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Power of Twitter and the 2.0.1 update.

It seems that a lot of companies are really taking advantage of twitter to communicate with customers at large. Some examples are Verizon and HTC announcing the Eris OS update, Sprint has announced items via twitter. Lot's of people follow these companies and I am sure that these companies search twitter for references to there name.
So I propose that we use the power of twitter to send a clear message to Sprint that we would like an Android 2.0.1 update and that we would like some sort of news confirming it. We don't need exact deadlines but just knowing that it's coming would be great news for the community. It would also benefit Sprint in the long run because potential and current customers would have a little bit more faith in buying a Hero at 179.99 knowing that it will be getting an update.
I am going to post this to a few other Sprint/Hero related forums. Everyone can start twitting now or we can try to get some clear defined message written out that we can all retweet. Please post any thoughts, inputs or messages that you have twitted @Sprint.
My twitter ID is kennyidaho.

You do know that HTC announced we would be getting 2.x on Twitter about a month ago, right?
http://twitter.com/htc/statuses/5243593307

Flipz beat me to it.
I was googling for the article where HTC Confirmed it. They wouldn't bother with the update for CDMA Hero if Sprint wasn't going to give it to us. It costs them too much money to build an OS/Rom for a phone just in case Sprint ever asks for it.

Yes but nobody knows for sure if this applies to CDMA Hero's (we do know that it applies to GSM Hero's because of the leaked ROM - is there any proof a CDMA rom has been created?). HTC control's the update process on GMS Hero's, however Sprint has to request and push an update to Sprint Hero's. HTC is primarily a GSM manufacture and will cater to those devices first.
Assuming that HTC's announcement regarding Android 2.0 applies to carrier branded devices is as naive as assuming that the successor to the Hero (to be announced in February) applies to Sprints Hero.
Trust me I would like to hope it's true. Having Sprint and HTC devices in the past I know that just because HTC updates it's GSM equivalent it does not always indicate CDMA devices will receive the update (or will be updated in a timely manner).

Well if its been confirmed well what's the harm of twittering Sprint

No harm...
Just seems like a waste, one way or another we will have a 2.1 update.

Kcarpenter said:
No harm...
Just seems like a waste, one way or another we will have a 2.1 update.
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Myself and I am sure many others grow tired of the waiting game with these devices. In the end the main goal really is to see sprint open up a little bit.
If Sprint has ordered the update, if it's in testing and is slated to be released sometime first quarter 2010 then what's the harm in telling us? Verizon can notify it's customers that their Droid Eris, which is basically the same phone as the Hero, is getting updated - Sprint can take that risk too!
Right now Verizon is blitzing the media with Droid this Droid that, update this update that. What's sprint doing? A 5 second mention on a commercial also advertising the Pre and Tour?

Kcarpenter said:
No harm...
Just seems like a waste, one way or another we will have a 2.1 update.
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just saying, in the time it took you to type that out and post it here, you could just as easily have tweeted something to sprint about getting the update.
how are you so absolutely positive that we'll get it? do you know something the rest of us don't?
all i'm saying is that it's not a waste to tell them what you want, whether or not you already know you're going to get it.

I agree totaly. We make huge investments in these devices, especially those of us who don't get them by signing a new contract. Personally I have to have the coolest gadget on the market, its my kryptonite. To that note also, Sprint does have the best service converage and price in my area. So I can't afford necessarrily to go else where. Damned if you do Damned if you don't. We are at the mercy of the phone company and until we get the portablity openness in the U.S. that our European counterparts have, we are stuck with what we get.
That being said, the Devs on this forum and else where make the phone what its worth, not Sprint. Luckily in our case, "There is always someone smarter than you". Meaning Sprint can hold out all they want, we will get ours eventually. I am sure we can yell and scream and cause a fuss, but I don't see the merit behind it. Kind of like getting upset with the Customer Serivce reps at sprint when we call to ask the status of the update, you can yell at them all day long and nothing will get accomplished other than making them pissed and ruining their day.

Just Twitter don't be upset just ask nicely, what id they respond back with next week. Then the debate can hold off on thief build and relax

Gah, I even went out and made a twitter account for you guys. Now knowing I have a twitter account gives me the chills... I feel like a 'myspace' person now.
@sprint and @htc right???
@kcarpenter5407

Kcarpenter said:
Gah, I even went out and made a twitter account for you guys. Now knowing I have a twitter account gives me the chills... I feel like a 'myspace' person now.
@sprint and @htc right???
@kcarpenter5407
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Hey Twitter is nothing like having a MySpace account, granted most people mis use by updating about nothing. I follow cnn, some journalist that I like and some online stores and ESPN plus a couple sports teams. Which has Me do less surfing cause all the info comes straight to me
If u decide to give Twitter a try may I suggest if you find someone intresting follow them and check out who they are following

I don't see any harm in this... I'm going to twitter Sprint here in a few

I was being slightly facetious.

Well HTC posted a response nothing from sprint

In case no one saw this. "Samsung Secret"

Take it with a grain of salt. But it sounds mildly legit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
edit: actually i call b.s.

whiteguypl said:
edit: actually i call b.s.
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Why? I have no firm opinion one way or the other, but just saying "bull****" really doesn't mean much unless you're playing the card game.

How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.

Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Click to collapse
Open source doesn't mean free.

I'm inclined to believe it. It makes more sense than trying to say they have been testing it for months. I've had my captivate for 6 months, almost 5 of them running FroYo thanks to the awesome devs here. Has the froyo always been stable and fast? No. But the devs don't work for Samsung with all the resouces, they are doing it in their spare time. I would bet Samsung had a fairly stable, almost complete version of FroYo ready before the phone released.
I am really getting tempted by the Atrix, apart from the awesome hardware and webtop app, Motorola devices get updates. But, they sound harder to flash custom ROMs, so its a give and take. Based on what I saw on the CES coverage, going with only official software may not be so bad.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App

Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Even if thus is true, both AT&T and Samsung have all ready made too many mistakes. Both will lose some business. Yes it won't be enough to hurt either but maybe all the pestering will make them rethink their business models. Probably not. My last Samschmuck phone on AT&T for sure.
Sent from a phone somewhere in the universe

ianwood said:
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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This is the same point I tried to make on the thread. While Samsung may have been the ones to state that Froyo would come to Galaxy S, it may be that the carrier(s) decided to balk on the 2.2 update due to extra cost as probably stipulated by whatever contract they negotiated with Samsung.
If Froyo is already on Canadian carriers' devices (officially) why not U.S. carriers. Something reeks here.
While Samsung should have kept their mouths shut about the update, I'm sure a part is being played by the American carriers here.

Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Click to collapse
You are mixing up open source with free software. Ask Richard Stallman the difference
Also, I would imagine that they would not be paying Samsung for the software itself but more so the software development to tailor it to the carriers needs.

This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.

Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.

A.VOID said:
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
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Click to collapse
AT&T has nothing to do with iPhone updates. Matter of fact, AT&T has nothing to do with iPhones at all, except sell them. All iPhone updates are done through iTunes and all iPhone support is handled by Apple. This is not a good comparison.
Even comparing WinMo doesn't really work. I had a Wizard on AT&T, and there was exactly one firmware update, even though there were other versions that were available later. Plus, Windows is not free and not based on open source code. So, carriers would expect to pay for updates with closed source operating systems.

Xaviorin said:
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released.
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If that were true, then Apple and AT&T would be facing some serious litigation. This is similar to the deals that Intel made with computer manufacturers, forcing them to slow leak AMD sales in order to sell more Intel chips. Intel paid quite a hefty fine and suffered a serious PR black eye. That type of practice stifles competition and is very, very illegal. So, I doubt that Apple and AT&T would even consider doing that.

Xaviorin said:
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
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Click to collapse
Conspiracy theory much? Like someone said, your theories border on anti-competitive in practice. AT&T is also not so obsessed with the iPhone given how much they've diversified their smartphone portfolio in the past 9 months (+2 WebOS devices, +2 BlackBerrys, +3 Windows Phones, +5 Android devices).

I'm usually skeptical about these things, but this is about the only rumor that makes sense.
For those comparing it to the iphone, its like comparing oranges to apples. Apple pretty much takes care of everything on their side.At&t just peddles their product. Apple has a 400 person call center just for the iphone, next door to where I work.
Apple makes the hardware and creates the OS.
Samsung just makes hardware which is a good thing considering how bad their software engineers are at coding.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I'm more in the conspiracy theory side
Don't trust everything you read.
Thing about it deeply, what is more likely:
A Sammy employee risked his job, created an account just to create this post, and tell us the truth about the updates and how bad his employer is? seriously? What did he gain by doing this post? peace of mind? can he go to sleep now that he has revealed the truth of the US-only updates? Does really the Samsung employees care this much for only the US based users? This smells, and bad.
Now lets look at the conspiracy side. An AT&T employee notices our frustration against them. They see that seem to be more frustrated people are the non tech-savvy ones; that we got to admit they are more than us and represent a big number for them. On the other hand I bet they receive a gazillion calls from you guys on these subject.
Wouldn't be more likely than AT&T representative created that post to wash their hands and pass the blame to sammy? Isn't them who released a restricted phone and made a deal with Samsung saying that they will be in charge of this phone's updates? Samsungs cost in releasing an update of a phone that is almost equal to 6 other phones they released is null; whereas AT&T cost in updating their crap is high. Don't be blind. Carriers are the new tyrants. They will do anything in their power to get more money. If you could see what they are able to do in countries like mine you wont even doubt this. In my country of such a deal is made you can forget that you will ever get updates. There even is a carrier that, after 4 months passed that you have purchased a motorola's android based phone, charges you 10 uss monthly for MOTO BLUR, and this was written in the small print of the contract... seriously... I've seen carriers cancel their users contracts, saying they requested that, to bill them their contract-cancelation fee...
I could go on with this for pages... I've witnessed carriers lying, deceiving, and even more right in the people's face. If you want to check this, and know some spanish or use translators, just google "Claro hijos de puta" (sons of a...) or "claro estafa" (scam); both searches give more than 3 million results, and you wont imagine what you might find inside those pages...
This whole thing smells badly. And if I had to bet, I would say that post was made by a carrier to buy them time, or even to start making up an excuse so they wont ever release an update... after all, they would be the only ones that would benefit from such events...

I'm through waiting
This story was the final straw for me, whether it's true or not. I am tired of the drama and am no longer waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to deliver what AT&T told me would happen when I bought the phone. If AT&T store staff said something incorrect it was corporate's fault for not guiding their staff correctly. I was told shortly Froyo was coming, but it never came. Samsung said on Twitter/Facebook we all would have Froyo last year. There is no excuse for what they have done, none. I've waded through the myriad of 3rd party ROMs and was leery of the leaked Froyo ones due to everyone seemed to have an issue here or there. The 9000 ROMs sounded exciting but came with issues I didn't want. I just want a working GPS and a stable phone, running Froyo, what I thought I was getting last summer.
Now that Rogers released a North American ROM and the talented coders have seized upon it, we seem to be approaching a new level of stability with Froyo. After reading up on the various Rogers ROM based images I installed Cognition (donation coming later tonight) and after 30 minutes of playing around, I am home with Froyo now. I am beyond tired of waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to do the honorable thing for they are not honorable companies. I doubt another Samsung will grace my pocket and yet maybe it will be the 3rd party coders that will ultimately deliver what I have waited patiently for, for months. Wouldn't it be a wonderful environment if Samsung would just release the source to everything and let those out here, those infinitely more talented than Samsung staff, have access to the code they need to work pure magic.

Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Click to collapse
polarbee said:
Open source doesn't mean free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source comes under GPL license. This isn't the one that is of cost, but the efforts involved in packing for a device, its extensive testing is what is costly.
In the most simplest of terms, the following people would be involved:
Business Team x 3 people
Development Team x 6 people
Testing/QA Team x 10 people
To take care of these people:
Project Manager x 1 person
Team Leads x 3 people (1 for each team)
Taking this to 23 people, to say the least.
On an average, if we pay each person say $ 50k for 6 months effort, it would be $ 50,000 x 23 = $ 1,150,000 i.e., $ 1.15 millions for 6 months.
Now see, this is only the minimal scale. For a phone so wide spread, I would assume a team of atleast 50 where managers charge more than 100-200k a year.
Now u see why Samsung doesn't wish to put this kind of money into a phone already sold, and is looking into marketing newer phones.

I think its all hoopla.
This "leak" of sensitive information on one of many android forums is only going to reach the eyes of a hand full of readers.
We (the brave souls wanting new updates for our gadgets and willing to hack them to get it) are very few in numbers compared to the vast amounts of consumers who own this phone, and usually don't give a hoot about a new update/upgrade for their phones ROM, IF they even know what the heck it is. They only care that their calls and texts go through, and they can browse the web on their lunch break.
The ONLY issue that most would care about is the GPS issues we have had. And I bet that AT&T, and Samsung have both received tens of thousands of customer complaints regarding Mr. Joe Average not being able to find his way on his family vacation. Again, we are but a small number compared to that. I would think that alone would motivate something to happen, at least an OTA update to fix the GPS issues. Nope.
So other than an intellectual debate on "why haves", and "why have nots" on a forum like this, there is nothing else this message could possibly accomplish.
The above thread, and this one will slowly slide down the thread list and be forgotten and nothing else will change.

The Bottom Line
Rumors aside, if it doesn't sell more phones, minutes or data plans and it can be avoided without seriously upsetting customers, they won't bother. Outside of our merry band of flash-a-holics, what percent of Captivate owners even know what Froyo is or care?
Also, judging by the JH7 OTA debacle, Samsung's OTA upgrade capability is decidedly unreliable. I'd bet that caused a mountain of returns. AT&T HATES returns!!! Costs them a fortune. The cost of paying Samsung for a Froyo upgrade is a drop in the bucket by comparison. So a bad OTA system is worse than none at all. If AT&T can get away with avoiding it, they will.
I think our best hope is to make A LOT of noise! Complain to Samsung, AT&T and Google. Do it publicly on FB, Twitter, etc. Do it often. A small vocal group of XDA readers can probably stir up a decent amount of attention at AT&T if they coordinated their efforts.

General Question on Phone Announcement to Retail

Hey everyone, happy Monday,
I have a quick question about the amount of time it takes for a phone to be announced to when it goes to retail/pre-order. The reason I ask is because my family (8 people) will be switching to Sprint from Verizon (my dad is sick of their billing and customer service) and we are going to get 4 smartphones. Being the tech geek of the family, I really want to make these smartphones the new phones being announced on the 25th. We are switching over in April, and I'm hoping to be able to smooth talk a manager about getting the new phones when they come out, but I know he will deny any offer if they come out during or after the summer.
Any answer/tips for smooth-talking a Sprint store manager?

What? I dont quite understand what you're asking. If the phone isn't released you can't get it, just because they announce it doesn't mean certain people can just go buy it.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App

Yea...after I read it over, I didn't make much sense.
So here's my situation as simply as I can explain it. There are a few new phones coming out at CTIA that I am going to purchase.
My question is, how long does it normally take for a phone to go to a retail store for consumers to buy AFTER they have been announced.
Ex. The kyocera echo (only phone I can think of right now) was announced in Jan/Feb and is going to start being sold in April.
I was hoping if someone could give my a more specific date as to when the new phones at CTIA were going to be sold (Evo 3D, may atrix for Sprint).
I hope that clears things up, and If it doesn't, then I'm going to sleep and rethink how I word things.

@FLAC Vest: it's perfectly clear - the OP is wondering how long it takes for a phone to go from being announced to being able to buy or at the very least pre-order it.
The OP's family are hoping to switch to Sprint and get some of the new handsets they're about to announce in a couple of days time, so the OP is wondering when it's likely they'll be available.
@the OP: it varies device to device.
On one hand you have Apple, who have the iPhone on sale a couple of weeks after announcing it - albeit in limited markets.
They do this by delaying the announcement as long as possible and also because of their relatively slow product refresh cycle.
With other manufacturers it's very hit and miss.
Some like Sony Ericsson have a poor track record, having taken nearly a year in the past to get a handset to the market (though in fairness to the, nearly a year after it was leaked, not announced).
Samsung are improving but have had their share of delays, like the original Galaxy S which took a number of months to be released after it's announcement.
Generally I'd say it's around a month or two from announcement to release but sometimes phones are delayed unexpectedly.
However if a handset is exclusive to a particular network, that can sometimes speed it up a wee bit as the manufacturer is only having to supplier one company, not a miscellany of competing networks.
There's a good chance that when Sprint make their announcement, they'll also announce an expected release date.
That should give you more of an idea.

Thanks Step you
a) made me much more confident that I wasn't going insane and typing in gibber-gabber
b) answered my question completely, even above and beyond A+
Now I can only hope that the Evo 3D or Atrix will come out on sprint before/during May
BTW: Do you think anyone here knows how to sweet talk a manager?

Anyone else tired of waiting on Verizon?

After today's expected launch went without an event, I contacted Verizon.
Here is the link to the about page for VP and Chief Marketing Officer, Marni Walden.
http://bit.ly/iAKpSp
I sent her the following letter (click the link at the bottom of her page)
Ms. Walden,
I am contacting you as a very disgusted customer. Since last fall, I have been waiting for Verizon to release a Windows Phone 7 device. I learned in the fall that this device would not be available on the CDMA networks, and as a software developer, I understand how Microsoft had not yet implemented support for it. However, Verizon has been stringing its customers along for about five months now with the implied promise of a Windows Phone 7 device, yet has not delivered.
In December, VZW advertized to Microsoft employees the Trophy, and it promised an "Early 2011" delivery. That offer had an expiration date of 12/31/2010, although that delivery has been pushed back to March, April, and May, and the delivery time range has been removed from the flier.
On March 23 the CDMA Sprint HTC Arrive was released. CDMA support was finally here. But Verizon dragged its feet. An April launch was expected, because despite the tight lips at Verizon, pictures were leaked of a Verizon branded Trophy, as well as an April expiration date on the Microsoft employee offer. That came and went. Now two Thursdays in May have come and gone without the device that many of us are waiting for.
You are not doing anything but making customers angry by dragging your feet, not releasing the device, and not giving us a release date. You are holding on to a phone that was available in Europe last October, albeit without CDMA support. Which means if you wait much longer you will be releasing a year-old phone. Do you think it is all right to treat your customers like this? Are you that ticked off at Microsoft over the failure of the Kin that you are willing to drag your customers who want the Windows Phone through the mud like this?
It is high time for whomever at Verizon is throwing the temper tantrum about the Kin to get over it, and give us the phone we want. I don't want one of the 47 different Android phones you now carry. I don't want the iPhone. I and many well-informed consumers like me, want a Windows Phone 7 device. Please quit holding us hostage.
Sincerely,
Richard Hopkins

Verizon frustrating
I've talked to many salespeople about what signs there are of the Trophy being released. The general consensus is that the rumor start a month before the device is available and training is done a week before. None of these things have happened for the Windows Phone 7 device. There are two blank spots at Costco for two new devices.........maybe.....?

A dummy device was spotted at Best Buy this week. http://bit.ly/iig3Sr
XBox Live had a Verizon Trophy theme for download yesterday (since pulled) http://bit.ly/mTOJbU
Verizon employee training started two weeks ago. http://bit.ly/itTXms
The phone is currently on Bestbuy.com, and can be placed in shopping cart, but order cannot yet be completed. http://bit.ly/mbk04A
Press shots have been leaked http://bit.ly/m3wCia
Verizon is excited to offer Win Phone 7 http://cnet.co/erI5Wp
I'm not sure how much louder the rumors could get, to be honest.

Encouragement
Just talked to another Verizon guy and he said training was last week. Asked the Costco people and they said they "hoped" that one of the spaces was for the Trophy.

You're going to learn very little if anything at all by canvasing the VZW employees and retailers. They can (and often do) lose their jobs for letting information out. And since they often do leak, they are often kept more in the dark than those of us who know how to use Twitter.

I just had a nice chat with Lachelle at Verizon Wireless. I voiced all of the concerns I've had, blah blah blah.
Among the things she said:
1. We can't give out release dates for our phones because it affects our competitiveness. My response: You announced on Feb 11 that you were going to carry iPhone, release in a month. You gave a month notice, and you launched on time. How competitive are you on this platform if you're the only major carrier in the world (with supported language) that doesn't have a phone on the platform? You have like 47 different Android models, but not everyone wants Android.
2. I will pass your comments on to our marketing department so they can look into whether we should carry this phone. My response: You WILL be carrying this device. You have made a special offer to Microsoft employees, and have modified that offer at least 3 times that I can think of off the top of my head. A dummy device has been spotted in a Best Buy store, and I've seen pictures of it online (I forgot to tell her it is listed on bestbuy.com). Your store employees have been trained on it. Verizon branded devices have been seen in the wild (I forgot to tell her about the one on craigslist). You're on the edge of launching, and granted, all I've got are rumors, but the photographic evidence to back those rumors is overwhelming. You are frustrating your customers by keeping this so tightly under wraps. The whole world, except for Verizon employees it seems, knows that there is a device coming, and the lack of information is frustrating your customers. I stayed with Verizon, and gave you until the 12th, because the most powerful evidence of a launch seemed to point at the 12th, but I NEED the phone now, so today I became an ATT customer, and I'm talking to you on an ATT phone.
Anyway, she gave me the typical "I'm going to pass this up to marketing" blah blah blah and "thank you for your feedback because it helps us to keep our customers happy blah blah blah." She also said that the more they hear from customers, the more attention they can give this issue. WRITE THOSE LETTERS!
We'll see what happens. I'm kind of hoping, since there is a droid phone launching tomorrow, that it may be tomorrow, however that is just speculation on my part and I have no evidence to back it up whatsoever. 

So... what do you think the chances are...

As we close in on the 15th, I think two things will happen:
A) No Mango. The rumor-mill did it again.
B) Microsoft will STILL not have learned their lesson about replying to rumors.
They have to know what is being said on every single blog on earth. Type Mango into Google and it pulls up 500 news stories that say "durr will Sept 15 be release date??". Yet the closest thing I can find is a reply to a comment on the dev team blog. What happened to that guy who was hired after the NoDo fiasco to liaise with consumers?
Rule 1 in their position should be addressing rumors. No matter how small. Set up a "wp facts" page. Address the 15th rumor or whatever is next. By not, they're shooting themselves in the foot. I'm a cold-hearted cynic, and even I'm half convinced that it may actually begin being launched tomorrow.

A. I think the chance is rather high, but one never knows until that day gets here, right? That's what makes those rumors so power - the suspense of it. If it doesn't come people will just blame the carriers or OEMs. I think Microsoft was smart to say that their job was done, but they threw the OEMs and carriers under the bus in the process. Microsoft still has to approve the OTA even after the OEMs and Carriers do their thing, and there really isn't much to do since you they aren't allowed to bake in a ton of apps like on Android, WinMo/Symbian, and BB.
B. I think Microsoft thinks it helps them because it gets headlines, but when those days come and go the disappointment more than counters whatever was gained leading up to those days.

They did set up a webpage. Mango is not on it yet.

Just to answer your question. The guy they hired to be customer facing said in a blog post about a month and a half ago that he was going to maintain radio silence and "the next blog post will be the announcement that it is being released." A lot of good that's doing him.
While I wish they could have a concrete release date, I do wish they would at least deny dates. Sure it's our own fault for investing to heavily into unsubstantiated rumors, but they really could kill all of the speculation with one quick blog post.
Although the guys who said the release was this week have been spot on with their previous predictions, I may have to bet against this one.
Sent from my LG-C900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

A: Microsoft only have an estimate date of when Mango will be ready for roll out.
B: Microsoft will only roll out the update after it test the update infrastructure.

Lol @ test the update infrastructure.
No.
Also, "this fall" is not an estimated date. Fall is a season, not a month, not a week, and certainly not a date. It's a 3 month season and if they wish to pass that off as an estimated date, I guess it means they genuinely think their customers are idiots. An estimated date would be something along the lines of "the second week of September." "This fall..." That tells me nothing other than "we're giving ourselves a 3 month span so that if they ahve to wait until the dawn of Winter, we won't look like idiots."
But anyways, we've seen this tactic employed recently. Remember the Samsung US Galaxy S FroYo updates and #NeverAgain? Yea, that's basically what happened. I'm suprised WP7 users aren't furious they had to wait a whole year for an update, but this seems like a special kind of user base. Microsoft must be ecstatic they're given so much rope to play with (then again, they didn't sell 10M phones like Samsung, probably 3-4M in the US alone)...
Main issue is getting the update through the OEMs and carriers. Most OEMs already have the update ready, and they're even making new stock Mango phones.
Carriers are another deal, but I'm suprised it takes carriers so long with WP7 updates when they have a lot less stuff to test due to their inability to bake as much bloatware into the devices' ROMs and stuff like that.
Maybe the carriers are waiting for their partners (TeleNav, MobiTV, Slacker, Netflix, etc.) to get their apps Mango-ready before they approve it? Cause we all know they won't Okay the update if their subscription-based Value-Adds don't work correctly on it...

sure haven't said:
B) Microsoft will STILL not have learned their lesson about replying to rumors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft has a policy concerning rumors. That is they do not comment and that is the best policy.
If this rumor is true, MS might make an announcement in the next few days and then the download will be available. If that's the case, then there was no need to comment on the rumor and say "Yes Mango is coming this week, but we want it to be available shortly after we announced it so we're not announcing it today."
If the rumor is false, people might be pissed at MS but they have no reason to be so. We do not know who started the rumor and all we ever heard from MS was "fall".
Now if MS were to dismiss every incorrect rumor as soon as they can (to not get up expectations), a missing comment on a rumor would kind of mark it as true.
They only comment on rumors when the rumor really might leave many people disappointed, like the Xbox + blu ray thing a couple of years ago.
Xbox 360s have sold way better than Windows Phones and this Mango rumor might be a big deal for us enthusiasts, but apart from us that's that.

BTW, I saw someone yesterday or the day before casually toss out the 2 PM PST time for a Mango release. That rumor's now dead.

I have a feeling it will be released on the 20th

9/15 isn't mango day, that was another rumor, folks. We've been saying "fall"... it's not fall yet! http://t.co/ZcvBO5ys
From joebelfiore on twitter.
I5 launching around then. Theyre dumb.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

sure haven't said:
As we close in on the 15th, I think two things will happen:
A) No Mango. The rumor-mill did it again.
B) Microsoft will STILL not have learned their lesson about replying to rumors.
They have to know what is being said on every single blog on earth. Type Mango into Google and it pulls up 500 news stories that say "durr will Sept 15 be release date??". Yet the closest thing I can find is a reply to a comment on the dev team blog. What happened to that guy who was hired after the NoDo fiasco to liaise with consumers?
Rule 1 in their position should be addressing rumors. No matter how small. Set up a "wp facts" page. Address the 15th rumor or whatever is next. By not, they're shooting themselves in the foot. I'm a cold-hearted cynic, and even I'm half convinced that it may actually begin being launched tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What lesson do they have to learn? They get free publicity, the only ones disappointed are the idiots that power the rumor mill.

fb401 said:
Just to answer your question. The guy they hired to be customer facing said in a blog post about a month and a half ago that he was going to maintain radio silence and "the next blog post will be the announcement that it is being released." A lot of good that's doing him.
While I wish they could have a concrete release date, I do wish they would at least deny dates. Sure it's our own fault for investing to heavily into unsubstantiated rumors, but they really could kill all of the speculation with one quick blog post.
Although the guys who said the release was this week have been spot on with their previous predictions, I may have to bet against this one.
Sent from my LG-C900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by the way, that's the same guy that kept radio silence while the blog was exploding with angry people during the nodo update failure.
The best thing for EVERYONE, devs, users, shops, etc would be to a predetermined release date, well in advance too. Failing that, as the date closes in, more and more accurate time windows. Failing that too, bad enough as it is, at least dispel rumors. Because it's not like people are EXCITED about the update. People are IMPATIENT. And rightly so, you're putting out features that have been on every smartphone for a long time !

let face with it or without mango WP7 is never going to win much of the market share, I expect theres a few who will have renewed their contact & jumped OS's before the mango hits the consumer ?