Hello,
I am a HTC Tornado user and I had in plan to buy TP.. but because of the TP's bugs I'll wait a while.. I really don't understand why HTC don't do more tests before release it?! Many of their issues are corrected by xda-dev community.
I want to gather all the issues in one topic, one post. This post will be edited as new issues/bugs are found. This will be useful for potential buyers - they should know that TP is not perfect. Ok, I will bypass the lack of the softkeys and the camera dedicated button. (you may ask, what's the sense to have softkeys if you can touch the buttons with your finger/stylus... but I will ask you back: what you will do if the application is in fullscreen mode? )
I know there's a topic for Raphel issues but It's hard to follow all the pages.. so here it's an summary. As I said, I want to update the list as more known issues are found. You can contribute with issues so I can update the post (post the way I posted so it will be easy to me to copy /paste..).
We should send this list to htc, maybe they will try to fix these bugs (many of them are software related)
The post will be slitted into two parts. Active problems and solved one.
This is not a complete list
I. CONSTRUCTION ISSUES
D-PAD design: Unresponsive buttons: every now and then the "right" button of the D-Pad does nothing, then suddenly it will start working again, same with the "Back" button though much more infrequent/noticable than the D-Pad issue I've experienced. HINT! -> HERE, or video here
Touch Pro wobbly keyboard issue
II. GENERAL MAJOR ISSUES
Poor GPS (chipset or software implementation?): ~50m+ lag, overheating gps, loose signal
Landscape redraw issue. Videos and more info HERE
poor directdraw, framebuffer/video performance. Just to make an idea: an old device from 2005 with omap 850 200mhz CPU performs better in this area than the touch pro @ qualcomm 528mhz. what a shame. The test were done in this topic (in romanian, sorry). CorePlayer was used for benchmark. I will summarize.
- HTC Tornado overclocked (262Mhz) max performance: 174.22%
- Touch Pro max performance: 172,67%
Both in Raw framebuffer mode. When used QTV it gains only 162,64%. How come?
It's pitty, 262Mhz from OMAP performs better than 528!!!Mhz from Qualcomm?!
The video used for tests is this one. (320x240 @ 25FPS)
Bugs with key mappings (on qwerty keyboard). This means you cannot use the qwerty for playing your favorite emulated & ported games (eg: DOS emulator, Picodrive, SNES, Doom 1, etc etc). WORK-AROUND: here
There's a damn 'break' (for <=1/2sec) at a (random) interval while listeing to music! This issue is also present in Diamond. More info HERE
low speaker/buzzer volume (lower than previous htc phones) WORK-AROUND: here
III. GENERAL MINOR ISSUES
Touch Flo 3D has slowdowns times
FM radio reception is not the best
Camera bug. More details here. Quote: "Camera application is buggy! Slow zoom, touch and focus works only after a dumb picture, after some focuses the auto focus stops to work. I tested it with 3 phones." (nickba)
TouchFlo3D calendar issue
IV. ISOLATED ISSUES (eg: doesn't happen to all, may be software or hardware related, not sure)
Random shutdowns during night or unresponsive device after overnight / long charge
Microphone has delay when answering calls (this seems to be network dependent - orange users seems to have this problem)
Some users claims that TP has bad reception
Broken Screen Issue
Device is hanging with horizontal grey stripes over the screen
V. HARDWARE ISSUES (eg: device/mainboard must be replaced)
Sometimes, when answering a call the phone "mute" itself. So, you wouldn't hear the caller voice. You have to soft reset the device.
Tips
It takes a while to find satellites position (take a fix). One solution is to use the Quick GPS app, but you need an active data connection.
Task Manager / TF3D terminates every running application. (Tip by vicott):
-- Use Advanced Configuration Tool
-- change "File system cache" la 8MB.
-- change "file system filter cache" la 131072.
-- change "Glyph cache" la 32KB.
-- Try to change HKCU > Software > HTC > Task Manager > EnableAutoKill = 0
You may check also "Raphael Tweaks" topic.
Other tweaking tools: Advanced Config Tool, Diamond Config.
Data was collected from different forums / threads. Big thanks to all the contributors.
Finally, too bad that dreams aren't true. TP does not deserve it's price. Don't get me wrong.. it has some really nice features but those bugs takes the device donw!
I really miss the old HTC..
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ISOLATED/DO NOT COUNT:
[*]LED under the "send" key does not work anymore
No offense, but if your going to jump the gun and be an early adopter with a brand new model in the tech realm, you need to expect some growing pains.
Also, most of those problems seem to be independent, and not all showing up on the same device, or many in general for that matter.
I applaud your effort in bringing all these issues to light with HTC, but you should take a more professional approach, because if you throw in a bunch of whining about price etc, your only going to hurt your cause.
Just my .02 cents.
I must agree the handset is over priced. Equal pda only devices are less than a third the price.
And with all the bugs its actually a real shame tbh.
I've already chose not to pay for the full cost of the phone ill get a contract with o2 when it comes out there [supposedly next month.]
And ill just deal with the bugs as they come....
Oh if this helps anyone The over night charge and then unresponsive bug. I dont think this is down to this phone alone. I had the exact same problem with my dell pda under winmob 6 [football]. Im guessing its a windows related bug.
Concerning the active point number 6 (Sometimes, when answering a call the phone "mute" itself), it is true it is quite annoying, but in the whole forum we are just 4 persons to have this problem, which is an acceptable margin.
Let's see how HTC deals with it. If they manage to repair it for good or change the device I'll be very happy and HTC will have proven they are more responsible than apple (with the Iphone 3G that has a lot of problems of reception under the 3G network)...
Theutus said:
but you should take a more professional approach,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theutus you are right. I am just upset because the problems of the latest devices from htc (pre-htc diamond&pro: video lag, etc).
You know the sensation... you want something so much and in final you found out that is not as you expected.. Anyway, post re-edited.
Thanks
@NutsyUK i leave my WM phone many times on charging over night and no problem. (though it's Standard version of WM)
@Flippy_TK that may be a random thing. Other persons maybe just happens not to occur that bug.. as it is random (again). Or your TC may be from a faulty series?
DSF said:
Theutus you are right. I am just upset because the problems of the latest devices from htc (pre-htc diamond&pro: video lag, etc).
You know the sensation... you want something so much and in final you found out that is not as you expected.. Anyway, post re-edited.
Thanks
@NutsyUK i leave my WM phone many times on charging over night and no problem. (though it's Standard version of WM)
@Flippy_TK that may be a random thing. Other persons maybe just happens not to occur that bug.. as it is random (again). Or your TC may be from a faulty series?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your frustration 100%, and I hope my post didn't come off as insulting in any way. I only meant that if your going to present a case to HTC for these issues, it should be in more of a "professional" layout.
If you need to blow off some steam on the forums, then by all means let her rip. I do think a majority of these issues will be resolved once the phone is released wordlwide, and more people can get their hands on them. After all, thats what xda does best.
RE
Yah! Add to that the contacts cannot be saved to the SIM card
@Theutus that's ok. The problem is WHY the community has to resolve their problems and not HTC?! Why we don't have a fully functional device right from the box?!
@FOSA thanks. I wait at least one more confirmation to be sure it's touch pro related and not one device related (due some personal actions or 3rd-party software).
I've visited the diamond section from this forum. I've seen many topics with issues.
WE MUST TAKE ACTION if htc does not care... What to do? Don't know.. spread the "bad news" world worldwide, start a petition listing all the problems.. etc.
It's really a shame, a time has passed since they've released Diamond and Touch Pro and htc does not care about the issues (history repeat, see http://www.htcclassaction.org ). They are busy releasing new devices (and I bet that those will be buggy too )
DSF said:
@Theutus that's ok. The problem is WHY the community has to resolve their problems and not HTC?! Why we don't have a fully functional device right from the box?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must be honest. This is my third HTC phone (after an S200 and a P3600) and it's the first time I can run a plain HTC stock ROM with almost no problems. I have had the phone for four weeks now and I am happy with it.
I agree that HTC can be very frustrating with their attitude of basically never fixing problems but in my opinion the out-of-the-box quality of the TouchPro is better than with their previous phones.
I'm with you. I've been happy with the out of the box rom and so far don't have any desire to change - well till we figure out if we can/can't get 3G on it.
So far week 2 out of the box is fine.
Minor issues have been fixed include
Screen lock when phone rings. This is a bad design by HTC
I seem to have an issue with MMS sending but I think thats my provider not sending the config codes correctly. The settings are there but if I try to send a message I get cant dial error. Lucky I don't send MMS that often. I am going to wait for my provider to support the phone before I make a big deal out of it
Great thread!!
I'll add my issues (plenty of them!!) when I have the time.
Thanks
One thing I probably expect is every ppc phone arrive with a bunch of problems, but most normal users do not encounter them at all.
A friend of mine had used the touch pro for the last two weeks, with the basic htc rom, no customisations at all, no tweaks and she's perfectly happy with it. She goes oh and ah at every little thing. She uses it to check her email, surf websites, log onto messenger and that's all. Before that, she was using a diamond and she felt it was a great phone.
People like us will feel the "lag" when we use touch flo. Normal users like her will not even care about it. They just wait for a while. If it does not work, reset the phone. As long as it can call, sms and do what they want reasonably, it does not really bother them.
For ppc geeks like us, we will just find fault and improved it. Remember threaded sms, it was wanted so badly last time, and now that it is in, people wants to go back to the normal sms.
desperation52 said:
Remember threaded sms, it was wanted so badly last time, and now that it is in, people wants to go back to the normal sms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True... one man's enhancement is another man's bug.
I've been using the TP for a month now. I'd say the hardware is great (except the front keypad, which is a little tacky). WM6.1 is also great (as mobile phone operating systems go). The HTC add-on software is buggy, but most of it is for funking-up the UI, and I can live without it. I'm sure it will get fixed. I have TF3D switched off, and it's pretty stable now.
I can easily "I wish it had X, like my Prophet", but then I still have the Prophet and I'm not going back to it. Or "I wish it did X, like my Nokia", but then my Nokia reboots consistently in the MP3 player and, if I switch time-zones to Central Europe and back, some birthdays in the calendar end up on the wrong day!
Any product like the TP is rushed out, as a commercial necessity. Think of how much money Sony Ericsson have lost from late delivery of the X1, as would-be X1 buyers (like me) have bought TPs instead. And I suspect that anyone expecting distinctly better quality from SE will be disappointed.
The TP isn't perfect, and it is not (yet) as good as it should be. But it is pretty good, even compared to devices from other manufacturers (Nokia, Sony Ericsson, etc.).
If you're waiting for a more solid device, I suggest you don't wait for another rushed device; wait for a better TP. Or, get a TP now, disable TF3D, and add some freeware to add the functionality you want - that's the beauty of WM. You'll probably still have a better device than you have now.
Cheers,
Graham.
graham.hughes said:
If you're waiting for a more solid device, I suggest you don't wait for another rushed device; wait for a better TP. Or, get a TP now, disable TF3D, and add some freeware to add the functionality you want - that's the beauty of WM. You'll probably still have a better device than you have now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not just the touchflo 3d... Really! Read the first post and take a deep look on the Raphael forum. You'll find many topics with TP issues and lots of frustrates.
GPS issues (lag, signal loss, overheat), music issues (tss™ htc effect), wrong keymap, low volume, etc etc!
I really want htc to take action and resolve the issues.
@illi thanks
I've got the thing, I know the issues. I also know how big a deal they are (which is bigger to some people than others), and how many of the issues can be worked around. I listen to MP3s, I use the GPS, I send and read email, and once in a while I even make a phone call! And I do all these things without trouble.
No argument from me... the bugs need fixing. But this device, I promise you, is not unusually buggy. It does have an unusually large number of features, and that will mean more bugs in total.
People are writing their hates on this forum; no one writes about what they like, love, or about niggles they can live with. If prospective buyers are reading this, I think it might be useful to have some balance.
i missed the OK bottun on the Keyboard !
why they put it out !???
My problems:
- of Right D pad not working sometime
- Time to get a fix 10x time to get a fix with my diamond
- No ringtone or vibrate when receive a private call
I Want This Feature Back
You could delete all mail (read/unread) with a single key in the Tornado. Whereas there is none in the TP; YOU HAVE TO DELETE ONE BY ONE... Imagine having 100s of emails that you want to delete. HOW MANY KEY STROKES to accomplish that?? I now have 100s of read emails that I want to delete. IMAGINE!!!
1. NEVER once were links from emails were successfully opened in Opera.
2. Is MSXML2 parser installed on TP? If not where to get it?
Related
Hi,
While I am waiting for my MDA Pro to arrive, I have been reading a lot in the Universal section (have a BA myself).
May I ask for some valid reasons why someone would want to use homebrewed WM6 releases instead of official/customized WM5?
I do understand the fun it is to try out new things, but is it really worth it? I did not find many posts that would clear this question.
Thanks,
vma
WM6.0...
The new look and a lot faster device...
Is there any feature that won't be available with WM6, that did work fine in WM5?
Thanks,
vma
Video call isn't working yet.
Rolud said:
The new look and a lot faster device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way I see it, WM6 may or may not work for you and may or may not do it for you. Try it. You can always go back to WM5. Most people don't.....
Well .... the simple answer is that I did a lot of searching and reading, and finally tried it out for myself.
I asked this very question a while ago right here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1130569&postcount=88
And came to the follwowing conclusion:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1155497&postcount=89
In the conclusion, the thing about the Bluetooth Stack / Voice Command - it was actually Voice Command that was the problem and this issue was fixed in Jrwightmcps' 2.02.00 WWE http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=297256
Crossbow ONLY!
Tell you the truth... i see the new WM6 is better eye-catching GUI not to mention the enhancement in the functionality and other usability such as email related functions. I know that MS wont just upgrade for no obvious reason nor for desktop OS compatibility.
Yet i reckon i wont -never- go back to magento! Crossbow ONLY!
@nvatvani:
Indeed your posts where the only ones I read, that contained some usefull info about the subject.
No offense to all the other members of course!
I was simply wondering about what to do when my MDA Pro arrives: replace the German firmware with a WWE WM5 one or go straight ahead to WM6 without even looking at WM5.
Also, I had some problems with my Blue Angel, when I tried WM5 on it: it may have been a coincidence, but one day after the upgrade the screen went mad and totally messed up. Only 1 Hardreset in about 100 tries would bring it back to normal for some period of time and even reflashing it with WM5 or 2003SE would not make it work normal again. The screen would get messed up suddenly for no particular reason. At the end I had to send it in for repair, which was actually a good thing, as I complained about the loose stylo and bad working hardkeys, all within warranty. I got a new key-pcb, backside and they reflashed the device with 2003SE. I posted this issue in the BA forum, but got no usefull hint. This means I am a little scared of upgrading to unofficial releases.
Other than that, I have no problems with flashing, as I do that on my other hobby (satellite receivers) frequently, including JTAG-operations for repairing bricked devices. The same applies to games consoles. (Note: I do not sell or benefit commercially from that activity and my goal is not to get illegal software or TV - not that you guy's get the wrong idea about me).
Anyway, thanks for your replies!
Cheers,
vma
What Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU 2.0 has and Windows Mobile 6 (the cooked ones, having tried them all) doesn't have, according to my experiences:
1. Videocalling - at least not a proper one
2. Bluetooth Dial Up Networking (the DUN profile)
3. Wireless Modem (yet some WM6 ROM's have it, although without shortcut in the start menu)
4. Cyberon Voice Dial by default (some WM6 ROM's have it by default, others will need a 500kB CAB to activate it)
The reason why I went back to "good old" WM5 is mainly the reliability. Ok, the OS may be a bit slower here and there, but it has all the functionality (e.g. videocalls and Bluetooth DUN), and NEVER hangs. It just always works and that's what I desperately need right now.
---
The things Windows Mobile 6 has for me that 5.0 hasn't which I miss the most:
1. High resolution browsing in the normal Internet Explorer (I don't want to use alternatives)
2. HTML email support
3. The impressive speed of the OS
Applications like WM6's Windows Live and the superb Remote Desktop Client are also available for WM5, so I don't need to miss those, otherwise I sure would, and then I might have sticked with WM6.
The new sounds and GUI are great, but I don't really miss them, since that's not a true functional thing.
Having WM5 up and running again, without freezes and memory leaking and with full HTC Universal functionality, is enough for me to be happy with it and to stick with it. If there ever will be a ROM that actually ADDS Windows Mobile 6 on top of all of this (without a single registry tweak or CAB fix needed), then it's the time for me to upgrade again.
If such a ROM will ever see the daylight, since it won't be officially available for the Universal, I don't know. I think the HTC X7500 (Athena) will be there sooner (April 2007 over here), and that one will have a official WM6 upgrade for sure. That'll be my next one, so until then: WM5 for my Universal!
So far for my opinion.
why do I use WM6
vma said:
Hi,
While I am waiting for my MDA Pro to arrive, I have been reading a lot in the Universal section (have a BA myself).
May I ask for some valid reasons why someone would want to use homebrewed WM6 releases instead of official/customized WM5?
I do understand the fun it is to try out new things, but is it really worth it? I did not find many posts that would clear this question.
Thanks,
vma
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, I used them all and later delteted them after 5 2 hours. They leak a lot, ram is at minimum and useless third party applications, and a lot fo thing sodn't really work or missing (I just want a vanill aone without 3rd party applications).
Except for one rom, Darkforce, it is fast and furious, and so far I have using it for two days; battery usage is good, and no leaks. However, no video calling, and no way to set com ports for bluetooth devices. any1 has this problem?
However, common to all ROMS, no video calling, old calculator, speed dial messed up (some work and some don't), wireless connection bubble missing (yes you can install a cab but I don't want to do that).
<Mind you, contrary to other reports, I never had any freezes with any rom.
The thing that attracts me is HTML in email, High resolution mode in explorer, better remote desktop connectivity.
So I thhink I am sticking with DarkForce ROM, so far so good.
Thx
Hi all, i have a HTC Touch Cruise and have problems with the cube. The problem is that it is no cube. When i activate the TouchFLO-interface with the Sweeping from bottom to top-procedure it just fades down the today-screen to black and then displays one of the sides of the "Cube". If i sweep from side to side, it just fades out the current page and fades in the new page, there is no actual cube animation. I installed some software called TFLOSettings (Touch Settings), and according to that program i do have the 3D Cube animation activated -- Still, in TouchFLO i get no cube, only fade effects. :disappointed: :broken: :makingevilplotstopunishtheworld:
Anyone have any ideas how i can get the 3D cube effect to work with TouchFLO?
Additional information that perhaps might be usefull knowledge in this matter is that, when i received the device TouchFLO was actually deactivated and i had to activate it in the registry under "HKEY_Local_Machine/Software/OEM/TFLOSettings/EnableCube" (that key was 0 when i recieved the device).
(also, i do hope that i posted in the right place now)
Did you ever hard reset your device since you received it?
All your data is lost when you do that but it is the faster way to know if the ROM installed have the cube working.
Kukatrap said:
Did you ever hard reset your device since you received it?
All your data is lost when you do that but it is the faster way to know if the ROM installed have the cube working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Kukatrap, many thanks for the reply. Unfortunately i cannot do hard reset since the device have been issued as special aid by the County Councils (Landsting) to help me to overcome difficulties with my memory. They have special software for this, and i fear this software will be lost if i do a hard reset. And in case the device will be restored with their special aid programs intact and installed, the device will be in the same state as when i received it, and then TouchFLO was totally deactivated.
Perhaps i have to install some animations or something to get the 3D to work.
Oh! I understand.
Well... not exactly what you are looking for but you can try installing this cube http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358102.
Looks like this cube is better than the default one, at least is easier to configure.
Regards.
MargotSchnyder said:
Hi Kukatrap, many thanks for the reply. Unfortunately i cannot do hard reset since the device have been issued as special aid by the County Councils (Landsting) to help me to overcome difficulties with my memory. They have special software for this, and i fear this software will be lost if i do a hard reset. And in case the device will be restored with their special aid programs intact and installed, the device will be in the same state as when i received it, and then TouchFLO was totally deactivated.
Perhaps i have to install some animations or something to get the 3D to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems that you you have the Swedish rom as you refer to the Landsting. I have the same problem with my swedish TC and can't get the animation to work with 3x4 grid athough it works fine with standard config. I have made hard reset but that's no change. I belive it is a rom issue and the development ot the program is ceased so no patch is expected.
Plse inform if you think the other cube program is worth testing.
Good Luck
andbertina said:
Seems that you you have the Swedish rom as you refer to the Landsting. I have the same problem with my swedish TC and can't get the animation to work with 3x4 grid athough it works fine with standard config. I have made hard reset but that's no change. I belive it is a rom issue and the development ot the program is ceased so no patch is expected.
Plse inform if you think the other cube program is worth testing.
Good Luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi andbertina, yes, i do indeed have a swedish device. Further more, i begin to suspect that the company (GEWA) that delivers the device to the Landstinget deliberately has crippled the Operating System in a couple of ways. I think they have done this to avoid TouchFLO to accidentally start up causing confusion and so on, because the main target groups to receive this device from Landstinget are mentally challenged people, people with various cogitative difficulties, people with dementia, people that recovers from stroke or people with various types of autism-related difficulties.
MargotSchnyder said:
Further more, i begin to suspect that the company (GEWA) that delivers the device to the Landstinget deliberately has crippled the Operating System in a couple of ways. I think they have done this to avoid TouchFLO to accidentally start up causing confusion and so on,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems like reasonable move, even if it might not look correct.
TouchFLO/Cube is nice and usefull, as long as person is completely aware of it's abilities.
If person has lover than average technical skills, TouchFLO/Cube can be very confusing. Not to mention if there is also some mental problem.
But, on the other hand, I don't see any sense why Landstinget choosed Polaris? Or any device with TouchFLO/Cube.
For targeted users they should have chosen as simple as possible devices...
Seems to me that, you need to keep you device in tact w/o doing any accidental hard resets... If that's the case, I wouldn't tinker with it at all! I especially wouldn't install 3rd party cubes or 3rd party config software. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to hard reset my phone due to software not optimised properly for my phone. I try to stick with manual registry edits when I want something done.
But if you insist on experimenting to get the TouchFlo Cube to work, I strongly suggest installing Sprite Backup, and backing up your device before proceeding any further.
Doubleposted
Bodisson said:
But, on the other hand, I don't see any sense why Landstinget choosed Polaris? Or any device with TouchFLO/Cube.
For targeted users they should have chosen as simple as possible devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is in reality not The Landstinget that has chosen the HTC, but rather the company that customizes them, develop the special aids program and delivers them to The Landstinget, and i guess they choose it because it has most things like phone, radio, camera, GPS and so on. A while ago they had HP iPAQ RW6815 as hardware platform, but since that model is no longer in stock they choosed HTC Touch Cruise as replacement. They also have PDAs (without camera and phone) from HP, those PDAs preceded the more advanced models, and they are all Windows Mobile based, so it was natural to continue the development on Windows Mobile phones i guess (more job to write the special aids software from scratch on a new platform).
And i'm not going to complain, i really like it, i love the practically "limitless" possibilities of Windows Mobile, and since it's subscribed to me to aid me with my memory problems, the calendar in Windows mobile suits me better than anything in the special aids program, so i do not use the special aids program at all.
sonus said:
Seems to me that, you need to keep you device in tact w/o doing any accidental hard resets... If that's the case, I wouldn't tinker with it at all! I especially wouldn't install 3rd party cubes or 3rd party config software. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to hard reset my phone due to software not optimised properly for my phone. I try to stick with manual registry edits when I want something done.
But if you insist on experimenting to get the TouchFlo Cube to work, I strongly suggest installing Sprite Backup, and backing up your device before proceeding any further.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found some information about this matter yesterday, and apparently the special software will be reinstalled as on delivery by a hard reset, the manuals for the software mentions this procedure as a possible remedy if the device starts to act up really bad. So i feel a bit more brave to experiment now.
How is the new experience with the TP? Is it worth the money for the average Joe? Which features are notoriusly superior? Thanks for any details...I´m on the fence about the upgrade....
asolano895 said:
How is the new experience with the TP? Is it worth the money for the average Joe? Which features are notoriusly superior? Thanks for any details...I´m on the fence about the upgrade....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a similar thread asking the same/similar question - do a search.
1. Missing key mapping, kaiser can map a hardware key u want, TP cannot. (no app support remap hard key on TP)
2. Slow, rearly slower than kaiser, may be 640 x 480 device more hungry?
3. Keyboard miss "win" key & "ok" key.
Yana said:
1. Missing key mapping, kaiser can map a hardware key u want, TP cannot. (no app support remap hard key on TP)
2. Slow, rearly slower than kaiser, may be 640 x 480 device more hungry?
3. Keyboard miss "win" key & "ok" key.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 can be done through registry editing or using a program like (AEBPlus) I think it was?
3, the American version has that. :O
Oops, just realized the OP is from CR, so the American version won't help him much.
asolano895 said:
How is the new experience with the TP? Is it worth the money for the average Joe? Which features are notoriusly superior? Thanks for any details...I´m on the fence about the upgrade....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for the average joe I guess lots of eye-candy goodness for VGA, but still slow imo when using touchflo3d. Still need to get used to TomTom in VGA.. it's renders the streets really small compared to my tytn II before!
asolano895 said:
How is the new experience with the TP? Is it worth the money for the average Joe? Which features are notoriusly superior? Thanks for any details...I´m on the fence about the upgrade....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pleased with TP, as it open up more options for VGA and G-Force appliaction. I used to flash a lot of ROMs since I was using Kaiser, but I am quite satisfied with TP original rom, only doing some tweaking here and there...
I agree that the speed is slower than Kaiser, but I believe with more people using TP, there will be better solution in XDA. Would everyone agree on this?
Black93300ZX said:
1 can be done through registry editing or using a program like (AEBPlus) I think it was?
3, the American version has that. :O
Oops, just realized the OP is from CR, so the American version won't help him much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AEButton Plus can't map more than a few hard keys on the face and sides of a device, as far as I know (and I have it installed on my Mogul)
I don't regret going from my Kaiser to the TP at all.
After following some of the "Tweaks" suggested in the below threads and installing most of the programs to my memory card I honestly don't feel a speed difference.
I just see the TP as the Kaiser done properly - OK anything running on WM will have small bugs, but as ecoline said the more poeple using the TP the more we'll clear the bugs and improve the TP's performance.
Raphael Tweaks
Advanced Configuration Tool v3.2
Tweak collection for the HTC Touch Pro
Another thing I want to add-- TP is like Kaiser buffed for VGA processes. Bigger images to render = more power and memory to do it. All of my contacts in my Kaiser has a full screen contact picture for S2U2, and checking them in TP they've been reduced about 1/3 their size. It was fast browsing them, but as soon as I changed the pictures to match the size of my TP screen browsing them was slow. S2U2 for VGA needs more memory than the QVGA.
So it's like using Kaiser but VGA. Still slow in my standard, but lots of VGA goodness
I found the Kaiser with Touchflow 2D installed (along with the other cabs for all the other apps that are on the Touch Pro) was actually a lot nicer to use. The screen updated instantly (e.g scrolling left and right on the tf bar, you could see the cursor under your finger and the screen always kept up); whereas on the Pro you see the cursor follow your finger and the screen update is about 12 frames a second.
All in all, with the Kaisers screen update and finger following speed makes Touchflow a nicer experience.
But.... the Touch Pro screen is fantastic and in VGA which makes everything so crisp. The keyboard is even better than Kaisers and has full querty 5 lines. The look of the phone is sexy for once. The size of the phone is much better even though it is only 1cm shorter (a couple of mm thinner and it would be perfect). The camera actually takes good pictures that I actually keep, the first for a camera on a phone for me, though the LED flash is just like any other - bit of a gimmik. Everything else hardware wise is at least as good as on the Kaiser or better.
In my first week I found the Touch Pro to be very buggy and slow. It's crashed a couple of times, freezed for no apparent reason (from 1 to 20 seconds), the screen update in the interface is slow and annoying, the finger detection sometimes seemed to miss now and then making it annoying to use at times. Typing messages would freeze randomly at about 100 typed chars intervals and then come back 10 seconds later!!!
Sounds bad doesn't it?
But, I have since fixed most of the problems. Have since upgraded to the DXS v15 ROM, done a few of the tweaks from this forum, fixed the typing freeze bug by turning WiFi power to "best performance" (strange but it fixes it). I'm hoping the WiFi power setting fixes other freezes I've experienced.... time will tell. I've even managed to stop it auto connecting to GPRS data with Pocket Toolman 2 (I have have to pay for data on my contract), prefer to use WiFi, this should be an option in Windows Mobile but isn't.
Now, after a lot of fiddling the phone seems to be very usable, dare I say very nice to use. My main gripe is that the interface doesn't run quicker with fast screen update and have better finger input accuracy from being faster. I can't see why this can't be fixed, if the Youtube app can show videos at 20fps (or whatever it is) whilst downloading & decoding mpeg and read the touch screen, why doesn't Touchflow manage to display 10 2d image at a decent framerate (as you finger scroll the bar to select the view, all it is doing is displaying static screens to show which you have selected).
Oh, and there are a couple of things missing or wrong with the Touchflow apps too. For instance, the 3d email view is very nice but there is nothing to show which emails in the view are unread; And there is no way to tell if you are at the first or last email.... or any other. The image view needs an option to rotate the image (it rotates if you turn the phone, but if the image is wrong and needs rotating, it will just rotate to the screen orientation and still be wrong). The email view does really need updating as it is like a dumb blonde - pretty but useless, you end up having to go into the normal email list view to actually manage your emails.
I'll conclude with this though: At the end of the day I wouldnt go back the the Kaiser, the Touch Pro is much sexier, nice to hold and show. The usability is pretty good after you update and tweak it. I can only see things improving with updates. And as for worth the money, Vodafone do the phone free with 600 mins & unlimited texts on a £35 contract..... great value to me.
Having never dared to change my device's rom for warranty reasons, and not having been able to do any official upgrade as my kaiser was an operator version ( SFR aka Vodafone ) I must say I am very satisfied with my touch Pro. I find it superior to the Kaiser in EVERY aspect comparing two official roms : so much better battery life, much better performance even if the resolution is much better, instant landscape to portrait switching...
The GPS is said to be worst (but I didn't ever manage to make it work correctly on the Kaiser anyways).
There are some small issues compared to the Kaiser :
- the softkeys are missing (right and left keys above internet and mail keys on the kaiser - an issue for some games but in fact it was a windows mobile 5 phone edition standard and has been deprecated, so recent software work perfectly without these)
- no scrollweel on the left side and that's a real loss. The central button can be used as a "virtual scrollweel" as it is touch sensitive but it only works with opera and is not very comfortable to use. However some third party utilies can map the volume slider, not very useful in my opinion, to up and down keys.
- The four front pannel keys and directionnal keys are physical but behind the same big plastic cover, which means the whole bottom half cover of the phone presses on a button. This means the directional keys, wich are in the center of this plastic cover are nearly useless...
Reminds me of some Apple mice...
BUT
- Touchflo 3D is an extremely good addition, eye candy and actually really useful (the preview of the mails for example is really excellent). A lot of great software additions compared to Kaiser.
- Having an FM radio too is a nice feature...
- Everything looks so much better in VGA... Even QVGA apps (games) are filtered so that you don't see big ugly pixels. And it's not just a question of look. Excel can actually be used with this resolution, and web browsing - with opera - is actually possible. On the kaiser it isn't, not just for a question of software or speed...
- The new keyboard is WAY better, specially if you need to type special caracters like in french.
- I had a Fujitsu Siemens Pocket Look 720 before buying the Kaiser, the idea being not to have a phone and an organizer in my pockets all of the time, but I was disgusted with this phone which wasn't up to my expectations, inferior in many aspects to my FS pocket PC, I found it ugly, slow, too much power consuming, with a horrible screen, and of bad material quality: one of the small plastic clips of the battery panel got quickly broken... Not to mention those missing hardware drivers.
I thought I would never buy an HTC ever again.
But I did, and now I can get rid of my Fujitsu Siemens pocket pc which was so good but is now in every way inferior to my new phone (well apart from the big screen - but that's not good for a phone - and the 3.5 jack)
pfcsabre said:
Not for the average joe I guess lots of eye-candy goodness for VGA, but still slow imo when using touchflo3d. Still need to get used to TomTom in VGA.. it's renders the streets really small compared to my tytn II before!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tomtom already has software specifically made for the VGA/touchpro screens in beta, will be released sometime in November according to them.
Tomtom Navigator 7 posted here actually leaked (extracted) from HTC Diamond since Jun 20, 08. The newer version 7.451.9033 (VGA and QVGA) is available also.
Yup its like a Kaiser with everything fixed, looks better and is more usable in daily use. Very happy with mine.
I read from this article:http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/31/apple-to-release-fix-for-iphone-sms-vulnerability-on-saturday/
It says the vulnerability impacts our WM phone as well. Anyone has checked that and if fix is available? Tried using Google to search our beloved forum but didn't pop up anything yet ..
I read about this too and if it can be patched that quickly on Android then I'd hope it should also be a quick patch on WinMo, especially as the SMS functionality is implemented in pretty much the same way apparently.
Plus XDA has people who are working with Android so maybe they can share what changes Google have made?
I am fairly surprised this hasn't been picked up by the technical bods here as it is quite a major vulnerability and Apple and Google have patched their OS's so WinMo is trailing behind... unless someone knows of a patch thats already been done?
I'm going to PM some mods I know ..
Any response from them yet?
Our good Dave is going to check with some resident expert.. and hopefully some lights to be shed.
From the info I gathered, it actually result in DOS for iPhone and Android, but no news/confirmation on WM yet. So we don't know. However, given the method explored by the author, it's likely at minimum resulting the same (DOS, phone hung, etc.). I think, for phone user, this is critical, as you can't spend your day checking the phone always just to make sure it's still connecting to network/operators.
From what I read the vulnerability could allow for remote code execution including reading your phone's storage and activating cameras and gps. So someone could write an app that send this information back via the data connection and that person could be watched and tracked without knowing that there were compromised.
This is obviously worst case scenario but I for one would sit on the paranoia side of the fence and get it plugged. If we can.
From what I got and discussion, it's mostly DOS.
However, IMO, it still scary. You can't be contacted nor SMS-ed without you realizing until you need to initiate call/ connection.
For someone most of the time on receiving side (doctors, etc) it's really a danger. I do hope our resident expert can find out something, as I don't think MS will be doing it.
You may want to read this article where they interview one of the guys that found the vuln...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/hacking-iphone-security,2384.html
(Linked from Slashdot -
Specifically this bit on page 4...
Charlie: Collin's framework also works on Android and WinMobile. We found some denial of service bugs in Android (which we reported and are fixed) and a pretty bad bug in the way HTC WinMobile phones handle SMS messages containing the format specifier %n. That's a fun one because you don't need any special tools to send the malicious message, just use your phone to text your buddy with %n and their TouchFlo (application manager) will crash and won't come back up.
Starfury said:
Specifically this bit on page 4...
Charlie: Collin's framework also works on Android and WinMobile. We found some denial of service bugs in Android (which we reported and are fixed) and a pretty bad bug in the way HTC WinMobile phones handle SMS messages containing the format specifier %n. That's a fun one because you don't need any special tools to send the malicious message, just use your phone to text your buddy with %n and their TouchFlo (application manager) will crash and won't come back up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, tested the %n story, didn't crash anything on my Topaz WM 6.5 manila 2.5
So regarding manila 2.5 it's: fud
EqX
the-equinoxe said:
Well, tested the %n story, didn't crash anything on my Topaz WM 6.5 manila 2.5
So regarding manila 2.5 it's: fud
EqX
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the current HTC handsets come with WM6.1 now as standard, either HTC or Operator flavoured. As this is a forum for all HTC devices on WM5.0/6.0/6.1/6.5 can we have some testing done on stock ROM's on stock devices please?
I'm going to send a %n text to my buddy's phone and see.
At least now the thread is getting some attention. My concern is for people (like me) that rely more on receiving call/SMS than making call/sending SMS. A crashed network connection will result in no phone at all.
How'd the testing go and any movement on patching?
Just sent myself a %n message but nothing happened. On TPC v10.9 on M2D (Mega's M2D)
My friend is now using custom ROM .. so no try there. I don't have OEM that has M2D ..
What about just trying it on a bog standard WM6.1 OEM ROM from an operator.
Can do .. later perhaps when I'm changing ROM again. I thought it only crashes M2D? No OEM for Kaiser has M2D ..
Reviving this thread because iPhone is vulnerable. Not sure if IE also on our Kaiser? Opera?
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14663
It's just crossing my mind this idea to downgrade from WP7 to WM6.x. Yes, it has been told that this two platforms are completely different thing, on hardware and software base. But, after looking at the HD2 forum that is dedicated to HD2s update from WM6.5 to WP7 the idea just could be right.
Switching from WM6.5 to WP7 made me nostalgic for WM6.5 and it's programs, settings... Well, I guess that, as a lot of people, I haven't asked around about WP7 enough to see how it works and what it gives. But, I do like this phone, and especially 1GHz processor, 5MP camera, touch screen and other things (o yeah the battery is much better) that it comes hard to me to have this mighty thing that is all locked up. It could be that in a year or so, from now, it will be better than WM6.5 but considering all that time needed to get it close to WM6.5 and original idea to create WP7 (to make it easy-to-use and lot less custom) it stands on this OS just like gray cloud.
Just wanted to write this, and if someone shares my opinion I would be most glad to hear about it.
Maybe it will be possible to get to WM6.5...
nope cant be done sorry. just install the mango beta it blows wm6.5 out of the water.
Yes, I do try to think like that, and then I realize that I need SatNav. And, no GPS navigation software can't be installed, for time being, there is no Garmin, IGo, TomTom...
I'll definitely stick to this phone, and Mango I'll update. Hope it'll make my life simpler.
mendoza1 said:
Yes, I do try to think like that, and then I realize that I need SatNav. And, no GPS navigation software can't be installed, for time being, there is no Garmin, IGo, TomTom...
I'll definitely stick to this phone, and Mango I'll update. Hope it'll make my life simpler.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Garmin StreetPilot is now in Marketplace for a hefty $39.99, but unfortunately still does not include fully installed maps. Maps can however be downloaded ahead of time to the phone for the relevant route.
for unlocked device you have Navigon select...
My Arrive came with TeleNav. And the built in Bing stuff does turn by turn (with an upgrade coming in Mango). I don't see GPS apps as being an issue.
Yeap, now the future looks better.
as longer I use WP7 the more I wish a downgrade to WM6.5!!!
Where is my (momentary VERY needed) possibility to use tethering!? How do I synch "get away ALL your music and videos, blahblah..." all my things WITHOUT the scrapy Zune-SW, and (haha!) how I can increase the memory for it!?
****ty menues (just 5 stupid icons -what I there are several, much more options!?!?), it's not possible for the developers to install a dedicated database (so you have to make it "in the cloud") -yeah!!!! It's SO stupid on a MOBILE phone, as there often is the possibility that you're NOT online, or with GPRS or EDGE only -and it is SO funny if you're in a train and all 5 secondy it switsh from G to E to G3 to G to HSDPA. The last ****! :-(
The IE on it often don't work. Hmmm -let's use Opera. Uuuh -damned -I forget: you can't install ANYTHING!!!
OK -exceptional jailbreak, but I never did it before, and I don't want it -but I HAVE to do it, if I want to USE my phone.
I think it's better to reactivate my HD2 -there is ALL functionable, without any problems. And: it contains much data that i need -and there is NO possibilty to migrate SMS (i.e.) to WP7 -VERY poor performance Microsoft!!!!
Groby said:
as longer I use WP7 the more I wish a downgrade to WM6.5!!!
Where is my (momentary VERY needed) possibility to use tethering!? How do I synch "get away ALL your music and videos, blahblah..." all my things WITHOUT the scrapy Zune-SW, and (haha!) how I can increase the memory for it!?
****ty menues (just 5 stupid icons -what I there are several, much more options!?!?), it's not possible for the developers to install a dedicated database (so you have to make it "in the cloud") -yeah!!!! It's SO stupid on a MOBILE phone, as there often is the possibility that you're NOT online, or with GPRS or EDGE only -and it is SO funny if you're in a train and all 5 secondy it switsh from G to E to G3 to G to HSDPA. The last ****! :-(
The IE on it often don't work. Hmmm -let's use Opera. Uuuh -damned -I forget: you can't install ANYTHING!!!
OK -exceptional jailbreak, but I never did it before, and I don't want it -but I HAVE to do it, if I want to USE my phone.
I think it's better to reactivate my HD2 -there is ALL functionable, without any problems. And: it contains much data that i need -and there is NO possibilty to migrate SMS (i.e.) to WP7 -VERY poor performance Microsoft!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow where to start. this is probably the most ignorant post I've read on here thus far and with poor grammar at that. my arrive has had wonderful performance since the day I got it and it has improved even further since I installed the mango beta. the live tiles are awesome makes android and iOS seem like nothing but app launchers, the whole concept of apps is overrated and I can do a lot of things without having to even launch an app. and IE9 runs circes around opera. especially the one on WM.
eric12341 said:
wow where to start. this is probably the most ignorant post I've read on here thus far and with poor grammar at that. my arrive has had wonderful performance since the day I got it and it has improved even further since I installed the mango beta. the live tiles are awesome makes android and iOS seem like nothing but app launchers, the whole concept of apps is overrated and I can do a lot of things without having to even launch an app. and IE9 runs circes around opera. especially the one on WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... It's not the performance that is question. But, it's functionality. Migrating from WM6.5 to WP7 should, at least I thought, have been compatible, eg. SMS, Connection settings (WiFi, Phone...), Contact (I've had to do it the old fashion way, by typing contacts manual / an then I found out about sync with WLive ).
It feels like I have powerful thing (excellent hardware), but it does non better than Nokia 3310. Just raw speed, for basic things.
Hi eric -I'm not a native speaker (english) -but give us some probes from your netherlands, german and french
But as I can see, you're able to read what I wrote, and thats what matter.
But back to topic: What sense is in a phone that is unusable in much functions DIRECTLY. For everyone -not just for people which have the time, the skills und of course the desire to make an jailbreak (which causes lost of guarantee), rebuild the phone several times, have so read several manuals, howtos and search for betas, previews.
I'd tried the Desire Z (just because of the same why I buy the 7 Pro -it's a type & touch) -and send it bach 2 days later to amazon. It's exactly what you wrote: just app-launchers! I hate apple., because of their "we tell you what to do" -and with WP7 it cames to me. I don't wanna do a jailbreak -but I didn't have an alternative (if I want to USE the phone) :-(
Maybee other people have the possibility and time to try the mango beta -and it seems that I MUST do it, or I have to sell the phone (what will make me very sad -a VERY good piece of hardware!!)
Groby said:
Hi eric -I'm not a native speaker (english) -but give us some probes from your netherlands, german and french
But as I can see, you're able to read what I wrote, and thats what matter.
But back to topic: What sense is in a phone that is unusable in much functions DIRECTLY. For everyone -not just for people which have the time, the skills und of course the desire to make an jailbreak (which causes lost of guarantee), rebuild the phone several times, have so read several manuals, howtos and search for betas, previews.
I'd tried the Desire Z (just because of the same why I buy the 7 Pro -it's a type & touch) -and send it bach 2 days later to amazon. It's exactly what you wrote: just app-launchers! I hate apple., because of their "we tell you what to do" -and with WP7 it cames to me. I don't wanna do a jailbreak -but I didn't have an alternative (if I want to USE the phone) :-(
Maybee other people have the possibility and time to try the mango beta -and it seems that I MUST do it, or I have to sell the phone (what will make me very sad -a VERY good piece of hardware!!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
odd,i didn't have to do any of that when I got my Arrive. just open the box, enter my live ID and I was good to go. wp7 is not an app launcher as almost everything can be done without even having to go into an app. with the mango beta which is easy to install i can identify a song that's playing, a product for the best price,get directions somewhere (even in malls),find something to do in the area, buy movie tickets,search the web and watch html5 videos in HD quality,check my Facebook,chat on Facebook and check in. and many other things. install the mango beta and u'll feel much better about it.
Hold on. The core of any smartphone are applications. Staring with earliest versions of WM, Symbian, iOS, Android, Droid, WP7, they all the same with a final porpoise, and that is an application/s.
Therefore calling other systems "apps launcher" is contradiction. Because doing anything with a WP7 is being done via apps. Home screen is, just as in any other mobile system, a pile of shortcuts with a weather and the clock. The truth is that some systems are doing it, app launching, better than the others.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
With all of its hardware, as WP7 requires to run, this phone, or any WP7, will in the future be something good.
If you've played with WP7 enough, you'll find that the live tiles really preclude you from needing to actually launch the associated apps unnecessarily. Because of this, the commenter was calling the other Mobile OS versions more of an "app launcher" because, in general, you need to launch the app to interact with it. (Google has widgets, but those widgets aren't quite the same.) With WP7, you can glance-and-go (one of the tenants that MS imparted into the Metro design) and only launch apps when there is a required interaction. It really is a different approach, and one that I think works very well.
Please give some comparison for WP7 and other mobile OS (mOS).
As hard as I try, and I do like to play around with WP7, I just can't find anything that makes WP7 better than other mOS.
Eg. When email or SMS arrive, on WP7s homescreen shows a count of these items, and on the other hand, Symbian do just the same. So, where is the difference?
So far, the only thing that is obviously better are things-apps that have something to do with the internet (Windows Live, Email, Internet Explorer, Youtube) or with the 1GHz processor (apps do work better with stronger processor, so by having stronger processor apps work better and it isn't because of WP7).
you sound like you're determined to be underwhelmed by wp7. yes, when you get an SMS, the homescreen tells you that you have one....that's what phones do. What more is there for a phone to do with an sms?
WP7 is highly innovative from a UI standpoint. What you seem to be interested in, however, is the menu-heavy micromanaging style of old school winmo. If you want to be able to micromanage every last little thing about your phone go to a different platform. WP7 does everything it is purported to do, if you are not getting what you wanted, then you didn't do your homework before you dropped god-knows-how-much on a phone. these days, it's not about which platform is better, it's about preference. It's getting to the point where every platform can do all the really important things really well. so how do you want your phone to look? that's what you're buying.
Don't get me wrong, but what you are saying is what I've been saying. That is, WP7 as any other mOS is not new in functionality but it is different in GUI. Other qualities are not available to be seen, since there are no apps which can show it.
For now, WP7, only offers basic features.
I have been wondering the same thing since the 1 st rumors of windows phone 7 but still a no go. Its ironic ms stripped away so many of the things that made wm only to get beat out by the former clone of themselves....android. I love the form the tp2 & wish they wouldve released an hd2 with a keyboard. They shouldve stripped the name windows,hired a special team that managed themes system wide so that u have eye candy without it being resource heavy & hired a marketing team that would make apple & google have nightmares.
pimppoet said:
I have been wondering the same thing since the 1 st rumors of windows phone 7 but still a no go. Its ironic ms stripped away so many of the things that made wm only to get beat out by the former clone of themselves....android. I love the form the tp2 & wish they wouldve released an hd2 with a keyboard. They shouldve stripped the name windows,hired a special team that managed themes system wide so that u have eye candy without it being resource heavy & hired a marketing team that would make apple & google have nightmares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what they are doing with the mango update that's near release and the beta is already out and I find that im able to do just as much if not more than WM6.5 and android (former TP2 owner and loved it, had an EVO **** for a week and hated it).
Hi,
I followed eric12341's suggestion and have the mango-beta installed (and have buyed a developer account, to make side-loads possible). And some things were better (slow was it not before -hey, it have a 1GHz CPU, it HAVE to be fast ), but there are so many things which waste time. If I want to have a (exact) look of charging, I have to go through some menue-points. As I often in transit by railways, I have to set date several times, and the WM-calendar (and to set the time) is MUCH more effective, as I didnt't have to use the annoying slider-gadgets. Maybe it looks nice, but it waste much time. Before it was just 3 tips, no it's an orgy -the possebility to change the style would be great! And local database for apps -to find the connecting-train while you have no network (and EVERY thing have to be found over network when you want to set start and target of you travel, because of the impossebillity of local databases) is a horror! Before: 10 seconds, now 3 minutes -or longer, as often there is no network in the train. :-(
And unfortunately many very good (sideload)-apps will not longer work after mango. And when I can make a backup from my data, if I want to upgrade memory, or have to change it (because of defectivs, i.e.). And not all of my friend have Zune installed, but they have good music, pdf's or anything else for me. The next thing I was wondering: why I can only set my own ringtons for calling? What'a about SMS, email, and so on?? ^^
Sorry for the bad english -hope it was not to hard to read. :-(
Groby, thanks for the info. I was looking for some info about Mango.
Navigating via online updating is absolutely annoying. It takes for ever to download map, and there are no detailed maps, but only hi-ways and few byways.
I looks like this operating system is way out from it's time, for about good year or so.
If developers could make downgrade to WM 6.x, it would make this phone a dream.