Database Info

GPS, WiFI, BT and Camera All in One Phone

:!: Sorry for the shameless attempt to get you here with a dreamy subject but it's relevant to the topic - honestly. :!:
I'm after a PDAPhone with built in everything. But looks so far like I'm going to have to compromise and get an external GPS receiver, however was just hoping someone might have a little gem that I couldn't find anywhere else in the forums.
I have owned and loved the O2 XDA range ever since my first XDA years ago and have since lugged around an XDAII. I damaged my II recently and have a nice cheque for £550 burning a hole in my pocket courtesy of the insurance company. This means that for the first time ever I don't need to go to a subsidised model. My initial thought was that I'd stump up a few extra quid and get a JamJar :lol: from expansys but now I'm a bit more mature I decided to check out the options first.
So far I've found (Ignoring Naming Variations):
Prices quoted are from expansys - they could be cheaper elsewhere. Pls let me know if you find any (UK Only though)
:arrow: iPAQ hw6515 - Looks a bit crap, small screen and no wi-fi listed but DOES have GPS & 1.3Mp Cam - Anyone know of any Square Aware issues with programs?
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=120563
:idea: £439.95
:arrow: i-mate JAM - Small and sexy but no Wi-Fi and no GPS but would stop people asking if I've got a brick taped to my head. + 1.3Mp, COuld afford external GPS with this one.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=I-MATE_JAM
:idea: £359.95
:arrow:Qtek 9090- Has everything But GPS but would leave enough money for a BT GPS - No camera spec but I think it's 0.3Mp like the XDAIIs - Could be upgraded to WM5, My Mate has one and the Thumb Keyboard is easy to use whilst walking - If I use my head not my geekometer this is my favourite.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=QTEK_9090
:idea: £414.95
:arrow: i-mate JASJAR - Dogs balls but still no GPS and not much more than the 9090 + v Expensive & Getting Bigger - 1.3Mp Cam I think. (I have no 3G service anywhere near me so that's not a bonus) I really like the 3.5mm Jack - Overall a severe number of geek points! NO CRADLE Still needs GPS Seperate, not sure how useable while walking the keyboard will be. I really want one.
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=119353
:idea: £669.95
:arrow: i-mate K-JAM - WiFi, BT etc, Smaller and lighter than Universal, WM5, 1.3Mp. I like the keyboard. Maybe my new best choice. JUST leaves enough money to think about an external GPS. Thanks JamiJam
:idea: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=125518
:idea: £504.95
My criteria to consider are as follows, argue with them and persuade me otherwise with reasons if you so wish:
Phone + PDA Essential (Tri Band+)
Camera - Prefer 1+Mp
BT - Must Have
Wi-Fi - Optional but Preferred a lot
3G - Not required
Keyboard - Like to Have (It's awkward using handwriting when travelling)
GPS - Very Nice to Have I Drive a lot and would like to use TT in the future.
OS - Not Bothered, these can be changed
I have 1 Month to decide before I burst and spray money all over the place so I'd really appreciate any comments you might have.
Don't go off on any obscure tangents though please, post them in a new topic and link to it if you wish.

Wizard...
(aka K-Jam, aka Qtek 9100)

Not sure when it will be out but Orange are going to release the Wizard and call it the SPV M600. If you can wait then you'll have it subsidised. :wink:

hmmmmm
Ok, so far the Wizard is my favourite now. I'd completely forgotten about that. What's the keyboard like though? I'm not too fussed about the size (the one on the XDA III is smaller and still useable)? It's more the key action I'm bothered about.
Does it have those rubbish 'rubbery' 'spectrum' style keys? It looks like it does.
I'm still yearning for a Universal cos none of my mates will have one but my head is still saying I don't need it and one of the others will do everything I want.

AFAIK HTC has some kind of arrangement with compaq - HTC will not make a phone with GPS as it competes with a model HTC makes for compaq that does have GPS or something like that (the hw6515 maybe ?)
I have a Blue Angel (O2 XDA IIs) and it does all of this.
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=I-MATE_III
WM5 now available and working fine on it.
It has a keyboard too, it's those blister things (more like a ZX81 than a spectrum) but it is useable, although the keyboard layout is a bit ****e.
What with the newer models coming out you should be able to pick one up cheapish.
I run mine with a Globalsat Bt-338 Bluetooth GPS and Tomtom 5

oh, and FYI, this PDA holder from halfords holds the BA perfectly and can be mounted to your dash. It obscures no ports.
(The pic is upside down BTW)
http://www.halfords.com/opd_product_details.asp?id=16600&type=0&cat=397

The keyboard on the wizard is excellent, in my humble opinion!
It also snaps in and out in a way that makes you feel it won't break down easily.
Finally, it automatically turns the phone's display into landscape mode, which is very handy.

Wizard or BA
I have to say I'm still impressed with the Wizard. Just made a scale model out of card (how sad is that) and it's tiny!
I like the BA but if the keyboard doesn't let the Wizard down I think it'll be my PDA of choice. The one thing I really didn't like about the Jam was its lack of Wi-Fi and that's solved in the K-Jam.
I assume the screen's readable, I like to think that I'll have good eyesight for a couple of years yet so I don't think the size will be an issue.

iPaq HW6515
I have tried without success to get details of the built-in GPS. The one authoritative source to whom I spoke was scathing about its performance. So whatever you do choose, I do not recommend the iPaq.
On a separate note I saw my first Jasjar close up today. It is lighter than you might think, but heavier than is reasonable for prolonged use as a phone. A bluetooth earpiece was being used that included a display for caller ID. As a data device it is pretty impressive.
I too run a GlobalSat BT-338 GPS, in my case with Mapopolis.

if you are going GPS, make sure it is SIRFstar III chipset (the current latest-and-greatest), especially if you live in a city as they are really good at "urban canyon" reception.
I have seen new BT-338s on ebay for £65 "buy it now" recently

plus another thing to think about...
a seperate BT GPS unit has various advantages:
1) Battery
It won't drain your PPC battery when operating, except the charge needed to communicate via BT.
2) Upgrading
If a new improved GPS unit comes out and you have an onboard GPS unit, you are carrying useless baggage and can't sell the old one.
Also bear in mind there will likely be new features added to GPS units.
one example: digital compass. At the moment, if you stand still and rotate, a GPS unit has no clue which way you are facing until you move. A GPS does already transmit heading AFAIK - it works out which way you are facing by assiming you are looking in the direction of travel. Integration of a digital compass therefore would probably require no changes to the protocol. This does exist ( see http://www.xemics.com/internet/solutions/compass.jsp?productID=108 )
3) Switching.
BT GPS units work on laptopss too you know
4) Safety. I use my GPS for a sport called mountain boarding. Same kinda deal as downhill mountain biking, I trace a route I have done using GPS software. I ride with my XDA in a reinforced case with foam in, but find the GPS reception suffers, so I keep the BT GPS unit in my bag and the XDA in the case.
Seeing as the XDA is MUCH more valuable than the GPS this makes sense.
5) Reception versus viewing position.
Sometimes the position with best reception is not the same as the position you can see the screen of your PPC best.

????
Good point.
Ok, more questions on the K-Jam
Camera: Says 1.3/2 Is this 1.3 with software to 'frig' it to 2?
Keyboard: Is the expansys keyboard silver ( http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=125518 ) or black ( http://www.expansys.com/zoompic.asp?type=item&code=125518 )
Silver ones look plastic whereas black ones look rubbery. Which have you got JamiJam? Is it from Expansys?
Processor: 200Mhz? Is that right? Seems quite a drop. Do you have any problems with media playback? I remember my XDA I used to have a problem playing big avi files.
Ta Very Much

Camera is 1.3MP, and it is ****.
Yes, it's better than the Magician, but it's still pretty bad. I wouldn't buy the Wizard hoping to use the camera for anything useful. In my opinion this is the #1 point on which HTC is lacking. They've worked on everything else, now they need to start putting decent cameras in these devices.
I have the silver keyboard and I bought my Wizard in a store. I believe that if you order from expansys you'll get a silver one.
Processor is 200MHz (different CPU architecture) but it seems to be on par with the Magician in practice, maybe 10% slower. So yes, you should be able to watch full screen movies, once you find a bit-rate/resolution/format that works for you. Not sure which XDA you had, but I would expect similar ballpark performance.
Hope this helps.

Ta
The 'performance lacking' XDA was the original XDA I and I'll take your word for it that performance is ok. I don't use it for anything too hot and my XDA II never had a problem with films.
To be honest, every camera phone I've had from the XDA Range was ****ty quality (Very grainy) but I spend a fair bit of time on site collecting info on wagons and stuff for my job and it's always handy to be able to snap a quick video or pic of something. The only reason I want a higher res is so that when some tit with a Sony Ericson goes on about his 2Mp camera I don't loose too many 'top trumps' points. I never print the pics and my main contract doesn't support GPRS so I don't often send MMS. You'd be surprised how easily you can still get by with just plain old WAP.
Good news on the silver buttons. I prefer them. Has anyone bought one from Expansys who can verify?

Sweetness & Joy
Just thought I'd post my decision for those of you who like seing things through to a conclusion.
After much ponderation and constructing various cardboard models I have decided on the HTC Wizard, purchased from expansys (i-Mate K-Jam). There's a delay on delivery at the moment (3 Days!!!! I can't wait) but once it arrives I'll post back with my oppinions.
I've also heard that my mate is buying the JasJar so I'll be able to make a comparison and post it back.
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:!: Come on Friday! :!:
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D'oh! Just a note not say the expansys delivery has been put back but they've dropped the price too.
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:!: Come on Some-Day! :!:
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Just been looking at some larger photos of the buttons
http://forum.xda-developers.com/files/keyboard-flash.jpg
I take back my spectrum comments, they look pretty good.

Hurrah!
Ok! I've got my Wizard at last. I ended up buying the Qtek 9100 rather than the K-Jam. Looks like I'll miss out on Club i-Mate. :-(
Thought I'd post my views on the phone here just to give closure to anyone reading this thread.
The screen is very sharp. Everything obviously is smaller because the pixels are closer together but the overall effect is a very good screen. The guy in our office with really bad eyesight liked it and he's normally a miserable git when it comes to gadgets.
I take back my comments about the keyboard, it looks fantastic, the action is really great and you can use it to type replies to text messages on the move, which is something I've always struggled with before using the Transcriber. People are also really impressed when the screen rotates thru' to landscape.
I've used it for playing some music and although the speakers built in are tinny as you'd expect, the headphones are really good. I don't know if they'd be the same for the i-Mate but they fit comfortably in my ears and have a very good sound compared to the old XDA & XDA II headphones (Not that that would be hard)!
I miss having a cradle. It was nice to be able to display your phone on your desk while it was charging. Just using a USB cable makes it all feel a bit less sexy as an experience but then you can't have everything I suppose.
The coolest thing I found was the Stylus. It's about 50mm long when it first comes out of the phone. Then you give it a little pull and it extends to... hold on let me get a ruler... 85mm. It's not as comfy to use as the XDA/XDA II styli but since i haven't used it for writing much it doesn't matter. The keyboard is so easy to pull out and use that I've only really used the stylus to point at stuff so that my fingers don't get the screen dirty. The softkeys in WM 2005 also mean that you rarely need to touch the screen.
It's a bit chunkier than I expected but still not big. It's only marginally bigger than my girlfriends Nokia 6230 and compared to an older XDA model it feels like it's tiny!
Voice recognition button on the side works really well so far. I've got about 10 contacts programmed in and it seems to be picking them up ok, even in the car.
Overall, i'm yet to find much of a fault with it. I'll try to get some piccies of bits posted sometime next week.
Feel free to ask any questions.

JASJAR II
When the damn thing releases.....of course
I really wouldnt auction my spare kidney and buy it, and then suffer with a RAM deficit! My xda 2 currently running on wm5, has 128megs ram and 32megs rom....compared to 43megs ram & rom of jasjar........one word.......RIDICULOUS!
i cant believe seeing a 7MB RAM free on a device, and i dont ever want to see it! HTC/ IMATE/ Whoever claim they put in less RAM for extended battery life....bucket of crap! I really dont care for those couple extra hours that i'd probably get, and i dont mind carrying a spare battery or a charger wherever i go....
Its a handicap which is BIG! Besides this, the Jasjar is divinely irresistable, and i cant stop oggling at it :shock:
So, i guess i'll wait for a JJ II to come out with same form factor, and somemore ram which would make the device practical....
HTC do you hear me??????
San

weeel
:shock:
RAM isn't everything. I have been using the device for a day now (Non-stop), often running WMP10, Outlook, PIE etc also playing Tomb Raider. I haven't noticed any diference between this and my XDA II which had I think 64Mb and a 400 odd MHz processor. The odd app is a trifle slow to load up but nothing more major than that.
If the battery life sacrifice is true, then it's not for this little puppy. All this usage (with wi-fi on but not actually using a wi-fi network) and the battery didn't drop below 60% yesterday (Using lightly whilst at work and heavily in the evening. I even synced using bluetooth).
Memory has crept down to 1Mb program mem free at times but I assume windows is just doing its thing because this comes back up after a while and I don't notice any drop in performance.

Re: Hurrah!
eayuwna said:
I miss having a cradle. It was nice to be able to display your phone on your desk while it was charging. Just using a USB cable makes it all feel a bit less sexy as an experience but then you can't have everything I suppose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This site: http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/5735.htm claims that this desktop charger/cradle is compatible with the K-Jam so if that's true then it should be OK for your QTek. 8)

Touch Cruise Review

Here are the review contents (posted at OnTheGoSolutions.com)
More photos and extended comments after two weeks of use are still to come. Check back later to this thread.
This phone has impressed everyone who has seen and held it.

That was a good 'teaser' review. I read it earlier on your post in the General and thought it was excellent for the size. And as always we want more so I can't wait for more
Couple of questions re driving:
1. How does the GPS perform at motorway speeds (if you had a chance to try it) say between 55-70MPH?
2. Does the mirror-like finish bother you, whilst driving, i.e. bright city lights or a high beam from a car behind?
Cheers.

And another question. Since this is also a Qualcomm same as the TyTn II what about the behaviour of the drivers and their incompatibility for video playback. Has HTC corrected the problem or issued just another half-cooked device.

real pictures prototype and production unit
http://smartmobilegadgets.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/htc-pxxxx-polaris/
enjoy

srmz said:
And another question. Since this is also a Qualcomm same as the TyTn II what about the behaviour of the drivers and their incompatibility for video playback. Has HTC corrected the problem or issued just another half-cooked device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not aware of the video playback problems with the TyTnII. I will try to read more about this.
I have tested video playback with the Cruise and it seems reasonable for a 400 MHz device. I also have the Qtek 9000 (HTC Universal) at 520MHz and the Dopod U1000 ( HTC Athena) at 624MHz. Both are VGA devices. I have a test video, a full length movie, which is encoded for 640x480 resolution. All 3 devices running WM6 and WMPlayer run this video reasonably well. The Cruise has at times a slightly noticable lag with lip sync. This comes and goes during the movie, but is not that distracting. There were no issues with lockup or freezing. Playback was tested in full screen. I re-encoded the video for 320x240 and the sync issue was gone. I find that encoding is a major part of perceived playback problems. Perhaps this should be the topic of a different thread.
Bottom line, it looks like the Cruise palys back video fine.

Abbsta said:
That was a good 'teaser' review. I read it earlier on your post in the General and thought it was excellent for the size. And as always we want more so I can't wait for more
Couple of questions re driving:
1. How does the GPS perform at motorway speeds (if you had a chance to try it) say between 55-70MPH?
2. Does the mirror-like finish bother you, whilst driving, i.e. bright city lights or a high beam from a car behind?
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ran the GPS for a full 70 mile commute, side by side with a BMW iDrive Nav. Apart from the different softwares projecting slightly different routes, the positional differences were negligible. Speed, bearing, distance and locations were spot on. By the way, I got home at the same time on both devices!!! I'm not sure what you have experienced with other devices at motorway speeds, but with the software I use and with this phone, no problems.
As for the mirror finish, I don't have a need for a car cradle since my vehicles have integrated BlueTooth and Nav already installed. I would imagine that in the right circumstances, the mount position, the direction of travel, view of the sun, etc..., could temporarily create a glare porblem. I would think this to be a random and obscure issue, no worse of a cure than slightly adjusting your review mirror up or down if the lights behind you are a problem.
By the way, since you live in the UK, why be overly concerned with the three days of the summer that have direct, bright sun??? ( I lived in Leeds for three years )

@finesse asks these Questions:
1. Can you please take and post some pictures?
2. Have you experienced any problems with video playback & driver problems like the Kaiser?
3. Do you need to download gps info for the gps to work?
4. What is your opinion on the processor so far? battery killer? omap 200mhz on steroids?
5. Since you been using the phone for a while now, what are your pro's and con's?
Answers:
1) One new photo is attached. Is there something particular you want to see in a photo? Apart from the front face, it is pretty much what you expect to see.
2) See post above on video playback, no problems for me with this
3) Not really sure of your question on downloading GPS info, but the phone did not come with GPS software. I added Ostia by PharosGPS for my testing. This works exceptionally well with any PDA / phone I have evaluated.
4) I think the processor is superb. The phone is far more responsive than the original HTC Touch with the 201 MHz OMAP. I would not even think to play video on that one. In my experience, 400 MHz is near the bottom end for good video. As for the battery, I'm getting through the work day and still having 40-50% left with normal use (whatever that means). The battery is 1350mAH compared to 1100 mAH on the original Touch.
5) I will stand by my initial review for now as far as the pros and cons are concerned. No hidden downsides have imerged. I did not specifically state it but Touch Phones are fingerprint magnets (duh). So far though, not a scratch on it.

Hi Raskell,
You know I may be asking for too much but could you do a test for me. Can you please check what data transfer speeds can the Cruise reach with the EDGE network. Please note EDGE and not 3G. I am asking this as my TyTn II cannot get higher than 100 Kbs. When I place the sameSIM in my Touch, I can reach 200 Kbs. I have done these tests repeatedly but always the Touch is almost twice as fast compared to the TyTn II. Actually this is one of the reasons that I now want to dispose off my TyTn II and get the Cruise instead.
My only fear is that since both have Qualcomm processors and if my problem is because of the Qualcomm processor then changing to the Cruise may not be my solution.
I shall be extremely obliged and appreciate your help.

Speeds
@srmz
Using http://bandwidthplace.com/speedtest
HSDPA - 492kBps average of 3 tests 492/507/478
Edge - 208kBps average of 3 tests 178/239/208
Both tested using Opera Browser and nothing else running in the background.
(From my location with 2 bars of signal showing)
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the speed tests. I am sure I will get one as soon as it is available in my country. Thanks once again

Is the screen viewable under bright sunlight?
Hi Raskell,
There was the debate on the "transflectiveness" of the Kaiser screen. What is your experience with the cruise. How is the screen readability outdoors compared with proven true transflective screens? I am not an expert in these terms, but I simply want to know if you have to squint to read the screen under bright sunshine

victoradjei said:
Hi Raskell,
There was the debate on the "transflectiveness" of the Kaiser screen. What is your experience with the cruise. How is the screen readability outdoors compared with proven true transflective screens? I am not an expert in these terms, but I simply want to know if you have to squint to read the screen under bright sunshine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is another thread over in the General area titled HTC Cruise is Here which was started before the Polaris was added. This phone is easily readable in direct sun and has also been tested beneath 250W Metal Halide bulbs at 6 inches, bot 20,000Kelvin (blue) rated and 13,000Kelvin (white) rated. The screen remains clearly viewable. I see no problem with this phone, unlike my HP digital camera which disappears under a flashlight!

Thanks for the info.
raskell said:
By the way, since you live in the UK, why be overly concerned with the three days of the summer that have direct, bright sun??? ( I lived in Leeds for three years )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I live in London. We get few more days

raskell said:
By the way, since you live in the UK, why be overly concerned with the three days of the summer that have direct, bright sun??? ( I lived in Leeds for three years )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is more to do with driving in dusk/dawn.
And if your car has a cream interior like mine then the problem becomes very pronouncing...

raskell
Thanks for taking time to do your review!!
1 more question....
Have you got used to not having a ''windows'' and ''ok'' button?
raskell said:
@finesse asks these Questions:
1. Can you please take and post some pictures?
2. Have you experienced any problems with video playback & driver problems like the Kaiser?
3. Do you need to download gps info for the gps to work?
4. What is your opinion on the processor so far? battery killer? omap 200mhz on steroids?
5. Since you been using the phone for a while now, what are your pro's and con's?
Answers:
1) One new photo is attached. Is there something particular you want to see in a photo? Apart from the front face, it is pretty much what you expect to see.
2) See post above on video playback, no problems for me with this
3) Not really sure of your question on downloading GPS info, but the phone did not come with GPS software. I added Ostia by PharosGPS for my testing. This works exceptionally well with any PDA / phone I have evaluated.
4) I think the processor is superb. The phone is far more responsive than the original HTC Touch with the 201 MHz OMAP. I would not even think to play video on that one. In my experience, 400 MHz is near the bottom end for good video. As for the battery, I'm getting through the work day and still having 40-50% left with normal use (whatever that means). The battery is 1350mAH compared to 1100 mAH on the original Touch.
5) I will stand by my initial review for now as far as the pros and cons are concerned. No hidden downsides have imerged. I did not specifically state it but Touch Phones are fingerprint magnets (duh). So far though, not a scratch on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

finesse said:
Thanks for taking time to do your review!!
1 more question....
Have you got used to not having a ''windows'' and ''ok'' button?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that's something I am worried about... I like the Touch Cruise but not the choice of removing so many hardware buttons... I don't want to use my fingers for everything!
I have a Trinity and I use the "windows" and "ok" buttons heavily... actually the Trinity has even a second "ok" button on the left side but I don't use that very often.
Edit: oh well... I have noticed that the two soft buttons have gone too!

raskell said:
There is another thread over in the General area titled HTC Cruise is Here which was started before the Polaris was added. This phone is easily readable in direct sun and has also been tested beneath 250W Metal Halide bulbs at 6 inches, bot 20,000Kelvin (blue) rated and 13,000Kelvin (white) rated. The screen remains clearly viewable. I see no problem with this phone, unlike my HP digital camera which disappears under a flashlight!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strictly judging from your hands-on comments and I've read them all attentively, I think Polaris is THE device to put every other, including the iPhone, to shame. Congrats to you for a magnificent device and perhaps HTC if production models are anything like yours.

Is the battery the same as that of the Kaiser?
raskell said:
There is another thread over in the General area titled HTC Cruise is Here which was started before the Polaris was added. This phone is easily readable in direct sun and has also been tested beneath 250W Metal Halide bulbs at 6 inches, bot 20,000Kelvin (blue) rated and 13,000Kelvin (white) rated. The screen remains clearly viewable. I see no problem with this phone, unlike my HP digital camera which disappears under a flashlight!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Raskell for the information.
I would also like to know if the battery is the same as that of the Kaiser. I see on expansys when I looked up the touch cruise accessories that it is the same as that listed for the kaiser

More Bandwidth testing data
Using http://utilities.globequest.com.ph/
Cruise (Edge & IExplorer) -> 605 Kbps (469/661/667)
Cruise (HSDPA & IExplorer) -> 746 Kbps (726/779/733)
Cruise (HSDPA & Opera) -> 145 Kbps (148/143/143)
Cruise (WiFi - phone off) -> 712 Kbps (724/680/733) **Using AT&T DSL and LinkSys WRT54G router**
This particular test site seems to be better configured for IExplorer. The prior test data from bandwidthplace would not run with IE. It is offline today so I can't retest.
Bottom line => Touch Cruise cruises the internet.

@finese
wrote: raskell
Thanks for taking time to do your review!! 1 more question....
Have you got used to not having a ''windows'' and ''ok'' button?
Answer: Not much to get used to, I never used them with my other devices.
If you really must have a button, the main action in the jog wheel acts as the 'OK' button. You can also configure GPS/Messaging button to be the 'Start' button. So they are there if you really want them.

Considering Orbit 2...a few questions

I currently have a Blue Angel and I'm considering upgrading to an Orbit 2.
How would the performance compare between the 2? They're both 400MHz, but I just wondered how the Qualcomm is compared to the XScale?
Apart from the video driver issue, are there any other problems with it? I'd mainly be usig it for a phone, and running Tomtom.
Thanks!

Seriously... Don't bother!

LOL...it's that bad?
Can you explain why?

You will miss your qwerty. I don't know your Blue Angel, But my TC (i think all PocketPCs) has a delay when somebody calls you. Your phone will ring/vibrate after the one who calls you hears the first ring. So if somebody just gives you a call with one ring (bip) you won't hear it! Is it the same in your case, or mine is special? Maybe somebody else with TC can confirm/infirm this...

Yea, mine sort of have that sort of dealy.
I don't use my QWERTY keyboard anyway so that's not a problem.

the_scotsman said:
LOL...it's that bad?
Can you explain why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just everything about it...
The build quality is terrible. Feels like a new hobbyist threw it together in 5 mins.
It seriously underperforms compared to my Old SE P990i and older XDA's
The modifications o2 have made to the software are rubbish.
I'm miffed I didn't hold out for the SE X1i

^ In your opinion, yes its not perfect, the screen is less than ideal but the build quality is great I think. Much better than my old SE P series phone which used to creak whenever squeezed etc and the flush screen is better than orbit 1
But I would hold out for the Diamond

I want the built in GPS, and the Diamond prices ae too much for what it is...
Any other decent HTCs with built in GPS?

the_scotsman said:
I currently have a Blue Angel and I'm considering upgrading to an Orbit 2.
How would the performance compare between the 2? They're both 400MHz, but I just wondered how the Qualcomm is compared to the XScale?
Apart from the video driver issue, are there any other problems with it? I'd mainly be usig it for a phone, and running Tomtom.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just switched from a Hermes/Tytn to the Orbit2. HardSPL'd it and installed the WM6.1 that's been floating about here and installed TomTom.
Losing the keyboard is a bit annoying (on screen is usable, but nowhere near as good) - but I realized I very rarely typed anything and smaller sized massively outweighs it.
GPS works very well - especially as Quick GPS which really does work.
Downsides:
Lost keyboard.
Upsides:
GPS - now just not having to lug around and charge my BT GPS module, but now much faster and lets me do all manner of stuff (geo-tag photos with a reg tweak), GPS trackers allowing me to see where I've been in google maps blah blah.
Much better camera - not so much the 2M -> 3M change - but AUTOFOCUS.
SMALLER - now it's not a small phone, but it's not an f'in brick like the last one.
No real difference noticed between the processors. Latest 6.1 I put on my Hermes made it lovely and snappy - and performs exactly the same on the Polaris. Only reservation I've got with the polaris is the screen res (i.e. same old rubbish). Not entirely convinced Hi-res WM is much better though after playign with colleagues PDAs - I've got an ipod touch and THAT is what i'd want somehow wedged into my phone..
In summary, if you want a phone now, I'd definitely get the XDA. If you can wait maybe see how Diamond and 3G iPhone stack up.
#edit - and build quality on my XDA (at least) is perfect. Nice solid feeling thing, love the slightly rubberized case.

Thanks very much for your opinion...I think I might just go with the Orbit 2 after all...a VGA screen would be nice, but I'm happy enough to have the standard one...and it's a little smaller than my BLue Angel so that's always a benefit.

Seriously this is an outstanding device. Software is software and any issues can 99% of the time be sorted with it and normally are, especially when you browse around these forums. Also bare in mind that all these devices now use windows mobile so I don't understand why someone would fault the Orbit 2 over another windows mobile device because of the software it comes with.....anyway the hardware itself is exceptional, I've posted a mini review if you look through my post history and there's plenty of in-depth reviews out there.
Losing the keyboard is a good thing in my opinion. A keyboard isn't necessary, its just as easy (if not easier) to use the software input (my personal preference is a T9 style pad that learns words and is very quick to use with just one hand like a normal phone) and obviously you save on weight and bulk.
The Orbit 2 looks great, is extremely responsive and comfortable to use and in my opinion is the best windows mobile device availible at this time.
Quick edit! - regarding the SW, the rom that the O2 Orbit 2 comes with is actually fine anyway, i've never encountered any issues with it - it would be nice to have the threaded SMS that 6.1 has but aside from that its fine and works great. Cheers!

SOunds like you're pretty damn happy with it then
So the 200MHz processor isn't an issue? Still responds well? Thing like TOmtom run well?

The Orbit 2 has a 400MHz CPU, it was the original Orbit that had 200 -it also has twice the amount of memory. TomTom was perfectly useable on the original Orbit but it noticeably runs smoother on the Orbit 2 - The Orbit 2 is a lot better at managing multiple tasks at the same time.
I was in two minds before upgrading becasue I had the original Orbit and wasn't sure if I'd get my money's worth. I was going to send it back if I wasn't happy with it. I'm more than happy with it though as you can tell! its a great device. You've always got that 14 day cooling period with O2 anyway so you may as well give it a go for yourself.

doh...you're right...I was thinking of the original Orbit.
No 14 day cooling off for me..I'm in Australia so the only way to get at a decent price is eBay.
I think I've been convinced to get the Orbit 2...just a pity it doesn't have VGA...and the diamond will probably be a fair amount more than the Orbit 2

Actually a the Diamond will be cheaper then the Polaris/Orbit2... But my oppinion is that the VGA is too much on a 2.8" screen...

The Orbit 2 is a damn good toy... after tuning the cache and graphic settings..speed was even better than before..
also gps works great...a lot of stuff in a small little case...

I am also happy with my orbit 2, copilot in mo is better then tomtom i have both installed.
I like golive's interface and extra settings plus the website for tracking is a good feature.
The Software available is none stop from here and other sources, unlike the iphone i had that you could only load decentish software if you hacked it..
a couple of minor gripes, the screen is a little shiny for sunny day use and the camera could be alot better.
apart from that i am very happy with it, let hops the diamond touch flo 3d becomes available then that will make this device look great.
the hsdpa speed is great when in the right areas, 50k download speed from my laptop...
the gps seems acurate enough, fast on a warm start as well.
its performance could be a little better but overall its very good.
I would install opera mini as i have found this much better then ie and opera mobile for day to day use.
as for the missing keyboard, try touchpal or the diamond keyboards, also make sure you adjust the sensivity of the screen do a search on here, i think the keyboard is great been software as you can load loads of different types and type quicker with the stylus on some over a flip out keyboard.
the flip out keyboard types can be a little thicker as well you cannot replace or remap keys like a software keyboard so there are plus's and minus's to both concepts...
if you type alot then get a bluetooth keyboard, or a laptop.....
i don't think you will b unhappy with your purchase...

Actually imho any HTC device when just introduced will very rarely be upto my expectation and initially i am always dissapointed,for the first few days,its just a matter of customizing(a heart felt thanks to this forum for teaching us how too) to our personal choice and then i just can't seem to live without them.When i took the Cruise i returned it the next day,very dissapointed with the handset,nothing it could do(and in the factory state it could'nt domuch)was enough,I thought that my Kaiser was far better,then after going through the Cruise forum went and picked it up again,customized it and now wonder how did I ever think negatively abbout this handset,I just love it the feel of it in my hand and also the perfomance,ended up keeping both the Kaiser and Cruise without regrets.

Any love here for the Samsung Mondi?

Interesting device imo:
http://samsung.letstalk.com/product/product.htm?prId=35487
Running WinMo 6.1

It is not a phone , so in my opinion we have far better alternatives here on the board..
Please note, this device is not a phone and does not come with voice capability.
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Phen0m said:
Interesting device imo:
http://samsung.letstalk.com/product/product.htm?prId=35487
Running WinMo 6.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that was voice capable i would be all over it.

it has a microphone built in, so it could has the potential to be used as a phone as well. All that it needs is an app that would allow you to use voip

I've been lurking these boards for a long while (HP iPAQ hx4700 power user usually looking for cooked WM6.1 ROMs), but now I'm compelled to chime in for once.
We need more devices like this. NOT a traditional phone (we have way too many of those now), WiMAX if you want to subscribe to use it, large WVGA screen, only 450 US$ unsubsidized where most unlocked phones of this caliber are 600 US$ or more and with smaller screens...I could go on. (And having Windows Mobile 6.1 instead of 6.5 doesn't worry me at all because of these here forums.)
My hx4700 is getting long in the tooth; 64 MB of RAM does not cut it anymore, and it just can't run WM6.1 all that well, let alone WM6.5. This is the replacement device I've been looking for, so long as I can make sure that I can use it in portrait orientation. (All of the images I've seen of it are in landscape.)
I do not have a smartphone; I'm not even allowed to have one, or at least have one and use the phone bits. Why should I be forced to pay the premium for a phone modem I'll never use, and also suffer from the other disadvantages of the smartphone trend, like devices that have midget-sized screens to accomodate what would be considered an acceptable phone size? It wasn't until a few years ago that Windows Mobile smartphones in general could even stand on par with the HP iPAQ hx4700, or the Dell Axim X50v/X51v, or other such devices, and they were still way more expensive! (The HTC Universal was more the exception than the rule in terms of specs, but HTC has consistently failed to bring back that design...)
Show me a Windows Mobile smartphone with this basic size, form factor, and large WVGA screen, similar internal specs, and only a 450 US$ or less price tag WITHOUT SUBSIDY/CONTRACT, and maybe then I'll change my mind.

^^ Fragger, i have the Mondi & i absolutely love it! I'll go into detail or answer questions if you have any.. but this device would be a great to any winmo users lineup..Large screen/res, great keyboard, dedicated D-Pad, HDMI-out, GPS etc etc..
Also, its nearly the same size as an iphone, with a larger screen and physical keyboard:
4.8 x 3.03 x 0.63 5.8oz
4.5 x 2.4 x 0.48 4.8oz
Only downside so far is not having a community, as i would love to get WinMo 6.5 on this thing.

You have one now? Great! Now brace yourself for the questions...
-How's battery life? One of the things I like about my current hx4700 is that it's very long-lived, even on the stock battery.
-It does go into portrait mode like every other WM device, right? If so, can you set it up to be more like the HTC slider phones in the sense that closed keyboard = portrait, open keyboard = landscape?
-Built-in GPS, huh? Guess I may not need my Bluetooth GPS receiver (MTK-based, 5 Hz refresh rate, solar-charged), then. How's the initial acquisition time, accuracy, reception, and general latency? (I remember hearing a lot of complaints about lag on the integrated GPS on HTC Touch Pros. Different device, but I'd still hope that I wouldn't have that issue.)
-The format support sounds pretty robust out of the box, which is especially great since it has HDMI-out. Are you content with just Samsung's media player, or have you felt the need to break out TCPMP for certain files?
-Going along the lines of HDMI-out, I take it that it can output at least 720p over it with an H.264/AVC-encoded file and not have any dropped frames?
-The "great keyboard" bit sounds like it has good tactile feedback and a good layout, which is reassuring. Is there anything I may not catch about it at first glance? (For instance, while I doubt it has this feature, I really would like it if I could capitalize letters just by holding the key down instead of hitting Shift first. Never seen that trick implemented outside of the Palm Tungsten|C, and it really cuts down on the redundant keystrokes.)
-Does the build quality feel good throughout the device? Solid feel, no loose parts? Tight slider mechanism? That sort of thing?
-How does the digitizer feel? It's obviously resistive, but some resistive digitizers feel harder or softer than others.
-How could Samsung give out a specs list and NOT mention how much RAM (program memory) it has? Since you have it, you could probably give me an accurate figure. (I'm expecting at least 128 MB by now, but the more, the merrier-especially if it matches or exceeds the 288 MB on the HTC Touch Pro!)
-Can I get the normal Today screen in case I want to use PocketBreeze and/or iLauncher like I do on my hx4700? (The latter, I may be able to do without if Samsung customized it right, but I have to have PocketBreeze for easy PIM access.)
As for the lack of community, give it some time. The device just released, and even in spite of the general disinterest due to it NOT being a phone (actually one of the more compelling reasons for a few of us), I'm sure that someone with the skills has one and is working on how to flash a custom ROM onto it so we can enjoy some WM6.5. (I mean, the hx4700 and the Dell Axim X50v/X51v are still getting lots of attention in the Upgrades, Modifying, and Unlocking forum despite not being phones! Who's to say that the Mondi can't get that kind of love once someone opens the door?)

Some this stuff i will have to answer when i get off, but:
-How's battery life?
Thus far seems very good thus far & charges fast via usb or wall. I haven't done a full drain yet, but seems to be roughly 5 hours or so(this is watching video via orb)
-It does go into portrait mode like every other WM device, right? If so, can you set it up to be more like the HTC slider phones in the sense that closed keyboard = portrait, open keyboard = landscape?
Theres an option to auto-rotate in opera(accelerometer built-in), but i cant find an actual button that locks it in to portrait/landscape. The screen also doesnt auto rotate when u move it.
-The format support sounds pretty robust out of the box, which is especially great since it has HDMI-out. Are you content with just Samsung's media player, or have you felt the need to break out TCPMP for certain files?
I havent used samsungs media player only Kinoma thus far, but the video and audio output is very good imo(im not an audiophile however), the other device i own along these lines is the Nokia N810, and the sound on here is far superior.
-The "great keyboard" bit sounds like it has good tactile feedback and a good layout, which is reassuring. Is there anything I may not catch about it at first glance? (For instance, while I doubt it has this feature, I really would like it if I could capitalize letters just by holding the key down instead of hitting Shift first. Never seen that trick implemented outside of the Palm Tungsten|C, and it really cuts down on the redundant keystrokes.)
The tactile feedback is very good as well.. there is a slider that lets you control the strength.. however you cant just turn it on for the keyboard, its either on or off. The key's(hardware kb) cannot be capped by holding it down as theyre double mapped to symbols as well. There is a dedicated caps key though(on the hardware keyboard)
-Does the build quality feel good throughout the device? Solid feel, no loose parts? Tight slider mechanism? That sort of thing?
Build quality is superb, feels like a high quality smartphone.. good weight, smooth, no squeaks etc.
-How does the digitizer feel? It's obviously resistive, but some resistive digitizers feel harder or softer than others.
The screen feels similar to an HTC device.. soft, but not TOO soft, its also pretty accurate.
-How could Samsung give out a specs list and NOT mention how much RAM (program memory) it has? Since you have it, you could probably give me an accurate figure. (I'm expecting at least 128 MB by now, but the more, the merrier-especially if it matches or exceeds the 288 MB on the HTC Touch Pro!)
256 mem/4GB storage + MicroSD slot
-Can I get the normal Today screen in case I want to use PocketBreeze and/or iLauncher like I do on my hx4700?
Yes, set the Today screen to Windows default or Windows 6.1. There is also a dedicated "Home" key on the screen bezel that shoots you right to your desktop.
Anything i haven't answered above, i will when i get home later! There is also a blog on the front page of Pocketables.com that may answer so of these questions and more.
And yeah i'm hoping we can get a community of some capacity going on this device.. WM 6.5 on this hardware will be outstanding.

Oh, speaking of buttons, which ones can you rebind? And of those that can be rebound, how many let you press-and-hold for a different function? (For example, all of my hx4700's face buttons have a press function and a held function. Rotation is one of the held functions.)
As for no capping with a press-and-hold on the thumbboard because of symbols, that's no excuse because the Tungsten|C's thumbboard also has symbol mapping on all the letter keys, which had to be used with a shift/Fn button-that is, unless Samsung set it so that held keypresses trigger the symbols rather than capitalize letters. (Most thumbboards I've seen on pocket devices just repeat a letter when you hold the key down. I don't see much point in that.)
256 MB of RAM? That's enough for WM6.5 and then some! I could easily have a Web browser with a few tabs, media player, SoftMaker Office, and who knows what else going on at the same time with that much...
Normally, I'd complain about the microSDHC slot pretty hard, but the 4 GB of internal storage helps offset that and my largest full-size SD card is only 2 GB. (I only have one microSD card, and it's just 1 GB. Wouldn't really add anything significant.) In short, I could easily cram most of my music and videos on the internal flash alone. (What I don't like, though, is that they only have 90 MB or so set aside for apps. I'd like to see that doubled, perhaps even tripled so that I can have more apps installed there simultaneously, even if it does infringe on the rest of the storage mapped like a memory card. (Also, you can pass off the bulk of internal storage as a USB drive out of the box, right? No ActiveSync/WMDC needed?)
All in all, though, I'm beyond sold at this point. I just need 450 US$. (It'll probably be at least a month before I can afford it, though, and that's if I succeed in selling the hx4700 and all of its accessories for around 200 US$ or more.)

Oh, speaking of buttons, which ones can you rebind? And of those that can be rebound, how many let you press-and-hold for a different function?
Camera(short/long press)
IE explorer button(short/long)
Message(short/long)
Thats by default. I use an app called AEbutton plus that lets me remap everykey to my liking
And so far its a been a good purposeful purchase.. Office looks great on the screen, and kinetic scrolling is enabled throughout the entire o/s somehow(i dont remember 6.1 having kinetic scrolling in explorer etc. on my phones.)

Kinetic scrolling is also present in the Alkor RC 2.2 WM6.1 ROM for the hx4700. I don't know exactly where it came from, but it seems to be standard fare on new Windows Mobile devices. (I just wish I could disable it only in Resco Explorer 2007 and leave it on everywhere else, because it makes multi-selection difficult.)
Oh, almost forgot about the camera, since I'm not used to having one of those on a pocket computer. How's the quality, both for stills and video recordings? Is the camera button double-detent like on dedicated cameras (push it lightly for autofocus, push it down all the way to actually shoot)? Not common on devices like this, but I'm pretty sure one of the HTC phones (Kaiser/Tilt?) had just that.
I can just see myself with one of these right now. Does just about everything fairly well, can come with me where the TC1100 (Tablet PC) can't, and when Clearwire expands the Atlanta coverage to the point where I'm covered at home, I may end up with a VoIP phone and mobile information terminal down the road whenever I can afford the subscription, not to mention the possibilities with WMWifiRouter.
Finally, you said Kinoma. Free version, or pay version? Never experimented with the WM versions, but I did buy Kinoma Player 4 EX for the aforementioned Tungsten|C so that I could stream video over Wi-Fi with it. (It would be nice if they offered a discount for platform switches like that...)

orb3000 said:
this forum is for HTC devices only.
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the thing looks good, but it's huge.

It's truly smaller than you think.. as i said.. it's not much bigger than an iphone:
http://www.pocketables.net/2009/07/samsung-mondi-size-comparisons.html

Phen0m said:
It's truly smaller than you think.. as i said.. it's not much bigger than an iphone:
http://www.pocketables.net/2009/07/samsung-mondi-size-comparisons.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your right, not as bad as i had assumed. don't think it will fit in my pocket though.
wonder what it looks like next to the Tp2.

-It does go into portrait mode like every other WM device, right? If so, can you set it up to be more like the HTC slider phones in the sense that closed keyboard = portrait, open keyboard = landscape?
Found a simple program that rotates the screen instantly
-Built-in GPS, huh? How's the initial acquisition time, accuracy, reception, and general latency?
It's very average.. in the route 66 program the locks are pretty swift, on googlemaps, livesearch(bing) they're very slow. I'm about to try igo and iguidance.
How's the quality, both for stills and video recordings? Is the camera button double-detent like on dedicated cameras (push it lightly for autofocus, push it down all the way to actually shoot)?
The camera is either exactly like the Touch Pro's or slightly below that.. it's not great by any stretch and has no flash unfortunately. The upside is that there are two of them on board for skypeing, videoconferencing, webcam shows etc.
Finally, you said Kinoma. Free version, or pay version? (It would be nice if they offered a discount for platform switches like that...)
Pay version via trialpay: http://kinoma.com/play/
Whatever trial you signup for, just cancel it before the trial period ends.

The only thing that Samsung Mondi's got going for me is the large screen and that it's capable of fitting in the pant pocket.

so its not a phone, but it has a mic? :/

sightpress said:
so its not a phone, but it has a mic? :/
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Click to collapse
No traditional radio onboard, but it can be usable as a VOIP phone.

And I'm thankful that there isn't a traditional phone radio onboard to jack the price up with something that I don't need. (If it did have the phone radio, it would cost 600+ US$ unsubsidized easily, not 450 US$.) VoIP is the future anyway, especially when WiMAX coverage starts spreading out.
Another question: how does it handle apps that aren't made for the extra width (generally 320x240 or 640x480)? They just run letterboxed, right? (Anything based on the standard Windows Mobile UI would just have extra dead space, I know that much.)
I still haven't been fortunate enough to use one, and I'm still well short of affording one, but I'll scrounge up the cash somehow. (I just need to find a willing buyer for my old Tungsten|C and my hx4700. Won't get me there all the way, but it'll help a lot.)

Mondi
I got the Mondi after looking for something like it for two years. I needed the largest possible pocketable screen plus hardware keyboard for a couple applications I run and resistive stylus for Chinese handwriting input. Mondi fit most of my needs perfectly and I've found I even do most of my voice calling using Mondi+voip. The only thing I hesitated on before buying and still don't have an answer for is how much of the XDA stuff I'll be able to take advantage of given this is a WM Classic device and Samsung Touchwiz-2 instead of HTC. Does anyone know whether I'll be able to use any of the WM 6.5 stuff from XDA or does having "Classic" put me out of luck?
BTW, I paid $359 for mine which is around what an iPaq 211 goes for.

Fuze (Raphael) compared to Tilt (Kaiser)

This question is for those that have owned and used both or those very familiar with both:
How does the Fuze compare to the Tilt?
I found the obvious, like the accel sensor, light sensor, trackball, and VGA resolution.
I found reviews that indicated the Fuze to be as thick as the Tilt, just squared off a bit in overall form. (The Tilt is fairly thick, as modern phones go.)
I've picked up a couple used Tilts to play with, one from a forum member.
I'm thinking, though, I'd like the accel sensor for added capability and the VGA screen.
There is a used Fuze available locally that I'm tempted to snag, but I don't know how much I would gain.
For my use, it is an absolute MUST that the phone be capable of operating on 2100MHz. (for use in Japan)
I'm NOT interested in an iphone, especially for price reasons.
The Tilt replaced carrying a phone, GPS, and PDA.
Thanks.

I've owned both.. and first up, the Fuze does not ahve a track ball... not sure where you heard that..
Over all, I am happy withthe Fuze.. it replaced my tilt that I has for 2+ years... the tilt is a great great phone, as you know..
The fuze is noticibley faster (Exspecially running the Energy rom).. the screen really is a lot crisper for images... It has GPS just like the Tilt (I use TomTom on both)... There area few less hard buttons on the face of the fuze..... And my old nintendo emulators no longer work with it ;(... over all though, it looks more modern and is a good fit in my hand.... the light sensor and g sensor are very cool.. one neat feature is if I am on the phone, the scren automatically turns off when ti is upto my ear... and comes on when I take it away... also, if you ae i na call, and place the phone face down o na non-clear glass table, it automatically turns on the speaker phone... Also, it auto-adnusts the backlight depending on how bright it is in the room you are in.. which is nice...
I hope this is helpful... Although I do miss my cool tilting screen....

Thanks for the reply.
Sorry about the term "trackball." I meant "trackpad," as opposed to the larger, squarer control on the Tilt.
(at least it looks like a trackpad in the pictures)
I don't text much, if at all, so the sliding keyboard and tilting screen feature haven't been standout features for me. I happened upon the first Tilt when I needed a cheap, used phone that would work in the US (AT&T + T-Mobile) and in Japan. (UMTS2100) When I started playing with it, I was very pleasantly surprised at how much better and smaller it was as a PDA. (replaced Dell Axim)
As a GPS, it replaced a PND that was hacked to allow OS access for OziExplorer installation. (made my own maps for Japan, offroading, hunting, hiking, etc.) It certainly isn't a big enough screen for regular, in-car GPS use, though.
I bought the 2nd Tilt when I found out the 1st (ebay) Tilt had a defective USB port. (of course the USB audio problem was NOT disclosed in the auction details and I had already left positive feedback - grrrrrr ) I couldn't get both audio channels through the USB port and decided that the significant battery drain of using a BT headset wasn't desirable. (and an extended battery would only add to the already portly thickness)
For my last trip to Japan, the Tilt performed the following functions, in approximate descending order of use:
GPS (I did a lot of wandering around on my own)
Translation dictionary
MP3 player
cellphone
camera (as a camera, the Tilt flat-out sucked, so I also carried my pocketable Fuji )

Well, the Fuze camera (or atleast this software) seem to take better pictures than the Tilt did.... Also, I thought my tilts screen was big enough for in car navigation.. but to each their own I guess... I am sure you will like your Fuze....