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Good afternoon gang,
I have a few questions about TouchFLO.
I have a HTC Wizard (Cingular 8125). I have only flashed it once for the latest Cingular update. It is an unlocked device. I use it on the Rogers GSM network here in Canada.
Anyhow. I am curious about trying out the TouchFLO but I am not too sure if I want to flash my device just yet.
Is it possible to install any of the TouchFLO capabilities into the ARM Device Emulator?
I develop Windows Mobile applications as a day job but I've never had to deal with ROMs as we setup our apps to run on default factory devices.
We use Device Emulator heavily in our development however I have not seen a way to emulate flashing one.
The emulator boots .bin files.
Also addition questions.
Does the HTC Wizard require WM6 to run TouchFLO? I am pretty happy with my device right now and I see lots of forum posts about many SMS and call/radio issues with WM6 ROMS etc so all of these issues doesn't make it look like its a simple flash & works great kind of situation.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated
Thanks and take care.
Hey. I use and unlocked cingular 8125 with rogers. My phone is a G4 CID locked device. I have the latest rom by ovtaivoi which is a WM6 professional with touchflo software in it. i use the faria 2.69 radio rom and i have had no problems with sms or calls so far. i really love the touchflo software and its pretty sweet. as for your questions, I am not sure what you are talking about the emulator program, honestly. is it something you use on the computer to emulate and see how wm6 would look like? all the upgrade packages come with a .nbf file which is the main data file. if you are able to unpack it and repack it to a .bin file, you may be able to do what you want, but dont quote me on this as i'm still not sure as to what exactly you wanted to do. As far as if touch flow will work only on WM6, I cant say much about that either as i have only used it WM6. WM6 has a better graphics base when compared to WM5 and so i think touch flow would work better with WM6 but I don't think its limited to it.
What I would suggest is to flash the phone with the latest rom. Trust me, its worth it. All the work and skill that the developers have put into these roms really show itself in these roms. Make sure you read enough in this forum before you flash though. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Good luck.
Thanks for the reply!
I learned a lot about my device going through that procedure. It was SIM unlocked but not CID unlocked.
I went through everything and now have WM6 installed using the latest NBD ROM however I am finding the TouchFLO driver buggy. I cannot use my finger to press the "x" icon any more. Sometimes I press it and the start menu appears. Something is up with this touch driver in that release I think.
Also TouchFLO scrolling gestures don't work very reliable and it scrolls way too much.
Is this the case with all TouchFLO ROMs or is each ROM modifying touch capabilities and perhaps one ROM works better than the next?
Also is there a version of the HTC Home with that digital clock with a font about half the size so I can have a few more today screen plugins visible? I like it however its a bit too large.
Thanks and take care.
hi pls let me know the link to download it.
mail me at [email protected]
This is my first post, so please be gentle.
I only recently got my Kaiser (two weeks), and I've been toying with different ROMs. I tried QMobile 1.2, and it seemed alright, but I keep seeing Youtube videos about the "Cube", and it looks like it'd be really handy to have since I don't like pulling out my stylus. It seemed like QMobile 1.2 had "TouchFlo", but I can't seem to find the same "cube" navigation demonstrated in the videos.
I've spent 3-4 days doing nothing but reading the Wiki and forums, as I didn't want to make another duplication of a question asked dozens of times. I've got a notebook with 5 pages of acronyms and numbers, already
So - from what I can gather, Dutty's ROMs seem to be the best I can find that have this Cube thing, as well as what seems to be extensive customization.
My Kaiser is HardSPL'd and I've downloaded and installed QMobile 1.2, so I'm relatively familiar with the process.
This (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361544) thread seems to be about the "Duttys DualTouch v4 RTM Release", which appears to be WM6.0 and what I want. After 30 searches across the Forum and Wiki all I find is discussion about a 6.1 version being available, but I'm not really interested in that until it's officially released (with documentation).
My verbose background aside, I can't seem to find a download link for this release. When I go to the Dutty's lives-in-eu site, I get a server-not-found error. A few pages back in the thread there is another link, but it was password protected.
If for whatever reason Dutty's site has been removed, can anyone else recommend a ROM that has lots of space, the "cube" (or similar finger navigation), slide to unlock and AT&T Tilt stuff (like a compatible radio and Connection Settings)?
Help?
I should also mention that I really appreciated the "Acronyms" sections of the Wiki and FAQ. My first reading of the board was nearly impossible with the number of acronyms. Perhaps someone could add something explaining the 'Cube' ? It seems like a very big feature for the Tilt / Touch, but I can't find a good explanation of what TouchFlo / FTouchFlo / Cube etc., really are, where they came from, etc.
Dutty's new ROM is not available yet. Friday is what he is saying. I use his v4 and it works great other than the damn weather plugin that I finally got P1tater to help me out with. Very fast, and stable.
Here is an alternate link for the V4
http://www.4shared.com/file/36654074/65521948/Duttys_Dualtouch_v4_RTM.html?dirPwdVerified=1f45688
This is the best cube.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358102
Here we go.
Ftouchflo enables you to drag you finger across the screen for scrolling.
FtouchfloConfig is the app to allow you to access the cube. Once enabled you can "usually" drag you finger from bottom to top of your screen to launch the cube. If you can't get it try to reduce the duration from 100 to 300.
Dutty V4 is a very good WM6 rom. It is his current stable release. He is working on 6.1, and a lot of peeps on here are chomping at the bit for it.
Unfortunatley his download section is down (hence the page not found error on the site).
I'd recommend a Schaps or Alex rom at the moment, if you can't get dutties.
Alex has a Wiki page that explains wha is in each. There are 7 versions, including a cube one.
My advice to you is keep reading posts, and it will all start to make sense.
You can install anything you want (eg SU2U), try searching for the cabs or ask if you are really stuck or don't know what summat is called. you can use google, see the stcky on the ofther kaser post.
To be honest it is all down to personal prefs. All the chefs here are very good at what they do... Schaps, Dutty, Alex et al. It doesn't cost anything to flash a new ROM everyday (unless you muck it up ) so try all of the ROMS here and see which one suits your prefs best.
I think the server Dutty is using is down right now, and that's why you are unable to download DualTouch V4. Check the site: http://duttythroy.lives-in.eu/cms/ every now and then, and if it comes back up, there will be a folder called DualTouch where you will be able to download the ROM.
For now, its possible to get the cube on the Q-Mobile ROM. Visit this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=350011 and download the files. I believe this cube runs quite well. It has a different skin than the original cube, but poorlyduck has also included files to revert back to the original skin. Just read the thread and I'm sure you will figure it out...
Hope that helps...
Wow you guys all nailed it.
Thank you Dave for the explanation, I added it to my notebook. Is FTouchFlo something that HTC made for the Kaiser or did someone port it over? If so, whom? I'd like to see what else they did, maybe donate.
Thank you alltheway for that link, it looks like you've got a lot of stuff shared out there. I just finished the Dutty v4, so I'll be trying it...
And zakhir I downloaded that cube, the Vista one. Finally have one that works, woohoo! Thanks. One question though - is there anyway to make s2u2 work with the Cube? When I 'slide to unlock' left to right, I end up opening the cube and spinning it.
EDIT: Nevermind, found the answer to that one with Google: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=360813
Prattle said:
EDIT: Nevermind, found the answer to that one with Google: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=360813
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/wipes tear from his eye
We found someone that knows not only how to read...but how to use Google...I'm so happy.
DCS v1.5
Give DCS a try!
I found its really fast and has essential progs.
I believe it is comparable to Dutty Roms.
You must of course flash a new radio
Prattle said:
Wow you guys all nailed it.
Thank you Dave for the explanation, I added it to my notebook. Is FTouchFlo something that HTC made for the Kaiser or did someone port it over? If so, whom? I'd like to see what else they did, maybe donate.
Thank you alltheway for that link, it looks like you've got a lot of stuff shared out there. I just finished the Dutty v4, so I'll be trying it...
And zakhir I downloaded that cube, the Vista one. Finally have one that works, woohoo! Thanks. One question though - is there anyway to make s2u2 work with the Cube? When I 'slide to unlock' left to right, I end up opening the cube and spinning it.
EDIT: Nevermind, found the answer to that one with Google: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=360813
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can add s2u2 to the exceptions settings of ftouchflo... then you wont activate the cube when trying to unlock the phone from s2u2
jarek91 said:
/wipes tear from his eye
We found someone that knows not only how to read...but how to use Google...I'm so happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me too, seems it's one of those famous days where I can go to bed, happy
and by the way, downloadsection on dutty site is up as interim solution until we found a better hosting possibility.
Hey Guys,
I know that this has been discussed a hundred times .
But let me at first explain:
This goes out to all you chefs which are cooking the roms (I'm not capable to cook one by myself)
So what I would like to have is a Kaiser ROM with a working Touchflo3d.
I've read and searched for hours and hours and found the rom from L26, but I think this had been an really early state. Now the drivers have changed and improved.
So is there anyone out there who is able to cook a rom (no matter if 6.1 or 6.5) with working TF3D and drivers?
I found out that there is a working version in this tread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=465507
But it was not working with my rom (M-Opal 1.0) due to cooked M2D.
So it would give hmm a bounty of 35€ (€ not dollars) if anyone would prepare a working, fast rom with TF3D.
And I am also sure that there will be a lot of other useres who would love it.
Best regards,
Matthias
Maeffjus said:
And I am also sure that there will be a lot of other useres who would love it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not me ...........................
That being said, here is the latest.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=458116
Maeffjus said:
Hey Guys,
I know that this has been discussed a hundred times .
But let me at first explain:
This goes out to all you chefs which are cooking the roms (I'm not capable to cook one by myself)
So what I would like to have is a Kaiser ROM with a working Touchflo3d.
I've read and searched for hours and hours and found the rom from L26, but I think this had been an really early state. Now the drivers have changed and improved.
So is there anyone out there who is able to cook a rom (no matter if 6.1 or 6.5) with working TF3D and drivers?
I found out that there is a working version in this tread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=465507
But it was not working with my rom (M-Opal 1.0) due to cooked M2D.
So it would give hmm a bounty of 35€ (€ not dollars) if anyone would prepare a working, fast rom with TF3D.
And I am also sure that there will be a lot of other useres who would love it.
Best regards,
Matthias
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are already tf3d roms and if your looking for one that will work flawlessly on our kaisers, not gonna happen.
Leo (L26) made a decent rom L26_KaiserTouch_V4_M3D that actually encompasses TF3d. I have not tried the others but I do love his rom even though it is not as smooth.
I wonder how it will work with 6.5 drivers. I'm going to take a shot at cooking it into josh's rom for you. We'll see how this goes.
Why should there be no interest in TF3D on a Kaiser? (@denco)
Because I've seen a lot of videos on Youtube where it is running smooth and it also seems nearly bugless.
Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPf_gjMFBHs
or these one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDduRgWFweM&feature=related
What I want to fullfil my bounty should be:
1. Running TF3D
2. OpenGl-Drivers integrated in ROM (I think it is necessary to use TF3D)
3. The Standby bugfix should be integrated, which is located under the link in my first post.
4. Look and Feel like on the Videos (not any kind of "Tiger" or strange "Tribal" as system theme)
Optional but highly welcome: German Language
Or is it possible to install some kind of language pack? (I'm using WM since hmm 6 or 7 years but I've never seen such a thing)
I've tried the L26 ROM and it was not satifying to me because the speed was really low compared to the TF3D's on the youtube videos and it seemed very buggy.
If I'm not completely wrong, the version of TF3D from my first post is in an advanced state compared with the on from L26.
Thanks in Advance!
Would be nice to find some people who will help to increase the bounty!
Maeffjus said:
Why should there be no interest in TF3D on a Kaiser? (@denco)
Because I've seen a lot of videos on Youtube where it is running smooth and it also seems nearly bugless.
Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPf_gjMFBHs
or these one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDduRgWFweM&feature=related
What I want to fullfil my bounty should be:
1. Running TF3D
2. OpenGl-Drivers integrated in ROM (I think it is necessary to use TF3D)
3. The Standby bugfix should be integrated, which is located under the link in my first post.
4. Look and Feel like on the Videos (not any kind of "Tiger" or strange "Tribal" as system theme)
Optional but highly welcome: German Language
Or is it possible to install some kind of language pack? (I'm using WM since hmm 6 or 7 years but I've never seen such a thing)
I've tried the L26 ROM and it was not satifying to me because the speed was really low compared to the TF3D's on the youtube videos and it seemed very buggy.
If I'm not completely wrong, the version of TF3D from my first post is in an advanced state compared with the on from L26.
Thanks in Advance!
Would be nice to find some people who will help to increase the bounty!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it can run smoothely'ish the problem encountered is lack of driver to be able to sleep device in the correct manor.
But there is a patch to solve that kind of problem or am I wrong?
Q: Whenever I try and put the device into sleep mode, it powers off instead?
A: Try disabling the today time-out. Also, make sure you installed the standby CAB right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Taken from the Linked TF3D thread...
Maeffjus said:
But there is a patch to solve that kind of problem or am I wrong?
Taken from the Linked TF3D thread...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No there are work arounds but no real fix
Im still TF3D fan, but after many bug and slow on my Kaiser, i have to move on.. if somebody create or develop ROM with it, i will give a try..
With that standby fix Touchflo3d is disabled automatically before sleep mode. Biggest problem for me was that when the device wakes up it needs to launch touchflo again and that process was kinda slow. Sometimes it just get stuck and needed softreset.
Still, I would be curious to see how smooth tf3d would be cooked in with newest builds and drivers...Also, if I remember right 3d drivers won't work if you have super ram hack in your rom.
Whatever ;-) ...
Also, if I remember right 3d drivers won't work if you have super ram hack in your rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mind if there is a super-ram-hack or what else, in my opinion it should WORK
Also I think that all of you shall take a look in your money-bag if there is a possibility to make it a little more lucrative to work on such a rom.
As I also stated out that I will pay my full bounty only if it is able to run on latetest state of development - that means not that the chef has to develop touchflo3d once again but without bugs ;-) it means only that it should be able to run as good as possible at the moment.
But as I read yesterday evening, I saw that there are maybe two possibilities to get rid of the standby bug, but - forgive me - if did not looked detailed at these solutions - so I don't know how these work but maybe one of them is working better?
And when I'm right - all the roms with TF3D cooked in are with an earlier driver-version. The younger versions of the driver have improved, if I understood the development news made in the dev. and hack. section.
The TF3D-cooked-in-rom-threads are nearly all dated arround december '08 - and I read a lot of them
Maeffjus said:
Why should there be no interest in TF3D on a Kaiser? (@denco)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not saying that if you posted a working TF3d rom that no one would flash it, I would. But what is the effort /reward ?
What about it would make it better than my M2D rom ? Or anyone's 6.5 rom.
Enough great chefs put more than enough time into it, and could not get adequate drivers to make it smooth enough to keep as an everyday rom nor could they get by the stand by problem.
TF3D is M2D with some nice 3D touches that is all, am I missing something ? Is it head and shoulders above M2D or Neo Titanium, I don't think so. Which is why no one really cares to put in all the effort to make it work , nor is anyone really willing to spend any funds to make it work.
I am not being a contrarian or a nay sayer just for arguement sake, really With M$ coming out with cHome and Titanium, SPB out with MS 3, HTC coming out with Sense, there is a reason why people took porting TF3D as far as they could and then lost interest.
O.K. 0,5 Points for you
But I think that Sense is only for Andoid? Correct me if I'm doing wrong...
My problem is, that my Kaiser (and i think all others too) have not such a good touch screen accuracy... mine is terrible.
(yes, I cleaned out the frame and the edges...but on my bosses Kaiser the screen accuracy is also bad! - Compared to my - slow but accurate - P4350).
In my opinion the touchflo concept is one of the best solutions ever developed. But for me in person TF3D would be a nice looking (and little improved) upgrade. I'm already using M2D and I like it, but what I also like very much is for example the animated weather and the improved look and feel.
I have also tried 6.5 but with the terrible accuracy of my screen it is not so funny to use.. also it is not running such smooth as M2D and I in person think titanium is not everyones favourite choice. What i also do not like is the Honeycomb-Style... looks nice, but thats all.. O.k. the kinetic scrolling is good and thats one thing I like . But thats the only improvement I could see at WM6.5.
So whats your opinion: Is a rom with newest drivers and so on not for everydays use capable due to a lot of buggy functions? (I dont't know - I never used one ).
If I remember right, all the legendary cooks have tired TF3D and it doesnt work as it is supposed in Kaiser. Kaiser is just not made for TF3D. TF3D is more resource hungry, and our device just cant handle it.
I do believe there is a cab for TF3D available! Take a good lite 6.5 ROM with memory hack, and load it with TF3D, you will see if it will be able to handle it or not.
I had it working kinda decent with 6.5...just kept throwing drivers at it until i found a decent setup. But i was just wanting to see how it would be like you. When i get home i will look if i still have the file and send it to you. I cant even remember what all i had with it though lol. But like everyone has said its still slow with the newest drivers and such.
I cant find the file....but i will work on it this weekend.
Here is one that I had downloaded when the TF3D thread was alive. This does not have standby in it. So if you want to turn off your phone, then you need to find a stanby fix by somebody!
Hmm in my first post is another source for the TF3D, which has bigger files - there you'll find also the Audio Manager etc.
Has this thread died ?
Hi Guys,
Just a quick question i hope.
Can i install a program which makes my HTC Wizard's menues behave like a cube where you can scroll it around from face to face to reveal different menu options ETC?
I've seen this feature on several mobile phones and i was wondering if i could get it on my Mob.
Tom
Sure it can !
But, you should ask some more experienced users and they can post for you download link of best rom with cube in it.
Cheers !
can anyone help with this i currently have CR96 latest rom, it has the honeycomb start menu but just has a scroll today screen' i just want a cube style browsing interface' can i change settings or do i need a different rom? any help would be appreciated.
If you are looking for the cube interface that was on the HTC Touch (I think it was first seen there)...there are a couple versions people have made here on XDA. These are the ones I remember trying back in the days:
HTC Cube Clone SCLPF (Flash-based)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=336234
HTC Cube OpenGL SCLPC+ (C++ coded)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358102
As far as I remember they both worked decent on my Wizard. There is also another version by Byka, but don't think I've ever tried that one.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=328010
Ahh, thats helps a lot, in everyone's opinion then is it worth going back to one of these or should i stick with the CR96?
I'm getting used to it now, i've tried a couple of others the TNT touchflo and X2H's newest ROM but i've found the CR96 much better!
Any views would be appreciated.
Those links are to a piece of software, NOT to a ROM.
You can install and run those with whatever ROM you have running now. I believe cube clones were built over a year ago so not sure how they'll work with the newer ROMs. But worth a try if you want that cube effect.
Even clearer, thanks!
getting on quite well with the CR96 Rom.
Hi there!
This is my first post on the forum but I'm registered for some time ago and was mainly the observer. 'till now, I had nothing to write that it's not already written and explained (I'm not sure if this kind of post exists as well) but consider this as my small contribution to this community.
First I must say that I'm thrilled to know that Uni "scene" is so strong and even if the device is somewhat old, you guys are still cooking new ROMs and seems like you'll never stop exploring. Honestly, if I find some spare time during holidays, I'll do my best to join the scene and to learn all the important stuff so I can cook some myself.
And now, let's get to the point.
I've had 'till now various WM devices running on various platforms but some things were always constant like: SRS WoW HD (I'm oftenly in noisy environments (I'm sound engineer) so this one is MUST HAVE for me), SPB Mobile Shell (sorry but I have to feed my cosmetic hunger ), Total Commander (the first thing I start on my desktop computer), Nitrogen (used for listening music on the move), Garmin XT (needed for frequent travel needs) and few other mainly cosmetic things.
Following is the respective order of ROMs I've installed, tested and run for some time and all of the pros and cons:
Ranju v7.6
My device came with this ROM (since bought used) which I found pretty slow. SPB MS waas oftenly frozen and/or stucked with error so I decided to try out some other ROMs which led me to xda-developers forum and the famous Tomal ROMs.
Tomal v8.9 REGULAR
Downloaded, installed and was like "WOW!!! This guy is SERIOUS!"
Started to install my usual stuff and everything was flawless until i tried to install SRS WoW HD. Installed one version - not working (no sound at all), installed second version - working but when device go to sleep mode it's impossible to wake it up without soft-resetting the device. Did the hard-reset and everything was fine again but I realized that SRS won't work on this ROM (if I've read the thread I'd known that before trying - sorry for the ignorance). Other than that - GREAT ROM!
Tomal v10 64MB
I knew that the Uni is capable of running the 6.5 platform so I downloaded and installed this one, truely hoping that it will run now SRS thing (again, if I've read the thread, I would know that it won't). Installed all the bells and whistles I need and found out that my Uni is running awfully slow having about 3-4 megs of free RAM after just a couple of minutes running. It started to change ringtones by itself, when people tried to call me I was unavailable and even if they could reach me I was oftenly unable to answwer the call. Yes I know: it's completely my fault (installed many RAM hungry - background running apps).
Tomal v12 64MB
I thought "if this ROM really looks like it was shown on pics, I don't have to install SPB MS". Downloaded, installed, was "WOW!!!" again but after few hours of using it (haven't installed none of the 3rd party software) I was
It got stucked like the previous version running with awfully low free RAM. And, this one also, couldn't run SRS WoW HD.
Beasty & Laurentius 2.09.01
Saw the preview pics and thought "why not? Let's try..." Downloaded, Installed, added all of my apps and it was still OK. Running OK, no problems installing any of software. Fair enough. But then I started SMSing with one of my clients and realized how much I miss SMS threading and finger scrolling... That was it... time to find something else...
At this point I was fairly desperate thinking that something's definitely wrong with me. I thought I'd never find ROM that suits my needs but I continued browsing, searching, reading and downloading.
Finally I've changed the approach and started hunting for some light/vanilla ROM running on 6.1 platform.
nk 21055 Vanilla (I don't remember who the chef was... sorry)
Found this ROM, saw specs and read the experiences. Fair enough to try. Downloaded, installed, running OK but missing so much stuff I've used to have. Took me an age to install and configure everything but finally I did it and started growing roots on this ROM.
After some time, while trying to change (first) bootsplash, my Uni was stuck at the bootloader so I had to run MTTY to fix things and to reflash. Installed this ROM again and then realized how much time I have to spend to get it back as it was be. Gave up.
P.S.: network setup was also pain in the ass since this ROM was the only one I've tried without settings and parameters for my network so each time I did soft-reset I had an alert to have to set network parameters myself and it continued doing so even after I've set all of the parameters.
Luca16thebig 2.0.5 REGULAR 64MB
Great ROM. Even if I know it's the 6.1 it features all the thing I need from 6.5 but again, the lack of RAM made me reflash although everything worked fine.
Luca16thebig 2.0.5 VANILLA 64MB
Installed, added all of my apps I need, looking good, running smooth, no problems so far. Started "growing roots" on this one. It seems that I finally found a compromise between 6.1 and 6.5 in this one. All of the 3rd party software runs smoothly and flawless and the RAM amount is about 15 megs all the time (with SPB MS and other things running in background).
At the end I must say one big, fat THANK YOU to all of the chefs (namely: Tomal, Luca, Ranju, Beasty, Laurentius, Luca) and everyone else of the xda-developers community. This is the most useful place for all of my exploration of WM. Sometimes it's really hard to understand what some smart people have to say but my english also sucks so I understand that and trying hard to understand everything you guys say.
Keep up the good work and keep the scene alive!
CheerZ!
Check also this one:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525500
In my opinion the best 6.1 rom for our universal's (and believe me when I say that I have tested them all!)
Welcome to forums
Thanks for sharing your experiences with ROM´s
If you want to test more have a look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=549207
Post 4
Read, Search, Respect and Enjoy!