Related
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes SIR Create some rules.I don't want to be a bad guy I am also not so skilled but at list I try to read .I flash for 2 years from this forum (starting with Hermes-TyTn and noe Kaiser-TyTn II) and always I find the answer in some thread on XDA.
Newbe at list think that you can easily brick your devices and forget about warranty if you don't read before.For shure you will find the answear at list 10 times .
Developers keep the good work !!!
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to be rude but have you searched yourself? There is already like few threads addressing this same concern. It does not matter how many threads/sections we create, n00bs will always ask the questions again.
*ggggg* ---> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=356895
If you have some ideas to add there, just PM me. ^^
In my humble opinion....
WARNING.... Long messge ahead....
Since day one of reading this and other "groups" I've thought how chaotic and difficult it is to be involved in this. Speaking from an engineering perspective, the problems discussed on this board may be difficult to solve, but once solved it shouldn't be difficult for others to find the answers. But it often is!
Yes, the repeated asking of the same question is a problem. But the suggestion in the original message thread won't solve it. Yes, people (and not just newies) will continue to repeat the already answered questions.
So let's take the original question (with a little editorial license)
How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
And how about this one to make it easy for the developers as well.
How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
Here's my take on getting to the answer...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly?
3) What's reasonable to get the results you want?
---------------- My thoughts on question 1 ------------------
If I may take a stab at it at a high level...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
a) Infrastructure - Simplistic and fairly free form tool
b) Mechanisims - almost none, system depends solely on humans following guidelines, monitoring and enforcing guidelines
c) Guidelines - minimum, focused on relavance and "goodwill"
------------------ My thoughts on question 2 ----------------------
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly? (using different examples)
a) Problem: How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
- Have an infrastructure that supports.....
Question/Problem description:
Discussion:
Answer/Solution:
..... As opposed to what's here now
Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread
b) Problem: How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
- Have mechanisms to support versioning, bug tracking, documentation, etc....
Release [naming conventions, date, etc]
Features
Docs
Support [same infrastructure as 2a above]
Bug Tracking
..... As opposed to what's here now
Release announcement/Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread.
c) Guidlines is a tough one because once you get past the "goodwill" stuff you have to find balance between being too rigid and too loose while maximizing effectiveness. A steering group is often used to do this sort of thing. It could be comprised of different interests to help ensure a better outcome.
In the end, I think the solution is either - deal with it the way it is, or make it a forum-wide issue to address.
Well, a solution, like you describe it, could be a hierarchical step by step information system... but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day.
The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function. But this problem exists everywhere...
And that takes me back to a NUMERO UNO thread about search, rules and so on where a general code of conduct could be present...
Perhaps the real problem is - that we dont write enough info in the WIKI....
Another suggestion: At 4winmobile there was some threads reserved for stuff related to specific subjects (testing and so) and threads reserved for questions and "thank you" stuff.. Perhaps we should make a new SUB FORUM under KAISER related to questions that are NOT related to developement / testing and stuff like that.
Could be KAISER QUESTIONS where every question/discussion is accepted.
In that way we could open the door for all questions and more without any getting irritated with the number of repeated questions.
??
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
bmueller77 said:
but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day....
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The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
bmueller77 said:
...The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
tomsenna said:
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most do not READ or SEARCH... it is becoming a mojor problem... the same posts over adn over... and then the n00ns ge upset when the people helping them point the to a place to read thier answer rather just handing them the answer straight up.... getting help by asking a question is great but save the rest of us from answering the sames questions over and over when there are stickys and WIKIS to help them..... I don't know alot about this but I search and search and when I can answer questions for people.. most of which I do not know the answer to the question but I can search and find it in about 10 seconds........
Just my 2 cents
This is my first post; I could be considered a super newbie.
I just ordered the Tilt and can hardly wait, I am preparing a folder with all the stuff I need to do including Dutty's V4.
The problem with searching for a noob is, you don't know exactly what to search for. This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
A Newb Board would be perfect, with a few stickies (not the nine million that the other threads have) with the most basic FAQ and guides. From there you can link to the other FAQ or threads.
Questions that I had at first (I ordered a Tilt so they are all based on that):
1) Why do some ROM's have a AT&T Tilt Version, and are these the only ones that will work on my Tilt?-----The Tilt version of ROM's tend to include all of the "bloat" ware that came from AT&T (software trials, etc.).
-----No, you do not have to have a "Tilt" ROM
2) What is the AT&T Tilt missing that other verisons of the "Kaiser" have.
-----AT&T Strips out neat features that come stock on the phone like TouchFlo (an almost iPhone like interface for media) and also includes lots of memory hogging un-needed programs
3)Which ROM should I get?
-----Simply put there is no way to keep this up-to-date enough to answere this question. ROM's are constantly comming out and being updated.
-----Your best bet would be to stick to the most popular ROM's, Dutty's seams to have the most support. You can also look at peoples signatures.
Resources:
--Must Haves:
-----Hard SPL
-----Tilt Keyboard Fix
--Usefull Links (also check stickies)
-----XDA Wiki
-----ROM Flashing FAQ
-----Revert back to Original ROM
-----CHECK THE STICKIES!
If a Newb Board is made I would be more then happy to help create FAQ's/Stickies.
EDIT: I would like to add that the stickies are crazy, way to many replies, what would be good, and an easy solution, would be to split the sticky topics so that the Sticky only has posts from the original auther, he/she can update that sticky with new fixes/updates, and the sticky could contain a link to the discussion thread, that way the sticky stays clean, and every thing can be discussed in a non sticky thread.
Long hours of reading same question over and over again
This is my first post and this is why:
I joined the forum quite a while ago just so I could download the sim unlock for my wizard. I read everything I could find because if it bricked my phone - I knew it would be my fault. I did not have to ask any questions and the unlock process was successful. (it wasn't an easy process for a first timer)
I have been away from the forum for a while, until I got my tilt back in October. I have been hooked ever since. Before I download and install a ROM, I read. When I have issues with a ROM, I read. By the time I am done with the reading, there is nothing for me to ask. I still don't know how the cooks do it, but when I'm ready to find out - I'll read.
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
Warning.... here I go again... ignore at will
Alaskan_awd said:
This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, couldn't agree more. If this didn't strike an emotional cord with people, I think the answer would be... yes there are people who don't do thier homework first, but there are at least as many who do. So let's focus on the ones that do and perhaps it will give fewer excuses for those who don't.
Having a so called "newbie" area.... sorry that I'm a doubting Thomas, but what would be the change? Okay, let's say it exists. First good thing, get the newbs out of your hair. Now they have a sandbox to play in. Are the information, conversations and all else different? Same structure, just a different sandbox. What happens when they play in your sandbox when they can't find what they are looking for in thier's? I can hear it already (no one in particular of course, but the flames do happen already). After a while, who's playing in the newb sandbox? Some of those with the expertise may conclude "all the newb questions have been answered" and tend not to visit the newb sandbox. And look out... less help... here come the newbs trickling in for help again.
Okay, enough of my drama. My point is, without fixing the real problem you're just fooling yourself (IMHO). Why is it always necessary to to things over and over again rather than do it correctly the first time?
This happens in software and hardware development everyday. There's a difference between managing constraints and good enough. I suppose it happens in every industry doesn't it? I guess it's a human thing
navyguy said:
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
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Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more! And the skimming (which is normal) happens when there is no perceived value or frustration or whatever. Then you could miss a minute detail if you were looking for an answer. This happened in the last few days to someone who read and read and read. He asked a question after doing so, was told to go back an read and he did. After a couple of time it was discovered he missed one simple thing.... "cd to the directory". how many messages later burried in a bunch of other conversations were there? Only the next person who has the same problem and dredges through it will know for sure. Just one of many example out there..... and the beat goes on.
I've been seeing a lot of hostility & berating in the Kaiser forum lately. A lot of it stems from noobies with posts about things that have already been resolved, or about fearfully wanting to flash a new ROM.
A lot of the people with the really advanced CE knowledge are always busy & subtracting from their time affects all of us because they have less time to innovate & create.
I was thinking what if we created a new Sub-forum for Noobies with issues or with a desire to flash, but not the knowledge. We could have a few people there as Mods or some sort of assistant mod as a clearing house for the noobies that are coming everyday.
This could be a introduction to XDA & a way for the Noobie to learn good community principles & basic beginer knowledge. Learn how to post, search & where & how to find the information they need. A way to break them in, with a few patient people helping & guiding them.
If there were more serious issues you would then only have one or two persons bugging everyone else, (& the gods like Oli, Jocky, Dutty, Chainfire, & all the others I'm forgeting) instead of every noobie with the same question every day.
I am up for doing something like this, I've learned a lot here, & I'm sure one or two others would also be willing to give some of their time to make this place better.
With the tools available through IM & File Sharing thru MSN Messenger, I think we could cut the number of duplicate posts, & flame responses in half easily making it easier for everyone to find the information they need.
What do you think?
1. Is a noobie flashing & problem sub-forum a good idea?
2. Are you willing to help out & give back?
Yes and Yes
Every forum goes through this crap whenever a new flashing starts. Just realise that you were a noob once and get over it.
Just ignore noob posts if you don't want to help them.
That won't fix the problem. Why? The n00bs that post repeatedly answered questions don't read...and if they don't read then they'll post in the wrong forum because they "didn't know any better"...
This comes back to the same thing I've said all along...you can't fix stupid. Yes, we were all n00bs at one point. In many ways we will always be n00bs because tech changes so fast. But the majority of us take the time to read and research a bit to make sure the question hasn't been asked or to make sure we have all the information we need before embarking on the addictive ride of ROM Flashing. The ones that aren't willing to do that will most likely not bother asking questions in the n00b forum...they'll just post away in the Upgrading forum without a care in the world.
I understand the frustration with seeing so many of us lose it and unleash the fury of a thousand flames upon the unsuspecting n00b...and I apologize for my part in that...sorta...because I think they do deserve to have their brains bashed in by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick for not reading...
Agree with jarek91, can't fix stupid, just have to hope that they evolve quick enough to not be a consistent nuisance or hope they end up on the darwin awards email.
well, if we keep ignoring, soon, we'll get tire and stop coming here because the forum is flooded w/ noob questions (those questions have been answered numerous of time). They start the question with "I've searched, but could NOT find anything" eventhough the answer is in the stickies just above their questions.
BTW, before you criticize me, GSLEON3, or anyone for supporting the new sub forum for newbie, remember that, this forums is xda-developers, we develop and share knowledge. We welcome noob, but dont want to spend too much time with noob questions (most of the time I ignore )
xultar said:
Every forum goes through this crap whenever a new flashing starts. Just realise that you were a noob once and get over it.
Just ignore noob posts if you don't want to help them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I DO REALIZE THAT! I'm talking about centralizing it & am willing to help. I don't think that this is part of "Every Forum", this is the Kaiser Forum & includes the best & brightest from XDA. So why not make it a different forum, set it apart from the others & make it a better community through helping others. I think this would not only help the noobie, but everyone as a whole would benefit because the upgrading forum would be less cluttered making the search function actually usable to the new guy that doesn't undestand how to narrow his searches.
I understand about not reading, but they'd learn quickly if they see they only get answers if they go to the big bold "NOOBIES START HERE" forum. Especially if there's a sticky that says "Your post WILL be DELETED unless".
GSLEON3 said:
I understand about not reading, but they'd learn quickly if they see they only get answers if they go to the big bold "NOOBIES START HERE" forum. Especially if there's a sticky that says "Your post WILL be DELETED unless".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was a stickie?
Which is exactly how that would be met. (So I'm a pessimist...)
We've all asked "n00b" questions, and we should be allowed to do so. If you make a forum called "n00b questions" the same people who don't read the stickies will STILL post in the main forum, and say they didn't see the "n00b questions" forum.
It's unavoidable, and the best thing we can do is help the people who ask these questions by telling them to search, but also providing them the answer, so that they learn and get their answer.
met3ora said:
We've all asked "n00b" questions, and we should be allowed to do so. If you make a forum called "n00b questions" the same people who don't read the stickies will STILL post in the main forum, and say they didn't see the "n00b questions" forum.
It's unavoidable, and the best thing we can do is help the people who ask these questions by telling them to search, but also providing them the answer, so that they learn and get their answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still ask dumb questions from time to time. My intent is not to slam the new guy, quite the opposite actually. I'm talking about a sub-forum where they can find the answer & a little support to some of the most common questions & issues that arise when entering the world of Flashing & Upgrading.
A place where a few willing people can hook up with the new comer & use tools klike IM & filesharing to walk the new guy through flashing & problem solving, kind of hands on instruction where you can walk the timid newcomer through his issues while using the tools to show him, through his own action, how to figure things out. Again, a sort of less advanced clearing house of sorts. Not a place of punishment for being new, but more of a "Welcome to XDA, figuring this stuff out can be fun & exciting, let me show you how" type of a place.
I like the noobie, & I really like the noobie that has a "I think my phone is bricked" challenge. I just think it would be a nice touch to have a place for the new guy to go where he could not just find the answers, but the reasoning behind them.
I also know that many don't read the stickies, but people do read the forum headers, the name of the forum & sub-forum, & if they saw "This is the place to get answers about how to flash & fix flash issues, that is where he's gonna go. Everybody else has been here long enough to know that if they have a major contribution, where it should be posted.
It would be like tiered service, most noobie problems are similar & can be handled there, if something more advanced pops up, or a bug detemined to affect many, then the mod or admin bumps it up to the next level.
Oh, & mcmexican you think everyone's an idiot
Maybe this is material for a new thread, but...
I think we should use a new wiki.
1. The wiki software used here is pretty bad.
2. The wiki here takes up bandwidth.
Using something like wetpaint.com (there are many others) provides a place that's different from here, using someone else's bandwidth.
Also, they have easier-to-edit wiki's. I think the more attractive, organized, and navigable the wiki is, the less newbie problems we'll have.
nevermind...
I think the subforum sounds like an excellent idea. I'm not nearly an expert but have done some flashing and so on and would gladly help out if I have the time. Only problem as I can see is that it will be hard to draw the line between the "noob forum" and the regular one.
i am trying for ten minutes to put my thoughts into words...English is not my native language. i hope i am gonna be able to make myself understood...
here is how to do it:
1. create something like a gate or tunnel where newbies have to go through. some thing, where they cant right away post something. they can read.
and if they want to post a tread, they have to go through some kind of selection menu or so. just like on ebay when you want to sell something.
so lets say someone wants to post a tread, there is a selection of main toppings they have to go through. and so on. till they get automatically redirected to the answer of what they were going to ask in the first place...
they are forced to go through some kind of multiple choice thing...
2. i think its super annoying when someone like dutty brings out a new ROM and you want to read through it, to find out what might be wrong with it, just to read a million people saying: cool man, thanks dude blablabla.
don't get me wrong. i love his ROMs. but i should sent him a pm or create a poll thing so people vote on how much they like it. his treads reach easily 2000 replies. 1900 are thank you notes...
thanks dutty,
georgios
I agree. The same people not searching the forums, nor reading stickies, the Wiki, or any FAQ's will post in the regular forums anyway. I think when you get some of these people new to the forum there is so much information they get overwhelmed and just ask in the first place they find.
In another forum I'm a member of we have people asking Verizon questions in the AT&T forum, people asking about CDMA phones in the GSM forum, and such. We really divided it up... there are separate forums for each carrier, and forums for each of the major device manufacturers, then there's the Motorola forum with the Razr subfourm, and then there's the CDMA models and GSM model subforums under that. The vague questions still come... "I want to hack my phone, how do I do that???" When you finally get them to reply back with the model and carrier they have they have almost always posted in the wrong forum.
I guess what I'm saying is that it sounds like a good idea, but the problem will still be there, and seem even worse, because those that post first and read the FAQ's later (If at all) will be posting in the main forum anyway.
-Jay
I am a brand new guy to the board and have only had my Tilt little over a week and have really enjoyed testing and learning all this stuff that a ton of you guys have already mastered. I like the idea of giving us new guys a area where we can try and hash things out ourselves. When you are new you don't mind if guys ask the same questions you just ask 10 mins ago, but I know that must be a pain in the butt to some of the more skilled and seasoned guys around here. I believe if you just leave us on our own where we can go back and read what you guys have already posted for us and then come back and ask questions that we might still have between ourselves then we will figure it out soon enough and lets face it, that is how we all learn. Just my 2 cents, but please make sure you pros do stop by and check on us ever so often so we don't blow up the mobile phone world.
Thanks,
JMan
I like the sub-forum idea. Just to point out, Modaco does something like this... they have a beginner forum. Not that xda has to be like Modaco, but there is a precedent for this...
Absolute Beginners
New to Windows Mobile? New to MoDaCo? Lost and don't know where to start? Post in here and a member of our team will point you in the right direction, and move your post to the appropriate area!
http://www.modaco.com/forum.html
You could make people who like to direct and assist others as the moderators of this forum to act as traffic cops... so to speak. This will leave the cooks to focus on doing great ROMs.
I have a question for a Mod or Admin if they read this... maybe the search problem is a admin setting problem. Can someone verify that vBulletin Search to FULLTEXT inside the admincp of vBulletin?
There are also ways to embed google search into the forum:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?threadid=171042
why not create a new one?
I'm new to the forum, and honestly did not fully understand the title of the forum till now - that the forum was primarily for hard core developers. Given the success and ease of Google, we find a gold mine like xda, and fall in love.
So since there is a Kaiser, Kaiser upgrading, and Kaiser Accessories, why can't there be a Kaiser for rookies (took me a while to figure out what what a noob was). That might be a way for us lesser ones ( juniors) to talk, and the genius's out there (seniors) dont subscribe ! Then u would have every right to FLAME anyone on the upgrading forum. Plus we may be more willing to jump in and answer without the guru's watching.
my 2 cents
I think a noobie forum is a good idea. I too have seen alot of hostility towards "stupid" or repeat questions. While I am not exactly a noobie, I still have a dumb question every now and then, that's just the way it goes when one is learning I guess. I often can't find things when I search, when you are very new this is especially hard, because sometimes you don't even know what to search for.
I have received excellent help here from many kind people, and just don't know what I would have done without this forum. But even I, who am not a COMPLETE noobie, got made fun of the other day by a poster, because after reading something several times, I missed something on a page. The poster not only posted twice to point out my stupidity, but even took the time and energy to create a photoshop graphic to show what an idiot I was for missing the information. I thought it was sad that attitude was taken. I ALWAYS go out of my way to help others, with what limited knowledge I have. I often receive PMs of can you help me..., and I try my best to explain things as clearly as I can.
I totally understand that there are many here, who are way too advanced for questions like "how do I make my today look like yours?" And I would never expect them to spend time answering, when there time would be much better spent on more advanced things (and I'm not being sarcastic at all, I really do completely understand more advanced members should spend their time on more advanced things). There are some of us here with some knowledge able to help those with simple questions, so I'd say maybe people who are bothered by others posts, could just ignore the dumb questions. LOL, I've never even flashed a ROM (too chicken and broke to void my warranty), but I sure can put together a great looking and functioning Today screen. An I surely know how to install every tweak and cab to make my phone function as efficiently as possible. And, I will be more than happy to answer questions of that caliber
Maybe a noobie forum could cut down on some of the hostility, and we could help out beginners. I for one would be more than willing to answer any questions that I am capable of answering, and leave those who are more knowledgeable to deal with the hard stuff
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Let people say whatever they like!
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Well said. This is the worst forum I've ever come across for noob bashing. It's a shame because there are a lot of helpful people here.
The odd post I have had to make asking for help took me 30 mins or so of searching just to make sure it's not been covered before, for fear of getting jumped on by the resident 'net police'.
By the way, if this subject has come up before, I don't care because I didn't search so there!
I agree. Isn't a forum supossed to be just that, a place where people can come to ask questions even though there is a wiki, search, etc?
HEAR HEAR!!!
j1ngles said:
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well put j1ngles!!! I never had this newbie bashing in the Wizard forum, which I joined almost 2 years ago.
This is the worst forum for n00b bashing this side of the whirlpool galaxy!!!
I agree 110%. If people ask "stupid" questions and someone feels obliged to assist, then by all means do so or shut up.
I have helped n00bs by providing certain cabs etc and then I have been criticised!!!
Good point here - I do believe that one of the mods has actually issued a warning against n00b bashing, so that's a step in the right direction.
Totally agree with you.
The search function is useful, but if you are new how are you supposed to know the exact techie term to make the search results useful?! Who knows how many budding chefs etc we are turning away becuz someone jumps on their back within 2 minutes giving them a hard time?
We're all here becuz we want to learn, and develop our devices into something different and better, so lets try to support each other and be gentle on the new guys.
Well said!
j1ngles said:
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully agree with you j1ngles!!!
You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...
A good point very well made.
If you don't want to help someone out fine , just don't post a reply. Better that than to ridicule someone and put them off posting again.
I have +170 posts and still feel like a noob. if search does not give me the answer i am looking for after 5 attempts (or 30 minutes of crawling through plenty of mails) i do ask help. And i also got replies not being helpfull.
This is not about noob bashing
Shadowdh said:
You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...
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Click to collapse
I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?
We need to teach people to learn by encouragement, not by attitude.
ghostie said:
I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?
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Click to collapse
I've always favoured giving someone the link, while telling them they could (and should) have searched for it themselves. I also agree with some flaming on obvious or very frequent questions - provided the link is there and the flaming is amusing and light-hearted.
Just my opinion.
I made a similar point a few months back. Another problem is that noobies don't always know what to search for...Because they are noobies...
j1ngles said:
All,
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldnt agree more with this. I really dont see why an experienced senior member, for example, has to flame a noobie for asking a silly easy question. Either you have a few words to say and shread some light into matter, or just skip the thread, go read something else. I know some of them are ignorant, but the best treatment is to ignore questions like that. This way they will have to search for themselves, if they get no answer.
But to tell them: read wiki, search, use google is simply too useless, will not help anybody.
I understand both sides, but you have to see that once you see a trillion questions asking the same thing, then you get a little frustrated.
I dont think XDA is a service. XDA is a community where people have to do their part, and if you dont do your part, then your not contributing to the community. And yes, searching is contribution. You are gorging yourself in PDA knoweldge and then could help someone else.
However, if you feel that people here at XDA are here to help you becuase this is their job, then your wrong. I'm not saying you, or anyone else does feel this way, but my point is that XDA is not a service, its a community.
I've found the dutty thread to be useless now because of so many questions asking the same thing. There is an onslaught of many questions that were already answered and its hard to find the specific problem your having. I still LOOK, and I still search...and I find the answer.
Though I do agree, being a ***** never did anything for anyone. So the best anyone can do is point them in the right direction until they get it themselves.
If everyone post any question they want to ask without searching, we'll probably end up having 25k pages in every thread. The whole point of searching is to keep forums tidy, so that information can be found faster.
Have you ever tried to find some specific thingsin big DUMP??? (Not a rom dump)
Very True
I agree with the starter of the topic. So you say using search keeps the Forum tidy. I don't agree. The Forum is already full of huge topics and nobody has to have the patience to go through them. HOWEVER, I personally SEARCHED A LOT for some stuff and I usually FOUND what I was looking for. So I admit that it's ok to search! ::- ). But a bit more tolerance for those who don't have this time would be great.
Maybe I just bought a phone and I'm uber-enthusiastic about it and don't want to search 2 days for something. Common, a bit of understanding never killed anybody ::- ). And if there are a lot of topics about a certain problem, they'll show up faster in search, so it's ok. Common, a bit more text never killed a database.
This is a fair point and I would agree - generally speaking a policy of ignore it and move on is best.
However, I have seen instances of people who ought to know better blundering into a thread and asking a question to which they would get an answer if they could just be bothered to look a handful of posts further up.
Not all newcomers are sweet innocents and not all stupid questions are asked by newcomers.
My personal annoyance list is topped by those that ask a tough or poorly defined question and then start stamping their tiny feet if they don't get an answer back within seconds of posting - some people here seem to think this is a formal support forum for 'XDA products', (whatever those might be) and so start *****ing about bugs, lack of response, etc.
Did you ever stop to think that all the people with your point of view are the reason for the search function not being as productive as other sites? When someone doesn't search and just creates another redundant thread, they are directly responsible for polluting the search results.
As I have said before, I will no longer be bashing n00bs who fail to search before posting. Instead, I will transpose their question into Google, and reply back with a link to the search result they need to read. There is one exception to this; people who create 2 or more new threads (within 24 hours) asking the exact same question. That is just rude.
OK, The Mods, seniors and members that develop and discuss their ROMs on here have all gone to a lot of trouble( and time) to write the information required to teach us all how to build our own custom ROMs. They have spent hours and hours setting up the Kaiser Wiki with tutorials that are so simple they could teach a duck to tapdance! So could all who are thinking about building their own ROM please read first........when i say read, i mean read, i have read many posts that repost in half an hour say "read that and it didn't help" . In my experience its impossible to take in all the info needed in half an hour! Obviously if you don't find an answer after 2 weeks then consider asking someone, but 99.9% of answers are already here so it would be very rare you should need to ask. Most of the people here are here to discuss ROM development, not spoonfeed people who can't be bothered to read. This also includes the PM function of this site, just because you don't get the simplistic answer you were looking for in a thread, doesn't mean you can stalk by PM asking all the same questions over and over again.
If after you have read all the info available and took it in and still don't understand.....well maybe you're not capable of being a ROM chef, give up, go back to the Wiki, and download one of the amazing cooked ROMs already posted.
I think i speak for all the chefs on here with the above statement.
Apologies to the mods if this is in the wrong place, equally maybe this could make a good sticky and give all the real developers more time to develop rather than teach!
Nice words. Only thing is stuff like this has been said before, and the people who don't read the Stickies, Wiki's, How To's etc, don't read these threads either.
I made up most of my 1000+ posts explaing stuff I read from this forum to other members who didn't. Don't get me wrong I don't mind helping out with people who have read but are just confused, or have missed bits I have read. It's the people who plainly havn't bothered to read and just ask expecting and answer. Or the people who say I have a problem, tell me how to fix it.
To the noobs: You need to explain your problem so that we can understand, that way we can help you. i.e. I have done x and y, but then I get message m, so I tried z and I still get the message. That sort of thing makes life easy.
Oh well, we can but hope...
Dave
I downloaded the .7z file for JustHome rom for Herald thanks to IVAN!. My IPL is 4.10.0002 and SPL 4.10.0000, I have a microSD ship and ready for action. I just need the walkthrough for installing ROMs from scratch. How do I do the hardspl....I need complete guidance!
You need to search better.
there is a "giude to flashing" in one of these theads that is specific to the htc herald which is the name for you "wing" i thing you might find it under "wiki htc herald " you can probably google it. it is a step by step guide. hope that helps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358225 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358615 goodluck
I apologize now for the lack of clear answers, and I understand your frustration, even if you did search and read those pages. Sometimes for newbs they can be a bit difficult to understand, and they were for me too, so I'll tell you how in newb language and provide the tools necessary.
First things first, you need to download the folder im going to provide you. Save the zip to your desktop and extract it. Now the fun begins.
1. Drag and extract the .nbh file you downloaded from JustHome and place it inside the RUU folder located inside of the MyFirstRom folder.
2. Turn your phone to flight mode. You can do this in the Comm Manager found in your Connection Settings.
3. Next make sure your phone is connected to your computer and you have Activesync (Win XP) or Mobile Device Center (Vista or Windows 7) connected with a green light.
4. Execute the application Herald-USPL (located in the MyFirstRom folder).
5. Wait for it to verify, press Enter. Wait for it to load SPL, PDA screen will go white at about 70 percent. If it doesn't and it hangs on a tux logo with a little command prompt (on the phone, sometimes this happens.) don't worry and just reset and try again.
6.If everything is successful and the PDA screen is white, press Enter and it'll launch the RUU installer application on your computer.
7. Follow the instructions, Press the Update button when it asks you what ROM you are installing. It should show some version number. Press Next, and it'll start flashing. It will say it will take 10 minutes, it'll go faster than that. After it's finished, the PDA will automatically reset to the new RUU.
If you experience any problems, don't panic, Soft Reset your device by pushing the stylus into the small whole next to the volume slider. If the phone goes into an endless reset, don't panic... Hard reset your phone by pressing holding the two soft-keys (keys with lines located above the Windows key and Ok key) while pressing the sylus into the reset hole. Release the soft keys while still holding reset and then release the reset. It will come up with a screen telling you you are being set to factory settings, press the Send key. (Green phone key)
I know you asked about HardSPL, but for the purpose of this ROM and some others, you won't need it. I prefer USPL because there's not a very easy way to brick your phone. If something goes terribly wrong, generally you can just Hard Reset and its all better.
Good luck, and I'm not liable for any damage to your phones OS or hardware, blah...
that was cool of you to take the time and post all that.wish i had that all explained to me when i started messin around.
bishoprnpb said:
that was cool of you to take the time and post all that.wish i had that all explained to me when i started messin around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I just recently got started after buying a Wing a few weeks ago on E-Bay. I understand the frustration, and frankly I feel bad for new people... A lot of these threads are so out-dated now, and no one seems to want to help new people any more, with the exception of maybe Ivan who is working on a whole cooking guide. And the past instructions can get a little fuzzy. Even on the second post of Ivan's instructions it says to ask questions if you don't understand, but it seems like questions are just getting answered with more and more links to sites like Google.
Thank for step by step
Now I flash my dopodC800 to ITsPapablack but every time I reset, it's not show SPL
today I will flash again to "gulllums Touchflo2D II"
can I use same step?
What's the fastest way to get specific help at User forums?
apreichner said:
so I'll tell you how in newb language and provide the tools necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right that many MANY threads are now obsolete, or have conflicting language & directions. Can I suggest that you edit your post to give it an explanatory title, so that it can be indexed by the search engine of this site, as well as by google? That way others may find your very post, which helps them bridge the gaps.
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
Please Mr. or Ms. New User, would you start here by simply first reading our Table of Contents -- or list of Forums -- before you begin to post? Thank you.
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Click to collapse
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
pungcheer said:
Thank for step by step
Now I flash my dopodC800 to ITsPapablack but every time I reset, it's not show SPL
today I will flash again to "gulllums Touchflo2D II"
can I use same step?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
quicksite said:
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
Quote:
Please Mr. or Ms. New User, would you start here by simply first reading our Table of Contents -- or list of Forums -- before you begin to post? Thank you.
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... I'll explain my point of view in the other forum, seeing as how this is the ROM development forum, and post a link.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3836096#post3836096
I was able to figure it out on my own with no posts, just searching. I've never had a problem.
quicksite said:
You are right that many MANY threads are now obsolete, or have conflicting language & directions. Can I suggest that you edit your post to give it an explanatory title, so that it can be indexed by the search engine of this site, as well as by google? That way others may find your very post, which helps them bridge the gaps.
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.Yes.Yes. Every noob situation is different as many already have the concept of a "list" and its purpose. The problem I see everyday is that new people never read the rules. I know I didnt, but I already understood why there iwas even a list. Its too be read and understood that noob questions do not go where it says "This forum is only meant fro ROM issues and ROM development." Its why the admins get fed up. Its really the responsibility of the poster to be informed about where to post on a forum. Even is there is 3 million forums (yes i know its overwhelming at first) there is only 4 subcategories. Read the rules. If you get lost and dont know what to do. Read the rules. Even if you dont get your answer, at least you'll learn to appreciate when someone posts in the correct place. Now im getting worked up on this. To conclude. The poster was very lucky to receive such nice answers to his question.
raptoro07 said:
I was able to figure it out on my own with no posts, just searching. I've never had a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only more people had that quality in them the world would be a better place.
My point is not to say the information isn't here already, my point is to say the information isn't as clear, as updated, and easily accessible as it could be. If I had my way, you would have a forum specially devoted to Tutorials. And on that tutorial forum you would have a giant sticky that says, "The Complete Idiots Guide on Flashing" (emphasis on complete). It wouldn't give you links to like 20 different libraries of dictionary definitions, wikis, and other guides. It would be like a picture book with easily seen pictures of each step. Who knows we could make it rhyme and it would be like Dr.Seus for nerds. I think after my Complete Cab Collection is finished, I'll work on such a page.
The point is: Herald and Herald Mobile 6 are a little redundant. Why do we need both? What is the point? I read the rules and the forum FAQ and all of that, and I'm not finding an answer to the usefulness of having both. And unfortunately, where are the mods during all of this? From what Ivan says, they aren't taking applications for Mods, but they probably should be. Just look at how long this post is able to get in this thread and you'll see my point.
True eventually you find an answer after reading through 8-10 posts, 2-4 wikis, 3-6 google searches, and 8-10 panic attacks after doing a bad rom attempt. Does it really have to be this way?
apreichner said:
My point is not to say the information isn't here already, my point is to say the information isn't as clear, as updated, and easily accessible as it could be. If I had my way, you would have a forum specially devoted to Tutorials. And on that tutorial forum you would have a giant sticky that says, "The Complete Idiots Guide on Flashing" (emphasis on complete). It wouldn't give you links to like 20 different libraries of dictionary definitions, wikis, and other guides. It would be like a picture book with easily seen pictures of each step. Who knows we could make it rhyme and it would be like Dr.Seus for nerds. I think after my Complete Cab Collection is finished, I'll work on such a page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been trying to get stuff like this set up. I'm trying to become a mod for partially this reason.
I HAVE posted a complete guide on flashing, but it needs a little updating. The thing about all this is that it's not a business. A bunch of people (like me) read and read and read and gather data from one place and another and put it together to make something useful for our phones. The problem is, being that it's a forum, no one really wants to have to sit there and dedicate hour after hour to just writing out tutorials, when people like me, the ones who have that knowledge already, spend hours and hours and hours making ROMs for everybody else.
rstweb said:
The point is: Herald and Herald Mobile 6 are a little redundant. Why do we need both? What is the point? I read the rules and the forum FAQ and all of that, and I'm not finding an answer to the usefulness of having both. And unfortunately, where are the mods during all of this? From what Ivan says, they aren't taking applications for Mods, but they probably should be. Just look at how long this post is able to get in this thread and you'll see my point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trust me, I've been pushing the whole redundancy issue for a while already. They do have a lot of mods, but none of them really work the Herald forum due to the fact that it's an old device with little to no traffic as compared to the other phone forums.
rstweb said:
True eventually you find an answer after reading through 8-10 posts, 2-4 wikis, 3-6 google searches, and 8-10 panic attacks after doing a bad rom attempt. Does it really have to be this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There IS one great positive aspect to doing it this way. On the way to learn what you THINK you need to learn, you end up learning what you TRULY need to learn accidently. We live in a society where everyone wants the answers right away and to not understand the context. Sometimes, the context is more important than the answers. Searching in this manner forces the context on you before you reach an answer.
ivanmmj said:
I've been trying to get stuff like this set up. I'm trying to become a mod for partially this reason.
I HAVE posted a complete guide on flashing, but it needs a little updating. The thing about all this is that it's not a business. A bunch of people (like me) read and read and read and gather data from one place and another and put it together to make something useful for our phones. The problem is, being that it's a forum, no one really wants to have to sit there and dedicate hour after hour to just writing out tutorials, when people like me, the ones who have that knowledge already, spend hours and hours and hours making ROMs for everybody else.
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I agree, not everyone can do everything at once. You have done a pretty good job, but you have a life, and a wife, so you can't keep up all of that plus doing your ROMs, plus writing out Tutorial after Tutorial. Maybe that's why you have unmarried people like me here who can complain and write up cab collections at the same time . If only we had a female moderator, this forum would be spotless, and she could yell at dumb people at the same time.
ivanmmj said:
Trust me, I've been pushing the whole redundancy issue for a while already. They do have a lot of mods, but none of them really work the Herald forum due to the fact that it's an old device with little to no traffic as compared to the other phone forums.
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I guess that's true, maybe it kind of disappoints me seeing as how I didn't get the Wing too long ago. And what does it hurt adding someone as a Mod... It's not like they are paying you.
ivanmmj said:
There IS one great positive aspect to doing it this way. On the way to learn what you THINK you need to learn, you end up learning what you TRULY need to learn accidently. We live in a society where everyone wants the answers right away and to not understand the context. Sometimes, the context is more important than the answers. Searching in this manner forces the context on you before you reach an answer.
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I agree that searching forces the context. However, I also think it's possible to put the context together for people. You're right, society is content on finding what we want right away. However, what about the ordinary people who don't really want to dive so in depth into a pool of XDA Development. Should they not be given the right to flash a ROM to a phone, seeing as how it's pretty simple to do now. For people like me... Computer Science Majors... I love learning this context and don't mind the research, but not everyone is exactly like me or you.
apreichner said:
However, what about the ordinary people who don't really want to dive so in depth into a pool of XDA Development. Should they not be given the right to flash a ROM to a phone, seeing as how it's pretty simple to do now. For people like me... Computer Science Majors... I love learning this context and don't mind the research, but not everyone is exactly like me or you.
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I think everybody should know what he is doing before he´s trying to do it.
They have to know at least about the things that can happen.
In the last weaks dozens of users had bricked their phone´s by not reading, if there wasn´t the goldcard.
I don´t like the idea of people that come to this Forum, get everything served on silver plates and leave again without giving something back to the community.
I developed nothing by myself but at least i read the threads, try to help others when i can with answers or testing their work and give feedback.
There are countless threads and user´s that proof my point.
Zaknafein21 said:
I think everybody should know what he is doing before he´s trying to do it.
They have to know at least about the things that can happen.
In the last weaks dozens of users had bricked their phone´s by not reading, if there wasn´t the goldcard.
I don´t like the idea of people that come to this Forum, get everything served on silver plates and leave again without giving something back to the community.
I developed nothing by myself but at least i read the threads, try to help others when i can with answers or testing their work and give feedback.
There are countless threads and user´s that proof my point.
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Of course they should know what could happen. But it doesn't take a whole lot of threads to tell you the risks, it takes a paragraph, maybe two at most. Just read the back of a bottle of sleeping pills. There are more risks to taking those and yet they fit them in the space the size of an inch, maybe an inch and a half. And if things were organized, it would be like, "If these happen, see this thread." and there's a thread full of problems and solutions. And at the bottom, "If you cannot find your problem, try Searching. Recommend using Google XDA search, because normal XDA search sucks balls."
I have seen the posts of people who have bricked their phone. Although, in my opinion, this can be as much to blame as them not reading, as the material is not easily presented. It also doesn't help that organization has ceased to exist...
My idea was not to hand everything on a silver platter, either way, you have to read something or else you'll screw up... My idea is to take the information already available, revise it, update it, and make it easily available. Rather than hidden on page 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm thinking since there are no mods available to come Sticky some of these really important things on pages 2, 3, 4, and 5... I might just bump them all.
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks. It reminds me of some guy calling to get support and all he is is directed to an automated service, sometimes you just WANT to hear a human voice for once in your miserable support seeking life...
apreichner said:
Of course they should know what could happen. But it doesn't take a whole lot of threads to tell you the risks, it takes a paragraph, maybe two at most. Just read the back of a bottle of sleeping pills. There are more risks to taking those and yet they fit them in the space the size of an inch, maybe an inch and a half. And if things were organized, it would be like, "If these happen, see this thread." and there's a thread full of problems and solutions. And at the bottom, "If you cannot find your problem, try Searching. Recommend using Google XDA search, because normal XDA search sucks balls."
I have seen the posts of people who have bricked their phone. Although, in my opinion, this can be as much to blame as them not reading, as the material is not easily presented. It also doesn't help that organization has ceased to exist...
My idea was not to hand everything on a silver platter, either way, you have to read something or else you'll screw up... My idea is to take the information already available, revise it, update it, and make it easily available. Rather than hidden on page 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm thinking since there are no mods available to come Sticky some of these really important things on pages 2, 3, 4, and 5... I might just bump them all.
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks. It reminds me of some guy calling to get support and all he is is directed to an automated service, sometimes you just WANT to hear a human voice for once in your miserable support seeking life...
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The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
ivanmmj said:
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
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My point exactly. Thank you Ivan.
apreichner said:
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks.
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That´s not what i was trying to say!
I try to help and would help to start the walkthrough threads but i don´t think this would help. The Stickys allready there aren´t bad especially this sticky
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=369397
I am not frustrated about the done work, i am frustrated about lazy users.
If my point wasn´t clear i think i have to blame my limitited english.
ivanmmj said:
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
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Agree.