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[Q] Mango - Will we get it early through XDA or elsewhere?

I am prepared to get flamed for this or worse!
But will we have to wait until the fall for Mango?
Or will development versions of Mango find there way on to here or elsewhere?
As I say I have my flame proof jacket on!
Cheers

As far as I know the developer tools are already available. These include an emulator which can be used to test Mango apps.
Although I have not yet tried it out, things like multitasking should work while twitter and the new contacts features will probably be disabled just like they are in the current emulator.
However, there might be a hacked version which could reveal some new features (or let us use these newly announced features) in the emulator.
On an acutal device, I doubt there will be anything available anytime soon.
EDIT: wow I was wrong but actually I am happy that I was wrong: MS is working on getting Mango to developer devices before the consumer launch this fall: http://twitter.com/#!/joebelfiore/status/73083901165322240
Official developers (like me) will probably get this but I don't know about the rest of you (jailbreakers).

slimshady322 said:
As far as I know the developer tools are already available. These include an emulator which can be used to test Mango apps.
Although I have not yet tried it out, things like multitasking should work while twitter and the new contacts features will probably be disabled just like they are in the current emulator.
However, there might be a hacked version which could reveal some new features (or let us use these newly announced features) in the emulator.
On an acutal device, I doubt there will be anything available anytime soon.
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AND HERE'S THE LINK!

I think you're misinterpreting "developers." They are only dishing it out to VIP developers and press, not just general public.

Well without a real developer device you can only write basic apps. Many features require testing on a real device.
Last year (before the release of WP 7) they gave out quite a lot of developer devices before launch running a beta version of WP7.
I guess that this year they will do it more or less like last year. One advantage is that devices are already availble and therefore They don't actually have to pay other companies to produce the phones.
However, they of coures cannot simply release Mango for developers like this July or so and then wait until October/November for the consumer release because people will be pissed if they see videos on youtube of mango and they see that it is out in the wild but they have to wait several months for it.
Therefore the release for developers will probably not be feature complete and maybe only include the features that are interesting to developers such as multitasking and the APIs but not twitter etc.

nevermind ten characters

I don't see why they would only release it to bigname developers. How many small to medium developers havent even converted to developing WP7 apps due to lack of Sockets and PIM info and API limits of the current version.
Microsoft wants developers and in order to get bigger better apps they need developers working on them as soon as possible. So releasing Mango early would be the only way to accomplish that. Even if people only became a developer and paid the $99 fee to get Mango early, what harm would that cause (besides slight temporary fragmentation)?
Microsoft would be making $99 and essentially charging money for an early upgrade and making way more money then their normal $15 OS licensing fee. I would consider paying $99 for Mango to get it early. I see only benefits as I could show off WP7 to people and this would encourage them to buy a WP7.

TriAxisFL said:
Microsoft wants developers and in order to get bigger better apps they need developers working on them as soon as possible. So releasing Mango early would be the only way to accomplish that. Even if people only became a developer and paid the $99 fee to get Mango early, what harm would that cause (besides slight temporary fragmentation)?
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This is what I believe as well.
Microsoft would want the apps that are released into the Mango App store on the release day (For a lack of a better term to differentiate) to be properly tested, so that when they go global with the Mango update (start focusing their marketing on Europe & Asia) they will have a huge new portfolio of well tested applications that integrate smoothly into WP7Mango.
Developers are also a lot more forgiving approaching bugs in a beta release of an OS than an end user. Devs are also a lot more thorough when it comes to reports on bugs which in turn will be a Win-Win scenario for MS with a more stable OS launch than not going this route.

Quick questions.. If they do release it early to developers, one do dreamspark regisitered developers count, and two will it remove my T-Mo branding?

It's my understanding that it will only be available to developers with unbranded retail phones.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

http://bit.ly/kt88d4
Confirmation from MS that it will be developer devices handed out to the big players and possibly given away as prizes at some point. Terribly predictable, disappointing and typical of MS! I think they've missed a huge opportunity here in not giving this update away.
Sent from my 7 Pro T7576 using Board Express

How long untill mango?

Simple question I hope
How far is mango off coming to factory unlocked handsets. I am assuming these don't have to wait for the usual carrier messing around and was the reason I went for on of these. I am also in the UK if this makes a difference because of region.
Thanks
Sent from my Venue Pro using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Nothing official yet, although there was one MS exec that stated October. I would say thats a pretty good bet. Although MS may try to push it out in Sept. due to a new iPhone coming out and iOS 5 being released. In fact, I not only hope they are doing so, I would almost bet on it. Here's to hoping they can push it out a bit quicker.

waiting desperately for it!! it would be fun!!!

It will go out to networks late summer, and be distributed to the end user in the fall - unless there is some delay.

It will probably be released on nokia handsets in early September, then released to the rest in October.

A beta version of Mango will become available to registered AppHub developers sometime next week. The finished version is expected to arrive around the first anniversary of the original WP7 launch.

Greg2k said:
A beta version of Mango will become available to registered AppHub developers sometime next week. The finished version is expected to arrive around the first anniversary of the original WP7 launch.
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Where'd you get that information?
There was a rumor early this week about the Mango Beta dropping on Wednesday or Thursday but it was dissmissed by Brandon Watson and it turned out to be false.

I think people are just inferring the "next week" time frame based on the wording of Brandon's tweet, when he said that nothing would be happening "this week".

slimshady322 said:
Where'd you get that information?
There was a rumor early this week about the Mango Beta dropping on Wednesday or Thursday but it was dissmissed by Brandon Watson and it turned out to be false.
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From here:
Neowin said:
This week has been a rollercoaster ride for Microsoft with Windows Phone 7. Firstly, the company distributed limited devices to the press for review, then Neowin uncovered news that the Mango beta was due this week. Today, we have uncovered news on why the delay happened, how the update process will work and new features that are likely to be included in the beta.
There's an eery silence coming from Microsoft this week, with normally noisy internal messaging boards and distribution lists going quiet about Mango and staff being unwilling to comment on the beta or Mango itself since the reviews went live. Neowin was contacted by a source inside Microsoft (who obviously did not want to be named) that told us that there was an issue with the build that was to be released this week. Apparently, the build that was to be released had a faulty upgrade script that pointed to a Microsoft Corporate file share, which would not work outside the company, which inevitably caused the delay. Our source says that after the delay, we should expect to see the "AppHub release within a week."
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Would the beta be available for everyone or just devs. We simple users can comment too ... about things that devs do not notice due to their orientation

drelisimo said:
Would the beta be available for everyone or just devs. We simple users can comment too ... about things that devs do not notice due to their orientation
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It is only for people who develop apps for WP7.
This release is not a beta version in the case of a beta test. Microsoft is not testing Mango.
Instead, they give developers early access to new features so that developers can start developing mango apps now.
That way when Mango is launched this fall, there will already be apps that take advantage of the new features.

So... what do you think the chances are...

As we close in on the 15th, I think two things will happen:
A) No Mango. The rumor-mill did it again.
B) Microsoft will STILL not have learned their lesson about replying to rumors.
They have to know what is being said on every single blog on earth. Type Mango into Google and it pulls up 500 news stories that say "durr will Sept 15 be release date??". Yet the closest thing I can find is a reply to a comment on the dev team blog. What happened to that guy who was hired after the NoDo fiasco to liaise with consumers?
Rule 1 in their position should be addressing rumors. No matter how small. Set up a "wp facts" page. Address the 15th rumor or whatever is next. By not, they're shooting themselves in the foot. I'm a cold-hearted cynic, and even I'm half convinced that it may actually begin being launched tomorrow.

A. I think the chance is rather high, but one never knows until that day gets here, right? That's what makes those rumors so power - the suspense of it. If it doesn't come people will just blame the carriers or OEMs. I think Microsoft was smart to say that their job was done, but they threw the OEMs and carriers under the bus in the process. Microsoft still has to approve the OTA even after the OEMs and Carriers do their thing, and there really isn't much to do since you they aren't allowed to bake in a ton of apps like on Android, WinMo/Symbian, and BB.
B. I think Microsoft thinks it helps them because it gets headlines, but when those days come and go the disappointment more than counters whatever was gained leading up to those days.

They did set up a webpage. Mango is not on it yet.

Just to answer your question. The guy they hired to be customer facing said in a blog post about a month and a half ago that he was going to maintain radio silence and "the next blog post will be the announcement that it is being released." A lot of good that's doing him.
While I wish they could have a concrete release date, I do wish they would at least deny dates. Sure it's our own fault for investing to heavily into unsubstantiated rumors, but they really could kill all of the speculation with one quick blog post.
Although the guys who said the release was this week have been spot on with their previous predictions, I may have to bet against this one.
Sent from my LG-C900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

A: Microsoft only have an estimate date of when Mango will be ready for roll out.
B: Microsoft will only roll out the update after it test the update infrastructure.

Lol @ test the update infrastructure.
No.
Also, "this fall" is not an estimated date. Fall is a season, not a month, not a week, and certainly not a date. It's a 3 month season and if they wish to pass that off as an estimated date, I guess it means they genuinely think their customers are idiots. An estimated date would be something along the lines of "the second week of September." "This fall..." That tells me nothing other than "we're giving ourselves a 3 month span so that if they ahve to wait until the dawn of Winter, we won't look like idiots."
But anyways, we've seen this tactic employed recently. Remember the Samsung US Galaxy S FroYo updates and #NeverAgain? Yea, that's basically what happened. I'm suprised WP7 users aren't furious they had to wait a whole year for an update, but this seems like a special kind of user base. Microsoft must be ecstatic they're given so much rope to play with (then again, they didn't sell 10M phones like Samsung, probably 3-4M in the US alone)...
Main issue is getting the update through the OEMs and carriers. Most OEMs already have the update ready, and they're even making new stock Mango phones.
Carriers are another deal, but I'm suprised it takes carriers so long with WP7 updates when they have a lot less stuff to test due to their inability to bake as much bloatware into the devices' ROMs and stuff like that.
Maybe the carriers are waiting for their partners (TeleNav, MobiTV, Slacker, Netflix, etc.) to get their apps Mango-ready before they approve it? Cause we all know they won't Okay the update if their subscription-based Value-Adds don't work correctly on it...

sure haven't said:
B) Microsoft will STILL not have learned their lesson about replying to rumors.
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Microsoft has a policy concerning rumors. That is they do not comment and that is the best policy.
If this rumor is true, MS might make an announcement in the next few days and then the download will be available. If that's the case, then there was no need to comment on the rumor and say "Yes Mango is coming this week, but we want it to be available shortly after we announced it so we're not announcing it today."
If the rumor is false, people might be pissed at MS but they have no reason to be so. We do not know who started the rumor and all we ever heard from MS was "fall".
Now if MS were to dismiss every incorrect rumor as soon as they can (to not get up expectations), a missing comment on a rumor would kind of mark it as true.
They only comment on rumors when the rumor really might leave many people disappointed, like the Xbox + blu ray thing a couple of years ago.
Xbox 360s have sold way better than Windows Phones and this Mango rumor might be a big deal for us enthusiasts, but apart from us that's that.

BTW, I saw someone yesterday or the day before casually toss out the 2 PM PST time for a Mango release. That rumor's now dead.

I have a feeling it will be released on the 20th

9/15 isn't mango day, that was another rumor, folks. We've been saying "fall"... it's not fall yet! http://t.co/ZcvBO5ys
From joebelfiore on twitter.
I5 launching around then. Theyre dumb.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

sure haven't said:
As we close in on the 15th, I think two things will happen:
A) No Mango. The rumor-mill did it again.
B) Microsoft will STILL not have learned their lesson about replying to rumors.
They have to know what is being said on every single blog on earth. Type Mango into Google and it pulls up 500 news stories that say "durr will Sept 15 be release date??". Yet the closest thing I can find is a reply to a comment on the dev team blog. What happened to that guy who was hired after the NoDo fiasco to liaise with consumers?
Rule 1 in their position should be addressing rumors. No matter how small. Set up a "wp facts" page. Address the 15th rumor or whatever is next. By not, they're shooting themselves in the foot. I'm a cold-hearted cynic, and even I'm half convinced that it may actually begin being launched tomorrow.
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Click to collapse
What lesson do they have to learn? They get free publicity, the only ones disappointed are the idiots that power the rumor mill.

fb401 said:
Just to answer your question. The guy they hired to be customer facing said in a blog post about a month and a half ago that he was going to maintain radio silence and "the next blog post will be the announcement that it is being released." A lot of good that's doing him.
While I wish they could have a concrete release date, I do wish they would at least deny dates. Sure it's our own fault for investing to heavily into unsubstantiated rumors, but they really could kill all of the speculation with one quick blog post.
Although the guys who said the release was this week have been spot on with their previous predictions, I may have to bet against this one.
Sent from my LG-C900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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by the way, that's the same guy that kept radio silence while the blog was exploding with angry people during the nodo update failure.
The best thing for EVERYONE, devs, users, shops, etc would be to a predetermined release date, well in advance too. Failing that, as the date closes in, more and more accurate time windows. Failing that too, bad enough as it is, at least dispel rumors. Because it's not like people are EXCITED about the update. People are IMPATIENT. And rightly so, you're putting out features that have been on every smartphone for a long time !

let face with it or without mango WP7 is never going to win much of the market share, I expect theres a few who will have renewed their contact & jumped OS's before the mango hits the consumer ?

Why are WP7 apps not updated that much often??

I know it's not easy being a developer and not everyone can be a developer but the the tons of apps at the marketplace that have been left abandoned by their responsible developers by not updating them just pisses me off. More than 50% apps at the marketplace don't get updates and they look real bad.
Lets take the official Twitter app for example; I really love this app but suffering with it coz it's too buggy and lacks lots of functions. I have contacted support many times but still no reply. Meanwhile, Twitter app on Android gets updated all the time to bring new features, lots of functions and bug fixes, they even had an update last week and it makes using the app just great, but I'm not an Android fan and I need to fight for my OS to have the best experience.
Facebook app just got updated after so many months of cries from users and I know it's gonna take a looooong time again for us to see another update from them although the app still needs work to be done. I have apps that I've never witnessed updates for since I upgraded from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone and it hurts me a lot and not that these apps are great, the need to be worked on. I mean, how can a developer abandon his/her app?? This developer carrier needs dedication and commitment and not everyone can be one.
We really need to update our apps very often to bring the best user experience and capabilities to all of us in order to enjoy our great OS. What can an OS do without good apps??
What do my fellow forumers think about this issue??

i guess it comes down to the apps you are downloading. I get annoyed with all the updates i receive all the time. I as a developer try to update my apps atleast once a month and introduce new features as i learn how to code them in. But in comes down to the person themself. Sometimes we are busy or other issues arise that delay our ability to update the app. But some devs are just lazy looking for a quick buck in my opinion.

just imagine you are a developer.
you have a job
you have friends
you have family
-> you don't have much free time
then you can look at the effort it took to develope the apps you already released.
in my case, i worked half a year (yet) on a project, that is still in beta
(i've to mention, it's my first project at all, just take it as an approximation)
Would you feel motivated when you know, that updating your application could costs months, and maybe you wont get rewarded at all because you are such an indulgent guy and made it free?
You also have to set priorities, hobby-development has to get in line.
like HackMimic said, there are developers that update all 2 weeks (possibly briefly developed), and those, who need some time to include more well written features.
and don't forget: how should the developers know, that a user misses smth in his app? most people don't rate/review apps, and when they do, you just read smth like:
"not working",
"useless",
"not worth the money"
...
nothing constructive
so it's hard to know what is missing in his own apps sometimes.
you see, there are a quite alot of things devs have to deal with.
Just try to develope on your own, when you feel there's something missing in marketplace. It's pretty easy
greets roqstr

roqstr said:
just imagine you are a developer.
you have a job
you have friends
you have family
-> you don't have much free time
then you can look at the effort it took to develope the apps you already released.
in my case, i worked half a year (yet) on a project, that is still in beta
(i've to mention, it's my first project at all, just take it as an approximation)
Would you feel motivated when you know, that updating your application could costs months, and maybe you wont get rewarded at all because you are such an indulgent guy and made it free?
You also have to set priorities, hobby-development has to get in line.
like HackMimic said, there are developers that update all 2 weeks (possibly briefly developed), and those, who need some time to include more well written features.
and don't forget: how should the developers know, that a user misses smth in his app? most people don't rate/review apps, and when they do, you just read smth like:
"not working",
"useless",
"not worth the money"
...
nothing constructive
so it's hard to know what is missing in his own apps sometimes.
you see, there are a quite alot of things devs have to deal with.
Just try to develope on your own, when you feel there's something missing in marketplace. It's pretty easy
greets roqstr
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Click to collapse
Hmm...it's not easy. App developing is just similar to my carrier as a research scientist. Hardly get time for anything and you really have to force yourself to do somethings. To tell you the truth, I don't even have a socialization life and that's very bad. All I do is play with my viruses and when I come home play with my windows phone. This life ain't good coz you really need to think about family and friends.....and your girlfriend.

Apps like Twitter get more updates on Android just because there are so many more ppl using Android.

Code as often and as much as you have fun on it. Don't force yourself to do so, results won't be the same.
Keep that in mind

Stepping down from ROM Development & Releases

Heya everyone,
As some of you know, I’ve been developing Android for the HTC Desire S for over a year now. Initially working alongside SuperKid, then maintaining CM7 alone. nk111 joined me as joint maintainer when developing CM9 and he has done a truly spectacular job with both CM9 and CM10. I cannot express how grateful I am to him for his tireless effort.
CM7 development was nice and straightforward, leading to a quick initial release. It rapidly reached a stable state and became an officially supported device with CM7.1. However, the the road to CM9/10 has been anything but smooth. Even today we rely on code to use both the older 2.6 kernel and Gingerbread libraries in ICS and JB. Whilst this code mostly works, the bugs and crashes keep the ROM from losing its alpha status. For example, issues with outdated touchscreen drivers, corruption in the Android interface, hard-crashes when using heavy 3D applications, and more.
HTC promised the official ICS upgrade for the Desire S in the June to July timeframe but, aside from a single chinese release, there hasn’t been any further progress. Whilst HTC have removed the release schedule from their website, they still publicly state they are committed to releasing the Desire S update:
We’re happy to confirm that we are still on schedule to deliver ICS to the Desire S. Stay tuned for more details!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However, the scheduled release was the June-July time-frame. I don't need to tell you that it's now August.
HTC have not been forthcoming with the 3.0 kernel source either, this is a key requirement for pushing forward ICS / JB development. The chinese ICS OTA brought hope that we would see this code sooner rather than later, but numerous attempts at contact with HTC have proven fruitless.
Development has largely stalled for me. The time spent on trying to port the Desire S to the 3.0 kernel taught me a lot, but ultimately lead to nothing. Aside from a couple of minor maintenance releases, I haven’t managed any real Android development in 2 months due to a complete lack of both motivation and time.
Regrettably I’ve decided to stand down as the maintainer for CyanogenMod. It’s been a wild ride over the past 12 months, I’ve met many new friends and learned a lot, but for now I feel it’s time to just be a regular user.
I still plan to hang around the XDA forums, help out where I can and keep in touch, but I won’t be doing ROM development or releases for the foreseeable future. What of CyanogenMod? nk111 has already agreed to take over as the full maintainer and my access to push changes won't be removed, so the door is open for the future. nk111 and I will discuss how to handle the CyanogenMod development threads tomorrow.
So before I end this post, there is one last thing I want to say, and it’s by far the most important:
Thank you to every single one of you who has sent kind messages, clicked that “Thanks” button, or parted with your hard-earned cash and sent a donation my way. It’s truly an honour to be part of this community. To see the work I’ve contributed to be used by tens of thousands of users is just an amazing feeling, I’m truly touched.
Thank you!

Sorry must break the trend...but
The amount and method of thanks that you've received (by button and not wasteful comments) shows that you're appreciated by those in the know - that count!
Others please take note!
Apologies for sounding like an arrogant [email protected], but this forum, especially the Development section would greatly benefit from this lesson.
Sywepd form my DsereiS

I am so sorry to hear this but I fully understand your reasons, this is no fortunate situation for anyone.
Thank you so very much for all the time and effort you've put in during this time, I know the whole community will miss your dedicated work!

Nexx said:
Heya everyone,
As some of you know, I’ve been developing Android for the HTC Desire S for over a year now. Initially working alongside SuperKid, then maintaining CM7 alone. nk111 joined me as joint maintainer when developing CM9 and he has done a truly spectacular job with both CM9 and CM10. I cannot express how grateful I am to him for his tireless effort.
CM7 development was nice and straightforward, leading to a quick initial release. It rapidly reached a stable state and became an officially supported device with CM7.1. However, the the road to CM9/10 has been anything but smooth. Even today we rely on code to use both the older 2.6 kernel and Gingerbread libraries in ICS and JB. Whilst this code mostly works, the bugs and crashes keep the ROM from losing its alpha status. For example, issues with outdated touchscreen drivers, corruption in the Android interface, hard-crashes when using heavy 3D applications, and more.
HTC promised the official ICS upgrade for the Desire S in the June to July timeframe but, aside from a single chinese release, there hasn’t been any further progress. Whilst HTC have removed the release schedule from their website, they still publicly state they are committed to releasing the Desire S update:However, the scheduled release was the June-July time-frame. I don't need to tell you that it's now August.
HTC have not been forthcoming with the 3.0 kernel source either, this is a key requirement for pushing forward ICS / JB development. The chinese ICS OTA brought hope that we would see this code sooner rather than later, but numerous attempts at contact with HTC have proven fruitless.
Development has largely stalled for me. The time spent on trying to port the Desire S to the 3.0 kernel taught me a lot, but ultimately lead to nothing. Aside from a couple of minor maintenance releases, I haven’t managed any real Android development in 2 months due to a complete lack of both motivation and time.
Regrettably I’ve decided to stand down as the maintainer for CyanogenMod. It’s been a wild ride over the past 12 months, I’ve met many new friends and learned a lot, but for now I feel it’s time to just be a regular user.
I still plan to hang around the XDA forums, help out where I can and keep in touch, but I won’t be doing ROM development or releases for the foreseeable future. What of CyanogenMod? nk111 has already agreed to take over as the full maintainer and my access to push changes won't be removed, so the door is open for the future. nk111 and I will discuss how to handle the CyanogenMod development threads tomorrow.
So before I end this post, there is one last thing I want to say, and it’s by far the most important:
Thank you to every single one of you who has sent kind messages, clicked that “Thanks” button, or parted with your hard-earned cash and sent a donation my way. It’s truly an honour to be part of this community. To see the work I’ve contributed to be used by tens of thousands of users is just an amazing feeling, I’m truly touched.
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for making me stick with my Desire S for more than 2 months

:') not just you, I'm also touched. See ya in the future brah

thank you for your works!!!!!!

Simon,
Your work on the Desire S has been greatly appreciated. Take care, and I hope all the best for you

Thanks a lot. You made a great job!

Thanks for all your hard work Nexx!

You made me love a phone more than I ever could imagine.
Thanks for all the efforts and keeping the Desire S in good hands