Related
An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be told if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
oover the phone to who?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
You will have to call T-Mobile to get S-OFF. Also I was told it wold be in about a month, the same time as the EVO 3D
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
No offense, but one thing I've learned, reps don't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.
sakuul said:
An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be to if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this is true then this sucks...i wouldn't want to void my warranty for this.
Well this sucks. Hard.
Just have to wait and see, I read elsewhere where the s-off would not void your warranty, but flashing a custom ROM would.
Did the Rep say when the unlock for the bootloader would be available?
About a month. It's in the third post
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Now usually with any phone I wouldn't think twice...I would do this immediately.
BUT, since I've already returned one Sensation for problems, I do not want to risk voiding my warranty (in case I need it in the future for dust under the screen or something).
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
It makes sense that they'd want to get people to agree to it before they give s-off, that skirts U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how T-Mobile is going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning. I'll go buy a Nexus S, and deal with the lower res screen, slower processor, less ram, no memory expansion, pathetic build quality, and a screen I don't like so that I can do what I want with the device I purchase.
Oh and that Nexus S will be on AT&T, I pay for an AT&T family plan for my parents already, the only reasons I opened a T-Mobile account were to support local business (well the U.S. arm of T-Mobile and HTC at least) and to get the Sensation.
No Offense but sounds bull**** to me..stupid reps dont know what they are talkin about...thats like the presidents maid saying we are bombing russia tomm...Im sure HTC would risk all the bad cred this would cause after they just opened up the Dev section at HTC to a releationship with private DEVS...no way!! Within 2 weeks is my bet!! just long enuff so we dont return under the 30 days,, to be honest idk..it will get figured out by devs here and elsewhere and in the meantime im running a rom i was trying to get perfect on my OG EVO(RIP) for months..now its flawless and on roids!!,,JUST MY OPINION...NO FLAMES>>>
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.
There's a reason that hardware manufacturers are required to perform warranty replacements or repairs on devices regardless of the software being used. You'd never hear Acer or HP deny your request for warranty replacement of a bad motherboard simply because you wiped the pre-installed Windows OS for a Linux flavor.
That rep must be smoking some seriously good stuff, as well as be very ignorant of U.S. laws and regulations just to say something like that.
Come to think of it, I'll bet he works undercover for Samsung or Motorolla
_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is why they have a TOS - Terms of Service. They are not violating any US laws unless they contradict their own TOS. You know when you get your phone and on the manual there's a crap ton of fine prints? or once your phone is turned on and you have to check "I agree". If you took the time to read any of the information in those "TOS" or "policy" than you will understand that their behinds are definitely covered.
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
tigerz0202 said:
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If any of this is true at all. Than it seems they are going about it similar to getting your phone "unlocked" to go out of country. It's on a "by request" issue and if its in their TOS than if you want it. you abide by it.
mykoe817 said:
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
_kansei_ said:
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post. And I completely understand where your coming from. I can see HTC stance on this as I work with info-systems for businesses and what they are doing is pretty normal in terms of proprietary software/hardware. When I say proprietary I mean that this software is designed to work with specific hardware only.
Unlike windows/linux or other computer operating systems. Which are not proprietary in terms of hardware utilized. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Computer operating systems are designed to function with a wide range of hardware. Each OS is bundled with thousands of drivers. Also the resource of drivers available online. I work with lots of firewalls. All of which comprise of its own OS. That OS is only designed for that box only. If I mess with that OS, the whole box is no longer under warranty.
I wanna say its more of a privileged that HTC is unlocking their software giving users the privileged to do custom software and etc.
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
I second your comment about the HTC rep.
I'm not too worried. Even if this is true, SOMEONE here is bound to come up with a way to turn S-OFF despite T-mobile or HTC.
Problem here is I think your missing the point... The way I read the OP is that you have to call T-Mobile or whoever...not HTC to get S=OFF. Now correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like a T-Mobile stipulation...not a requirement from HTC. Which would be the "Documentation" another poster was talking about in another thread.
Seems some are jumping the gun by saying "Well if its hardware related ...blah blah; they should replace my phone under warranty." I don't think anyone disputes that. It's when you go and brick your phone with a bad flash or you can't follow directions etc..that that phone is "YOURS" and not for the carrier to eat the cost because you screwed up your phone & want a replacement.
If OP is true, I say its a Carrier stipulation not HTC because they already sold the phone to T-Mobile or whoever already and if your bricking the hell outta phones, HTC is gonna be doing great business with all of the warranty replacements to the Carrier...why would they care ...its the carriers losing money on bricked replacements and the carrier requesting more or less "stipulations" to keep track of people S=Off ing & rooting or flashing their phones.
mykoe817 said:
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave some thought to that before I posted. Driving, you have to prove you're at least slightly capable of not killing yourself and others behind the wheel for 5 minutes before they'll give you a license to kill --I mean drive (sorry, hit by a car while cycling recently, I'm still bitter). As a consumer in the U.S., there are laws at the federal and state level that protect our interests against the evil corporations, though only a little of course as those evil corporations have way more power in our government than we do.
It's not a privilege we earn like driving, it's one given to all of us.
Screw dealing with this, I'm getting an iPhone (kidding of course)
There's a firestorm going on in the international forum because, at least overseas, HTC's no longer providing warranty support for devices unlocked via HTCdev that have used non-HTC provided ROMs. Here's an e-mail exchange.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Da: Returns [mailto:[email protected]]
Inviato: mercoledì 2 maggio 2012 16:59
A: xxxxx xxxxxxxx
Oggetto: RE: Clove Return (RM120410473F)
Paolo
We are contacting you concerning the HTC One X which you returned to us due to there being a yellow tint on the display. As you are aware we sent the handset to the HTC service centre as it was not possible to have it classed as a DOA (dead on arrival), due to the bootloader being unlocked and illegal software having been installed. The HTC service has confirmed that illegal software has been installed on the handset at some time by yourself resulting in the warranty being invalidated. Simply unlocking and relocking the bootloader would not have invalidated the warranty.
Due to illegal software being installed on the handset while it was in your possession HTC has issued a quotation for the replacement of the mainboard. The total of the quotation for the repair is £199.81 and we will need to charge an additional £24 for the return of the handset to your Italian address by International Signed post. This provides a total repair and return cost of £223.81.
It is possible for the handset to be returned to you without it being repaired. The HTC service centre charge £23.70 for the handset to be released and returned to us. Like with the repair quotation we will need to charge £24 for the handset to be returned to you. This means that the total to return the handset to you without it being repaired is £47.70.
Regards
Sales Team
Clove Technology
TEL: +44 (0)1202 552936
FAX: +44 (0)1202 552937
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.clove.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1631466
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1631610
Prior to the release of the One's HTC provided h/w warranty repairs even if the device had been running a custom ROM. It appears that's no longer the case. It all hinges on the wording on HTCdev that states "you may void your warranty." "May" now seems to mean "will" in many cases.
It might be different in the U.S. but it's worth investigating before using HTCdev.
P.S. - Don't shoot the messenger.
wow , weak.
if true , almost regretting my trade for a onex and getting rid of galaxy nexus.
Thank God for Best Buy Black Tie Protection
dmbrown81 said:
Thank God for Best Buy Black Tie Protection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does Best Buy actually cover relocked phones? I have Black Tie Protection and I want to know whether this REALLY will cover me
I thought it was stated when they started it that using the unlock would invalidate warranties?
^ I thought so too.
KitF said:
I thought it was stated when they started it that using the unlock would invalidate warranties?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Up until the One's, they repaired h/w regardless of what s/w had been run on the device unless it was clearly customer induced damage. So while they didn't have to based on the T&C language, they did. It appears that's no longer the case (at least in Europe). As you can see from the e-mail above, their denying repairs on what are known to be frequently occuring issues having nothing to do with the unlocked bootloader. As they say, caveat emptor.
After reading their ToS it seems that you only void your warranty if the damage to your device is a result of the unlocked bootloader. The issue in the OP was an issue with the hardware (the screen) and the warranty shouldn't be voided. Granted, I'm not a lawyer but that's how I interpret their ToS.
THE SERVICE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, UPDATES, UPGRADES AND PATCHES FOR THE SOFTWARE INSTALLED ON YOUR DEVICE THAT YOU DOWNLOAD TO YOUR DEVICE FROM THE SERVICE, IS PROVIDED BY HTC ON AN “AS IS”, “WITH ALL FAULTS” AND “AS AVAILABLE” BASIS. THE COMPANY MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, AS TO THE OPERATION OF THE SERVICE, THE ACCURACY OR THE COMPLETENESS OF THE INFORMATION, CONTENT, MATERIALS, OR PRODUCTS INCLUDED OR AVAILABLE ON THE SERVICE. HTC WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES OF ANY KIND ARISING FROM THE USE OF THE SERVICE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
letshaveDEX said:
Does Best Buy actually cover relocked phones? I have Black Tie Protection and I want to know whether this REALLY will cover me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bestbuy care less about your bootloader really
blacktie covers any "accidental damage"
i think you can put the phone into the microwave for 2 minutes and deep fry it before sending it back to best buy, and they will still replace it
you : "I accidentally dropped it into the deep fryer"
geek squirt: "here's your new htc one"
Yes, however, Clove also States that the warranty wouldnt be voided had the bootloader had been unlocked then relocked. However, they stated that "illegal" software was run on it and thus the warranty is void. If a court upholds the term and warranty is void, I'm afraid of the consequences of that action. It would mean that anyone that puts a different ROM than the one their device shipped with would be illegal. It still baffles me that they would use the term "illegal" on something we love doing after rooting our devices and have a "right" to do here in America.
Sent from my HTC Vivid
NextNexus said:
After reading their ToS it seems that you only void your warranty if the damage to your device is a result of the unlocked bootloader. The issue in the OP was an issue with the hardware (the screen) and the warranty shouldn't be voided. Granted, I'm not a lawyer but that's how I interpret their ToS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You agree to this...
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
And this...
Unlocking the bootloader means that you now have the ability to customize software on your device. Please note that changing your bootloader can cause significant issues with your device and once you have unlocked your device, you have agreed to the disclaimer that states a change in warranty status such that in the event you render your device unusable, you are responsible for the recovery of your device, whether by repair or by other means.
Both are broad enough for HTC to drive a truck through them. Specifically, saying "may" void your warranty without defining what conditons apply inside and outside of "may." In the absence of definition, "may" might as well read "will" because it's totally at HTC's discretion.
ZeroRilix said:
have a "right" to do here in America.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have the right to bear arm in america
try that in europe
BarryH_GEG said:
You agree to this...
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
And this...
Unlocking the bootloader means that you now have the ability to customize software on your device. Please note that changing your bootloader can cause significant issues with your device and once you have unlocked your device, you have agreed to the disclaimer that states a change in warranty status such that in the event you render your device unusable, you are responsible for the recovery of your device, whether by repair or by other means.
Both are broad enough for HTC to drive a truck through them. Specifically, saying "may" void your warranty without defining what conditons apply inside and outside of "may." In the absence of definition, "may" might as well read "will" because it's totally at HTC's discretion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree and I posted in my previous post the exact wording from the disclaimer that they are referring to in your post. The disclaimer CLEARLY states that the warranty does not cover damage that occurs as a RESULT of the bootloader being unlocked.
NextNexus said:
I disagree and I posted in my previous post the exact wording from the disclaimer that they are referring to in your post. The disclaimer CLEARLY states that the warranty does not cover damage that occurs as a RESULT of the bootloader being unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Test it.
It's you (and maybe some lawyers) vs. a multi-billion dollar corporation. We can debate whether they should be applying the policy the way they've started to but if they turn down a warrantly claim you can't make them fix your phone (without lawyering up).
NextNexus said:
I disagree and I posted in my previous post the exact wording from the disclaimer that they are referring to in your post. The disclaimer CLEARLY states that the warranty does not cover damage that occurs as a RESULT of the bootloader being unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they may have left much wide open in their verbage, but luckily the legal crux is a part that is perfectly lucid. There is no way that flashing an "illegal" ( ) ROM can cause a physical hardware defect. The defect was not/nor could be a "result" from this action, and to claim such HTC are not abiding by their own posted terms.
---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
Test it.
It's you (and maybe some lawyers) vs. a multi-billion dollar corporation. We can debate whether they should be applying the policy the way they've started to but if they turn down a warrantly claim you can't make them fix your phone (without lawyering up).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Paolo (whomever that is) needs to test this, he is the one falsely cheated out of a warranty.
Clove and Handtec are the two biggest HTC online resellers in the UK. They've both confirmed from HTC that altering the s/w via a bootloader unlocked with HTCdev voids your warranty (in the EU). Unlocking the bootloader alone does not. This isn't theory, its practice. That's why the international forum is freaking out.
Whether they can get away with it in the long term is yet to be proven. But in the short term, this is something people considering using HTCdev should take in to account. Paolo has two options: 1) repair the phone at his expense, or 2) get it back the way he sent it. Fighting with HTC wasn’t a provided option. Debating whether or not the Titanic was unsinkable sort of became moot after it hit the iceberg.
I'm not defending or debating the correctness of HTC's actions, only pointing them out so no one here inadvertently becomes Paolo.
I'm writing this message since a lot of people are probably thinking that their warranty is still intact, since a lot of posts here and elsewhere claim that it is.
Before I unlocked my Telus One X, I wanted to be sure my warranty would be honored so I read all the materials I could, including the warranty text, the message on HTCDev.com, and various posts on this, and other forums.
Everything indicated that the warranty would only apply to direct consequences of the unlocked bootloader, eg: bricking your phone. This is reasonable, and it would be reasonable to assume that hardware defects would continue to be covered. I'm totally OK with that.
However, it seems that this is not, in fact, the case.
My One X recently started having a backlight issue, where squeezing the phone in the middle would cause the backlight to go out. Eventually, the backlight stopped working altogether, though I could see the screen if I looked hard enough in the right light, and it played sounds and received calls normally. I brought it in to my Telus dealer for repair and, since I'm in Canada, it was shipped to a company called FutureTel.
After a week, I had to chase down the status of my repair. Essentially FutureTel stated, according to the representative at the Telus dealer, that the phone was "beyond repair" and gave me the option of buying a replacement phone. I was given no more information.
This didn't make sense to me, so I started calling around to all involved. The dealer told me to call Telus.
Telus: We have nothing to do with that. The dealer sent it to HTC. You need to call HTC.
This is where it starts getting extremely odd...
HTC: We don't warranty these phones. We sell them to Telus/Rogers/Bell, and they "modify" them so we have nothing to do with it. We can't even provide a warranty due to this modification. For warranties, they contract FutureTel. You need to call them directly, here's their number
FutureTel: The warranty was denied due to "illegal software." (I asked what law was violated, and she wouldn't elaborate) We only handle warranties based on HTC policies. They are the only party that actually provides the warranty. Call them
HTC (again): Previous HTC guy was wrong. We set the policy, and the policy states that "If you root the device, your warranty is void."
This really bugged me, since I didn't see any such statement on any documentation from HTC or Telus, so I asked for clarification: "Where is this stated, and what, exactly, does it say?"
He responded with a lot of vague "in the warranty", and "on our website" answers but could not definitively find any such statement. I quoted the text from HTCDev.com and he said that didn't matter. It's the warranty, and directed me to a page on their website under support listing the warranty policies.
There is a curious omission of Canada in the list, and we went back and forth many times with him claiming I followed his instructions wrong before he eventually said, "just look at the United States one."
The thing is, It doesn't actually state what is claimed to be stated in that document, despite claims that it did. Under "LIMITED WARRANTY STATEMENT" Section 7, it lists the instances that void the warranty. Nothing about unlocking or bootloaders or software of any kind.
I kept asking for the exact section that voids the warranty, and eventually, he pointed to a section under the software EULA:
ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT MAY BE PROVIDED WITH THE
SOFTWARE IS INCLUDED FOR USE AT YOUR OPTION. IF YOU CHOOSE
TO USE SUCH THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, THEN SUCH USE SHALL BE
GOVERNED BY SUCH THIRD PARTY’S LICENSE AGREEMENT. HTC IS NOT
RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY THIRD PARTY’S SOFTWARE AND SHALL HAVE NO
LIABILITY FOR YOUR USE OF THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are familiar with EULAs and agreements, you know what this means: The phone comes with software preloaded that wasn't written by HTC: eg: Facebook. If you use that software, then it's own license will be in effect. Read this as: "Facebook is responsible for their own software. We just handed it to you"
No matter what I tried, I couldn't get the guy to accept the actual interpretation of the passage and he continued to state that it means that if I "use any 3rd-party software, the warranty is void."
Right then.
I asked for an escalation in hopes of getting someone who can parse the English language. Unfortunately, I got the same thing. She pointed to the exact same passage, claiming that it voids the warranty. I tried to point out how ridiculous that reading was: "With your interpretation, that means that any software I install, even via the Play store, voids the warranty." Her response: "It says nothing about apps."
Great. That section is entirely about apps...
So, I asked them that if this is the case, then to please amend the text on HTCDev.com to state clearly that the warranty is void if you continue. She said she would pass that along. (right...)
So here is the bottom line: HTC WILL NOT COVER YOUR PHONE IF YOU UNLOCK THE BOOTLOADER. If you are worried about your warranty and you are considering using HTCDev to unlock it, do not assume you will be covered as many other posts state.
If you want coverage, and you want to unlock, you really only have 2 options:
Unlock using another method that does not "mark" the phone
Get 3rd-party coverage from you provider or somewhere else. It seems that people have had good luck with those, despite bootloader status
I thought this was mentioned and must be agreed upon as soon as the HTCDev unlock process begins.
jacobas92 said:
I thought this was mentioned and must be agreed upon as soon as the HTCDev unlock process begins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is all it says on the matter:
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And:
This is a technical procedure and the side effects could possibly necessitate repairs to your device not covered under warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It specifically mentions issues related to the unlocking in all cases. There is no text that specifically voids the entire warranty at any point in the process. Also, in searches of XDA and other sites, I found MANY posts claiming that hardware issues are still covered and to have at it. I wanted to warn people about these posts since they come up at the the top when you Google it.
There are threads where people say they have gotten repairs, but it seems that they most likely had 3rd-party warranties via the carrier. (Sprint and Verizon both came up.)
When I unlocked my bootloader, I thought it was pretty clear that my warranty was void.
If youre unlocking your bootloader, you should at least have enough understanding of software and hardware to know that it's not hard to blame most hardware issues on software modifications. Obviously a large company will avoid added costs if they can.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
ILiPri case
exad said:
When I unlocked my bootloader, I thought it was pretty clear that my warranty was void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on what, though? I, along with many others, saw no reason to expect the whole warranty to be void, especially since there is no language to indicate this.
If you're talking about HTC not helping you if you brick your phone, then of course we would all expect that, and the language specifically says so.
A LOT of people are on these forums claiming that the phones WILL be covered for hardware defects, and this is not the case.
The worst part is that they are pointing to language relating to 3rd-party software that is pre-loaded by HTC themselves as the reason they won't honor the warranty. If this is how they are claiming that section is to be interpreted, then they can point to anybody who installed literally anything from the Play Store and say the warranty is void.
I'm not saying what they're doing is right. I'm just saying it's to be expected. I have yet to see such thing as a morally sound company.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Same exact thing happened to my phone, and a few other peoples. Seems weird.
Sent from my Nexus 4
jimfunk said:
Based on what, though? I, along with many others, saw no reason to expect the whole warranty to be void, especially since there is no language to indicate this.
If you're talking about HTC not helping you if you brick your phone, then of course we would all expect that, and the language specifically says so.
A LOT of people are on these forums claiming that the phones WILL be covered for hardware defects, and this is not the case.
The worst part is that they are pointing to language relating to 3rd-party software that is pre-loaded by HTC themselves as the reason they won't honor the warranty. If this is how they are claiming that section is to be interpreted, then they can point to anybody who installed literally anything from the Play Store and say the warranty is void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty much common sense. You're messing with a phone and changing software that is unofficial to the phone. There's reasons why it flags the phone in the hboot. If you brick you may be lucky enough to fool your provider and get a free one back but same with iPhones. If you break your phone while it is jailbroken and don't restore it before you take it to apple they won't repair your phone without a cost. It's still pretty much common sense
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda app-developers app
Megadoug13 said:
It's pretty much common sense. You're messing with a phone and changing software that is unofficial to the phone. There's reasons why it flags the phone in the hboot. If you brick you may be lucky enough to fool your provider and get a free one back but same with iPhones. If you break your phone while it is jailbroken and don't restore it before you take it to apple they won't repair your phone without a cost. It's still pretty much common sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's common sense if I brick it, but not if there's a hardware defect, especially when the unlock was provided by HTC. There is also no language in any of the agreements that voids the warranty.
Not familiar with Apple, but if I buy a notebook and install Linux on it, my warranty is still intact, even though I replaced the bootloader. I've gone through that multiple times.
Finally, the whole point of this post was to make people aware that HTC won't honor the warranty, since there are many threads here where people say they will. I read those threads, along with all of the warranty information, and the text on HTCDev.com, before I went ahead with it. There was nothing official to indicate the warranty was void, and in fact many people suggested it would be honored.
jimfunk said:
Not familiar with Apple, but if I buy a notebook and install Linux on it, my warranty is still intact, even though I replaced the bootloader. I've gone through that multiple times.
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Comparing apples and oranges. You're partitioning and overwriting rewriteable Disk Space. This does not cause any damage. A better comparison would be flashing a modified bios on a videocard or motherboard which is ALSO NOT COVERED by any manufacturer.
When overwriting Read only memory, there is more risk involved and it takes skilled people to restore and repair. Software is specifically designed to work with the hardware contained within. This is also one of the reasons your phone OS may seem zippier than your PC.
I can completely understand why a company would not warrant a phone that's been messed with. It's difficult to narrow down the cause and eventhough some hardware failures are unlikely to be caused by unlocking your bootloader it can be difficult to determine. Then after they've spent time and money determining if bootloader unlocking is the cause of the hardware defect, the customer may not even want to pay to have it fixed.
exad said:
I can completely understand why a company would not warrant a phone that's been messed with. It's difficult to narrow down the cause and eventhough some hardware failures are unlikely to be caused by unlocking your bootloader it can be difficult to determine. Then after they've spent time and money determining if bootloader unlocking is the cause of the hardware defect, the customer may not even want to pay to have it fixed.
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If it's obvious that the cause was a manufacturing defect, the software doesn't matter.
In any case, the warranty text, and the text on HTCDev.com are clearly stated, regardless of what is "obvious" to you. There is NO reading of the materials that indicates that the warranty is void, and there ARE people out there telling others that it would be covered.
The whole purpose of a pre-defined agreement is that everybody knows where they stand BEFORE entering into that agreement. Neither party can change the rules afterwards, or enact hidden policies without ensuring that all parties are informed. There are laws in the US and Canada for exactly this kind of thing. If the whole thing was solely up to the discretion of the manufacturer, there wouldn't be warranty agreements in the first place.
jimfunk said:
If it's obvious that the cause was a manufacturing defect, the software doesn't matter.
In any case, the warranty text, and the text on HTCDev.com are clearly stated, regardless of what is "obvious" to you. There is NO reading of the materials that indicates that the warranty is void, and there ARE people out there telling others that it would be covered.
The whole purpose of a pre-defined agreement is that everybody knows where they stand BEFORE entering into that agreement. Neither party can change the rules afterwards, or enact hidden policies without ensuring that all parties are informed. There are laws in the US and Canada for exactly this kind of thing. If the whole thing was solely up to the discretion of the manufacturer, there wouldn't be warranty agreements in the first place.
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*Shrug*
"There are those who will insist on disabling S-ON purely to have full access regardless of security implications or to primarily promote specific tools and installation techniques that have taken the more convenient route of assuming all security is off. If a command line tool is deemed as inconvenient, developers can easily develop alternatives that would allow others to install their custom roms without having to alter their device’s Security-ON status. As duly noted in the accompanying email with your unlock_code.bin, please remember that unlocking your bootloader may void all or parts of your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC. Unlocking the bootloader is for development purposes only."
pulled that from FAQ on HTCDEV.com
exad said:
may void all or parts of your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC. Unlocking the bootloader is for development purposes only[/B]."
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This language is vague, and feeds the apparent consensus on these forums that HTC will still honor manufacturing defects as long as it's obviously not caused by the unlocking.
The reason legal language is written the way it is, is to ensure that the terms are clear. If they want to make it known that it will void the warranty, they should use different language, such as "unlocking your bootloader WILL void your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC"
This ambiguity has led to incorrect information being passed on these forums and showing up in Google searches on the topic.
It sounds like you are misreading the purpose of my post as a "poor me" story. It is not. I am taking my lumps and getting my phone fixed elsewhere. I simply wanted to make sure that anybody else curious about the topic will find some clear information when they search, instead of finding the many other posts that state that the warranty IS covered.
jimfunk said:
This language is vague, and feeds the apparent consensus on these forums that HTC will still honor manufacturing defects as long as it's obviously not caused by the unlocking.
The reason legal language is written the way it is, is to ensure that the terms are clear. If they want to make it known that it will void the warranty, they should use different language, such as "unlocking your bootloader WILL void your warranty and your device may not function as intended by HTC"
This ambiguity has led to incorrect information being passed on these forums and showing up in Google searches on the topic.
It sounds like you are misreading the purpose of my post as a "poor me" story. It is not. I am taking my lumps and getting my phone fixed elsewhere. I simply wanted to make sure that anybody else curious about the topic will find some clear information when they search, instead of finding the many other posts that state that the warranty IS covered.
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Unfortunately, while I whole heartedly agree that more people should know this, I doubt many will find this thread before it's too late.
if the device is s-off, the tampered message can be removed, ruu can be installed, the s-on flag can be set again, and the bootloader can be re-locked. That would remove any trace of root or unlocked bootloader.
I sent my devices back relocked, ruu'ed to the tampered flag was removed, and s-off for a microphone problem and HTC fixed it under warranty.
I think it depends on country, but in the end if you believe HTC/telus is breaking a contract or other laws you should get a lawyer and prove your point.
In Australia, where I live, the warranty is from the place of purchase and extends for a length of time that can be reasonably expected for that device.
Manufacturer warranties are not law and are purely given by manufacturers in good faith. If I buy from Telstra, Telstra must give a warranty and the warranty at least extends for the length of a contract the phone was puchased with eg 2 years.
Telstra having arrangments with HTC to fix warranty issues is upto Telstra and htc, it has zero to do with the customers statutory warranty from Telstra that is covered and protected by Australian consumer law.
Telstra can not void the devices warranty based on unlocking the bootloader.
Similar Harvey Norman's cannot void based on a void sticker over a screw being broken on a tv set.
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda app-developers app
ImagioX1 said:
I sent my devices back relocked, ruu'ed to the tampered flag was removed, and s-off for a microphone problem and HTC fixed it under warranty.
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I'm about to relock my phone, apply the ruu files and send it in for warranty. I was wondering if there is a thread to a proper proceedures in doing so? More to the point what you did with removing the tampered flag. If you were successful then would you mind giving more advice as to how.
Aren't disclaimers about our voided warranty posted all over forums?
Sent from my One X using xda app-developers app
dethpikil said:
Aren't disclaimers about our voided warranty posted all over forums?
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They also say your phone might experience explosions of puppy kisses. What is said on these forums has no bearing on warranty status in any country.
At best they are advice related to warranty status as the dev understands in their own country.
I think in most cases it is based on what is understood to be the case in USA. A country known to offer very little consumer protection.
Regarding Samsung's "Warranty Bit" Sh**(Originally from http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=49345592)
For those of you who are as ticked off as I am about Samsung's new warranty bit/voided warranty behavior due to a suspected E-fuse in their latest devices, YOU (yes, YOU) need to speak up and make sure that Samsung executives are starkly aware of who pays for their 50' yachts and their effing Bentleys! Tell them that your support for them is easily dissolved and that this new "practice" of theirs is one of the quickest and easiest ways to dissolve it.
Consumers are the ones who pay Samsung's bills. This is a truth that they would rather not acknowledge, but given a force that's great enough in numbers, they will yield to the will of their consumers.
Just look at Microsoft and Windows 8 (8.1), as well as their recent release of Office 2013 (license transfer). Microsoft has got to be one of THE most stubborn corporations in the world right now, but even they have yielded to the overwhelming force that is the consumer, and more specifically, their bank accounts. Ever heard the phrase "money talks"? Oh, it most certainly talks.. We as consumers have the ability to make our money talk collectively, so, if we want to see an end to this new way that they're giving their customers the shaft, we need to join voices and speak UP.
Drown them with emails, light up their tech support lines, and paint this picture for them as clearly as you can. Tell them that you WILL NOT continue to purchase their devices when they deny warranty service simply because of a "warranty bit", or for other ridiculous and non-sensical reasons, and tell them that Knox should come as an OPTION and NOT A MANDATE. I've listed a few ways to do that below. If anyone else has other/better ways of doing so, then by all means, share with the class.
Samsung USA's online customer feedback form: https://contactus.samsung.com/customer/contactus/formmail/mail/MailQuestionProduct.jsp?SITE_ID=1&titleCode=1
Samsung USA's toll-free customer service phone number: 1-855-SAM-USA1 (1-855-726-8721) 9am – 9pm ET, 7 days a week
Samsung Mobile USA's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobileUSA
If there's a forum on XDA Developers or ANY OTHER WEBSITE where you think this post might help spread the word about this, then you have my expressed written consent to copy this entire post (verbatim, from beginning to end please, including this part at the bottom) and re-post it WHEREVER you think it might help this cause. I've attached a text file that includes this post, as well as all the formatting/coloring (Attention Re-Poster: please re-attach the same text file).
Go, contact Samsung NOW!
(Reserved)
Every Android phone I've ever bought came out of warranty when rooted. In Note 3, Samsung just found a way to detect rooting, that's all. Nothing else changed, so I don't think this is going to have much effect.
aydc said:
Every Android phone I've ever bought came out of warranty when rooted. In Note 3, Samsung just found a way to detect rooting, that's all. Nothing else changed, so I don't think this is going to have much effect.
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But you even cant flash stock FW, nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag. Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox? Most expensive device, with many weaknesses that they didn't address, but they forced us to accept knox. No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2. And everything with no clear explanation!? I won't buy their product soon!
Sent from my GT-I9505
jjnhl68 said:
But you even cant flash stock FW, nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag. Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox? Most expensive device, with many weaknesses that they didn't address, but they forced us to accept knox. No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2. And everything with no clear explanation!? I won't buy their product soon!
Sent from my GT-I9505
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Good - don't.
Knox is included and everyone knows that, it's in the box and everywhere.
Downgrading is a security risk and rooting is technically an exploit.
Knox uses very little RAM (if you uninstall the main apk which doesn't even require root)
I can't believe we're still talking about ram usage of some small apps even if we've got 2/3 gbs of ram to spare...
Skander1998 said:
Good - don't.
Knox is included and everyone knows that, it's in the box and everywhere.
Downgrading is a security risk and rooting is technically an exploit.
Knox uses very little RAM (if you uninstall the main apk which doesn't even require root)
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Click to collapse
But then, KNOX using no RAM would be better. If half the owners of Note3 don't use KNOX, what's the point in it even using any?
Why have a device that's so powerful but then put on software that just hogs. 2.5GB memory yet the TouchWiz and the other crap that Samsung put in it take up so much.
OP, after reading your post, I find it very difficult to comprehend the exact purpose and reasoning that you are trying to convey. After all, it sounds that you are merely butthurt that you got denied warranty because you tampered with your device.
However, you must try to understand how the business world works first.
Your issue is a problem that a miniscule portion of the market experiences. Those of us who consider themselves "leet haxxorz" tend to enjoy tinkering with their devices to streamline the user experience. However, things often go wrong - phones and tablets get bricked. Then the frustrated consumer heads back to Samsung to demand repair/exchange.
As a corporation, Samsung must have noticed that this was costing them a significant amount of money, and hence KNOX was created as a comprehensive tool with a feature to instantly diagnose whether product has been tampered with.
The average user that understands absolutely nothing about technology could care less whether KNOX exists or not.
And as long as KNOX will save the company money in the long run, your persistent complaints will accomplish absolutely nothing. Don't forget that we represent a fairly insignificant portion of the market. Encouraging users to tamper with products encourages liability which costs money. Money that no company is willing to pay.
The only advice I can offer you is to ensure you are not voiding any sort of warranty before you partake in certain activities. By doing research I was able to avoid the 0x1 situation, and retain my warranty. Of course, I had to sacrifice rooting and installing a custom ROM.
jjnhl68 said:
But you even cant flash stock FW...which will lead to 0x1 flag...
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no ppl have flashed stock roms without tripping their knox..
jjnhl68 said:
...nor downgrade, which will lead to 0x1 flag...
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Click to collapse
as the other user said this can be considered a security issue so you have no argument..
jjnhl68 said:
...Also, did you see amount of RAM tat knox uses? And you tell me % of users that need knox?...
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Click to collapse
its like any other "bloat", do you use any of those apps? do you cry about those apps?
jjnhl68 said:
..Most expensive device, with many weaknesses..
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what weaknesses? and it isnt most expensive anymore... :angel:
jjnhl68 said:
...No choice, or to stay on 4.2.2...
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Click to collapse
how do you plan on doing that? as the note 3 came with 4.3
jjnhl68 said:
...And everything with no clear explanation!?...
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Click to collapse
the word "knox" is printed EVERYWHERE.. what more are they supposed to do to make users "aware"
jjnhl68 said:
... I won't buy their product soon!...
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Click to collapse
only part of your post that i agree with :laugh:
PS- next time you want a big company to do what YOU want...try doing research and not make silly mistakes that can make your argument really weak
Khizar said:
no ppl have flashed stock roms without tripping their knox..
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Also ppl have flashed with tripping their knox!!!
Khizar said:
as the other user said this can be considered a security issue so you have no argument..
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And I should loose my warranty because of that???
Khizar said:
its like any other "bloat", do you use any of those apps? do you cry about those apps?
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See my point!!! No need for bloat, ok?
Khizar said:
what weaknesses? and it isnt most expensive anymore... :angel:
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It was when i have bought it!!! For 6 months my phone was 3 times in service for repairs under warranty (microphone, speaker, display defects)
We all know about weak points of S4, we are using them, aren't we?
Khizar said:
how do you plan on doing that? as the note 3 came with 4.3
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I was on 4.2.2 in time of buying
Khizar said:
the word "knox" is printed EVERYWHERE.. what more are they supposed to do to make users "aware"
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Khizar said:
only part of your post that i agree with :laugh:
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Khizar said:
PS- next time you want a big company to do what YOU want...try doing research and not make silly mistakes that can make your argument really weak
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I already said, in summer 2013. you couldn't know Samsung's intentions, ok?
On any phone rooting or tampering with your phone voids your warranty no questions asked.
On every root thread the first thing is a warning telling you your warranty is now void.
Your malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and fake it to get free servicing is now not possible hence the whining.
PS: flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.
I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.
I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.
I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.
I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.
As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
Journyman16 said:
Personally I mostly agree with the OP. I actually posted a couple of posts in here detailing my email to Samsung Australia and responses and they have vanished - no explanation.
I think the argument that, 'it is clear it has Knox so don't whine about it' is specious and ignores the fact there are 5.4 million members on XDA, most of whom would take exception to being told they can't mod their phones.
I have rooted and not lost Knox, but I also would like more access to my phones without voiding warranty. There are reasons. I want root because the apps I prefer to use require it. Titanium and Greenify are very handy to have and both require root.
I want a custom recovery because a Nandroid backup is the only way I know of to back up a phone that includes all screens, all screen layouts and widgets and can put your phone back just like you had it without having to sit for hours recreating the layout. I backup my calls, SMS, contacts and apps, but the restore is painful. A nandroid makes it simple and you can't do it in stock recovery.
I have no complaints at present about the kernel, but I had a lot of pleasure with my S3 playing with different ROM's using Siyah or GoogyMax - when I have a few months on my Note 3 I will venture down that path, but electronics follow the bathtup curve so I'd like to make sure I'm on the bottom of the bath before I risk warranty.
As I said to Samsung, they appear to have made a choice to follow the Apple line, but more extreme, (you can jailbreak an Apple and return it to stock for warranty purposes) most likely in the hope of becoming the next Blackberry. (i.e. Corporate standard phone) but I think they would have been far better to NOT annoy their current customers who are mostly private individuals and bring out a different but similar phone for Corporates. (I make the assumption about the type of users because I can't recall seeing anyone in the S3, Note, S4 Zoom or Note 3 forums with problems to do with Enterprise sysapps, Enterprise setups, or even Exchange services - to me that suggests very few users are using them)
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i cannot agree with you more.
its all about consumer rights and samdung has no rights to force enterprise solutions on private individuals who have no use for NSA grade security.
however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.
The logic of not being able to downgrade to a older bootloader and not tripping knox is absolute bullcrap.afterall,it is samdung's official ROM and flashing it trips knox and samdung claims you are trying to be funny with their devices(yeah,that's right,you pay top dollars for their phones and it does not belong to you.PERIOD),so what does that tell you?
samdung going the way of apple and trying to be a corporate phone ala blackberry????
Bi*ch please, blackberry was the top corporate device coz its secured as hell.but jus look at how many ppl actually want to use a blackberry to take pictures,listen to music,surf the net,play games on it or hell even show it to frds they have a new model.
samdung,you have the best hardware in the market,i'll give you that.but your TW sucks,loaded with bloatware and is at best irritable when compared with any custom rom and laughable when compare with CM.
with knox,you can have it.no more samdung's knox-pox time for me to switch to something more friendly.
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
frostmore said:
however,we have samdung fanboys here who keep defending corporate right more than consumer rights...even going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not.
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Click to collapse
This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).
And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
lilstevie said:
This is really uncalled for, it has ALWAYS been the case that if you root your phone, you lose your warranty. In this case samsung track it by flipping a bit, so they know when you have voided the warranty, many other devices handle this in the form of bootloader unlocks. Once you unlock a bootloader on other devices the process is recorded, purely to void your warranty. This is nothing new, perhaps attaching the name KNOX to it has given you the idea that it is corporate security etc. If it were simply called "Warranty void bit" it would be no more or less related to knox (it just happens that knox shares some of the security mechanisms with how the bit is controlled).
And while we are talking about consumer rights. As the manufacturer of a product it is their right to refuse warranty due to tampering with the software. Maybe with the warranty void bit they can save a few bucks in warranty fraud from people who break their devices with root. As for "going as far to judge who deserve warranty or not" I've already stated that it has always been the case that if you tamper with the software your device warranty is void. Hell, Samsung have had some of the most lax security policies over their devices for the past few years with regards to tracking tampering. Next thing you know you will be complaining that unlocking the bootloader on your sony device is irreversible, or that unlocking your HTC device leaves traces even after relock.
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Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
frostmore said:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
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Click to collapse
And compared to some devices that don't even let you downgrade at all, whether you want to void your warranty or not are any different because?
frostmore said:
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
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Click to collapse
Okay, first of all, using terms like "samdung" is just making you sound like a petulant child. It really does not help your case at all. Secondly, you are contradicting yourself in one swoop here, saying that they should be able to protect their rights, but they shouldn't have a mechanism to be able to protect their rights.
frostmore said:
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
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Click to collapse
Please tell me what the difference is. Sure I get why you want to use Greenify, or TB, but tell me how from the perspective of the manufacturer how they can tell the difference on a broken phone. Why should the OEM have to pay for all those devices bricked through stupid actions of users with root access (and it is more common than you think) for the benefit of the few that will not destroy their device in the process.
frostmore said:
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.
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Samsungs policy towards warranty is your device is excluded through the act of modification, that is to hardware or software. Sony and HTC have a similar policy rooting, in fact I don't think I have seen any device on the market where the warranty is maintained on rooting. Please note here, I'm not saying that people haven't gotten their devices repaired after rooting. I'm simply noting the act of rooting in most territories around the world constitutes breach of terms for the warranty and therefore makes that null and void.
frostmore said:
with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
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Click to collapse
Um, no. Samsung are like "we are okay with everything, but note that modification of the software on your device constitutes voiding your warranty". Unless you have a carrier variant like an AT&T device or Verizon device the bootloader is unlocked, as in, it was never locked down in the first place, you can open up heimdall or odin with the device connected in download mode, and flash it to your hearts content. Downgrading is a tricky situation. Samsung are well within their rights, and in some cases required to as per IP licensing to keep the boot environment secure.
frostmore said:
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
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You mean consumer rights that people have been abusing for years?
frostmore said:
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
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I don't worry I'm no fanboy of any device. I am however one that is a firm supporter that if people hadn't been abusing the warranty procedures that these sorts of measures would never have been implemented.
If I have administrator rights in my computer why I can't have the same in my phone?
Does being an administrator in your windows desktop computer void your warranty?
Why I can't unninstal all the apps that I don't use?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
frostmore said:
Voluntarily voiding your warranty is one thing,unilaterally voiding warranty for trying to downgrade to an earlier version of rom is considered what again?
no one says manufacturer rights shouldn't be protected.but what samdung is doing here is voiding warranty based on the knox bit.unilateral refusing warranty coz knox bit is tripped.and consumer should have the right of full access to their phone.not some two bit restricted access based on samdung's specfications.
rooting so that we can use apps like TB or Greenify is what i called reasonable.Rooting so that you can overclock the cpu and then crying for warranty when its burnt is what i called being a fraud.and most of us want root is mainly due to the former and not latter.so why should consumer be penalized for wanting full admin access to their phones?
i have no qualms about sony or htc's open door policy when it comes to voiding your warranty.at least they are open about it and giving you a choice to do it and also allowing you to have an unlocked bootloader.with samdung,they are like "oh we are ok with rooting,but hey we keep the bootloader locked,so no downgrade,no warranty and sucks to be you".
Yeah,consumer rights my baby smooth behind.
and dun worry too much about being called a samdung fanboy.that wasn't directed at you,rather a certain individual who has been championing samdung's knox warranty void (and their corporate interests)with arguments like security risk,malicious intentions to break the rules of your warranty and the mother of all bullcrap "flashing stock firmware will never void your warranty unless it has an older bootloader version (security risk)".
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Ha ha, Samdung!! Like Samsung but like dung. Aww man, did you come up with yourself? That is brilliant
AllanJ60 said:
I do not know why everyone is *****ing about KNOX, I had a look at it after reading the OP's post, from what I can see, and I might be wrong, BUT you actually need to INSTALL it first, otherwise it it just sits there doing nothing. do not like it or want to use it, then DO NOT INSTALL IT, or just disable the KNOX install file, SIMPLE.
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*grins* Yep, you are right... you're wrong. It isn't the Knox software people are upset about, it is the Knox counter that is built in. It is set at 0x0 and if you do anything with your phone except take Samsung OTA updates, which have been tightened even further once they realised the Devs had found a way around their little booby trap, you trigger a change of state in that counter to 0x1.
It is supposed to be irreversible and you can trigger it by doing things Android users have been doing since Android came out. A good number of what are now standard apps require root access and providing that will trigger Knox. As pointed out, if you decide you don't like a particular OTA update (say to KitKat) and try to go back to a previous version (say the one your phone came with) you trigger Knox.
And Samsung is voiding warranties because Knox is triggered. Blanket voiding as far as can be determined. Doesn't matter if there's a hardware issue (say the charge circuit stopped) they will void because that trigger is at 0x1.
Wanting to root Sm-n986u Verizon. I have read that the Sm-n986u can be firmware flashed to the Sm-n986u1 with a patched odin. If that is possible will the oem bootloader unlock show up in the developers mode?
Read: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/sampwnd-usa-model-bl-unlock-info-u-u1-w.4205981/
You can root USA variant. You can find here
I did it and I'm thrilled, works great
We're you able to unlock the Bootloader!
Yes, I used a paid service, super easy and works great.
Can someone send me a link for sm 986 w rooting?
Shams kh said:
Can someone send me a link for sm 986 w rooting?
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The thread is about 5 up using a paid service.
[CLOSED][SamPWND]USA Model BL Unlock Info [U/U1/W]
Note: This Thread is @svetius Approved! NOTE: Thread temporarily closed until OP returns SamPWND Bootloader Unlock Service Note2: This is an informational thread that links to a paid service. Paid service is not a service provided by XDA...
forum.xda-developers.com
Jack143 said:
We're you able to unlock the Bootloader!
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Hey Jack. Were you ever able to figure out how to root your phone on your own? Without using a paid service. I think it is bull**** these guys keep the secret from everyone to capitalize on it.
DarkRasta33 said:
Hey Jack. Were you ever able to figure out how to root your phone on your own? Without using a paid service. I think it is bull**** these guys keep the secret from everyone to capitalize on it.
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I'd say it's fair, he put himself on the line to get the things required to do so.
How bout you work for sammy, grab their secret stuff and distribute it to everyone?
Were lucky we have anything at all. It's not really legal what he's doing you know.
No I haven't, and that's what my post was about.
coilbio said:
I'd say it's fair, he put himself on the line to get the things required to do so.
How bout you work for sammy, grab their secret stuff and distribute it to everyone?
Were lucky we have anything at all. It's not really legal what he's doing you know.
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as long as the device is paid for it is perfectly legal. #righttorepair
Arod4409 said:
as long as the device is paid for it is perfectly legal. #righttorepair
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Right to repair applies to cars and is old legislature. Just because people don't understand that doesn't mean we get to apply it to another market.
Electronic right to repair is not legal legislation, it's an idea, an incomplete idea that hasn't been well thought out at that considering big cell phone manufacturers can't even keep the same components and supply chains to build every device the same . Anyone who buys anything up to that point where it becomes actual defined legislation shouldnt assume rights to anything of the sort.
Read all the legal stuff you agreed to when you set up your phone, you're renting it, you don't own. It.
Right to repair applies to all consumer goods, and that legislation has been recently updated. It is legal to unlock and root/jailbreak your phone as long as you are not under a contract or lease agreement. Terms and conditions are very rarely binding contracts, and don't usually hold up in court, they are like a liability release at a trampoline park, ultimately you can still sue if you get injured. I doubt in the current political climate, any court would bother with a case of someone violating the t&c by rooting, unless it caused significant economic damage to a manufacturer. Yes, they would not have to honor the warranty anymore, but that's the risk you take.