Related
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html
darthbane2k said:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7890.html
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I think its pretty shameful.
Surur
Hmmm....
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.
i think this thread should be trash as its counter productive
rjgraves said:
I don't think Windows Mobile is going anywhere. Theres too many of us out there.
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That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me
This does not prove anything. In fact, I was just reading a recent study which suggests that based on the trends that symbian phones are the ones on the way out and that WM phones, IPhone and other smart phones are all on the rise. Look at the MOTO Razr - it use to be the best selling phone on the market, not anymore. In fact - Motorolla is hurting and at risk now because they can't come out with a device to compete against the new WM smartphones - IPhone, Android phones etc....
think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away
Calling it a dying OS is pretty meaningless based on the release of an application from a single group in the Microsoft Labs (like google labs, it's more like a play area). Microsoft Labs has released a number of things that were never meant to go anywhere, and often things that were discontinued despite being popular. Considering what the application does (in terms of audience), it's more likely that the application was released to test the Deep Zoom service, or at least build up it's user base. Assuming popularity of Seadragon, I wouldn't be surprised to see it included in a lot of WM7 phones when they come out soon. This is also a common move by microsoft, waiting to release an app until they can make a grand entrance with it, which packaging this along with WM7 definitely fits.
Also remember that WM6.1 is actually the oldest of the smartphone competitors out there. We all know that MS is going to be releasing 7 in the very near future, which by all reports should put it into the realm of ridiculously cool features and in many ways it will either match or exceed almost anything currently out.
Rudegar said:
think wm was at first mostly intresting for business people who dident want
palm og blackbarry for some reason
and us geeks who liked to have a phone/pda that was not unlike the windows
we had one the pc's
then apple made iphones and get the interest of a lot of people who used
to say that our phone were too much bricks too complex and not easy enough to use
now many many apps are being made for iphones but not sure that it's at the expense of
of wm just a bigger market
if anybody kills wm it would suspect android as it's closer to the open wm platform then apple is where lack of openness scar us away
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I second this
totally agree
WM is going nowhere for the short term, when we get like Palm OS *then* I'll worry.
to say because MS released one app for iPhone befroe WM means the WM is dying is like saying the MS Office for Mac foreshadowed the downfall of the PC!
All it really means is tha MS acknowledges there is another market for their products.
i think its ms making the point that even the die hardest mac fan cant live without ms products
I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.
motionmind said:
I think this is a great sign. I would love to see MS release a Zune Mobile app for the iPhone and one-up Apple on their own platform.
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Cannot be done.
Apple does not allow software in their app store that resembles or competes too directly with anything they are putting out. Zune would obviously be a direct competitor.
Obviously there's always jailbroken iphones which could install it, but most of the apps people install with that are small distribution and generally not a threat. If microsoft put out the Zune software specifically with jailbroken iphones in mind, it would take less than a blink before Apple's lawyers were having orgasms at the idea of getting MS into court.
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...but I only do that because I also believe that it would be a truly great thing to see Apple forced into allowing the Zune software after they've worked so hard to exclude fair competition in business (you know, the same thing that kept MS court for a decade)
Sorry if that sounds bad, I admit, I've hated apple since before there were hard drives in their computers
speed_pour said:
I know you're meaning it as a joke (at least I assume you are), and I'm taking your joke seriously...
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I'm 100% serious. I wouldn't mind having an iPhone if I could use my Zune subscription service with it. I've tried iTunes and it's really a cluttered mess compared to the Zune software, plus no subscription options. My wife has an iPhone and a Zune player because of this same issue.
derekwilkinson said:
That's what I thought about the Clie... and Palm OS... wow, this sucks. Yet it is oddly familiar to me
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I can't confirm anything, but two years ago I think their R&D department consisted of a single guy with an old M505. Windows Mobile might not get all the cool stuff, but at least it's up to date and totally hackable.
I love the open platform and all its possibilities
I'm quite certain that there is a simple and clear reason for releasing seadragon on the iPhone before WM.
The iPhone exists in the form of two handsets only, and they are near identical hardware. This means that it is simple to write some code to make use of the CPU and graphics acceleration in the best possible way.
There are huge numbers of WM handsets, and they all have different capabilities and different hardware interfaces. This make it damn near impossible to code an application like seadragon. None also the dearth of genuinely impressive 3d games on the WM scene, as against the iPhone app store. Same reason.
Any games we make have to be tweaked for different resolution, hardware etc. Even the prolific developers (the guy behind s2u2, s2v etc.) finds it difficult and has to hard code in support for direct3d, opengl and all sorts of different things. Even then s2v struggles on the better phones out there.
I wonder why people keep reading msmobiles... it is the windows mobile equivalent of a tabloid, and the arguments the author keeps making over and over and over again can at best described as clownish.
http://vhxn.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/microsoft-releases-seadragon-for-iphone-before-windows-mobile/
Microsoft.
With that we can get an idea of how much microsoft cares about it`s platform
belabartok said:
With that we can get an idea of how much microsoft cares about it`s platform
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Yep, it's something we've all sort of known for a long time though, windows mobile development is being left almost entirely in the hands of third parties.
defroster said:
Yep, it's something we've all sort of known for a long time though, windows mobile development is being left almost entirely in the hands of third parties.
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Which is a good thing!
Imagine for a second that Microsoft would deal with its own platform as Apple does with theirs! I appreciate that 3rd party developers can freely program and develop and offer their software without having to wait until the os developer or manufacturer decides to make it available to their users through their store platform.
Nether-the-less, you guys really get the wrong ideas about Microsoft and their marketing strategies. MS releasing something for Apple devices before even released for Windows devices does not mean that they don't care about their own platform but rather that they are quite business smart! Apple might not have had interest in this if it would have been released already for WM; in addition, MS gets a food in the door step of Apple ... just widen your imagination and you will realize that the reasons for this are obviously not the one's suggested in the above posts!
the iphone is eating into the marketshare of everybody, not only WM... probably WM is hurth the least, look at nokia's differences since the release of the iphone.
i think posting this is a bit counter productive
jayjay8585 said:
i think posting this is a bit counter productive
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I'm not sure how productive your post was.
But it's a simple fact and it's worth discussing I think.
Ok guys i think i will sell my hermes then im not staying with ms no more if he is going to give iphone apps before his own platform whats up with this ****hole of a company.
defroster said:
I'm not sure how productive your post was.
But it's a simple fact and it's worth discussing I think.
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it wasnt productive but i think posting it in that manner is like wearing the end is nigh sandwich boards
im pee'd off too but i think we should always se ms winmo as the best
jayjay8585 said:
it wasnt productive but i think posting it in that manner is like wearing the end is nigh sandwich boards
im pee'd off too but i think we should always se ms winmo as the best
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that's just being a fanboy. if they can't be bothered making a respectable product why should we not move to apple, android, symbian or whatever? These are just tools and MS has counted on it's market share carrying it for too long, not just with mobile os's.
im not saying we cant move i just think posting threads sataing winmo is dying is bit of a drag on a forum that do a lot for this os
but still i reckon it is a good talking point titles daunting thats all
its seems a bit more impartial now
did you see the article on apple being ahead in sales of all winmo phones that mega insane thats not long after i heard iphone users are a niche market
Topic modified to be less daunting.
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
emesbe said:
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
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well said i also believe that the iphone is a toy and not for professional use
emesbe said:
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
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Microsoft had Office for Mac before they had Office for Windows..
ilovethisplace said:
Microsoft had Office for Mac before they had Office for Windows..
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I think they do this to prove they're not an evil empire hellbent at becoming a monopoly. But all us MS users hate it...and should.
For the hell of it, that Seadragon app is some cool stuff. Can't wait to see how it looks on my Tilt.
nuke1 said:
I think they do this to prove they're not an evil empire hellbent at becoming a monopoly. But all us MS users hate it...and should.
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So when the hell do we get the Apple goodies for WM?
Hey,
I work for a large multinational(10000+ employees) that is doing the unthinkable and standardizing on iphones for all smartphones...up to now as long as you had an exchange compatible phone, it was ok....
Personally I wanted to get a new WP7 phone as I'm coming from WM.
There are possibilities around it on a case by case basis but I need some help from you guys with reasoning why the iphone would not be ideal for business(outside sales group)...
I use my wm phone right now mostly for email but also a lot for opening and modifying excel sheets and sometimes word sheets, PDF's, navigation and some audio(I use my zune HD now for that)...I don't believe with the new ios that it has native MS office integration, correct?
Any tips would be ideal so that at least I can continue with a wp7...
look for another job?
There is nothing you can do... no company will accept such a new platform as a standard, besides Dell? lol I don't know... there is PDF support, uhm exchange is there, flash will be there soon... there are devices with QWERTY keyboards(Dell Venue Pro), that might prove much more productive than a soft keyboard. WP7 is a much better business phone than iOS, however convincing that to people who who think iPhone has the most apps as pretty hard. I tried convincing some people that Android was more productive than iPhone, of course they laughed . Just present WP7 as a business phone with luxuries... another thing would be WP7 has a far more superior calendar system. Reason I wouldn't even try is because WP7 doesn't have multi-tasking or copy-paste, something I believe business users might need more than XBL :|
you don't have to convince them to send all their phones out as windows phone... just to allow you to use a windows phone correct? if that's the case, what do they see in the iPhone? do they rely on a particular application?
for the WP7 case... if your work place uses sharepoint (i'd imagine so given the numbers you showed), well WP out of the box supports that, has better office integration and functionality than any other mobile OS, even with their third party applications. Also, WP7 has exchange 2003 sp2, 2007, 2010 full support.
That in itself should be enough to say that WP can work for your work place. But yea, if there is a particular app that they need, or they created themselves... unless you're a dev and can reproduce it for WP, you may be out of luck.
So far I am actually liking the iOS better than WP7 after playing with the HD7 for 2-3 days... grrr...
Microsoft is determined to win the phone wars, or at least become one of the top 2-3 players. 500 million spent on advertising alone is no joke. I honestly think they will be pouring out updates for their OS.
As a long time Exchange admin, I'm not surprised about this. There's plenty of reason to go to iPhone--decent Exchange support, lots of apps, etc--and although those things will all eventually be true for Windows Phone 7, today only the first item is true. Right now, Windows Phone 7 is an untested platform. Can't say I blame them, though frankly I feel iOS is a very "last gen" OS compared to WP7. Still...it's a mature platform, and for business use, that's valuable.
jasongw said:
decent Exchange support
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ouw there are many things which dont work with eas + ios
http://blogs.technet.com/b/jribeiro...-windows-mobile-android-nokia-apple-palm.aspx
Also the iPhone dont have Office, but open office which you have to pay for.
So no reading docs on the go edit them and sending back.
At the Uni i work someone had the bright idea of having iphones as corp devices. They went right over my head and now when ever a iPhone goes wrong on exchange they have to send someone out to fix it.
The iPhone doesnt support everything that a windows phone does on exchange.
Lets face it WP7 sucks to, ok it does the basics but you still dont get Task sync and you need to have exchange 2010 to use all the options.
this is also a similar issue to Android. Android provides read only functionality to office facilities, even with third party applications (from what i'm aware). given this is built right into the phone, there is no added cost to the end user.
This is a clear example of what MS was talking about when they said that Android isn't really free. Sure the core is free, but to get the products that can match the quality and functionality of Windows Phone, you are really look at greater costs than what MS asks for.
Thanks guys...
Yeah, it's just to convince them for me...no chance for the company wide...I'd like to convince them for the people working for me as well but this seems unlikely although those guys probably look at getting an iphone as a coup...the decision, like many decisions at big companies, has little to do with logic and all to do with politics.
Some good info here guys...appreciate it.
I agree, right now windows phone is not even at wm level but one can assume it will be very soon.
For the iphone, do you know if those office apps allow you to edit documents?
eh, WP7 is fully intergrated with microsoft office, plus windows live ID. iOS is not. im guessing your company uses PC`s and windows rather than macs? if you want easier transitons for docs and editing them WP7 is the way to go. after all WP7 it dosnt need "an app for that"
I suspect the reason your company is moving to iPhone is because the nutjob who signs the cheque on the corporate phone strategy is an iPhone fanboi and what he says goes.
Corporate phones without a keyboard = EPIC FAIL.
Jim Coleman said:
I suspect the reason your company is moving to iPhone is because the nutjob who signs the cheque on the corporate phone strategy is an iPhone fanboi and what he says goes.
Corporate phones without a keyboard = EPIC FAIL.
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I could not have said it better....my local IT person was completely perplexed by this decision...
Agree with the keyboard thing as well...for a personal phone I've no problem without a keyboard but when you are writing upwards of a 100 emails a day...virtual keyboards suck...
I guess, the worst case is you buy a WP7 SIM free, use your work SIM and connect to EAS just like the iPhones..... Unless you are not allowed to by policy - or they have locked anything down...!?
I am using WP7 Mozart on Orange for last 2/3 weeks. I was previusly using HTC Legend. The WP7 EAS and Outlook is very good. I have two EAS accounts and a Hotmail account all sync very well.
maclemy said:
I guess, the worst case is you buy a WP7 SIM free, use your work SIM and connect to EAS just like the iPhones..... Unless you are not allowed to by policy - or they have locked anything down...!?
I am using WP7 Mozart on Orange for last 2/3 weeks. I was previusly using HTC Legend. The WP7 EAS and Outlook is very good. I have two EAS accounts and a Hotmail account all sync very well.
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The only thing I'm not sure about is that currently with my winmo phone and work we use a certificate that is put in the root(actually 2 certificates) and from what I've read right now this is not officially supported with windows phone 7 although there are work arounds...if iphones don't offer that then I guess I'd be fine anyway....
For me I'll see what I can do as I have a zune pass and definitely want the phone even for that alone but I was really hoping to use the benefits of the cloud solution of windows phone with my team (sharepoint, office,etc...)...
The Gate Keeper said:
this is also a similar issue to Android. Android provides read only functionality to office facilities, even with third party applications (from what i'm aware). given this is built right into the phone, there is no added cost to the end user.
This is a clear example of what MS was talking about when they said that Android isn't really free. Sure the core is free, but to get the products that can match the quality and functionality of Windows Phone, you are really look at greater costs than what MS asks for.
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Ji6 gave galaxy s full thinkfree office. You can create, edit and save files.
That depends on what phond u have though.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
so then it's carrier based software? but yea, it would then come down to manufacturer/carrier to put the added cost in somewhere to offer the same level that windows phone offers, but yes of course it can be done, not saying that, just saying that the cost will pop up somewhere, whether that be direct or not is a different story.
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
Leave it to Microsoft to try to take over! Company wars are so much more exciting than politics lol. Can't wait to see how this race produces!
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
They'll just weigh up the balance between paying a small amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS, or the costs of developing the minimum number of WP7 handsets to sit unsold in a warehouse while paying a smaller amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS.
It's a bit like supermarkets and loss leaders, will the loss on WP7 be less than the gain on paying not quite as much to make Android handsets that actually sell.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
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What tech did MS actually contribute to Android? Or better asked: What unique tech worthy of a patent did MS come up with? Most of these patents fall into the category where every even remotely seasoned developer can come up with the stuff. Of course we can't know for sure, because MS never actually discloses which patents are involved here. Because they know full well it wouldn't stand up to public scrutiny.
And that's assuming software patents make sense in the first place. Which they don't.
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules. It doesn't matter who can make it now, it's who created it first.
xaccers, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm just going to sit idly by and watch my OS actually improve rather than pallet swap, man I love being lag free.
z33dev33l said:
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules.
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So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket (pay up or else), the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
z33dev33l said:
man I love being lag free.
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So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
Gusar321 said:
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket, the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
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In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched. I mean hell, if they did it first they have a right. As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault, iOS just did it first because they run their company with force rather than being laid back and just stealing info
Gusar321 said:
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
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Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days. I love xbox live, I love a well implemented office, I love the keyboard, I love that the DVP despite it's weak processor is the most impressive piece of hardware out there for mobile devices, I like the hubs, I like zune, there's just nothing wrong with all of it. It is not flawless, but it's as close as a mobile OS comes.
z33dev33l said:
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched.
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You can't honestly believe that they aren't far fetched in this case.
Do you know why patents were created for? And what they're used for in reality nowadays? And in particular the nature of software patents? If you really believe what you just wrote, the clear answer to those questions is "no".
z33dev33l said:
if they did it first they have a right
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But what exactly is it that they did first? It's like I said, trivial things that any seasoned developer can come up with. Being the first to wrap it up in tons of legalese to be granted a patent on it is not an admirable achievement. Patents only make sense for things that are unique, where it took a lot of effort to come up with something new.
z33dev33l said:
As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault
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That's just the thing, MS *didn't* attack Google. They attacked small companies releasing Android products. HTC was the biggest and now Samsung is even bigger. But they're taking on Samsung only after the precedent was set with the smaller companies. That's abuse of the legal system.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days.
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Wow, hyperbole much? I have all that on Android. And I'm not flashing every two days. That I choose to replace some apps with other ones was just that - my choice. Choice is good. It means competition. It means people vying to create the best music player, the best video player, the best... well, you get the picture.
And what do you know, I have the lag-free interface too.
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
GnatGoSplat said:
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
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If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
z33dev33l said:
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
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I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
GnatGoSplat said:
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
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I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
z33dev33l said:
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
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Don't underestimate how much people like to screw around. I think that's the whole reason XDA exists in the first place.
A lot of people are surprised Microsoft is doing this, but truth be told this is nothing new. Intel licenses out their instruction sets such as sse2, sse3, 3D Now! to Amd, nvidia, and Via. Companies do this all the time.
I wanted to like Microsoft, because hey, that's where all my stuff is (I'm an MS developer by trade as well). BUT, they fell short. Waaay short. Navigation, Voice commands, multitasking, the list was endless.
I have a few XBoxes and almost everything in my house is Windows based, but the phone won't sell me until I can firmly say: "I miss nothing on Android that I use every day."
I have searched all over the internet and there is no article that explains exactly WHY and HOW could MS collect Royalities from EVERY single company that putts Google's Operating system into their devices. and not just any amount, but 5-10$ from every sold device!?!
Could someone explain to me why ? How is it that Microsoft is earning billions from something that is not theirs .. ? And as I read in one article - they didnt even pull up the lawsuit, they are just threatening with words, and everyone agrees (HTC, LG, Samsung, EVERYONE!)
WHAT has MS made, that Android copied, and that it belongs into MS's patent claims .. ?
And, what on earth is Google doing about that ?
Igoritza said:
I have searched all over the internet and there is no article that explains exactly WHY and HOW could MS collect Royalities from EVERY single company that putts Google's Operating system into their devices. and not just any amount, but 5-10$ from every sold device!?!
Could someone explain to me why ? How is it that Microsoft is earning billions from something that is not theirs .. ? And as I read in one article - they didnt even pull up the lawsuit, they are just threatening with words, and everyone agrees (HTC, LG, Samsung, EVERYONE!)
WHAT has MS made, that Android copied, and that it belongs into MS's patent claims .. ?
And, what on earth is Google doing about that ?
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Short answer: the patent system is broken, at least with regards to software. You can patent any stupidly obvious or generic idea ("slide to unlock") and the patent office, which makes money off these, will probably accept it.
(Indeed, there was an accepted 1996 patent on using a laser pointer to play with a cat. Go figure.)
Thus, companies like microsoft spam ideas into the patent office. And the patents are taken seriously enough that many companies would rather settle than take the risk of having their products blocked.
Android didn't necessarily "steal" anything; our patent system doesn't give a crap. See, patents were originally supposed to spread out the technical specifications of an idea, in order to spread the knowhow. The problem is, where it comes to software, the technical specification is so tied in to the idea itself that they're pretty much one and the same. Effectively, you're patenting ideas, and the broken patent system now punishes others for coming up with similar ideas. There's an entire literature on the brokenness, if you google around.
As for google itself, I'm not sure they are doing anything. They bought Motorola, but that might've been to protect themselves. If they have a plan for protecting their OS' manufacturers, it's not very obvious at all.
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TLDR: HTC, Samsung, etc being punished by a broken protectionist system. The only way around it is really to get rid of the system itself.
Ultimately, the users are the ones who suffer from having to pay the costs of all this litigation, but this is probably more a long-term than a short-term effect. For example, $5 of royalties will probably not make a phone go from $699.99 to $704.99. Rather, the effect is less money going into R&D all around, and more going into lawyers' pockets. So as a user, if a phone costs $650 or $600, that's just how much it costs.. for now.
So, basically, this is a Game of US companies and imprinting their legal system on the rest of the world .. ? .. ? Cause, I dont see anyone from the rest of the world getting anything extra .. ? Damn, someone needs to remove that continent from this planet.
But, WHAT is in the core of the Android so that MS gets their share .. ? I understand how HTC Sense may be connected to some of the early WM5 stuff, but what about the rest .. ? they CANT patent almost everything, or do they .. ? And as I figured out, most of the patented stuff is GUI, that is ridiculous!
MS don't collect from every android manufacturer, just some. Basically they claim google infringe on their patents and went to manufacturers saying "pay us or we sue you" but afaik no one knows what patents are infringed and I think Barnes and Noble told them to politely get lost so not sure how they fared but it shows not all say yes. Unfortunately ms have good lawyers that seem very persuasive.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Just found out everything:
It is true, that few people know what is the actual deal. Google has sucessfully defended themselves from Oracle that claimed several patents, and purchase of Motorola from google is actually a defence mechanism cause Motorolla holds over 17.000 patents (W T F!!!!!) God knows how many Microsoft is holding, and how ridiculous those patents are being that they have much more than Motorola.
No one is considering abandoning Android cause that system actually made their devices popular, but still they all have a problem with MS blackmailing them. HTC made a boom, but they are still a small Taiwanese company that struggles all around (not getting Hanstar IPS pannels cause Apple ordered more, not getting Gorilla cause Apple and samsung ordered more, and so on) .. so the 5$ toll is pretty big number for HTC phones, and they are the ones that are in the biggest problem right now (not talking about smaller players in the game)
Damn you USA and your laws. Pizza is a vegetable, Kinder surprise is banned cause stupid american children would eat the toy. and Microsoft somehow owns Google's Android.
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
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Why would they, if they can just take what everyone else is doing and put it mostly into one system they will never need to come up with any original ideas. Heck look at iOS5 and what they put into it. They added (just to name a few)
1. icloud (in essence a play on windows cloud service with their windows phone devices of cloud storage. the exception is this syncs with other ios devices but a play on microsofts idea)
2. draggable notification bar (android has had this forever now. The difference, on ios you can get a stock ticker and weather instead of just your notifications.)
3. imessage (Blackberry Messenger for ios basically)
4. OTA updates (blackberry and android both used this before apple)
5. wifi syncing (I know windows had this in their windows phone 7 devices not sure of any others that had this feature before kies air in samsung.)
6. Reminders, see reminders by date (a lot of the widgets on android let you do this without even having to open the calendar app)
that's just to name a few and just to show every company does it, even someone as big as apple does it. If you come up with your own that's great but people don't take to it as well as something they have already had. For instance if you had android and apple wants you to come over to apple they are gonna give you the things you love about android most like draggable notifications, wifi hotspot, etc. There is no need for originality anymore. That is just what this world has come to.
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
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Why is that the question. Or are you suggesting that android is simply copied and stolen from others work?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
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Click to collapse
What .. ? U serious .. ?
Man, copyright infringement these days is ridiculous, there is NO possible way to make anything "new" if you take that seriously, as it seems that american courts do.
It goes to the extent that almost anything can be patented, so that literally any rectangle shaped phone with TS could be patented by one company and so, baned for the rest. LG/Apple actually tried that (prada/iPhone) even though Eten, HTC (former Qtek) and HP already had PDA's with SIM functions much before that.
Android was developed before iOS (starting in 2005, already co-signed by 86 companies) and released in 2007, so there is no place for ripping off Apple. And, exept for the simultaneous development of iOS and Android which have similarities, I myself as a tech-geek and user of electronics, do not see ANY similarities of ANY android feature with ANY of the MS products and I had the chance to use them all - Windows versions on mobile and desktop machines. in terms of GUI and in terms of understanding how stuff works under the hood.
Im surely not able to understand 30k+ patents that MS holds, but that is not normal, that is more of a world sociology problem, rather than an actual technical one. that is retarded.
Igoritza said:
What .. ? U serious .. ?
Man, copyright infringement these days is ridiculous, there is NO possible way to make anything "new" if you take that seriously, as it seems that american courts do. .
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This is exactly on the dot. The way people have been duped into thinking that any sort of resemblance is "stealing" is actually sad.
And, unusually enough for z33, actually related to the topic. This entire ridiculous regime exists precisely because people are so ridiculously overprotective of their own ideas (or the ideas of whichever-team-you're-a-fanboi-of) while rationalizing their own copying of ideas from other people. The fact is, this copying is necessary because innovation does not exist in a vacuum, and yet we still react as stupid little apes when it comes to be our turn.
Sent from my Terran Command Center.
Well, this is how the system works. It's not about anything true, just what you can prove to be true.
There even exist companies that have the sole purpose of buying patents and using those patents to sue other companies!
In terms of the mobile industry, in case you didn't know, it is currently one of the hottest arenas in terms of patent lawsuits.
Here is a nice graphic: http://flowingdata.com/2011/08/22/mobile-patent-lawsuits-2/