Database Info

XDA Exec/WM6 Help for a N00b

Hi there.
I know there's probably nothing irritates you guys more than a n00b asking for assistance in doing something techie, but have pity...
I'm not a total tech divvy, I have no problem with pooters, but I've never had the reason to dissect code, or get up with the workings of the PDA or mobile phone, so I'm really clueless, here.
I have some general wonderments...
as well as requests for advice and assistance.
I have an O2 XDA Exec which I love, and haven't got the money to upgrade at present, and so, would like to milk as much performance out of it as possible.
I work in a business where contacts, bookings and diary dates are essential, as is communication via SMS and telephone (and one day, if it becomes cheap enough, push email would be nice). This device is running 24/7, keeping me informed, running my business, and its wonderful, such a problem when it 'goes down.' It has been running nearly flawlessly for almost 18 months, and much as I'd love to upgrade to a TyTn 2 when my contract expires, I also want to leave options open for a 3G and application-friendly iPhone, or indeed something better from HTC.
I have a few niggles to address.
First, the alarms, of which there are many required, are completely fubar unless I have AlarmToday installed. Fair enough. I understand that this is a 'Windows Mobile' issue, and I can live with using a small app to fix the problem. Are there any better solutions. I also have two 'tweaks' type apps installed, which claim to fix the issues that cause non-sounding alarms on WM PDA phones.
Second, I need a good one-glance Today screen, professional looking, and a comprehensive listing of diary dates and (possibly) text messages etc. But all the ones I seem to use appear to slow my XDA to a crawl.
Third, I need to use a good PIM, and chose Pocket Informant 2007, which is a great app, but now I'm struggling because my XDA seems to be grinding to a halt.
I noticed that when the battery hits about 57% it starts to crap out, freeze up, stop running apps etc. I replaced the battery with a brand new one, and it still does it. Also, the system is sometimes so slow, or the phone rings and the side buttons (pickup and hang up) don't do a damn thing...
A friend recommended that many bugs and issues of speed were resolved in WM6, so, of course, I'm looking for a good WM6 build to replace my standard (latest) ROM and OS from O2 on the XDA exec... essentially I only need the base featureset that came as standard, as long as my apps will still work. I have standard memory in the exec and 512 meg SD card.
Can someone please be bold and recommend the virtues of two or three WM6 builds for utmost reliability and functionality bearing in mind what I've said about the use and needs of the phone, and perhaps lead me to the right place, and the right procedures. I'm thinking that if a PDA phone is anything like a pooter, it might need a backup to hard disk, then a good clear out and a reinstall to try to break the backlog of clogging or something, and any tips on doing this/better apps/faster today screens would be really, really appreciated... I need input on this, because the last thing I can afford to do is brick the XDA or kick its usefulness into touch for significant periods.
I appreciate someone's help!
Many thanks,
Steve

http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Universal_Cooked_ROMs

Hi, and thanks for that, but I had seen that page before, and though I'm sure it sounds completely n00b to you, all I see are some names, which mean nothing to me, and some numbers, which mean nothing to me, and some hints toward notes explaining what I do with pieces of software that I don't know anything about and don't understand.
I appreciate that you guys are techie enough to write this stuff, but surely the purpose of you writing it is to provide it as a solution for people who aren't techie enough to write it, otherwise Microsoft win out over independent developers by making a product that is user friendly and self explanatory, rather than impossibly intricate and mysterious...
Still holding out for a more explanatory response, if someone would be so kind.

TheTen said:
Hi, and thanks for that, but I had seen that page before, and though I'm sure it sounds completely n00b to you, all I see are some names, which mean nothing to me, and some numbers, which mean nothing to me, and some hints toward notes explaining what I do with pieces of software that I don't know anything about and don't understand.
I appreciate that you guys are techie enough to write this stuff, but surely the purpose of you writing it is to provide it as a solution for people who aren't techie enough to write it, otherwise Microsoft win out over independent developers by making a product that is user friendly and self explanatory, rather than impossibly intricate and mysterious...
Still holding out for a more explanatory response, if someone would be so kind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just download one of the roms, put your device into bootloader mode (backlight button + Power button + soft reset), and run the upgrade exe file from your comp. Simple!
Thats all you need to know for flashing your uni. When you're in bootloader mode, check the version number in the bottom. If its 1.xx you have a G3 based uni, else its a G4 uni (ver 2.xx). Some roms are compatible only with G3 based devices....so check what you're about to flash.
I'd recommend Ranju's latest rom (v6) as it is really stable and has all the right applications and configuration in it.
All the best to ya!
San

OK, thanks. Will give that a try.

Hello All. Newbie with some doubts

Hi
This is my first post around here but I have been lurking around for awhile. I'm currently waiting for my Kaiser to arrive (already in the mail) and reading everything I can about this wonderfull device.
Although I'm pretty inclined for technical stuff, I still have some doubts about certain things. I've read through the wiki and several posts here but I'm still not sure if I got everything right.
Radio: base module/program/loader/whatever that controls basic functions on a kaiser like call management, camera, connectivity, power management, etc. It seems that some radios work better for some people in specific areas than for others in different areas. Its not linear which radio works best (also rom dependant). Did I got this right?
Cooked Rom: basically a form of installing an OS and specific apps into rom memory. The advantage over having a stock rom with a bunch of installed apps is that the cooked rom already has those apps and they stay in case of a hard reset. On a stock rom with installed apps you would loose everything but the rom data. Another advantage of cooked roms is that the "chef" can optimize certain things in order to make things run faster and smoother. Is this right?
HardSpl: The bootloader that enables one to free the device in order to install cooked roms and other stuff. Usually the higher version the better but also depends on the cooked rom compatability. Hope I got this right.
Thx for any comment. Can't wait to have mine
Regards
Tony

what the hell are you doubting this was kinda a dumb thread. You basically have it right but all you did was make a statement, you really didn't ask much of a question you could have looked all that up.

Keep Reading take your time!
you need to security unlock your phone and Hard SPL it, before you do anything. do that or you will be stuck with a $600.00 paper weight. you are right about the radio and rom. You need to flash the rom that best meets what your needs are then flash a radio see how it performs, Battery , GPS lock, signal strength, call quality etc. Try one then another till you find the one that works best for you. My AT&T in Michigan running the same radio as you if your on AT&T in another part of the state may act differently. I may get fast GPS lock and strong clear signal and you on the same Rom and radio get a battery drain no GPS lock and you phone sounds like it's in a tunnel. So you experiment with different radios, read the post see what others say about Roms or radios when your ready to Jump in and enjoy. The main reason for me to flash my own rom and radio is I can configure this device the way I want it to be not how the OEM made it. Just remember before you do anything HARD SPL and security unlock your phone. then you will be safe or as safe as one can be, There is plenty of information in the WiKi on Hard SPL you sound like a Tech you should have no problem. Have fun and welcome.
ED...

joel2009 said:
what the hell are you doubting this was kinda a dumb thread. You basically have it right but all you did was make a statement, you really didn't ask much of a question you could have looked all that up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try not to be so harsh to someone that is asking for help, He states he is new, Give him a short window to get up to speed.

joel2009: Sorry man but I'm trying to get up to speed as I can. I had a big laugh after taking 3 hours to find out that "radio" is an interface rather than a FM radio feature.
I learn quick but never the less, this isn't as simple as 123. Try to remember how you felt when you first found out about this site. If you were to take up on helicopters and ask about fix vs collective pitch, I wouldn't bash you although it's a question that is made four thousand times per day by newbies. Gimme some slack
edbutler: thx for the tip. I've read about hardspl. I have 3.29 waiting right here. it will be the first thing I'll do. about removing the security code, are you refering to removing CID and security lock as refered in the Wiki (SuperCID and Security Unlock v0.2)?
For now I think I'll stay with the stock rom. I'll upgrade it to the lastest version (and play with the radio) and then I'll start from there. Here in Portugal, many people complain about the low time they get from the battery (stock roms and radios as provided by HTC give less than half a day sometimes) so probably the default radio that is shipped in this region isn't probably the best for the local carriers.
Thx again for the comment.

tchavei said:
joel2009: Sorry man but I'm trying to get up to speed as I can. I had a big laugh after taking 3 hours to find out that "radio" is an interface rather than a FM radio feature.
I learn quick but never the less, this isn't as simple as 123. Try to remember how you felt when you first found out about this site. If you were to take up on helicopters and ask about fix vs collective pitch, I wouldn't bash you although it's a question that is made four thousand times per day by newbies. Gimme some slack
edbutler: thx for the tip. I've read about hardspl. I have 3.29 waiting right here. it will be the first thing I'll do. about removing the security code, are you refering to removing CID and security lock as refered in the Wiki (SuperCID and Security Unlock v0.2)?
For now I think I'll stay with the stock rom. I'll upgrade it to the lastest version (and play with the radio) and then I'll start from there. Here in Portugal, many people complain about the low time they get from the battery (stock roms and radios as provided by HTC give less than half a day sometimes) so probably the default radio that is shipped in this region isn't probably the best for the local carriers.
Thx again for the comment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bump, its all in wiki....
btw I'am trying to create cab to copy dll to windows directory, seems the cab always fail... some how it cannot install,.. is there any parameter need to be added to the cab?

This was a surprisingly smart post. Most new people who ask questions and havent read any of the provided information...I will not flame this post like I had originally planned =)

The Ultimate Guide to Flashing a ROM (Windows Mobile)

Hey guys
Just thought i would share a tutorial i made about flashing ROMs
If this helps anyone in any way then i will be happy, i know there is already a few Flash guides out there but i wanted to have a go at my own.
Anyways if you find it helpful please leave a comment on the tutorial or if you have anything i could add leave a comment saying what it is.
http://96edwy.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/the-ultimate-guide-to-flashing-a-rom-windows-mobile/

Thanks a lot!
Very useful for newbies

If this comes out strong, I apologize in advanced, but you said that you want feedback on it, so here it is:
Title: The Ultimate Guide to Flashing a ROM (Windows Mobile)
This title suggest that you will provide a guide to flash many (if not all) WM devices, when in fact, you are only talking about the HD2 the whole time.
HSPL: You barely touch this subject and it should be up in bold red letters as without it, you cannot flash anything, at least not without semi-bricking your device in the process (fixable by flashing back to stock).
Build numbers: You may want to look at some stuff from Da_G, some other in PPCKitchen.org, and PPCGeeks as well before writing what you did in there. There are many more changes than just the UI from COM2 to COM3,4,5 and WMD. Also, the screenshot for 21911 that you used for the Start Menu, that is a screenshot of one of the first 6.5 leaks to ever hit the internet, and it is about 2 years old (you can tell because of the honeycomb pattern around the icons).
Lastly, but most important of all. Towards the beginning of the guide, you make it apparent that you will be talking about flashing your HD2, which is fine. What you are not touching in here, and will fully brick people's device if not done properly, is to tell the difference between European version of the Leo (512 MB) and the US version (1024 MB). Flashing a rom or a radio of one version onto the other will fully brick the device... no questions asked.
Again, I apologize if I came out a little strong, but you really have to correct your guide or you will end up making a lot of people brick a lot of devices.
One last note: make sure to give credit to the people that made this possible. Cotulla and DFT for the HSPL and NRG for the rom (as you refer to his rom in your guide) as well as many others who have worked hard to get us where we are at.

egzthunder1 said:
If this comes out strong, I apologize in advanced, but you said that you want feedback on it, so here it is:
Title: The Ultimate Guide to Flashing a ROM (Windows Mobile)
This title suggest that you will provide a guide to flash many (if not all) WM devices, when in fact, you are only talking about the HD2 the whole time.
HSPL: You barely touch this subject and it should be up in bold red letters as without it, you cannot flash anything, at least not without semi-bricking your device in the process (fixable by flashing back to stock).
Build numbers: You may want to look at some stuff from Da_G, some other in PPCKitchen.org, and PPCGeeks as well before writing what you did in there. There are many more changes than just the UI from COM2 to COM3,4,5 and WMD. Also, the screenshot for 21911 that you used for the Start Menu, that is a screenshot of one of the first 6.5 leaks to ever hit the internet, and it is about 2 years old (you can tell because of the honeycomb pattern around the icons).
Lastly, but most important of all. Towards the beginning of the guide, you make it apparent that you will be talking about flashing your HD2, which is fine. What you are not touching in here, and will fully brick people's device if not done properly, is to tell the difference between European version of the Leo (512 MB) and the US version (1024 MB). Flashing a rom or a radio of one version onto the other will fully brick the device... no questions asked.
Again, I apologize if I came out a little strong, but you really have to correct your guide or you will end up making a lot of people brick a lot of devices.
One last note: make sure to give credit to the people that made this possible. Cotulla and DFT for the HSPL and NRG for the rom (as you refer to his rom in your guide) as well as many others who have worked hard to get us where we are at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks a bunch mate, you didn't come across strong, i appreciate your help to be honest as i did ask if there was anything i needed to add.
i know that its only really for the HD2 but i assumed it was fairly similar to flash other devices using the RU utility? (obviously you have to have the right RU for your phone) and i named it the ultimate guide so it looks interesting to read.
i know that the 6.5.3 build has other new stuff and not just a small ui change but i was assuming that if your a newby to it all then the techy stuff should be left out cus the only noticable difference to a newb is really the UI change.
i will change everything you stated ASAP

96edwy said:
thanks a bunch mate, you didn't come across strong, i appreciate your help to be honest as i did ask if there was anything i needed to add.
i know that its only really for the HD2 but i assumed it was fairly similar to flash other devices using the RU utility? (obviously you have to have the right RU for your phone) and i named it the ultimate guide so it looks interesting to read.
i know that the 6.5.3 build has other new stuff and not just a small ui change but i was assuming that if your a newby to it all then the techy stuff should be left out cus the only noticable difference to a newb is really the UI change.
i will change everything you stated ASAP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Make sure you focus primarily on HSPL and on the different versions of the HD2 and the radios as well. These are the key and most important areas in the flashing guide.
Not all devices require HSPL, and while running the RUU may seem standard, sometimes you need to do things before this step (for instance, in the Blue Angel, you have to put the device in bootloader prior to flashing.)
Cheers

egzthunder1 said:
Make sure you focus primarily on HSPL and on the different versions of the HD2 and the radios as well. These are the key and most important areas in the flashing guide.
Not all devices require HSPL, and while running the RUU may seem standard, sometimes you need to do things before this step (for instance, in the Blue Angel, you have to put the device in bootloader prior to flashing.)
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have added warnings about radio and hd2 versions. also added wiki links to build versions and explained more about differences between 6.5 and 6.5.x
added section at the top stating this guide is based on the hd2 and while it may work the same on other devices flashing processes can vary
again thank you for your feedback

ATTENTION: New G-Tablet Modders

I just read a post by roebeet (well known dev who put together the TNT Lite ROMS) and something he said made enough sense to me that I thing everyone needs to hear it.
If you are going to flash and try everything you find on this site -- you run a real risk have having problems. Everything you flash adds, changes and deletes stuff from your tablet and some of that gets carried over from ROM to ROM to program.
Just because you partition/erase/delete/overwrite does not mean your tablet content is destroyed. There are a bunch of partitions on your tablet (12?) and some are preserved and some are modified depending on what you do.
So am I saying "Don't mod you G-Tablet" or "Don't try out new stuff." NO.
1. Make real sure you know what you are doing. Too many people just rush ahead and wind up with real problems.
2. Read directions and read all the posts about others who have done the same thing you want to do.
3. When you are making changes, do them one at a time and make sure it's working right before moving on. When you change a bunch of stuff it's hard to tell what the problem/problems is and where it came from.
4. IMHO, too many people see the modding as a game and then they get mad at the dev or people who are trying to help them -- when all the time it was their own fault!
I think it would even be a good idea if someone knowledgeable could help us see if we could put together a flash which would actually delete/erase what's on a
troubled tab so it could be rebuilt. Sorry, but I don't talk enough Android yet to do that.
Think about it.
Rev

butchconner said:
I think it would even be a good idea if someone knowledgeable could help us see if we could put together a flash which would actually delete/erase what's on a
troubled tab so it could be rebuilt.
Rev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would recommend running a format zip before any reloading on a Gtab whether a new rom or the stock. Just like all the computers I work on for people the first thing I do is run a program to erase the hard drive to make sure nothing old can interfere with a new reload of the operating system
Calkulin has this format zip from his rom thread or you could use the other one from here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=974422
Start fresh don't just overwrite!
ale

Calkulin's Format all is awesome
Exactly. Calkulin's format all is a life saver. It is much cleaner and faster way than to do three or four steps to clean stuff out (Invariably one forgets one of the steps which causes all the problems).

I have used this file to solve many problems going from rom to rom... Good stuff.

[Q] Should I step back and use the format zip?
notsob2002 said:
I would recommend running a format zip before any reloading on a Gtab whether a new rom or the stock. Just like all the computers I work on for people the first thing I do is run a program to erase the hard drive to make sure nothing old can interfere with a new reload of the operating system
Calkulin has this format zip from his rom thread or you could use the other one from here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=974422
Start fresh don't just overwrite!
ale
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two days ago I reset my gtab to stock. I have the 3389 zip saved and installed that using clockwork. I also used clockwork and did the data wipe/factory reset right before actually applying the rom.
Loading the stock VS rom removes clockwork and after reboot it pulled the OTA update and currently running the 3588 version.
I did this in anticipation of the upcoming VS update. The tablet seems to be running fine and as I said it's able to find and apply OTA updates.
Would you still recommend running this format zip, and then re-apply the 3389 I have saved?
Thanks,
Neudle
** Would like to point out there is a comment in the referenced post concerning using this format zip..."So this is a "detox" program for our gtablet that we can choose to run prior to NVflash process. And this process should not be done unless absolutely necessary, right?" "Yes, exactly..."

Neudle,
If you were at 3389 and did 3588 via OTA, I would try my recovery. If it does not
come up with your old CWM, then it should be stock recovery and you should be
good to go.
If needed, you always have the option of manually loading recovery and the 3588 update.zip into /sdcard and flashing stock again.
Rev

butchconner said:
Neudle,
If you were at 3389 and did 3588 via OTA, I would try my recovery. If it does not
come up with your old CWM, then it should be stock recovery and you should be
good to go.
If needed, you always have the option of manually loading recovery and the 3588 update.zip into /sdcard and flashing stock again.
Rev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the response.
Actually I think my tablet is fine. Unless I'm really confused (which is certainly possible) 3389 was the update from late december/early january. The 3588 is the update that came up in like febuary. Isn't 3588 the most recent?
This isn't the first time I've reloaded the stock rom and it seems it always over-writes/removes the clockworkmod.
I was simply more curious if you folks do feel it's always best to use the format.zip when swapping roms?
As I said, I'm simply prepping and anticipating the upcoming update from Viewsonic and not worried about clockworkmod for the time being. From what I've seen the update includes a recovery that looks similar.
Thanks again,
Neudle

I think the OP makes an excellent point for all us weekend tinkerers. The G-Tab is my first experience with an android device and although I have experience with rooting and flashing roms and kernals on another platform (WEBOS on my Palm pre), I have spent my first few weeks with this device just reading as much as I can on these forums before trying anything myself.
I was fortunate enough to get a great deal on this tab second hand from somebody who had already flashed it with Vegantab ( I believe 5.1.1). As it stands, it pretty much does everything I need it to do and there is no reason to break what alreday works...... except that I am a weekend tinkerer...... and I am thinking that I would like to try Calkulin's rom.
At the moment, I am not sure that it represent's an upgrade over what I have and I may wait for something gingerbread or honeycomb based that people report to have a signifigant benefit over Vegan 5.1.1...although I am sure I will convince myself differently at some point.
I know that I have CWM installed and that I can use this to clear up caches and personal info before flashing another ROM. Does Calkulin's format erase this? If so, does it need to be re-installed before putting on a new ROM? I am reading posts about people flashing back to stock and receiving updates before flashing a new rom. This completely confuses me as I don't understand the benefit unless, as the OP seems to indicate, there are bits that are left over from the old ROM when a new one is flashed. Is this desirable?
Sorry if I am asking so many questions in this thread. I know that there are bits and pieces of info scattered among many threads but some of it seems contradictory and some I am sure is outdated.
Can someone either outline or point me in the right direction to a step by step that outlines the most current and least likely way to brick upgrade from Vegan to Calkulin's ROM?
Thanks

butchconner said:
2. Read directions and read all the posts about others who have done the same thing you want to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my problem. Where is the step by step, this is how you take a GTab you just bought, to ROM "XYZ" the correct way? There are lots of "how to"s scattered all over this forum, but no one sticky at the top that says "Here's a step by step". Right now, I'm reading through everything again, before I try and mod my tablet, and it's a mess. It would be nice is someone+moderator made a nice, straight forward LOCKED thread that is stuck, that explains it all. The FAQ isn't quite the information necessary (in my eyes).
I'm pretty technical (engineer by trade) and if it takes me a bit to figure out how to do something, the general n00b is going to screw something up.
Just my thoughts.

h3llphyre said:
Here's my problem. Where is the step by step, this is how you take a GTab you just bought, to ROM "XYZ" the correct way? There are lots of "how to"s scattered all over this forum, but no one sticky at the top that says "Here's a step by step". Right now, I'm reading through everything again, before I try and mod my tablet, and it's a mess. It would be nice is someone+moderator made a nice, straight forward LOCKED thread that is stuck, that explains it all. The FAQ isn't quite the information necessary (in my eyes).
I'm pretty technical (engineer by trade) and if it takes me a bit to figure out how to do something, the general n00b is going to screw something up.
Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't found that to be the case at all. In fact, I've seen nothing but repetitive reinforcement of proper procedures from every knowledgeable source. If the ROM Creator says use clockworkmod to install then wipe data... well do it. If he/she says use standard recovery... well... This isn't rocket science. I've installed and tested every ROM listed here with no failures by following the included instructions. I can't believe that is an anomaly.
If you want to be truly successful, learn what each of these tools (clockworkmod, nvflash, etc.) does and more importantly what they do not do. When you educate yourself to their proper use you won't be finding yourself using a hammer when you need a screwdriver.

hotfire!,
I think that's one of the points I hoped to make in this thread.
I appreciate the "format" tips -- but I have not used it and none of the folks whose opinion I watch for have put their stamp of approval on it -- so my opinion of it is still
in the making. I will use it only cautiously until I have confidence it is good.
But as you have said, we do have a hodgepodge of stuff here. People try to do
too much too fast -- and others suggest stuff that doesn't need to be done.
For example -- if somethings crashes on my G-Tablet, I go back to a basic CWM/ROM combo that I know is good so I have a solid place to start and then rebuild. Takes a little longer, but I think it save me a lot of anquish.
So like a lot of others, I just help where I can. But I do try to be conservative and consistent making suggestions the will not "snow" the new or offend those who think
they know what they are doing.
And to everyone I suggest the wrong thing, OOOOPs, and apologies. To those who
help me an give others good help -- thank you.
Rev

K J Rad said:
I haven't found that to be the case at all. In fact, I've seen nothing but repetitive reinforcement of proper procedures from every knowledgeable source. If the ROM Creator says use clockworkmod to install then wipe data... well do it. If he/she says use standard recovery... well... This isn't rocket science. I've installed and tested every ROM listed here with no failures by following the included instructions. I can't believe that is an anomaly.
If you want to be truly successful, learn what each of these tools (clockworkmod, nvflash, etc.) does and more importantly what they do not do. When you educate yourself to their proper use you won't be finding yourself using a hammer when you need a screwdriver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But therein lies the problem. There *is* a great thread on installing CWM and then ROMs using that. Step by step, it's fantastic. Installing a new kernel *is* found in some of the threads, but I wish that great thread with the CWM and ROM installation also had Kernel info.
Regardless of if you know how these tools work, it's nice to have a step by step to follow, just to ensure you're doing everything in order. I do it at work when I'm working with a new system (I write it myself) just to make sure I follow the same procedure every time. It helps when problems arise.
I'm just saying, for the n00bs, it would be nice to have a "one size fits all" thread. I was able to successfully install CWM and Vegan without a single problem, as I've been reading this forum for MONTHS, but I'm not a normal person (nor are most of the regulars here).
One thing I try to do, is demystify technology. Make it easy, explain it in simple ways while still being effective as describing what is going on, and then you don't get "stupid questions" later. Essentially, trying to run in the opposite direction that most Linux forums tend to be. Threads buried 2 years back have the info, everyone screams at the n00bs saying "USE THE SEARCH".
Love this forum, the people here are REALLY helpful, but there is room for improvement. That's all I'm saying.

h3llphyre said:
But therein lies the problem. There *is* a great thread on installing CWM and then ROMs using that. Step by step, it's fantastic. Installing a new kernel *is* found in some of the threads, but I wish that great thread with the CWM and ROM installation also had Kernel info.
Regardless of if you know how these tools work, it's nice to have a step by step to follow, just to ensure you're doing everything in order. I do it at work when I'm working with a new system (I write it myself) just to make sure I follow the same procedure every time. It helps when problems arise.
I'm just saying, for the n00bs, it would be nice to have a "one size fits all" thread. I was able to successfully install CWM and Vegan without a single problem, as I've been reading this forum for MONTHS, but I'm not a normal person (nor are most of the regulars here).
One thing I try to do, is demystify technology. Make it easy, explain it in simple ways while still being effective as describing what is going on, and then you don't get "stupid questions" later. Essentially, trying to run in the opposite direction that most Linux forums tend to be. Threads buried 2 years back have the info, everyone screams at the n00bs saying "USE THE SEARCH".
Love this forum, the people here are REALLY helpful, but there is room for improvement. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer: Great idea! When will you have it ready? ;-)
Long answer...
I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that there isn't a one size fits all answer to this "problem" (certainly not since the addition of TwoTapsX). The step by step instructions for installing ROMs, kernels, other hacks, etc. exist in the threads that contain the product (and most of those are stickied) because they aren't always identical. One "Superpost" meant to encompass all of those instructions would grow to be much too large and include far too many logical branches to be effective when you take into account the individual caveats for each. However, the methods for installing many of the products is similar in most cases even if the tools are not identical. Understanding which tool to use and how it works is the key to a successful experience.
For example are the recent cases of problems with TwoTapsX (formerly TnTLite 5.0.x). The instructions in the thread clearly stated that the users should start from a clean Viewsonic ROM without CWM (very different from other ROMs). It even stated an nvflash might be necessary if you had any problems with the install (also not usually necessary with other ROMs). Still, the overwhelming majority of users that had problems had failed to follow the instructions correctly and were unprepared to do an nvflash. These were generally not people that were new to the process, either. In cases where they were, a simple search for the error message they were getting or the condition they were experiencing turned up an answer within the first two or threes responses and virtually all of them were addressed in the original instruction thread or another recent thread with a similar title.
Another example, I still see threads daily about someone recently installing VEGAnTab 5.11 and all of a sudden their media disappears from their sdcard. This is a well known and very well documented problem with a long used successful work around. It isn't a case where their particular installation went awry, it's a known issue with the ROM. How many of those issues would need to be addressed in the "Superpost" in order to be effective and yet not be cumbersome?
To complicate things further, we now have indications that the next official release may change recovery to be incompatible with previous methods. It's possible we'll see further forking of these processes based on the developers preference of recovery which would reinforce the need to customize instructions for a particular product.
Room for improvement? Sure. I just think education is better than hand holding. I always encouraged my engineers to learn more and develop their own processes because they might actually be better, cheaper, more efficient, than whatever we currently had. I understood that MY answer might not always be the best one and I preferred to empower my associates.
All that being said... I'm all for anything that improves the community and more importantly helps its members. If you feel that it would be helpful then feel free to put something together or team with a few others to produce a document to address the issues you've identified. I'll be more than happy to link people to it if it fills a need for them just as I have to others in previous threads ;-)

Modding
You know normally I just read and lurk around here, but I can't keep my mouth shut any longer.
**WARNING** Not that I expect anyone to notice because apparently half of you can't read or don't comprehend what you do read, but anything past this point is probably not contributing to the conversation in a constructive way and should be considered as me ranting.
I have had my tab since December and have flashed every single Rom found on this forum at one time or another and the problems I see people have just amaze me. It's amazing because 9 out of 10 times it's because they didn't bother to read/comprehend the darn instructions or they are to lazy to search/read/comprehend on how to fix it or start over.
I am by no means a rocket scientist/programmer/developer/modder myself but I can read something 3-4 times first to make sure I comprehend before I go off deliberately voiding the warranty on a $400 device. And if I break it? Guess What?? There are instructions for that to if people would bother to look. Granted the information can be scattered around but if you can't be bothered to search/read then you should probably not be using a android device.
Last thing and I'll shut up. The entitlement I see coming from alot of people really makes my blood boil. You are an early adopter of bleeding edge technology, there are going to be problems and alot of them! If you didn't do research on the tab before you bought it you have no right to complain. The devs are not paid except by an occasional donation. They do this on their own time with their own equipment for the community. THEY DO NOT OWE YOU A THING, AND YOU SHOULD WORSHIP THEM SINCE WE ALL GET TO BENEFIT FROM THEIR HARD WORK!!!

Be Contented....
After tried two ROMs (TnT and NI) and finally sticked to NI, am well contented and satisfied. I think being contented may less your problem...

K J Rad said:
Short answer: Great idea! When will you have it ready? ;-)
<Plus lots of other stuff you said>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you can see from my post count, I'm historically a lurker. I've literally read every single thread in the GTab section since December. The problem for me, mostly came down to once I bought the device (I research stuff to death before I pull the trigger) and was ready to try a new ROM, it was information overload. There *is* a good thread about ROMs and CWM as I said, so I followed that, after reading it 6 times to ensure there were no gotchas.
I want to try out Pershoot's kernel, but I don't feel like I've read the procedure enough times to feel confident I'll be able to do it without having to fix something I broke. So, I'll read it a few dozen times, research the tools used, and finally get to it.
End of the day, I'll probably ask the person who did the ROM thread if they wouldn't mind added text that I've put together for the Kernels (as a supplement to what he did). I do want to give back to the community.
Also, you'll hopefully be seeing some hardware mods coming soon from me, fully documented. My true love is hardware, so I'll leave the ROMs and Kernels to the software guys, and focus on improvements on the physical side of things.
Thanks for keeping the conversation friendly. Always great to hear other people's opinions on matters.

Hardware mods would be VERY cool. Just remember to put something in the thread about how to talk your wife into letting you replace the smoldering mess on the kitchen table so I'll be covered... ;-)

h3llphyre said:
Also, you'll hopefully be seeing some hardware mods coming soon from me, fully documented. My true love is hardware, so I'll leave the ROMs and Kernels to the software guys, and focus on improvements on the physical side of things.
Thanks for keeping the conversation friendly. Always great to hear other people's opinions on matters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I speak for everyone here when I say "Bring them on!"

2 cents to add
I have worked in various areas of IT for over 30 years. Unfortunately android has not been one of them but the basic ideas are always the same. As one reader noted (with a little bit of steam coming from his ears) no one owes you anything here. You aren't paying and you're pretty lucky to have so many talented people making their efforts available to you. I, for one, am very appreciative. I do see the point however about documentation. I have been slowly (and painfully) coming up to speed on the various facets of this g-tab experience. What I find most frustrating is not the lack of directions (there are plenty if you look) or even responses (Clemsyn responded to my request for kernel updating info) but the lack of basic information. I recognize a linux type structure when I snoop around the file system. What is the relation of the ROMS to that? What exactly does clockwork do and where does it live? When you "clear caches" what exactly are you clearing? etc. I'm not expecting answers to these questions here but I think that is the problem a lot of us "caught in the middle guys" have. Sure, we can follow directions and usually everything works just the way it is supposed to but we don't know WHY. If you just blindly follow directions that makes you a "user" not an "admin" and who wants to be a user???? ha-ha What I really want to know is how/where do the more experienced people here (including devs) get their base information to know how to tinker with kernels, ROMS, etc? Where is the G-Tab Development for Dummies book hiding????

enigmas 0456,
You will find that lack of documentation is the hallmark of Android -- not just
here but everywhere. Probably more info here than most places.
Rev

Worth Rooting?

I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Virtuous is what you like then I'd say yes, go for it and root. The Virtuous ROM might be in beta here in the MT4GS forums but it was smokin' fast and stable enough when I used it. I'm sure an official release is just around the corner anyway. good luck and welcome to the MT4GS family!!

siani_8 said:
If Virtuous is what you like then I'd say yes, go for it and root. The Virtuous ROM might be in beta here in the MT4GS forums but it was smokin' fast and stable enough when I used it. I'm sure an official release is just around the corner anyway. good luck and welcome to the MT4GS family!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback and welcome, good enough reason for me. One thing I do like a lot on stock is the camera app, is that included in the beta or is there a flashable mod?

micahman said:
Thanks for the feedback and welcome, good enough reason for me. One thing I do like a lot on stock is the camera app, is that included in the beta or is there a flashable mod?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes sir, the Doubleshot camera app is included.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root it. Then you can:
Enhance your gps ability because of the generic gps file that's coded very poorly (in fact wrongly ... T-Mo doesn't maintain a good SUPL server, and if you're not on the T-Mo network your AGPS isn't working in stock configuration...well, maybe a little, but not anything worth mentioning. )
Flash a better security update to fix the big-brotheresque HTC spy mode (htcloggers.apk). HTC released an update to patch their security hole, but they are still monitoring everything you do with the device. Flash Undeadk9's security patch to just cut them off at the knees instead, or uninstall htcloggers.apk ( and other file I can't remember at the moment )
Change your hardware key files and re-map some buttons to be more useful.
Flash custom ROMs, as you're aware...
Play with the upcoming kernel files from myself and others...( give us time to make it stable )
...and so much more!
Generally do the things with the device that you've paid for that you should be able to do. Why spend all this money on something, and only use like 60% or less of what it can do?
If you're here and posting, then you should probably just go ahead and root it. It won't be long after you've been poking around in here reading through all the things we have been/are doing with the device before you'll go for it.
Check the sticky at the top of the general section to get a good handle on where to go first and what to read through. Take the time to read through the threads ( I know they are long ) - you'll see what all the problems were that people encountered, and how they were solved. Even if you don't run into the problems, at least you'll learn a whole lot and understand your device much, much more intimately.
...and if you get stuck, we're here to help. Many of us have been through this whole process countless times before, and are willing to lend a hand - just don't post random questions in the dev section and everything will be good.
Welcome to our little corner of the XDA universe - you'll love this device!

Blue6IX said:
Root it. Then you can:
Enhance your gps ability because of the generic gps file that's coded very poorly (in fact wrongly ... T-Mo doesn't maintain a good SUPL server, and if you're not on the T-Mo network your AGPS isn't working in stock configuration...well, maybe a little, but not anything worth mentioning. )
Flash a better security update to fix the big-brotheresque HTC spy mode (htcloggers.apk). HTC released an update to patch their security hole, but they are still monitoring everything you do with the device. Flash Undeadk9's security patch to just cut them off at the knees instead, or uninstall htcloggers.apk ( and other file I can't remember at the moment )
Change your hardware key files and re-map some buttons to be more useful.
Flash custom ROMs, as you're aware...
Play with the upcoming kernel files from myself and others...( give us time to make it stable )
...and so much more!
Generally do the things with the device that you've paid for that you should be able to do. Why spend all this money on something, and only use like 60% or less of what it can do?
If you're here and posting, then you should probably just go ahead and root it. It won't be long after you've been poking around in here reading through all the things we have been/are doing with the device before you'll go for it.
Check the sticky at the top of the general section to get a good handle on where to go first and what to read through. Take the time to read through the threads ( I know they are long ) - you'll see what all the problems were that people encountered, and how they were solved. Even if you don't run into the problems, at least you'll learn a whole lot and understand your device much, much more intimately.
...and if you get stuck, we're here to help. Many of us have been through this whole process countless times before, and are willing to lend a hand - just don't post random questions in the dev section and everything will be good.
Welcome to our little corner of the XDA universe - you'll love this device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, thank you for all the info, I am very grateful. I've noticed there are a few threads detailing how to root but can you tell me which one would be the best and most reliable? Thanks again for all the info, especially about that HTC spy stuff, I had no idea.

micahman said:
Wow, thank you for all the info, I am very grateful. I've noticed there are a few threads detailing how to root but can you tell me which one would be the best and most reliable? Thanks again for all the info, especially about that HTC spy stuff, I had no idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used theunlockr.com to root it, worked like a charm and has a video walk throu.. which I'm a big fan of. Easier to follow. but the only difference is to flash modoco cwm not revolutionary.. so you can flash undeadK9's roms.. id suggest senseless.
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium

shady503403 said:
I used theunlockr.com to root it, worked like a charm and has a video walk throu.. which I'm a big fan of. Easier to follow. but the only difference is to flash modoco cwm not revolutionary.. so you can flash undeadK9's roms.. id suggest senseless.
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man! Got it rooted and running senseless! So far so good!

Not to contradict Shady's advice, especially since it seems like it worked for you, but i've previously and still do recommend against going to a third party web resource outside of XDA to root the device.
The reason being is that a lot of us did everything from the information available here, and we are familiar with the processes and common problems people run into following the guides posted here in the forums.
If you post questions about problems or an issue you run into, you run the risk of slow or no support because of the unfamiliarity the majority of us here have with outside methods and resources.
I know off the top of my head I could post a helpful response to someone having a problem with a method described here. For an outside resource...i'd probably have to go look it up, maybe download somehing, and probably try the method before being able to help.
Then i'd have to dig into the code of whatever offering was in question, to ensure it wasn't doing anything I didn't want it to do before installing anything.
Ultimately, this is a lot more time and trouble then just digging into my memory or looking up a specific thread to verify something, and also probably provide a link to the specific post that addresses the problem.
I'm hitting overtime consistently on my night job, and still picking up hours at my day job, and honestly would rather commit the level of time necessary to troubleshoot an outside resource on something more personally productive, like digging deeper into kernel source or something.
Just a thought to keep in mind as you (and others in the future) wander around here. I promise that everything you need to root your phone and install custom ROMs and such is right here in the MT4GS forums. (excepting the need to go to the revolutionary resource for S-OFF).

Cm7 just dropped like a bomb
sent from my real Gs move in silence like lasagna

mbernusg said:
Cm7 just dropped like a bomb
sent from my real Gs move in silence like lasagna
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With a follow up by Official CWM Recovery. Today was a good day.
Coug76

Blue6IX said:
Not to contradict Shady's advice, especially since it seems like it worked for you, but i've previously and still do recommend against going to a third party web resource outside of XDA to root the device.
The reason being is that a lot of us did everything from the information available here, and we are familiar with the processes and common problems people run into following the guides posted here in the forums.
If you post questions about problems or an issue you run into, you run the risk of slow or no support because of the unfamiliarity the majority of us here have with outside methods and resources.
I know off the top of my head I could post a helpful response to someone having a problem with a method described here. For an outside resource...i'd probably have to go look it up, maybe download somehing, and probably try the method before being able to help.
Then i'd have to dig into the code of whatever offering was in question, to ensure it wasn't doing anything I didn't want it to do before installing anything.
Ultimately, this is a lot more time and trouble then just digging into my memory or looking up a specific thread to verify something, and also probably provide a link to the specific post that addresses the problem.
I'm hitting overtime consistently on my night job, and still picking up hours at my day job, and honestly would rather commit the level of time necessary to troubleshoot an outside resource on something more personally productive, like digging deeper into kernel source or something.
Just a thought to keep in mind as you (and others in the future) wander around here. I promise that everything you need to root your phone and install custom ROMs and such is right here in the MT4GS forums. (excepting the need to go to the revolutionary resource for S-OFF).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true. They use a lot of information found at xda to build their guides off of thou. And a video tutorial is always nice, for me anyways. but yeah.. don't expect support from theunlockr.com.
I always go their, sometimes their outdated or wrong. But still gave me a general idea and I was able to use multiple guides to give me the correct process..
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium

I'm glad I was able to find this thread, cause I've been wondering whether or not it would actually be worth it to root a MT4GS or not. And ya, I can agree that for the most part, rooting has more benefits than problems. And I always have gotten the same answer when asking that question about other devices, "Just root it; you'd have to be crazy not to; nothing compares to a rooted phone, etc...". So I gave in and rooted my MT3G 1.2 (w/ the headphone jack on top). After a while I noticed some definite problems: a few important features were gone, also it was impossible to update G. Maps (because of being rooted), and finally the worst scenario of all: not being possible to un-root the device. I must have tried 10 times, following the directions to the T and repeatedly getting the same failure error. I was finally able to find someone else with a similar problem who posted their solution. Tried, waited, failed. Fully bricked, I mean not even a flicker or a battery light would come on after that. Fortunately, I was able to lie to customer service and convince them to do a warranty exchange (Aeon-1, T-Mobile-0) so I got a replacement and haven't rooted since.
So I guess my point is, I'm actually scared to root my new MT4GS for the sake of potentially not being able to unroot it if need be. But, so far from what I've read it looks like it is reversable if I ever need to. I was likely considering using theunlockr.com's method due to clearly stated, and easily understood instructions. I wish I could say the same about the posts I've read @ XDA regarding rooting instructions.
-Which rooting methods are guaranteed to be un-rootable? That option is crucial, if I ever need to go back to stock or do a warranty exchange (for all those people who were gonna say "Why the hell would you ever consider unrooting?)
-So some people suggest ClockworkMod Recovery, others don't seem to care. I ask, is there any real difference between the two? And why?
-Also, which are the best/most stable roms you would suggest? Because I've done the trial and error thing before, comparing several different roms, and I never seemed to find anything worthwhile. (Also, I checked CyanogenMod's site and either I'm blind or they don't have a single rom for the MT4GS)
-I think you somewhat answer the question regarding features of the stock camera being available after rooting. But I need to know: After rooting, is the camera going to be the same as the stock one, including ALL available features (SweepShot, ClearShot HDR, Burst Shot, Macro, Night...)? And is that camera program featured within all rooted roms, or does it have to be installed seperately?
-And ditto that question in regards to G-Maps.
-And finally this may seem like a n00b question, but I've still never gotten a clear answer: How/When can a Nandroid Backup be performed? I know that it would be a safety precaution in case I ever f*cked up my device and needed to restore, but I've never been able to find clear, accurate, and relevant instructions on how to nandroid backup or even nandroid restore.
So I apologize for asking so many questions, especially since I imagine they seem redundant and novice. However, I have rooted phones before so I'm not a complete n00b; I'm just trying to be VERY thorough this time around, to avoid any potential for error. Thank you in advance for your time.
-Colton

@eon said:
I'm glad I was able to find this thread, cause I've been wondering whether or not it would actually be worth it to root a MT4GS or not. And ya, I can agree that for the most part, rooting has more benefits than problems. And I always have gotten the same answer when asking that question about other devices, "Just root it; you'd have to be crazy not to; nothing compares to a rooted phone, etc...". So I gave in and rooted my MT3G 1.2 (w/ the headphone jack on top). After a while I noticed some definite problems: a few important features were gone, also it was impossible to update G. Maps (because of being rooted), and finally the worst scenario of all: not being possible to un-root the device. I must have tried 10 times, following the directions to the T and repeatedly getting the same failure error. I was finally able to find someone else with a similar problem who posted their solution. Tried, waited, failed. Fully bricked, I mean not even a flicker or a battery light would come on after that. Fortunately, I was able to lie to customer service and convince them to do a warranty exchange (Aeon-1, T-Mobile-0) so I got a replacement and haven't rooted since.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear that didn't work out so well. I think you'll find that your MT4GS experience will be a lot better.
Check the link to my backup thread in my signature. Read through it, and feel free to ask any questions in that thread you may have. I or another will be happy to help you clear them up.
Link: Backups - After Rooting, before ROMing, take this step
@eon said:
So I guess my point is, I'm actually scared to root my new MT4GS for the sake of potentially not being able to unroot it if need be. But, so far from what I've read it looks like it is reversable if I ever need to. I was likely considering using theunlockr.com's method due to clearly stated, and easily understood instructions. I wish I could say the same about the posts I've read @ XDA regarding rooting instructions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, everything tends to happen first here, so trying to keep it all organized as things change and develop is difficult at times, much too convoluted at others.
Basically, you need to take your bootloader from S-ON to S-OFF. Do this with the Revolutionary exploit. It installs CWM 4.0.0.8 during the process.
Then you need to make a nandroid backup. (see my backup thread)
Then you should upgrade to the official Clockworkmod Recovery, replacing 4.0.0.8 that was installed with the S-OFF exploit. The version is 5.0.2.7
Dev section link for the official CWM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1329160
Once you do that, you should already have the superuser.apk you need for rooting that you found when you got the Revolutionary S-OFF tools. You can either have done it then, or now.
I'd wait until after getting the official CWM first, simply because that makes your first nandroid backup as fresh as it can be. It's up to you when you do it.
And that's basically it.
You now have a stock, rooted phone that you can start to play with. I'd say play with it for a little while on the stock ROM before switching to another, that way you'll get a feel for what you gain or lose, and if the various trade-offs are worth it.
Before doing any of that stuff, though, read through this thread:
Read this before posting. MT4G Slide Compendium
That will get you a little more familiar with the terminology, and provide helpful links to start exploring what you need to know.
Also read as much of this thread as you can stand:
S-OFF for Retail (S-ON) Devices, NOTE ADDED 8/17/11
This S-OFF for retail is the thread that officially announced the Revolutionary exploit for S-OFF here. The links in the OP will take you to where you need to go to get it.
If you get through that one, then this is a follow up:
PERMANENT-ROOT (NEW!) & Temp-Root (v2) for any MT4GS (Windows)
The temp-root thread is a bit confusing, because before we got S-OFF you could root the phone until you rebooted it. Once the Revolutionary S-OFF method was out, this thread also ran tandem with the official announcement thread. Because it was also dealing with temp root, it led to a lot of confusion.
There is some really good info in that thread, but I recommend reading the official release thread first. It'll make more sense that way, and you may not even have to check the temp-root thread.
(again, this lends to the evolving nature of what we're learning here - hard to keep it organized as it grows.)
Also, this thread: How To Turn S-Off, Install MoDaCo Clockworkmod Recovery, and Install a Rom For Dummie
Was written as a summary on how to get S-OFF and Root, because of how convoluted and looong the two previously mentioned threads got.
Once you hit this point, you're basically set.
My next move would be to install busybox, which you can find in the market, then immediately flash the Security patch to fix a glaring security flaw created by HTC.
At this point i'd make another nandroid backup.
@eon said:
-Which rooting methods are guaranteed to be un-rootable? That option is crucial, if I ever need to go back to stock or do a warranty exchange (for all those people who were gonna say "Why the hell would you ever consider unrooting?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are all un-rootable, but once you go from S-ON to S-OFF that's a one-way trip. Several people have reported exchanging their devices after returning to stock with an S-OFF bootloader without issue.
This is returning to T-Mobile, though, it's questionable if HTC will accept a return directly of a device with an S-OFF bootloader.
@eon said:
-So some people suggest ClockworkMod Recovery, others don't seem to care. I ask, is there any real difference between the two? And why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned, upgrade to the official Clockworkmod recovery as soon as possible. From here on out it will be the only supported recovery.
@eon said:
-Also, which are the best/most stable roms you would suggest? Because I've done the trial and error thing before, comparing several different roms, and I never seemed to find anything worthwhile. (Also, I checked CyanogenMod's site and either I'm blind or they don't have a single rom for the MT4GS)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm working on releasing the updated version of Bulletproof right now, actually, and you'll like that one. Should be out in a day or so. The original developer is moving on and is handing it off to me.
I've just spent the last....dunno how long working at it, and needed to take 5 and clear my head. Cruised through the XDA MT4GS forums as i'm winding down for a break, and you caught me at a good time to give a response.
CM7 just got officially put on hold, but with your interest in the camera you probably wouldn't have gone for that right away. It's an alpha release, and we are very excited to have official CM support for the device, but since Ice Cream Sandwich ( Android 4.0 ) source code was just released, the CM team is focusing on that and it's likely to be a while before the CM7 for our phone sees an update.
Honestly, i'm more excited that they are focusing so exculsively on Ice Cream Sandwich, because that means a lot more for all the phones and devices beyond just our own version of CM7.
I'll leave other ROM recommendations to others who will surely come through here and tell you more about them.
@eon said:
-I think you somewhat answer the question regarding features of the stock camera being available after rooting. But I need to know: After rooting, is the camera going to be the same as the stock one, including ALL available features (SweepShot, ClearShot HDR, Burst Shot, Macro, Night...)? And is that camera program featured within all rooted roms, or does it have to be installed seperately?
-And ditto that question in regards to G-Maps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much all of the ROMs will support both the Camera app (in its entirety, included in the ROM) and Google maps.
The alpha port of CM7 is the only one (pretty sure) that doesn't support the camera, because the camera is tied into the sense frameworks. CM7 has no Sense components to it, and it was stated very clearly in the thread that it never will. The CM team and their ROM is worth losing the camera app over to a lot of people, and they are the lone exception to the "no camera app" stigma.
Keeping the camera app is one of the things that has been driving development around here, and very few people were willing to use or invest time in making a ROM that would exclude it.
I should take this time to point out that the stock gps configurations are, well, flat out wrong. Misconfigured, and it doesn't work well.
Myself and another developer independently spent a lot of time working on fixing this issue, and when we realized what each other were doing we also realized that we had the piece of the puzzle the other needed to make it work.
We released a collaboration that solved the problem, which you can find here: GPS lock too long or not at all? Try this
If you want to know how my half of the puzzle works, that thread will explain it in almost excrutiating detail. I recommend my patch over the other developers, as he is no longer with us and I will only be continuing support in my thread.
@eon said:
-And finally this may seem like a n00b question, but I've still never gotten a clear answer: How/When can a Nandroid Backup be performed? I know that it would be a safety precaution in case I ever f*cked up my device and needed to restore, but I've never been able to find clear, accurate, and relevant instructions on how to nandroid backup or even nandroid restore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just cruise through my backup thread. Post 1 is an adb method, post 2 is the nandroid method. If you have any questions, post them in that thread and help us try to maintain some kind of order (hah!)
@eon said:
So I apologize for asking so many questions, especially since I imagine they seem redundant and novice. However, I have rooted phones before so I'm not a complete n00b; I'm just trying to be VERY thorough this time around, to avoid any potential for error. Thank you in advance for your time.
-Colton
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Click to collapse
Honestly, don't ever worry about asking too many or too long of a question, as long as you don't post the question itself as a new thread in the development section of the MT4GS forums.
I'm sorry to hear it took such a bad experience for you to become as cautious as you are, but now that you're long past it you are much better off.
I'd much rather see someone ask questions, read some stuff, ask more questions, and then act on knowledge then just go and do and then say "I broke it, what do I do".
I'm happy to help either way, but if the information is there already then reading it before you start is much better then retroactively. Save the "how do I fix it" for uncharted territory learning things that aren't already common knowledge.
Again, part of the problem is that information is so convoluted because we keep adding to it as we learn new things. You can't really structure it before you know what it's going to be.
Myself and a few others have been trying to put effort into organizing things, but it's really a monumental task and i'd like to develop new things more so then catalogue what we already know. It's a crappy balance, but I try to put equal time to developing and organizing/answering questions.
I hope this helped you out some, I know I didn't completely cover it all but it should give you some things to chew on and help you sift through the data by spending more time on the relevant parts. Even then it's still a lot that you should know.
Don't be afraid to ask questions, one of the reasons I go into such depth is because people can correct me precisely where i'm wrong if I am about something.
You learn more when you're willing to admit you don't know something, then to pretend you do for whatever reason. Asking the right questions depends on being honest about what you do and don't know with yourself, so fire away.
I've got to get outside for a few minutes, then get back into coding, but someone else will come along and add to this soon enough.
Take care!

Well I definitely very much appreciate your prompt, and very detailed response to my many questions. I've been reading over what you've written plus the links over the past day. The main issue I have is digging through each thread looking for relevant information, while trying not to get sucked into each and every tangent post/link/info. I lost track of how many hours I've wasted reading irrelevant info which I initially thought actually had something to do with what I was after. And now a day later, I have my desk covered in reference notes (which are no longer comprehensible) and I'm more confused than I was before.
There are plenty of issues I have with forums in general. First of which being, organization seldom exists. Its like going into a library with a single question about 'how to change a tire', and leaving with 15 random, heavy books on quantum theory and black-matter, because apparently someone implied they were somehow related (I'm referring to other people, not you). Discouraging to say the least. I thought this would be more black-and-white; more simple. When 'Android' was new, rooting was simple (less ways to re-invent the wheel).
I'm walking away from this for now. The headache isnt worth it (I literally feel like I got skull-f*cked by god himself). But thank you for your help and feedback.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
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Click to collapse
Yes it is DEFINITELY worth it... Root away my friend and welcome to the MT4GS family. This phones kicks ass and we are expanding every day like wildfire
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

@eon said:
...
I'm walking away from this for now. The headache isnt worth it (I literally feel like I got skull-f*cked by god himself). But thank you for your help and feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah, yea, XDA is like that all over - just the nature of the beast.
This is not the quick-answer type of home, yet from a developers point of view there is no better place on the internet for android/phone development information and help.
It really does all start here, and the journey of discovery is much more prized and worthwhile then the actual end result. In that respect the way XDA is, is the way it should be.
Sometimes the best way to come to grips with something is to forget about it for a little while. Let your mind work it over running in the background, and when you bring it back into focus you'll have a better hold on what you need, and what you still have to learn.
Again, feel free to ask any questions you may have and we'll do the best we can to get you set in the right direction.

Ya, it was like mass overload the other day; it was like trying to make a PBJ sandwhich, then realizing I have to bake my own bread from scratch, grind up peanuts into butter, and somehow pick my own berries for jam, etc...
Anyways, I read over some of those topics again and some of it makes a little more sense. But still, some of those threads are so damn long, Im not gonna read each and every post from top to bottom of the thread, at least not yet. But the main issue I've realized is definitely going to be a problem is the fact that turning S-Off is irreversible. There is absolutely no method of turning S-On after its been turned off, which doesnt seem to make any sense; I figure, if you are able to flip a light-switch on, its only obvious you should be able to flip the switch off. So why is the 'S-Off' method a one-way path? And is this problem going to be fixed?
I read a bunch of articles and tutorials on 'unrooting' the MT4GS, and each one says that it will change the phone back to the stock factory condition it was in before rooting. Of course, once I scroll down and keep reading comments, everyone says that there isnt a way to turn "S-ON". SO, how the hell would someone be able to root their phone while still ever having the option to do a warranty exchange? Unrooting is great cause it gets you most the way there. But I've been reading that when T-Mobile recieves the phone, they send it to HTC for inspection/repair, and thats where they look at all the software/firmware/h-boot/recovery/S-ON Versions to make sure they are at factory specs. So once again, even though it is possible to "unroot" the MT4GS if need be, it still impossible to fully go back to factory standard (which is exactly what I was worried about).
Thats ****ty cause I was actually willing and ready to start rooting via theunlockr.com's method (cause its a hell of a lot easier than any tutorial in these forums, it does it the same way, its just easier to understand). BUT, that S-ON/S-OFF snafu is enough for me to reconsider. As I'm sure there are tons of benefits to rooting and therefore I may not ever want to unroot, I still may need to for the sake of the warranty exchange. And believe me when I say that I NEED to have the ability to exchange; I've had to exchange the MT4GS 5 times within 3 consecutive weeks because each one I recieved in the mail had some physical manufacturer defects. And since the most recent replacement is a refurb, I need to leave that Warranty-Door open in case I need to exchange.... again.
By the way, I forgot why S-Off was required in the first place. Is it possible to remain rooted without S-Off???

@eon said:
Ya, it was like mass overload the other day; it was like trying to make a PBJ sandwhich, then realizing I have to bake my own bread from scratch, grind up peanuts into butter, and somehow pick my own berries for jam, etc...
Anyways, I read over some of those topics again and some of it makes a little more sense. But still, some of those threads are so damn long, Im not gonna read each and every post from top to bottom of the thread, at least not yet. But the main issue I've realized is definitely going to be a problem is the fact that turning S-Off is irreversible. There is absolutely no method of turning S-On after its been turned off, which doesnt seem to make any sense; I figure, if you are able to flip a light-switch on, its only obvious you should be able to flip the switch off. So why is the 'S-Off' method a one-way path? And is this problem going to be fixed?
I read a bunch of articles and tutorials on 'unrooting' the MT4GS, and each one says that it will change the phone back to the stock factory condition it was in before rooting. Of course, once I scroll down and keep reading comments, everyone says that there isnt a way to turn "S-ON". SO, how the hell would someone be able to root their phone while still ever having the option to do a warranty exchange? Unrooting is great cause it gets you most the way there. But I've been reading that when T-Mobile recieves the phone, they send it to HTC for inspection/repair, and thats where they look at all the software/firmware/h-boot/recovery/S-ON Versions to make sure they are at factory specs. So once again, even though it is possible to "unroot" the MT4GS if need be, it still impossible to fully go back to factory standard (which is exactly what I was worried about).
Thats ****ty cause I was actually willing and ready to start rooting via theunlockr.com's method (cause its a hell of a lot easier than any tutorial in these forums, it does it the same way, its just easier to understand). BUT, that S-ON/S-OFF snafu is enough for me to reconsider. As I'm sure there are tons of benefits to rooting and therefore I may not ever want to unroot, I still may need to for the sake of the warranty exchange. And believe me when I say that I NEED to have the ability to exchange; I've had to exchange the MT4GS 5 times within 3 consecutive weeks because each one I recieved in the mail had some physical manufacturer defects. And since the most recent replacement is a refurb, I need to leave that Warranty-Door open in case I need to exchange.... again.
By the way, I forgot why S-Off was required in the first place. Is it possible to remain rooted without S-Off???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not permanently. you'd have to temp-root every time you reboot.
Revolutionary is about the easiest way to root a phone in existence so I'm not sure why you're so scared... assuming you have adb working, it's literally as easy as plugging your phone in and opening a single file in the Revolutionary zip archive. everything is done for you. as long as you don't download their faulty recovery (it will ask you if you want to... just say no), it's literally the easiest rooting method available that I've ever seen.
don't make it too complicated. I certainly believe in having all of your bases covered, especially when it comes to potentially screwing up a $500 bundle of plastic, metal and silicone, but rooting is not a big deal anymore.
many people will tell you that they have received warranty replacements after sending in S-OFF/rooted phones. my best guess would be that HTC/Tmo randomly pick phones to "thoroughly check" and the majority don't receive this type of treatment.. and even if they find a rooted device, there's no telling whether or not they will deny your replacement.
I received a warranty replacement (faulty hardware buttons, the leds never turned off) for my gal's rooted MT4GS simply by installing the stock rom and recovery, but still with Revolutionary's hboot installed. No issues whatsoever. I'm not saying it's "right" and I'm not guaranteeing you the same result, just offering my first-hand experience.
here's how you can obtain perma-root and s-off in ~10 minutes. no complicated guides:
www.revolutionary.io
download installer, enter serial # to get your code.
open archive and find the installer... let it run.
when it's done, you'll be rooted and s-off with a custom hboot. say "no" to the download recovery option and manually flash the official CWM recovery, or modaco's 4.0.0.9 recovery image. (either should be fine, although roms are going to start coming out that may have issues with the 4.0.0.9 modaco recovery so cwm is probably your best bet)
if not being able to flip the S-OFF switch back to S-ON at this point is something you can't get over, this isn't for you. personally, I spent $500 on this phone and I'm going to do whatever the hell I want to it, and if TMO and HTC have a problem with that, I will happily take my business elsewhere.

Its not rooting that I'm worried about, its the possibility of having to do (yet another) warranty exchange and being caught sending back a warranty-void device. And since I just found out that my premium phone insurance extends my warranty for an indefinite amount of time, I imagine that i will undoubtedly be exchanging this phone sometime in the future. I can only hope that by then either the S-Off thing has been fixed or T-Mobile announces they no longer care. I can see both happening, honestly.
Rooting is going to be the easy part, if/when I decide to do it. The last things I havent yet figured out are:
-Which Rom(s) I'm going to try. When I compare most roms side by side, they all seem vaguely identical. I remember Cyanogen having the option of fully customized visual aspects/themes, as well as tons of settings/features that werent offered through other roms. But the problem with CM is that, as you said before, the several camera options/modes in the stock rom are not being used by CM. I'm looking for a rom that is, above all, stable; lightweight/fast; includes all camera features of stock rom; and if apps like gmaps wont be included, I'd like to be able to find something that is comparable, or even better if possible. If not, I really hope the market allows gmaps to be installed on a rooted device (a while back on my rooted phone, the install of gmaps would always fail) Also, you had mentioned that you were nearing completion of a Rom of your own, so I might read up on that as well.
-I read up on that article on micro sd cards regarding speed comparisons, so I ended up running the benchmark app on my pc and found that my SanDisk 8bg Class 4 was (apparently) faster than my currently used Samsung 16gb Class 2, which sucks cause I like having more space than I use. But anyways it got me thinking, I realize that speed is important for file-transfers and also running apps that have been moved to the sd, but I could have sworn I remember someone talking about how they had rooted and then installed their OS/Rom onto their SD card instead of the phone itself. I dont know if I read that wrong or not. And if that was accurate, then I want to know if there is truly any benefit from doing that or not.
-Also, in regards to sd cards, I remember last year when I had a rooted MT3G with Amon Ra's recovery, there was an option to throw in partitions. Almost everyone I talked with on here told me to add a partition. Then after a few updates to the recovery, I noticed new options in the partition section: Ext.2, Ext.3, and Ext.4 as well as the options to select the partition size and "swap" size. I never did understand what exactly the difference (if any) between "Ext.2, Ext. 4.... etc" was.
And as far as the "swap" size, I remember there being a LOT of debate over what exactly this number should be. Some people started suggesting outrageously high numbers, while others explicitly explained to not do that, because apparently the lower the number the faster it becomes. Ok, so if thats the basic concept, great. But I still never did find any reliable information regarding "swap" size.
So ya, those are the final questions/issues that have been bugging me. Any advice/help is greatly appreciated.