Database Info

[INFO] IMPORTANT!!! Clockworkmod and TNT Lite 5

This is going to be long, but I have a lot to say.
There's been a LOT of heated debate about TNT Lite 5, lately. This build is based on the vendor's 3991 UAT build. This build is a "1.2" build which means it's a major update from Viewsonic, and it replaces the bootloader. Not only that but the new kernel REQUIRES the new bootloader. We are not certain yet, but Viewsonic is likely to be moving into this direction.
Now, many forum members use clockworkmod. What I have recently learned is that clockworkmod does NOT update the bootloader. In the case of stock 3991 (and TNT Lite 5.0.0) that means that clockworkmod cannot be used as an upgrade tool - IT DOES NOT WORK and, in this case, will actually break your device.
With that in mind it's my opinion that, since clockworkmod has this caveat, then it is a risk and the user community should be made aware of this. If you are willing to take this risk, be aware of the caveat and that, if needed, that you will need to use the nvflash tool to fix your device.
Some of us have been dancing around the issue saying that nvflash is not for non-technical users, and thus TNT Lite 5.0.0 should be pulled completely given the problems with upgrading with clockworkmod. My rebuttal is a simple one -- imo, if a forum user decides to take the risk of using clockworkmod, then they should also understand how to use nvflash as a backout - they go hand in hand and should be a requirement, not an option.
I have heard many complaints about TNT Lite 5 upgrades, but the two most common ones are these:
1. Backing out to stock 3588 breaks recovery (originally clockworkmod).
2. Upgrading to TNT Lite 5.00 by using clockworkmod, by mistake.
Imo, most of the issues we've seen have been clockworkmod related - that's not to say that there have not been other issues, but I believe that the vast majority of them were related to clockworkmod.
I am still under pressure to pull TNT Lite because of the increase in user issues - I think this is the wrong thing to do and I am getting some flak because of my stubbornness. If VS sticks with their new bootloader, this is something that every modder here is going to have to deal with, eventually. But if they backpedal, then I made the wrong choice and we'd need to undo TNTL 5. We just don't know yet.

I think you are right that it maybe something that needs to dealt with sooner or latter as this update could be in anticipation of a even bigger upgrade to 2.3 or 3.0?
It seems from reading threads that not everyone is familiar with reflashing or I hate to say but reading and understanding the steps. The very worse comment I read was "I'll just return my tab and blame insert a cause " What horse hockey.
If they don't know or care to take the time and proceed with caution and then not take responsible for it then they should leave well enough alone.

I actually would like to hear replies (for and against) because maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. I am stubborn, but if someone gives me a good enough argument I could change my way of thinking. One valid argument is that Viewsonic hasn't even released 1.2 yet, which is a good point. They have to do something very soon (due to Flash) so hopefully by the EO this month we will know what happens.
One of my theories on why they updated the bootloader in this last release was to consolidate development between the GTablet and their newer devices. I don't know if I'm even close to the mark here, it's just a guess. Their kernel is back to an svn #1, so maybe they are using a new development branch.

I vote you not pull it. Like you've said here and in the TNT Lite 5 thread, if someone decides to use a rom they should read the instructions (several times if necessary) before they embark on trying this or any other rom.
If people are throwing caution to the winds and jumping in before they have an understanding of what they are about to do then I say the fault is on their part not yours. You can only do so much hand-holding but in the end the people that use this site and are interested enough to try different roms should know better. Personally, I think you're being more diplomatic than most people about this.
Who knows, since our gTabs have proven to be almost unbrickable maybe people have lost their usual caution?

Vote Don't Pull -- NVFlash Not That Bad...
I vote to keep 5.0.x up.
I have two tablets and had not had to flash one after several months.
But having had to learn nvflash and subsequently doing what I could to help
others -- it's just simply not that bad (at least for the Windows version since
that's what I use.)
Now that a number of us have made sure USB, nvflash and .img files are
available -- and that there are several posts with instructions out there -- I
don't think the nvflash process is any harder than learning the normal
"recovery" process.
If we -- any of us -- are going to play.....then we need to man up
(or woman up, sorry ladies!) and do it right and not complain about it.
Honestly, many times when folks have trouble, it is their own fault.
"Laissez le bon temps roulez" they say during the Mardi Gras celebrations down
here. "Let the good times roll."
Rev

Don't Pull It! Keep it up! We will support you
I have not and will not be flashing your rom at least until it is found out that there is a permanent change coming and the new bootloader is part of that change. I have tried just about every rom I have found for the gtab except tnt 5.0 but that is not because I don't want to screw up flashing it, I am sure with nvflash I would get it back on track, but it is because I have not found the previous releases my preference and I doubt 5.0 would make that change.
By the way no offence to you roebeet, your work and developing here have been beyond superb and are much appreciated. I unfortunately just don't prefer tnt on my tablet. But don't let anyone tell you that you need to remove your work. Your work is not the one borking their tablets they are.
Thanks for all your work Roebeet, even the work you do that I may not use myself

I had zero issues with the upgrade to 5. I thought the instructions for it were clear and concise . I used nvflash to fix my GTab after I noobishly tried to update from Rom Manager when I first started testing the different roms, so nvflash is my friend.
My GTab is running great on 5.0.1 right now, so I hope you will continue to to work on it and not pull it.
Thanks for all your hard work
Jeffrey

Keep it up. at least we have NVflash and its not a real brick. I remember having to update to Danger SPL on my G1, and people were getting real bricks.
IMHO if people are flashing ROMs they need to take a little time to learn what they're doing.

You can't pull it because of ignorance on our part... that defeats the whole point of hacking. Heck, it was the first full rom i installed and guess what? I followed one of the howto threads ignoring your instructions and got to learn all about nvflash. Pull the inaccurate howtos or get their ops to update them.... that'll definitely cut down the failure rate.
I'm glad I bricked my gtab after a whole hour of ownership. I now have a very nice Nvidia Tegra system post bitmap instead of the 10 year old viewsonic birds as a result of it!
The new viewsonic recovery does sd updating if I recall correctly... People can offer kernels and other updates in multiple formats.... They're going to have to if viewsonic goes GA with it.
Keep up the good work!
Sent from my Gingerbread VEGAn-TAB using Tapatalk

I agree with what seems to be the majority so far. Don't pull it.
I have been on this site for quite a while through at least 5 phones (all of them winmo). I do not count myself as an expert and rely heavly on others to develop what have turned out to be excellent ROMs and software and the means by which we can load them on our phones and tablets and other devices.
I have read and read and read and read some more. I have asked questions too. Most of the time becasue the knowledge is too technical for my small mind.
Too many people here expect hand holding and rather than reading, expect, or worse, demand, help when they haven't read the instructions.
To pull your ROM because people can't be bothered to read is to let them win and, in my opinion, dumb down this site.
There are warnings posted everywhere advising of the risks of modding our devices, including bricking the devices. In fact, the people most at risk of bricking are the developers, like you. If you are willing to risk bricking in the name of development, why can't others take responsibility for their actions?
No one points a gun at members' heads and tells them to flash. They join here of their own free will and perform upgrades to their devices in the hopes of making them better. If you are flashing a device, then you are aware that you could brick, or bork, your device.
Moreover, there are countless people here who are more than willing to help unbrick a device. So after bricking, people are forced to learn and read.
Here is a novel idea: Let's take responsibility for our own actions. Not just here, but everywhere.
Keep putting out your ROMs and mods and we can, as adults and willing participants, decide whether to use them or not.
I am now stepping down off the soapbox.

Just saying,
From what I have seen as a daily follower of this forum. It seems more and more users are just getting bolder knowing if something goes wrong, they have nvflash to rescue them from thier "Inevitable" - "User Error".
Heck, I've foolishly done it myself and I had to learn nvflash.
The risks of flashing Custom ROMs is clearly present. You (Roebeet) as Dev should not have to brunt the burden of an inexperienced user when something bad happens. After all, we were all inexperienced at some point or another. And the GTAB makes for a great learning device considering all the tools and support available here to backstep when something does go wrong.
I suggest you don't pull the ROM, but considering the extra complications involved with flashing 5, I could only suggest users clearly have an understanding
of said steps for a successful flash.
Best of Luck dude, and thank you for all your hard work.
It does not go unappreciated here!
T!

I think you should leave it up i myself accidently locked up my tab but i was able to find a resolution and get back up and running there are always issues with new things people just have to relax and go with the flow.

Thanks to everyone, so far! This was how I felt, as well - seems that it's not an easy path, but it's worth it in the end.
I just hope to FSM that Viewsonic doesn't beckpedal on me, because TNT Lite 6 will be as much fun as TNT Lite 5. /sarcasm

I don't see how anyone can complain. Rooting and installing software that is NOT from the manufacturer is at your own risk. I took that risk when I rooted and installed TNT 2.4 and then 4.2.5.
So keep it up and continue with 5.0.1 Let the reader decide if they wish to install the ROM.
With my history, I'll wait till TNT 6.2 before upgrading.

you've been given how to do/don't instructions, you're not to blame. Thank you for your hard work Roebeet;

Ok I am a total noob. .....a danger to mess anything up. ....I was spooked. Because I got this tab to mod and before I received it I studied here and YouTube on how to flash using cwm. .I thought. I was ready then came 5.0 and changed the game I then studied your tutorial and asked questions, alot of them until I felt comfortable I flashed to 5.0 without a hitch but I had nvflash ready to go...my point is that I knew I could Bork this up it was my risk I took it, roebeet has gone way far and above to give us this and help everyone out. Keep 5 up until a major change has to be done if not we know you will be on top of it...Thank you for your efforts!!!!
Signed,
Noob

I don't see any reason to pull it. The instructions and warnings are perfect.. And if you happen to be one of the ones that doesn't read the big giant print first then I suppose you deserve the lesson in learning NVflash. Might actually have a positive outcome by teaching people to read first...
One question I have though has to do with TnT 5 and Calkulins rom. They are both based off of 3991 yet Calkulins rom does not require a special clockwork, or need to be installed from 3588.. How come TnT 5 does? Calkulins rom is very fast, and from my impressions looks almost the same as TnT 5..
Just curious....

I vote to leave it up. I think those having issues are not reading /understanding correctly. I think some of the fear of nvflash is there are several conflicting sets of instructions also slightly vague instructions. Maybe one updated very detailed set of instructions (sticky) will eliminate fear and questions.

F*ck the haters, leave it up. I'm on 5.1 now, read everything and had no issues.

Keep it up, that's my vote. You are taking a calculated risk and that is valid in order to go forward. If VS takes another direction, so be it. The alternative is wait and do nothing and I don’t think you want to do that, but it's your call. We support you one hundred percent.
Thanks for your work I can say so because I'm a v5.∅.! User.

Noobs: Rooting -- No Big Deal

I'm not into the cell phone scene, so I don't know about "rooting" there -- but with the G-Tablet it's no big deal.
First, with the G-Tablet all you have to do is D/L (from a market or sideload) the
program "z4root". After installing z4root you touch on button to root the tablet
permanently. Done.
Second, if you do go on and mod your tablet using the ROMs put out by our devs, you will find most of them come with "root" installed.
And....the main thing I have observed root does for you when getting started
with the G-Tablet is that it lets you run "Root Explorer", a good file management program -- and "Titanium Backup", a good backup too. (Others many prefer other tools besides these. I just mention them because lots of folks use them here.)
I've read comments from several folks fretting over rooting and just thought I should say it's no big deal.
Rev

Seems like the G-tab is much easier to Root compared to HTC G2 which needed ADB and other tweaks to get it to work. Even then it took me 2 hours to get root access, Load CM 7 nightly build, Customize device with apps and tinker. So i would imagine the G-tab will take 1hr-1.5hr to do everything including customizing and downloading apps and such. It is nice to see members with experience putting up new threads and such with information on how to root and load roms. I think if someone has some good links and guides that would help the community a-lot and have a safe starting point for all instead of having 10,000 new bricked G-tabs added to the community.

Is it just me or does every thread here get closed "before it gets out of hand" ?
I have been on this forum for years, along with hundreds of other and I have never seen a thread where the mods are this controlling and close threads like it is going out of style.

faiz23,
Thanks for the post. It confirms that a phone root is what I thought it would be!
I am happy to help folks, but I have to tell you I will be among the contingent telling
new folks to move slow, be cautious, read and study until you understand, ask
questions, and make good decisions. Did I mention read and study and understand?
I don't know of anyone who has absolutely bricked their G-Tab (there may be one or two, but I don't know anything about them). But I sure know of a pile of people who
have sweated blood and wanted to pound their head with bricks after messing one up
and having to look at their $400 useless technology for a while.
IMHO, too many people move too fast -- and if enough people mess up it makes it
really hard for the "helper" folks on the forum to keep everyone up.
Good luck. Oh, and did I mention read and research and study until you understand?!
Rev

darkrift,
Just read the forums and you will see why things are a little tight.
One of our devs, roebeet, brought out a new ROM based on what we call UAT 3991 (an update that hasn't been published). It has a new generation of software in it (not
Honeycomb) that changes some of the key software. IF YOU DON'T READ AND UNDERSTAND AND DO THE INSTALL RIGHT, IT WILL SEMI-BRICK YOUR G-TABLET AND
REQUIRE ADVANCED MEASURES TO RECOVER.
A lot of people tried the new update and a pile of folks semi-bricked the tablets. I am reasonably experienced and in spite of doing everything "right" my test tablet started
boot looping and I had to do an advanced recovery. All the ROMS, software, mods, etc. you do "can" have a cumulative effect on future mods -- so the more you play the
more it increases the risk.
Lot of the folks semi-bricked because they didn't do it right, and it has really made it hard to get everyone fixed and keep everybody running.
So I think everyone that cares about the G-Tablet here on the forums is making an effort to upgrade docs, keep things from getting too complicated, encourage folks to
be cautious -- and in general provide better stuff to work with.
We all want to play and have fun. It's keeping it from NOT being fun that's the problem. Read and read and read and you will understand.
My opinion, anyhow.
Rev
P. S. -- Sorry if it sounds like I'm lecturing you. Didn't mean to -- it just
goes with my vocation. With your experience I know you will understand.

if you are doing a wipe and the roms are packaged properly, there should be no cumulative effect. are the devs building partial roms that stack on top of the current roms instead of releasing full self contained images? something doesnt sound right about that, but regardless.... rom flashing is risky, to the flasher. if they cant take the risk, that is their problem. doesnt mean we need to be closing threads where users are talking calmly because we are scared they might e-riot at any time.

darkrift,
I don't think it's the devs fault. Their ROMs are good.
The best way I know to say it is that when you format, erase/delete, recover, etc. you cannot count on everything being blanked. There are 12 partitions in the G-Tablet and they don't all get changed all the time -- say loading a ROM.
I NVFlashed once to fix a problem and loaded and update afterward and still wound up with files in memory left over from the pre-problem setup!
Only in the last couple of weeks have a couple of folks been addressing the "format" issue (from the standpoint of a clean wipe) and while I'm reading and learning, I haven't had time thorougly follow what they are doing yet.
As for closing, I understand what you are saying, but I also understand where the moderators are coming from too.
Rev

Darkrift said:
if you are doing a wipe and the roms are packaged properly, there should be no cumulative effect. are the devs building partial roms that stack on top of the current roms instead of releasing full self contained images? something doesnt sound right about that, but regardless.... rom flashing is risky, to the flasher. if they cant take the risk, that is their problem. doesnt mean we need to be closing threads where users are talking calmly because we are scared they might e-riot at any time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The term "cumulative effect" may be a bit misleading. However, some of us have experienced issues with the partitioning of the internal sdcard that we believe may be related to heavy modding. Over time we'll start to get unexplained errors reading and writing to user spaces that should be relatively untouched by the flashing process. Repartitioning usually resolves the issues. We've also seen situations where experienced modders have followed directions precisely and still ended up with unexpected results. Subsequent attempts result may result in success or failure in what seems to be random selection. This is usually seen on devices that have been previously modded but it's difficult to say to what degree since no one has really been able to collect enough data to be useful but it is certainly in large enough numbers to have been a concern for some.

Dear all wooters, please don't try to do modding yoga

I may be imagining it, but it seems like there's a steady increase of "help, I bricked my gtab" threads as people are starting to receive their woot's gtabs. Please stop and think. Have you ever done something like modding an android device before? Is it worth it?
If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it.
I currently got 2 gtabs. One I have modded the hell out of and the other I'm keeping the stock rom. What you can do is go to settings and set it to classic. The annoying weather TnT thing will go away and your gtab will work just fine. Very fast. Very sexy. Love you long time.
I beg you, please help yourself and consider just staying with the classic stock rom. I've been playing with it and I see nothing wrong with it. Works wonderfully.
One user on here came and said when he first started playing with the gtab in office depot he was expecting the worst screen ever because of all the negative reviews about the screen. But to his surprise, it turned out to be very pleasant. Why? Because people on the internet like to exaggerate.
And in this case, people really did exaggerate the unusability of the stock rom. If you're not doing aerobics and yoga with the gtab, you won't notice it. Please do yourself (and us all) a favor by not simply plunging into modding as soon as your gtab arrives. Play with the stock rom first. Make sure you set it to classic. Give it a couple days before you decide to whether put a custom rom on there or not.
Please think about what I just said. Amen.

+1 good advice!!!!!!

x2. And please read up on things like adb and nvflash BEFORE you you start modding. Imo, anyone modding their device should have these tools handy, in advance.
"adb", for example, is almost a standard requirement in other Android phone forums. But for some reason it's not stressed here - I am guilty of that as well. I think that, if you are taking the risk (and it IS a risk) to mod your device, you should have the tools to save yourself from yourself. There's a nice writeup on nvflash that I posted (and "Rev" wrote) and adb instructions are all over the place, not just here.
Thanks!

i dont understand where all the problems come from. if you do it just like the guide tells you, shouldnt it work? i havent dont it myself but ive read and reread the guides. arent they all exactly the same out of the box if there ota version is the same? is it people are just not following directions? cause its seems pretty simple to me even though i havent done it before.im planning on doing it and if i follow the directions exactly and it doesnt work, im just gonna throw it out the window.

Also, I forgot to add.
I work in a research lab. Even though I'm an engineer, I'm really the acting tech guy. As a side job, occasionally I make house calls to fix people's computer problems.
It is my experience that not-so tech savy people always manage to find problems that us techies would never find. Not only that, not-so tech savy people most of the time can't remember what they did and can't verbalize what they did. This makes it 100x harder on us techies.
You see, there are unspoken rules in the world of tech. For example, dealing with system files is risky. Deleting them is bad. Things like that. Not-so tech savy people don't know these rules and so they just stumble all over the place finding and creating problems that the tech people would never find.
What I just said above means that when you find (or create) a problem and you didn't follow the proper procedures, you're not always going to find someone that knows a solution. Why? Because the rest of us never dared to go down that dark narrow alley that you decided to run into. We don't know what's in there. And if you manage to find a 3 headed troll, how are we to know what to do since we've never been down that alley?
Take it for what it's worth. If I haven't detered you, at least have adb and nvflash ready. And make sure you know what you're doing with those.

fridge011 said:
i dont understand where all the problems come from. if you do it just like the guide tells you, shouldnt it work? i havent dont it myself but ive read and reread the guides. arent they all exactly the same out of the box if there ota version is the same? is it people are just not following directions? cause its seems pretty simple to me even though i havent done it before.im planning on doing it and if i follow the directions exactly and it doesnt work, im just gonna throw it out the window.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(1) Not-so tech savy people like to take short cuts for whatever reason. They also sometimes skip important steps in a procedure even though it's right there in front of them. At least one wooter has already bricked his gtab without backing up.
(2) No, they're not all exactly the same out of the box. Nothing is ever all exactly the same out of the box.
(3) Everything seems simple to me, too. But according to my experience, what seems simple to someone with experience isn't always simple to everyone else.
Just last week, I went to a woman's house to help her with computer problems. She made it sound like life and death on the phone. The only reason I tolerate her is because she might be my in law one day. Anyway, it turned out that the problem was she thought the monitor was the computer. We have explained to her over and over that it's only the monitor and that the box sitting below is the computer. Seems silly to us, but there it is.

fridge011 said:
i dont understand where all the problems come from. if you do it just like the guide tells you, shouldnt it work? i havent dont it myself but ive read and reread the guides. arent they all exactly the same out of the box if there ota version is the same? is it people are just not following directions? cause its seems pretty simple to me even though i havent done it before.im planning on doing it and if i follow the directions exactly and it doesnt work, im just gonna throw it out the window.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My transition from stock 3588 to tnt lite 5 now twotapsx went smooth as butter however some devices moving from other mods back down to 3588 and then to twotapsx had problems!!! The biggest issue was a confusion on using clockwork mod recovery as those who tried it with the ttx mostly found themselves semi-bricked which led to a literal borkathon . Most issues were from user error but on some cases there were oddball problems that just popped up!! So my point is that in Modding your tablets to anything other than stock you are risking a BORK but if you follow directions and have the proper backouts tools ready such as nvflash and adb you should be ok.

goodintentions said:
(1) Not-so tech savy people like to take short cuts for whatever reason. They also sometimes skip important steps in a procedure even though it's right there in front of them. At least one wooter has already bricked his gtab without backing up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+100 on this one. I have a friend that I had to help with rooting her evo and Gtab, and had to ask her every step she took to make sure she actually took them. Luckily she learned early on to use Nandroid and keep a backup of the stock rom and any working roms before you switch to another one.

fridge,
I've skipped posts after yours to answer you, so I apologize if I duplicate something.
YES, if you do everything right bad things CAN happen:
1. Android is not a well-documented operating system and something you just "think" your doing it right.
2. The G-Tablet can be cranky. Unexpected things happen. The other day my pristine, perfect tab
was shut down properly. Next time I turned it on I had huge
"android.process.acore" errors and I had to fix it.
3. I don't know of anyone who has revealed themselves on this forum that thoroughly
understands the structure of the OS software on the G-Tablet. Read all the posts
on boot.img and partition structure. It really would help us all if we knew more.
4. There are a lot of good people who "help" others on this forum Most give good
advice most of the time -- but those of us that are human make mistakes once in a while.
And honestly, some helpers may not give good advice -- don't do it if you don't
understand and feel good about it.
5. Some people don't abide by good IT practices. I saw someone trying to get help
the other day that had barely gotten started with the G-Tab and already had CWM and had
tried three or four ROMS and other related software -- and had a soft-brick!
People need to move slow and check things out more carefully.
6. And some of the software posted here for your use may not even work right. I know a
couple of programs I have seen associated with lots of crashes. If a program
is listed in the threads with lots of crashes around it -- you better be careful!
I could go on for a long while further. If you REALLY read the forum and what's going
on instead of just looking for things to install, you will see these patterns.
Rev

Agreed completely with the intention of this post but I don't think the increase of people messing theirs up is due to woot just yet. I ordered one from the woot sale and i am fairly sure that it hasn't even shipped yet, the email said within 5 days. They aren't the fastest at shipping stuff.
It's probably more so just due to the dropping price in general.
People who have not done any moding of other android devices before should absoltely so slow and wait on loading whole roms until they get familiar with it and read up a lot and do their homework otherwise they will risk breaking their device.
Sent from my ACS frozen Epic

May or may not be Wooters but several *have* posted that they have recieved them.
Adding one small thing I've learned over the years: sometimes an install/upgrade/mod just doesn't take the first time. Or the second. Or the third. Patience is a key to sucess in these things. If it doesn't work the first time, come back the next day and try it again.
Repeating again: READ the forums and all the old threads. Go back and read them again.
And if you don't do backups, I have no pity for you.

iamchocho said:
Agreed completely with the intention of this post but I don't think the increase of people messing theirs up is due to woot just yet. I ordered one from the woot sale and i am fairly sure that it hasn't even shipped yet, the email said within 5 days. They aren't the fastest at shipping stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, mine from woot is due to arrive tomorrow. May be that's because I ordered mine 10 minutes after midnight.
But regardless, people need to think twice before deciding to take the plunge.
Edit.
And I'm just cranky because I just found out this morning I've been a victim of credit card fraud. Someone's been doing a lot of shopping online with my credit card. Mostly games, so I'm guessing it's some spoiled brat somewhere who got lucky at hitting random numbers and got mine.

roebeet said:
x2. And please read up on things like adb and nvflash BEFORE you you start modding. Imo, anyone modding their device should have these tools handy, in advance.
"adb", for example, is almost a standard requirement in other Android phone forums. But for some reason it's not stressed here - I am guilty of that as well. I think that, if you are taking the risk (and it IS a risk) to mod your device, you should have the tools to save yourself from yourself. There's a nice writeup on nvflash that I posted (and "The Rev" wrote) and adb instructions are all over the place, not just here.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been lurking on the gTab forums here for the last several days, and have been trying to absorb all of the info I can. I tend to research everything in depth before I plunge into anything. While much information is here, it is fragmented, and what is easy to follow for a developer is not as easy to follow for others. roebeet, you do the best of any I've seen, and I appreciate it. I've done a lot of searches which have helped some. I'm not new to Android (or XDA) as I have a stock Droid Incredible, but I am new to mods to Androids. I have also used Linux in the past, and modded kernels for newer drivers using cookbook approaches, so little scares me if I have enough information. I've sort of figured out how to install and use nvflash, ADB, and CWM using the various guides, but I'm missing some fundamental knowledge on WHEN and WHY I should really be prepared to use them. I've also tried to do some reading on Nandroid, but have found little pertinent to the gTab. So here goes:
1. What is the primary use of each of the following tools, nvflash, ADB, and CWM? When should I expect to have to use each of them? Are there gTab specific guides to their uses and the options for each outside of ROM installation guides, etc? Specific examples of when I should use each, and even more important, when NOT to use them, would be helpful. I've read all of the ROM, nvflash and ADB installation guides, and the various FAQs, and I understand HOW to install each of, just want to understand the best practices for each.
2. After reading a lot, it appears that having a complete backup of my particular ROM would be a good idea since partitions seem to differ even on stock gTabs. I've read posts here that refer to Titanium, and the use of ADB and CWM to do backups, and others that refer obliquely to Nandroid. What is the use of each of the above to do backups? It appears that Nandroid is a piece of CWM, but I may be mistaken. And if I install TnTlite using roebeet's guide, I'm not supposed to use CWM anyway. So how do I do a backup?
3. I plan to use my gTab as I get it, allowing it to do OTA updates only, for a few days, playing with the TNT and normal Android interfaces. I understand that a major OTA may be imminent anyway, possibly based on the leaked 3991 ROM, so my current plan is to wait for it, at least for a week or two. I plan to explore the guts of the file system carefully to fully understand the various instructions I've found here. Is there a way to safely install nvflash and ADB and explore more, or do I need to have an already rooted ROM installed on the GTab.
4. Some people recommend updated to newer or tweaked kernels. I've found the kernels, but haven't found any good step by steps on how to install them. Any links you can point to?
As an aside, I think roebeet's idea of a good wiki for this forum is a good one. The main XDA wiki is about useless. I would expect to see beginners guides to nvflash, ADB, CWM, etc.
Thanks for your help.
Jon

Suggestion. If you are going to install a ROM, pull the detailed instructions from one of the reputable Devs here, paste it into a word processor and add a check box before each step ( can use bullet tool) Then make sure you go thru one step at a time and check the box just in case you get interrupted. If you are unclear on a step ( ie clear cache) research it before you do anything.

thanks for your replies guys, it is definitely good to know that even if i do it perfectly it might still not work the 1st time. ill just nvflash it and try again. this is a really informative forum.

I think a centralized FAQ and / or Wiki is needed, for all the concerns you stated.
"How do I setup adb? What is it used for?"
"What is nvflash? How do I backup all my partitions?"
"What's the difference between clockworkmod and standard recovery? What are the pros and cons of both?"
"What are the difference ROMs available and what are their differences?"
"What is a customized kernel and why would I use it?"
"I have an error <fill in the blank> -- what do I do?"
etc etc. With potentially hundreds of Woot users about to jump into XDA, I think this would be a fantastic thing to have. Heck, it would a good thing to have for ALL of us, myself included.
It's NOT an easy task, however. I would argue that it's a very arduous task and something that would need to be ongoing. But I think it would ease some of the repeat questions here, and give new users a good guide to understand some of the basics.

lamchocho,
Wrong! The wooters are here!
And as the days go by there's going to be more.
Gonna be interesting.
Rev

jonalowe said:
I've been lurking on the gTab forums here for the last several days, and have been trying to absorb all of the info I can. I tend to research everything in depth before I plunge into anything. While much information is here, it is fragmented, and what is easy to follow for a developer is not as easy to follow for others. roebeet, you do the best of any I've seen, and I appreciate it. I've done a lot of searches which have helped some. I'm not new to Android (or XDA) as I have a stock Droid Incredible, but I am new to mods to Androids. I have also used Linux in the past, and modded kernels for newer drivers using cookbook approaches, so little scares me if I have enough information. I've sort of figured out how to install and use nvflash, ADB, and CWM using the various guides, but I'm missing some fundamental knowledge on WHEN and WHY I should really be prepared to use them. I've also tried to do some reading on Nandroid, but have found little pertinent to the gTab. So here goes:
1. What is the primary use of each of the following tools, nvflash, ADB, and CWM? When should I expect to have to use each of them? Are there gTab specific guides to their uses and the options for each outside of ROM installation guides, etc? Specific examples of when I should use each, and even more important, when NOT to use them, would be helpful. I've read all of the ROM, nvflash and ADB installation guides, and the various FAQs, and I understand HOW to install each of, just want to understand the best practices for each.
2. After reading a lot, it appears that having a complete backup of my particular ROM would be a good idea since partitions seem to differ even on stock gTabs. I've read posts here that refer to Titanium, and the use of ADB and CWM to do backups, and others that refer obliquely to Nandroid. What is the use of each of the above to do backups? It appears that Nandroid is a piece of CWM, but I may be mistaken. And if I install TnTlite using roebeet's guide, I'm not supposed to use CWM anyway. So how do I do a backup?
3. I plan to use my gTab as I get it, allowing it to do OTA updates only, for a few days, playing with the TNT and normal Android interfaces. I understand that a major OTA may be imminent anyway, possibly based on the leaked 3991 ROM, so my current plan is to wait for it, at least for a week or two. I plan to explore the guts of the file system carefully to fully understand the various instructions I've found here. Is there a way to safely install nvflash and ADB and explore more, or do I need to have an already rooted ROM installed on the GTab.
4. Some people recommend updated to newer or tweaked kernels. I've found the kernels, but haven't found any good step by steps on how to install them. Any links you can point to?
As an aside, I think roebeet's idea of a good wiki for this forum is a good one. The main XDA wiki is about useless. I would expect to see beginners guides to nvflash, ADB, CWM, etc.
Thanks for your help.
Jon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm quoting Jon's post in its entirety because he both perfectly articulates a number of my questions as well as captures my sense that after days worth of information mining on this site, I'm semi-well-informed enough to do the kind of damage that will surely add to the confusion you all seem to realize is imminent here.
I may be able to help with question 4. Buried in Clemsyn's kernel thread (52 pp!) ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=895825
...is this:
INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS:
1. ROOT, Flash CWM Recovery (if you haven't done this yet)
2. Create a FULL nandroid backup (optional since its just a kernel)
3. Download a kernel of choice
4. Put the kernel on root of sd
5. Boot into Clockwork MOD recovery (either from ROM Manager or manually- hold volume up and down at same time and press power button, then select "apply sdcard: update.zip"
6. In recovery select "Install zip from sd card"
7. Select "Choose zip from sd card"
8. Navigate to the kernel file and select it
9. Let it install, it will take a few minutes...screen will go weird (black with big blue letters) then take you back to recovery.
10. Reboot phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

goodintentions said:
Just last week, I went to a woman's house to help her with computer problems. She made it sound like life and death on the phone. The only reason I tolerate her is because she might be my in law one day. Anyway, it turned out that the problem was she thought the monitor was the computer. We have explained to her over and over that it's only the monitor and that the box sitting below is the computer. Seems silly to us, but there it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a fair warning, they (the in-laws) never change.

A little note as to why we'll probably start seeing a lot of uninformed people here is because Viewsonic actually has a link to XDA on the "Favorite gTablet Apps and Resources" page of their site, which is accessible from the main G Tablet home page
It's in the developer resources section, but as everyone already knows that doesn't stop some people.

Worth Rooting?

I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Virtuous is what you like then I'd say yes, go for it and root. The Virtuous ROM might be in beta here in the MT4GS forums but it was smokin' fast and stable enough when I used it. I'm sure an official release is just around the corner anyway. good luck and welcome to the MT4GS family!!

siani_8 said:
If Virtuous is what you like then I'd say yes, go for it and root. The Virtuous ROM might be in beta here in the MT4GS forums but it was smokin' fast and stable enough when I used it. I'm sure an official release is just around the corner anyway. good luck and welcome to the MT4GS family!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback and welcome, good enough reason for me. One thing I do like a lot on stock is the camera app, is that included in the beta or is there a flashable mod?

micahman said:
Thanks for the feedback and welcome, good enough reason for me. One thing I do like a lot on stock is the camera app, is that included in the beta or is there a flashable mod?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes sir, the Doubleshot camera app is included.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root it. Then you can:
Enhance your gps ability because of the generic gps file that's coded very poorly (in fact wrongly ... T-Mo doesn't maintain a good SUPL server, and if you're not on the T-Mo network your AGPS isn't working in stock configuration...well, maybe a little, but not anything worth mentioning. )
Flash a better security update to fix the big-brotheresque HTC spy mode (htcloggers.apk). HTC released an update to patch their security hole, but they are still monitoring everything you do with the device. Flash Undeadk9's security patch to just cut them off at the knees instead, or uninstall htcloggers.apk ( and other file I can't remember at the moment )
Change your hardware key files and re-map some buttons to be more useful.
Flash custom ROMs, as you're aware...
Play with the upcoming kernel files from myself and others...( give us time to make it stable )
...and so much more!
Generally do the things with the device that you've paid for that you should be able to do. Why spend all this money on something, and only use like 60% or less of what it can do?
If you're here and posting, then you should probably just go ahead and root it. It won't be long after you've been poking around in here reading through all the things we have been/are doing with the device before you'll go for it.
Check the sticky at the top of the general section to get a good handle on where to go first and what to read through. Take the time to read through the threads ( I know they are long ) - you'll see what all the problems were that people encountered, and how they were solved. Even if you don't run into the problems, at least you'll learn a whole lot and understand your device much, much more intimately.
...and if you get stuck, we're here to help. Many of us have been through this whole process countless times before, and are willing to lend a hand - just don't post random questions in the dev section and everything will be good.
Welcome to our little corner of the XDA universe - you'll love this device!

Blue6IX said:
Root it. Then you can:
Enhance your gps ability because of the generic gps file that's coded very poorly (in fact wrongly ... T-Mo doesn't maintain a good SUPL server, and if you're not on the T-Mo network your AGPS isn't working in stock configuration...well, maybe a little, but not anything worth mentioning. )
Flash a better security update to fix the big-brotheresque HTC spy mode (htcloggers.apk). HTC released an update to patch their security hole, but they are still monitoring everything you do with the device. Flash Undeadk9's security patch to just cut them off at the knees instead, or uninstall htcloggers.apk ( and other file I can't remember at the moment )
Change your hardware key files and re-map some buttons to be more useful.
Flash custom ROMs, as you're aware...
Play with the upcoming kernel files from myself and others...( give us time to make it stable )
...and so much more!
Generally do the things with the device that you've paid for that you should be able to do. Why spend all this money on something, and only use like 60% or less of what it can do?
If you're here and posting, then you should probably just go ahead and root it. It won't be long after you've been poking around in here reading through all the things we have been/are doing with the device before you'll go for it.
Check the sticky at the top of the general section to get a good handle on where to go first and what to read through. Take the time to read through the threads ( I know they are long ) - you'll see what all the problems were that people encountered, and how they were solved. Even if you don't run into the problems, at least you'll learn a whole lot and understand your device much, much more intimately.
...and if you get stuck, we're here to help. Many of us have been through this whole process countless times before, and are willing to lend a hand - just don't post random questions in the dev section and everything will be good.
Welcome to our little corner of the XDA universe - you'll love this device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, thank you for all the info, I am very grateful. I've noticed there are a few threads detailing how to root but can you tell me which one would be the best and most reliable? Thanks again for all the info, especially about that HTC spy stuff, I had no idea.

micahman said:
Wow, thank you for all the info, I am very grateful. I've noticed there are a few threads detailing how to root but can you tell me which one would be the best and most reliable? Thanks again for all the info, especially about that HTC spy stuff, I had no idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used theunlockr.com to root it, worked like a charm and has a video walk throu.. which I'm a big fan of. Easier to follow. but the only difference is to flash modoco cwm not revolutionary.. so you can flash undeadK9's roms.. id suggest senseless.
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium

shady503403 said:
I used theunlockr.com to root it, worked like a charm and has a video walk throu.. which I'm a big fan of. Easier to follow. but the only difference is to flash modoco cwm not revolutionary.. so you can flash undeadK9's roms.. id suggest senseless.
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man! Got it rooted and running senseless! So far so good!

Not to contradict Shady's advice, especially since it seems like it worked for you, but i've previously and still do recommend against going to a third party web resource outside of XDA to root the device.
The reason being is that a lot of us did everything from the information available here, and we are familiar with the processes and common problems people run into following the guides posted here in the forums.
If you post questions about problems or an issue you run into, you run the risk of slow or no support because of the unfamiliarity the majority of us here have with outside methods and resources.
I know off the top of my head I could post a helpful response to someone having a problem with a method described here. For an outside resource...i'd probably have to go look it up, maybe download somehing, and probably try the method before being able to help.
Then i'd have to dig into the code of whatever offering was in question, to ensure it wasn't doing anything I didn't want it to do before installing anything.
Ultimately, this is a lot more time and trouble then just digging into my memory or looking up a specific thread to verify something, and also probably provide a link to the specific post that addresses the problem.
I'm hitting overtime consistently on my night job, and still picking up hours at my day job, and honestly would rather commit the level of time necessary to troubleshoot an outside resource on something more personally productive, like digging deeper into kernel source or something.
Just a thought to keep in mind as you (and others in the future) wander around here. I promise that everything you need to root your phone and install custom ROMs and such is right here in the MT4GS forums. (excepting the need to go to the revolutionary resource for S-OFF).

Cm7 just dropped like a bomb
sent from my real Gs move in silence like lasagna

mbernusg said:
Cm7 just dropped like a bomb
sent from my real Gs move in silence like lasagna
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With a follow up by Official CWM Recovery. Today was a good day.
Coug76

Blue6IX said:
Not to contradict Shady's advice, especially since it seems like it worked for you, but i've previously and still do recommend against going to a third party web resource outside of XDA to root the device.
The reason being is that a lot of us did everything from the information available here, and we are familiar with the processes and common problems people run into following the guides posted here in the forums.
If you post questions about problems or an issue you run into, you run the risk of slow or no support because of the unfamiliarity the majority of us here have with outside methods and resources.
I know off the top of my head I could post a helpful response to someone having a problem with a method described here. For an outside resource...i'd probably have to go look it up, maybe download somehing, and probably try the method before being able to help.
Then i'd have to dig into the code of whatever offering was in question, to ensure it wasn't doing anything I didn't want it to do before installing anything.
Ultimately, this is a lot more time and trouble then just digging into my memory or looking up a specific thread to verify something, and also probably provide a link to the specific post that addresses the problem.
I'm hitting overtime consistently on my night job, and still picking up hours at my day job, and honestly would rather commit the level of time necessary to troubleshoot an outside resource on something more personally productive, like digging deeper into kernel source or something.
Just a thought to keep in mind as you (and others in the future) wander around here. I promise that everything you need to root your phone and install custom ROMs and such is right here in the MT4GS forums. (excepting the need to go to the revolutionary resource for S-OFF).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true. They use a lot of information found at xda to build their guides off of thou. And a video tutorial is always nice, for me anyways. but yeah.. don't expect support from theunlockr.com.
I always go their, sometimes their outdated or wrong. But still gave me a general idea and I was able to use multiple guides to give me the correct process..
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium

I'm glad I was able to find this thread, cause I've been wondering whether or not it would actually be worth it to root a MT4GS or not. And ya, I can agree that for the most part, rooting has more benefits than problems. And I always have gotten the same answer when asking that question about other devices, "Just root it; you'd have to be crazy not to; nothing compares to a rooted phone, etc...". So I gave in and rooted my MT3G 1.2 (w/ the headphone jack on top). After a while I noticed some definite problems: a few important features were gone, also it was impossible to update G. Maps (because of being rooted), and finally the worst scenario of all: not being possible to un-root the device. I must have tried 10 times, following the directions to the T and repeatedly getting the same failure error. I was finally able to find someone else with a similar problem who posted their solution. Tried, waited, failed. Fully bricked, I mean not even a flicker or a battery light would come on after that. Fortunately, I was able to lie to customer service and convince them to do a warranty exchange (Aeon-1, T-Mobile-0) so I got a replacement and haven't rooted since.
So I guess my point is, I'm actually scared to root my new MT4GS for the sake of potentially not being able to unroot it if need be. But, so far from what I've read it looks like it is reversable if I ever need to. I was likely considering using theunlockr.com's method due to clearly stated, and easily understood instructions. I wish I could say the same about the posts I've read @ XDA regarding rooting instructions.
-Which rooting methods are guaranteed to be un-rootable? That option is crucial, if I ever need to go back to stock or do a warranty exchange (for all those people who were gonna say "Why the hell would you ever consider unrooting?)
-So some people suggest ClockworkMod Recovery, others don't seem to care. I ask, is there any real difference between the two? And why?
-Also, which are the best/most stable roms you would suggest? Because I've done the trial and error thing before, comparing several different roms, and I never seemed to find anything worthwhile. (Also, I checked CyanogenMod's site and either I'm blind or they don't have a single rom for the MT4GS)
-I think you somewhat answer the question regarding features of the stock camera being available after rooting. But I need to know: After rooting, is the camera going to be the same as the stock one, including ALL available features (SweepShot, ClearShot HDR, Burst Shot, Macro, Night...)? And is that camera program featured within all rooted roms, or does it have to be installed seperately?
-And ditto that question in regards to G-Maps.
-And finally this may seem like a n00b question, but I've still never gotten a clear answer: How/When can a Nandroid Backup be performed? I know that it would be a safety precaution in case I ever f*cked up my device and needed to restore, but I've never been able to find clear, accurate, and relevant instructions on how to nandroid backup or even nandroid restore.
So I apologize for asking so many questions, especially since I imagine they seem redundant and novice. However, I have rooted phones before so I'm not a complete n00b; I'm just trying to be VERY thorough this time around, to avoid any potential for error. Thank you in advance for your time.
-Colton

@eon said:
I'm glad I was able to find this thread, cause I've been wondering whether or not it would actually be worth it to root a MT4GS or not. And ya, I can agree that for the most part, rooting has more benefits than problems. And I always have gotten the same answer when asking that question about other devices, "Just root it; you'd have to be crazy not to; nothing compares to a rooted phone, etc...". So I gave in and rooted my MT3G 1.2 (w/ the headphone jack on top). After a while I noticed some definite problems: a few important features were gone, also it was impossible to update G. Maps (because of being rooted), and finally the worst scenario of all: not being possible to un-root the device. I must have tried 10 times, following the directions to the T and repeatedly getting the same failure error. I was finally able to find someone else with a similar problem who posted their solution. Tried, waited, failed. Fully bricked, I mean not even a flicker or a battery light would come on after that. Fortunately, I was able to lie to customer service and convince them to do a warranty exchange (Aeon-1, T-Mobile-0) so I got a replacement and haven't rooted since.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear that didn't work out so well. I think you'll find that your MT4GS experience will be a lot better.
Check the link to my backup thread in my signature. Read through it, and feel free to ask any questions in that thread you may have. I or another will be happy to help you clear them up.
Link: Backups - After Rooting, before ROMing, take this step
@eon said:
So I guess my point is, I'm actually scared to root my new MT4GS for the sake of potentially not being able to unroot it if need be. But, so far from what I've read it looks like it is reversable if I ever need to. I was likely considering using theunlockr.com's method due to clearly stated, and easily understood instructions. I wish I could say the same about the posts I've read @ XDA regarding rooting instructions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, everything tends to happen first here, so trying to keep it all organized as things change and develop is difficult at times, much too convoluted at others.
Basically, you need to take your bootloader from S-ON to S-OFF. Do this with the Revolutionary exploit. It installs CWM 4.0.0.8 during the process.
Then you need to make a nandroid backup. (see my backup thread)
Then you should upgrade to the official Clockworkmod Recovery, replacing 4.0.0.8 that was installed with the S-OFF exploit. The version is 5.0.2.7
Dev section link for the official CWM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1329160
Once you do that, you should already have the superuser.apk you need for rooting that you found when you got the Revolutionary S-OFF tools. You can either have done it then, or now.
I'd wait until after getting the official CWM first, simply because that makes your first nandroid backup as fresh as it can be. It's up to you when you do it.
And that's basically it.
You now have a stock, rooted phone that you can start to play with. I'd say play with it for a little while on the stock ROM before switching to another, that way you'll get a feel for what you gain or lose, and if the various trade-offs are worth it.
Before doing any of that stuff, though, read through this thread:
Read this before posting. MT4G Slide Compendium
That will get you a little more familiar with the terminology, and provide helpful links to start exploring what you need to know.
Also read as much of this thread as you can stand:
S-OFF for Retail (S-ON) Devices, NOTE ADDED 8/17/11
This S-OFF for retail is the thread that officially announced the Revolutionary exploit for S-OFF here. The links in the OP will take you to where you need to go to get it.
If you get through that one, then this is a follow up:
PERMANENT-ROOT (NEW!) & Temp-Root (v2) for any MT4GS (Windows)
The temp-root thread is a bit confusing, because before we got S-OFF you could root the phone until you rebooted it. Once the Revolutionary S-OFF method was out, this thread also ran tandem with the official announcement thread. Because it was also dealing with temp root, it led to a lot of confusion.
There is some really good info in that thread, but I recommend reading the official release thread first. It'll make more sense that way, and you may not even have to check the temp-root thread.
(again, this lends to the evolving nature of what we're learning here - hard to keep it organized as it grows.)
Also, this thread: How To Turn S-Off, Install MoDaCo Clockworkmod Recovery, and Install a Rom For Dummie
Was written as a summary on how to get S-OFF and Root, because of how convoluted and looong the two previously mentioned threads got.
Once you hit this point, you're basically set.
My next move would be to install busybox, which you can find in the market, then immediately flash the Security patch to fix a glaring security flaw created by HTC.
At this point i'd make another nandroid backup.
@eon said:
-Which rooting methods are guaranteed to be un-rootable? That option is crucial, if I ever need to go back to stock or do a warranty exchange (for all those people who were gonna say "Why the hell would you ever consider unrooting?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are all un-rootable, but once you go from S-ON to S-OFF that's a one-way trip. Several people have reported exchanging their devices after returning to stock with an S-OFF bootloader without issue.
This is returning to T-Mobile, though, it's questionable if HTC will accept a return directly of a device with an S-OFF bootloader.
@eon said:
-So some people suggest ClockworkMod Recovery, others don't seem to care. I ask, is there any real difference between the two? And why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned, upgrade to the official Clockworkmod recovery as soon as possible. From here on out it will be the only supported recovery.
@eon said:
-Also, which are the best/most stable roms you would suggest? Because I've done the trial and error thing before, comparing several different roms, and I never seemed to find anything worthwhile. (Also, I checked CyanogenMod's site and either I'm blind or they don't have a single rom for the MT4GS)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm working on releasing the updated version of Bulletproof right now, actually, and you'll like that one. Should be out in a day or so. The original developer is moving on and is handing it off to me.
I've just spent the last....dunno how long working at it, and needed to take 5 and clear my head. Cruised through the XDA MT4GS forums as i'm winding down for a break, and you caught me at a good time to give a response.
CM7 just got officially put on hold, but with your interest in the camera you probably wouldn't have gone for that right away. It's an alpha release, and we are very excited to have official CM support for the device, but since Ice Cream Sandwich ( Android 4.0 ) source code was just released, the CM team is focusing on that and it's likely to be a while before the CM7 for our phone sees an update.
Honestly, i'm more excited that they are focusing so exculsively on Ice Cream Sandwich, because that means a lot more for all the phones and devices beyond just our own version of CM7.
I'll leave other ROM recommendations to others who will surely come through here and tell you more about them.
@eon said:
-I think you somewhat answer the question regarding features of the stock camera being available after rooting. But I need to know: After rooting, is the camera going to be the same as the stock one, including ALL available features (SweepShot, ClearShot HDR, Burst Shot, Macro, Night...)? And is that camera program featured within all rooted roms, or does it have to be installed seperately?
-And ditto that question in regards to G-Maps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much all of the ROMs will support both the Camera app (in its entirety, included in the ROM) and Google maps.
The alpha port of CM7 is the only one (pretty sure) that doesn't support the camera, because the camera is tied into the sense frameworks. CM7 has no Sense components to it, and it was stated very clearly in the thread that it never will. The CM team and their ROM is worth losing the camera app over to a lot of people, and they are the lone exception to the "no camera app" stigma.
Keeping the camera app is one of the things that has been driving development around here, and very few people were willing to use or invest time in making a ROM that would exclude it.
I should take this time to point out that the stock gps configurations are, well, flat out wrong. Misconfigured, and it doesn't work well.
Myself and another developer independently spent a lot of time working on fixing this issue, and when we realized what each other were doing we also realized that we had the piece of the puzzle the other needed to make it work.
We released a collaboration that solved the problem, which you can find here: GPS lock too long or not at all? Try this
If you want to know how my half of the puzzle works, that thread will explain it in almost excrutiating detail. I recommend my patch over the other developers, as he is no longer with us and I will only be continuing support in my thread.
@eon said:
-And finally this may seem like a n00b question, but I've still never gotten a clear answer: How/When can a Nandroid Backup be performed? I know that it would be a safety precaution in case I ever f*cked up my device and needed to restore, but I've never been able to find clear, accurate, and relevant instructions on how to nandroid backup or even nandroid restore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just cruise through my backup thread. Post 1 is an adb method, post 2 is the nandroid method. If you have any questions, post them in that thread and help us try to maintain some kind of order (hah!)
@eon said:
So I apologize for asking so many questions, especially since I imagine they seem redundant and novice. However, I have rooted phones before so I'm not a complete n00b; I'm just trying to be VERY thorough this time around, to avoid any potential for error. Thank you in advance for your time.
-Colton
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, don't ever worry about asking too many or too long of a question, as long as you don't post the question itself as a new thread in the development section of the MT4GS forums.
I'm sorry to hear it took such a bad experience for you to become as cautious as you are, but now that you're long past it you are much better off.
I'd much rather see someone ask questions, read some stuff, ask more questions, and then act on knowledge then just go and do and then say "I broke it, what do I do".
I'm happy to help either way, but if the information is there already then reading it before you start is much better then retroactively. Save the "how do I fix it" for uncharted territory learning things that aren't already common knowledge.
Again, part of the problem is that information is so convoluted because we keep adding to it as we learn new things. You can't really structure it before you know what it's going to be.
Myself and a few others have been trying to put effort into organizing things, but it's really a monumental task and i'd like to develop new things more so then catalogue what we already know. It's a crappy balance, but I try to put equal time to developing and organizing/answering questions.
I hope this helped you out some, I know I didn't completely cover it all but it should give you some things to chew on and help you sift through the data by spending more time on the relevant parts. Even then it's still a lot that you should know.
Don't be afraid to ask questions, one of the reasons I go into such depth is because people can correct me precisely where i'm wrong if I am about something.
You learn more when you're willing to admit you don't know something, then to pretend you do for whatever reason. Asking the right questions depends on being honest about what you do and don't know with yourself, so fire away.
I've got to get outside for a few minutes, then get back into coding, but someone else will come along and add to this soon enough.
Take care!

Well I definitely very much appreciate your prompt, and very detailed response to my many questions. I've been reading over what you've written plus the links over the past day. The main issue I have is digging through each thread looking for relevant information, while trying not to get sucked into each and every tangent post/link/info. I lost track of how many hours I've wasted reading irrelevant info which I initially thought actually had something to do with what I was after. And now a day later, I have my desk covered in reference notes (which are no longer comprehensible) and I'm more confused than I was before.
There are plenty of issues I have with forums in general. First of which being, organization seldom exists. Its like going into a library with a single question about 'how to change a tire', and leaving with 15 random, heavy books on quantum theory and black-matter, because apparently someone implied they were somehow related (I'm referring to other people, not you). Discouraging to say the least. I thought this would be more black-and-white; more simple. When 'Android' was new, rooting was simple (less ways to re-invent the wheel).
I'm walking away from this for now. The headache isnt worth it (I literally feel like I got skull-f*cked by god himself). But thank you for your help and feedback.

micahman said:
I just got the MT4GS after being a long time MT4G user and I'm wondering if it is worth it to root as there is currently no CM or stable Virtuous Rom which is what I used on the MT4G. Any helpful opinions are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is DEFINITELY worth it... Root away my friend and welcome to the MT4GS family. This phones kicks ass and we are expanding every day like wildfire
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

@eon said:
...
I'm walking away from this for now. The headache isnt worth it (I literally feel like I got skull-f*cked by god himself). But thank you for your help and feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah, yea, XDA is like that all over - just the nature of the beast.
This is not the quick-answer type of home, yet from a developers point of view there is no better place on the internet for android/phone development information and help.
It really does all start here, and the journey of discovery is much more prized and worthwhile then the actual end result. In that respect the way XDA is, is the way it should be.
Sometimes the best way to come to grips with something is to forget about it for a little while. Let your mind work it over running in the background, and when you bring it back into focus you'll have a better hold on what you need, and what you still have to learn.
Again, feel free to ask any questions you may have and we'll do the best we can to get you set in the right direction.

Ya, it was like mass overload the other day; it was like trying to make a PBJ sandwhich, then realizing I have to bake my own bread from scratch, grind up peanuts into butter, and somehow pick my own berries for jam, etc...
Anyways, I read over some of those topics again and some of it makes a little more sense. But still, some of those threads are so damn long, Im not gonna read each and every post from top to bottom of the thread, at least not yet. But the main issue I've realized is definitely going to be a problem is the fact that turning S-Off is irreversible. There is absolutely no method of turning S-On after its been turned off, which doesnt seem to make any sense; I figure, if you are able to flip a light-switch on, its only obvious you should be able to flip the switch off. So why is the 'S-Off' method a one-way path? And is this problem going to be fixed?
I read a bunch of articles and tutorials on 'unrooting' the MT4GS, and each one says that it will change the phone back to the stock factory condition it was in before rooting. Of course, once I scroll down and keep reading comments, everyone says that there isnt a way to turn "S-ON". SO, how the hell would someone be able to root their phone while still ever having the option to do a warranty exchange? Unrooting is great cause it gets you most the way there. But I've been reading that when T-Mobile recieves the phone, they send it to HTC for inspection/repair, and thats where they look at all the software/firmware/h-boot/recovery/S-ON Versions to make sure they are at factory specs. So once again, even though it is possible to "unroot" the MT4GS if need be, it still impossible to fully go back to factory standard (which is exactly what I was worried about).
Thats ****ty cause I was actually willing and ready to start rooting via theunlockr.com's method (cause its a hell of a lot easier than any tutorial in these forums, it does it the same way, its just easier to understand). BUT, that S-ON/S-OFF snafu is enough for me to reconsider. As I'm sure there are tons of benefits to rooting and therefore I may not ever want to unroot, I still may need to for the sake of the warranty exchange. And believe me when I say that I NEED to have the ability to exchange; I've had to exchange the MT4GS 5 times within 3 consecutive weeks because each one I recieved in the mail had some physical manufacturer defects. And since the most recent replacement is a refurb, I need to leave that Warranty-Door open in case I need to exchange.... again.
By the way, I forgot why S-Off was required in the first place. Is it possible to remain rooted without S-Off???

@eon said:
Ya, it was like mass overload the other day; it was like trying to make a PBJ sandwhich, then realizing I have to bake my own bread from scratch, grind up peanuts into butter, and somehow pick my own berries for jam, etc...
Anyways, I read over some of those topics again and some of it makes a little more sense. But still, some of those threads are so damn long, Im not gonna read each and every post from top to bottom of the thread, at least not yet. But the main issue I've realized is definitely going to be a problem is the fact that turning S-Off is irreversible. There is absolutely no method of turning S-On after its been turned off, which doesnt seem to make any sense; I figure, if you are able to flip a light-switch on, its only obvious you should be able to flip the switch off. So why is the 'S-Off' method a one-way path? And is this problem going to be fixed?
I read a bunch of articles and tutorials on 'unrooting' the MT4GS, and each one says that it will change the phone back to the stock factory condition it was in before rooting. Of course, once I scroll down and keep reading comments, everyone says that there isnt a way to turn "S-ON". SO, how the hell would someone be able to root their phone while still ever having the option to do a warranty exchange? Unrooting is great cause it gets you most the way there. But I've been reading that when T-Mobile recieves the phone, they send it to HTC for inspection/repair, and thats where they look at all the software/firmware/h-boot/recovery/S-ON Versions to make sure they are at factory specs. So once again, even though it is possible to "unroot" the MT4GS if need be, it still impossible to fully go back to factory standard (which is exactly what I was worried about).
Thats ****ty cause I was actually willing and ready to start rooting via theunlockr.com's method (cause its a hell of a lot easier than any tutorial in these forums, it does it the same way, its just easier to understand). BUT, that S-ON/S-OFF snafu is enough for me to reconsider. As I'm sure there are tons of benefits to rooting and therefore I may not ever want to unroot, I still may need to for the sake of the warranty exchange. And believe me when I say that I NEED to have the ability to exchange; I've had to exchange the MT4GS 5 times within 3 consecutive weeks because each one I recieved in the mail had some physical manufacturer defects. And since the most recent replacement is a refurb, I need to leave that Warranty-Door open in case I need to exchange.... again.
By the way, I forgot why S-Off was required in the first place. Is it possible to remain rooted without S-Off???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not permanently. you'd have to temp-root every time you reboot.
Revolutionary is about the easiest way to root a phone in existence so I'm not sure why you're so scared... assuming you have adb working, it's literally as easy as plugging your phone in and opening a single file in the Revolutionary zip archive. everything is done for you. as long as you don't download their faulty recovery (it will ask you if you want to... just say no), it's literally the easiest rooting method available that I've ever seen.
don't make it too complicated. I certainly believe in having all of your bases covered, especially when it comes to potentially screwing up a $500 bundle of plastic, metal and silicone, but rooting is not a big deal anymore.
many people will tell you that they have received warranty replacements after sending in S-OFF/rooted phones. my best guess would be that HTC/Tmo randomly pick phones to "thoroughly check" and the majority don't receive this type of treatment.. and even if they find a rooted device, there's no telling whether or not they will deny your replacement.
I received a warranty replacement (faulty hardware buttons, the leds never turned off) for my gal's rooted MT4GS simply by installing the stock rom and recovery, but still with Revolutionary's hboot installed. No issues whatsoever. I'm not saying it's "right" and I'm not guaranteeing you the same result, just offering my first-hand experience.
here's how you can obtain perma-root and s-off in ~10 minutes. no complicated guides:
www.revolutionary.io
download installer, enter serial # to get your code.
open archive and find the installer... let it run.
when it's done, you'll be rooted and s-off with a custom hboot. say "no" to the download recovery option and manually flash the official CWM recovery, or modaco's 4.0.0.9 recovery image. (either should be fine, although roms are going to start coming out that may have issues with the 4.0.0.9 modaco recovery so cwm is probably your best bet)
if not being able to flip the S-OFF switch back to S-ON at this point is something you can't get over, this isn't for you. personally, I spent $500 on this phone and I'm going to do whatever the hell I want to it, and if TMO and HTC have a problem with that, I will happily take my business elsewhere.

Its not rooting that I'm worried about, its the possibility of having to do (yet another) warranty exchange and being caught sending back a warranty-void device. And since I just found out that my premium phone insurance extends my warranty for an indefinite amount of time, I imagine that i will undoubtedly be exchanging this phone sometime in the future. I can only hope that by then either the S-Off thing has been fixed or T-Mobile announces they no longer care. I can see both happening, honestly.
Rooting is going to be the easy part, if/when I decide to do it. The last things I havent yet figured out are:
-Which Rom(s) I'm going to try. When I compare most roms side by side, they all seem vaguely identical. I remember Cyanogen having the option of fully customized visual aspects/themes, as well as tons of settings/features that werent offered through other roms. But the problem with CM is that, as you said before, the several camera options/modes in the stock rom are not being used by CM. I'm looking for a rom that is, above all, stable; lightweight/fast; includes all camera features of stock rom; and if apps like gmaps wont be included, I'd like to be able to find something that is comparable, or even better if possible. If not, I really hope the market allows gmaps to be installed on a rooted device (a while back on my rooted phone, the install of gmaps would always fail) Also, you had mentioned that you were nearing completion of a Rom of your own, so I might read up on that as well.
-I read up on that article on micro sd cards regarding speed comparisons, so I ended up running the benchmark app on my pc and found that my SanDisk 8bg Class 4 was (apparently) faster than my currently used Samsung 16gb Class 2, which sucks cause I like having more space than I use. But anyways it got me thinking, I realize that speed is important for file-transfers and also running apps that have been moved to the sd, but I could have sworn I remember someone talking about how they had rooted and then installed their OS/Rom onto their SD card instead of the phone itself. I dont know if I read that wrong or not. And if that was accurate, then I want to know if there is truly any benefit from doing that or not.
-Also, in regards to sd cards, I remember last year when I had a rooted MT3G with Amon Ra's recovery, there was an option to throw in partitions. Almost everyone I talked with on here told me to add a partition. Then after a few updates to the recovery, I noticed new options in the partition section: Ext.2, Ext.3, and Ext.4 as well as the options to select the partition size and "swap" size. I never did understand what exactly the difference (if any) between "Ext.2, Ext. 4.... etc" was.
And as far as the "swap" size, I remember there being a LOT of debate over what exactly this number should be. Some people started suggesting outrageously high numbers, while others explicitly explained to not do that, because apparently the lower the number the faster it becomes. Ok, so if thats the basic concept, great. But I still never did find any reliable information regarding "swap" size.
So ya, those are the final questions/issues that have been bugging me. Any advice/help is greatly appreciated.

How to flash a rom with s on????

I wanted to root my htc one s so i could put a custom rom on it. I unlocked the bootloader and then I flashed a custom recovery. So i rebooted into twrp recovery and wipe data, cache and dalvik and then proceeded to install cm 10. It installed and then i installed the gaaps which also installed sucesfully. So i rebooted and now all it does it just goes to a white screen with the htc logo. I did have s on but does that make a diffrence. I also tried making s off but it doesnt work since i have no rom.
Help!! My phone is basically useless now!!!

genardas said:
I wanted to root my htc one s so i could put a custom rom on it. I unlocked the bootloader and then I flashed a custom recovery. So i rebooted into twrp recovery and wipe data, cache and dalvik and then proceeded to install cm 10. It installed and then i installed the gaaps which also installed sucesfully. So i rebooted and now all it does it just goes to a white screen with the htc logo. I did have s on but does that make a diffrence. I also tried making s off but it doesnt work since i have no rom.
Help!! My phone is basically useless now!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously didn't read/followed the install instructions. Read it again.
Then please tell me what you missed.
Verstuurd van mijn One S met Tapatalk

Seems you didn't flash the boot.img separately...
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

Ah, now he doesn't have to look troby--:laugh: jk

I just downloaded someone else backup and restored to it all is well!
Sent from my SGH-T999

That's the easy way--you cheated--
If you don't learn not only how to do it correctly, but why, you will always have trouble and have to rely on nice guys like troby86 for help. They won't always be there. Most of us spent dozens, if not more hours, learning all this stuff. And continue to learn. Since you invested a lot of money in the phone, you should spend some time learning how to flash stuff safely/correctly.
Sorry for preaching, but just trying to prevent you from having more and maybe unrecoverable phone issues--

rugmankc said:
That's the easy way--you cheated--
If you don't learn not only how to do it correctly, but why, you will always have trouble and have to rely on nice guys like troby86 for help. They won't always be there. Most of us spent dozens, if not more hours, learning all this stuff. And continue to learn. Since you invested a lot of money in the phone, you should spend some time learning how to flash stuff safely/correctly.
Sorry for preaching, but just trying to prevent you from having more and maybe unrecoverable phone issues--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Care to explain/show us what you mean?

I don't know anyone's skill level by just reading posts like on this thread. You may know more than me on Android. And, the info is not, and never has been in one place in Forum or Web.
Here is a link in our Forum with a tutorial on rooting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2140967
You may already know all that.
A lot can be gleaned from tutorials and videos on web like youtube.
I used all those sources and bookmarked dozens of links till I started to piece it together and have it make sense.
I had to Google Android terms just to find out what rom/nandroid/flash etc even meant. At least as far as Android was concerned. I was familiar with terms like those from engineering classes 40 years ago. But, take on new meaning here.
Anyway, I believe all should download and install Android SDK and become familiar with adb/fastboot. Most experienced users will agree it is best and safest way to flash boots/radios etc. You can also push and pull files from and to phone. Some restrictions apply to those things like flashing radios which depends on your phones hboot on our One S. I was lucky with an early phone and low hboot and can do almost anything with or without adb/fastboot. But, being able to use it can help getting things to phone when other means won't work. Getting in trouble is easy but "understanding" how to get out of it is essential.
My second piece of advice would be to skim threads and find ones that offer this info from others asking these questions.
I would always have a nandroid and a recent sdcard bu on your pc.
Read the threads OP page completely and first and last 20 pages, at least, of the thread. Even after doing this for years, I have done this and have read posts that alerted me not to flash the latest, listed rom version or some other file on OP. Some threads, I believe, still don't state if rom is for s3 or s4. Maybe listed kernel had some issues not found on OP, but 10 pages back into thread.
Also, when flashing new rom or update with framework or major changes always wipe all including System 3X. Once or three times is up for debate. But, I do this and rarely have ever had flashing issues on any phone/rom.
Flash Image GUI is an app from Market that lets you flash boots independent of hboot. Never used it. But, many swear by it. Still think when you are in real trouble, adb/fastboot experience can be a life saver.
This is all pretty basic so don't know if I wasted time typing this. And not sure what exactly you wanted. No one will write a book on how to do all this flashing stuff. So, like mentioned you have to gather it from a lot of different places. We have become a society of "give it too me now and I don't want to know how you didi it".
But, maybe someone just starting will have some of this help in some way.

Believe me I looked up guides and guides and couldn't find what was wrong. Still don't know how to do it right but it's fine since I just sold the phone. On the s3 it's so much simpler u root it via some program by picking a file. Then just flash roms through recovery. This phone I thought you just unlock the bootloader and then just install super user and that's it. Just flash roms through recovery. But then some stuff came up with s on and s off and I tried figuring that out but I just got lost at hex editor. Anyways it doesn't matter just know to not get HTC phones.
Sent from my SGH-T999

HTC has made it harder than some other phones. I did have a Nexus One before the One S. Google, but still HTC. Still, I think is important to understand a lot of this. Since, you can get in trouble on any phone.
The procedures you are describing are what was/is called one-click rooting. Became popular on Nexus One. But, some found rooting by that method restricted them on doing certain things they wanted to do and troubleshooting and getting out of soft bricks. I think they could not use either adb or fastboot and needed that to restore phone.
Anyway, good luck on new phone--

rugmankc said:
I don't know anyone's skill level by just reading posts like on this thread. You may know more than me on Android. And, the info is not, and never has been in one place in Forum or Web.
Here is a link in our Forum with a tutorial on rooting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2140967
You may already know all that.
A lot can be gleaned from tutorials and videos on web like youtube.
I used all those sources and bookmarked dozens of links till I started to piece it together and have it make sense.
I had to Google Android terms just to find out what rom/nandroid/flash etc even meant. At least as far as Android was concerned. I was familiar with terms like those from engineering classes 40 years ago. But, take on new meaning here.
Anyway, I believe all should download and install Android SDK and become familiar with adb/fastboot. Most experienced users will agree it is best and safest way to flash boots/radios etc. You can also push and pull files from and to phone. Some restrictions apply to those things like flashing radios which depends on your phones hboot on our One S. I was lucky with an early phone and low hboot and can do almost anything with or without adb/fastboot. But, being able to use it can help getting things to phone when other means won't work. Getting in trouble is easy but "understanding" how to get out of it is essential.
My second piece of advice would be to skim threads and find ones that offer this info from others asking these questions.
I would always have a nandroid and a recent sdcard bu on your pc.
Read the threads OP page completely and first and last 20 pages, at least, of the thread. Even after doing this for years, I have done this and have read posts that alerted me not to flash the latest, listed rom version or some other file on OP. Some threads, I believe, still don't state if rom is for s3 or s4. Maybe listed kernel had some issues not found on OP, but 10 pages back into thread.
Also, when flashing new rom or update with framework or major changes always wipe all including System 3X. Once or three times is up for debate. But, I do this and rarely have ever had flashing issues on any phone/rom.
Flash Image GUI is an app from Market that lets you flash boots independent of hboot. Never used it. But, many swear by it. Still think when you are in real trouble, adb/fastboot experience can be a life saver.
This is all pretty basic so don't know if I wasted time typing this. And not sure what exactly you wanted. No one will write a book on how to do all this flashing stuff. So, like mentioned you have to gather it from a lot of different places. We have become a society of "give it too me now and I don't want to know how you didi it".
But, maybe someone just starting will have some of this help in some way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1000
The first time I tried to flash a ROM on my phone I softbricked it since I didn't follow directions. I searched the web for at least a couple of hours trying to figure out 1) what happened to my phone and 2) How to fix it. I eventually found a thread on here and a separate thread on another Forum with the solution to my problem. I learned UNIX in school so I had some knowledge with the commands to help me. I'm not a big fan of the All-in-One tools because as the poster above me said you don't learn and are bound to make the same mistake as a result. The knowledge also transfers across whatever Android device you're using so I think it's quite relevant to learn as much as you can

IntelligentAj said:
+1000
The first time I tried to flash a ROM on my phone I softbricked it since I didn't follow directions. I searched the web for at least a couple of hours trying to figure out 1) what happened to my phone and 2) How to fix it. I eventually found a thread on here and a separate thread on another Forum with the solution to my problem. I learned UNIX in school so I had some knowledge with the commands to help me. I'm not a big fan of the All-in-One tools because as the poster above me said you don't learn and are bound to make the same mistake as a result. The knowledge also transfers across whatever Android device you're using so I think it's quite relevant to learn as much as you can
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand what there is to learn. Could you enlighten me as to what I am supposed to learn. From what I gather, all you are supposed to do when flashing a rom is flash the boot.img, factory reset and wipe data/cache a few times, install the rom and then wipe cache again. Isn't it all done then?

Well, I guess you got it figured out and I wasted my time on a lengthy post--

eLiTeOneS said:
... factory reset and wipe data/cache a few times, install the rom and then wipe cache again. Isn't it all done then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using Android on several phones and tablets for a while, but there's one thing i still don't understand. Why should i wipe more than once before installing a rom? I often read that, never did that and never had a problem. And: ain't factory reset and wipe data/cache the same?
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

That is topic of discussion and disagreement for many. Most devs will recommend multi wipes. I have had on occasion issues with one wipe. Never with multi. If you don't wipe System, some remnants of previous rom can be left behind. Same for only one wipe for data. Caches I normally only do once or twice. All this is very quick to do. My analogy is doing a quick fomat as opposed to a full format on a disk. It is my opinion that one wipe does not get it all. Others can have a different opinion. But, I will continue to wipe all multi times. After 3 years and hundreds of successful flashes, I don't plan to change. If i have an issue I can't fix, normally an sdcard reformat works. Some files there are tied to the phone also and if become bad/corrupted can still cause issues even with multi wipes. I have read many posts where someone with problems got sorted after multi wipes and/or an sdcard reformat.
All imho--
You may continue to have no issues and great. My problem with the other poster is that after asking for advice and reading my post still thinks all you do is wipe data/caches, flash boot then rom and nothing else to know. My point is you need to read, read, read before flashing theses roms. You have an investment to protect. You also should know why you are doing things and there consequences and how to get out of trouble. I see many posts by people you just did what the other member mentioned, never read OP or any part of thread and wound up soft bricked, bootlooped etc. Not even paying attn to whether the rom was for an S3 or S4.
Again, I have no idea of anyones expertise here. And most know more than me. That is why I am cautious and respect tips/advice from more knowledgeable users. It took me a long time to force myself to learn adb/fastboot. Even with a lot of prodding by a much more learned member. Glad I finally did.
What I hate to see is someone asking a question answered one page back or "hey, just got phone. can someone give me a step by step on rooting/flashing. no I haven't read anything yet"
Anyway my 2 cents--
Sorry for rant, must be bored today--

rugmankc said:
That is topic of discussion and disagreement for many. Most devs will recommend multi wipes. I have had on occasion issues with one wipe. Never with multi. If you don't wipe System, some remnants of previous rom can be left behind. Same for only one wipe for data. Caches I normally only do once or twice. All this is very quick to do. My analogy is doing a quick fomat as opposed to a full format on a disk. It is my opinion that one wipe does not get it all. Others can have a different opinion. But, I will continue to wipe all multi times. After 3 years and hundreds of successful flashes, I don't plan to change. If i have an issue I can't fix, normally an sdcard reformat works. Some files there are tied to the phone also and if become bad/corrupted can still cause issues even with multi wipes. I have read many posts where someone with problems got sorted after multi wipes and/or an sdcard reformat.
All imho--
You may continue to have no issues and great. My problem with the other poster is that after asking for advice and reading my post still thinks all you do is wipe data/caches, flash boot then rom and nothing else to know. My point is you need to read, read, read before flashing theses roms. You have an investment to protect. You also should know why you are doing things and there consequences and how to get out of trouble. I see many posts by people you just did what the other member mentioned, never read OP or any part of thread and wound up soft bricked, bootlooped etc. Not even paying attn to whether the rom was for an S3 or S4.
Again, I have no idea of anyones expertise here. And most know more than me. That is why I am cautious and respect tips/advice from more knowledgeable users. It took me a long time to force myself to learn adb/fastboot. Even with a lot of prodding by a much more learned member. Glad I finally did.
What I hate to see is someone asking a question answered one page back or "hey, just got phone. can someone give me a step by step on rooting/flashing. no I haven't read anything yet"
Anyway my 2 cents--
Sorry for rant, must be bored today--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm actually glad you told me all this. I've been through many bootloops, but I don't really see how learning A LOT about all of this is required. Don't you just need to fullwipe/cache after booting into recovery and then just recover your device? Sorry if I come across as arrogant or something, I'm really not trying to be. I have read around about this, but none of the sites/tutorials I went to discussed ANYTHING about spending a long time researching the matter. I thought it was as simple as following the instructions from Developers.

No problem. The actual steps are relatively simple. But, not all Dev's give all needed steps. Some leave out wiping System, as an example. My only point is not only know the steps but why you are doing them and what to do if you get into trouble. The threads are sprinkled with folks just doing the steps and getting into trouble and not knowing how to get out of it. Then they want the easy step by step to get out of trouble and still don't want to understand the why's of what they are doing.
As I mentioned, you may not be one of them. It is hard to ascertain someone's skill level or true meaning just by the post itself. So, my comments are just general fyi.
Since XDA is a development forum, there won't be extensive how to's. But the wiki's and stickies do contain a lot of info. And, scanning certain threads that have subject matter you are interested in can give a lot of insight also. Lots of You Tube videos too.
Good Luck--

rugmankc said:
No problem. The actual steps are relatively simple. But, not all Dev's give all needed steps. Some leave out wiping System, as an example. My only point is not only know the steps but why you are doing them and what to do if you get into trouble. The threads are sprinkled with folks just doing the steps and getting into trouble and not knowing how to get out of it. Then they want the easy step by step to get out of trouble and still don't want to understand the why's of what they are doing.
As I mentioned, you may not be one of them. It is hard to ascertain someone's skill level or true meaning just by the post itself. So, my comments are just general fyi.
Since XDA is a development forum, there won't be extensive how to's. But the wiki's and stickies do contain a lot of info. And, scanning certain threads that have subject matter you are interested in can give a lot of insight also. Lots of You Tube videos too.
Good Luck--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, it's just the way you put it unnerved me quite a lot. I mean, I don't see how there is a LOT of skill required to do this, isn't most of it common sense? I mean, that's how I approach many things; by figuring them out. But if I'm doing everything right, then there's no problem

Cool--
Sounds like you got it all figured. Didn't mean to upset. But, it is hard to read btwn lines on posts. Mine included So, sometimes things are not taken correctly.
In time you will see more of the posts that make some of us scratch our heads and wonder why the question was even asked.
For now have fun and Nandroid--and backup sdcard to PC. Those are very important things I still see some not doing--

rugmankc said:
Cool--
Sounds like you got it all figured. Didn't mean to upset. But, it is hard to read btwn lines on posts. Mine included So, sometimes things are not taken correctly.
In time you will see more of the posts that make some of us scratch our heads and wonder why the question was even asked.
For now have fun and Nandroid--and backup sdcard to PC. Those are very important things I still see some not doing--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I did one of them, but that was a silly mistake on my behalf. Anyway, if you were to backup your SD Card on your PC, what good would that do?