Related
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html
darthbane2k said:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html
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I think its pretty shameful.
Surur
Hmmm....
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.
i think this thread should be trash as its counter productive
rjgraves said:
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.
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That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me
This does not prove anything. In fact, I was just reading a recent study which suggests that based on the trends that symbian phones are the ones on the way out and that WM phones, IPhone and other smart phones are all on the rise. Look at the MOTO Razr - it use to be the best selling phone on the market, not anymore. In fact - Motorolla is hurting and at risk now because they can't come out with a device to compete against the new WM smartphones - IPhone, Android phones etc....
think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away
Calling it a dying OS is pretty meaningless based on the release of an application from a single group in the Microsoft Labs (like google labs, it's more like a play area). Microsoft Labs has released a number of things that were never meant to go anywhere, and often things that were discontinued despite being popular. Considering what the application does (in terms of audience), it's more likely that the application was released to test the Deep Zoom service, or at least build up it's user base. Assuming popularity of Seadragon, I wouldn't be surprised to see it included in a lot of WM7 phones when they come out soon. This is also a common move by microsoft, waiting to release an app until they can make a grand entrance with it, which packaging this along with WM7 definitely fits.
Also remember that WM6.1 is actually the oldest of the smartphone competitors out there. We all know that MS is going to be releasing 7 in the very near future, which by all reports should put it into the realm of ridiculously cool features and in many ways it will either match or exceed almost anything currently out.
Rudegar said:
think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away
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I second this
totally agree
WM is going nowhere for the short term, when we get like Palm OS *then* I'll worry.
to say because MS released one app for iPhone befroe WM means the WM is dying is like saying the MS Office for Mac foreshadowed the downfall of the PC!
All it really means is tha MS acknowledges there is another market for their products.
i think its ms making the point that even the die hardest mac fan cant live without ms products
I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.
motionmind said:
I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.
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Cannot be done.
Apple does not allow software in their app store that resembles or competes too directly with anything they are putting out. Zune would obviously be a direct competitor.
Obviously there's always jailbroken iphones which could install it, but most of the apps people install with that are small distribution and generally not a threat. If microsoft put out the Zune software specifically with jailbroken iphones in mind, it would take less than a blink before Apple's lawyers were having orgasms at the idea of getting MS into court.
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...but I only do that because I also believe that it would be a truly great thing to see Apple forced into allowing the Zune software after they've worked so hard to exclude fair competition in business (you know, the same thing that kept MS court for a decade)
Sorry if that sounds bad, I admit, I've hated apple since before there were hard drives in their computers
speed_pour said:
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...
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I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't mind having an iPhone if I could use my Zune subscription service with it. I've tried iTunes and it's really a cluttered mess compared to the Zune software, plus no subscription options. My wife has an iPhone and a Zune player because of this same issue.
derekwilkinson said:
That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me
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I can't confirm anything, but two years ago I think their R&D department consisted of a single guy with an old M505. Windows Mobile might not get all the cool stuff, but at least it's up to date and totally hackable.
I love the open platform and all its possibilities
I'm quite certain that there is a simple and clear reason for releasing seadragon on the iPhone before WM.
The iPhone exists in the form of two handsets only, and they are near identical hardware. This means that it is simple to write some code to make use of the CPU and graphics acceleration in the best possible way.
There are huge numbers of WM handsets, and they all have different capabilities and different hardware interfaces. This make it damn near impossible to code an application like seadragon. None also the dearth of genuinely impressive 3d games on the WM scene, as against the iPhone app store. Same reason.
Any games we make have to be tweaked for different resolution, hardware etc. Even the prolific developers (the guy behind s2u2, s2v etc.) finds it difficult and has to hard code in support for direct3d, opengl and all sorts of different things. Even then s2v struggles on the better phones out there.
I wonder why people keep reading msmobiles... it is the windows mobile equivalent of a tabloid, and the arguments the author keeps making over and over and over again can at best described as clownish.
http://vhxn.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/microsoft-releases-seadragon-for-iphone-before-windows-mobile/
Microsoft.
With that we can get an idea of how much microsoft cares about it`s platform
belabartok said:
With that we can get an idea of how much microsoft cares about it`s platform
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Yep, it's something we've all sort of known for a long time though, windows mobile development is being left almost entirely in the hands of third parties.
defroster said:
Yep, it's something we've all sort of known for a long time though, windows mobile development is being left almost entirely in the hands of third parties.
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Which is a good thing!
Imagine for a second that Microsoft would deal with its own platform as Apple does with theirs! I appreciate that 3rd party developers can freely program and develop and offer their software without having to wait until the os developer or manufacturer decides to make it available to their users through their store platform.
Nether-the-less, you guys really get the wrong ideas about Microsoft and their marketing strategies. MS releasing something for Apple devices before even released for Windows devices does not mean that they don't care about their own platform but rather that they are quite business smart! Apple might not have had interest in this if it would have been released already for WM; in addition, MS gets a food in the door step of Apple ... just widen your imagination and you will realize that the reasons for this are obviously not the one's suggested in the above posts!
the iphone is eating into the marketshare of everybody, not only WM... probably WM is hurth the least, look at nokia's differences since the release of the iphone.
i think posting this is a bit counter productive
jayjay8585 said:
i think posting this is a bit counter productive
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I'm not sure how productive your post was.
But it's a simple fact and it's worth discussing I think.
Ok guys i think i will sell my hermes then im not staying with ms no more if he is going to give iphone apps before his own platform whats up with this ****hole of a company.
defroster said:
I'm not sure how productive your post was.
But it's a simple fact and it's worth discussing I think.
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it wasnt productive but i think posting it in that manner is like wearing the end is nigh sandwich boards
im pee'd off too but i think we should always se ms winmo as the best
jayjay8585 said:
it wasnt productive but i think posting it in that manner is like wearing the end is nigh sandwich boards
im pee'd off too but i think we should always se ms winmo as the best
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that's just being a fanboy. if they can't be bothered making a respectable product why should we not move to apple, android, symbian or whatever? These are just tools and MS has counted on it's market share carrying it for too long, not just with mobile os's.
im not saying we cant move i just think posting threads sataing winmo is dying is bit of a drag on a forum that do a lot for this os
but still i reckon it is a good talking point titles daunting thats all
its seems a bit more impartial now
did you see the article on apple being ahead in sales of all winmo phones that mega insane thats not long after i heard iphone users are a niche market
Topic modified to be less daunting.
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
emesbe said:
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
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well said i also believe that the iphone is a toy and not for professional use
emesbe said:
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
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Microsoft had Office for Mac before they had Office for Windows..
ilovethisplace said:
Microsoft had Office for Mac before they had Office for Windows..
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I think they do this to prove they're not an evil empire hellbent at becoming a monopoly. But all us MS users hate it...and should.
For the hell of it, that Seadragon app is some cool stuff. Can't wait to see how it looks on my Tilt.
nuke1 said:
I think they do this to prove they're not an evil empire hellbent at becoming a monopoly. But all us MS users hate it...and should.
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So when the hell do we get the Apple goodies for WM?
I am probably not considering something very obvious, such as "focus", but with the news that HP has now bought Palm, rescuing the highly praised webOS from a premature death, would HTC --- do you think --- ever make a webOS smartphone?
Aren't they playing it rather cool at the moment re Windows Phone? -- with some speculation that Microsoft's lockdowns would prohibit things like SenseUI, thereby giving reason to question "why make phones at all for Windows?" ... So, with that thought floating around, I'm just not familiar with the proprietary relationships between Palm and its device manufacturers.
Someone help me out here:
(1) Phone Manufacturers making devices for Android OS:
HTC
Motorola
Samsung
Sony
Acer
(Toshiba?)
( )
(2) Phone Manufacturers slated to make devices for WindowsPhone series 7:
??
(3) Phone Manufacturers who design phones for Blackberry:
?? (I don't know this market at all, but am curious)
(4) Phone Manufacturers who make phones currently for Palm (the Pre, Pixie)
?? again, i just don't know, have never followed this
(5) Phone Manufacturers who make phones for iPhone OS:
Apple
(some knock-off called Syphone, right? but does it actually run apple's OS?)
I'm pretty sure blackberry design its own phones.
Everyone (or at least most of them) you have listed up in the Android section is also making WP7 devices. Additionally also DELL. Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
WalkingTaco said:
I'm pretty sure blackberry design its own phones.
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Really? They have in-house product design, or do they contract it out secretively and just brand every result a RIM device?
I know next to nothing about Blackberrys other than the hype about redundant servers and lots of reasons why they have been billed as the secure email solution for all these lawfirm and gopvernment types...
But once they went touchscreen, do they actually have a separate OS, or do they not distinguish between the hardware and software -- for marketing purposes so as not to confuse their customers about their core message of secure mesaging?
Followup since maybe you know a thing or two about blackberrys: the storm was a bust, right? At the time it was considered laughbalethat they could penetrate the casual consumer market.. but have they come back with better offerings in the touchscreen arena?
Do you see them always in some way presrving their core hardware philosophy of keyboard below screen, single orientatation vs rotate? ... or do you think they will try to move their diehard custimers toweard bigger screens like droid, and give them a slide out, flip out, fold over, or other kind of deployable hardware keyboard?
Just curiousabout your thoughts/
RAMMANN said:
Everyone (or at least most of them) you have listed up in the Android section is also making WP7 devices. Additionally also DELL. Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
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Okay I figured that re WP7 device makers, since they came first and android was tapped next... But dell makes touchscreen devices? damn, i never knew that! Their marketing must be lousy.
Nokia keeps baffling me.
RAMMANN, I saw you commenting (i think ) in that " WP7 fail" thread, right, aren't you active in that?
Regardless: Help me understand this: I've never understood the Symbian OS or its market simply because i never had a symbian powered phone... But, isn't this correct -- about a year ago nokia bought symbian, right? But my recollection from back then -- which may be wrong -- was that they were going to kill it -- or simply use it as a proprietary OS in their own phones.
And yet... within that WP7 fail thread, numerous comments particularly at the start of the thread sang the praises of Symbian OS as the most efficient and best Open source OS out there -- with those praising it saying that, by contrast, ANdroid is a battery hog and ineffcient in its process managewment... The precise details are not so impt for what I want to knoiw:
Although I have known nothing about Symbian, the buzz, whenever i heard it mentioned over the past 5 years, was always positive... almost cult-like ... or rather "true believers" because it was that outstanding an OS...
So, if that is the case... and Nokia bought them, what WAS their plan? to give them respources to develop it further fortheir exclusive use, or what? The discussion confused me becasue it made it seem to me that it was still a very active OS outthere for developers to work with...
So what am I missing her.. it seems like I am missing the whole story. And re Nokia themselves... why are they always -- to my mind -- considered in an entirely different box or category from WM (i don;t like calling WP), Android, iPhone, WebOS, Blackberry? They never seem to get parity... The only time I hear or see Nokia mentioned is when someone wants to make a comparison about how inefficinet current phones are, and how their Nokia from 10 years ago could do virtually everything Phone X can do today (minus the big media player screen) with battery charge lasting 5 days, and stuff of that nature... or they mention the Nokia N900 as the best phone out there --- yet it rarely comes up in the big compariosn tests.
Why is that?
And does N900 run symbian OS? If so, is it marketed that way? [EDIT: OKAY I just read this part, so i see that answer is no: which begs the question AGAIN: why are devs here at XDA continuing to extoll the greatness of symbian ?? why?? Is it The Poor Little OS That Nobody Really Took The Time To Understand? or what??
EDIT: from a review contained in link above:
The main buzz about the Nokia N900 has centred on its operating system. Instead of the ageing Symbian S60 OS found in all Nokia's top end blowers, Espoo has opted for Maemo 5 instead. And we're pleased to say the results, as far as the OS is concerned, are every bit as good as we hoped. Maemo 5 is a far more intuitive OS than S60 and certainly edges out the N97 for ease of use. The menus are clear and straight forward, so you won't spend ages rooting around for what you want when you need it. It feels way more powerful too, with the Nokia N900 dealing with multitasking at lightning speed.
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And finally, this statement:
Nokia is also doing close business with Microsoft. It's a pity! They should rather jump on Android as well if they want to get out there alive
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First off, how are they collaborating? Are they not in direct competition with head-to-head OS ?
... Were you alluding to more of a case of Nokia hooking up with the wrong contender for SURVIVING ALONG WITH IPHONE -- Windows vs Android? -- or were you alluding to Nokia having company stability problems like Palm was having, heading straight inot the tank -- before rescued last second by HP?
I know these are lots of questions -- but it's because I see the events of Palm's acquisition as being way more significant than others might see. And so it has promoted all these questions... yes... about survival as consumers start to select in the next year which touchscreen platforms start to go away because they just can't compete anymore, lacking sufficient differentiation or value proposition.
Any answer -- even if to just one of my 50 questions -- would be valued! thank you
I don't know what you are all asking, but trying to answer....
I never had Symbian device, nor do I really know a lot about the openess of the OS. From what I heard it was very open in the beginning (maybe similar to Windows Mobile?) but then suddenly lots of viruses began to spread and the Symbian OS got locked down. I think it's a similar Sandbox approach like on Android. Though I can't really say this is correct, it's only what I heard from people, so far I never did any research on my own.
Nokia jumpin on WP7 instead of Android, I took a piss on it because I think WP7 sucks. Currently it's not even sure the OS will be successful. Android already is.
That's all.... really nothing to worry about or put a lot of thoughts into
design != produce
htc produce devices for others and design for others or at least used to
apple, ms.... don't produce their hardware they design it and have others produce it
quicksite said:
Apple
(some knock-off called Syphone, right? but does it actually run apple's OS?)
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It doesn't. The old ones used to run Nucleous Plus OS. I heard some versions are running android / windows 6.1 now.
Real quick, too much to read. I know BlackBerry is owned by RIM. I think they actually manufacture it and distribute it. I don't know if you were asking about RIM or just knew nothing about BlackBerrys.
And why companies operate with Microsoft: money.
Thanks for the answers.
So Blackberry makes Blackerrys. check.
Nokia to work with MS because of money. Okay.
HTC produces devices platform owners prescribe, ie to match the WM hardware and OS specs and Android hardware and OS specs.
I ask too many questions, I'll admit that. But my two main ones remain unaswered, not even close. (still, why can't people take 10 minutes occasionally for some big picture thinking, why is everything reduced down to twitter chatter?
(1) My thread topic question -- no one has even taken a stab at it. Who currently makes the phones that run webOS? i.e., who made the Pre and Pixie. ... with HP's acquisition of Palm, do you see HP wanting to exclusively manufacture Palm devices? ... or do you see them having any interest in having more device choice by asking HTC to develop phones for webOS. That's my main question. My guess is: no one knows. fair enough.
(2) My 2nd main question was what Nokia's plans for Symbian were. ANd could someone sort out the mixed message? At that "Windows Phone 7 epic fail" thread, various XDA-devs sing the praises of Symbian as a better OS than android, way more efficient. .. Then I read the review for the Nokia N900 and it says Nokia jettisoned Symbian as outdated. So wtf are people talking about re SYmbian then? And does it have a future?
RELATED: In the Touchscreen OS Wars of 2010-2011, it looks like webOS will live to see another day, WP7 will likely survive and thrive in its enterprise market niche or wherever the hell their niche turns out to be. iPhone OS survives. Android survives -- and yet -- you read some online magazines and people love to speak of market fragmentation already happening with Android, and that it's already spelling doom and gloom for Android yadda yadda... I think though that is true re the 2.1 vs 1.5. 1.6 version problems and Google ought to get their act togeher, Android , unless they misstep, is here to stay.
But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
And what of Symbian? Is it in effect dead now in terms of a platform for mainstream consumer devices?
quicksite said:
(1) My thread topic question -- no one has even taken a stab at it. Who currently makes the phones that run webOS? i.e., who made the Pre and Pixie. ... with HP's acquisition of Palm, do you see HP wanting to exclusively manufacture Palm devices? ... or do you see them having any interest in having more device choice by asking HTC to develop phones for webOS. That's my main question. My guess is: no one knows. fair enough.
RELATED: In the Touchscreen OS Wars of 2010-2011, it looks like webOS will live to see another day, WP7 will likely survive and thrive in its enterprise market niche or wherever the hell their niche turns out to be. iPhone OS survives. Android survives -- and yet -- you read some online magazines and people love to speak of market fragmentation already happening with Android, and that it's already spelling doom and gloom for Android yadda yadda... I think though that is true re the 2.1 vs 1.5. 1.6 version problems and Google ought to get their act togeher, Android , unless they misstep, is here to stay.
But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
And what of Symbian? Is it in effect dead now in terms of a platform for mainstream consumer devices?
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I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.
BlackBerry has a touchscreen OS. The BlackBerry Storm? Hello? BlackBerry is here to stay. It is very useful for office phones. My fathers work actually distributes those now instead of beepers. When you need a phone for nothing but e-mail and scheduling and nothing else - BlackBerrys are the best. Who knows about touchscreen as their not really trying to apply to teenagers and fashion freaks. They're trying to make a phone that's good for business - and their doing a very good job.
Android will always be here to stay. Trust me on this. There's nothing wrong with the market. If you did read that, it's just a rumor. Google has no reason to "get their act together." Android was just born, and it's getting developed fast. See, they could wait like Apple and make a new generation only every now and again, or shoot out updates rapidly. I like updates rapidly. =]
r3s-rt said:
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.=]
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Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
quicksite said:
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
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And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas, you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?! You actually expect us to help you? Next time I see you, I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts and demand you take me out to dinner.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sou...anufactures+palm&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...after+buying+palm&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
For many of the questions you ask people can only answer with spectaculations, esp. thread title, so what would you expect? and btw this is usually a development forum
I personally don't understand the fragmentation issue people claim over Android. I don't have an Android phone and therefore never had a chance to access the market but from what I heard people with Android 1.6 don't see applications designed for 2.1 and sometimes vice versa. Actually that's a good thing because this way it is secured that you're not installing an app that doesn't work on your phone. And if developers are still active on such projects they will add support for future versions of Android and if they don't then their projects will die. That's also a good thing. This is better solved compared to WM. Imagine you have 6.5 and install applications designed for PPC 2003. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes they work but just look ugly (designed for stylus etc.)
Like I said before I can't tell this for sure, but probably an experienced Android user can confirm this or otherwise tell what's wrong....
RAMMANN said:
For many of the questions you ask people can only answer with spectaculations, esp. thread title, so what would you expect? and btw this is usually a development forum
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Was this to me, or him? o.o
I personally don't understand the fragmentation issue people claim over Android. I don't have an Android phone and therefore never had a chance to access the market but from what I heard people with Android 1.6 don't see applications designed for 2.1 and sometimes vice versa. Actually that's a good thing because this way it is secured that you're not installing an app that doesn't work on your phone. And if developers are still active on such projects they will add support for future versions of Android and if they don't then their projects will die. That's also a good thing. This is better solved compared to WM. Imagine you have 6.5 and install applications designed for PPC 2003. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, sometimes they work but just look ugly (designed for stylus etc.)
Like I said before I can't tell this for sure, but probably an experienced Android user can confirm this or otherwise tell what's wrong....
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I see plenty of 2.1 only apps in the market, and vice versa (from all the comments "Duuhhjuu doesn't run on my droid which isn't 1.6 even though you clearly say its for donut only duhhhjjuu" I wish this was true, and this is why many dev. actually stop developing.
And if it doesn't run - it doesn't run. You get a force close. If it runs - it runs.
r3s-rt said:
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas,
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If you had any ideas about HTC ever manufacturing for webOS touchscreen operating system, i did not see them, for that was the question, and it's never been edited in the title.
you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?!
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Honestly r3s-rt, I'm not sure where I see your help at all. Your interest was slapdown from the start, and you got called out on it, and people like you don't like getting called out on anything, so you get into anger mode, and "I'm so much smarter than you" mode. That's what I meant by annoying.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sou...anufactures+palm&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
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You are correct that there's a sub-question of the thread topic that is a simple known that a search engine would tell me. If I had posted a thread topic asking "hey guys, who manufactures the palm Pre", it would be relevant. The fact that its incidental to the core question of what change might be introduced by a culture change brought on by HP 's purchase of Palm mitigates your whole operatic theme of "look how quickly I found the answer!"...
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...after+buying+palm&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
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Look, I can tell you think you are about the smartest guy on the planet, and perhaps you are. However, you are showing your oversensitivity to my comment about the twitterization of our culture 's attention span. I stand by that. "Too much to read" was you preface... That stung you. You didn't like that. So you wanted to slam. I understand that. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings implying you had an impatiently short attention span.
If you DO happen to read this whole post, consider the following:
Here is a snapshot of your search results that allegedly answer the central question of this thread:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
The presence of search results on Google does not equal the opinions of XDA-dev members.
My thread question: Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP? I think has relevance because there has been quite a lot of discussion since February and the preview of WP7 that HTC might not be so interested in making phones for WP7 given they would be, supposedly, prohibited from including any of the HTC SenseUI interface features they have been developing and improving over the years, from TouchFlo on WM to Sense on Android. Thus, if they were to be removed from the WP7 lineup, my question, sparked by the acquisition of palm by HP, was whether HTC might ever be asked to make phones for the webOS platform. It seems to me to be an interesting question to ask a forum founded around a company that started the touchscreen phone industry.
That is why there is such robust opinion on the 324 posts here on this thread thread WP7 is complete FAIL ... far more depth and insight than could be found by sequential readings from this for example:
The problem is: algorithms still do not replace humans, and much as I find your style of communication annoying, I would probably grow tired, on a desert island, of talking to an algorithm after a while and mush prefer talking to you than to it... much like Man in white and man in black on LOST.
But trust me I get it, you'd much rather be deemed right and thew winner than have a thoughtful speculation about the ripple effects of webOS being kept alive by HP's purchase of Palm. I'm really happy to hear of it. Palm threw a Hail Mary pass with their ground-up webOS and new Pre -- and it was really well reviewed, well- received, and to this day there is considerable praise for webOS. That it was about to die with palm's imminent death would have been too bad.
It will be interesting to see if Microsoft's Hail Mary pass can resuscitate its once dominant mobile platform.
General
Anything that involves all of the phones and doesn't fit in any of the other fora.
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(3) Phone Manufacturers who design phones for Blackberry:
?? (I don't know this market at all, but am curious)
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I know BlackBerry is owned by RIM. I think they actually manufacture it and distribute it.
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But will Blackberry have and be a touchscreen OS, or a platform Blackberry builds off of, or will it be phased out?
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BlackBerry has a touchscreen OS. The BlackBerry Storm? Hello? BlackBerry is here to stay. It is very useful for office phones. My fathers work actually distributes those now instead of beepers. When you need a phone for nothing but e-mail and scheduling and nothing else - BlackBerrys are the best. Who knows about touchscreen as their not really trying to apply to teenagers and fashion freaks. They're trying to make a phone that's good for business - and their doing a very good job.
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(4) Phone Manufacturers who make phones currently for Palm (the Pre, Pixie)
?? again, i just don't know, have never followed this
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Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi.
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I was never here to help? You just got pissy because I simply pointed out that you refused to search, instead you depended on everyone else.
I ask too many questions, I'll admit that. But my two main ones remain unaswered, not even close. (still, why can't people take 10 minutes occasionally for some big picture thinking, why is everything reduced down to twitter chatter?
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There's where you insulted. If you didn't mean that as an insult, it certainly came off as one. However, as I don't use twitter, other than keeping up with companies, news, etc.; I wouldn't know about this twitter talk. I could possibly be wrong.
You called me out on nothing.
I'm sorry, but your topic question is is very bold letters on wikipedia. Pal, Inc. is the manufacturer of the Palm Pixi. Almost every question you have related to who makes what is easiest thing to find on Google.
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That's the most "offensive" thing I could have said. Your response was:
Okay then, fine. That's the literal side of XDA that i find so unrefreshing. On the other hand, there are thousands to compensate for your snide attitude who recognize the underlying question is about impact of HP buying Palm and what ripple effects we might see.
Let me google that:
"ripple effects we might see due to HP buying Palm"
I'm sure it'll be fascinating, but in any event probably a lot more interesting than anything you've added here.
Chastising and pulling the old "use search" rubric is quite boring and indicative of a tunnelvision mind. But thanks for an answer at least.
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To which I said:
And that's what 90% of people at XDA find so unrefreshing. You ask a question (one very simple to answer) without trying to find it out yourself. Then you post a thread and when people respond with ideas, you INSULT THEM for not knowing! THEN, when we help for future reference, you INSULT?! You actually expect us to help you? Next time I see you, I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts and demand you take me out to dinner.
It's not like I even had to dig through Google!
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=&sour...c7fb41710deb10
Very, very simple search with 10 results right there. Don't insult me because you're lazy or just that stupid.
edit: To your ripple effect remark:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=&oq=&gs_rfai=
DID THAT JUST WORK!? ZOMG!
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Now can you follow the conversation? You called me out on what where? I got angry where? I simple stated facts, and even got a humorous laugh out of this.
Here is a snapshot of your search results that allegedly answer the central question of this thread:
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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sale-of-palm-looking-tougher-2010-04-29
^^ Also taken from my search results.
In a conference call with analysts, Bradley called H-P's $1.2 billion deal to buy Palm a "transformational deal." He noted the company's similar Silicon Valley backgrounds, and promised that H-P will invest "heavily" in Palm, and plans to expand the company's webOS into other devices beyond smartphones. He also said Jon Rubinstein, the CEO of Palm, plans to stay on. See H-P-Palm news story.
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http://gizmodo.com/5526620/hp-buys-palm-how-it-changes-everything
^^ Taken from my search results. Clearly covers your ripple effects.
Ohhh this one's a long one....
Worst Case Scenario
The real challenge might come in reconciling the brand personalities. Palm's products, regardless of how well they've sold, have always been innovative—the Pre was a breath of fresh air when it was released. HP, on the other hand, has tended to paint in broad beige strokes. And their products that do stand out, like the Envy laptop, have come across as derivative. There's also the unfortunate case of iPaq—another HP acquisition that was left to rot.
So will Palm fuel HP's creative capabilities? Or will HP stifle the ingenuity that's made Palm worth buying in the first place?
Best Case Scenario
HP has the resources to fully leverage Palm's software and hardware, and not just on smartphones. And while Palm's problem was never that it couldn't keep up with demand, its main issue—generating demand in the first place—is no longer a problem with HP's reach and marketing budget. HP's made a significant investment thus far in their TouchSmart interface, and while it's a fine skin it can only stand to gain from webOS insights. Can you say webOS tablet?
What May Happen
As for when we'll actually start seeing webOS in HP products, HP's being mum. It's reasonable to expect we won't hear anything more official until the transaction is complete, but there are some very clear paths they can (and probably will) take:
• Phones—Whither the iPaq? Ha, who cares! It's doubtful that HP would spend this kind of money on an established brand like Palm just to murder it in service of a flimsy brand like iPaq. HP's phone line has always been undistinguished, so for them to buy Palm is effectively to install a pre-made, well-regarded mobile division into their company. So, what does this mean in terms of actual phones?
There will probably be another generation of webOS phones. Yesterday, I wouldn't have felt certain about this; today, it's a good bet. Palm was living and dying by the Pre and Pixi, which were first-gen products running a first-gen operating system. HP's massive resources will give the OS the kind of time it needs to spread its wings on time-appropriate hardware. Imagine a webOS phone with WVGA resolution; with a Snapdragon processor; with a genuinely responsive interface. That's what we're talking about here. Forget the Pre Plus—it's time to start waiting for the Pre II.
The only awkward point here is that HP is an official partner with Microsoft for Windows Phone 7. They've committed to continue working with Windows Phone 7, although one might imagine that their interest in Microsoft's platform diminishes significantly now that they've got their own in-house mobile operating system.
• Computers—With this purchase comes a wealth of intellectual property (patents) spanning decades, much of which concerns touch interfaces. HP has been very, very aggressive in developing touch interfaces for Windows machines with its TouchSmart line, and could easily incorporate some of Palm's mobile tricks into its software. By and large, though, HP's expansive computer lineup will remain unchanged.
• Tablets—HP's tablet strategy is heading in a dangerous direction. The anticipated HP Slate runs Windows 7, a desktop OS, while much of the rest of the industry seems to have opted for mobile OSes. HP hasn't shown a ton of interest in Android in the past, and their tablet plans have so far ignored Google's OS—the presumed competitors to the iPad's iPhone-based OS. Which brings me to what is quite possibly the most exciting possibility here: The webOS tablet.
No, seriously—think about it. WebOS has a more intuitive interface than Android, and better notification system than anyone else, and prodigious social networking abilities. It has a fair amount of apps. It's compatible with the same mobile hardware that's powering many of the first wave of Android tablets. This—this—would be awesome.
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Now, do you really want to continue this flaming me for helping you? o.o
Sorry, I believe this deserves its own post:
But trust me I get it, you'd much rather be deemed right and thew winner than have a thoughtful speculation about the ripple effects of webOS being kept alive by HP's purchase of Palm. I'm really happy to hear of it. Palm threw a Hail Mary pass with their ground-up webOS and new Pre -- and it was really well reviewed, well- received, and to this day there is considerable praise for webOS. That it was about to die with palm's imminent death would have been too bad.
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H-P will invest "heavily" in Palm, and plans to expand the company's webOS into other devices beyond smartphones
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I hear an apology?
Oh, NO HTC will NOT be developing a phone with webos anytime soon. They may try, but that all ends up in HPs hands. If they're smart, and can keep webos on the right track, then no, don't expect to see it on an HTC phone anytime soon.
r3s-rt said:
Now, do you really want to continue this flaming me for helping you? o.o
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Not flaming. But I will take issue with you because you are so heavily invested in being right, so much so that while you place your microscope upon certain pixels that excite you, you ignore, or just don't consider my question worthy of consideration.. which is your right, but why do you have to pollute my thread and take it totally off-topic -- to prove your prowess?
What is wrong with you.
The presence of search results on Google does not equal the opinions of XDA-dev members.
My thread question: Would HTC ever make a Phone for WebOS, now that Palm bought by HP? I think has relevance because there has been quite a lot of discussion since February and the preview of WP7 that HTC might not be so interested in making phones for WP7 given they would be, supposedly, prohibited from including any of the HTC SenseUI interface features they have been developing and improving over the years, from TouchFlo on WM to Sense on Android. Thus, if they were to be removed from the WP7 lineup, my question, sparked by the acquisition of palm by HP, was whether HTC might ever be asked to make phones for the webOS platform. It seems to me to be an interesting question to ask a forum founded around a company that started the touchscreen phone industry.
That is why there is such robust opinion on the 324 posts here on this thread thread WP7 is complete FAIL ... far more depth and insight than could be found by sequential readings from this for example:
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The quoted part above is what I care about. Not someone's story. Not someone's search results. That's not why Im part of XDA... As the Windows Phone 7 example should have amply shown... but again, pixels that didn't allow you to score. Such a tempest in a teapot.
quicksite said:
Not flaming. But I will take issue with you because you are so heavily invested in being right, so much so that while you place your microscope upon certain pixels that excite you, you ignore, or just don't consider my question worthy of consideration.. which is your right, but why do you have to pollute my thread and take it totally off-topic -- to prove your prowess?
What is wrong with you.
The quoted part above is what I care about. Not someone's story. Not someone's search results. That's not why Im part of XDA... As the Windows Phone 7 example should have amply shown... but again, pixels that didn't allow you to score. Such a tempest in a teapot.
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Please, read my last post then come up with an actual response. No more insults. You are just determined for me to insult you, aren't you?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/18/microsoft-releases-onenote-app-for-iphone-free-for-a-limited-time/
I'm not gonna lie. It kinda pissed me off to find out that OneNote, one of the best apps on WP7 was coming to the Iphone.
Does MS have no business sense?
Is there some ulterior motive?
Why would they give away a competitive edge to the very people they are trying to beat?
It's not advertising for MS since it's eventually going to be a paid app so WTF?
Also, why are the apps on IOS more advanced than on WP7? Talking about Bing search here.
Do even the MS developers not have access to all APIs or something?
This is just screwy IMO. What do you guys think?
What do we think? Firstly, I think you should have searched the forum before posting as this is discussed elsewhere, secondly; Yes, they do have a business sense - Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company. This is what they do, release software. The more platforms they release for, the more profit they make.
I do agree it sucks that certain apps have received more/better featuresets on other platforms, but I never expected anything else from a behemot like Microsoft. They have so many departments, teams and people working for them that inter-office communications are near impossible to do "right". Rest assured that WP7 will receive the same level (if not better, due to fully integrated Live services) of functionality in the future.
Dude, that post came up 18 minutes before mine i.e. it wasn't there while I was typing this and going to look for the best link so chill out.
2nd, from a consumer standpoint, saying 'a behemoth of a company so bad communication between departments' as an excuse just means poorly run company. You're saying Google is a small company? Yet their software is tightly integrated with Android, more so than other platforms with their integration.
As for rest assured, they will do right. Still waiting on that update. I'm not assured of anything until I see a more proactive approach to addressing customer feedback on Micorsoft's end.
emigrating said:
What do we think? Firstly, I think you should have searched the forum before posting as this is discussed elsewhere, secondly; Yes, they do have a business sense - Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company. This is what they do, release software. The more platforms they release for, the more profit they make.
I do agree it sucks that certain apps have received more/better featuresets on other platforms, but I never expected anything else from a behemot like Microsoft. They have so many departments, teams and people working for them that inter-office communications are near impossible to do "right". Rest assured that WP7 will receive the same level (if not better, due to fully integrated Live services) of functionality in the future.
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MS is a platform company and write software to sell their platforms. If money was all they cared about then they would have ported games like Halo to PS3 which would have bought it tons of money. Think of all the cash they're missing out porting games to PS3!
well i guess by releasing Onenote on iOS, they will have more people signing up for Windows Live accounts which is probably what MS is after.
the only thing is that onenote on iOS looks more fully featured than that on WP7....? we cant even make checklists
2nd, from a consumer standpoint, saying 'a behemoth of a company so bad communication between departments' as an excuse just means poorly run company.
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I dont get why there is media center, media player yet I still need zune player to sync my phone...
they shouldn't have spent the money and energy to do the same thing 3 times...
just one example...
domenukk said:
I dont get why there is media center, media player yet I still need zune player to sync my phone...
they shouldn't have spent the money and energy to do the same thing 3 times...
just one example...
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Exactly, why don't they just blend all those together into the best Zune media software they can possibly build? I can't hurt them that's for sure.
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
Leave it to Microsoft to try to take over! Company wars are so much more exciting than politics lol. Can't wait to see how this race produces!
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
They'll just weigh up the balance between paying a small amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS, or the costs of developing the minimum number of WP7 handsets to sit unsold in a warehouse while paying a smaller amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS.
It's a bit like supermarkets and loss leaders, will the loss on WP7 be less than the gain on paying not quite as much to make Android handsets that actually sell.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
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What tech did MS actually contribute to Android? Or better asked: What unique tech worthy of a patent did MS come up with? Most of these patents fall into the category where every even remotely seasoned developer can come up with the stuff. Of course we can't know for sure, because MS never actually discloses which patents are involved here. Because they know full well it wouldn't stand up to public scrutiny.
And that's assuming software patents make sense in the first place. Which they don't.
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules. It doesn't matter who can make it now, it's who created it first.
xaccers, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm just going to sit idly by and watch my OS actually improve rather than pallet swap, man I love being lag free.
z33dev33l said:
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules.
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So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket (pay up or else), the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
z33dev33l said:
man I love being lag free.
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So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
Gusar321 said:
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket, the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
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In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched. I mean hell, if they did it first they have a right. As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault, iOS just did it first because they run their company with force rather than being laid back and just stealing info
Gusar321 said:
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
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Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days. I love xbox live, I love a well implemented office, I love the keyboard, I love that the DVP despite it's weak processor is the most impressive piece of hardware out there for mobile devices, I like the hubs, I like zune, there's just nothing wrong with all of it. It is not flawless, but it's as close as a mobile OS comes.
z33dev33l said:
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched.
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You can't honestly believe that they aren't far fetched in this case.
Do you know why patents were created for? And what they're used for in reality nowadays? And in particular the nature of software patents? If you really believe what you just wrote, the clear answer to those questions is "no".
z33dev33l said:
if they did it first they have a right
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But what exactly is it that they did first? It's like I said, trivial things that any seasoned developer can come up with. Being the first to wrap it up in tons of legalese to be granted a patent on it is not an admirable achievement. Patents only make sense for things that are unique, where it took a lot of effort to come up with something new.
z33dev33l said:
As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault
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That's just the thing, MS *didn't* attack Google. They attacked small companies releasing Android products. HTC was the biggest and now Samsung is even bigger. But they're taking on Samsung only after the precedent was set with the smaller companies. That's abuse of the legal system.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days.
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Wow, hyperbole much? I have all that on Android. And I'm not flashing every two days. That I choose to replace some apps with other ones was just that - my choice. Choice is good. It means competition. It means people vying to create the best music player, the best video player, the best... well, you get the picture.
And what do you know, I have the lag-free interface too.
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
GnatGoSplat said:
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
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If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
z33dev33l said:
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
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I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
GnatGoSplat said:
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
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I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
z33dev33l said:
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
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Don't underestimate how much people like to screw around. I think that's the whole reason XDA exists in the first place.
A lot of people are surprised Microsoft is doing this, but truth be told this is nothing new. Intel licenses out their instruction sets such as sse2, sse3, 3D Now! to Amd, nvidia, and Via. Companies do this all the time.
I wanted to like Microsoft, because hey, that's where all my stuff is (I'm an MS developer by trade as well). BUT, they fell short. Waaay short. Navigation, Voice commands, multitasking, the list was endless.
I have a few XBoxes and almost everything in my house is Windows based, but the phone won't sell me until I can firmly say: "I miss nothing on Android that I use every day."