be much easier to maintain for the good people making them.

It may make things more organized, but it means devs have to update the list, and pay less attwntion to -actual ROM development.
And in my opinion, a little trial and error never hurt anyone.

TermyJW said:
It may make things more organized, but it means devs have to update the list, and pay less attwntion to -actual ROM development.
And in my opinion, a little trial and error never hurt anyone.
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This is TRUE!
I so hope that Hero ROM's on donut are much more snappier! I'm addicted, I want a ROM to use for a few months! Hehe.

Yeah, it would be nice if there was a template developers could follow for posting. It would make thing's so much smoother.
Possibly in the title of the post have;
[ROM] [SENSE] "Title Here"
[ROM] [PULSE] "Title Here"
[ROM] [MOTOBLUR] "Title Here"
[ROM] [1.6] "Title Here"
[ROM] [1.5] "Title Here"

I agree with the OP there are times where i i can't flash 5 different ROMs in a day and i skip over some because of lack of info and screenshots. Maybe the community can build a template that the ROM devs can use?

damnitpud said:
I agree with the OP there are times where i i can't flash 5 different ROMs in a day and i skip over some because of lack of info and screenshots. Maybe the community can build a template that the ROM devs can use?
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Are you thinking about getting back into making themes?

not gonna happen

jubeh said:
not gonna happen
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word im too lazy

they already spend there time developing the roms, i dont think they have the time to make the "proper layout"

Binary100100 said:
Are you thinking about getting back into making themes?
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I have been playing around with some images, made changes for my own phone but haven't done much else. I did just get laid off from my job so if i go the unemployment route you will definitely see me more in these forums. If i can't find a job soon i plan on getting into Java programming(i have a few app ideas) and possibly making my own ROMs. But we have to see where the job market takes me.
To stay on topic, the devs do spend a lot of time dev'n and having a template in a txt file would make posting easier for them. I have made a few threads and i can tell you making a layout for a post isn't that easy and is not much fun. If we can make an empty template that they only have to fill in their info...they would be doing the same amount of work on the post, just easier cause its all laid out for them.
We would need a sticky for it and have the devs vote on it or something.

That's a great idea it would be so much easier plus people won't be trashing threads with dumb ass questions is this for G1? Does this work or does it still do that and so on....
I mean before they upload the Rom they know most of the bugs so just saying known issues r these and that would help and just knowing what's new in the release doesn't help just confuses most of the noobs here...I'm one of them.
A little off topic but I'm a recruiting officer in a PC gaming community and I review clan applications, there were times when main application was down so I just made a sticky Thread with a template of the application to fill up and post it as a new thread
I mean look all of the devs pretty much do that already anyhow, every thread they make look exactly as the other 1 we just need a clean template that they all could use and just made it as a sticky thread and lock it so every1 could use it.

Zarboz said:
word im too lazy
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If you're making a ROM and posting it on xda, you obviously want other people to use it.
If the first post is sloppy and not informative or up to date. Less people will use your ROM. Thus, less people will test it. Therefore, you won't be able to figure out the bugs. If you're sloppy with info, you'll lose, not us.
Something that should be standard:
A proper title like suggested earlier such as [ROM] [1.6 - Pulse] [******]
(none of that [ROM] ***MghtyMax 1.9.1*** "WHAT A FEELING!" stuff....Sorry, but it's just plain horrible.)
Another thing should be a list of features, things that work, things that don't.
Screenshots are also very nice and descriptive. A lot of new users might not know what Pulse, Hero, etc. looks like.
If you take the time to work on a ROM, you have the time to work on a nice looking first post. Don't half ass your work. It makes you look unprofessional.

I agree with the first poster, also MD5 hashes would be nice.

As damnitpud mentions, this would probably make it easier for devs, not harder. This is about *not* forccing them to make the proper layout themselves, but serve as a pre-made basis for them to fill in. In ready made bb-code ofc.
Since the mighty max-rom was brought up, this is noe ROM i did not download and flash immedeatly beacause I couldn't find info about BT working or not. Also would like to know if it were the SENSE from Dream or Hero. And some other details.
As I have time to sit down and flash my phone maybe two days a week, tops, I would like to know what I want to try beforehand. I also don't want to read four hundred post with questions that sometimes are answered in the first post, sometimes in the thread, sometimes not at all. But IF they had been answered in first post - and especially if it were in standard list that all/most devs used, it would be hard to miss it, and save a lot of stupid and/or lazy people nagging.
md5 hashes is absolutely something that should be on such a list, ohnoezmahfone. That is certainly lacking, and quite important for people with a good-for-nothing-ISP or net by 3G modem etc.

Someone make up a template. There will always be someone who will volunteer to do it for the developer.

All great ideas.
Especially for the sake of SEARCH.
Example:
I enter a search for "bluetooth working hero" and up pops 4000 unhelpful results most where 1000 noobs are asking if it works or not without doing the proper research in the prior posts.
An all informative 1st post would reduce this and the unnecessary flaming that follows (also part of results)
Also, it would also be real nice if everyone keep their personal lives to themselves.
Noone cares if your "flashing [other irrelavant ROM] now because BT aint working for Hero yet. This also shows up in results.
If I want you to kno whats on my device, i'll put it in my sig
I know i just made "BT working Hero" one more result longer [4001] but i had to vent. Sometimes searching can be very annoying and cumbersome.
Less results means less hassle for devs and users.
Once again, great ideas

Organizing the roms

Hey, can we possibly organize the ROMs in this section, if not in all of XDA already.
Make a thread and organize based on the base ROM, or based on the Developer or something. Its just so cluttered.
The way androidspin does it is great. I have webdev experience and am willing to help out.
Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but since it is related to ROM development, I thought it was relevant.

We need to have categories that separate rom types so eclair wont be in the same place as hero and we need mods or think tanks to be in its on sub forum too.

for me that is great idea

Too bad it won't ever happen. Seems like XDA doesn't give a crap about anything anymore...

I've been wishing that they were organized by types, (eclair, hero, etc.) for a long time now too.

+1 for organising by 'Flavour'

why reinvent the wheel when andriodspin does what you're looking for (including link to xda release threads)..?
further, maintaining a list like that (especially in vbulletin thread format) would be a huge chore that would require intimate knowlege of each and every rom that gets posted.
I used to maintain a list of ROMs in my stickied thread until there were more than a handful.
all that being said...if you want to maintain such a list, more power to you. I'm sure people would find it useful.

Agreed,
The problem is some of the roms here tend to get missed by Android spin, especially if they have just been released, or the dev does not use AS.
Also, this would be very beneficial to WinMo users not just Android users.
I am throwing the idea out there hoping that people are in agreement, and we can get XDA to allow us to start working on.
Rather than yet another thread, it would make sense to have a dedicated ROMS page.

alapapa said:
why reinvent the wheel when andriodspin does what you're looking for (including link to xda release threads)..?
further, maintaining a list like that (especially in vbulletin thread format) would be a huge chore that would require intimate knowlege of each and every rom that gets posted.
I used to maintain a list of ROMs in my stickied thread until there were more than a handful.
all that being said...if you want to maintain such a list, more power to you. I'm sure people would find it useful.
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Q4T.
Besides, if a DEV doesn't bother to post to sites that have lists like AS, who's fault is that, but the DEV.