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Anyone make switch from Hermes to Vox?

Thinking about a change in form factor and trying out the Vox but I'd like to hear some experiences of anyone who went from Hermes/touchscreen to smartphone format.
I'd love to wait for the rumored 'wings' S730 but not sure that will ever see daylight.

I had the TyTN via my employer for a few months, but had to return it when I left that job. Got a S710 and I actually like that more than the tytn. I thought I would miss the touch screen but the vox is so easy to navigate that it's no problem.
rgards Björn

i have both the TyTN (cingular 8525) and the Vox in my hands.
I had the TyTN first as a replacement for my treo 600.
The TyTN is a wonderful device, but a bit too much for what I use it for (I dont even use data, so 3G doesn't matter to me). I mostly use WiFi for the occasional browse.
The TyTN definitely has a larger customization factor, which i miss with the Vox.
I thought speed would be a definite difference, but if you use OmapClock to ~250Mhz, it's a significant increase in performance.
Video playback works real nicely with TCPMP on the Vox too. Some video's i don't even need to convert. It may not be as powerful as the TyTN, but it's sufficient for my needs.
I like the Vox formfactor a bit better. The slider is much more secure, and the numeric keypad is something i missed on the TyTN.
Sometimes i catch myself tapping the Vox, forgetting there isn't a touchscreen, but the menu's and programs are very smartphone friendly, and I haven't had any problems navigating menu's as yet.
and for some reason, the screen on the Vox seems a bit nicer than on the TyTN. could be because the TyTN has the same resolution, but larger size, so it doesn't look as sharp.
i'm keeping the Vox, anyone want a TyTN?

anitanium said:
i have both the TyTN (cingular 8525) and the Vox in my hands.
I had the TyTN first as a replacement for my treo 600.
The TyTN is a wonderful device, but a bit too much for what I use it for (I dont even use data, so 3G doesn't matter to me). I mostly use WiFi for the occasional browse.
The TyTN definitely has a larger customization factor, which i miss with the Vox.
I thought speed would be a definite difference, but if you use OmapClock to ~250Mhz, it's a significant increase in performance.
Video playback works real nicely with TCPMP on the Vox too. Some video's i don't even need to convert. It may not be as powerful as the TyTN, but it's sufficient for my needs.
I like the Vox formfactor a bit better. The slider is much more secure, and the numeric keypad is something i missed on the TyTN.
Sometimes i catch myself tapping the Vox, forgetting there isn't a touchscreen, but the menu's and programs are very smartphone friendly, and I haven't had any problems navigating menu's as yet.
and for some reason, the screen on the Vox seems a bit nicer than on the TyTN. could be because the TyTN has the same resolution, but larger size, so it doesn't look as sharp.
i'm keeping the Vox, anyone want a TyTN?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does it compare, size wise, to the Hermes?

the tytn is a giant compared to it
its much lighter than the tytn, i barely notice it on my waist holster
about 1cm shorter and 1.5cm slimmer
about the same thickness though
i can take some pictures when i get home

I had both a Wizard and a Tytn before I bought this device.
Those are more of PDAs that can be used for phones calls.
This is more of a PHONE that can be used from some PDA functions.
I see the Hermes and Vox in 2 totally different categorys.
BUT
I do miss touch screen, and I miss the SPEED...
My vox seems really SLOW AND LAGGING! Does anyone else have this problem????? Is there some fix i need to add or a certain ROM I need to install to make the run smoother??
The complaints I have about this device is its performance! I also find it is alot harder to type with a substanitally smaller keyboard. As well, WHY DOES IT SLIDE OUT "THE WRONG WAY"????? And no flashlight for the camera.

use OMAPCLOCK to overclock the vox
i notice a substantial difference, especially when switching apps and playing videos, and landscape switch is faster too
and if you notice it lagging still, go to task manager and see what you have open
one thing about the tytn i liked is the ability actually CLOSE programs and free up ram, not have them suspended

anitanium said:
use OMAPCLOCK to overclock the vox
i notice a substantial difference, especially when switching apps and playing videos, and landscape switch is faster too
and if you notice it lagging still, go to task manager and see what you have open
one thing about the tytn i liked is the ability actually CLOSE programs and free up ram, not have them suspended
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No X-Button for WM6 Standard?

i switched from tytn to s710 too. only missing voice command DE on my vox, since ist is only avalible in english for smartphones.
S710 is more compact and better to use, due the normal phone keys. i like it more. the only bad thing is the 200 mhz cpu, which is not the fastest...
the battery lifetime is much better, even with data and bt switched on. I use data to sync my exchange 24/7
.

I got my Vox a few days ago
Size difference between Vox and TyTn is like a Poodle compared to a Great Dane - huge difference. I'd never carry my TyTn in my pocket but I do my Vox easily.
Speed is a huge problem with my Vox but I will try to overclock.
Fiddle Factor - pain in the but but kinda fun changing the Home screen .xml files so you can get it the way you want it -- I had to modify to get GoodLink stuff while keeping PhoneAlarm running.
WiFi worked well at first glance - for some reason I had more trouble with my TyTN.
Many programs (that probably would be fine since I often don't use the touch screen) won't install on the Vox. Does anyone know how to easily "force" a PocketPC program on a Smartphone ?? (I haven't exhaustively searched that question so just ignore if the answer is obvious).
I'll keep you posted on my first week of use. I'll keep my TyTn in my briefcase.

mikegoldnj said:
No X-Button for WM6 Standard?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello everyone, I'm an 1-week-vox owner.
Generally speaking I like the device very much, altough I am having some difficulties adapting from palm to WM6, and I must say I am a bit disappointed with WM6, namelly it is very slow and, something I found soooo odd and (sorry for sincerity) stupid: programs don't actually close/terminate when I close them (????).
So I have been searching the web for a program that would compensate that flaw (I consider it a flaw, at least the user should be given the option to configure the close button) and have tried:
magic Button
InClose
smClose
Running Programs 1
And, last but not least, HTC x-button.
None of these work on my s710, I guess it is because s710 is a smartphone and all those programs where designed for PPC.
Is there somewhere a WM6 for smartphone compatible program that makes the red-key actually close the programs? I don't need a task manager, just a simple, small app.
Thanks everyone

Square screen (320x320) on WM device, any experience?

I'm currently looking into getting a new handset, i have been carrying around both my XDA Orbit and my HTC S710 (Vox) for a while now, and want to move onto just having one handset. My criteria was simple, keypad or keyboard with dpad and touchscreen, gps and wifi. I found the perfect phone, the HTC Touch Dual. Which I assumed was perfect until I heard it had no wifi! (God damn HTC, silly mistake!, and although it also has no gps, i could easily just use my keyring gps!). So, reluctantly I had to find another handset and thus I did, the Samsung i780, its all perfect, BUT it has a square screen (320x320)! So I was wondering, does anyone here have any experience with square screens? For example what works well program wise and what doesnt? ect ect. Thanks in advance xda-developee's.
(Note to mods: If this is in the wrong section please feel free to move it, thanks)

320x320 is better than 240x240, but it's still an oddball. App compat is a problem. Attached is an app snap in 320x320, to give you an idea.

My main disappointment from the pics I've seen is that WM seems to treat it as a 240x240 square screen for compatability, so you still get 30% less lines on your today screen than you would on QVGA.
So, upgrading the screen from 320x240 to 320x320 actually gives you LESS text and icons on the screen! Only in the world of WM...

i managed to get my hands on a 320x320 device, and it doesn't like most of the apps that I run. so i have now seen a new hp phone im after, the ipaq 614c. hopefully it will be out soon.

I am also anxiously waiting for the HP614c. Any news by when we can expect it to become commercially available

I'm considering buying a i780, but this problem with WM treating it as a 240x240 screen is a bit troubling. Does anyone know if this will be the case in all applications (like IE, Opera, E-book readers etc.)? If it's only the today screen it's not too big of a deal (at least for me), but if other applications are affected it would be pretty bad.

Here's an interesting read on WM Team Blog about 320x320:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2007/03/02/320x320-revisited.aspx
Turns out they have a 128 dpi (versus 96 dpi on QVGA and 240x240 Pocket PCs).

I guess the question then becomes weather the DPI will affect other applications, or is it only the today screen that's affected? Is it possible to somehow change the DPI to 96 (which makes a lot more sense to me)?

The best pocketable laptop replacement

I am looking to upgrade my phone with something just a bit better, but I want to make sure I am upgrading, not losing out on features. So first I need a phone that has all of the same features but more.
I use my phone in lieu of a laptop on trips, as I am often in a situation where carrying a laptop is impractical, and I need something that can be shoved into a pocket at a moments notice.
Here are the features I have currently and I want in my new phone:
1. A Great Phone
This is by far the most important thing. A phone that has loud and clear voice quality, great reception, and picks up voice well. My phone currently I can use in the middle of a loud nightclub underground and still be able to have a conversation and great reception. This rules out the iPhone already.
2. Outlook 2007 Integration (or Outlook 2007 killer software integration)
This includes push email, desktop synced email, contacts with all fields, tasks, calendar and notes. I need them all.
3. Internet friendly
I use the internet constantly on my phone, browsing all day. I use Opera Mobile software, and it works great, even with tabs! Wether it is GPRS, EDGE or 3G, I can connectification.
4. Multimedia friendly
Windows media player converts and copies all the videos and music I want automatically and provides many great options for shuffling the music on the player automagically. I also use TCPMP for divx and youtube videos and the like with no problems.
5. Bluetooth A2DP
I swear by my stereo headset. I have no used a wired one in so long. Listening to music, wathcing videos and having phone conversations is so much easier with A2DP. This rules out the iPhone again.
6. Large capacity/storage cards
Currently 8GB microsd cards are avaliable for my phone, with a theoretical limit of 32GB.
7. Instant messengers
I use MSN, QQ, Skype and others on my phone. It is nice to be connected.
8. Wifi
for those times when 3g just aint enough.
9. Hardware keyboard
I message a LOT, so I need a device that caters to this. No onscreen keyboard can match the usability of a hardware keyboard (in my and most people's opinion)
10. Pocketable
This has to fit in my pocket easily. PReferably a suit inside pocket. My current phone is about 14mm thick and about 3.5 inches diagonal... smaller than many less functional phones.
11. Chinese/Asian language input
Perhaps this is just for me, but it an essential for me to be able to communicate in Chinese.
12. All the little things
All the little things that make the user experience better
- threaded sms
- autocomplete names, emails, numbers
- predictive phrases (not only words, the phone predicts sentence patterns as well)
- calling card support (adding prefixes, dialing predetermined numbers automatically)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Things I want in my NEW phone that my current phone lacks:
1. Speed
My phone slows to a crawl when I am doing too many things at the same time.
2. Bigger screen (3 inch+)
Watching videos on a 2.8 inch screen is fine, albeit too small. My eyes get tired after a while. Extra screen real estate would be better for surfiung the web as well.
3. GPS
Google maps is functional, but can only now give me a location based on my nearest cell. true GPS location finding would be a huge advantage, as I am often searching for locations.
So after all that, does anyone have any sugesstions on the perfect phone?

why not try a x7510 ?

boinger66 said:
why not try a x7510 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, looks interesting, if a bit big and heavy... I am looking further into it to see how pocket friendly it can be...

phony said:
Hmm, looks interesting, if a bit big and heavy... I am looking further into it to see how pocket friendly it can be...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly what you are looking for (I think)
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/HTC-Universal-phone-gallery-pg_1336.html
It´s not a new model, but till to this date not ANY phone has beaten Universal!!
Have a look mate
Cheers

orb3000 said:
This is exactly what you are looking for (I think)
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/HTC-Universal-phone-gallery-pg_1336.html
It´s not a new model, but till to this date not ANY phone has beaten Universal!!
Have a look mate
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anotehr vote for the Universal. IMHO it's better than the Advantage - and MUCH cheaper!

The Universal definitely does look like a great choice, the only thing would be it's lack of GPS and perhaps it is a tad bulky to have in a jeans pocket. Otherwise, I agree, the Universal seems like a top contender. What is the successor to the Universal?
Is is possible to upgrade the Universal with WinMo 6.1 and TouchFLO?
Also, I was leaning towards the HTC Raphael (Diamond Touch Pro), but the small screen still is a bit annoying... just a half inch more and I'd be happy.

The Universal definitely does look like a great choice, the only thing would be it's lack of GPS and perhaps it is a tad bulky to have in a jeans pocket. Otherwise, I agree, the Universal seems like a top contender. What is the successor to the Universal?
Is is possible to upgrade the Universal with WinMo 6.1 and TouchFLO?
Also, I was leaning towards the HTC Raphael (Diamond Touch Pro), but the small screen still is a bit annoying... just extend the screen to the edges more by a half inch...

HTC Touch Pro Issues (updated 23.11)

Hello,
I am a HTC Tornado user and I had in plan to buy TP.. but because of the TP's bugs I'll wait a while.. I really don't understand why HTC don't do more tests before release it?! Many of their issues are corrected by xda-dev community.
I want to gather all the issues in one topic, one post. This post will be edited as new issues/bugs are found. This will be useful for potential buyers - they should know that TP is not perfect. Ok, I will bypass the lack of the softkeys and the camera dedicated button. (you may ask, what's the sense to have softkeys if you can touch the buttons with your finger/stylus... but I will ask you back: what you will do if the application is in fullscreen mode? )
I know there's a topic for Raphel issues but It's hard to follow all the pages.. so here it's an summary. As I said, I want to update the list as more known issues are found. You can contribute with issues so I can update the post (post the way I posted so it will be easy to me to copy /paste..).
We should send this list to htc, maybe they will try to fix these bugs (many of them are software related)
The post will be slitted into two parts. Active problems and solved one.
This is not a complete list
I. CONSTRUCTION ISSUES
D-PAD design: Unresponsive buttons: every now and then the "right" button of the D-Pad does nothing, then suddenly it will start working again, same with the "Back" button though much more infrequent/noticable than the D-Pad issue I've experienced. HINT! -> HERE, or video here
Touch Pro wobbly keyboard issue
II. GENERAL MAJOR ISSUES
Poor GPS (chipset or software implementation?): ~50m+ lag, overheating gps, loose signal
Landscape redraw issue. Videos and more info HERE
poor directdraw, framebuffer/video performance. Just to make an idea: an old device from 2005 with omap 850 200mhz CPU performs better in this area than the touch pro @ qualcomm 528mhz. what a shame. The test were done in this topic (in romanian, sorry). CorePlayer was used for benchmark. I will summarize.
- HTC Tornado overclocked (262Mhz) max performance: 174.22%
- Touch Pro max performance: 172,67%
Both in Raw framebuffer mode. When used QTV it gains only 162,64%. How come?
It's pitty, 262Mhz from OMAP performs better than 528!!!Mhz from Qualcomm?!
The video used for tests is this one. (320x240 @ 25FPS)
Bugs with key mappings (on qwerty keyboard). This means you cannot use the qwerty for playing your favorite emulated & ported games (eg: DOS emulator, Picodrive, SNES, Doom 1, etc etc). WORK-AROUND: here
There's a damn 'break' (for <=1/2sec) at a (random) interval while listeing to music! This issue is also present in Diamond. More info HERE
low speaker/buzzer volume (lower than previous htc phones) WORK-AROUND: here
III. GENERAL MINOR ISSUES
Touch Flo 3D has slowdowns times
FM radio reception is not the best
Camera bug. More details here. Quote: "Camera application is buggy! Slow zoom, touch and focus works only after a dumb picture, after some focuses the auto focus stops to work. I tested it with 3 phones." (nickba)
TouchFlo3D calendar issue
IV. ISOLATED ISSUES (eg: doesn't happen to all, may be software or hardware related, not sure)
Random shutdowns during night or unresponsive device after overnight / long charge
Microphone has delay when answering calls (this seems to be network dependent - orange users seems to have this problem)
Some users claims that TP has bad reception
Broken Screen Issue
Device is hanging with horizontal grey stripes over the screen
V. HARDWARE ISSUES (eg: device/mainboard must be replaced)
Sometimes, when answering a call the phone "mute" itself. So, you wouldn't hear the caller voice. You have to soft reset the device.
Tips
It takes a while to find satellites position (take a fix). One solution is to use the Quick GPS app, but you need an active data connection.
Task Manager / TF3D terminates every running application. (Tip by vicott):
-- Use Advanced Configuration Tool
-- change "File system cache" la 8MB.
-- change "file system filter cache" la 131072.
-- change "Glyph cache" la 32KB.
-- Try to change HKCU > Software > HTC > Task Manager > EnableAutoKill = 0
You may check also "Raphael Tweaks" topic.
Other tweaking tools: Advanced Config Tool, Diamond Config.
Data was collected from different forums / threads. Big thanks to all the contributors.
Finally, too bad that dreams aren't true. TP does not deserve it's price. Don't get me wrong.. it has some really nice features but those bugs takes the device donw!
I really miss the old HTC..
-----
ISOLATED/DO NOT COUNT:
[*]LED under the "send" key does not work anymore

No offense, but if your going to jump the gun and be an early adopter with a brand new model in the tech realm, you need to expect some growing pains.
Also, most of those problems seem to be independent, and not all showing up on the same device, or many in general for that matter.
I applaud your effort in bringing all these issues to light with HTC, but you should take a more professional approach, because if you throw in a bunch of whining about price etc, your only going to hurt your cause.
Just my .02 cents.

I must agree the handset is over priced. Equal pda only devices are less than a third the price.
And with all the bugs its actually a real shame tbh.
I've already chose not to pay for the full cost of the phone ill get a contract with o2 when it comes out there [supposedly next month.]
And ill just deal with the bugs as they come....
Oh if this helps anyone The over night charge and then unresponsive bug. I dont think this is down to this phone alone. I had the exact same problem with my dell pda under winmob 6 [football]. Im guessing its a windows related bug.

Concerning the active point number 6 (Sometimes, when answering a call the phone "mute" itself), it is true it is quite annoying, but in the whole forum we are just 4 persons to have this problem, which is an acceptable margin.
Let's see how HTC deals with it. If they manage to repair it for good or change the device I'll be very happy and HTC will have proven they are more responsible than apple (with the Iphone 3G that has a lot of problems of reception under the 3G network)...

Theutus said:
but you should take a more professional approach,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theutus you are right. I am just upset because the problems of the latest devices from htc (pre-htc diamond&pro: video lag, etc).
You know the sensation... you want something so much and in final you found out that is not as you expected.. Anyway, post re-edited.
Thanks
@NutsyUK i leave my WM phone many times on charging over night and no problem. (though it's Standard version of WM)
@Flippy_TK that may be a random thing. Other persons maybe just happens not to occur that bug.. as it is random (again). Or your TC may be from a faulty series?

DSF said:
Theutus you are right. I am just upset because the problems of the latest devices from htc (pre-htc diamond&pro: video lag, etc).
You know the sensation... you want something so much and in final you found out that is not as you expected.. Anyway, post re-edited.
Thanks
@NutsyUK i leave my WM phone many times on charging over night and no problem. (though it's Standard version of WM)
@Flippy_TK that may be a random thing. Other persons maybe just happens not to occur that bug.. as it is random (again). Or your TC may be from a faulty series?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your frustration 100%, and I hope my post didn't come off as insulting in any way. I only meant that if your going to present a case to HTC for these issues, it should be in more of a "professional" layout.
If you need to blow off some steam on the forums, then by all means let her rip. I do think a majority of these issues will be resolved once the phone is released wordlwide, and more people can get their hands on them. After all, thats what xda does best.

RE
Yah! Add to that the contacts cannot be saved to the SIM card

@Theutus that's ok. The problem is WHY the community has to resolve their problems and not HTC?! Why we don't have a fully functional device right from the box?!
@FOSA thanks. I wait at least one more confirmation to be sure it's touch pro related and not one device related (due some personal actions or 3rd-party software).
I've visited the diamond section from this forum. I've seen many topics with issues.
WE MUST TAKE ACTION if htc does not care... What to do? Don't know.. spread the "bad news" world worldwide, start a petition listing all the problems.. etc.
It's really a shame, a time has passed since they've released Diamond and Touch Pro and htc does not care about the issues (history repeat, see http://www.htcclassaction.org ). They are busy releasing new devices (and I bet that those will be buggy too )

DSF said:
@Theutus that's ok. The problem is WHY the community has to resolve their problems and not HTC?! Why we don't have a fully functional device right from the box?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must be honest. This is my third HTC phone (after an S200 and a P3600) and it's the first time I can run a plain HTC stock ROM with almost no problems. I have had the phone for four weeks now and I am happy with it.
I agree that HTC can be very frustrating with their attitude of basically never fixing problems but in my opinion the out-of-the-box quality of the TouchPro is better than with their previous phones.

I'm with you. I've been happy with the out of the box rom and so far don't have any desire to change - well till we figure out if we can/can't get 3G on it.

So far week 2 out of the box is fine.
Minor issues have been fixed include
Screen lock when phone rings. This is a bad design by HTC
I seem to have an issue with MMS sending but I think thats my provider not sending the config codes correctly. The settings are there but if I try to send a message I get cant dial error. Lucky I don't send MMS that often. I am going to wait for my provider to support the phone before I make a big deal out of it

Great thread!!
I'll add my issues (plenty of them!!) when I have the time.
Thanks

One thing I probably expect is every ppc phone arrive with a bunch of problems, but most normal users do not encounter them at all.
A friend of mine had used the touch pro for the last two weeks, with the basic htc rom, no customisations at all, no tweaks and she's perfectly happy with it. She goes oh and ah at every little thing. She uses it to check her email, surf websites, log onto messenger and that's all. Before that, she was using a diamond and she felt it was a great phone.
People like us will feel the "lag" when we use touch flo. Normal users like her will not even care about it. They just wait for a while. If it does not work, reset the phone. As long as it can call, sms and do what they want reasonably, it does not really bother them.
For ppc geeks like us, we will just find fault and improved it. Remember threaded sms, it was wanted so badly last time, and now that it is in, people wants to go back to the normal sms.

desperation52 said:
Remember threaded sms, it was wanted so badly last time, and now that it is in, people wants to go back to the normal sms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True... one man's enhancement is another man's bug.
I've been using the TP for a month now. I'd say the hardware is great (except the front keypad, which is a little tacky). WM6.1 is also great (as mobile phone operating systems go). The HTC add-on software is buggy, but most of it is for funking-up the UI, and I can live without it. I'm sure it will get fixed. I have TF3D switched off, and it's pretty stable now.
I can easily "I wish it had X, like my Prophet", but then I still have the Prophet and I'm not going back to it. Or "I wish it did X, like my Nokia", but then my Nokia reboots consistently in the MP3 player and, if I switch time-zones to Central Europe and back, some birthdays in the calendar end up on the wrong day!
Any product like the TP is rushed out, as a commercial necessity. Think of how much money Sony Ericsson have lost from late delivery of the X1, as would-be X1 buyers (like me) have bought TPs instead. And I suspect that anyone expecting distinctly better quality from SE will be disappointed.
The TP isn't perfect, and it is not (yet) as good as it should be. But it is pretty good, even compared to devices from other manufacturers (Nokia, Sony Ericsson, etc.).
If you're waiting for a more solid device, I suggest you don't wait for another rushed device; wait for a better TP. Or, get a TP now, disable TF3D, and add some freeware to add the functionality you want - that's the beauty of WM. You'll probably still have a better device than you have now.
Cheers,
Graham.

graham.hughes said:
If you're waiting for a more solid device, I suggest you don't wait for another rushed device; wait for a better TP. Or, get a TP now, disable TF3D, and add some freeware to add the functionality you want - that's the beauty of WM. You'll probably still have a better device than you have now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not just the touchflo 3d... Really! Read the first post and take a deep look on the Raphael forum. You'll find many topics with TP issues and lots of frustrates.
GPS issues (lag, signal loss, overheat), music issues (tss™ htc effect), wrong keymap, low volume, etc etc!
I really want htc to take action and resolve the issues.
@illi thanks

I've got the thing, I know the issues. I also know how big a deal they are (which is bigger to some people than others), and how many of the issues can be worked around. I listen to MP3s, I use the GPS, I send and read email, and once in a while I even make a phone call! And I do all these things without trouble.
No argument from me... the bugs need fixing. But this device, I promise you, is not unusually buggy. It does have an unusually large number of features, and that will mean more bugs in total.
People are writing their hates on this forum; no one writes about what they like, love, or about niggles they can live with. If prospective buyers are reading this, I think it might be useful to have some balance.

i missed the OK bottun on the Keyboard !
why they put it out !???

My problems:
- of Right D pad not working sometime
- Time to get a fix 10x time to get a fix with my diamond
- No ringtone or vibrate when receive a private call

I Want This Feature Back
You could delete all mail (read/unread) with a single key in the Tornado. Whereas there is none in the TP; YOU HAVE TO DELETE ONE BY ONE... Imagine having 100s of emails that you want to delete. HOW MANY KEY STROKES to accomplish that?? I now have 100s of read emails that I want to delete. IMAGINE!!!

1. NEVER once were links from emails were successfully opened in Opera.
2. Is MSXML2 parser installed on TP? If not where to get it?

HTC Touch Pro or HTC Touch HD?

Hi guys,
I'm trying to pick between the two. The main problem I'm having is whether I'll miss having a physical keyboard. As I wont be able to have a play with either of these phones before I make a purchase I want to be completely sure that I'm picking the phone I'm going to prefer.
So whats your opinion? Is the HD's keyboard suitable for you?
Do you miss playing silly small games on your HD? How are games on the Pro?
Also another important thing for me is the performance, I heard the Diamond can be quite laggy (With the Touchflow, which I plan on turning off anyway) but I would still like to know if the Pro is just as bad as the Diamond, and whether the HD is a significant improvement!
Cheers,
Luke

diamond rocks
There is a small lag , BUt it again depends on wether the ROM is a light one or a packed one . There are many out here , lighter ones ..for eg V7 , and there is one other fact about these phones , that if you do have a lot of calender enteries and contacts ...it lags a little ...

Calender entries aren't a big deal, don't tend to take full advantage of the calender. Though I do have 60+ contacts.

Have Diamond and I like it but wish I'd waited for the HD. I don't miss the keyboard from the hermes much as I expected.

Keyboard
I'm using a Herald. During some days I used the Diamond keyboard SIP, but after a hard-reset I did not install it again.
I'm using the physical keyboard when sitting or stopping in a comfortable place (office, train, restaurant) and I must work a lot (i.e. writing some project memories or preparing some lectures); on other cases, I usually try to use the stylus. When at building, I fear about missing the stylus (or maybe missing myself) in some concrete reservoir or some hole, so I liked to use the Diamond keyboard SIP, to write some small notes. So, my experience is I use keyboard about 30% of my time.
Looking the HD and the Pro specifications, I suppose they don't defer more than in design and small details.
If you need to work as "at home", I suggest you to get the device with built-in keyboard.

Thanks for the replys guys.
As I do a fair amount of blogging and web browsing I have been thinking that the Pro might be best suited for me, but on the other hand I do use remote desktop a lot (From work to my home PC) so being able to use remote desktop "On-the-go" would be rather handy especially on the large screen of the HD.
Another question I have is how often do you Pro and Diamond users make use of the D-pad? It doesn't seem like it would have very much use on a touch screen WM device.

D-Pad? Hardly ever.