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Dear all,
Due to the proliferation of new ROM's, the Wizard forum is in need of a bit of housekeeping. The mods cannot do this alone, so we are asking for your help.
1) The four most used kitchens have been stickied for the moment and questions regarding any ROM's you cook based on these kitchens should be posted in the appropriate thread. Please do not start a separate thread. Anichillus Core Professional kitchen is also found in the Development and Hacking forum since it is used for multiple devices and is beyond the scope of many basic users. Users beware. I may de-sticky the kitchens upon further discussions with the mods, but right now the structure will stand as it is.
2) On the same note, I'm asking for kitchen authors to notify me or other mods concerning useless posts in these threads (e.g. Why didn't you include "x" application? or posts that are inflammatory or non-technical in nature). They will promptly be deleted as we shouldn't have to wade through 20 posts of BS to get to relevant tech info.
3) All of the kitchens stickied are based wholly or in part on Bepe's tools and are of the same basic architecture. Therefore no more kitchens will be stickied unless they are truly unique or offer a substantially more comprehensive interface.
4) Also, it's sometimes better for a lot of people to refine one ROM than for a few people to refine a lot of ROM's. I know there are a thousand aspiring cooks out there right now since the kitchens have been released. You may be tempted to release your own ROM to the masses either because you think it's a great ROM or because you want to be known around the board. Resist the temptation. Unless your ROM offers a very innovative user experience (e.g. Touch), it is not likely to get a huge following and might just cause more confusion for the non-developers on this board, you might do better to try to collaborate with some fellow developers in creating a very good ROM.
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to). Some people have repeatedly posted in this forum despite the fact that their posts had nothing to do with Windows Mobile 6 specific issues on the Wizard (i.e "My Herald..." or ("Do you have this software from a Nokia?"). We will issue 3 warnings through PM's but after that you might be up for a temporary ban. This will only happen if you're a repeat offender. Heck we've all posted in the wrong place at one point or another. If possible we may move the post to a more appropriate location but it would save everyone a lot of work and aggravation if the posts are made in the correct forum.
I hope this helps a bit. If you have suggestions for how we can make this place better, please air them here. If you have a complaint with a mod, please PM me first. I don't like public conflict and most of you don't either.
jwzg said:
Dear all,
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to)..
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not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
I agree that a strong hand is needed. For this i suggest that there should be a special part in the forum where to move threads that have no replies for hmm...30 days ...?
I don't know too much stuff about forums but i think that would mean a nasty job for you guys so...just a suggestion. Or better...delete them or move them to an sort of recycle bin.
Regarding switching to a new upgraded forum, i think that would be an immense hard work also and it will leave the community off line for few days. It may be needed to come to that soon but that's not a big problem.
But i agree that allowing people to delete their own posts would be nice. But on the other hand, considering hours i spent here reading, i kinda got used to this look
I will PM you with posts to delete but beware that i may be more strict than you and i don't want to waste your time...so i will filter myself.
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
nothin said:
not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
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You are reading this wrong. I had about four or five posters who after two or three moved threads and a couple of PM's continued to post totally irrelevant posts in the Wizard Mobile 6 thread. I this was aimed at repeat offenders and not at the occasional screwup. By they way, you can modify your post or ask a mod to move it if you like. Not a big deal.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all, but I'm not trying to be nice either. I just see the same old builds with different package combo's that anyone could make with the kitchen and a little ingenuity. However, folks like Zoki and the-equinoxe have done some fine things with the touch software that are truly innovative and add substance to the user experience. I for one have partially adapted the T-Mobile wing OEM package to the Wizard (yes camera too, but the image is transposed and my-faves doesn't work). That's true ROM cooking and not just throwing a few packages into a cooker and presto.
It is not "us" against them. It's those who have a bit more experience actually doing our best to take this forum up another level instead of settling for ssdd.
shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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I'm working on this...
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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Fixed by admin. Thanks for the heads up.
ANTC said:
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
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I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
mfrazzz said:
I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
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true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
Gulp - I hope I didn't start something we will all regret with my post "Why all these new WM6 ROMs?" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=313781
Let us not forget that apart from a very few idiots this is a great place to be. I have learnt a lot from this forum considering that I do not have a background in computing.
It has even stimulated my interest to the extent that I have assembled my own computer. Didn't save me money and my wife cannot understand it but I have ended up with exactly what I wanted which a store built machine could not have given me.
I hope you understand the analogy.
Let's just make sure that "We don't throw out the baby with the bath water".
No, you didn't start anything scotch whiskey that hadn't already been brewing a bit. I think my modified OP is a little nicer, but still gets the point across.
ANTC said:
true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
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I agree with both you and mfrazzz.
What if someone doesn't want to use the latest version of a ROM, they don't like some changes or whatever, they will need those older threads for reference material. Also I notice lots of people asking questions, only to be referred to older threads. There isn't any use reinventing the wheel so to speak.
I think a good idea would be for developers (or just real supportive people) to make kind of an FAQ for some of these older versions, a "best of" list of questions and answers. It can be posted in the forum, it can be on some website somewhere, or in the XDA FTP, whatever. Not only would it give people a good place to refer to, but it might also eventually lead to a cut-down of basically the same questions.
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
jonflow said:
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
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Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
I don't like this talk
Everybody should have the right to publish his work, no matter what hi did.
The rest will judge his work and he will learn something. Only those who didn't do anything can't understand this.
Old topics should remain, I like to jump back to learn something, for new members old topics is a must.
If you must do something to show us you're administrator rights, do something good, like option to close the thread.
Zoki, no one said members can't publish their work. I just honestly believe more of it should be along the lines of what you did with the touch stuff. I truly admire your work because it was bleeding edge (still may be) and that's developing which is why this board exists. I'm not trying to flatter you here to gain your support either. It's just when people throw your name all over a splash screen it doesn't really make it their work since most all of the ROM's here are cooked using kitchens from other authors with packages from other members and yes, even HTC. If that sounds big-brother-ish, it's not intended that way. Just make sure credit is given to the quite literally hundreds of people who've made this possible. We're already having problems in other forums right now with people asking for donations in return for tech support for ROM's they've cooked with other's tools. That is one of the many issues we're trying to be proactive about here.
Regarding closing threads, I'm not an administrator, and they have chosen not to give OP's the rights to close their threads. If you want your thread closed, please PM me and I have the rights close it quickly. If you want someone else's thread closed, well, you can request it, but it may or may not happen.
BTW, the old threads were not deleted, and I strongly believe they shouldn't be. Admin simply made a mistake in a setting, and all of the old threads are visible as per our request.
As a mod, I'm just trying to do my best to make sure that we have an orderly forum and we are developing, which is the forum's purpose.
hey jwzg we aren't really calling you a bad person, we know you're looking out for us I agree though, the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens. It would be better for people to just explain what was in a new ROM scheme they came up with, and it would encourage more people to start learning how to make their own ROMs, therefore making them more intellectual in this particular field, which is a good thing. knowledge is power. But hey its just my opinion!
jwzg said:
Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
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just to let you know that the REAL develepor regrets now releasing the rom kitchen tools....
jonflow said:
the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens.
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sorry i am noone for you all, my "senior" member status sounds like joke but...
everything is the same imo now, also, theres no real help lately; only people that can have answers are like "how to flash my phoooone", "did i brickeeeeed?" etc.
there's no real customisation of "custom" builds.
seems like checking some oempacks' ticks is making these current OSes special...
i can't get an answer for my problems, despite i tend to help people someOM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322228
i spent MONTH to make this, and what?
nobody wants to help.
ok, clean this forum up, you may remove my babbling now....
everything i know bout wizard customisation is from that site...but now, in "touch" soft times, there's nothing that makes wizard better, just nothing.
it became playground for kids or what...
sorry for funny english, i cant do better...
i want to say thank you to:
Faria,
Anichillus,
mattk_r
jwzg
double_ofour
zoki
and many many more people that made me ..learning, not copying.
allright, time to watch another touch skin post...
Myself i've been reading most of the time, only lately did i start posting to test some bugs in builds. The issue at hand is a double edged sword. Yes i solved many problems wading through old posts. But i also solved a lot of issues just reading an entire thread. I will never be able to create a kitchen but it sure is nice knowing that when i want to i can build a rom entirely to my liking. But indeed to many Build threads these day are the same. And most of the issues handled, but then spread across multiple build threads, are mostly about the same problems. Mainly issues with specific base roms and aplication incompatibilities. I think a lot of the solving of these issues is slowed down because of the spread through topics. Maybe setting up a rule that Roms that get posted and aren't updated or have any fixes posted should not be taken seriously and can be deleted. This way less Rom versions circulate the thread and only higher quality builds by Chefs are available. Also a good rule might be to have the cooks post more info about the sources and tools used for their builds, like Kitchen used, Base used, Patches used oem packages used. So new users more easily understand that no Rom has no history. It also takes away the polish of parading with your ego. Maybe even changing the main wizard topics into
1. Kitchen Development
2. How To & Troubleshooting
3. Rom Builds testing
4. Custom Made Software & tweaks
5. Hardware and Accesoires
6. To be Deleted (either move topics or delete them when re/placed into new main topics)
Then indeed phase out unneeded old posts if the information is passed into new threads that accordingly aknowledge the sources.
What i'm trying to say is, to change the perception a bit more that this is not a Technical support site and more of a doing site.
I think the main topics can set an expectation and the current ones don't give the impression that flashing is not kids biznz.
Also it looks like there are to many uploads of the same home screens, software etc. (i think even i am quilty of that).
I'm all for a big clean up but with the focus on retaining the history and origin as much as possible even if it means loosing a few classic threads.
You as admin can set the tone and expectation and a clear message should be sent to junior cooks that collaboration is what drives this site.
Hello!
In the past days the wiki section of ROM upgrading was updated.
The method in wich you used MaUpgradeUt_noID.exe is now considered old school and not safe.
Now, for ROM upgrading, you have to use ROMUpgradeUt.exe wich you can find here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36715&d=1176001960
The wiki explains very clearly what to do with the above archive and how to install/upgrade your Universal (Qtek 9000/SPV M5000/Dopod 900/O2 Exec/etc).
But there is something that might rise problems to new people like me.
In the Wiki (both at Radio upgrade and OS ROM upgrade) it is used a picture that shows the old MaUpgradeUt_noID.exe file.
Some users (like me) might not understand wich file to use:
the MaUpgradeUt_noID.exe or the ROMUpgradeUt.exe.
Also, i think in both sections (Radio Upgrade & OS ROM upgrade) should be more informations about what the status of Flight Mode should be before beggineing the upgrade.
And also if there is necesary to take out the SIM and the SD/MMC card.
Also, i think that many people have problems to understand if the custom upgrades are suitable for their devices.
for example, the Wiki section for SIM Unlock says that the method is suitable only for HTC Universal. I think that it is not very clear if the method works for
SPV M5000/O2 Exec/Dopod 900/etc too. (personally, i know that it is suitable). When i first read this section, i thought that the method only works for Qtek 9000.
There are some things that are not mentioned in the Wiki.
Like the fact that you should first unlock your device and only after that you should mess around with the ROM.
An other fact is that the first page of the Wiki contains a link "Upgrade Bootloader to 1.2". But if you fallow the link, you find out that you will upgrade the bootloader to 1.01 and not to 1.2.
When i first saw this, i thought that someone messed around with the Wiki and made a joke.
My final sugestion is that only Mods and Trusted Senior Members Should be allowed to edit/modify the Wiki.
For example, right now, as far as i understand, there are 2 identical sections of the Wiki refering to Radio Only Upgrade:
1.http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=UNI_Radio
2.http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Radio only upgrade instructions
This is not bad. But what if someone (someone bad who bricked his device) comes and modifies the guidelines so that other users brick their devices too.
That's why i suggest that only Trusted users should be allowed to edit/modify the wiki.
I don't want to offend anybody with this thread. This is my opinion and i am open to sugestions. Please accept my apologies for my bad english. I am not an native speaker.
True enough... The Wiki needs a major update, since many new "technologies" have surfaced(for example Jwmcpwright's(did I spell that right...?) ROM does not show the MaUpgradeUt_noID.exe or other files, it is one clean install package, an executable that will guide you through the upgrade), and some methods are being phased out, or have already been abandoned.
Also, other sections of the wiki could use an overhaul, maybe a guide on ROM cooking and/or building.
If only selected people could update the Wiki, it wouldnt be a Wiki any more! Would kind of defeat the point IMHO
But not everyone here has the knowledge, technical specs, details, etc to wirte concise, detailed, accurate articles. Would you like to see wildly inaccurate entries concerning integral parts of your Uni? If someone without the programming knowledge, hardware skills, etc were to follow a procedure outlined in some bogus article, and bricked his PDA, who would be responsible?
Him, because he believed an article from a well-known trusted source(XDA-Dev) without any foreknowledge?
XDA-Dev, for allowing anyone to edit the Wiki, and post bogus?
Or the poster, for posting the bogus article for whatever reason, since anyone could freely edit the Wiki?
This is a question to be considered! I say only those should be allowed to post into the Wiki who have qualified themselves in the forum as having the knowledge to write accurate and detailed articles(Mods don't get appointed for nothing, in my opinion. AND they cooked virtually all the ROMs available here, so I think they qualify for updating...), since we're talking about pretty expensive(~$1,130/555 GBP/whatever currency) and important devices here.
mzalan said:
But not everyone here has the knowledge, technical specs, details, etc to wirte concise, detailed, accurate articles. Would you like to see wildly inaccurate entries concerning integral parts of your Uni? If someone without the programming knowledge, hardware skills, etc were to follow a procedure outlined in some bogus article, and bricked his PDA, who would be responsible?
Him, because he believed an article from a well-known trusted source(XDA-Dev) without any foreknowledge?
XDA-Dev, for allowing anyone to edit the Wiki, and post bogus?
Or the poster, for posting the bogus article for whatever reason, since anyone could freely edit the Wiki?
This is a question to be considered! I say only those should be allowed to post into the Wiki who have qualified themselves in the forum as having the knowledge to write accurate and detailed articles(Mods don't get appointed for nothing, in my opinion. AND they cooked virtually all the ROMs available here, so I think they qualify for updating...), since we're talking about pretty expensive(~$1,130/555 GBP/whatever currency) and important devices here.
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If people dont know what they are doing, they shouldnt mess about with such an expensive bit of hardware. I bet you trust all the articles in Wikipedia to be accurate? That is a Wiki - the whole point of a Wiki is that it contains the vast amount of knowledge from an almost infinite amount of people. The Wiki has a warning about the dangers of flashing a device with BETA roms. If an individual chooses to flash their expensive device, when they are absolutely not sure what they are doing, it is THEIR FAULT, no-one elses, and they are STUPID for doing it in the first place
I do trust articles in Wikipedia because I know that they are supervised by teams of moderators(although their presence is not so noticeable as it is here), who monitor articles, correct mistakes, and remove bogus articles. I've had articles deleted because they contained information deemed false(I've corrected the errors in my knowledge since then ), so I know what they do, and I am grateful that they do it.
All right, let everyone edit the Wiki! But then you have to have a set of moderator-supervisors to ensure there are no inaccuracies. Let's count how many active members are there with the know-how to supervise a Software-Wiki: Lt.Cmdr.Ivan; Laurentius26; Beast0898; they are the ones who can be counted on as a "patrol", Jwrightmcps can probably be called upon(but he doesn't post too often...). They have cooked ROMs that are used by many many people out there, so they probably know what they are doing.
There are people out there, who took apart their devices, until they were picking at the individual chips from the mainboard, then put it back together to have it working without a hitch. THEY know what they are doing.
Now, suppose I put up an article that says "Hey, did you know, if you do this during an update, than this when it starts up, and finally you write this into these files, your Uni will triple its speed, and will never hang, PLUS, you get to connect to secured Wifi networks(an inability shared by most ROMs available...)!". Some new user John Doe comes along, no programming skills, first ROM-upgrade, and says "Hey, this guy knows what he's doing, let's follow his advice!" BANG! 1 bricked Universal, coming right up.
Now who's to blame? Me, the site, or the new guy?
When I upgraded my Uni for the first time a month ago, I didn't know what I was doing, I was placing my $1000+ device into the hands of Jwrightmcps, cause he seemed like the sort of guy you could count on not to screw up the upgrade-guide.
But when I first came to this forum, I flamed a guy for calling the screen connector cable "Coaxial", because I knew coaxial cables as the cable you get TV on. Would you trust an article written by me, in this light? I wouldn't. And would have you trusted my articles before knowing this bit of info? I would have...
Now do you see the risks of unmoderated editing? Hope this cleared my point up a bit.
And no need to overuse capitals, it makes you seem you're flaming...
mzalan said:
Now who's to blame? Me, the site, or the new guy?
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Definitely the new guy.
The site says xda-developers, not xda-newusers.
Mods does not have all the time in the world to moderate everything.
A Wiki is a wiki... it's a means to share knowledge. A wiki is always partially innaccurate. It's up to you to do more research before believing something to be true. But if you're just too gullible, then this site isn't for you.
DaVince said:
Mods does not have all the time in the world to moderate everything.
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My point exactly. If they are the only ones who may post, then there is no need for that, since only articles from trustworthy sources will be posted.
uhm, I might be asking a stupid question, but I have not found any Information about updateing Radio ROM or the OS and extended ROM when using Windows Vista. Is there any chance though?
yj said:
uhm, I might be asking a stupid question, but I have not found any Information about updateing Radio ROM or the OS and extended ROM when using Windows Vista. Is there any chance though?
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Not really relevant to this thread...plent of information can be found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php
You might also want to look here first, as you are a new user: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=357
Finally, welcome
well I just found out and wanted to inform you, sorry.
so the information that might be added to the wiki is about the windows mobile synch usb driver for Vista so RUU works again. thanks
Seeing as the admins here are stubbornly refusing to create a dedicated sub forum for the x7510, I've set up a free forum which may be found here: http://htcathena.freeforums.org
Please note: I don't WANT to be running a seperate board and I'd prefer to have a sub forum here. However, for as long as the admins ignore our requests I'll keep that forum running.
Should a dedicated x7510 sub forum be created here I will close that forum down. Closing down may be deleting it, or if there were many useful posts simply preventing new posts, so that it dies a slower death over time.
This is NOT an attempt at blackmail, but rather me trying to avoid more devices being bricked.
PS: Please excuse the ads on that site - I've gone with the completely free option, so I'm saddled with the ads!
What's the big deal?
NanoRuler said:
Seeing as the admins here are stubbornly refusing to create a dedicated sub forum for the x7510, I've set up a free forum which may be found here: http://htcathena.freeforums.org
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What reason could the xda admins possibly have for not creating a sub-forum for the 7510? Or even an entirely new forum? Look at the Elf and the Vogue.
Anyone know the admins' reasoning on this?
Isn't in my mod powers to create a sub section... I am asking to the admins, again. I hope we will have some answers soon
sergiopi said:
Isn't in my mod powers to create a sub section... I am asking to the admins, again. I hope we will have some answers soon
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Thank you, although I have to say at this stage I'm quite annoyed with the admins, especially seeing as they cannot even be bothered to respond to any request!
elf and vogue are totally different devices which happen to look the same
one is cdma and one is gsm and they work in totally different ways. the vogue has 400mhz prcessor and the elf 201mhz
also to be perfectly honest, how can people not tell the difference between x7510 and x7500/x7501
you bought a device that cost £700 (according to expansys) so surely you know its model name. and because of the cost, if you see x7500/x7501 unlocker you will be wary of using it, even if you think its a typing error
and on the subject of the elf, the elf has 2 variants elf (64 ram and 128 rom) and elfin (128 ram and 256 rom)
both are different and only the elf has hard spl
flashing one rom for one onto the other will brick it
so the same probs as here
but they deal with it and have stickies saying how to distinguish between them and where to go for hat, and seperate guides for flashing roms onto the elf and elfin etc etc
so maybe thats whats neded here
i think the admins are probably fed up of people requesting fora only to have them empty:gene, pharos, juno, sedna are all pretty empty forums that were massively requested and yet not much comes out of them
and now i just counted the votes in the "we want an x7510 section" thread nd there are 33 in 3 months
yes 33
not exactly a huge number is it
But you may all think im just raining on your parade, but im not, I completely understand why you want a new section, but im just trying to highlight why the admins probably dont want it, there are so many new devices which have massive appeal, compared to a £700 device which is essentially an 18 month old device in new casing.
And so in conclusion, I think a sticky explaining he differences between x7510 and stuff is whats needed. Plus, cmones seemed keen to make (or try and make) you guys a hard spl, so why doesnt someone whose a senior (or old) member contact HER and see what she can come up with. she will probably need rom dumps and stuff, but I'm sure she can do it. after all she and others got custom roms on the shift.
night guys, and I hope it works out for you all, and nobody else bricks their devices...
rorydaredkign said:
And so in conclusion, I think a sticky explaining he differences between x7510 and stuff is whats needed. Plus, cmones seemed keen to make (or try and make) you guys a hard spl, so why doesnt someone whose a senior (or old) member contact HER and see what she can come up with. she will probably need rom dumps and stuff, but I'm sure she can do it. after all she and others got custom roms on the shift.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now THAT was helpful! Why didn't anybody else think about it!
But seriously, CMONEX confirmed she is working on a hard SPL/unlocker and happens to agree with the need for a seperate sub-forum, for a number of valid reasons.
The thing is that a sub-forum will not affect anybody else on XDA-Devs - it won't require more resources, nor more bandwidth. It takes a minute to set up and it may well save several devices.
So please tell me in great detail why there SHOULDN'T be a seperate sub-forum? Why SHOULDN'T things be better organised than the current "pile-everything-into-one-pot" mess? And how exactly will YOU be any worse off should a sub-forum be created?
You will be worse off, won't you? Why else would you be against it?
NanoRuler said:
Why SHOULDN'T things be better organised than the current "pile-everything-into-one-pot" mess?
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I agree with you on that, NanoRuler. E.g. without the latest Athena ROM link by sergiopi (thanks for it), I wasn't even able to compare all existing ROMs for the x7500 at a glance, there are too many threads spread over the entire forum.
Regarding the x7510, a new sub forum would possibly give a better overview. It hasn't been of major importance until now, but it will become necessary very fast, once the x7510 can be unlocked...we should get prepared for that moment. ;-)
rorydaredkign said:
also to be perfectly honest, how can people not tell the difference between x7510 and x7500/x7501
you bought a device that cost £700 (according to expansys) so surely you know its model name. and because of the cost, if you see x7500/x7501 unlocker you will be wary of using it, even if you think its a typing error
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Yes, except there was no indication NOT to run various tools against the x7510.
rorydaredkign said:
but they deal with it and have stickies saying how to distinguish between them and where to go for hat, and seperate guides for flashing roms onto the elf and elfin etc etc
so maybe thats whats neded here
i
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My, what an excellent example of good organisation....NOT. Maybe what's required is a rethink in how the forums are structured, eh? And maybe having distinct sub forums for the different models of Athena will help a great deal.
rorydaredkign said:
and now i just counted the votes in the "we want an x7510 section" thread nd there are 33 in 3 months
yes 33
not exactly a huge number is it
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I suggest you go and count again, bearing in mind there are actually requests in different places (perhaps another fringe benefit of piss-poor organisation?)
rorydaredkign said:
I completely understand why you want a new section
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Sure, buddy. You have me COMPLETELY convinced that you have our best interests at heart.
rorydaredkign said:
And so in conclusion, I think a sticky explaining he differences between x7510 and stuff is whats needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that will sort out the mess how exactly?
rorydaredkign said:
night guys, and I hope it works out for you all, and nobody else bricks their devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me re-phrase your sentiment: I don't want you guys to benefit from a seperate section (even though I'm not directly affected!) and I certainly don't want things to become more organised and anyway there's so few of you that your opinion doesn't matter, but hey, here's to no more bricked devices!
I'll be polite here and let you choose the 1st word, but the second word of my reply is certainly "OFF!"
will_990 said:
I agree with you on that, NanoRuler. E.g. without the latest Athena ROM link by sergiopi (thanks for it), I wasn't even able to compare all existing ROMs for the x7500 at a glance, there are too many threads spread over the entire forum.
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you think thee are lots of roms here, go look at damond rom development and then tell us there are loads of roms here...
I really dont mind or care if theres a seperate section, but I can see why you want one, and also why the admins havent made it
I think a seperate section would actually help dev for us, as we could use your roms and port between the two and stuff.. it would lead to a better dev community here
nano, don't take your anger out on rory. He's not a mod and undeserving of your "**** off".
How about you have a few drinks and relax?
techntrek said:
nano, don't take your anger out on rory. He's not a mod and undeserving of your "**** off".
How about you have a few drinks and relax?
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Click to collapse
Yes, he's not a mod, but he also did not need to try and build a case against the wishes of quite a few members here using poorly thought out strategies.
He was dismissive without having any reason to be and essentially stated that our opinion doesn't matter (although he didn't quite put it in those words).
Finally, I specifically did NOT tell him to **** off, but gave him some choice in the phrase.
Either somebody's part of the solution...
fair play
hope it works out for you guys
Forum created. This thread closed.
Further discussion here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=438035
Mike
Admins, thank you for EVENTUALLY listening to us.
However, can we take this a tad further? Somebody's obviously spent quite some time moving threads across and the result is....
a mess, same as every other XDA-Devs forum.
Is there any scope at all for even more sub forums under the existing x7510 one? Obvious ones that jump to mind is a sub forum just for bricked devices, another just for ROMs and perhaps one for performance related matters.
Having different sub forums makes everybody's lives easier and it means you guys have the opportunity to deliver highly targeted advertising (which should bring in more money for you). Everybody wins!
Alternatively we can just go with the present formula, which basically consists of 20 or so stickies at the top, followed by a mish-mash that makes it very difficult to find things even when using the search function.
I would LOVE to see how you lot structure folders on your own systems! If it is anything like XDA-Devs then I gues you often experience that "now-where-did-I-save-it" feeling!
I say patience...and thanks for the child-forum! Maybe we could make a sticky on how to use some prefix or header labels at the beginning of the thread title, e.g. Bricked: after Kaiser rom update my x7510 went black - HELP! or ROM-DL: official HTC X7510 at last! for ROM download links...
@ NanoRuler
I have read your comments here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=437317 and elsewhere and now in this thread.
I feel I have to say there are a few things you have said that I find more than a little offensive - just a some of your comments in relation to Admin / Mods / Organisation:
"piss-poor organisation"
"admins here are stubbornly refusing to create a dedicated sub forum"
"admins, especially seeing as they cannot even be bothered to respond to any request"
"My, what an excellent example of good organisation....NOT"
Mixing the above style of comment into your posts, along with your tone in your first post in this thread, is not likely to endear you to Mods, Admins and long standing members here. You see there may be quite a lot of truth in what you say, but it is spoiled by those barbed and untrue comments.
We do monitor how things are going and how things can change, but you have to realise that only a couple of years ago the membership was only a couple of hundred, now it's grown to 195000 active menbers (We MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT!) and a membership well over 1 Million. Add to this that the whole show is kept on the road by a handful of voluntary Mods and 1 Admin who does not have 100% of her time dedicated to the site.
The idea that she has "piss-poor organisation" and has "stubbornly refused to set up a forum", aside from being untrue, is also insulting. As you might imagine with only one Admin, you have to wait to see what overall demand is before leaping in to create new Forum. It does create added Moderation work when new Fora are added and there is nothing more disappointing for members to find a forum that never gets answers because nobody goes there. The demand is guaged over a period of time and when the level seems sufficiently high the Forum is created.
With the level of paid staff = slightly less than 1, you cannot achieve military style organisation and everything working like a Swiss watch. (... and do you know I don't think I'd like it if it did.)
Yes we have a few rough edges (that's what makes us so lovable) and believe me I agree we can improve things over time, only don't expect perfection from such a small team. We rely on members to contribute and make helpful suggestions and to do it politely 'cos we do the best we can with the resources we have - and that includes limited time.
Mike
EDIT: It was me who moved a lot of posts from the Athena Forum to here. You know, while I was doing it I was thinking, this will be awkward without sub-fora for ROM-Development etc. (You see I was thinking along the same lines as YOU). It somewhat cheesed me off though,when I came here, to be told it was a "mess". I disagree, "Mess" is too strong a word, but I do agree we may need a Development Forum at some point.
OK, let's take this from the top, shall we?
"piss-poor organisation"
Please go to this forum, http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=374, then tell me how to find a recent ROM in amongst everything else. I accept your arguments about the growth of XDA-Dev's (hey, despite my objections I remain a fan!) and the lack of admins and moderators. But let's be fair here, have you guys actually ASKED any more members to help out?
I KNOW what's involved being a Mod in a busy forum, I was one at MCMCSE.com, but you can still spread the load a tad more, and delegate tasks more (such as delegate the ability to create sub forums to Mods).
If anything, this struggle to contain the load supports MY argument that XDA-Dev's is NOT very well organised at all. Yes, hindsight is always 20/20 so it is easy for me to now say having seperate sub forums just for ROMs will make things better organised for everybody, and yes, I probably wouldn't have set it up that way had I been asked when XDA-Dev;s was started. But just because there was an oversight in the beginning does it now mean it must be perpetuated?
"admins here are stubbornly refusing to create a dedicated sub forum" and
"admins, especially seeing as they cannot even be bothered to respond to any request"
Hmmm....let me see..... Many requests over a period of more than three months and nobody even bothered to reply to us? Yes, that IS stubbornly refusing. As was stated here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=420259 "Mod Edit: Darn I was enjoying watching them suffer!!" was probably intended as a joke, but may well have been a freudian slip!
If you guys weren't being stubborn about it, why didn't you just come back to us and state your reasons for delaying. Why blank us for more than three months?
I think you'll find you guys pretty much scored an own-goal there.
"My, what an excellent example of good organisation....NOT"
Again, you've almost admitted that XDA-Dev's is NOT the best organised forum in the world. That comment was made in response to rorydaredkign's suggestion that using a few stickies would solve all our woes. It was NEVER aimed at this site, its admin or mods, but was only ever aimed at Rory's silly suggestion!
Nobody expects perfection, least of all me. Just don't blank us and don't ignore us. I find THAT insulting, because when you ignore somebody you're also saying through your behaviour that they aren't worthy of your attention. ('ll certainly bear this comment of mine in mind should you choose not to reply )
Nobody expects military organisation, either. Over-organising can be far worse than not organising at all.
Again, at the time that I stated so, admins/mods WERE refusing to create a seperate x7510 sub forum, so I have to disagree with your claim that what I had said was untrue. I'm a lot of things, but I'm NOT a liar, nor have I ever been. (Sadly "endearing" isn't a term typically used to describe me, either!)
Now, having said all of that, I'll also say that I WAS pissed off, especially by the lack of response/action, so I accept that I may have been too quick to accuse.
I wish to apologise for that to the admin, the mods and most members here.
Finally Mike, I NEVER intended the word MESS to describe the seperate x7510 section. Moving everything here in record time must have been an enormous pain and such a move can never immediately result in any degree of order.
Right, I can't change my signature message in that post, so this post is made purely to show the updated signature.
-Edit:- And yet, the signature has changed!
Hi
Okay, I accept there are some vailid points you make. I can assure you there is and has been no deliberate action to stop (or slow down) a forum being created. I think you do have a point about not hearing anything on whether a forum would be created for 3 months. I don't know if I'm proud to say it but that was probably due to a bit of "muddling through", rather than any deliberate action to ignore the forum request. (Almost a case of wait for the clamour for a forum to get very loud and then create it / if not then the request withers on the vine. NOT the most respectful way to deal with the membership I agree but with no guaranteed or co-ordinated hours being put in by Mods and admin (responsibilities for other things)then a more planned approach tends to remain as a good idea but does not get delivered in practice.
Whether Mods should have powers to create forums is an interesting one. Also not one for me to answer. The Admin reports to a Management group and I guess it would be their and her decision. I can see such a suggestion meeting some resistance if only because Mods come and go fairly frequently and to have power over the structure of the boards might be thought a step too far.
... and now I must go to work... late already
Mike
EDIT: I think it's likely you have a lot to offer this Forum, you are obviously interested and have ideas about it. All I would say is, start with the assumption that the Mods and Admin are not against you but with you. We may be slow to change things, for all the reasons I give, but there is no deliberate action to ignore members and you can always send a PM to Mods or Admin if you think something is being missed by us.
Now is time to BUILD the x7510 section!.
Thanks mike for moving the X7510 3Ds here, I am ready to listen suggestions and to better organize the section.
May be Mickyprima or Irus or some other chef would like to be the FIRST in releasing a new ROM?
A sticky "Rom development" thread is needed?
I agree, "it is a start", next step is up to you ( I have an X7500)
sergiopi said:
Now is time to BUILD the x7510 section!.
Thanks mike for moving the X7510 3Ds here, I am ready to listen suggestions and to better organize the section.
May be Mickyprima or Irus or some other chef would like to be the FIRST in releasing a new ROM?
A sticky "Rom development" thread is needed?
I agree, "it is a start", next step is up to you ( I have an X7500)
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I moved the more obvious 7510 threads, but not being overly knowledgable about the device, it's entirely possible there are several other threads that need moved.
Also there were a couple that I stickied, because they appeared of on-going importance, but I could be wrong about them. So yes, as sergiopi says, feedback is needed.
Mike
EDIT: side note - many of the moved threads I gave a two day expiring redirect - so they will still appear in the Athena section for a couple of days - just in case that confuses anybody!!
NanoRuler said:
Obvious ones that jump to mind is a sub forum just for bricked devices, another just for ROMs and perhaps one for performance related matters.
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Click to collapse
there is no such subforums for x7500 either...except for the one for ROMs of course, and I think that could be a good idea, or maybe rename this section as x7510 and x7510 ROMs.
slow...but sure...
NanoRuler...you need to remember that the 7510 is still a very *new* device and not many members/peeps have it. I have searched the net high and wide for info on the 7510 and to be honest the only place where I get any real info is at these boards...so it may be lacking in many things right now but it is the BEST you can find online...and I know over time things will improve as more people buy this device. I have mine for a few weeks now but I still prefer my universal only cause the 'cooks' have not started working their magic as yet and out of the box I think the 7510 is kinda lame/lacking...
I am reminded by something my dear grand-mom would tell me back in the day...'It's not what you say, but how you say it'.
Count me in if more hands are needed to get things moving faster...and thanks to all the peeps in this forum for making this place a blast to visit.
youmeus said:
NanoRuler...
I am reminded by something my dear grand-mom would tell me back in the day...'It's not what you say, but how you say it'.
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AGREED -- whatever the usefulness of NanoRuler's comments, the negative attitude that is so evident (even in follow-up msg. -- I didn't perceive any real change or even a genuine apology) turned me off and I found myself skimming over much of what he said.
brucewilsonpa said:
AGREED -- whatever the usefulness of NanoRuler's comments, the negative attitude that is so evident (even in follow-up msg. -- I didn't perceive any real change or even a genuine apology) turned me off and I found myself skimming over much of what he said.
Click to expand...
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And you did WHAT exactly to campaign for a seperate section? Yeah, I thought so, buddy!
Currently I think you will find YOUR attitude is not exactly positive, particularly so seeing as you are raking up ground that has already been covered.
And you perceived no real change, nor a genuine apology?
I made my my apologies, after having defended myself first. In fact, I do believe I could clearly show that I was wrongly accused in some parts. Yet despite this I felt the need to apologise - I was not forced, sweet-talked or otherwise coerced into an apology. If that's nor real or genuine enough for you, well, though luck matey!
How bloody dare you judge me or anybody else? Who exactly do you think you are?
In your case you've just "skimmed" to the end, in your case too, I will be polite and allow you to pick the 1st word, but the second word most certainly is "off".
It is time to start talking about x7510 again here instead of members mood, attitude, friendliness...
Wow! I merely shared my perception and end up being attacked and castigated. No offense intended but surely I'm allowed to share with you how you appear to come across -- why are you so quick to assume I (or others) are "judging" you? I think the tone of your msg. vindicates my "perception" -- you can villify me and attack me but this is the last word I offer. Let's get back to discussing the important stuff.
Hmmmm....here's what you said:
"even in follow-up msg. -- I didn't perceive any real change or even a genuine apology) turned me off and I found myself skimming over much of what he said"
THAT is judgemental. In case you don't believe me, look up the meaning of the word.
Don't back off with statements like "I merely shared my perception and end up being attacked and castigated", "No offense intended but surely I'm allowed to share with you how you appear to come across" and "I think the tone of your msg. vindicates my 'perception'".
If you merely wanted to share your opinion regarding how I came across, why didn't you think to do so in a PM, as opposed to a public critique? Why raise it at all well after the fact, when everybody's moved on? And finally, the tone of my message was exactly correct in response to somebody criticising me out of the blue.
At least have the courage of conviction to stand by your earlier statement, instead of trying to wash it away with dribble.
More importantly, have you signed up to put YOUR x7510 potentially at risk to test Cmonex's new unlocker? See, I don't simply spew hot air - I also walk the walk, which is why I've signed up.
Now unless you have something useful to contibute, do us a favour and don't post for a while?
so...
Im a member of this forum fo quit a bit. And Im really disappointed with the X1.
This forum is called xda-developers. but are you developing anything?? :S
Or you are just porting form other mobiles.? :S
Well the only request that I got is this, if you can . . .
Can you ppl (developers or whatever you want be called) port or make a TrackID™???? and not MusicID or stuff like that.
I want the real TrackID™. I think all needs a simple TrackID™.cab file on their mobiles... if it is on a mobile I know you can get it out soooo
Thanks!!!
Yeah thats great. First of all, you say you have been here a while, but you obviously don't read any of the forums, cause then you go ahead and ignore the rules about SEARCHING, and then insult the developers, You ignore the sections of this forum dedicated to DEVELOPING apps and you insult the hackers who provide quality apps for our phones. (and who incidently have the most chance of getting you this app as not many developers would sit down and make it from scratch for free.) Then you make a demand and expect people to just jump up and satisfy your whims.
This subject has already been covered and because your so arrogant I hope no one helps. "Develop" it yourself.
...
Thanks for the reply m8
I know this thread has been out for a while since 07 I think and nothing was done.
I searched a lot this forum for everything related on it...but with no result