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what is Kaiser rom? is it Kaiser Operating System? what benefit will i receive if i change or upgrade my original AT&T kaiser Rom. thank you. once again. please don't be offended, i am a newbie, i have already tried find threads for explaining this basic thing, but i unable to find it, please some expert take 1 minute or so explain to me, thanky you
sepig said:
what is Kaiser rom? is it Kaiser Operating System? what benefit will i receive if i change or upgrade my original AT&T kaiser Rom. thank you. once again. please don't be offended, i am a newbie, i have already tried find threads for explaining this basic thing, but i unable to find it, please some expert take 1 minute or so explain to me, thanky you
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i just read some threads , someone said that HTC rom is better than my ATT rom, where can i download this HTC Rom? go to HTC website, they offer on it's official website ? how to upload HTC to my ATT kaiser phone ? thank you.
sepig said:
i just read some threads , someone said that HTC rom is better than my ATT rom, where can i download this HTC Rom? go to HTC website, they offer on it's official website ? how to upload HTC to my ATT kaiser phone ? thank you.
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Read this first.
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser
And then read the site for a month or so. "What is ROM"? Really???????
sepig said:
i just read some threads , someone said that HTC rom is better than my ATT rom, where can i download this HTC Rom? go to HTC website, they offer on it's official website ? how to upload HTC to my ATT kaiser phone ? thank you.
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Seems to me like you're speed reading the WIKI in the same way people read a cheap book..... don't start at the beginning, read every other chapter then (and I'm waiting for this one) complain that the book was crap because you missed something.
20 minutes after your first post asking what a rom is you're suddenly 'expert' enough to discern that the HTC ROM is better than your ATT one. Well yes - you're probably right but how long will it be before you discover that your radio might not work after your upgrade (another 5 minutes) or that you can screw up without hardSPL (sorry missed that one 'cos it was in chapter 2 and I only read odd numbered chapters on Tuesdays).
Go away and come back when you've learned how to read.
ach2 said:
Seems to me like you're speed reading the WIKI in the same way people read a cheap book..... don't start at the beginning, read every other chapter then (and I'm waiting for this one) complain that the book was crap because you missed something.
20 minutes after your first post asking what a rom is you're suddenly 'expert' enough to discern that the HTC ROM is better than your ATT one. Well yes - you're probably right but how long will it be before you discover that your radio might not work after your upgrade (another 5 minutes) or that you can screw up without hardSPL (sorry missed that one 'cos it was in chapter 2 and I only read odd numbered chapters on Tuesdays).
Go away and come back when you've learned how to read.
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LOL! Very true though.
Sepig. People are going to bash you if you don't spend a lot of time reading the wiki and forums before you post questions because you can seriously screw up your device if you don't. From your post, it will be a while before you can upgrade your phone.
Just go here and install this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=334679
Once you've install that CORRECTLY, go here for the official kaiser rom:
http://www.zshare.net/download/45579378780722/
That only took me 2 minutes to do. Wiki is your friend. Remember that!
ericc191 said:
Just go here and install this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=334679
Once you've install that CORRECTLY, go here for the official kaiser rom:
http://www.zshare.net/download/45579378780722/
That only took me 2 minutes to do. Wiki is your friend. Remember that!
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Thats very positive attitude, instead of bashing ppl like bunch of 7th graders you actually made an effort to provide exactly what the newbie was looking for... VERY NICE, I LIKEE
I totally understand that this is a very basic question but instead of loading your guns you should just point the person in the right direction like ericc191 here. Just think of yourself when you got your 1st pda phone ever...
Thats just my 2 cents..
cheers
farhanali_ said:
Thats very positive attitude, instead of bashing ppl like bunch of 7th graders you actually made an effort to provide exactly what the newbie was looking for... VERY NICE, I LIKEE
I totally understand that this is a very basic question but instead of loading your guns you should just point the person in the right direction like ericc191 here. Just think of yourself when you got your 1st pda phone ever...
Thats just my 2 cents..
cheers
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yes, true... as newbie we just don't know where to start... BUT don't just read for few lines... then open a new thread to ask question... after few minutes more, find more answer and maybe more question... open another new thread...
allright, everybody is a newbie... but being a smart noobie and {whatever} noobie is different thing... try being smart...
farhanali_ said:
Thats very positive attitude, instead of bashing ppl like bunch of 7th graders you actually made an effort to provide exactly what the newbie was looking for... VERY NICE, I LIKEE
I totally understand that this is a very basic question but instead of loading your guns you should just point the person in the right direction like ericc191 here. Just think of yourself when you got your 1st pda phone ever...
Thats just my 2 cents..
cheers
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Have you considered that I might actually be a 7th grader???
Anyway, a bit harsh maybe - but if people fall over backwards to help others who are too lazy or impatient to help themselves then we'll be as inundated with useless posts as the Hermes forums.
And fyi, I don't normally flame noobs if they've done a bit or real work themselves - instead I normally try to help.
Also fyi, I was mildly flamed as a noob - ONCE only. I went away with my tail between my legs and learned to read - once I could read I learned to write.
In a bizarre way, by flaming noobs you do help - 1. because you bump their post. 2. someone always comes along to help. 3. To get the help they have to read through the scorn at their (sometimes) dumb question or attitude so maybe they research better next time.
Besides the above I'd had a beer and a ****ty day
ach2 said:
Have you considered that I might actually be a 7th grader???
Anyway, a bit harsh maybe - but if people fall over backwards to help others who are too lazy or impatient to help themselves then we'll be as inundated with useless posts as the Hermes forums.
And fyi, I don't normally flame noobs if they've done a bit or real work themselves - instead I normally try to help.
Also fyi, I was mildly flamed as a noob - ONCE only. I went away with my tail between my legs and learned to read - once I could read I learned to write.
In a bizarre way, by flaming noobs you do help - 1. because you bump their post. 2. someone always comes along to help. 3. To get the help they have to read through the scorn at their (sometimes) dumb question or attitude so maybe they research better next time.
Besides the above I'd had a beer and a ****ty day
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And the hard work from these cookers is free anyway (donations that is) so just do your home work first before posting. Is that too much to ask - an intelligent question?
shawndh said:
And the hard work from these cookers is free anyway (donations that is) so just do your home work first before posting. Is that too much to ask - an intelligent question?
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Flaming is a bit pointless if done to someone who, as was obviously the case here, comes with a complete blank and probably doesn't even know what a wiki is and what/where to look first.
On the other hand, it's a perfect opportunity to throw one's wisecracks at the noob and entertain the forum. A bit too easy though, don't you think?
There is a difference between helping or spoiling
tugas2khas said:
yes, true... as newbie we just don't know where to start... BUT don't just read for few lines... then open a new thread to ask question... after few minutes more, find more answer and maybe more question... open another new thread...
allright, everybody is a newbie... but being a smart noobie and {whatever} noobie is different thing... try being smart...
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Totally agree! This forum is not started just a few days ago. There are plenty of info. to solve most problems. Encourage people being lazy is actually not good for them. No need to scold them but just point them to the right place to read. If they don't. Just ignore them. I've been ignored before, but now I am able to cook my own Kaiser ROM.
Spoiling people is not helping.
In fact I would propose there is a black out period like 24hrs to 48hrs that a newbie cannot start any new thread. They may post to ask question but not starting new thread as soon as they register the forum.
Sad but true.
It seems that people are not into reading these days. Such a shame, cause reading makes you intelligent ! *ping*
No but seriously, read the forum starting with the Wiki. After that please remind yourself that you are NOT an IT-geek which makes the whole process probably even more dangerous. After the coscideration that your computerskills utterly -suck- , click cross in the right-upper-corner and have a nice day.
with love!
I see this as a website to go to to find answers.
Similarly to how I would go to Dell.com (or whatever) if I wanted to find a PC to buy to play my latest game I bought.
I don't go reading through the technical manual on how a CPU or GPU works so that I know which one to buy. I look to the people who already have the knowledge to answer the questions I have.
Most of the regular posters on here (I'm guessing) already know a lot about flashing PDAs etc... especially the first guy who flamed the OP. If you don't want to share your knowledge then don't take part in the forum. Yes, there are people who are trying to find an easy way to learn everything that you know and I agree that they should do their research etc... but this guy was abviously wanting a few pointers and got blasted for it. Take it as a compliment that he feels confident in this forum to be able to prvide him with the bit of knowledge he requires to do a flash and then be done. He has never done one before and will never do one again so why does he have to spend weeks reading material that potentially could give him answers that you could write in a line or so?
Please, don't flame the noobs.
I find that more often than not they don't come back.
Look how many times he has replied to this thread since the first guy flamed him... none.
No ill feelings to the original poster, as we were all there one day,
but to see it as a thread headline made me laugh!!! Actually made my day!
No worries, ROM Flashing is easy as hell!!
ojfoggin said:
I see this as a website to go to to find answers.
Similarly to how I would go to Dell.com (or whatever) if I wanted to find a PC to buy to play my latest game I bought.
I don't go reading through the technical manual on how a CPU or GPU works so that I know which one to buy. I look to the people who already have the knowledge to answer the questions I have.
Most of the regular posters on here (I'm guessing) already know a lot about flashing PDAs etc... especially the first guy who flamed the OP. If you don't want to share your knowledge then don't take part in the forum. Yes, there are people who are trying to find an easy way to learn everything that you know and I agree that they should do their research etc... but this guy was abviously wanting a few pointers and got blasted for it. Take it as a compliment that he feels confident in this forum to be able to prvide him with the bit of knowledge he requires to do a flash and then be done. He has never done one before and will never do one again so why does he have to spend weeks reading material that potentially could give him answers that you could write in a line or so?
Please, don't flame the noobs.
I find that more often than not they don't come back.
Look how many times he has replied to this thread since the first guy flamed him... none.
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Nobody get paid in this forum. You pay Dell for their machine so you may and should entitle some service. If you get some free service AND some free spanking in this forum, that is life, no flesh does not come with blood. Even experienced one may get spanked once a while by asking non-sense question. No need to be too thin-skin.
You may also be the lucky ones who has plenty of money and being pampered and like the noobs who like to ask million dollar question like "Which is the best ROM in this forum?" or "How do I flash my ROM step_by_step with guaranteed no risk?" or "Where do I get free SIM unlock service?" and expect an answer right away.
Many people paid to have their machine unlocked. Getting knowledgeable advice from someone is a service and entitled to get compensation for. Talk to a lawyer for advice, you will fully appreciate all the good folks in this forum and they are the one needed to be pampered and not the noobs.
One will learn and learn by reading this forum. It is more like drugs to me now.
He hasn't replied, that is good, that means he is doing reading and reading and reading..... If he is not, why he want to risk his $600 machine and ended up blaming everyone in this forum for not helping him or prevent him from doing that.
I don't think he was flamed by the #2 or #3 or # .... He is being educated! He is benefiting by this experience! The machine that's saved maybe his!
Please note there is a note in this forum which says:
Reading this Forum (Wiki) may be hazardous to your health!
Hey, I think it may also be hazardous to your family life, your love life, and/or your current job! Not just your machine!
Lets get a bit real here...
The name of this site is XDA-Developers. There is a bit of a clue in the title as to a certain amount of pre-knowledge. This guy asked what a ROM is - he could have got his answer from dictionary.com but instead decided to go to a group of people who are (or were) efectively researching on the forefront of the XDA pda's.
Most noobs (me included) have a lot of experience of computers but at first they don't have any idea of how to translate this into WM5 or WM6. But they learn quick because they already have the pre-knowledge to enter a developers site. This question was nothing like that and there is a greater than 90% chance that we'll be fending off the 'what is the best rom', 'how do I insert the stylus', 'how do you spell brick' type of questions unless he is discouraged from proceeding without some serious reading.
I know there are nice and nasty ways to tell someone what to do, but my experience of these forums is that people who don't read will not read the 'help granny cross the road' style of advice - but they do tend to get the point when flamed a bit (and it could have been worse).
Anyway, I hope he's gone away - keeps reading and then comes back a bit better prepared. And lets face it - anyone can flash a Rom, but not everyone can recover from a bad flash - and bad flashes is what we want to prevent at any cost.
farhanali_ said:
Thats very positive attitude, instead of bashing ppl like bunch of 7th graders you actually made an effort to provide exactly what the newbie was looking for... VERY NICE, I LIKEE
I totally understand that this is a very basic question but instead of loading your guns you should just point the person in the right direction like ericc191 here. Just think of yourself when you got your 1st pda phone ever...
Thats just my 2 cents..
cheers
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Actually, I bricked my first PDA phone on the second day... That's when I found this forum However I managed to unbrick it. Somehow. Can't remember the how.
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
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Yes SIR Create some rules.I don't want to be a bad guy I am also not so skilled but at list I try to read .I flash for 2 years from this forum (starting with Hermes-TyTn and noe Kaiser-TyTn II) and always I find the answer in some thread on XDA.
Newbe at list think that you can easily brick your devices and forget about warranty if you don't read before.For shure you will find the answear at list 10 times .
Developers keep the good work !!!
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
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Not to be rude but have you searched yourself? There is already like few threads addressing this same concern. It does not matter how many threads/sections we create, n00bs will always ask the questions again.
*ggggg* ---> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=356895
If you have some ideas to add there, just PM me. ^^
In my humble opinion....
WARNING.... Long messge ahead....
Since day one of reading this and other "groups" I've thought how chaotic and difficult it is to be involved in this. Speaking from an engineering perspective, the problems discussed on this board may be difficult to solve, but once solved it shouldn't be difficult for others to find the answers. But it often is!
Yes, the repeated asking of the same question is a problem. But the suggestion in the original message thread won't solve it. Yes, people (and not just newies) will continue to repeat the already answered questions.
So let's take the original question (with a little editorial license)
How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
And how about this one to make it easy for the developers as well.
How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
Here's my take on getting to the answer...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly?
3) What's reasonable to get the results you want?
---------------- My thoughts on question 1 ------------------
If I may take a stab at it at a high level...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
a) Infrastructure - Simplistic and fairly free form tool
b) Mechanisims - almost none, system depends solely on humans following guidelines, monitoring and enforcing guidelines
c) Guidelines - minimum, focused on relavance and "goodwill"
------------------ My thoughts on question 2 ----------------------
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly? (using different examples)
a) Problem: How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
- Have an infrastructure that supports.....
Question/Problem description:
Discussion:
Answer/Solution:
..... As opposed to what's here now
Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread
b) Problem: How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
- Have mechanisms to support versioning, bug tracking, documentation, etc....
Release [naming conventions, date, etc]
Features
Docs
Support [same infrastructure as 2a above]
Bug Tracking
..... As opposed to what's here now
Release announcement/Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread.
c) Guidlines is a tough one because once you get past the "goodwill" stuff you have to find balance between being too rigid and too loose while maximizing effectiveness. A steering group is often used to do this sort of thing. It could be comprised of different interests to help ensure a better outcome.
In the end, I think the solution is either - deal with it the way it is, or make it a forum-wide issue to address.
Well, a solution, like you describe it, could be a hierarchical step by step information system... but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day.
The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function. But this problem exists everywhere...
And that takes me back to a NUMERO UNO thread about search, rules and so on where a general code of conduct could be present...
Perhaps the real problem is - that we dont write enough info in the WIKI....
Another suggestion: At 4winmobile there was some threads reserved for stuff related to specific subjects (testing and so) and threads reserved for questions and "thank you" stuff.. Perhaps we should make a new SUB FORUM under KAISER related to questions that are NOT related to developement / testing and stuff like that.
Could be KAISER QUESTIONS where every question/discussion is accepted.
In that way we could open the door for all questions and more without any getting irritated with the number of repeated questions.
??
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
bmueller77 said:
but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day....
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The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
bmueller77 said:
...The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function.....
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While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
tomsenna said:
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
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Most do not READ or SEARCH... it is becoming a mojor problem... the same posts over adn over... and then the n00ns ge upset when the people helping them point the to a place to read thier answer rather just handing them the answer straight up.... getting help by asking a question is great but save the rest of us from answering the sames questions over and over when there are stickys and WIKIS to help them..... I don't know alot about this but I search and search and when I can answer questions for people.. most of which I do not know the answer to the question but I can search and find it in about 10 seconds........
Just my 2 cents
This is my first post; I could be considered a super newbie.
I just ordered the Tilt and can hardly wait, I am preparing a folder with all the stuff I need to do including Dutty's V4.
The problem with searching for a noob is, you don't know exactly what to search for. This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
A Newb Board would be perfect, with a few stickies (not the nine million that the other threads have) with the most basic FAQ and guides. From there you can link to the other FAQ or threads.
Questions that I had at first (I ordered a Tilt so they are all based on that):
1) Why do some ROM's have a AT&T Tilt Version, and are these the only ones that will work on my Tilt?-----The Tilt version of ROM's tend to include all of the "bloat" ware that came from AT&T (software trials, etc.).
-----No, you do not have to have a "Tilt" ROM
2) What is the AT&T Tilt missing that other verisons of the "Kaiser" have.
-----AT&T Strips out neat features that come stock on the phone like TouchFlo (an almost iPhone like interface for media) and also includes lots of memory hogging un-needed programs
3)Which ROM should I get?
-----Simply put there is no way to keep this up-to-date enough to answere this question. ROM's are constantly comming out and being updated.
-----Your best bet would be to stick to the most popular ROM's, Dutty's seams to have the most support. You can also look at peoples signatures.
Resources:
--Must Haves:
-----Hard SPL
-----Tilt Keyboard Fix
--Usefull Links (also check stickies)
-----XDA Wiki
-----ROM Flashing FAQ
-----Revert back to Original ROM
-----CHECK THE STICKIES!
If a Newb Board is made I would be more then happy to help create FAQ's/Stickies.
EDIT: I would like to add that the stickies are crazy, way to many replies, what would be good, and an easy solution, would be to split the sticky topics so that the Sticky only has posts from the original auther, he/she can update that sticky with new fixes/updates, and the sticky could contain a link to the discussion thread, that way the sticky stays clean, and every thing can be discussed in a non sticky thread.
Long hours of reading same question over and over again
This is my first post and this is why:
I joined the forum quite a while ago just so I could download the sim unlock for my wizard. I read everything I could find because if it bricked my phone - I knew it would be my fault. I did not have to ask any questions and the unlock process was successful. (it wasn't an easy process for a first timer)
I have been away from the forum for a while, until I got my tilt back in October. I have been hooked ever since. Before I download and install a ROM, I read. When I have issues with a ROM, I read. By the time I am done with the reading, there is nothing for me to ask. I still don't know how the cooks do it, but when I'm ready to find out - I'll read.
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
Warning.... here I go again... ignore at will
Alaskan_awd said:
This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
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Exactly, couldn't agree more. If this didn't strike an emotional cord with people, I think the answer would be... yes there are people who don't do thier homework first, but there are at least as many who do. So let's focus on the ones that do and perhaps it will give fewer excuses for those who don't.
Having a so called "newbie" area.... sorry that I'm a doubting Thomas, but what would be the change? Okay, let's say it exists. First good thing, get the newbs out of your hair. Now they have a sandbox to play in. Are the information, conversations and all else different? Same structure, just a different sandbox. What happens when they play in your sandbox when they can't find what they are looking for in thier's? I can hear it already (no one in particular of course, but the flames do happen already). After a while, who's playing in the newb sandbox? Some of those with the expertise may conclude "all the newb questions have been answered" and tend not to visit the newb sandbox. And look out... less help... here come the newbs trickling in for help again.
Okay, enough of my drama. My point is, without fixing the real problem you're just fooling yourself (IMHO). Why is it always necessary to to things over and over again rather than do it correctly the first time?
This happens in software and hardware development everyday. There's a difference between managing constraints and good enough. I suppose it happens in every industry doesn't it? I guess it's a human thing
navyguy said:
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
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Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more! And the skimming (which is normal) happens when there is no perceived value or frustration or whatever. Then you could miss a minute detail if you were looking for an answer. This happened in the last few days to someone who read and read and read. He asked a question after doing so, was told to go back an read and he did. After a couple of time it was discovered he missed one simple thing.... "cd to the directory". how many messages later burried in a bunch of other conversations were there? Only the next person who has the same problem and dredges through it will know for sure. Just one of many example out there..... and the beat goes on.
I've been seeing a lot of hostility & berating in the Kaiser forum lately. A lot of it stems from noobies with posts about things that have already been resolved, or about fearfully wanting to flash a new ROM.
A lot of the people with the really advanced CE knowledge are always busy & subtracting from their time affects all of us because they have less time to innovate & create.
I was thinking what if we created a new Sub-forum for Noobies with issues or with a desire to flash, but not the knowledge. We could have a few people there as Mods or some sort of assistant mod as a clearing house for the noobies that are coming everyday.
This could be a introduction to XDA & a way for the Noobie to learn good community principles & basic beginer knowledge. Learn how to post, search & where & how to find the information they need. A way to break them in, with a few patient people helping & guiding them.
If there were more serious issues you would then only have one or two persons bugging everyone else, (& the gods like Oli, Jocky, Dutty, Chainfire, & all the others I'm forgeting) instead of every noobie with the same question every day.
I am up for doing something like this, I've learned a lot here, & I'm sure one or two others would also be willing to give some of their time to make this place better.
With the tools available through IM & File Sharing thru MSN Messenger, I think we could cut the number of duplicate posts, & flame responses in half easily making it easier for everyone to find the information they need.
What do you think?
1. Is a noobie flashing & problem sub-forum a good idea?
2. Are you willing to help out & give back?
Yes and Yes
Every forum goes through this crap whenever a new flashing starts. Just realise that you were a noob once and get over it.
Just ignore noob posts if you don't want to help them.
That won't fix the problem. Why? The n00bs that post repeatedly answered questions don't read...and if they don't read then they'll post in the wrong forum because they "didn't know any better"...
This comes back to the same thing I've said all along...you can't fix stupid. Yes, we were all n00bs at one point. In many ways we will always be n00bs because tech changes so fast. But the majority of us take the time to read and research a bit to make sure the question hasn't been asked or to make sure we have all the information we need before embarking on the addictive ride of ROM Flashing. The ones that aren't willing to do that will most likely not bother asking questions in the n00b forum...they'll just post away in the Upgrading forum without a care in the world.
I understand the frustration with seeing so many of us lose it and unleash the fury of a thousand flames upon the unsuspecting n00b...and I apologize for my part in that...sorta...because I think they do deserve to have their brains bashed in by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick for not reading...
Agree with jarek91, can't fix stupid, just have to hope that they evolve quick enough to not be a consistent nuisance or hope they end up on the darwin awards email.
well, if we keep ignoring, soon, we'll get tire and stop coming here because the forum is flooded w/ noob questions (those questions have been answered numerous of time). They start the question with "I've searched, but could NOT find anything" eventhough the answer is in the stickies just above their questions.
BTW, before you criticize me, GSLEON3, or anyone for supporting the new sub forum for newbie, remember that, this forums is xda-developers, we develop and share knowledge. We welcome noob, but dont want to spend too much time with noob questions (most of the time I ignore )
xultar said:
Every forum goes through this crap whenever a new flashing starts. Just realise that you were a noob once and get over it.
Just ignore noob posts if you don't want to help them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I DO REALIZE THAT! I'm talking about centralizing it & am willing to help. I don't think that this is part of "Every Forum", this is the Kaiser Forum & includes the best & brightest from XDA. So why not make it a different forum, set it apart from the others & make it a better community through helping others. I think this would not only help the noobie, but everyone as a whole would benefit because the upgrading forum would be less cluttered making the search function actually usable to the new guy that doesn't undestand how to narrow his searches.
I understand about not reading, but they'd learn quickly if they see they only get answers if they go to the big bold "NOOBIES START HERE" forum. Especially if there's a sticky that says "Your post WILL be DELETED unless".
GSLEON3 said:
I understand about not reading, but they'd learn quickly if they see they only get answers if they go to the big bold "NOOBIES START HERE" forum. Especially if there's a sticky that says "Your post WILL be DELETED unless".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was a stickie?
Which is exactly how that would be met. (So I'm a pessimist...)
We've all asked "n00b" questions, and we should be allowed to do so. If you make a forum called "n00b questions" the same people who don't read the stickies will STILL post in the main forum, and say they didn't see the "n00b questions" forum.
It's unavoidable, and the best thing we can do is help the people who ask these questions by telling them to search, but also providing them the answer, so that they learn and get their answer.
met3ora said:
We've all asked "n00b" questions, and we should be allowed to do so. If you make a forum called "n00b questions" the same people who don't read the stickies will STILL post in the main forum, and say they didn't see the "n00b questions" forum.
It's unavoidable, and the best thing we can do is help the people who ask these questions by telling them to search, but also providing them the answer, so that they learn and get their answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still ask dumb questions from time to time. My intent is not to slam the new guy, quite the opposite actually. I'm talking about a sub-forum where they can find the answer & a little support to some of the most common questions & issues that arise when entering the world of Flashing & Upgrading.
A place where a few willing people can hook up with the new comer & use tools klike IM & filesharing to walk the new guy through flashing & problem solving, kind of hands on instruction where you can walk the timid newcomer through his issues while using the tools to show him, through his own action, how to figure things out. Again, a sort of less advanced clearing house of sorts. Not a place of punishment for being new, but more of a "Welcome to XDA, figuring this stuff out can be fun & exciting, let me show you how" type of a place.
I like the noobie, & I really like the noobie that has a "I think my phone is bricked" challenge. I just think it would be a nice touch to have a place for the new guy to go where he could not just find the answers, but the reasoning behind them.
I also know that many don't read the stickies, but people do read the forum headers, the name of the forum & sub-forum, & if they saw "This is the place to get answers about how to flash & fix flash issues, that is where he's gonna go. Everybody else has been here long enough to know that if they have a major contribution, where it should be posted.
It would be like tiered service, most noobie problems are similar & can be handled there, if something more advanced pops up, or a bug detemined to affect many, then the mod or admin bumps it up to the next level.
Oh, & mcmexican you think everyone's an idiot
Maybe this is material for a new thread, but...
I think we should use a new wiki.
1. The wiki software used here is pretty bad.
2. The wiki here takes up bandwidth.
Using something like wetpaint.com (there are many others) provides a place that's different from here, using someone else's bandwidth.
Also, they have easier-to-edit wiki's. I think the more attractive, organized, and navigable the wiki is, the less newbie problems we'll have.
nevermind...
I think the subforum sounds like an excellent idea. I'm not nearly an expert but have done some flashing and so on and would gladly help out if I have the time. Only problem as I can see is that it will be hard to draw the line between the "noob forum" and the regular one.
i am trying for ten minutes to put my thoughts into words...English is not my native language. i hope i am gonna be able to make myself understood...
here is how to do it:
1. create something like a gate or tunnel where newbies have to go through. some thing, where they cant right away post something. they can read.
and if they want to post a tread, they have to go through some kind of selection menu or so. just like on ebay when you want to sell something.
so lets say someone wants to post a tread, there is a selection of main toppings they have to go through. and so on. till they get automatically redirected to the answer of what they were going to ask in the first place...
they are forced to go through some kind of multiple choice thing...
2. i think its super annoying when someone like dutty brings out a new ROM and you want to read through it, to find out what might be wrong with it, just to read a million people saying: cool man, thanks dude blablabla.
don't get me wrong. i love his ROMs. but i should sent him a pm or create a poll thing so people vote on how much they like it. his treads reach easily 2000 replies. 1900 are thank you notes...
thanks dutty,
georgios
I agree. The same people not searching the forums, nor reading stickies, the Wiki, or any FAQ's will post in the regular forums anyway. I think when you get some of these people new to the forum there is so much information they get overwhelmed and just ask in the first place they find.
In another forum I'm a member of we have people asking Verizon questions in the AT&T forum, people asking about CDMA phones in the GSM forum, and such. We really divided it up... there are separate forums for each carrier, and forums for each of the major device manufacturers, then there's the Motorola forum with the Razr subfourm, and then there's the CDMA models and GSM model subforums under that. The vague questions still come... "I want to hack my phone, how do I do that???" When you finally get them to reply back with the model and carrier they have they have almost always posted in the wrong forum.
I guess what I'm saying is that it sounds like a good idea, but the problem will still be there, and seem even worse, because those that post first and read the FAQ's later (If at all) will be posting in the main forum anyway.
-Jay
I am a brand new guy to the board and have only had my Tilt little over a week and have really enjoyed testing and learning all this stuff that a ton of you guys have already mastered. I like the idea of giving us new guys a area where we can try and hash things out ourselves. When you are new you don't mind if guys ask the same questions you just ask 10 mins ago, but I know that must be a pain in the butt to some of the more skilled and seasoned guys around here. I believe if you just leave us on our own where we can go back and read what you guys have already posted for us and then come back and ask questions that we might still have between ourselves then we will figure it out soon enough and lets face it, that is how we all learn. Just my 2 cents, but please make sure you pros do stop by and check on us ever so often so we don't blow up the mobile phone world.
Thanks,
JMan
I like the sub-forum idea. Just to point out, Modaco does something like this... they have a beginner forum. Not that xda has to be like Modaco, but there is a precedent for this...
Absolute Beginners
New to Windows Mobile? New to MoDaCo? Lost and don't know where to start? Post in here and a member of our team will point you in the right direction, and move your post to the appropriate area!
http://www.modaco.com/forum.html
You could make people who like to direct and assist others as the moderators of this forum to act as traffic cops... so to speak. This will leave the cooks to focus on doing great ROMs.
I have a question for a Mod or Admin if they read this... maybe the search problem is a admin setting problem. Can someone verify that vBulletin Search to FULLTEXT inside the admincp of vBulletin?
There are also ways to embed google search into the forum:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?threadid=171042
why not create a new one?
I'm new to the forum, and honestly did not fully understand the title of the forum till now - that the forum was primarily for hard core developers. Given the success and ease of Google, we find a gold mine like xda, and fall in love.
So since there is a Kaiser, Kaiser upgrading, and Kaiser Accessories, why can't there be a Kaiser for rookies (took me a while to figure out what what a noob was). That might be a way for us lesser ones ( juniors) to talk, and the genius's out there (seniors) dont subscribe ! Then u would have every right to FLAME anyone on the upgrading forum. Plus we may be more willing to jump in and answer without the guru's watching.
my 2 cents
I think a noobie forum is a good idea. I too have seen alot of hostility towards "stupid" or repeat questions. While I am not exactly a noobie, I still have a dumb question every now and then, that's just the way it goes when one is learning I guess. I often can't find things when I search, when you are very new this is especially hard, because sometimes you don't even know what to search for.
I have received excellent help here from many kind people, and just don't know what I would have done without this forum. But even I, who am not a COMPLETE noobie, got made fun of the other day by a poster, because after reading something several times, I missed something on a page. The poster not only posted twice to point out my stupidity, but even took the time and energy to create a photoshop graphic to show what an idiot I was for missing the information. I thought it was sad that attitude was taken. I ALWAYS go out of my way to help others, with what limited knowledge I have. I often receive PMs of can you help me..., and I try my best to explain things as clearly as I can.
I totally understand that there are many here, who are way too advanced for questions like "how do I make my today look like yours?" And I would never expect them to spend time answering, when there time would be much better spent on more advanced things (and I'm not being sarcastic at all, I really do completely understand more advanced members should spend their time on more advanced things). There are some of us here with some knowledge able to help those with simple questions, so I'd say maybe people who are bothered by others posts, could just ignore the dumb questions. LOL, I've never even flashed a ROM (too chicken and broke to void my warranty), but I sure can put together a great looking and functioning Today screen. An I surely know how to install every tweak and cab to make my phone function as efficiently as possible. And, I will be more than happy to answer questions of that caliber
Maybe a noobie forum could cut down on some of the hostility, and we could help out beginners. I for one would be more than willing to answer any questions that I am capable of answering, and leave those who are more knowledgeable to deal with the hard stuff
So I'm a newbie, admittingly, and am hyped about learning how to get cubes and flowmasters on the tilt....j/k....no seriously, i'm a newb and want to figure out how to get the flo/cube/and other cool software on the unit.
I know there is a lot that goes into this and on spending 5 days on this forum searching, I still feel confused. There are thousands of threads on this and google, way too much information to assimilate with no organizational approach. I almost installed a bunch of ROM changing stuff without unlocking my phone and found out it almost became a paper weight!
So, my request is realistic and simple - can more experienced and friendly people please post their favorite threads here for every newbie to read that would help us learn in a more organized fashion rather than haphazardly. That way instead of saying "how do I install the cube", after research I can do it myself?
THANKS!
You'd have a hardtime getting anyone to help you about this. Reason being, its not that they're being an ass (a couple are) but main reason is there's too many threads of "how do i do this?" or "what do i need to do", etc. When things that you want to know, is easily searchable. It's a pain in the ass to read all the forums (trust me, cause i HAD to). But, its well worth it.
All the questions that you might come up with, they've been probably been covered somewhere in the forums. One thing i can suggest is, read the Wiki. And read some more. It's a bit overwhelming at first, but in the end you can narrow down some of your choices. Dont let that discourage you here, there are a lot of nice people to help you out.
Just read the wiki's/how to's first and you'll be fine.
Wrong section
You actually asking this in the wrong section...
I would suggest checking this out.
Slither's Cube
Poorly Duck's
Please direct further questions like this to here
Cube Wiki page, now linked under software on the Kaiser wiki. Thanks go to DaveShaw for creating it...
Asked, Answered & Properly Directed...
Closed so it can fade into the background...
Sorry for asking but everyone is a newbeeeee sometime, right
I just found this site and I really want to upgrade my HTC TyTn II with WM 6.1.
I understand that on this site aloooooot of people are writing there own application and changing the org. RAM etc etc.
I wounder WHAT RAM I should install, the official Microsoft 6.1 or...
Where to looooooook ?
Pleazzzz have faith and once more, I'm a beginner
since you are new....1st thing to do before asking a question is use the forum search function and/or go to the wiki page for your device most of your questions if not all can be answered by doing those two things...
I'm going to give you the best piece of advice I can. Don't forget the name GSLEON3. I have a feeling you might need him in the near future.
i would take the last one that came out... and everytime a new one is available -> flash it.
other possibility: start with the wiki.
Well, you won't be changing ANY RAM for years bud. No offense, but that would take a lot of address work to alter the ram alotment.
You're best friend is the wiki, & the second post on the page called Start Here.
Now I don't expect to see another question for at least 5 days to a week, becuase if you are that new, you've got a bit of reading to do.
Start with the basics & learn about roms, radios, & basic tools that make flashing & cooking possible.
DO NOT PLAY WITH THINGS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. If you're not comfortable with a process or don't understand it, DON'T DO IT! Just like anything else, you're actions will have consequences, some are good some can be devastating. So start here: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser
Then go to this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=369282
After reading all of the info there, then you can start asking questions for clarification without being royally flamed.
flushbeer said:
i would take the last one that came out... and everytime a new one is available -> flash it.
other possibility: start with the wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohh, & one last though, never trust a solution that is just flash it!
Red, read, read, understand...Then HardSPL before you even think of flashing anything.
sorry... forgot
<irony></irony>
I thought that was clear.
OK here we goooiiiiinnnng to reeeeead and reeeeeeaaad an.......
Godnight & over and out
I learned everything I needed to know from here. Everything is extensive. With a little dedication and a little geekism, you'll figure it out
My RAM doesn't fit!!!!
I'm so sorry that I didn't get to chime in earlier but I was changing the RAM on my Tilt and totally screwed up trying to fit my Laptop RAM into my phone. I couldn't find the Wiki on how to fix it. Can I tether it using Active Sync?