Database Info

TyTN II Review From India

Blue Print:
Processor:
Qualcomm® MSM 7200, 400MHz
Operating System:
Windows Mobile® 6 Professional
ROM: 256MB
RAM: 128MB SDRAM
Dimension:
112 mm (L) X 59 mm (W) X 19 mm (T)
Display:
2.8 inch, 240 X 320 QVGA TFT-LCD display with adjustable angle and backlight
Network:
HSDPA/UMTS: Tri-band 850, 1900, 2100 MHz
HSDPA: Up to 384kbps for upload and 3.6Mbps for download
UMTS: Up to 384kbps for upload and download
GSM/GPRS/EDGE: Quad-band 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz
Device Control:
Finger scrolling and panning
Connectivity
Bluetooth® 2.0
Wi-Fi®: IEEE 802.11 b/g
HTC ExtUSB™ (11-pin mini-USB and audio jack in one)
GPS antenna connector
Camera Main camera: 3 megapixel CMOS color camera with auto focus
Second camera: VGA CMOS color camera
Audio Built-in microphone and speaker
Battery 1,350 mAh rechargeable Li-polymer battery
Standby time:
Up to 350 hours for UMTS
Up to 365 hours for GSM Talk time:
Talk time:
Up to 264 minutes for UMTS
Up to 420 minutes for GSM
Up to 120 minutes for video call
Expansion Slot microSD™ memory card (SD 2.0 compatible)
AC Adapter Voltage range/frequency: 100 ~ 240V AC, 50/60Hz
I got my HTC TyTN II two weeks back. It was a gift from my close friend. You gotta be lucky to have a friend like this. It was in fact a surprise me. He got the Demon looking black box to office and he gave that to me all of a sudden. It was wrapped in poly ethene cover. I could find no clues of what he is giving. Finally the suspense broke when I saw the black box with the HTC logo and then I thought that "Boy that would be a Kaiser". We've been discussing about Kaiser for quite sometime and its salient features.
It was just a WOW feeling and words couldn't explain how I felt. It was a sexiest piece of a phone. The glossy finish to the front and the mat finish to the back was a deadly combination of look and feel. Especially the answering keys were glimmering with the silver finish. At the outset the look and feel of the phone was breath taking. The color combinations took its major contribution. Thanks to HTC's designers to put a sexiest piece of innovative technology on earth.
I had a HTC Prophet before. I got the same level of excitement and happiness as I got a year back when I first held my Prophet, this time in fact the excitement was a bit more because of the sliding key board with the "Wind Chime" sound which was a hair rising experience. For a long time I was just gazing at the marvellous piece without doing anything on the phone. One was due to the surprise which is quite obvious and secondly due to the look and feel and the features of the wonderful innovation.
I was astonished looking at the size of the mobile, I placed both Prophet and TyTN II side by side and I was comparing the thickness of the phone, not much of a difference could I find having the sliding key board in my in TyTN II where as that was not there in Prophet. To have a keyboard to that size was a remarkable achievement on the size reduction to the device. It is so compact. The sliding key board has a sensor to it so that it based on the light available in the ambience the back light for the key board is active, which is a good feature to save battery power. The key board key is in tact that being a non key board user for the past one year I was able to type in easily without much of huzzles. The only point which keeps worrying me is that the soft keys are not bound properly, it is loosely packed to the base, I'm scared whether that would wear off on the long run . I checked with the dealer and he told that all pieces have the same problem. Not sure whether any body else has the similar problem. The tilt feature till 40 degrees vertically is a innovative feature and next time around you don't have to peep into the mobile, all you have to place the device on your desk, slide the key board and tilt the screen to your ease and see what's there on the mobile screen. This feature gives you a comfortable feature of watching a movie placing the device on your table and you dont have to worry about a cradle for your device isn't it just cool . Plug in the ear phones, tilt the screen and watch your favorite movie on your device at your table.
There were days I use to worry about dumping softwares into the Prophet but time isn't the same , now I got the TyTN II where I don't even have to worry about the memory having 256 MB Internal Flash, 128 MB RAM. Having installed close around 15 different softwares it is just stable and it does not break down. In the past two weeks to my rememberance I would have done a soft reset once or twice. Couldn't believe that I have a stable windows based mobile device at hand. I was a bit uncomfortable with the placement of stylus, got used to looking at stylus in the top right corner for an year whereas I got to look to the right bottom of the device. The SIM card deck is just been brought outside the battery casing and placed beneath the sliding screen in a way is good that you don't have to open the battery casing often, if there's going to be any problem with SIM card. To the other side, looking at the security of SIM card, you just have to unlock the SIM case and take the SIM out, it is as easy as that.
The reception of radio is fine, comparing my previous device I just feel that the sound is bit enriched. Moreover the volume control is not just a sliding button to the side of your device instead it is a wheel which gives much more in ease of operation. It also acts like a scroll wheel for the other applications and you need not take out the stylus and scroll for what you are searching for. By pressing the scroll wheel, the item which is selected gets opened. Indirectly the probability of you pulling out the stylus gets minimised with TyTN II.
Having an on board GPS built in, it proves the real power of it. Say bye bye to external GPS receiver to your device. It is in deed is in built in the device, just rocks. The reason I say that it is powerful is that, I have installed VITO Navigator II and my friend had installed the same in his Dopod U1000. In Dopod U1000 we were doing all sort of funny actions to trace satellites , we were holding the U1000 just right above our heads so that device could plot some satellites and the maximum we could find is only 4 and comparing that, TyTN II having the in built GPS could easily trace 9-12 satellites. I couldn't probably enjoy the practical features of GPS being in Chennai - India and I hope in the coming days it would be really useful.
The On/Off button in the device, is placed to the surface of the side. It would have been better if the button would have been a bit projected so that user need not search for the button and every time I have to Switch On/Switch Off the device it is a bit difficult to perform the operation as it is to the same surface level of the casing. Moreover in the night it is really difficult in the dark to Swith On/Switch Off the device, First is to plot where the button is and secondly to press it correctly. Most of the time I land up pressing the casing of the device thinking that the button is there. It would have been really useful if there could be a back light option for the On/Off button.
A little bit of disappointment towards the battery life. My talk time for a day would be normally an hour on an average and this is spanned across the day (not a continuous talk time) and I perform basic operations on the device and normally I don't watch movies and listen to music. The battery last for only 1.5 days max, where as for the same operations Prophet use to last for two full days and at times even a bit longer.
The touch response is really awesome and it is just that smooth that you don't have to strain with the stylus for any operations.
The color reproduction in this phone is amazing. It really has the vibrant colors in it. I've kept only half the brightness but still it is producing good results. It would be have still better if TyTN II is equiped with a VGA Screen instead of QVGA screen. But with the same Battery (1350mAh), QVGA is the optimum screen resolution.
The 3 MP camera has just proven its caliber. The picture quality is really good and even the videos. The videos taken are just smooth and the transition is just a remarkable break through. The enhanced sound quality makes you feel good to listen to more and good songs and I have installed Pocket Player and having the equalizer set, I could really feel the clarity of sound coming from the speaker. Listening to the same music with the same equalizer setup in Prophet is just out of question. I hope it is just a boom for the music lovers to listen to music in their PPC. The mat finish to the base of the mobile is also a worrying factor, I'm a bit sceptical whether the surface could easily get scratches due to mobile handling and which in turn could spoil the look of the fone.
Plus:
Screen tilt till 40 degrees.
Slide Keyboard.
On board GPS.
Enhanced Memory capacities.
The Micro SD card has a cover to it, which prevents dust getting into the device.
Buttons made compact and in correct placements.
Good sound clarity.
Good pictures off the 3MP camera.
Usage of stylus is minimized having the scroll wheel.
It’s a truly global device. It will work anywhere in the world.
Minus:
Mat finish for the base of the device prone to get scratches very easily, which spoils the look of the device.
Soft keys on the sliding key board is not bound properly to the board.
On/Off button takes an extra care to perform the operation.
SIM card casing provided beneath the sliding screen seems to be a bit insecure considering the security aspect.
No VGA Screen
Pictures Below...

Pictures of TyTn II
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

Good One
Good Review Mate !

nice one mate..keep it up

Helmi's ROM work great and Destinator 6 as well

Hey there fellow Indian......
hey,nice review there.....i felt the emotion
Iv been lookin to buy the kaiser for some time now....just hav a few questions bout its use in india....
1) Wut maps r u using for GPS navigation?....r there ne shortcomings?
2) How r the headphones in the bundle?
3) Is HTC india supporting the TYTN II ?

Mera Bharat Mahan

Great review bro.. man, feel like buying kaiser.. btw, what about that 40 degrees tilt thing, is it firm enough?

ncex said:
Great review bro.. man, feel like buying kaiser.. btw, what about that 40 degrees tilt thing, is it firm enough?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes its firm

I bought mine from Singapore and am using it in Bangalore, India. The phone came with Mapking software pre-installed with one free map. That was cool. THe portion of the phone that scratches quite easily is the camera cover on the battery door. My phones a month old with several scratches on it already and I baby my phone quite a bit(No using a screen protector on a part of it). Installed a screen protector(first thing I always do with my touch screen phones.)
HTC India does not support the TyTyn2 since it has'nt been laucnhed here. If you want to buy it you'd need to get it on the grey market or import it yourself.
Its an amazing phone. prefer it to anything else available on the market at the moment. It being my first Windows based phone I really doubt I'd use anything else again(coming from EZX-Linux and UIQ previous to that).
Regards,
Akshay

Hey mines 1st Windows phone & never going back to sybian again
Hey tell me do u guys Use GPS in india is it maped yet ?
How much is it in grey market ?
Im a Indian in US, so was wondering how it worked there
I have aTilt got it for $299 with contract, worth it
aksd said:
I bought mine from Singapore and am using it in Bangalore, India. The phone came with Mapking software pre-installed with one free map. That was cool. THe portion of the phone that scratches quite easily is the camera cover on the battery door. My phones a month old with several scratches on it already and I baby my phone quite a bit(No using a screen protector on a part of it). Installed a screen protector(first thing I always do with my touch screen phones.)
HTC India does not support the TyTyn2 since it has'nt been laucnhed here. If you want to buy it you'd need to get it on the grey market or import it yourself.
Its an amazing phone. prefer it to anything else available on the market at the moment. It being my first Windows based phone I really doubt I'd use anything else again(coming from EZX-Linux and UIQ previous to that).
Regards,
Akshay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

@vader
All the mahor cities are mapped reasonably well. When I was using the Motorola E6, Ihad a hloux GPS system to go with it, ran MGMaps with offline maps and downloaded GMaps of the entire South INdia so it worked almost everywhere, highway mappings are of the major roads only, while detailed maps of only the big citites are available. THe Bangalore map provided by MapKing is reasoably ok, but you cant use the route fix since the one-ways etc. keep changing week after week. But to know your position its more than sufficent.
I have no idea how much its in the grey market, but in Singapore I paid 750USD for it. Its the TyTyn2 and not the Tilt. I suppose if it is avialable in the grey market should be around 1000USD.
Hope this answers most of your questions

God bless ya man
Yes you did
The Tilt is same as Tytn II just some less software
& no front cam, cos in USA Service providers dont support it
aksd said:
@vader
All the mahor cities are mapped reasonably well. When I was using the Motorola E6, Ihad a hloux GPS system to go with it, ran MGMaps with offline maps and downloaded GMaps of the entire South INdia so it worked almost everywhere, highway mappings are of the major roads only, while detailed maps of only the big citites are available. THe Bangalore map provided by MapKing is reasoably ok, but you cant use the route fix since the one-ways etc. keep changing week after week. But to know your position its more than sufficent.
I have no idea how much its in the grey market, but in Singapore I paid 750USD for it. Its the TyTyn2 and not the Tilt. I suppose if it is avialable in the grey market should be around 1000USD.
Hope this answers most of your questions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I know , but to hear you guys out there payed 300$ for something I paid 750 makes my stomach burn , therefore I stress on the difference, I have a front cam....you dont naaaah naaah na na naaah .
But seriously its one heck of a phone, if it had the USB host function as well as TV out and an FM Radio(although I dont use any of those function, well mayeb the USB host one I'd likke to use), it would have made it a godsend

aksd said:
I know , but to hear you guys out there payed 300$ for something I paid 750 makes my stomach burn , therefore I stress on the difference, I have a front cam....you dont naaaah naaah na na naaah
But seriously its one heck of a phone, if it had the USB host function as well as TV out and an FM Radio(although I dont use any of those function, well mayeb the USB host one I'd likke to use it would have made it a godsend
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Tv out is all it cant do
U can search the fourms should find something on USB host function
as for an FM Radio
here it comes with a 3 day Trial Xm radio
& below is a Link to Hack it
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=309844&highlight=mobi+tv
Hope it helps

Reload Kaiser brush it up
And brush it with Kaiser tools on this link
http://www.4shared.com/dir/8165638/7d4b1590/Kaiser_cabs-Reload.html

You guys gotta check the destinator 7 thingy from Satnav, it rocks on my TYTN 2 and is way better than the mapking that came along with the phone, GPS fix within a minute and comes along with a one india integrated map...really good directions and stuff
I don't work work for Satnav...I work for a company that gives me access to xda at work

The Reaper said:
You guys gotta check the destinator 7 thingy from Satnav, it rocks on my TYTN 2 and is way better than the mapking that came along with the phone, GPS fix within a minute and comes along with a one india integrated map...really good directions and stuff
I don't work work for Satnav...I work for a company that gives me access to xda at work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using destinator before I flashed with the newer roms. Destinator seems to crash all the time on my Tytn II. It goes down and takes the task bar with it. Haven't been able to figure out what causes this... but loved it though.
Mapmyindia is also quite good, but stuck with landscape mode in that.

My brother has a TyTn II and all i can say (compared to my eten g500+..............................) is that this pda deserves some serious respect, even by the newest HTC Touch Pro.

guptadh said:
I was using destinator before I flashed with the newer roms. Destinator seems to crash all the time on my Tytn II. It goes down and takes the task bar with it. Haven't been able to figure out what causes this... but loved it though.
Mapmyindia is also quite good, but stuck with landscape mode in that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange...i dont have any such probs with destinator..
any of you guys check out this funny thing caller "Virtual Caller"??? It's a real life saver when you want to fake a phone call or sms and walk out of a boring meeting
Here's the LINK

I-Mate Ultimate 9502. Kaiser Killer?

I imagine in a similar way to many people in these forums I had hit a brick wall on PDA functionality. I was was waiting for Kaiser to be THE all in one and just as I was about to buy one I discovered the shortcomings. So, having sold my TyTn and bluetooth, solar GPS receiver I brought an Athena. Wonderful piece of kit but in the end it had to go as it was just too bulky.
Having heard that the 9502 was imminent I brought an HP 9515 to see me through to it's realease.
Two weeks ago I placed a pre-order for the 9502 with Powerupmobile as stock was due on the 24th and to my surprise (and slightly disturbing swelling in my manhood) it arrived last Friday (18th April) so I have had a weekend to play.
Out of the box the overriding feeling was 'heavy'. TyTn was ABS plastic but this is (and I stand corrected) magnesium alloy encased. Personally I find that comforting...remember when B&O put lead weights in their remotes to make the quality more tactile?
Runinng WM6 which we are all familiar with there are no real surprises except to say that the 640x480 screen IS beautiful!
Down the left hand side you have JOG Wheel and 'OK' button (very blackberry and very friendly) as well as a shortcut button to the wireless comms. The charging/hardwire comms facility (mini USB) is also present this side rather than on the southern aspect.
Down The right hand side is a '+' and '-' rocker switch for volume etc, voice memo and camera activation buttons as well as a 2.5mm stereo jack.
The stainless steel telescopic pointer is housed to the top right whilst the power button is on the top, horizontal face of the unit.
The face of the unit has buttons for MESSAGING, INTERNET, START, OK, RECEIVER UP AND DOWN and a FOUR WAY THUMB PAD + SELECTOR BUTTON. To access the MicroSD HC slot you have to remove the rear battery case, but not the battery itself.
Right
Left Back
Top
Bottom
Screen up
Battery exposed
On arrival I loaded all my usual software and all has worked fine with one exception...it seems that after using TomTom6, quitting the application and letting the unit timeout, it will not reactivate on the standard power depress. I have had to soft reset. I will make I-Mate aware of this.
-------I have subsequently discovered that this is a one off and the unit is being swapped out- 22-04-08-----------
All comms functions are manually startable so you have to remember to enable the GPS radio prior to starting your satnav software.
In much the way as TyTn an Kaiser the screen can be pushed to reveal a full QWERTY keyboard (though the numerics are still FN dependant) and the keyboard is backlit depending on the ambient lighting conditions.
The screen behaves more like a Samsung phone inasmuch as it 'flicks' up and down.
The reason I didn't buy Kaiser was because of the video playback problems dirctly attributable to the drivers for the Qualcomm hardware. What is ironic with the 9502 is that it is Qualcomm based but at 320x240 video plays back just fine. Using TCPMP to watch Star Wars Episode III with TCPMP in 'Raw Frame buffer mode' the movie was totally watchable. I will test 640x480 when I get time.
The GPS is easy to set up (on COM9 at either 5,400 or 115,000 baud) with more channels (and therefore more accuracy) than any other PDA I have used with an inbuilt receiver. The cold start time is between 15 secs and one minute depending on the normal constraints. There is no 'Quick GPS' facility.
I haven't been able to test HSDPA yet but all the radio's seem to give good reception so there's no reason to assume that throughput will be anything other than expected.
So, Kaiser Killer? For me, yes without doubt but don't forget this luurvely piece of kit hast only just been released. It WILL get better.
Now, who makes it?
PS if anyone wants me to test it anyway or wants more info, let me know.

Amazing!
Wow! This is one nice phone. I've been disappointed in my touch dual for some time now (eventhough Its not been too long since I bought it!) and been looking for a replacement but none of the phones I've seen look as 'sleek'.
I may just look into this one more.
I see that this one also has the same qualcomm chipset. What is the video playback like?
Does it have bad lag like all the other htc qualcomm pdas (like the touch dual)?
Does it slow down when you keep the screen pressed?
One more thing....I cant see it from any pictures, but is the screen beveled or is it flush with the sides?

Awesome. I've been wanting one of those since they were announced. After this little review you posted, I might think about actually getting one. Thanks

That be a bezelled screen me lad.

Duplicate post.

Duplicate post

Using TCPMP to watch video there were initially problems with a huge amount of frame ripping. This was quickly resolved by switching to from DiractDraw to GDI codec and upping the buffer to 4mb. This was at 320x240. Will try reformatting to 640x480 asap but I don't hold out a lot of hope that watchability will be as good.
Don't know what you mean by 'keep the screen pressed'.
It is indeed a bevelled screen surround.

Why does every new device got to be the "Kaiser" killer?
Also, what is with the internet and email buttons being by the ear speaker at the top? Everytime I answer a call I'm going to open an email.

By way of an update to the issue with TomTom6, it turns out that my unit is faulty. At random it won't come out of standby. Completely unpredicatable and unrelated to TomTom, it transpires. PowerupMobile.com have organised a direct swapout so hopefully it's just a bit of bad luck. Bodes well for Powerup Mobile though. I was concerned that as they were nearly £100 cheaper than expansys the service might not be as good. Great response from their tech guy/guys too.

If you put your phone yo your head with that kind of sustained pressure your in for serious ear problems.
Kaiser killer cause it's less money, a better product out of the box (4 x the screen resolution) and it all works as it's supposed to (with the exception of mine which is, of course, a one off problem). HTC have long been repackaging the same hardware and charging more and more for it with little increase in functionality. I was a hardened HTC fan as my PDA record shows, but to tout a unit as the most powerful of it's type, hike the price and then turn out a unit which is effectively a TyTn with a GPS and a video problem isn't too customer focused...stockholder focused perhaps; to then refuse to sort a DRIVER problem....firmware no less...tends to put one off. In my humble opinion, if a 'Kaiser Killer' comes along and forces HTC to turn out better products at a more competetive price, I'll be back with them.
Oh yeah, and it's a catchy title.

i´m also interested in this phone.
could you please upload some pics taken with the camera. best would be in dark light and with text.
thanks

Eurosportler said:
i´m also interested in this phone.
could you please upload some pics taken with the camera. best would be in dark light and with text.
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do. Give me 24 hrs though. By 'with text' I assume you mean a text imprint overlaid direct?

yes, that is what i meant with "text"
thank you for the fast response.

Could you please tell us how responsive is this device compared to the kaiser lets say. I mean do you have any problems of it being slow? I am asking because VGA screen resolution is sometimes a burden for processors and there are some examples of "slow" VGA devices.
Do you have memory leaking problems? I have heard a lot about the considerably low 30mb free RAM after a reboot, but if it remains there after starting and closing programs, I don't believe it is an issue.
Finally, could try to make some benchmarks and post the result. Try to use SPB or sktools so that there are comparable results.
Sorry for the long request message, but I seriously thinking of buying this device, and it is good to know some things before I finally decide.
Thanks!

I hate to burst your bubble, guys but since the technical specs(incl. CPU) are pretty much the same as on the Kaiser(HTC TyTN II), don't you think that i-mate just put Kaiser technology into a different(yes, nicer) outfit?! Just my 2 cents worth...

@P996: yes but you are missing the VGA spec which is something "different" to what we have seen up until now. Moreover, if imate has actually managed to use the processor efficiently so to cope with the VGA resolution demands, that we are talking about something completely new, considering the size and offers (GPS, wi/fi, VGA, keyboard). I don't think there is something similar in the market now and all its offers are called new technology.
@edenc: sorry but I have on more question . I have also read some comments about battery life. Do you think it is ok, or it might be an issue? How does it compare again to the kaiser lets say?

Diamond killer???
lol
just read the thread.. sorry

Oh its completely a Kaiser Killer. Everything about it is better. All my mates who have a Kaiser want my 9502, but the video drivers are still shockingly bad (sorry to sound like a broken record). I never even considered a Kaiser - it seemed like a downgrade from the Hermes in terms of the features that I regularly use.
The 9502 can play perfect qvga video, but it looks rubbish on the VGA screen. Other than that (and no SDHC support) this is, in my opinion much better than anything that is currently on the market, and will be until the X1 comes out.

ya. cant wait for X1 with 3" 800x480 WVGA!
compare to that fake diamond at 2.8" VGA 640x480! haha

you may also want to repost your article to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=351788

External camera?

Does anybody know if there is an external camera that can connect to the x7510? I've tried a few USB web cams through the USB port on the 4-in-1 cable, but predictably enough the device doesn't have a driver to use these.
In case you're wondering why, I have a rather sturdy plastic armoured case mounted on my bicycle handlebars. My Athena lives in there when I'm cycling. I have a clear lid on the case, so I can see the Athena's screen - it doubles as my cycle computer, plus a whole bunch of other tasks.
The Athena can (obviously!) record video, so it'd be easy for me to use it to record my progress, especially on steep downhill off-road tracks. This would allow me to see where I had made mistakes, so I can improve my riding (and my times!)
I took great care with making the armoured case and it is waterproof and very strong, for obvious reasons. I do need to be able to see the screen, so I cannot simply change the design to allow the use of the built-in cameras. Also, I'd like to mount a camera on my helmet. Preferably a cheapy webcam, as I wouldn't worry so much about completely destroying that in a fall. Needless to say I don't want to destroy my x7510!
Any suggestions are much appreciated!
Many thanks in advance.

I hope the vibration from biking wont damage your x7510 , it is definitely not suitable for x7501 i think ...

Lol! It is mounted in a type of high density foam, which should absorb a fair bit of vibration. I've been using it like this for around a year now, and at times at breakneck speed on some serious off-road downhill tracks, but have found no issues.
The case and phone survived a few crashes with no more than a scratch or two on the case.
But I do agree that it wouldn't be a good idea to use an x7500 or x7501 as the microdrives probably won't like it much!

Wow ! More than 1 year of hard bicycling with Advantage , this proved that it is pretty tough and durable with flash drive , but don't try this with microdrive otherwise once broken , you got to replace it and start all over again ! Good luck to all for outdoor use with your advantage , cheers

My REVIEW of the LC-Power SINA-1 Tablet [edited]

Hello there,
in september 2012 I bought my first tablet, a LC-Power MIRA-1. Shortly after, on the 19th I posted a [Q] post here because I had a few questions. In the following weeks, some replies back and forth, more quirks came to light.
In short, I was semi-happy with the MIRA-1 (everything was fine save a few situations where the single-core tablet speed could not really keep up, for example, starting firefox and the keyboard, it always froze 2-3 secs "firefox is not responding. close/wait?")
Still, I do believe, I learned some valuable lessons about android and others with the MIRA-1 or thinking about getting one were helped too.
Fade in today.
I recently bought the new LC-Power SINA-1. It cost me 200EUR (Germany). In comparison, the MIRA-2 (which is like the MIRA-1 with an extra camera and a smaller rechargeable battery) still costs 160 EUR
I found the new SINA-1 to be a very interesting product, especially considering the price.
I came here to write my own review. I am in no way affiliated with LC-Power and I do not get a dime for writing this.
My motive for writing this and yes, maybe even advertise, is very simple. First of all, xda-developer has helped me before and I'd like to give back. More importantly however, I believe in tablets that do not cost an arm and an leg as well as the android (modding) community. I would very much love to see the LC-Power tablets get the attention they deserve...
Thank you for keeping with me so far. Let us begin!
Technical specs for the new SINA-1 tablet:
CPU: ARM Cortex A9 Dual Core 1,5GHz
GPU: Mali 400 QuadCore 250MHz
RAM: 1GB DDR3
Memory: System 1GB + 16GB NAND Flash (+ MicroSD up to 32GB)
Display: 10.1" IPS 5 Point Touchscreen, 1280x800
Networking: 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth 4.0
Cameras: 0.3MP front, 2MP back
Connectors: micro-HDMI out, micro-USB host, micro-USB connector, 3.5mm headphones jack
OS: Android 4.1
Want to know more? google it
As I mentioned before, the tablet costs 200 EUR (Onlineshop, Germany, Dec, 15th 2012)
Material and built quality:
The first impression is very good. The tablet feels solid, has a certain weight to it, but is not too heavy.
The front appears to be glas and if it is not, it must be a very hard plastic. The back is made out of aluminium. I have no doubt that both can be scratched, please forgive me for not doing the experimentation on that. However, in a few days of extensive (time) yet normal (application) use, I have yet to see any marks besides fingerprints.
Where the front and back meet I can not feel any sharp edge (MIRA-1 I could).
It is very thin (quite a bit thinner than the MIRA tablet and a bit higher as well)
Overall, I would give the material and quality very good marks. I dont doubt that it could be better in some regard, even if I can't name one right now.
Display (visual):
The 1280x800 resolution suits the tablet well. It is definately a neccesary step up from 1024x768 (MIRA). Even if I did not exactly see pixalation with the old ones, the picture is indeed better with the higher resolution. Webpages like reddit look sharp, the text in 100% zoom is not too small. Pictures look vivid and good. Videos are even better (given the source material is of sufficient resolution itself).
The viewing angles are what you would expect from an IPS panel. Frontal (no angle) is best, the more you move to the side and increase the angle, the more you lose contrast and brightness. I have seen worse and have yet to observe the "picture went negative", but viewing some content with 2-3 people should not be a problem when you dont mind sticking your heads together
The brightness (350cd/m²) is good, in fact, in a dark room you may want to lower it a bit. Even on the lowest setting it is not too dark.
The contrast is equally good, or should I say "normal". It did not attract attention, neither positive nor negative...
First tests with a bright (300W) lightsource led me to believe that the glossy display does not become a shaving mirror when you have a bright light behind you, but it is definately harder to see the picture. Especially noticeable with movies.
Due to it being winter without sun, I can not test the tablet with summer-sun-brightness outside. I fear the results will not be too good. You may want to keep that in mind if you live in africa and will be using the tablet in the sun - might be trouble. (Then again, I don't know any tablet that has a matte display)
The illumination (is that the right word?) - the background light source illuminating the display with the same brightness consistenly - is adequate. There are a few bright spots (tested with a black fullscreen per 1.0 eyeball), especially on the lower left corner/border).
It is not noticeable when looking at brightly coloured images, but it will be a nuisance when watching a movie which is very dark.
I felt that here, my old MIRA-1 did do better. There, I never noticed bright spots like this before.
Display (touch):
The 5-point-capacitive display does very well in accepting touches, even light ones. 2-point touch (zoom) works equally great and the short test with fruit ninja confirmes that 5 points can be tracked. I did not experience any noticeable lag with 1,2 or 5 points in normal operation.
If you take a paint app and draw with your finger, a slight lag can be observed, however, as I understand current technology, this is common and just the way it is.
In conclusion, the display visually is adequate. Are there better displays out there? Yes, definately. Do you get them for 200 EUR? Definately not! Do you need a better display? Well, I can not answer that for you. In my opinion, the illumination is the only real and still overlookable drawback, everything else is fine. 8/10
The touchscreen part of the display is as it should be. I can not really imagine some way to improve it. 10/10
Together 9/10
Actual Performance:
The performance is quite good and right were it should be. There are faster tablets and phones out there and if we were talking about speed in my workstation or gaming rig, I would be right there with the "FASTER!!!!"-crowd. But since I don't plan on playing skyrim or bf3, rendering 3d images or encoding hd-videos on the tablet, I dont need huge speed reserves, I want a tablet that performs well with the usual tasks like webpage browsing, playing media files and so on.
As mentioned before, this is one of the main problems I had with the old MIRA tablet. 2-3sec freezes, applications (mainly the browser) that did not react and had to be waited for. With the SINA-1 they are gone. The OS works like a charm, switching applications goes instantly, browsing webpages is fun and the waiting in the browser now is for the reason it should be - networking speed! (browsing with firefox+adblock+hackers keyboard)
Since the old MIRA did perform well with movies and the games that I tested, it is no wonder that the SINA-1 does perform equally good. HD videos work well, jumping around in them works fast, even over HDMI with 1920x1080.
And I have yet to find a game that does not run perfectly on the SINA-1. I have tested the occasional gamer games like Angry Birds, some RPGs and even some 3D shooters.
It is hard to give points for the performance. On the one hand, I am fully satisfied (10/10), on the other hand are tablets and phones being sold with much much more power, at least on paper.
Button/Connector placement:
There are only two buttons, power and volume up/down. Both are placed on the right higher side, where I would have placed them myself. They feel high-quality (they dont dangle/wiggle) and have a distinct pressure point that needs some force. This helps you in knowing when you actually pressed the button and not press buttons by accident.
The connectors are on top (right side). One exception would be the headphone jack which is on the right side above the buttons.
The USB host (where you can plug in normal usb devices) is no longer a common USB port (like MIRA had), but a micro-USB. A short adapter cable came with the tablet.
The normal USB host (where you connect your tablet with the pc to access the memory/sdcard from the pc) is also micro-USB. A longer cable came with the tablet.
I would have liked the normal USB port to stay.
Also, these two distinct different USB ports look the same. Some attention must be payed to not confuse them.
HDMI is mini-HDMI. Adapter did NOT come with the tablet. (Which would have been nice!)
Power In is 5V at 2.5A. Adapter came with the tablet (duh!) - the cable is a bit short for my taste. About the same as with the MIRA before.
Note: the tablets rechargeable battery can no longer be loaded over USB
The connectors are close together, but not too close. you should be able to connect all 3/4 with power at the same time.
The microSD slot is on the right side, almost on the back.
Speaker: The speaker(s?) is on the backside. I feel like the device is not as loud as the MIRA tablets, but still works well for watching movies or listening to music in a normal room when you are alone.
Software:
Android 4.1 is working great.
Some might argue there are a few needless apps preinstalled. For example Google Maps and Navigation on a device which has no GPS and no mobile internet built in.
But there is no real crapware either.
Google Play:
Google Play is installed and working fine. The device gets shown as "Rockchip SINA-1"
I did run into some trouble with my old MIRA-1 and some apps. A few were apparently not compatible (although I did not understand why), others that were compatible did refuse to install (I can not and will not exclude a layer 8 problem here)
All those apps work now with the SINA-1. Install is fast and there is no trouble. The 16GB memory will suffice for a lot of apps.
Battery:
The rechargeable battery is a bit less powerfull than the one in the MIRA-1 and a bit more powerfull than the one in the MIRA-2.
Still, with the higher speed and I would assume, higher resolution, more power is needed. Hence with usage, the charging level does indeed go down. Quite a bit faster than with the MIRA-1. I will have to correct my earlier estimate from 5-6hrs down to 4-5hrs.
In fact, bring your loader if you are gonna go out all day and will be using the tablet much.
Support:
LC-Power is usually quick in answering normal support emails, but they will not exactly fall over each other trying to resolve any exotic issue that might come up. Maybe if you speak mandarin and mail them directly at tech and dev headquarters in probably china you might have some luck, but I doubt that the LC-Power people in Germany, USA or UK or ... had much to say about developing the device and customizing the android (except of course, maybe some translation)
Also, do not expect regular android updates or any long time support and new android versions. 2-3 months ago I was promised 4.1 for the MIRA-1, still hasn't been released.
Connectivety:
Wireless LAN b/g/n is working as intended. I feel however, that the signal strength is weaker than with the MIRA-1 tablet.
Bluetooth: What can I say. Its Bluetooth. Its there, it can be used, it works...
Mobile internet: Only per additional USB dongle (or tether your mobile phone...)
Ethernet: Apparently there are USB dongles for Ethernet LAN out there. Havent seen one yet, but I havent looked hard either.
Modding:
So far, there has yet to establish a big LC-Power community with modders, mods and custom roms. I really really hope it will happen some time. But dont hold your breath, you are on your own. Spread the word of the LC-Power devices, lets get a high enough market share an the chances of a active modding community will rise dramatically. Or do it yourself...
So...
if you dont care about mods and custom roms, the SINA-1 is ok for you.
If you want to play around, learn android, program aps, make mods, maybe even a custom rom, feel free to give the SINA-1 a try.
If you want to download the newest custom ROM, install it per 10 step manual and prag in school about your mad hacking and modding skills, look someplace else...
Rooting:
The device does not come pre-rooted. (MIRA did)
I welcome that change to some degree. I honestly believe in not giving the run-of-the-mill users the ability to break something beyond their own (or even some specialist) capability to repair it.
Then again, I also am not fond of the tricks one has to employ to actually root a device IF someone knows what he is doing and wants to use a device to its full potential.
That being said, it was relatively easy to root the SINA-1. Instructions at the end of my review
One last sentence about the stock ROM. It is not available for download (at least I could not find it). I know of no way to reflash it or recover a bricked device. You wont find extensive help, manuals and tipps to that end. Make sure to have an appropriate backup and/or tread carefully.
I myself will investigate, if you have any insight into that topic, feel free to contact me...
Summary/Conclusion
I really like this tablet. A lot. I found it superior to the MIRA-1 in almost all aspects (especially speed, compatability, screen resolution and build quality). It has however its week points (battery run time, uneven lightning of the display).
Since it is a 10" tablet without mobile internet, it obviously was made for home usage. Browsing webpages from the couch, watching a movie while your in a room without a TV, or listening to music without bringing your stereo, add a game now and then when you are bored. This is where this tablet shines. I could imagine it being used in a work environment / office as well. And when the batterie gets low, you hook it up.
The occasional traveler should be happy as well. Get a dongle or tether it to your phone and you can surf the web in the bus/train. Hook up your headphones and watch a movie (just hope the sun doesnt shine too much). Also, dont expect the tablet to last a flight around the world without loading up...
All in all, a very decent device with a very attractive price.
So should you get it? Well, it depends...
If you have a MIRA-1 or 2 and you are really happy with them, you dont care about waiting 1-2sec for some apps. Then dont get the SINA-1
If you have ANY other single core tablet that is not up to its tasks, makes you wait for apps, annoys you in some way, yes, give the SINA-1 a try - and sell the old one for some cash...
If you are thinking about getting the MIRA-1 or 2 (or another similar single-core device), try really hard to look for the other 40 EUR and get the SINA-1. Or get the MIRA used for like half its retail (~80 EUR), but be warned about the possibility of the tablet being to slow now and then
If you have another dual-core (or more) high-end tablet, probably with a big name on it like some fruit or samsung or nexus.. Sure, buy it. whats another 200 EUR. Or dont, I dont think it will be an upgrade. Just another tablet, even if it is a decent one
the get it or dont get it reasons in the modding subsection still apply
I myself regret nothing. I watch movies in bed, I surf the web on the couch. If I am really lazy I even open up teamviewer to do 2-3 clicks on my PC without getting up. I take the tablet with me on train rides and watch a movie or surf the web with my phone tethered. And I recently started to use it at work for presentations (put my notes on it). And when I am bored, I do play a game now and then.
Mind you, I did/could have done all that with the old tablet as well. But it sure makes more fun now
End of the review---
I certainly hope that this rewritten and formated review is more informative and better on the eyes.
I think I got most of my english mistakes as well.
I hope this helps some folk decide
If you have questions, feel free to ask them here. I will try to look back now and then and answer those questions.
good day
Catwiesel, Germany
Addendum:
How to root the SINA-1
Disclaimer: no guarantee, you break it, not my fault bla bla...
First, it was not difficult. It was done by the "root with restore by bin4ry method"
step 1: enable usb-debugging and allow installing of "foreign apk's" (or whats it called in english)
step 2: get a usb driver for windows (7 x64 in my case)
step 2b: since you probably wont find a driver, modify the google drivers from the android development sdk. add the line to the google.ntx86 and ntamd64 block:
%CompositeAdbInterface% = USB_Install, USB\VID_2207&PID_0010&MI_01
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
step 3: add the file adb_usb.ini at /users/[username]/.android directory with the following line:
0x2207
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(i had to do this in my user account and in the administrator account*)
step 4: connect the tablet with your pc, make sure all drivers were installed and usb debugging is on
step 5: google, find and download the zip archive with the batch file, scripts and tools needed
(root_with_restore_by_bin4ry_v17.zip did it for me)
step 6: extract the archive, best to some easily found directory like c:\rootit
step 7: start a command line (cmd.exe) (as administrator?)
note: the actual rooting only worked for me when i started the command line as administrator
step 8: start runme.bat from c:\rootit, ch
step 9: choose method 1, wait for it to finish
(all this information was googled and very little trial and error. did not take me more than 30mins with no clue before hand whatsover)

Drivers
can you please explain how did you installed drivers?
I'm having troubles following your manual. I need sina-1 for developing but i can't connect it with adb cause drivers aren't installed correctly.

tnx for review.. I bought SINA-2 and use your method of rooting and it works.. have U tried some custom rom already? I don't know which is compatible with my device...

Does anybody know how to flash recovery or custom rom to this tablet. I have googled and nothing found. Maybe there is no recovery or custom rom for this device.

Update 9 months later
very small update after a few months of light and sporatic use:
- rechargeable batterie runtime:
I might have overestimated the runtime originally. additionally, rechargeable batteries dont get better over time...
that means that you really will be running to the charger a lot at home and should take it with you.
do not expect to be able to surf the web or watch movies the whole day without recharging.
- wireless range:
the wireless range is really really bad.
I originally stated it to be not great, but actually it is really bad.
No other device I ever had or currently have had a worse range.
expect slow transfer speeds even when directly next to the router
expect trouble even behind one wall / more than 5m away
expect no connection or unuseable for anything expect the most rudimentary stuff (getting an email) behind more then 1 wall and/or more than 5m away
--> apparently this WAS a problem with the earlier SINA-1 tablets and LC-Power will fix it. This would also mean that the newer ones should not have this problem
--> this bad wireless connection might also be a reason for the bad batterie runtime
- micro-sd:
I've had bad trouble with my 32GB MicroSD card(s) (SANDISK 32GB SDHC microSD Class 10)
the previous tablet (mira-1) took it, my even older mobile took it, the SINA-1 did not...
since my 8GB and 16GB cards were working I thought my 32gb card is incompatibel
--> A few weeks ago I could test another SINA-1 (new), no trouble with my 32gb microsd...
- Android
no new android / update has been released by LC-Power (that I can find)
- Modding:
still no real community
- Apps / Games
a few games (that might need a somewhat more powerfull device) that I can tell you are working are:
magicka, pokerstars, terraria
- built, glas, buttons
after light and cautious use over many months, the tablet can still look like new (if you clean it)
I have no scratches, no color scraping off, the buttons dont wobble. its like new
- the power-in jack
this needs a mention too, since it really is not well done. the plug fits, but will fall out very very easily.
best not to move the tablet when you have it plugged in
conclusion:
my first review still stands more or less... for its price this is a okay tablet
if the wlan is indeed being fixed and the batterie will run a bit longer for the current sold devices, this is still a good buy for ~150 EUR
since I do not really know what is wrong with the microsd issue (my tablet broken? newer tablets unaffected) I can not use it for reviewing. but be warned
HOWEVER...
there is a new LC-Power SINA-2 tablet that I will be reviewing soon...
I will post the link later

Thank you so much for sharing.

Very useful review, thank you.
Sent from my LT30p using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Front camera not supporting video calls
Hi!
I was wondering if anyone who owns this tab had any issues with incoming/outgoing video calls (via skype/facebook/ooVoo).
Fact is, I can't make video calls via any of the above software, when i try, skype just blanks out and goes to previous screen. When incoming calls arrive it does the same but it says that I have a missed call.
OoVoo on the other hand connects to video call but automatically uses the back camera instead of front.
I don't get it. Any advices/ideas?
Thx

Here you go guys This tablet got CM10.2 fully working, with stock kernel <3
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=58477955&postcount=1187
Hope this helps!
The Grüß,
H.

And Sina 2 review?

HuiFei - 2 DIN Pure Android Car Stereo Radio Head Unit - YOUR PURCHASE EXPERIENCE

All other HuiFei threads have become very cluttered and are predominantly technical / hardware discussion. This thread is dedicated to help people that are considering a purchase.
Post here your purchase experience, link to your supplier, price paid, whether you had to pay any import fees / duties, shipping time, the quality of the radio unit, fit and finish, whether you encountered any technical problems / quality issues, any customer service related comments and everything else you can think of to make the buying experience easier.
Lets NOT post anything related to troubleshooting - for this refer to the regular HuiFei thread.
This thread should be dedicated only to purchase decision, shopping experience and overall satisfaction with the unit.

May I suggest people describe their experiences after using the unit for at least few weeks. Something like "I've received the unit two days ago and it looks nice; it has this and that..." is not very helpful.
I was also excited for the first few days, then starting discovering problems, and three months later the unit died. I feel it's still too early to write about my experience. I'm waiting for a replacement part and when (if) I receive it and test it, I'll write more.
Reliability seems to be one of the main problems with all these units (my opinion, based on feedback from others, not just my own experience).

Well, at last I purchased one myself so here is my promised review. I drive 2011 Rav4, v6, base model.
This is my particular model. So this is the so called Klyde.
Purchasing from Aliexpress is quick and easy, pretty much like on eBay. I contacted a few sellers first, communication in English is always possible but, just like items descriptions on aliexpress - not always perfect.
I contacted my seller in advance and asked for two upgrades: higher resolution screen (extra $30) and a rear-view camera ($20). I am glad I did - the screen is excellent quality and the camera is great value - the picture is more than acceptable.
Upon ordering one may expect to wait at least a week until the unit is shipped. Supposedly this is for testing. Once shipped the unit arrived 3 days later. I did not have to pay any import taxes but I hear this may at times happen.
This HU is very well made, I'd say OEM quality. Installation was easy but only because of the wealth of information on this message board. The unit comes with no any instructions or manual. Installation process can be completed in less than 30 minutes - but only if you dont plan to install the camera.
I was so absorbed in the installation, sadly, I took no pictures. But one can easily find picture reference to each step that is required to install on rav4 forums.
Since I did install the camera I spent nearly the whole day in my very small garage. The camera comes attached to a replacement license plate light. You remove the old light but keep the light bulb on the wire, insert the bulb in the new holder/light and push it back in the slot above license plate. Be careful because the plastic is not the highest quality.
The wire from camera was too fat (well, the connection jack) to thread it tru the hole that already exist in the gate panel (inside) right behind and little above the license plate light. I expanded it with a drill and sprayed a few coats of clear coat. I routed wires tru the gate, tru the rubber hose coming from car to the gate (between gate hinges) and this was very, very hard because there are many cables and a windshield washer tube in this hose already.
For power I tapped into wires from the electric socket/cigarette lighter in the rear of the car.
Camera signal wire was just long enough to route it inside behind the rear plastic panel, later in the wire channel along both doors, up behind the glove box and to the unit.
I found on this forum how to locate the red wire with a reverse signal to the radio. this allows the unit to show camera picture once shifted in reverse, automatically. The unit takes about 30 seconds to boot but camera image show imediately, once shifted into D the booting process continues. 30 seconds boot is only from the cold state. Later power cycling is immediate.
All wires were simply plug and play. There is a substantial GPS antena with a large magnet. I stuck it to some kind of a metal pipe that runs across the front of the car right behind the glove box.
There are two USB extension cords included and I run them so they exit in the glove box as well. These can be used for flash drives but also for a 3g usb modem.
There is an external microphone included but I have not been able to find where to plug it in. The front AUX port does not seem to detect the microphone.
Radio reception is good, I think comparable with the original radio. There seem to be a bug in AM mode where stations' frequencies are shifted a few units - so your favorite 500 mhz station now becomes 503 or so.
The included Sygic navigation software is pirated and old. I downloaded current version from google play and I found it much better. The hardware button for navigation was not correctly assigned but this was an easy fix in settings.
The screen is more responsive than any OEM Infotainment system I used in rental cars. It is bright and crisp. However, with polarized sunglasses it is hard to see much on the screen, I think I will have to buy another sunglasses now.
There is a rather bad application for music playback. I replaced it with the free Shuttle music player from play store. I tested a few players but this seems like the best and simplest to use plus it is free.
This unit connects to home wifi or you can of course also tether to your phone. Purchasing USB modes is another option.
Bluetooth calls are at most acceptable because of the poor quality of the build-in microphone. As mentioned there is a substantial external microphone but I have found to way to connect it yet.
So far I am very happy with the purchase. I hope it will work for at least a few years.

leckig said:
Well, at last I purchased one myself so here is my promised review. I drive 2011 Rav4, v6, base model.
This is my particular model. So this is the so called Klyde.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is a great thread and we need more people join in the conversation..
I am considering buying a unit from alibaba model DG-8025
Processor Advance MStar MST786 Cortex-A9 dual core
Max.main frequency "1GHz (Neon), L1 (I/D) cache 32KB/32KB, L2
cache 512KB; 40nm LP low consumption technology"
RAM DDR3 1GB SAMSUNG
ROM 16GB
Operation system Android O/S 4.2
GPU Mali400M
Main MCU STM32F100
Power IC AS1015
It is very hard to decide which company to go with.. considering the shipping alone is $60-$80
and if you ever have to send it for warranty good luck getting it back after spending 100$ on shipping to china
so pay with credit card and install it as soon as you get it and try it as much as possible.. if there is anything wrong you should hope it shows itself fast or you are out of luck.
I am worried for the heat of summer in a grrenhouse of the car temp going north of 100F, as is these units are not well ventilated, it is a cramped up place with many CPU, GPU and other electronics producing heat that is a recipe for disaster.. so I think it is important to find a unit with a good ventilation and low heat production perhaps
the 2 main ones I see right now
RockChip RK3066 (KGL/KLD/JY/MD/GS/RM) 1.6GHz Cortex A9 Dual-core
Mstar MST786 (cedric/Mstar) 1.0 to 1.2 Ghz Cortex-A9 Dual Core
some quad core units are showing up to the party too with higher prices
the MST786 unit I found was around 360$ shipped
the RK3066 are around 420$
Quad cores around 550$
all OEM fit .
Can anyone else chime in on the reliability issue?
as for the mic, the internal microphones look to be garbage so get an external one if you care
for me Bluetooth is very important

I can only say that my unit is still working fine - but there are many little issues that are annoying. For example: bluetooth auto connect does not seem to ever work, I have to each time manually connect the phone. wifi sometimes restarts when I switch the car on, sometimes does not and I have to switch in on manually.
radio reception is not as good as OEM.
Backup camera, and this is weird, seem to have some kind of a connection problem when it is raining. I think water gets onto it somehow.
But all together this is a decent unit. I really like the navigation that is now build in. I use sygic, no, it is not as good as tomtom with routing, but it is fine.
The microphone is actually not that bad, people generally hear me fine. In my Klyde unit there is an additional external microphone but connecting it makes very little difference.