Related
Hi all,
i was googling for tweakui and came a result from handango.com => http://www.handango.com/SoftwareCat...Id=2&N=96806+4294910762&showBreadCrumbs=false
Check this guy is selling the tools he got free here at xda-devs.
the people who made the soft should do something about it...
I've just written to Handango. Please write to them to and get this thief off their books.
I have noticed that your vendor T.N Vietaus Trade (Australia) is selling a number of illegal (ie pirated or stolen IP) products, including Microsoft ROMs for Windows Mobile phones.
Also, he is reselling free products written by members of the xda developers forum at a significant mark up, free software for example being sold for $49.99.
Please ask this vendor to remove this software, or remove it for him.
Kind regards,
vijay555 (moderator at xda-developers.com)
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V
What a ****en Lame ass *****. THat is just the lowest you can go to, selling stuff that is offered to us here for free. **** him, ive written to them also to get this ***** from selling stuff on there. Good eye and thanks for making everyone aware of this.
I've sent handago an email as well. Keep the emails going.
what is the email?
Found the HQ phone number, will try to call (cant call anymore sorry) but will need more info on this like what app and other stuff that you can give
305 NE Loop 820
Suite 600
Hurst, Texas 76053
Corporate Office: 817-280-0129
Fax: 817-280-9628
He has ebooks in http://www.windowsmarketplace.com/category.aspx?bcatid=1129&av=14-275257
And same app's come up in the Microsoft handango page that is linked to the Microsoft Windows Mobile Product page Site http://microsoft.handango.com/PlatformTopSoftware.jsp?siteId=75&platformId=2&title=T.N+Vietaus+Trade+(Australia)&authorId=1811375
Mod needed
Can a mod post this in other forums so that everyone that has made a app can check if their app is in the selling list
Email of the supposed developer tnvietaus AT gmail dot com
And if im doing something wrong in giving this out, this info is on the web
This is insane.
haha I just left HORRIBLE reviews warning people on all of the links you just provided Mike.. lol.
I also emailed HIM... and Handango.
no, I just let them know that this stuff was available for free ...
The thing that IRKS me is he doesnt explain that there is MORE to just downloading and running the update to these.. so alot of people are probably ruining their devices.
FYI, this is one instance where the DMCA can be used to your benefit (if you are one of the software authors).
Do NOT write to Handango, et al, complaining that someone is selling free software.
Do write to the resellers and state, factually, that this person is selling software that *you* wrote without your permission or authorization. Also state, very factually, that you want the software pulled and any monies charged for the software to either be refunded to the purchasers or forwarded to you.
What would also help out is if all the software authors were to allow one person (perhaps vijay would be a good choice as he is both a mod and a software author) to act on their behalf so there is a single point of contact for XDA.
Tell me the address of Handago (and Microsoft, If I have read and understand well) and I also send an email.
Just a thought: many here (maybe me too?) searchin' and using no purchased software, and therefore one of us (or one of those having this "habit", if you like more saying so) has found not violating any legal or moral law. World goes around...
Gubbài.
He is selling over 90 titles, and they are ALL available here for free just about.. he is selling the dang HTC X-button for 24 dollars! lol.
derma, I think everyone here is realistic about software availability and software use... read around for my personal views on warez etc.
The board however has a strict policy on banning for distributing warez.
But, it takes some particularly spiteful cojones to steal someone else's work and then put your name on it and sell it. And then selling at an absurd markup... come on. There's reasonable cheekiness, but that's just taking the micky.
V
Understanding doesn't mean accepting
vijay555 said:
derma, I think everyone here is realistic about software availability and software use... read around for my personal views on warez etc.
The board however has a strict policy on banning for distributing warez.
But, it takes some particularly spiteful cojones to steal someone else's work and then put your name on it and sell it. And then selling at an absurd markup... come on. There's reasonable cheekiness, but that's just taking the micky.
V
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Just to explain my position about this.
As I wrote on the title of this post, I figure out what it can be the reasoning of this person but meanwhile I absolutely don't accept what he did (or it's better saying "what he didn't do" 'cos what he's selling it's not stuff of his own).
My thought doesn't want to be a provocation, at least not a gratuitous provocation, but a simple-soft thinking about a hard problem: copy-right (and use-wrong).
Obviously this is a real theft, more odious than that "normally" made to the detriment of that author of the software who sell his creation having the conceptual rights to do that. In this case we can see instead a double somersault: he sell something not of his own that originally is (was) free.
Hope being plain.
PS: "cojones"?! Maravilloso! ¡Hasta la revolución, siempre!
Gubbài.
It isn't just the markup, its the flagrant lack of informing people of the consequences of attempting to use those warez without having ample experience with their device. He just says 'For expert. Use at your own risk' he doesn't say .. 'If you don't know what you are doing your phone is dead.. d .. e .. a .. d' .. I feel bad for the people who have purchased these and tried to run them not knowing about unlocking and what not.. it's a shame
OMG, another one.
http://shop.my-symbian.com/Platform...0&productType=2&platformId=2&productId=208881
Where can i find the tweakUI here?
hanmin said:
OMG, another one.
http://shop.my-symbian.com/Platform...0&productType=2&platformId=2&productId=208881
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Review added saying it's free here.
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
I am more surprised that people actually paying to buy ROMs which are available for free. Beasty maybe you should be listing the ROMs since people don’t really want to hit the donation icon here. And I will give you a good feedback to get you started.
beast0898 said:
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
MODS PLEASE STICKY THIS
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
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I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
I know how stupid Microsoft will look if people start selling their modified ROMs. But I did discover one thing when you are pissed you do lose your sense of humor.
beast0898 said:
I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
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Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
Laurentius26 said:
Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
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And I do appriciate you flash our ROM's my friend
Thank you!
Regards,
Leo
faraz.riaz said:
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
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Support
Hi Beasty,
I'm behind you guys 100% on this one, if you come up with a way we can all help then let us know. I guess this arse wipe is a member of this group, can we have him or them removed from it to start with. It might not be illegal to sell it on eBay, but it must be some kind of fraud. As a paramedic I am (when given permission) able to use a persons medical history to further my knowledge, but I've no right to sell it in a book on EBAY if you see my point!!!
Kind regards
Jay
THANK YOU
i would be very pissed off too if i'd work my butt off to get nothing some times not even a "thank you" and other motHer%$$·$% is getting the money for my hard-work. if anyone can come up with some good ideas to avoid this type of persons here in this wonderful comunity would be great (maybe get his IP address somehow and ban him/her for good)
i have no words for all you people that spend many hours cooking and developing, hours that maybe your wife, husband or kids would need or deserve but just think about the 1000s of happy faces we have everytime we flash you piece of artworks or all the countless hours we wait for a new ROM to come out or just the big smile we have in our faces everytime the flash is finished and we see the new ROM for the first time. Just think that he/she migth be making a few bucks, but you have the appreciation, respect, knowledge and the love of many (maybe thousands) of people every single day with every new ROM . To all this you may have notice that english is not my maiden language(im from mexico) but i do want to show you my respects, i wish i could donate but in the country i live...life is not easy and all i can do is say...... !!!!!GRACIAS!!!!!!
BEST REGARDS. Erik.
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
So Disgusting
This is very disgusting if anyone is doing so........as a members of this community we should really stop this .This forum is for us and we should appriciate our developers for giving us such ROM's........which they develope by contributing their valuable time for us.
I really feel very sad about it.
Hi all,
I have no desire to make money from my work here, or demand donations for anything I contribute, all I request is the common decency from fellow human beings not to ruin this community by exploiting others.
TehPenguin does have a point though, his hosting does cost him money and adds great value to this community, the FTP Server and BugTracker are invaluable (when used correctly) and TehPenguin and this site could really use donations to help them keep running costs down.
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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I feel so ashamed of myself that I have decided not to download any ROM from your domain for one week. Seriously, did people have a bad weekend because everyone seemed to be pissed off? I am disappointed that you called me a hypocrite because I have been accused of this before and I’m anxiously waiting for someone to come up with something new. Everyone whom posted in this thread will have to send a handsome amount of donation to the “hosting dude” starting with Beasty who started this thread. Honestly, I do agree people should pay a little back to help those who are trying to help others. I think even if everyone pays as little as US $1 it will make a huge difference. I am surprised myself people come up with so many ideas how to change the ROM (Whisper: Most of them are lame) and they are more like demanding. I really don’t get why developers put up with that and I told Beasty that why he’s apologetic.
I do agree that we should do a little something to help. So what you need me to do?
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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Why don't you guys make a solution
Hey beast,
Why don't you developer make a credits section in your roms that is listing your names and all your comments.
I'm not a developer, but let me give an idea, why don't you create a program, that makes a watermark comment on the todays screen, which makes it clear to everyone that this rom is free and nmt for sale, and calling everyone that purchase this rom to contact you guys through the xda-developers web site.
it is just an idea, and I'm sure that most of the guys here is supporting you and the other developers for the great work
TehPenguin said:
However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
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Ive found the same when i set up htc-devs.com (when the ftp was wiped of m$ files)
TehPenguin said:
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
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I concur, In since i started developing my total donations are barely double digits (<£50) people think that things should be handed to them on a golden platter, and when they are not 100% to thier satisfaction that you shoudl put it right, immediately, but they would never consider donating
my 2p
I am not a developer too..or not considering me in that sort of group,because of the amount of time I spend in this (about 1-2hrs a week).
Just customized a Rom to my needs and I will be glad to share if someone wants it,freely!
Every person needs to find a good balance to Private life and Rom Developement,etc.. If this development is such time consuming,calm down..review your time!
Don't pretend donations (they are always appreciated but not to be Pretended or cast something up)
Development (and programming in general) in this forum are passions that we share together..
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, that's my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
responderman said:
I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
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Thats a good point to note as well - Hosting cost me money, but it also costs the people who host this forum money. So, I wonder how many people have noticed the Donate link at the top of this page (near the Wiki link)...
Disagree with Beastie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally disagree with Beastie on this matter! If you take a look at the installed software on that Uni it has SPB Finance, Weather and Pocket Plus retailing at 70$ as well as a quite long list of other appz. More than that what we do here isn't fully legal either or at least moral. For example in our ROMs we include software that we do not have a licence or any right to use like MSVoiceCommand, MSOffice, HTC Stuff etc, etc, if you compare this to a PC it would be like buying a PC with Win98 then taking a copy(image) of a friend WinXP(with Office, and other apps) and loading it on your one. Do you thing this is right? And also if someone would do the same and sell this "New" PC complain about it. You develop for your own fun and hobby. If you decided to share something not very moral with others, don't complain when someone does something that is not fully moral by your judgement. Morality or legality of this matter is a subjective matter. And do understand the concept of open source. I'm coming from a Mozilla exdeveloper background. And Mozilla is used in numerous commercial applications with proper credits. You have no right to claim that someone used your work to make money on it, as you are using someone else work in your own interests (name, hobby, any reason). You have your reasons to make just what that guy did for his reasons(in his case money). One thief is judjung another!!! How moral is that??? Of course you do develop your own tools and enchacements, BUT on top of a STOLEN OS!!! Microsoft, HTC,etc invested money and time in their developers, designers, markeing depts. to bring this OS to life, and if they decide they don't want to give it for free it is their choice as a business model. You do not have the right to steal this OS tweak it and claim that it is YOUR and someone should pay you for this. Look a the whole picture not that just some guy used the ROM you dont own but tweaked it and claim it is yours.
PS. Last night i posted my 1st ever ROM on this forum wich is as vanilla as possible(for me), the reasons behind postin it here was exactly that. Anyone can download it and tweak it to his own use, or install new soft one it, new soft keybd, new media player, fast GPS soft etc, etc. I didn't own that OS, I took it of Thingonasping wich took it from someone else. You spend a some time and money in "developing" "your" ROMs, corporations spend billions on that, and someone comes along and steals it. Now that person do not have the need to upgrade his device anymore as "his" new OS will keep him happy for a while. How much damage do you do then to even HTC themselves who didn't sell another unit as their potential customer didn't buy it cos he's got his old device new features(without permision from legal developer).
PS. And how do you know or are so sure that he used "Your" ROM? Maybe he took your kitchen and compiled it, (wich in your view and interpretation), makes it "His" ROM now, isn't it?
I feel sorry for the poor sod who will buy this Universal:
1. As far as legality is concerned, any stolen goods doesn't pass the title of ownership to the buyer. Even though the buyer is unaware of this theft and he/she is innocent, the ownership title doesn't pass to him/her. A case in point about Spb software on the phone, which we are assuming installed on the phone illegally.
2. To add to this the poor sod's nightmare, he/she will be lumbered with Windows Mobile 6 with full of bugs. For sure it won't have video calling.
KOR!
http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-WINDOWS-MOB...ryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
??
about: sale
Dust2Dust said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-WINDOWS-MOB...ryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
??
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What???????????, thats is very bad, Dutty send a email to the ebay Listing Violations. this is the link: http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_us/_base/index_4.html?tier0=report_listing.js&item=290229506456
This seller need to stop sell your rom, you do all the hard work and they make money for your work.
It cant be stopped... Its crap but true...
All5tars said:
It cant be stopped... Its crap but true...
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Please elaborate.
It makes me sick, if you look at this guys ebay postings he is almost exclusively selling other people's "free" software.
Now, legally he could sell a service...say helping you install Dutty's on your phone, but I believe that is against ebay policy (selling a service).
Dutty please write to ebay...this guy has apparently had postings removed in the past. Make sure you point that out as well as ALL the software he is selling like yours...the more you can offer the better a case you will have.
Once you write to them and get some feedback, let us know. I think all of us that are ebay members should also write on your behalf (referencing your case ID).
Another thing you can do is to contact high-bidders and winners and let them know what he is doing.
While it may be an arduous process people like this need to be stopped.
I just sent a report violation on ebay claiming it was an OEM violation (since he states he is selling the "official HTC" ROM). I followed it up with this e-mail:
I have just sent in a report for item# 290229506456
It should be removed because it violated ebays policies regarding OEM infringement listed here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/oem.html
This user is selling a copy of Operating System software that is from HTC (OEM) and is legally only available if you have purchased an HTC TyTn II device.
In addition, this user has been selling many products on ebay that are verions of software developed by others and distributed as "free ware" on the internet community.
In fact, this user appears to make a tidy profit to the unwitting public selling the work of others that even it's original authors do not charge for.
I would appreciate if you remove this listing and review all of the user's auctions for similar infringements.
It appears this user has been cautioned in the past and continues to violate these policies.
Thank you.
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I would encourage other user's to do the same. Feel free to use my e-mail. although please modify it slightly.
This is horrible. That person is the scum of the universe. This guy is a sick and shallow individual. Making money off of other people's hard work is just wrong.
there is a member with the exact same username
http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=693931
Instead of saying its OEM... why not tell eBay its 'warez'. They take that much more seriously...
hm, not a bad idea, I think I'm gonna grab all the ROMs on XDA and start selling them on ebay to ****@$$ for $$$$$.
dfellars77 said:
Instead of saying its OEM... why not tell eBay its 'warez'. They take that much more seriously...
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Becuase technically I don't believe it is "WAREZ" it is not software that can be obtained through retail channels. No where can you go out and "buy" a ROM. In addiiton, the user doesn't claim he is selling a special hacked ROM, he claims he is selling the official HTC one.
shazaani said:
This is horrible. That person is the scum of the universe. This guy is a sick and shallow individual. Making money off of other people's hard work is just wrong.
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Oh yeah, because Dutty hasn't made a dime from all these ROMs.
I mean, I never got the idea he wrote them from scratch either.
The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is doing the exact same thing whether you happen to like it or not.
rush242 said:
Oh yeah, because Dutty hasn't made a dime from all these ROMs.
I mean, I never got the idea he wrote them from scratch either.
The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is doing the exact same thing whether you happen to like it or not.
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He's not. Because Dutty provides it for free and allows people to make a contribution. He takes the work and improves it with his own hard, he's not charging you for someone elses work, or even for his own work.
This guy on ebay is getting paid by saying it's his work when it's clearly clearly not.
rush242 said:
Oh yeah, because Dutty hasn't made a dime from all these ROMs.
I mean, I never got the idea he wrote them from scratch either.
The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is doing the exact same thing whether you happen to like it or not.
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First off...Dutty doesn't SELL his ROM or REQUIRE payment. He accepts donations, that's all. Same with all the other chef's
Secondly, this guy isn't doing the exact same thing...he is not cooking his own ROM and selling it. He is selling DUTTY's ROM...the pictures and descriptions are identical.
In addition, even Dutty selling his cooked ROM would be illegal both by HTC's standards and by eBay's because it is copyright infringement since, as you correctly stated, these aren't being written from scratch, or rather written at all. They are just conglomerations of other's files (90% HTC, 10% 3rd party apps, many of which are "free").
Septastrum said:
He's not. Because Dutty provides it for free and allows people to make a contribution. He takes the work and improves it with his own hard, he's not charging you for someone elses work, or even for his own work.
This guy on ebay is getting paid by saying it's his work when it's clearly clearly not.
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Click to collapse
You missed the point: The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks. The original manufacturers don't want Dutty, et al, doing it REGARDLESS of whether it's a tip or a donation or not.
It would likely bother you regardless of whether he claimed it as his work or not. Besides, I didn't see that he claimed that it was his work in that eBay listing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=693931
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=290229506456&Category=38331&_trksid=p3907.m29
same guy
IP BANNNNN
Originally Posted by rush242
It would likely bother you regardless of whether he claimed it as his work or not. Besides, I didn't see that he claimed that it was his work in that eBay listing.
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Click to collapse
http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-UPGRADE-T-MOBILE-MDA-HTC-WIZARD-WINDOWS-MOBILE-6_W0QQitemZ290229506911QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
here you go
bengalih said:
First off...Dutty doesn't SELL his ROM or REQUIRE payment. He accepts donations, that's all. Same with all the other chef's
Secondly, this guy isn't doing the exact same thing...he is not cooking his own ROM and selling it. He is selling DUTTY's ROM...the pictures and descriptions are identical.
In addition, even Dutty selling his cooked ROM would be illegal both by HTC's standards and by eBay's because it is copyright infringement since, as you correctly stated, these aren't being written from scratch, or rather written at all. They are just conglomerations of other's files (90% HTC, 10% 3rd party apps, many of which are "free").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again: The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is selling what Dutty gave away for free. As was discussed earlier in Olipof's thread, it doesn't matter whether that is a book, a can of redbull, or a modified ROM. Once you've let it out of your control, what others do with it is their own business--no matter what you happen to think about it.
azn_flip said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-UPGRADE-T-MOBILE-MDA-HTC-WIZARD-WINDOWS-MOBILE-6_W0QQitemZ290229506911QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
here you go
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a different listing that states: "i worked really hard to provide this to you...." which is ambiguous at best. He may have worked really hard to provide it to someone. He does not claim that he wrote it.
Which, of course, could be construed as being misleading. But that really isn't the point. These listings would bother a lot of you REGARDLESS of what he says or doesn't say.
Least We All Be Hippocrates
rush242 said:
Oh yeah, because Dutty hasn't made a dime from all these ROMs.
I mean, I never got the idea he wrote them from scratch either.
The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is doing the exact same thing whether you happen to like it or not.
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Click to collapse
No doubt, and it won't stop us from sending donations to those who whip together the ROMS we all love.
Anybody hacking together code found on the web knows that he isn't in a ownership position, he is just having fun and can't expect to have any ownership over MS or HTC or 3rd party aps because he played DJ and mixed them together.
I make donations based on the labor cooks put in researching, mixing, testing and sharing and that will not change because someone is willing to help the Luddites finally get that god-awful factory ROM off their freaking phone.
I have mad respect for Dutty and and at the rate he pumps out ROMS I don't think that it is any sweat off his back that someone is using one of his zillion old ROMs to help people have better cellular experiences.
My recommendation is that we do what HTC and MS are kind enough to do with us (and that auction on ebay) IGNORE IT!
Stop Snitching!
If you guys really wanna play police and go stop people from doing what you do then I really ask you to stop a minute and think about what it would be like if this was all shut down because MS and HTC had someone writing letters complaining that we are ignoring their REALLY ENFORCEABLE copyright.
As the old saying goes: "May he without sin cast the first stone."
I'm not sure of the legality of selling Microsoft software (that was customized). It is like selling Vista for $5 and saying: "I changed the theme for you and it was very hard to do", but it is even worse because the theme was changed by someone else.
XDA should find someone savvy to research common licenses and burn in warnings to people at first startup saying that if they paid for it, they got hosed.
edit: Good point, but it is still very different. Microsoft is not going to waste resources to stop XDA from doing something harmless and then asking for donations. We are pointing out the fact that he is demanding payment.
deletedeleted
JayJay - since this is a useless thread, let me add some value
This pains me every time I see it ... and I'll explain why:
WinMoDevelopers.co.cc
Forums for NON HTC Devices
The idea of a WinMo Forum place for non HTC devices is great. But for the life of me I would never ever be able to remember that URL.... It's really, sorry to say, terrible for branding, terrible for memory, and by the very use of .cc it looks amateurish. And the only reason why I point this out -- to be helpful actually -- is that I just did a quick domain search and all 3 of these are available -- as dotcoms -- the universal easy-to-remember address -- since you more or less drop the .com and only have to remember the first part.
To reach the same audience you wish to reach more of, I believe you'd do much better with one of these.... and that was just my first-pass thinking in 2 minutes... please don't take offense. Branding is important... it's also not something everyone is naturally good at. best regards, /qs
WinMoDevices.com
WMdeviceforums.com
WinMoPhoneforums.com
the idea was to have a simialr forum for nonhtc devices
the issue is my forum is a new forum
it has yet to recieve any finacial donations and it uses a forumer.com forum so i cant pick up the software like vbulletin and input it inot a server or whatnot just yet
also since there is no money being donated and im not making any due to unemployment then im having trouble finding the money to buy a domain
so until i get a job or i get any donations then itll have to be a free domain till then
also it cant all be that bad, a goolge search for winmodevelopers brings up every ite i have.
btw
i find it hard to take offence here after the first few flames i got when i started
I gotcha.. i didn't know it was a free domain. I also understand well re economic times, amigo, and I wish you well. I totally see the value of this additional WM niche not served nearly as well at HTC owners. I want to talk to you about that. And secondly I would like to buy a domain for you-- it's 10$ /year... and I can offer you hosting, perhaps w vB. I do have it installed. You may have zero time right now, and perhaps zero motivation/interest at moment due to much higher prioroties, but I think there are opportunities there and for you to play a bridge role between sites would be great. When you are READY to chat please send me an email. (see my profile). Thanks, and glad you weren't offended. It hadn't occurred to me that the name was formatted that way due to beung free.
best regards/ quicksite.
jayjay8585 said:
the idea was to have a simialr forum for nonhtc devices
the issue is my forum is a new forum
it has yet to recieve any finacial donations and it uses a forumer.com forum so i cant pick up the software like vbulletin and input it inot a server or whatnot just yet
also since there is no money being donated and im not making any due to unemployment then im having trouble finding the money to buy a domain
so until i get a job or i get any donations then itll have to be a free domain till then
also it cant all be that bad, a goolge search for winmodevelopers brings up every ite i have.
btw
i find it hard to take offence here after the first few flames i got when i started
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As most of you would know, we have learned quite a bit about Defy bootloader during the last week.
We always thought that Motorola don't have a method to unlock production defys (defys shipped to end users). Well we have sufficient information now to prove that Motorola have a method, and that it converts production defys to engineering defys (Phones used by Motorola engineers to make ROMs and other stuff)
This is actually better than a simple unlocked boot-loader because eng defys have unlimited applications (because we have direct access to MOBO/CPU) like overclocking gpu, installing other OS like Ubuntu, Debian, WP7 etc. into NAND and a lot more.
So the problem here is that the tools required for ENG switch is only available to Motorola employees. Till now we have no further information on it. The tools are TI OMAP BOARD CONFIGURATION TOOL and a 16MB .bin file. Other significance of this method is that it might also unlock other phones with OMAP(3xxx/xxxx?) board. Also this method seems to be very stable.
So the good news is that this software is available for most Motorola repair centers. That means it would be easier to get a leak. Of course the highly paid Motorola engineers with 6digit paycheck wont leak it but we should consider low level repair executives (they already leak sbfs and RSDlite).
So my suggestion is we start a bounty thread in XDA to tempt them.
If you have a solution and if you are concerned about anonymity, please PM me.
PS : There are lots of bounty threads in xda.
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
the|gamer said:
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm. It depend's on which country you are from.
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this). And someone with access to Motorola's employees (I think the user racca works on a Moto distributor, but I'm not sure of it, I think he mentioned it in some thread a few months ago) could rush and "bribe" them. If people could be a bit more clear about which kind of employees should have access to this software, I could try and convince one of them (you know, people here in Brazil aren't that much into honesty, but are a lot into money) about heading us a leak from TI's software. I'll have to take my phone to MOTOAssist soon ("menu" and "back" keys' backlights are weaker than normal), so I'd have at least an actual reason to talk to an assist technician (assuming they have access to the board configuration tool).
Yet, since I'm no hacker (yet, I'm planning on getting a Nook Color - which community here in XDA seems to provide all you need to start your own ROM - and starting messing around with it) nor coder (know only a little about C programming), I would not try and mess around with TI's software, but only upload it somewhere and give you guys a link for it.
K3n bH1mur4 said:
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
royale1223 said:
We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno, since it's illegal, it may not be the best option to promote it. Obviously, it's still not immoral, but we all know that morality and law often do not converge, so it may be better to go rogue, talking in private with motoassist technicians and stuff like that, because, even if we're just fighting for our rights, we're still using non-legal ways, and risking to be sued for it.
I don't think promoting a website is illegal. What's illegal is hosting an illegal one.
Promoting a website who promises cash for employees of a corporation who leak internal software used by that corp. might be considered illegal in most places. Fortunately (or not, I'll explain why), we have jurisprudence to embase of: in september 1st, last year, a judge here in Brazil condemned Moto to update a customer's Dext/CLIQ to Android 2.1 (Moto did not provide this update here in Brazil, even though it did in many countries) without voiding the warranty.
I know it's just one case, in just one country, and updating an android version is way different than providing unlocked bootloaders (or the tools for users to do so). And, yes, I agree with placing a bounty at the tool. Yet, if we get caught, Moto can still argue that we had other ways to pursue our rights, and we should have used the justice system to do so, if we believed we were that right. Yet, they're a multimillion-worthy company (even bigger after being purchased by Google), and we're a bunch of broke users, at most devs making a couple thousand dollars, and would have little chance against their lawyers. Last, but not least, employers who help us may get caught and fired because of us, and I sincerely want nobody (ok, maybe a few of the highest executives) to get fired just for me to get an unlocked BL.
So, my point is: let's make this a stealth action. Get a reason for your phone to be taken to Motoassist (no intentional bricking, please! You must flash an official SBF before taking it there! - at least if your phone is still under warranty), get to talk with one of their technicians, and mention - indifferently - that some guys are giving alway big money for any Moto employee who leaks that TI OMAP software. Something like this: "hey, did you hear that crazy devs at this dev forum are paying the first moto technician to hand them some sort of software? Something OMAP-related, I don't know for sure. All I know is that the reward is some nice cash."
When the word spread, we could have an unlocked bootloader within a month.
Yet, we got a single issue to deal: how to ensure the person who gives us the SW first will actually receive the cash? I've seen a few bounties here before, but them all were settled by XDA devs (so the bounty keeper could just donate the sum to that dev), never saw something like paying "outsiders".
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
swapnil360 said:
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Talk with this guy. If he has access to a copy of TI's SW, and handle it to us, I'm pretty sure we could him get a nice reward. Not as high as if putting a bounty, but definitely enough to make the effort worth it.
I mean, supposing that this is actually gonna help unlock EVERY OMAP 3 (and possibly all OMAP-based phones) out there, and that this way the process is reversible (at least to me, it looks like no eFuse is being blown there, you know, assistance technicians can't just blow eFuses like that - taking the phone to the assistance under warranty shouldn't void it, and that's what a blown eFuse would do), loads of people would help. Imagine a single dollar from every OMAP 3 XDA user (take a look here for an INCOMPLETE list of OMAP 3 devices with ~30 ANDROID ONLY phones/tablets), that would make a lot of money.
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
hailmary said:
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah we would ensure him that.
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do u know motorola mobility service center in mbai?
we only hav private shops with motos certificate...
i dont think they can help...
all they say is we'll send it to factory(?)
Sent from my MB525 using xda premium
@hemil Please pm me.
hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey buddy... just wait for my call today...
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Putting up an ads offering money for violation the law may be a bit problematic. No website will be excited to host it. Another issue is that in the end someone will have to actually post it, someone in particular. And that one person will be in danger of being a subject of interest of various law enforcement agencies. You know, at the end of the day they always want someone to put the responsibility on, the culprit, a scapegoat. So you make heat and you put some particular person into it even before there is any result.
I would prefer to focus more on personal face to face private communications with the service guys. It's harder to prove and if something goes wrong (the guy records it etc.) our guy can always say he was just kidding, bullshitting, bigmouthing.
Anyway, if you are thinking about this seriously, here are few remarks.
don't offer the particular sum, it's not tactical; not even here should be mentioned any particular number; instead, let the service guy ask his price
if the first contact with a potential source is established, ask first for a proof; specify what the proof is supposed to be (a screenshot? a video recording of the software in action?)
figure out a way how to actually collect the money; people are willing to donate but they will not donate to anyone, only to someone trustworthy (but Epsylon will surely want to have nothing to do with everything even remotely questionable, let alone illegal); the "collector" will be under the lights, he may get attention of people we don't want to deal with
who actually will be allowed to donate? anyone? how to avoid an agent to donate and then simply track where the money is going?
figure out a way how to actually make a safe and smooth deal (money <-> software); will it be in person or electronically? how to verify we are given what we paid for? classical problem: no one of both parties is willing to make his move first, but we can't give away the money for a software we would start verifying not until the money is gone
figure out how to avoid being robbed (fake offers from people who would want to grab the money and run away) as well as being caught (fake offers from the dummy guy - LE agent); in both cases the correct proof might be given, though, but the intentions are wrong
For the particular mechanics of the exchange in person, one of numerous possible ways may go like this:
our guy comes with an intentionally bricked Defy repairable only with the software in question together with the ordinary USB cable (or without, if special USB cable is needed; in that case the cable must be part of the deal), and with an empty flash drive recognizable at the first sight; no money on him
our guy passes the flash drive and the Defy (and the USB cable, if no special cable is needed) to the "source" and watches closely
the source copies the software onto the flash drive, runs the software from the flash drive, connects the Defy via the cable provided and actually unbricks the phone (this must be more elaborated on; what if the software uses some libraries from the windows directories etc. which are not copied onto the flash drive? he may or may not have the installer, but just copying the installer isn't enough, he would have to copy the installer on the flash drive, then run the installer from it and install it back onto the flash drive and run it from there)
our guy gets the phone (and the cable) back, the source unplugs the flash drive and keeps it for now, our guy watches the flash drive is not connected to anything from now on
now the software is copied onto the flash drive and verified it's working, thus ordinary hand-to-hand exchange may proceed; our guy didn't bring the money to avoid being robbed, they both now may go grab the money or our guy may call his buddy with the money etc. (also needs to be heavily elaborated on)
Sensitive parts must be detailed in-depth, I am just indicating the outline, one of many possible. Still it's very far from perfect.
As you can see it's not that easy and there are many potential points of failure so this action may never really come to the practical realization.
What about a little bit different or alternative ways? Are there any? It would be useful to ask Epsylon what he would actually wish for the most - had he been able to wish for anything.
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huh !! think about moto when they actually ditch us with promises ? whats wrong if what we are screaming for last 1 year . and didnt get any updates ? huh think about tht before u speak about illegal stuffs . if moto is doing all sought of ways to keep us away from our rights . what we do undercover to get us right can no way be questioned when we have told thousands of times that we need updates .
more over the authority can question us only and only when they are themselves self guilt free .... but instead they are pretending to be saint sitting behind the curtains and doing all sought of locking stuff to deprive us of our rights
@jhonsmithx Let's not get ahead of ourselves. First of all lets concentrate on getting the source. Also I urge users to use a bit of social engineering to do that(using fb/g ). We'll put together a plan according to the situation after that. Also note that this is a pretty long shot. We might not get a source after all.
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could think of atleast 10 ways to share anonymously. Though I wont be posting them here.