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What simple organizer for a woman ?

My sister has been asking me for a while to find her first electronic organizer, but knowing her I can't give something too techy and complicated. She will barely connect it to her PC very often.
Main requirements are : calendar, notes and I suppose contacts.
Camera is a plus.
Do you know of an "easy" girly phone, that is not too geek like most of the ones we have ?
like the equivalent of the Palm Zire for instance, these ones were just doing the basics if you didn't look behind the shell.
thanks.

Does she want WM5, Palm, Symbian? Does it need to have a phone and if so does it need to be 3G?

Maybe something like HP iPaq 1950?
It is a WM5 device but it's one of the basic ones, no phone / GPS / BT (has WIFI though).
It's pretty stable so no need for "tech" stuff if you only want to use it as an organizer and it is very compact.
Plus if she wants to add some games or something later that will work too.

Don't underestimate women. My beautiful wife (yes she dose read this forum ) has had XDAI, XDAII and atom. She is not very good with understanding how computers work but still manages to work all the features of ppc's. The main question would probably be the price. Here the HP version of the atom (I can't remember name) is probably the cheapest pda phone and its got all the features.

Well, I'm not sure about your sis, but as far as I know, girls look for looks on things they use. So, probably the Zire22 are small and girlish enough for her to use. I personally used both Palm and Windows PDA. In organiser wise, I find Palm's builtin PIM is better and clearer. However, unless you get the advance version of Palm PDA (eg TX), your sis maybe having problem with the handwriting 'mechanism'.
Anyway, for Windows based PDA, I think it is very basic anyway. You just key in the required field without the need to know other things. If you are to use the PIM without much of your personal requirement, you won't need to do things like reg hack And, I find that girls can seems to tolerate things that they don't know (eg, they hardly customize a PC, though they seems to like to customize a bf). The most they want to do is to make them look pink.
Ask your sis, which PDA she likes (eg the looks and size, and colour) and it may help you in choosing. Let her have a look on the PalmZ22, as I remember, there are `converted` wives with Z22. It doesn't have a camera though.
http://euro.palm.com/uk/en/products/z22/domore.html

I agree with Hanmin
the look is more important,
I will check with her first of all.
I used a Palm for years before PPC and yes.. I forgot about the letter recognition :-(
thanks for your help guys !

if u want phone capibility and camera and ability to choose the colour of the device (it comes in white, red, orange, and silver) go with the upcoming treo 680.....its palmOS based though..
i think for a very basic user windows mobile is not good. for example activesync and hotsync......

Hum, in my mind the choice will be hard
Bring her in a shop and show her the main differences about capabilites, look and ... prices...
Sometime we want a very simple things but when we discover advanced features, we want ALL ! A geek is sleeping in all of us

Have a look at the o2 Stealth.

Just wondering, any updates on this? What is the one she chosen ?

Anyone coming from the TyTN II or Kaiser?

How is the new experience with the TP? Is it worth the money for the average Joe? Which features are notoriusly superior? Thanks for any details...I´m on the fence about the upgrade....

asolano895 said:
How is the new experience with the TP? Is it worth the money for the average Joe? Which features are notoriusly superior? Thanks for any details...I´m on the fence about the upgrade....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a similar thread asking the same/similar question - do a search.

1. Missing key mapping, kaiser can map a hardware key u want, TP cannot. (no app support remap hard key on TP)
2. Slow, rearly slower than kaiser, may be 640 x 480 device more hungry?
3. Keyboard miss "win" key & "ok" key.

Yana said:
1. Missing key mapping, kaiser can map a hardware key u want, TP cannot. (no app support remap hard key on TP)
2. Slow, rearly slower than kaiser, may be 640 x 480 device more hungry?
3. Keyboard miss "win" key & "ok" key.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 can be done through registry editing or using a program like (AEBPlus) I think it was?
3, the American version has that. :O
Oops, just realized the OP is from CR, so the American version won't help him much.

asolano895 said:
How is the new experience with the TP? Is it worth the money for the average Joe? Which features are notoriusly superior? Thanks for any details...I´m on the fence about the upgrade....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for the average joe I guess lots of eye-candy goodness for VGA, but still slow imo when using touchflo3d. Still need to get used to TomTom in VGA.. it's renders the streets really small compared to my tytn II before!

asolano895 said:
How is the new experience with the TP? Is it worth the money for the average Joe? Which features are notoriusly superior? Thanks for any details...I´m on the fence about the upgrade....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pleased with TP, as it open up more options for VGA and G-Force appliaction. I used to flash a lot of ROMs since I was using Kaiser, but I am quite satisfied with TP original rom, only doing some tweaking here and there...
I agree that the speed is slower than Kaiser, but I believe with more people using TP, there will be better solution in XDA. Would everyone agree on this?

Black93300ZX said:
1 can be done through registry editing or using a program like (AEBPlus) I think it was?
3, the American version has that. :O
Oops, just realized the OP is from CR, so the American version won't help him much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AEButton Plus can't map more than a few hard keys on the face and sides of a device, as far as I know (and I have it installed on my Mogul)

I don't regret going from my Kaiser to the TP at all.
After following some of the "Tweaks" suggested in the below threads and installing most of the programs to my memory card I honestly don't feel a speed difference.
I just see the TP as the Kaiser done properly - OK anything running on WM will have small bugs, but as ecoline said the more poeple using the TP the more we'll clear the bugs and improve the TP's performance.
Raphael Tweaks
Advanced Configuration Tool v3.2
Tweak collection for the HTC Touch Pro

Another thing I want to add-- TP is like Kaiser buffed for VGA processes. Bigger images to render = more power and memory to do it. All of my contacts in my Kaiser has a full screen contact picture for S2U2, and checking them in TP they've been reduced about 1/3 their size. It was fast browsing them, but as soon as I changed the pictures to match the size of my TP screen browsing them was slow. S2U2 for VGA needs more memory than the QVGA.
So it's like using Kaiser but VGA. Still slow in my standard, but lots of VGA goodness

I found the Kaiser with Touchflow 2D installed (along with the other cabs for all the other apps that are on the Touch Pro) was actually a lot nicer to use. The screen updated instantly (e.g scrolling left and right on the tf bar, you could see the cursor under your finger and the screen always kept up); whereas on the Pro you see the cursor follow your finger and the screen update is about 12 frames a second.
All in all, with the Kaisers screen update and finger following speed makes Touchflow a nicer experience.
But.... the Touch Pro screen is fantastic and in VGA which makes everything so crisp. The keyboard is even better than Kaisers and has full querty 5 lines. The look of the phone is sexy for once. The size of the phone is much better even though it is only 1cm shorter (a couple of mm thinner and it would be perfect). The camera actually takes good pictures that I actually keep, the first for a camera on a phone for me, though the LED flash is just like any other - bit of a gimmik. Everything else hardware wise is at least as good as on the Kaiser or better.
In my first week I found the Touch Pro to be very buggy and slow. It's crashed a couple of times, freezed for no apparent reason (from 1 to 20 seconds), the screen update in the interface is slow and annoying, the finger detection sometimes seemed to miss now and then making it annoying to use at times. Typing messages would freeze randomly at about 100 typed chars intervals and then come back 10 seconds later!!!
Sounds bad doesn't it?
But, I have since fixed most of the problems. Have since upgraded to the DXS v15 ROM, done a few of the tweaks from this forum, fixed the typing freeze bug by turning WiFi power to "best performance" (strange but it fixes it). I'm hoping the WiFi power setting fixes other freezes I've experienced.... time will tell. I've even managed to stop it auto connecting to GPRS data with Pocket Toolman 2 (I have have to pay for data on my contract), prefer to use WiFi, this should be an option in Windows Mobile but isn't.
Now, after a lot of fiddling the phone seems to be very usable, dare I say very nice to use. My main gripe is that the interface doesn't run quicker with fast screen update and have better finger input accuracy from being faster. I can't see why this can't be fixed, if the Youtube app can show videos at 20fps (or whatever it is) whilst downloading & decoding mpeg and read the touch screen, why doesn't Touchflow manage to display 10 2d image at a decent framerate (as you finger scroll the bar to select the view, all it is doing is displaying static screens to show which you have selected).
Oh, and there are a couple of things missing or wrong with the Touchflow apps too. For instance, the 3d email view is very nice but there is nothing to show which emails in the view are unread; And there is no way to tell if you are at the first or last email.... or any other. The image view needs an option to rotate the image (it rotates if you turn the phone, but if the image is wrong and needs rotating, it will just rotate to the screen orientation and still be wrong). The email view does really need updating as it is like a dumb blonde - pretty but useless, you end up having to go into the normal email list view to actually manage your emails.
I'll conclude with this though: At the end of the day I wouldnt go back the the Kaiser, the Touch Pro is much sexier, nice to hold and show. The usability is pretty good after you update and tweak it. I can only see things improving with updates. And as for worth the money, Vodafone do the phone free with 600 mins & unlimited texts on a £35 contract..... great value to me.

Having never dared to change my device's rom for warranty reasons, and not having been able to do any official upgrade as my kaiser was an operator version ( SFR aka Vodafone ) I must say I am very satisfied with my touch Pro. I find it superior to the Kaiser in EVERY aspect comparing two official roms : so much better battery life, much better performance even if the resolution is much better, instant landscape to portrait switching...
The GPS is said to be worst (but I didn't ever manage to make it work correctly on the Kaiser anyways).
There are some small issues compared to the Kaiser :
- the softkeys are missing (right and left keys above internet and mail keys on the kaiser - an issue for some games but in fact it was a windows mobile 5 phone edition standard and has been deprecated, so recent software work perfectly without these)
- no scrollweel on the left side and that's a real loss. The central button can be used as a "virtual scrollweel" as it is touch sensitive but it only works with opera and is not very comfortable to use. However some third party utilies can map the volume slider, not very useful in my opinion, to up and down keys.
- The four front pannel keys and directionnal keys are physical but behind the same big plastic cover, which means the whole bottom half cover of the phone presses on a button. This means the directional keys, wich are in the center of this plastic cover are nearly useless...
Reminds me of some Apple mice...
BUT
- Touchflo 3D is an extremely good addition, eye candy and actually really useful (the preview of the mails for example is really excellent). A lot of great software additions compared to Kaiser.
- Having an FM radio too is a nice feature...
- Everything looks so much better in VGA... Even QVGA apps (games) are filtered so that you don't see big ugly pixels. And it's not just a question of look. Excel can actually be used with this resolution, and web browsing - with opera - is actually possible. On the kaiser it isn't, not just for a question of software or speed...
- The new keyboard is WAY better, specially if you need to type special caracters like in french.
- I had a Fujitsu Siemens Pocket Look 720 before buying the Kaiser, the idea being not to have a phone and an organizer in my pockets all of the time, but I was disgusted with this phone which wasn't up to my expectations, inferior in many aspects to my FS pocket PC, I found it ugly, slow, too much power consuming, with a horrible screen, and of bad material quality: one of the small plastic clips of the battery panel got quickly broken... Not to mention those missing hardware drivers.
I thought I would never buy an HTC ever again.
But I did, and now I can get rid of my Fujitsu Siemens pocket pc which was so good but is now in every way inferior to my new phone (well apart from the big screen - but that's not good for a phone - and the 3.5 jack)

pfcsabre said:
Not for the average joe I guess lots of eye-candy goodness for VGA, but still slow imo when using touchflo3d. Still need to get used to TomTom in VGA.. it's renders the streets really small compared to my tytn II before!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tomtom already has software specifically made for the VGA/touchpro screens in beta, will be released sometime in November according to them.

Tomtom Navigator 7 posted here actually leaked (extracted) from HTC Diamond since Jun 20, 08. The newer version 7.451.9033 (VGA and QVGA) is available also.

Yup its like a Kaiser with everything fixed, looks better and is more usable in daily use. Very happy with mine.

HTC Touch Pro or HTC Touch HD?

Hi guys,
I'm trying to pick between the two. The main problem I'm having is whether I'll miss having a physical keyboard. As I wont be able to have a play with either of these phones before I make a purchase I want to be completely sure that I'm picking the phone I'm going to prefer.
So whats your opinion? Is the HD's keyboard suitable for you?
Do you miss playing silly small games on your HD? How are games on the Pro?
Also another important thing for me is the performance, I heard the Diamond can be quite laggy (With the Touchflow, which I plan on turning off anyway) but I would still like to know if the Pro is just as bad as the Diamond, and whether the HD is a significant improvement!
Cheers,
Luke

diamond rocks
There is a small lag , BUt it again depends on wether the ROM is a light one or a packed one . There are many out here , lighter ones ..for eg V7 , and there is one other fact about these phones , that if you do have a lot of calender enteries and contacts ...it lags a little ...

Calender entries aren't a big deal, don't tend to take full advantage of the calender. Though I do have 60+ contacts.

Have Diamond and I like it but wish I'd waited for the HD. I don't miss the keyboard from the hermes much as I expected.

Keyboard
I'm using a Herald. During some days I used the Diamond keyboard SIP, but after a hard-reset I did not install it again.
I'm using the physical keyboard when sitting or stopping in a comfortable place (office, train, restaurant) and I must work a lot (i.e. writing some project memories or preparing some lectures); on other cases, I usually try to use the stylus. When at building, I fear about missing the stylus (or maybe missing myself) in some concrete reservoir or some hole, so I liked to use the Diamond keyboard SIP, to write some small notes. So, my experience is I use keyboard about 30% of my time.
Looking the HD and the Pro specifications, I suppose they don't defer more than in design and small details.
If you need to work as "at home", I suggest you to get the device with built-in keyboard.

Thanks for the replys guys.
As I do a fair amount of blogging and web browsing I have been thinking that the Pro might be best suited for me, but on the other hand I do use remote desktop a lot (From work to my home PC) so being able to use remote desktop "On-the-go" would be rather handy especially on the large screen of the HD.
Another question I have is how often do you Pro and Diamond users make use of the D-pad? It doesn't seem like it would have very much use on a touch screen WM device.

D-Pad? Hardly ever.

Picked up a sprint Snap/HTC Cedar last night at Best Buy first thoughts.

I don't think the BB Mobile rep was supposed to let me get it yet as I thought it and the pre were due out on the same day? Of course, she was sweet and cute, but not very knowledgeable anyhow so it all worked out for me.
My HTC S511 came with Qualcomm 7625 528MHz processor. 192 MB of RAM with 80 MB for os as well as 256 MB of Flash memory of which the os takes up 160 MB. Software wise it ships with ROM version 1.14.651.1 dated 4/15/09 and radio version 1.25.05F. PRL version 60652 and PRI version 1.29_003.
Seems like a newer slimmer & lighter version of the Motorola q9c (which I also have on another line) except made by HTC with a 2mp camera. Not even close to the touch or mogul I also have so I will not even bother to compare it to either, but rather to it's closest match that I have experience with. I have pics of all these phones together, but no clue how to get them on here.
Keypad buttons seem a little wobbly but easy to use even for my big paws. Still playing with it trying to see if I like it or not. It feels better in my hand then the q9c and better suited to right handed use. Camera is alright, but no flash. Everything is pretty easy to find, especially if you are q9c friendly. Has MS Office instead of Documents to Go, but I can't seem to open word on it's own without a file already there to open. MicroSD card is protected under battery cover, which is kinda nice if it included a card that is. Includes 3 games Bubble Breaker, Solitaire and Wheel of Fortune. Also here is a quick list of included gadgets/software read from the bottom up on my phone:
YouTube
Voice Recorder
Video Recorder
Streaming Media
Sprint TV (Speaker is very loud though tinny)
Sprint Nav
Speed Dial
Software Store
RSS Hub
Remote Desktop
QuickGPS
NFL Mobile Live
NASCAR
Music
MP3 Trimmer (very nice for custom ringtones)
Messenger (Live) redundant?
Live Search
Instant Messaging (AIM, Live, Yahoo)
Inner Circle
HTC Mobile Guide
Google (not compatible with gmail mobile which makes me think no java support)
File Explorer
Comm Manager (Airplane Mode, Phone, Bluetooth, MS Direct Push, Data Connection) no wifi
Clock & Alarm
Camera (pretty nice and can send via email right from app)
Bluetooth Explorer
Audio Booster
Album
Adobe Reader LE
Internet Sharing
Accessories
Getting Started
Pictures & Videos
Voice Notes
Games
Call History
Windows Live
Voice Command
ActiveSync
Office Mobile
Windows Media
Tasks
Internet Explorer
Settings
Contacts
Calendar
Messaging
Overall, I must say it is much more polished than my q9c and not bad for $149 with new line contract. Too soon to say anything about battery life yet, however it is still running on the initial factory charge and only dropped from 3/4 to 1/2 in 20 hours of being on and mildly used. Data is typical HTC fast and should make it a good pants pocket phone for me instead of jeopardizing my now aging and harder to replace mogul/titan. This is good for me especially since my q9c seems to have forgotten how to shut off it's display of late.

Yes this Phone is very cool

I've got the old T-Mobile Dash (HTC Excalibur) and was wondering if the screen readability in sunlight has been improved?
I've always been upset that I can't seem to read the screen at all when I'm outside and the sun is shining. I've noticed that friends with blackberrys and iPhones don't seem to have the same problem.

[Q] Downgrading to WM6.5

It's just crossing my mind this idea to downgrade from WP7 to WM6.x. Yes, it has been told that this two platforms are completely different thing, on hardware and software base. But, after looking at the HD2 forum that is dedicated to HD2s update from WM6.5 to WP7 the idea just could be right.
Switching from WM6.5 to WP7 made me nostalgic for WM6.5 and it's programs, settings... Well, I guess that, as a lot of people, I haven't asked around about WP7 enough to see how it works and what it gives. But, I do like this phone, and especially 1GHz processor, 5MP camera, touch screen and other things (o yeah the battery is much better) that it comes hard to me to have this mighty thing that is all locked up. It could be that in a year or so, from now, it will be better than WM6.5 but considering all that time needed to get it close to WM6.5 and original idea to create WP7 (to make it easy-to-use and lot less custom) it stands on this OS just like gray cloud.
Just wanted to write this, and if someone shares my opinion I would be most glad to hear about it.
Maybe it will be possible to get to WM6.5...

nope cant be done sorry. just install the mango beta it blows wm6.5 out of the water.

Yes, I do try to think like that, and then I realize that I need SatNav. And, no GPS navigation software can't be installed, for time being, there is no Garmin, IGo, TomTom...
I'll definitely stick to this phone, and Mango I'll update. Hope it'll make my life simpler.

mendoza1 said:
Yes, I do try to think like that, and then I realize that I need SatNav. And, no GPS navigation software can't be installed, for time being, there is no Garmin, IGo, TomTom...
I'll definitely stick to this phone, and Mango I'll update. Hope it'll make my life simpler.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Garmin StreetPilot is now in Marketplace for a hefty $39.99, but unfortunately still does not include fully installed maps. Maps can however be downloaded ahead of time to the phone for the relevant route.
for unlocked device you have Navigon select...

My Arrive came with TeleNav. And the built in Bing stuff does turn by turn (with an upgrade coming in Mango). I don't see GPS apps as being an issue.

Yeap, now the future looks better.

as longer I use WP7 the more I wish a downgrade to WM6.5!!!
Where is my (momentary VERY needed) possibility to use tethering!? How do I synch "get away ALL your music and videos, blahblah..." all my things WITHOUT the scrapy Zune-SW, and (haha!) how I can increase the memory for it!?
****ty menues (just 5 stupid icons -what I there are several, much more options!?!?), it's not possible for the developers to install a dedicated database (so you have to make it "in the cloud") -yeah!!!! It's SO stupid on a MOBILE phone, as there often is the possibility that you're NOT online, or with GPRS or EDGE only -and it is SO funny if you're in a train and all 5 secondy it switsh from G to E to G3 to G to HSDPA. The last ****! :-(
The IE on it often don't work. Hmmm -let's use Opera. Uuuh -damned -I forget: you can't install ANYTHING!!!
OK -exceptional jailbreak, but I never did it before, and I don't want it -but I HAVE to do it, if I want to USE my phone.
I think it's better to reactivate my HD2 -there is ALL functionable, without any problems. And: it contains much data that i need -and there is NO possibilty to migrate SMS (i.e.) to WP7 -VERY poor performance Microsoft!!!!

Groby said:
as longer I use WP7 the more I wish a downgrade to WM6.5!!!
Where is my (momentary VERY needed) possibility to use tethering!? How do I synch "get away ALL your music and videos, blahblah..." all my things WITHOUT the scrapy Zune-SW, and (haha!) how I can increase the memory for it!?
****ty menues (just 5 stupid icons -what I there are several, much more options!?!?), it's not possible for the developers to install a dedicated database (so you have to make it "in the cloud") -yeah!!!! It's SO stupid on a MOBILE phone, as there often is the possibility that you're NOT online, or with GPRS or EDGE only -and it is SO funny if you're in a train and all 5 secondy it switsh from G to E to G3 to G to HSDPA. The last ****! :-(
The IE on it often don't work. Hmmm -let's use Opera. Uuuh -damned -I forget: you can't install ANYTHING!!!
OK -exceptional jailbreak, but I never did it before, and I don't want it -but I HAVE to do it, if I want to USE my phone.
I think it's better to reactivate my HD2 -there is ALL functionable, without any problems. And: it contains much data that i need -and there is NO possibilty to migrate SMS (i.e.) to WP7 -VERY poor performance Microsoft!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow where to start. this is probably the most ignorant post I've read on here thus far and with poor grammar at that. my arrive has had wonderful performance since the day I got it and it has improved even further since I installed the mango beta. the live tiles are awesome makes android and iOS seem like nothing but app launchers, the whole concept of apps is overrated and I can do a lot of things without having to even launch an app. and IE9 runs circes around opera. especially the one on WM.

eric12341 said:
wow where to start. this is probably the most ignorant post I've read on here thus far and with poor grammar at that. my arrive has had wonderful performance since the day I got it and it has improved even further since I installed the mango beta. the live tiles are awesome makes android and iOS seem like nothing but app launchers, the whole concept of apps is overrated and I can do a lot of things without having to even launch an app. and IE9 runs circes around opera. especially the one on WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... It's not the performance that is question. But, it's functionality. Migrating from WM6.5 to WP7 should, at least I thought, have been compatible, eg. SMS, Connection settings (WiFi, Phone...), Contact (I've had to do it the old fashion way, by typing contacts manual / an then I found out about sync with WLive ).
It feels like I have powerful thing (excellent hardware), but it does non better than Nokia 3310. Just raw speed, for basic things.

Hi eric -I'm not a native speaker (english) -but give us some probes from your netherlands, german and french
But as I can see, you're able to read what I wrote, and thats what matter.
But back to topic: What sense is in a phone that is unusable in much functions DIRECTLY. For everyone -not just for people which have the time, the skills und of course the desire to make an jailbreak (which causes lost of guarantee), rebuild the phone several times, have so read several manuals, howtos and search for betas, previews.
I'd tried the Desire Z (just because of the same why I buy the 7 Pro -it's a type & touch) -and send it bach 2 days later to amazon. It's exactly what you wrote: just app-launchers! I hate apple., because of their "we tell you what to do" -and with WP7 it cames to me. I don't wanna do a jailbreak -but I didn't have an alternative (if I want to USE the phone) :-(
Maybee other people have the possibility and time to try the mango beta -and it seems that I MUST do it, or I have to sell the phone (what will make me very sad -a VERY good piece of hardware!!)

Groby said:
Hi eric -I'm not a native speaker (english) -but give us some probes from your netherlands, german and french
But as I can see, you're able to read what I wrote, and thats what matter.
But back to topic: What sense is in a phone that is unusable in much functions DIRECTLY. For everyone -not just for people which have the time, the skills und of course the desire to make an jailbreak (which causes lost of guarantee), rebuild the phone several times, have so read several manuals, howtos and search for betas, previews.
I'd tried the Desire Z (just because of the same why I buy the 7 Pro -it's a type & touch) -and send it bach 2 days later to amazon. It's exactly what you wrote: just app-launchers! I hate apple., because of their "we tell you what to do" -and with WP7 it cames to me. I don't wanna do a jailbreak -but I didn't have an alternative (if I want to USE the phone) :-(
Maybee other people have the possibility and time to try the mango beta -and it seems that I MUST do it, or I have to sell the phone (what will make me very sad -a VERY good piece of hardware!!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
odd,i didn't have to do any of that when I got my Arrive. just open the box, enter my live ID and I was good to go. wp7 is not an app launcher as almost everything can be done without even having to go into an app. with the mango beta which is easy to install i can identify a song that's playing, a product for the best price,get directions somewhere (even in malls),find something to do in the area, buy movie tickets,search the web and watch html5 videos in HD quality,check my Facebook,chat on Facebook and check in. and many other things. install the mango beta and u'll feel much better about it.

Hold on. The core of any smartphone are applications. Staring with earliest versions of WM, Symbian, iOS, Android, Droid, WP7, they all the same with a final porpoise, and that is an application/s.
Therefore calling other systems "apps launcher" is contradiction. Because doing anything with a WP7 is being done via apps. Home screen is, just as in any other mobile system, a pile of shortcuts with a weather and the clock. The truth is that some systems are doing it, app launching, better than the others.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
With all of its hardware, as WP7 requires to run, this phone, or any WP7, will in the future be something good.

If you've played with WP7 enough, you'll find that the live tiles really preclude you from needing to actually launch the associated apps unnecessarily. Because of this, the commenter was calling the other Mobile OS versions more of an "app launcher" because, in general, you need to launch the app to interact with it. (Google has widgets, but those widgets aren't quite the same.) With WP7, you can glance-and-go (one of the tenants that MS imparted into the Metro design) and only launch apps when there is a required interaction. It really is a different approach, and one that I think works very well.

Please give some comparison for WP7 and other mobile OS (mOS).
As hard as I try, and I do like to play around with WP7, I just can't find anything that makes WP7 better than other mOS.
Eg. When email or SMS arrive, on WP7s homescreen shows a count of these items, and on the other hand, Symbian do just the same. So, where is the difference?
So far, the only thing that is obviously better are things-apps that have something to do with the internet (Windows Live, Email, Internet Explorer, Youtube) or with the 1GHz processor (apps do work better with stronger processor, so by having stronger processor apps work better and it isn't because of WP7).

you sound like you're determined to be underwhelmed by wp7. yes, when you get an SMS, the homescreen tells you that you have one....that's what phones do. What more is there for a phone to do with an sms?
WP7 is highly innovative from a UI standpoint. What you seem to be interested in, however, is the menu-heavy micromanaging style of old school winmo. If you want to be able to micromanage every last little thing about your phone go to a different platform. WP7 does everything it is purported to do, if you are not getting what you wanted, then you didn't do your homework before you dropped god-knows-how-much on a phone. these days, it's not about which platform is better, it's about preference. It's getting to the point where every platform can do all the really important things really well. so how do you want your phone to look? that's what you're buying.

Don't get me wrong, but what you are saying is what I've been saying. That is, WP7 as any other mOS is not new in functionality but it is different in GUI. Other qualities are not available to be seen, since there are no apps which can show it.
For now, WP7, only offers basic features.

I have been wondering the same thing since the 1 st rumors of windows phone 7 but still a no go. Its ironic ms stripped away so many of the things that made wm only to get beat out by the former clone of themselves....android. I love the form the tp2 & wish they wouldve released an hd2 with a keyboard. They shouldve stripped the name windows,hired a special team that managed themes system wide so that u have eye candy without it being resource heavy & hired a marketing team that would make apple & google have nightmares.

pimppoet said:
I have been wondering the same thing since the 1 st rumors of windows phone 7 but still a no go. Its ironic ms stripped away so many of the things that made wm only to get beat out by the former clone of themselves....android. I love the form the tp2 & wish they wouldve released an hd2 with a keyboard. They shouldve stripped the name windows,hired a special team that managed themes system wide so that u have eye candy without it being resource heavy & hired a marketing team that would make apple & google have nightmares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what they are doing with the mango update that's near release and the beta is already out and I find that im able to do just as much if not more than WM6.5 and android (former TP2 owner and loved it, had an EVO **** for a week and hated it).

Hi,
I followed eric12341's suggestion and have the mango-beta installed (and have buyed a developer account, to make side-loads possible). And some things were better (slow was it not before -hey, it have a 1GHz CPU, it HAVE to be fast ), but there are so many things which waste time. If I want to have a (exact) look of charging, I have to go through some menue-points. As I often in transit by railways, I have to set date several times, and the WM-calendar (and to set the time) is MUCH more effective, as I didnt't have to use the annoying slider-gadgets. Maybe it looks nice, but it waste much time. Before it was just 3 tips, no it's an orgy -the possebility to change the style would be great! And local database for apps -to find the connecting-train while you have no network (and EVERY thing have to be found over network when you want to set start and target of you travel, because of the impossebillity of local databases) is a horror! Before: 10 seconds, now 3 minutes -or longer, as often there is no network in the train. :-(
And unfortunately many very good (sideload)-apps will not longer work after mango. And when I can make a backup from my data, if I want to upgrade memory, or have to change it (because of defectivs, i.e.). And not all of my friend have Zune installed, but they have good music, pdf's or anything else for me. The next thing I was wondering: why I can only set my own ringtons for calling? What'a about SMS, email, and so on?? ^^
Sorry for the bad english -hope it was not to hard to read. :-(

Groby, thanks for the info. I was looking for some info about Mango.
Navigating via online updating is absolutely annoying. It takes for ever to download map, and there are no detailed maps, but only hi-ways and few byways.
I looks like this operating system is way out from it's time, for about good year or so.
If developers could make downgrade to WM 6.x, it would make this phone a dream.