Software Use: Staying Legal - General Topics

I just bought an HTC X7501 Advantage Windows Mobile 6 PPC Phone. It's unlocked. I'm about to buy new phones from AT&T (as part of a service agreement) and I was thinking about getting the Samsung Blackjack (a Windows Mobile 5 Smartphone (not PPC). If I do this, will I be able to use software that I've purchased for my Advantage on my Blackjack? I can only use one phone at a time, so in my mind it doesn't seem like I'm violating any agreement by installing it on both but I wanted to check to be sure. Also, I'm not sure if PPC software will work on a smartphone.
Any help is appreciated. I just want to make sure this will work and be legal.
Thank you.

1)it will not work
2)it is not legal

whoster69 said:
I just bought an HTC X7501 Advantage Windows Mobile 6 PPC Phone. It's unlocked. I'm about to buy new phones from AT&T (as part of a service agreement) and I was thinking about getting the Samsung Blackjack (a Windows Mobile 5 Smartphone (not PPC). If I do this, will I be able to use software that I've purchased for my Advantage on my Blackjack? I can only use one phone at a time, so in my mind it doesn't seem like I'm violating any agreement by installing it on both but I wanted to check to be sure. Also, I'm not sure if PPC software will work on a smartphone.
Any help is appreciated. I just want to make sure this will work and be legal.
Thank you.
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Click to collapse
It depends on the licensing conditions. If theprogram is tied to a particular username, you can safely transfer it to your next machine, making sure you don't use it on your old. If it's tied to, say, the CPU ID, it can't be.
Also, read the license.

But I only use one machine at a time. You'd think it would be tied to the user.
Anyway... Thanks for the info. I'll plan accordingly. Maybe I'll just not buy as much software if I'm going to run into issues in using it on the device I want.

Please note: since PPCs (like Advantage) and Smartphones (like BlackJack) have different interfaces due to one having a touch screen and one not having it almost all apps have different versions for each.
Some programs only have versions for one or another.
Even if a program can run on both (sometimes it can't at all because of missing components) it would not display properly and would be uncomfortable to use on the device it was not designed for.
Finally, while it makes sense to you that a program would be locked to a user name, from commercial stand point it is much harder to pirate a peace of software that is locked to hardware ID (like IMEI or device serial) so the method is widely used.

I had that problem when I was using my Sony TH55 and my Sony UX50. I was able to install everything, but I had to write to each and every programmer stating my case. They were very helpful and they all gave me new passwords.
It was intoxicating because I had an average of 60-70 apps installed.
---

whoster69 said:
But I only use one machine at a time. You'd think it would be tied to the user.
Anyway... Thanks for the info. I'll plan accordingly. Maybe I'll just not buy as much software if I'm going to run into issues in using it on the device I want.
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Click to collapse
It all depends on the licensing conditions. In general, if it's locked to your username, not otherwise stated, you can transfer your old license to your new device if you don't use the old device any more.
With IMEI / CPU ID-based solutions, you must contact the dev for a new license (unless you change your IMEI, which may be preferable if you have tons of IMEI-locked apps).

Related

"Legal" apsects to WM6

Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
ChildOTK said:
Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue is highly debatable. OS for Mobile devices come preinstalled and can not purchased separately for upgrading. this is quite unlike the OS for desktops where you can readily buy a new OS or upgrade an existing one. Your new device comes pre installed with an operating system so you have initially paid for it. therefore it is safe to say that only in case of mobile devices 100% buyers have paid for their OS. This is not so with desktops. Now comes the tricky bit. Do you have the legal right to upgrade? Since M$ does not sell an upgraded OS for such devices, they are infact not incurring any loss of revenue if a user is upgrading. If he can not upgrade it is wrong to suppose that he will rush out to buy a new one. However it appears that it is the cell cos who are behind M$ move. When people who upgrade seek tech assistance it does creat problems.... they do not have the expertise to handle these issues neither are they interested in upgrading the devices themselves!
Ok, I just don't want some MS agent to some and fine me for some rediculous reason or another....
Thanks.
There are rumours that M$ will be selling WM6 as an upgrade... which would give a reason as to why they waited til now to ask us to take down our ftp.
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Click to collapse
Hmmm... v interesting article, thanks
Ya, the worst they do, only if your hosting the files, is send an email. (trust me, I know) They will not hunt you down!
hahahaha, trust you. Remember theirs always a first time. hehehe
f??k em
this what i think of ms... hehehe
Our devices come with a licence for "Windows Mobile".
WM6 clearly comes within this
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Click to collapse
Only with couple of OEMs. I checked with Imate but they have no intention of providing upgrades. Thats it.
I paid my Qtek 9000 about 1.000 Euro,and I think that it is my decision what I want to do with it...maybe install Symbian on it..? I think that nothing is gonna happend so far as WM6 stays "open source"..Difference about upgrade and new Jwrightmcps platform is evident...I downloaded Jwrightmcps WM6 from here and it is totally new platform..with some bugs which will be solved,but beautiful and rich functional,..If they in Mics...attempt to make update that would be just carefull minor upgrade of WM5...isnt it? Any problem what potentionally could be is about using their name so I suggest to rename new platform in something different...XDA 1 perhaps...
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
tin2404 said:
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try mortplayer. Its good. Google it and you will get it.
The Symbian cellphones seem to be so legal that you can never upgrade them to the new OS version or modify the ROM.
But M$ knows how to deal with the market.M$ disregards whether WM6 upgrating is legal or not.So more people will buy WM phones instead of buying Symbian ones.
Almost 90% of computers in China are running illegal Windows because of the M$'s neglect of them.No computers are running Windows in developing countries will be a real disaster to M$.
symbian & UIQ does not have a ROM...it is completly based on JAVA platform....and...yes....there is a plenty of programs ( .sis) for upgrading platform.but it is not an issue here...the issue is that should we be concerned about MS policy to prossecute everything and everybody..we can see,Universal 6 and Linux platforms grows day by day...and differences becomes bigger and bigger...Developers here are running "light years" infront of MS and they in MS will "fight back"...Linux is not a problem...Problem is (or will be) "Windows Media Player"..."Outlook"..."Internet Explorer"...etc.etc...because these names are licenced by them and they WILL focus on that fact...and China is special case...it is potentional industrial giant and it is the biggest future market so it is normal that if you want success on that vast market you will "blink on one eye"...(Yahoo and Google did that as we saw in near past when they agree to give Chinese goverment all data which they collect..remember...internet is not free in China(!))..but this is out of this topic..I think developers here should first do renaming applications and further developing them independetly..Indeed,technology and behavour is similar to all specific applications and there is no any philosophy (for example : IE and Firefox are similar browsers for one purpose and based on one technology,and differences are "slight" , but because of that,MS does not have right for any complain...)...I think here we should go that way...

Is this legal?

I know that you guys are getting flack from Microsoft, and I don't mind using something that they don't like. I don't mind voiding my Warranty either. (After all, I had to replace my HTC wizard's screen myself!) But is it legal to use a WM6 rom? I don't use pirated software, so I would avoid any Roms that have any, and I do like WM6.
But I'll ask it like this: Is installing WM6 like installing a pirated copy of XP on my PC? Or is it like modding Windows XP to do things similar to Vista?
Installing WM6 on a WM5 phone is the equivalent of installing XP on a machine that had windows 98 installed on it.
Yes, but in your example, was it a pirated version?
The reason I say this is because I've heard that the copy of WM6 that was first found was leaked from Microsoft. So then is it something that is legal?
Its a grey area. From my understanding, Microsoft released WM6 and gave phone manufacturers free upgrades to offer to customers. HTC intended to release them, but the carriers (AT&T and T-Mobile) chose not to so that they can push new phones on people who don't need them just so they can get WM6 (i.e. T-Mobile's Wing, which has the same power, features, etc as the Wizard, just a little thinner, a retarded blue color, and with WM6).
So I guess you can say, since WM6 isn't for sale, you didn't necessarily steal it, so its not illegal. Microsoft's main issue is the fact that cookers on this forum have taken WM6 and modified it to their liking, which they consider copyright infringement.
from my understanding, everyone paid already for it
Wares was sold, another are waiting to BE sold etc...
Grey area is what is working for they bills imo.
imagine whole process...since computer became home thing.
Are they poorer or richer now..?
Do we have to feel like sinners?
(i am not lawyer, you know..)
Then give me linux noW. For my Wizard.
Thanks for clearing that up! Now I don't feel bad about using it.
At Tech Ed, I cornered Microsoft's Pocket PC guy, and asked him the same thing. He also explained it for the same reasons up above.
He said Microsoft would have NO problem distributing the OS, except that they sign contracts with the carriers (T-Mobile, AT&T), and in those contracts, it says that they will give them the OS exclusively.
From a legal standpoint (I am not a lawyer), it seems like Microsoft has no problems distributing it, but if they did (or openly endorsed it), it would violate their contract with the carriers. Since I have no contract with the carriers, I have no problem using it.
Btwa -- The Microsoft guy also says that everyone here at xda-developers are bad-asses, and he reads the forum regularly.
swingheim said:
Btwa -- The Microsoft guy also says that everyone here at xda-developers are bad-asses, and he reads the forum regularly.
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Click to collapse
meh meh, we all are here to learn
Beta testers
Yeah, I bet the watch the forum for tips and ideas, then claim the cred for it
Ford Motor Company is working with Microsoft to develop a "Sync" system for cars and trucks. Lets you connect your phone, ipod, usb drive etc. to the Cars entertainment center. They recently flashed a bunch of the vehicles at my shop, with the latest upgrades. I cmplained to the guy, about my Wizard not syncing. After the flash he came over and asked to try my phone. Not only did it work, it was capable of streaming to the the sync system. This was the first time they had it working in the field. The guy was so excited he made phne calls telling everyone about it!! He wanted to buy my Wizard!! I told him about how we make our own ROM's and stuff. And he asked me if I knew about XDA-Developers?! He tld me that get great ideas, and free programs from there!! So yes microsoft does use this site!!
Jinto.Lin said:
I know that you guys are getting flack from Microsoft, and I don't mind using something that they don't like. I don't mind voiding my Warranty either. (After all, I had to replace my HTC wizard's screen myself!) But is it legal to use a WM6 rom? I don't use pirated software, so I would avoid any Roms that have any, and I do like WM6.
But I'll ask it like this: Is installing WM6 like installing a pirated copy of XP on my PC? Or is it like modding Windows XP to do things similar to Vista?
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Click to collapse
It's so illigal as hell!
Regards, Schmia
famewolf said:
Installing WM6 on a WM5 phone is the equivalent of installing XP on a machine that had windows 98 installed on it.
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Click to collapse
I'm seeing it more like hacking an XBOX2 firmware on to an original XBOX. The PC analogy doesn't work because there are other OS choices that could be used - Linux for example. The hardware isn't dependent on the software and can be purchased sperately.
But the PocketPC is like the XBOX where the firmware only works on that hardware and they are sold together and can only come together. You can't get the hardware without the software and add it later.
I say it's a Grey area but I ran into a Microsoft Rep at a training class and he was running WM6 on his Cingular 8125 and was all proud of it until I showed him my K-Jam running the Touch FW.
-Mc
hmm
come to think of it you would need a copy of the eula or any licence agreement with the os to actually know. Otherwise we are all guessing.
I looked at the license for my copy of WM5 and it did say it was only to be used with the device on which it was purchased and could not be rented, leased, or lent. But, yeah, I agree with Sandrobber.
mdhensley5 said:
I looked at the license for my copy of WM5 and it did say it was only to be used with the device on which it was purchased and could not be rented, leased, or lent. But, yeah, I agree with Sandrobber.
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Here is amy view as to what we are doing. The issue is not Microsoft, but our carriers who take a base OEM ROM and play with it to push their services and we end up with a less than optimal phone.
I do not use pirated software on principle, but I use the ROMs we cook and host elsewhere( not in this board) because I have tried and cannot buy the OS from MSFT directly. So If we could buy the software and get service, updates and Service packs, I am certain we would all be willing to pay for it.
I have Microsoft development folks who come to me with issues in their devices and I point them here. They love what we do "unnoficially".
But I kid you not we are a threat to the carriers and they are the ones pressuring the vendor to try to shut us down...
Be on the lookout for the new FCC guidelines which are part of the bandwith spectrum sale. They will allow us the end user to use our devices with any carrier and install ANY software we want in OUR phones.
Just use it
Seriously who cares? Just use it buddy! We all do so many illegal things in life. Illegal things do not always amount to being a criminal like recording a TV programme which is ok with billions of people but criminal according to the FBI but then isn't everything illegal according to the FBI?
I was at a Tmo call center the other day working and a HTC rep was there preaching about the wing. I asked him if we will ever be offered a WM6 download and he told me that there is instructions on the internet of how to do it if I look around.
schmia said:
It's so illigal as hell!
Regards, Schmia
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Click to collapse
u're such a dumbass

{Everyone} Help Fight For Unlocked Bootloaders

Finally today i had enough... I filed a formal complaint with the FTC against motorola and all other mobile device manufacturers out lining the cause and effect of these companies selling us devices that we are made to be only users of rather than owners and administrators the devices we purchased. Nothing will change until we make some one step in and set the rules, i am encouraging everyone here on xda to do the same ... here is a link to the example complaint i filed and the link to the appropriate form to be filed
http://t0dbld.blogspot.com/2011/03/m...otloaders.html
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.go...d.aspx?Lang=en
Here's some more food for though concerning smartphone security:
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/03/carrier-intransigence-harms-internet-security
Perhaps we can spin our complaint with this in mind.
Basically since smartphones are essentially computers, I feel we should insist on being able to do what we want with them - Dell, HP, etc can't object when I choose to replace Windows on my PC with Linux, neither should Moto, HTC, etc be able to determine what we can and cannot run.
Also, if my phone has HDMI out, I can easily envision using it as a media player long after it's served its time as a phone.
IMO, people would be far better off signing this petition which will be presented to Motorola to try and persuade them to change their bootloader policies as they have previously promised to do.
It is a direct request to the one organisation who can change the matters for the better - Motorola themselves.
And unlike this thread, it doesn't rely upon subjective argument of entitlement.
Step666 said:
IMO, people would be far better off signing this petition which will be presented to Motorola to try and persuade them to change their bootloader policies as they have previously promised to do.
It is a direct request to the one organisation who can change the matters for the better - Motorola themselves.
And unlike this thread, it doesn't rely upon subjective argument of entitlement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first of all is there any harm in both ? secondly i respectfully disagree, some one needs to be put in charge of these things and so far the only thing that governs tech is law suits, as noted above HP did loose to FTC when they tried to deny people from not using windows on there machines, also petitions although the preferred method of hippies and college students do not hold there weight in most courts, i do know from personal exp. as if you really wish i can show you my supreme court case in the state of Michigan and yes years prior we started with a neighborhood petition that didn't even hold up in the local commissions and courts. either way i have signed said petition but i feel that if we get the FTC involved it will help the Petition as eyes will be upon it.... ALSO please keep in mind this is not just motorola they just happen to be better than other companies, jsut like computers we should not have to hack anything for administrator privileges, or to wipe the device and load are own software
But on what grounds would the FTC uphold your complaint?
Just because jailbreaking etc is not illegal, that doesn't give you a right to be able to install custom ROMs onto your handset, nor does it automatically make the measures that companies like Motorola take to prevent modification of their handsets illegal.
You say that the FTC ruled against HP for preventing laptop owners from installing Linux - how come when I Google 'FTC HP Linux', I find nothing relating to that?
Step666 said:
But on what grounds would the FTC uphold your complaint?
Just because jailbreaking etc is not illegal, that doesn't give you a right to be able to install custom ROMs onto your handset, nor does it automatically make the measures that companies like Motorola take to prevent modification of their handsets illegal.
You say that the FTC ruled against HP for preventing laptop owners from installing Linux - how come when I Google 'FTC HP Linux', I find nothing relating to that?
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Click to collapse
this is not about jail breaking and if you make it about such it will not get looked at, this is about being sold a device that we are not given administrative right to or the ability to wipe and install any software we want on it.... You wouldn't stand for this on your home pc would you ?
Because the ruling was not about linux, it was about being forced to have windows and paying for the licensing, it became much bigger than just hp as well but it is there including the end results of hp having to offer it with out windows and to refund people's money that did not agree to windows terms and returned the license
t0dbld said:
this is about being sold a device that we are not given administrative right to or the ability to wipe and install any software we want on it...
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Click to collapse
Right, ok, fine.
But that detail aside, my question still remains unanswered - why would they rule in your favour on that basis?
In what way are you entitled to be able to completely wipe your phone and install whatever you want onto it?
t0dbld said:
Because the ruling was not about linux, it was about being forced to have windows and paying for the licensing, it became much bigger than just hp as well but it is there including the end results of hp having to offer it with out windows and to refund people's money that did not agree to windows terms and returned the license
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's different then - it's one thing for HP to force customers to pay the licence fee for a copy of Windows they don't need/want but no-one is being forced to pay for an Android licence here, Motorola et al's practices are not costing the end user money.
I'm just trying to understand why you believe the FTC would consider your complaint, let alone side against the manufacturers.
look dude your still not getting it and thats ok, do it or dont, try to help or dont, have a good day
only a matter of time b4 these guys realize locked bootloaders dont help any1..

If you were to use your phone for payment, would you use other than stock?

If you are going to use your phone for payments - which NFC payments is soon coming to UK in the next year and I'm sure other countries will follow - will you use other ROMs than what's on your phone when you bought it?
I prefer a beeter rom than nfc payments , for me phone is not a credit card
Nope, but I don't like the idea of using a phone to make payments anyway.
No
I wouldn't use the phone as a payment method, to me its just asking for trouble. Even if you were to use a stock ROM there's always a chance of people gaining aces through apps.
as i understand, payments will be limited to 10GBP at a time, so that may translate to $10 etc. Useful for travel cards too.
And no, I don't think apps would be able to get access at all - though, it's always up to you as the user to check the permissions the app asks for.
Of course apps will be able to access it. It's software (The NFC), and software is very dynamic. Any sort of software can be changed (via other software, which we classify as malware) to be unsafe.
Kailkti said:
Of course apps will be able to access it. It's software (The NFC), and software is very dynamic. Any sort of software can be changed (via other software, which we classify as malware) to be unsafe.
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Click to collapse
Well, actually, the NFC is hardware
And as the SIM Card is set to be used in the payment process, I'd imagine control would be tied down.
i dont like the idea of phones making payments either, more reason to worry and track unauthorized spending.
It seems I didn't really bring my point across clearly. Of course you know that hardware without software is junk right? What operates the hardware is the software, of course you know also. So what I'm saying is, any app, which is software, and may be malware, can affect the software managing the NFC. So in any case, it's not safe since android is so open. iOS/WP7 puts the NFC in a more ideal context.
Of course apps will be able to access it
Kailkti said:
It seems I didn't really bring my point across clearly. Of course you know that hardware without software is junk right? What operates the hardware is the software, of course you know also. So what I'm saying is, any app, which is software, and may be malware, can affect the software managing the NFC. So in any case, it's not safe since android is so open. iOS/WP7 puts the NFC in a more ideal context.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As to that last part... thats the old debate of security by obscurity there. I'm willing to bet its not so clear cut and I'd lean more towards an open platform myself.
At any rate, I'm uncomfortable about using my phone as a payment method as well but to humor the thread I'd say...depends on the rom. I'd use a custom rom as long as the community vouches for it.
Using Nefarious Fiat Currency worries me. I don't Think that I am going to opt-in to that service until I have too. Cash is King
Meh, it's a good concept although it doesn't take me longer than 4 seconds to get a credit card out to pay for whatever I'm buying; just because I have my phone in the opposite pocket doesn't give me a reason to use that.
I'm still going to have to carry a wallet around with me, the phone isn't really cutting anything down in terms of what I have to carry around with me.
On top of that, there's a higher chance of my phone being lost or stolen because i take that out of my pocket, put it down, and it could slip out of my pocket depending on what pants I'm wearing.
I don't think I'll ever use NFC. That is, until I can embed my driver's licence in my phone (which is the main reason why I carry a wallet).
I didn't even bother setting up a google account or the majority of Gapps (other than maps) so you already know how I feel about this subject.
naomispoon said:
I wouldn't use the phone as a payment method, to me its just asking for trouble. Even if you were to use a stock ROM there's always a chance of people gaining aces through apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you think about SQUARE credit card mag stripe reader accessory -- and their new payment network. From twitter founder Jack Dorsey, he intends it to be the next payment network.
i would never consider making payments with my phone, unless theres a slot somewhere where i can punch in my card number ... on the long run, to impose that as a reason for not alowing custom roms would be unreasonable, as its not really necesary to use THE PHONE to DIRECTLY buy stuff with it. after that,imo, iOS stands for one thing, wp7 for another, and android for nothing similar to them, or much more ( innovation wise ) than the other 2 os's.
I will never use my phone to pay for something.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

Blackphone opinions???

I ran into this article today and I wanted to see what the people on XDA think about it. This company is working on a Android phone that it's primary purpose is to protect the users privacy.
Here's the link: http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/1/1...nn-silent-circle-geeksphone-blackphone-launch
Read the article, watch the video and let me know what you think.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
Saw news about this and came here to seek out does any1 have opinions about it.
i wonder, does the safety come from hardware or is it the OS what makes this so safe.. if it is the OS, i hope some1 smart enough makes custom rom for this.
I really don't see how this phone is gonna change anything. Apps and websites have keyloggers, You still need a carrier to get service from and they have control of all your traffic. What about radio frequencies that can be intercepted, IP addresses, GPS chips sending signals to satellites, baseband and firmware are connected thru the cell towers of the carrier. I'm starting to think this phone is a scam.
They said nothing about how they're dealing with all this. They are probably using the whole NSA scandal momentum to fool people into believing they are safe if they buy this phone.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
I saw an article about this venture also. This is a good thing. If he gets press about this phone, maybe other venders will take notice and start building in privacy features as well. :good:
I don't see the need for new hardware here. If they really want to secure something, they could create a mod for Android, that could be installed on a variety of devices for example.
Besides, if they encrypt telephony, messages and stuff, they will need to be decrypted again - but the question is where and how? I bet they won't have any hardware encryption module and even if they do, it will make communication with other phones impossible. Software encryption means other phones will need to install some additional software to communicate with the Blackphone and it might be a bit inconvenient.
orangek3nny said:
I don't see the need for new hardware here. If they really want to secure something, they could create a mod for Android, that could be installed on a variety of devices for example.
Besides, if they encrypt telephony, messages and stuff, they will need to be decrypted again - but the question is where and how? I bet they won't have any hardware encryption module and even if they do, it will make communication with other phones impossible. Software encryption means other phones will need to install some additional software to communicate with the Blackphone and it might be a bit inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
Andronote3 said:
That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
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Click to collapse
I think you are missing the point. As you or I may not NEED this kind of security, I'm sure you can think of someone who does.
Obviously, there would be two levels of privacy/security... Connections between 2 black phones and everything else. So who utilize a black phone? How about corporations and governments? Law offices, professional sports teams, or doctors and hospitals.
Now, even though I do not NEED this, if it was affordable, I would heavily consider it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
JamieFL said:
I think you are missing the point. As you or I may not NEED this kind of security, I'm sure you can think of someone who does.
Obviously, there would be two levels of privacy/security... Connections between 2 black phones and everything else. So who utilize a black phone? How about corporations and governments? Law offices, professional sports teams, or doctors and hospitals.
Now, even though I do not NEED this, if it was affordable, I would heavily consider it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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I understand what you are saying and I completely agree with you. It looks like a device that corporations and the government would "benefit" more than regular users. Either way, It won't fix 90% of all the problems people face when it comes to staying safe against privacy/security breaches. I truly believe that they are using the whole NSA scandal momentum to make people believe that they are safe/secured if they buy this phone.
P.S: Nice quotes.
I saw this phone.
It isn't an answer to every privacy issue.
What its an answer to is, not having to agree to an android apps permissions to gain access to the app.
These apps don't make their money off the app sales, they make their money sending information to retailers.
Retailers own the world.
The question I still pose is... What's wrong with retailers knowing where you are?
There's nothing you can do about the government. They won't let us make things that are government proof, nor would they (The retailers ) want to.
But, what's wrong with these apps fine tuning my specific desires to my Location?
You can't stop people from stealing your identity. The hacker/firewall paradox is, for every walk you build, they will build a taller ladder.
The only thing really close to full privacy in data sending is, that light source that sends data. It's a light bulb, and the light has data in it, a sensor receives it. It can be held within the walls of a room. But that only effects a closed circuit type system. If that light source is connected to the Internet, then game over.
Why do you think record companies and movie companies keep their computer systems offline and deal in only physical media? A hacker will get into anything I'd you give him the tools and time.
This phone gives a sense of security that is non existant
You've Just Been Tapatold ♧♢dbombROMv3.4♤♡
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SaintCity86 said:
I saw this phone.
It isn't an answer to every privacy issue.
What its an answer to is, not having to agree to an android apps permissions to gain access to the app.
These apps don't make their money off the app sales, they make their money sending information to retailers.
Retailers own the world.
The question I still pose is... What's wrong with retailers knowing where you are?
There's nothing you can do about the government. They won't let us make things that are government proof, nor would they (The retailers ) want to.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2658527
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nailed it
The problem is Android itself. Thanks to Xprivacy, it's a lot easier to control what leaks out of your device. Personally I'd rather see more encryption mechanisms than this. FFOS seems to be on the right path
There Is nothing you can do to stop identity theft.
Nothing.
And there is nothing you can do to do the government from tapping your lines.
You want a safer form of communicating, send Voice recordings over text.
That's an entirety separate warrant, and harder to get. Other than that. It's hopeless
You've Just Been Tapatold ♧♢dbombROMv3.4♤♡
My Theme ( Taking Requests )
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2658527
d1rX said:
FFOS seems to be on the right path
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I think you mean FOSS[1] = Free and Open Source Software. Anyway, I fully agree, in fact, that is the ONLY way. Closed source encryption programs can't be 100% trusted by definition. There might be security flaws, intentional or not.
Anyway. the NSA has backdoors to every operating system[2], so if you're really a target, they get you. Also, there are more than enough security holes in the layers under the operating system[3].
I think what these phones are supposed to do is bring end-to-end encryption for e.g. industry users so they don't get spied on. The NSA and the US government can get their hands on encryption keys for servers like in Lavabits case[4]. But this is the transport encryption. The data is, if not otherwise secured, available in plain text on the servers of providers. This also means, the officials can decrypt ANY data that comes in, not just the one of actual targets.
Now, end-to-end encryption makes sure even the provider can't see your data in plain text because you encrypt and decrypt it on your device. What Blackphone does is, it uses the apps from Silent Circle, a closed source encryption programm for VoIP and messages. Although the owner of that company is the well trusted cryptographer Phil Zimmerman, one can never be sure.
That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
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You can install and use Silent Circle on any(ok, a lot of) phone(s). Just make sure you don't have additional malicious software installed. Any yes, it costs $100/year or so. And you get a subscription for SpiderOak, sort of a Dropbox but they encrypt the data before uploading. Any you get a better overview over what app uses what permissions. A few extra tweaks basically.
Alternative: Android Phone with CyanogenMod/Replica. TextSecure for messages, RedPhone for VoiP and owncloud for files. Way cheaper too, and open source, also made by well respected cryptographers like Moxie Marlinspike[5]
[1] de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free/Libre_Open_Source_Software
[2] zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-08/nsa-has-full-back-door-access-iphone-blackberry-and-android-smartphones-documents-re"]backdoors to every operating system
[3] forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2530044
[4] techdirt.com/articles/20131002/17443624734/lavabit-tried-giving-feds-its-ssl-key-11-pages-4-point-type-feds-complained-that-it-was-illegible.shtml
[5] thoughtcrime.org
if they want to spy on us they can ... that's it...
More info?
Hi all - looking for more info on this phone - just joined XDADev to post this.
Specifically, what brands might this hardware be found under? Know it's a Tinno S8515 but have yet to find out anything about that; seems like Tinno generally makes phones for other companies?
Any help is appreciated!
Best,
-Cx
:cyclops::cyclops::cyclops:
The greatest challenge to securing a phone is not the OS or the apps running on it, it's the baseband. We have known for well over 30+ yeasr how to harden a *nix based system (like AOS), but we haven't even started to question WTF is going on in the closed source 10-100 MB baseband RTOS, which have fulll access to your entire FS and the most important phone operations, like SIM, RF, EMMC etc etc.
Only forcing the corrupt modem OEM's to release the sources of the Baseband firmware could improve the situation. This will never happen, unless there is another baseband Snowden out there somewhere...
We already know that the BP/CP FW is extremely insecure, and relies almost solely on obscurity as their main mechanism of protection. If this was not the case, the iPhone unlock developers would have been fekked long time ago, and the rest of us would sit around with SIM/network locked bricks filling up our bookshelves.
Unfortunately the greatest majority of the millions of XDA members are completely carefree about this issue and are only happy as long as they can "tweak some ROMs". So this will never be the place to find/see any serious baseband reversing, no matter how important it would be from a security standpoint.
So to summarize, your Qualcomm baseband will continue to send your exact GPS coordinates to the network provider at will, without you ever knowing, and without anyone (here) caring. So goes for the FM transmitter that is part of the baseband FW in both Intel and Qualcomm based phones. Do you have control over that? Never.
Only a serious long term spectrum analysis study could reveal whats going on there, where and when you're not (able) to watch.
This phone is the biggest scam lol.
hyshys said:
Saw news about this and came here to seek out does any1 have opinions about it.
i wonder, does the safety come from hardware or is it the OS what makes this so safe.. if it is the OS, i hope some1 smart enough makes custom rom for this.
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I was wondering this too. If it is only the rom (just like the $1300 pwnphone). It should be port-able
iliass01 said:
I was wondering this too. If it is only the rom (just like the $1300 pwnphone). It should be port-able
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Blackphone. - no hardware security, just software, and most of it is NOT open source. Some here (@SaintCity86 , @repat) has their points, and they are mostly right! If you want some security (and I said some!!!), then get rid of most of your apps (permission check and some common sense), all Google apps (yes, all of them), install a paid (not free) and high quality VPN software, don't use the phone feature (only data sim-prepaid), get an internet phone number (with no personal details), use end to end encrypted apps to make calls and send and receive texts, install Xposed and Xprivacy (or any other variant) and limit even more the apps you have on your phone. Don't use it as your only phone, but as a secure device and share your number and other infos with trusted people! In this case, maybe, you will be able to add some layer of security and actually be able to use it. And most important, don't give your phone in the hands of anyone! It is a bit paranoid, but it's the only way! But, don't be fooled! You can have some security, only if you stay under the radar, and don't gain some attention. If yes, then you have no luck! Personally, I have seen the Blackphone, and tested it for some time, and I am not really convinced it can be trusted.
Good luck!
Andronote3 said:
I really don't see how this phone is gonna change anything. Apps and websites have keyloggers, You still need a carrier to get service from and they have control of all your traffic. What about radio frequencies that can be intercepted, IP addresses, GPS chips sending signals to satellites, baseband and firmware are connected thru the cell towers of the carrier. I'm starting to think this phone is a scam.
They said nothing about how they're dealing with all this. They are probably using the whole NSA scandal momentum to fool people into believing they are safe if they buy this phone.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
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Would just like to correct this common misconception, GPS is one way.
GPS receivers as found in your phones, or navigation systems, receives GPS signals only. Nothing gets sent to satellites in this process, the algorithm is purely one way.

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