Database Info

Cleaning up the Wizard Forum

Dear all,
Due to the proliferation of new ROM's, the Wizard forum is in need of a bit of housekeeping. The mods cannot do this alone, so we are asking for your help.
1) The four most used kitchens have been stickied for the moment and questions regarding any ROM's you cook based on these kitchens should be posted in the appropriate thread. Please do not start a separate thread. Anichillus Core Professional kitchen is also found in the Development and Hacking forum since it is used for multiple devices and is beyond the scope of many basic users. Users beware. I may de-sticky the kitchens upon further discussions with the mods, but right now the structure will stand as it is.
2) On the same note, I'm asking for kitchen authors to notify me or other mods concerning useless posts in these threads (e.g. Why didn't you include "x" application? or posts that are inflammatory or non-technical in nature). They will promptly be deleted as we shouldn't have to wade through 20 posts of BS to get to relevant tech info.
3) All of the kitchens stickied are based wholly or in part on Bepe's tools and are of the same basic architecture. Therefore no more kitchens will be stickied unless they are truly unique or offer a substantially more comprehensive interface.
4) Also, it's sometimes better for a lot of people to refine one ROM than for a few people to refine a lot of ROM's. I know there are a thousand aspiring cooks out there right now since the kitchens have been released. You may be tempted to release your own ROM to the masses either because you think it's a great ROM or because you want to be known around the board. Resist the temptation. Unless your ROM offers a very innovative user experience (e.g. Touch), it is not likely to get a huge following and might just cause more confusion for the non-developers on this board, you might do better to try to collaborate with some fellow developers in creating a very good ROM.
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to). Some people have repeatedly posted in this forum despite the fact that their posts had nothing to do with Windows Mobile 6 specific issues on the Wizard (i.e "My Herald..." or ("Do you have this software from a Nokia?"). We will issue 3 warnings through PM's but after that you might be up for a temporary ban. This will only happen if you're a repeat offender. Heck we've all posted in the wrong place at one point or another. If possible we may move the post to a more appropriate location but it would save everyone a lot of work and aggravation if the posts are made in the correct forum.
I hope this helps a bit. If you have suggestions for how we can make this place better, please air them here. If you have a complaint with a mod, please PM me first. I don't like public conflict and most of you don't either.

jwzg said:
Dear all,
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to)..
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not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).

I agree that a strong hand is needed. For this i suggest that there should be a special part in the forum where to move threads that have no replies for hmm...30 days ...?
I don't know too much stuff about forums but i think that would mean a nasty job for you guys so...just a suggestion. Or better...delete them or move them to an sort of recycle bin.
Regarding switching to a new upgraded forum, i think that would be an immense hard work also and it will leave the community off line for few days. It may be needed to come to that soon but that's not a big problem.
But i agree that allowing people to delete their own posts would be nice. But on the other hand, considering hours i spent here reading, i kinda got used to this look
I will PM you with posts to delete but beware that i may be more strict than you and i don't want to waste your time...so i will filter myself.

And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...

nothin said:
not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
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You are reading this wrong. I had about four or five posters who after two or three moved threads and a couple of PM's continued to post totally irrelevant posts in the Wizard Mobile 6 thread. I this was aimed at repeat offenders and not at the occasional screwup. By they way, you can modify your post or ask a mod to move it if you like. Not a big deal.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all, but I'm not trying to be nice either. I just see the same old builds with different package combo's that anyone could make with the kitchen and a little ingenuity. However, folks like Zoki and the-equinoxe have done some fine things with the touch software that are truly innovative and add substance to the user experience. I for one have partially adapted the T-Mobile wing OEM package to the Wizard (yes camera too, but the image is transposed and my-faves doesn't work). That's true ROM cooking and not just throwing a few packages into a cooker and presto.
It is not "us" against them. It's those who have a bit more experience actually doing our best to take this forum up another level instead of settling for ssdd.

shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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I'm working on this...

all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them

shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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Fixed by admin. Thanks for the heads up.

ANTC said:
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
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I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.

mfrazzz said:
I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
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true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at

Gulp - I hope I didn't start something we will all regret with my post "Why all these new WM6 ROMs?" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=313781
Let us not forget that apart from a very few idiots this is a great place to be. I have learnt a lot from this forum considering that I do not have a background in computing.
It has even stimulated my interest to the extent that I have assembled my own computer. Didn't save me money and my wife cannot understand it but I have ended up with exactly what I wanted which a store built machine could not have given me.
I hope you understand the analogy.
Let's just make sure that "We don't throw out the baby with the bath water".

No, you didn't start anything scotch whiskey that hadn't already been brewing a bit. I think my modified OP is a little nicer, but still gets the point across.

ANTC said:
true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
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I agree with both you and mfrazzz.
What if someone doesn't want to use the latest version of a ROM, they don't like some changes or whatever, they will need those older threads for reference material. Also I notice lots of people asking questions, only to be referred to older threads. There isn't any use reinventing the wheel so to speak.
I think a good idea would be for developers (or just real supportive people) to make kind of an FAQ for some of these older versions, a "best of" list of questions and answers. It can be posted in the forum, it can be on some website somewhere, or in the XDA FTP, whatever. Not only would it give people a good place to refer to, but it might also eventually lead to a cut-down of basically the same questions.
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3

jonflow said:
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
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Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.

I don't like this talk
Everybody should have the right to publish his work, no matter what hi did.
The rest will judge his work and he will learn something. Only those who didn't do anything can't understand this.
Old topics should remain, I like to jump back to learn something, for new members old topics is a must.
If you must do something to show us you're administrator rights, do something good, like option to close the thread.

Zoki, no one said members can't publish their work. I just honestly believe more of it should be along the lines of what you did with the touch stuff. I truly admire your work because it was bleeding edge (still may be) and that's developing which is why this board exists. I'm not trying to flatter you here to gain your support either. It's just when people throw your name all over a splash screen it doesn't really make it their work since most all of the ROM's here are cooked using kitchens from other authors with packages from other members and yes, even HTC. If that sounds big-brother-ish, it's not intended that way. Just make sure credit is given to the quite literally hundreds of people who've made this possible. We're already having problems in other forums right now with people asking for donations in return for tech support for ROM's they've cooked with other's tools. That is one of the many issues we're trying to be proactive about here.
Regarding closing threads, I'm not an administrator, and they have chosen not to give OP's the rights to close their threads. If you want your thread closed, please PM me and I have the rights close it quickly. If you want someone else's thread closed, well, you can request it, but it may or may not happen.
BTW, the old threads were not deleted, and I strongly believe they shouldn't be. Admin simply made a mistake in a setting, and all of the old threads are visible as per our request.
As a mod, I'm just trying to do my best to make sure that we have an orderly forum and we are developing, which is the forum's purpose.

hey jwzg we aren't really calling you a bad person, we know you're looking out for us I agree though, the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens. It would be better for people to just explain what was in a new ROM scheme they came up with, and it would encourage more people to start learning how to make their own ROMs, therefore making them more intellectual in this particular field, which is a good thing. knowledge is power. But hey its just my opinion!

jwzg said:
Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
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just to let you know that the REAL develepor regrets now releasing the rom kitchen tools....

jonflow said:
the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens.
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sorry i am noone for you all, my "senior" member status sounds like joke but...
everything is the same imo now, also, theres no real help lately; only people that can have answers are like "how to flash my phoooone", "did i brickeeeeed?" etc.
there's no real customisation of "custom" builds.
seems like checking some oempacks' ticks is making these current OSes special...
i can't get an answer for my problems, despite i tend to help people someOM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322228
i spent MONTH to make this, and what?
nobody wants to help.
ok, clean this forum up, you may remove my babbling now....
everything i know bout wizard customisation is from that site...but now, in "touch" soft times, there's nothing that makes wizard better, just nothing.
it became playground for kids or what...
sorry for funny english, i cant do better...
i want to say thank you to:
Faria,
Anichillus,
mattk_r
jwzg
double_ofour
zoki
and many many more people that made me ..learning, not copying.
allright, time to watch another touch skin post...

Myself i've been reading most of the time, only lately did i start posting to test some bugs in builds. The issue at hand is a double edged sword. Yes i solved many problems wading through old posts. But i also solved a lot of issues just reading an entire thread. I will never be able to create a kitchen but it sure is nice knowing that when i want to i can build a rom entirely to my liking. But indeed to many Build threads these day are the same. And most of the issues handled, but then spread across multiple build threads, are mostly about the same problems. Mainly issues with specific base roms and aplication incompatibilities. I think a lot of the solving of these issues is slowed down because of the spread through topics. Maybe setting up a rule that Roms that get posted and aren't updated or have any fixes posted should not be taken seriously and can be deleted. This way less Rom versions circulate the thread and only higher quality builds by Chefs are available. Also a good rule might be to have the cooks post more info about the sources and tools used for their builds, like Kitchen used, Base used, Patches used oem packages used. So new users more easily understand that no Rom has no history. It also takes away the polish of parading with your ego. Maybe even changing the main wizard topics into
1. Kitchen Development
2. How To & Troubleshooting
3. Rom Builds testing
4. Custom Made Software & tweaks
5. Hardware and Accesoires
6. To be Deleted (either move topics or delete them when re/placed into new main topics)
Then indeed phase out unneeded old posts if the information is passed into new threads that accordingly aknowledge the sources.
What i'm trying to say is, to change the perception a bit more that this is not a Technical support site and more of a doing site.
I think the main topics can set an expectation and the current ones don't give the impression that flashing is not kids biznz.
Also it looks like there are to many uploads of the same home screens, software etc. (i think even i am quilty of that).
I'm all for a big clean up but with the focus on retaining the history and origin as much as possible even if it means loosing a few classic threads.
You as admin can set the tone and expectation and a clear message should be sent to junior cooks that collaboration is what drives this site.

A Newie thread request

I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)

Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
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Yes SIR Create some rules.I don't want to be a bad guy I am also not so skilled but at list I try to read .I flash for 2 years from this forum (starting with Hermes-TyTn and noe Kaiser-TyTn II) and always I find the answer in some thread on XDA.
Newbe at list think that you can easily brick your devices and forget about warranty if you don't read before.For shure you will find the answear at list 10 times .
Developers keep the good work !!!

Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
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Not to be rude but have you searched yourself? There is already like few threads addressing this same concern. It does not matter how many threads/sections we create, n00bs will always ask the questions again.

*ggggg* ---> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=356895
If you have some ideas to add there, just PM me. ^^

In my humble opinion....
WARNING.... Long messge ahead....
Since day one of reading this and other "groups" I've thought how chaotic and difficult it is to be involved in this. Speaking from an engineering perspective, the problems discussed on this board may be difficult to solve, but once solved it shouldn't be difficult for others to find the answers. But it often is!
Yes, the repeated asking of the same question is a problem. But the suggestion in the original message thread won't solve it. Yes, people (and not just newies) will continue to repeat the already answered questions.
So let's take the original question (with a little editorial license)
How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
And how about this one to make it easy for the developers as well.
How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
Here's my take on getting to the answer...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly?
3) What's reasonable to get the results you want?
---------------- My thoughts on question 1 ------------------
If I may take a stab at it at a high level...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
a) Infrastructure - Simplistic and fairly free form tool
b) Mechanisims - almost none, system depends solely on humans following guidelines, monitoring and enforcing guidelines
c) Guidelines - minimum, focused on relavance and "goodwill"
------------------ My thoughts on question 2 ----------------------
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly? (using different examples)
a) Problem: How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
- Have an infrastructure that supports.....
Question/Problem description:
Discussion:
Answer/Solution:
..... As opposed to what's here now
Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread
b) Problem: How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
- Have mechanisms to support versioning, bug tracking, documentation, etc....
Release [naming conventions, date, etc]
Features
Docs
Support [same infrastructure as 2a above]
Bug Tracking
..... As opposed to what's here now
Release announcement/Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread.
c) Guidlines is a tough one because once you get past the "goodwill" stuff you have to find balance between being too rigid and too loose while maximizing effectiveness. A steering group is often used to do this sort of thing. It could be comprised of different interests to help ensure a better outcome.
In the end, I think the solution is either - deal with it the way it is, or make it a forum-wide issue to address.

Well, a solution, like you describe it, could be a hierarchical step by step information system... but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day.
The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function. But this problem exists everywhere...

And that takes me back to a NUMERO UNO thread about search, rules and so on where a general code of conduct could be present...
Perhaps the real problem is - that we dont write enough info in the WIKI....
Another suggestion: At 4winmobile there was some threads reserved for stuff related to specific subjects (testing and so) and threads reserved for questions and "thank you" stuff.. Perhaps we should make a new SUB FORUM under KAISER related to questions that are NOT related to developement / testing and stuff like that.
Could be KAISER QUESTIONS where every question/discussion is accepted.
In that way we could open the door for all questions and more without any getting irritated with the number of repeated questions.
??

With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
bmueller77 said:
but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day....
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The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
bmueller77 said:
...The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function.....
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While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.

tomsenna said:
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
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Most do not READ or SEARCH... it is becoming a mojor problem... the same posts over adn over... and then the n00ns ge upset when the people helping them point the to a place to read thier answer rather just handing them the answer straight up.... getting help by asking a question is great but save the rest of us from answering the sames questions over and over when there are stickys and WIKIS to help them..... I don't know alot about this but I search and search and when I can answer questions for people.. most of which I do not know the answer to the question but I can search and find it in about 10 seconds........
Just my 2 cents

This is my first post; I could be considered a super newbie.
I just ordered the Tilt and can hardly wait, I am preparing a folder with all the stuff I need to do including Dutty's V4.
The problem with searching for a noob is, you don't know exactly what to search for. This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
A Newb Board would be perfect, with a few stickies (not the nine million that the other threads have) with the most basic FAQ and guides. From there you can link to the other FAQ or threads.
Questions that I had at first (I ordered a Tilt so they are all based on that):
1) Why do some ROM's have a AT&T Tilt Version, and are these the only ones that will work on my Tilt?-----The Tilt version of ROM's tend to include all of the "bloat" ware that came from AT&T (software trials, etc.).
-----No, you do not have to have a "Tilt" ROM
2) What is the AT&T Tilt missing that other verisons of the "Kaiser" have.
-----AT&T Strips out neat features that come stock on the phone like TouchFlo (an almost iPhone like interface for media) and also includes lots of memory hogging un-needed programs
3)Which ROM should I get?
-----Simply put there is no way to keep this up-to-date enough to answere this question. ROM's are constantly comming out and being updated.
-----Your best bet would be to stick to the most popular ROM's, Dutty's seams to have the most support. You can also look at peoples signatures.
Resources:
--Must Haves:
-----Hard SPL
-----Tilt Keyboard Fix
--Usefull Links (also check stickies)
-----XDA Wiki
-----ROM Flashing FAQ
-----Revert back to Original ROM
-----CHECK THE STICKIES!
If a Newb Board is made I would be more then happy to help create FAQ's/Stickies.
EDIT: I would like to add that the stickies are crazy, way to many replies, what would be good, and an easy solution, would be to split the sticky topics so that the Sticky only has posts from the original auther, he/she can update that sticky with new fixes/updates, and the sticky could contain a link to the discussion thread, that way the sticky stays clean, and every thing can be discussed in a non sticky thread.

Long hours of reading same question over and over again
This is my first post and this is why:
I joined the forum quite a while ago just so I could download the sim unlock for my wizard. I read everything I could find because if it bricked my phone - I knew it would be my fault. I did not have to ask any questions and the unlock process was successful. (it wasn't an easy process for a first timer)
I have been away from the forum for a while, until I got my tilt back in October. I have been hooked ever since. Before I download and install a ROM, I read. When I have issues with a ROM, I read. By the time I am done with the reading, there is nothing for me to ask. I still don't know how the cooks do it, but when I'm ready to find out - I'll read.
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.

Warning.... here I go again... ignore at will
Alaskan_awd said:
This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
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Exactly, couldn't agree more. If this didn't strike an emotional cord with people, I think the answer would be... yes there are people who don't do thier homework first, but there are at least as many who do. So let's focus on the ones that do and perhaps it will give fewer excuses for those who don't.
Having a so called "newbie" area.... sorry that I'm a doubting Thomas, but what would be the change? Okay, let's say it exists. First good thing, get the newbs out of your hair. Now they have a sandbox to play in. Are the information, conversations and all else different? Same structure, just a different sandbox. What happens when they play in your sandbox when they can't find what they are looking for in thier's? I can hear it already (no one in particular of course, but the flames do happen already). After a while, who's playing in the newb sandbox? Some of those with the expertise may conclude "all the newb questions have been answered" and tend not to visit the newb sandbox. And look out... less help... here come the newbs trickling in for help again.
Okay, enough of my drama. My point is, without fixing the real problem you're just fooling yourself (IMHO). Why is it always necessary to to things over and over again rather than do it correctly the first time?
This happens in software and hardware development everyday. There's a difference between managing constraints and good enough. I suppose it happens in every industry doesn't it? I guess it's a human thing

navyguy said:
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more! And the skimming (which is normal) happens when there is no perceived value or frustration or whatever. Then you could miss a minute detail if you were looking for an answer. This happened in the last few days to someone who read and read and read. He asked a question after doing so, was told to go back an read and he did. After a couple of time it was discovered he missed one simple thing.... "cd to the directory". how many messages later burried in a bunch of other conversations were there? Only the next person who has the same problem and dredges through it will know for sure. Just one of many example out there..... and the beat goes on.

MS Voice Command in latest Dutty

Does anyone know what Dutty changed from his 4/9 release from his 4/1 release in relation to MS Voice Command?
He lists the same version (1.6.19209) in both ROMs. However in the 4/1 ROM incoming announcments do not work over BT and in the 4/9 release they do work.
I would stick with using Dutty's 4/9 ROM (for I appreciate his contributions) however the default SIP in that ROM is just horrendous and to get it to use a different SIP involves having to install two additional "SIP" changer programs, and even when it works my device acts up occassionally just starting to type on it's own and then locking up (happened 3 times after a fresh flash and nothing but trying to install PCM Keyboard based on the info in the thread).
I really need MSVC fully working (with BT announcements) and am most likely going to have to go to a clean ROM since no other ROM seems to have this working, and none of the fixes that are out there can be applied to a ROM that has it cooked in already.
Thanks

There is a patch around for VC fixes the announce bug. A quick Google will turn it up for you.

post location
I would think a senior member would know better then to post a question like this on the main page. Users of this web site should be assigned points doing dumb things like posting questions about specific roms on the main page, or not doing their research. The more points a user gets the lower their rating and leading to the eventual "time out" not being able to post for a determined length of time. But seriously I hate reading over 100 pages of dumb a** posts and repeat questions about the rom that I have chosen to install. Out of 100 pages on this site I think 10 are relevent. I have been on this site for a few months and more as a non member. I don't have many posts because when I have a question I look it up and find the answer instead of relying on others to do it for me.

LOL, nice one guys.

I HAVE known about a VC patch, however it appears to be the same patch that has been around for quite some time. I used it on my 6800 to get VC even working on my device, however it did not fix the announce bug. In addition, since the patch has been available for so long I find it strange that it wasn't included in the 4/1 ROM since this was a well known problem (and apparantly an available fix?) well before that date. Also, from my recollection the "fix" replaces pretty much all of the VC files...which I would think (although maybe i'm incorrect here) cause VC to show a different version number. But, in both ROMs the version # is the same.
As to ALL of your responses...
It is posts like yours that do more to overtake the precious commodity of space that you think exists on this site. It is why when a newbie (or someone who has been around a bit, like myself) has to search through 50 threads to find any type of adequate response, because posts like yours serve to obscure information rather than present it.
It is posts like yours that is what is wrong with this site and prevent it from being as valuable a resource to old and new members alike. If instead of your criticizing and mocking you simply stated the answer (if you knew it conclusively), or linked to a thread where someone else conclusively stated the answer, or simply didn't respond, then we wouldn't have these issues that some of you think are so critically horrible with this site.
If you all took the high road and simply linked to the appropriate thread, then guess what...ALL THREADS ABOUT A TOPIC WOULD LEAD TO THE PROPER ANSWER. Thus, when doing a simple search, it would be exceedingly simple to find the answer. This forum is JUST as cluttered with useless posts like yours as they are with posts like mine. However my post at leasts attempt to gain and share information, where your posts serve to mock, belittle, and obfuscate.
@hvbelton - While I appreciate your seemingly helpful response, it is not much use and serves as more wasted space. Let's assume that as a Senior member I did some basic searches and already had some exposure to the topic but was still confused on some point. It would have been better to provide a link yourself if you are highly familiar with the answer instead of vaguely pointing me in some direction which won't likely give any further focus to what i am looking for.
@mlcohen - I think I address the total uselessness of your post above. Ignore a post if you don't want to respond. Think about the fact that posts like yours (which there are hundreds if not thousands on this site) serve as banal a purpose as you claim my post does.
@P1Tater - I almost don't want to address this response. I'll only say it is sophmoric and serves 0 purpose in a place like this where people are supposed to gather and share information.

@ benga
Nothing was meant towards you. I was just chuckling at what was previously posted. Why is everyone so dad-gum touchy lately?

P1Tater said:
@ benga
Nothing was meant towards you. I was just chuckling at what was previously posted. Why is everyone so dad-gum touchy lately?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because nobody hugged them enough when they were little?

P1Tater said:
@ benga
Nothing was meant towards you. I was just chuckling at what was previously posted. Why is everyone so dad-gum touchy lately?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am touchy because I am being called dumb and lazy (not doing my research) by a lurker who has given nothing back to this community (hvbelton). I won't state that I have been a MAJOR contributor here. But at least half my posts are to foster valid discussion or give answers to questions I can.
Then in addition to that post, yours serves to further the sentiment by reinforcing it.
If I am dumb or lazy for being legitimately confused by a patch, which replaces ALL the files of a program with versions that are months (if not over a year) older than the current release, AND still displays the same version number, then I admit to it. However there are many as dumb and lazy as myself as this is a hot topic across many forum boards.
Maybe one of you brilliant programmers would like to go into detail about what the specific problem is with even the latest release of VC in Dutty's 4/1 ROM and why incoming announcments still don't work? Please describe in depth as to why replacing the core DLLs with a much older version (and are they also patched?...and why are the file sizes so considerably smaller?) will fix the issue.
If you took your time to add something to the conversation instead of bringing it to a lower level, we might ALL learn something new. I'm sure that 99.9% of those who might have used this fix still don't understand why it works. This is after all xda-developers, not xda-letmegrabsomefilesandjustloadthemonmydeviceandseewhathappens

bengalih said:
I am touchy because I am being called dumb and lazy (not doing my research) by a lurker who has given nothing back to this community (hvbelton). I won't state that I have been a MAJOR contributor here. But at least half my posts are to foster valid discussion or give answers to questions I can.
Then in addition to that post, yours serves to further the sentiment by reinforcing it.
If I am dumb or lazy for being legitimately confused by a patch, which replaces ALL the files of a program with versions that are months (if not over a year) older than the current release, AND still displays the same version number, then I admit to it. However there are many as dumb and lazy as myself as this is a hot topic across many forum boards.
Maybe one of you brilliant programmers would like to go into detail about what the specific problem is with even the latest release of VC in Dutty's 4/1 ROM and why incoming announcments still don't work? Please describe in depth as to why replacing the core DLLs with a much older version (and are they also patched?...and why are the file sizes so considerably smaller?) will fix the issue.
If you took your time to add something to the conversation instead of bringing it to a lower level, we might ALL learn something new. I'm sure that 99.9% of those who might have used this fix still don't understand why it works. This is after all xda-developers, not xda-letmegrabsomefilesandjustloadthemonmydeviceandseewhathappens
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Geesh man have a xanax. It was a freaking chuckle. It's not like i came to your house and had my way with your other half (as long as its of the female persuasion). Chill

thank you in advance

Hi Everyone,
I too would love to hear the solution to this problem. Hopefully some knowledgeable person will share the answer and help us all.
Thanks in advance!!!

bengalih said:
As to ALL of your responses...
It is posts like yours that do more to overtake the precious commodity of space that you think exists on this site. It is why when a newbie (or someone who has been around a bit, like myself) has to search through 50 threads to find any type of adequate response, because posts like yours serve to obscure information rather than present it.
It is posts like yours that is what is wrong with this site and prevent it from being as valuable a resource to old and new members alike. If instead of your criticizing and mocking you simply stated the answer (if you knew it conclusively), or linked to a thread where someone else conclusively stated the answer, or simply didn't respond, then we wouldn't have these issues that some of you think are so critically horrible with this site.
If you all took the high road and simply linked to the appropriate thread, then guess what...ALL THREADS ABOUT A TOPIC WOULD LEAD TO THE PROPER ANSWER. Thus, when doing a simple search, it would be exceedingly simple to find the answer. This forum is JUST as cluttered with useless posts like yours as they are with posts like mine. However my post at leasts attempt to gain and share information, where your posts serve to mock, belittle, and obfuscate.
@hvbelton - While I appreciate your seemingly helpful response, it is not much use and serves as more wasted space. Let's assume that as a Senior member I did some basic searches and already had some exposure to the topic but was still confused on some point. It would have been better to provide a link yourself if you are highly familiar with the answer instead of vaguely pointing me in some direction which won't likely give any further focus to what i am looking for.
@mlcohen - I think I address the total uselessness of your post above. Ignore a post if you don't want to respond. Think about the fact that posts like yours (which there are hundreds if not thousands on this site) serve as banal a purpose as you claim my post does.
@P1Tater - I almost don't want to address this response. I'll only say it is sophmoric and serves 0 purpose in a place like this where people are supposed to gather and share information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN BROTHER! I feel the same way. If someone posts something in the wrong section, stop being a thread troll and either contribute to a constructive response, or SHUT THE HELL UP. Send the user a PM and ask them to move it to the right post, instead of filling up valuable space with useless info.
I completely agree, it's useless trying to search for information when you have 50 pages of crap to go through.
*****************
ANSWER:
Ok with that being said (and I know you said you didn't want to use this, but I am posting it for others) here is a link to the thread regarding fixing the announce issues:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=333260&highlight=voice+command+fix
It is working on my tilt, without using the patch. I just had to go into the VC settings (Start > Settings > Personal > Voice Command) Click on annoucements, and select the annoucement method, and uncheck "Only during free time"

[Q] Flashing issues

OK, heres the deal. I have a FUZE and want to flash it. As much useful information as there is on this forum, it is nearly impossible (as stated by many of the members here) to find anything in threads with 30, 50, 90 or even 300 pages. It just is not efficient. There is no good guide that has only constants (e.g., they all say you may need this version of SPL, radio, etc.). I would like some sort of UPDATED, concrete guide. I am willing to donate to whichever one of the developers handles this for me and I also think it would be hugely beneficial to the users of the forum. My hopes is that it becomes a locked thread so it cannot be polluted and it only stays a useful guide. The people on this forum are amazingly knowledgeable, probably the best on the net... There just needs to be organization and I'd really like to get that ball moving. Here is what I'd like
1) The fastest, cleanest, most stable ROM
2) The most efficient radio (I'm fine with my current signal strength, which radio does that equate to)
3) The LEAST maintenance, meaning internet settings for AT&T, proxies, settings, all the task manager junk that has to be done.
I would even take one of the cleaned up AT&T ROMS as long as it isn't as slow as a 500lb man in a 40yd dash.
I understand that creating ROMs is no easy task; However, being proficient in the business and technology world, I can bring a few things to the table. Inaccurate and disorganized information usually causes the collapse of many businesses and I feel that is the biggest downside of this forum. Just think about how hard it would be if your file cabinet of work was turned upside down and there was little to no organization? Someone from the outside trying to look for a file would have no clue where to start (e.g. looking at all of the thread names is quite overwhelming... [ROM] [ENG] [READY!|15 NOV] ROMeOS² v1.40.1 (19974.1.2.8|STABLE)). Noobs (including myself) have NO IDEA what any of that means until we start reading.
Therefore, if anyone is willing to help me get this started, I would gladly donate.
Thanks for listening, guys... I look forward to working with everyone.

Well, the first place to start is the Wiki specific to the Raphael. There you can find all the necessary info about the Raphael.
It seems you want to flash a ROM to your device. Right now there's only a handful available and you will have to try to see what best fits your needs. If you flash one, you don't like it, flash another.
If you read the Wiki you will see that you NEED to HardSPL before flashing a ROM. This is a must and I'm not sure where you're finding that it may be needed or not. Just HardSPL before you flash your ROM. And right now there's only 1 HardSPL, at least that I know of in this forum.
As for ROM naming/etc, go to the specific thread to find out more info. I understand the point about the overwheling messages that are here and many times there are just repeats of things that were answer before. However, everyone should take the time to read the sticky posts in the forum as they have very important information you need to know before you start messing with your device. I've been flashing ROMs for about a year now on my Tilt and recently move to the Fuze. A name as the one you referenced
"[ROM] [ENG] [READY!|15 NOV] ROMeOS² v1.40.1 (19974.1.2.8|STABLE", you should be able to figure most of it. It's a ROM, it's ENGlish, It's READY, release 15 Nov, and it's STABLE. The other info is specific to the person who releases it and you will find the info by reading the first 1-3 posts within the thread. What you wrote is the equivalent of reading something you don't have any idea about and you want to understand it all in the same sentence without doing some type of research. Not sure how that works.
The guys that releases these ROMs take their time to make sure all the necessary info for a specific ROM release is contain within the first 3 posts of a thread. It's the best place to gather all the info you need about a ROM.
Anyway, hope this helps you.

As has been said MANY times:
1) there is no BEST rom
2) there is no BEST radio
Each is measured subjectively based on your needs. Most of the information you need can be found in the threads related to HARDSPL, Radios, & the roms you're flashing.
Thread Closed.

In need of help installing JustHome rom for Herald...from the begging!

I downloaded the .7z file for JustHome rom for Herald thanks to IVAN!. My IPL is 4.10.0002 and SPL 4.10.0000, I have a microSD ship and ready for action. I just need the walkthrough for installing ROMs from scratch. How do I do the hardspl....I need complete guidance!

You need to search better.

there is a "giude to flashing" in one of these theads that is specific to the htc herald which is the name for you "wing" i thing you might find it under "wiki htc herald " you can probably google it. it is a step by step guide. hope that helps.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358225 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358615 goodluck

I apologize now for the lack of clear answers, and I understand your frustration, even if you did search and read those pages. Sometimes for newbs they can be a bit difficult to understand, and they were for me too, so I'll tell you how in newb language and provide the tools necessary.
First things first, you need to download the folder im going to provide you. Save the zip to your desktop and extract it. Now the fun begins.
1. Drag and extract the .nbh file you downloaded from JustHome and place it inside the RUU folder located inside of the MyFirstRom folder.
2. Turn your phone to flight mode. You can do this in the Comm Manager found in your Connection Settings.
3. Next make sure your phone is connected to your computer and you have Activesync (Win XP) or Mobile Device Center (Vista or Windows 7) connected with a green light.
4. Execute the application Herald-USPL (located in the MyFirstRom folder).
5. Wait for it to verify, press Enter. Wait for it to load SPL, PDA screen will go white at about 70 percent. If it doesn't and it hangs on a tux logo with a little command prompt (on the phone, sometimes this happens.) don't worry and just reset and try again.
6.If everything is successful and the PDA screen is white, press Enter and it'll launch the RUU installer application on your computer.
7. Follow the instructions, Press the Update button when it asks you what ROM you are installing. It should show some version number. Press Next, and it'll start flashing. It will say it will take 10 minutes, it'll go faster than that. After it's finished, the PDA will automatically reset to the new RUU.
If you experience any problems, don't panic, Soft Reset your device by pushing the stylus into the small whole next to the volume slider. If the phone goes into an endless reset, don't panic... Hard reset your phone by pressing holding the two soft-keys (keys with lines located above the Windows key and Ok key) while pressing the sylus into the reset hole. Release the soft keys while still holding reset and then release the reset. It will come up with a screen telling you you are being set to factory settings, press the Send key. (Green phone key)
I know you asked about HardSPL, but for the purpose of this ROM and some others, you won't need it. I prefer USPL because there's not a very easy way to brick your phone. If something goes terribly wrong, generally you can just Hard Reset and its all better.
Good luck, and I'm not liable for any damage to your phones OS or hardware, blah...

that was cool of you to take the time and post all that.wish i had that all explained to me when i started messin around.

bishoprnpb said:
that was cool of you to take the time and post all that.wish i had that all explained to me when i started messin around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I just recently got started after buying a Wing a few weeks ago on E-Bay. I understand the frustration, and frankly I feel bad for new people... A lot of these threads are so out-dated now, and no one seems to want to help new people any more, with the exception of maybe Ivan who is working on a whole cooking guide. And the past instructions can get a little fuzzy. Even on the second post of Ivan's instructions it says to ask questions if you don't understand, but it seems like questions are just getting answered with more and more links to sites like Google.

Thank for step by step
Now I flash my dopodC800 to ITsPapablack but every time I reset, it's not show SPL
today I will flash again to "gulllums Touchflo2D II"
can I use same step?

What's the fastest way to get specific help at User forums?
apreichner said:
so I'll tell you how in newb language and provide the tools necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right that many MANY threads are now obsolete, or have conflicting language & directions. Can I suggest that you edit your post to give it an explanatory title, so that it can be indexed by the search engine of this site, as well as by google? That way others may find your very post, which helps them bridge the gaps.
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
Please Mr. or Ms. New User, would you start here by simply first reading our Table of Contents -- or list of Forums -- before you begin to post? Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!

pungcheer said:
Thank for step by step
Now I flash my dopodC800 to ITsPapablack but every time I reset, it's not show SPL
today I will flash again to "gulllums Touchflo2D II"
can I use same step?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
quicksite said:
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
Quote:
Please Mr. or Ms. New User, would you start here by simply first reading our Table of Contents -- or list of Forums -- before you begin to post? Thank you.
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... I'll explain my point of view in the other forum, seeing as how this is the ROM development forum, and post a link.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3836096#post3836096

I was able to figure it out on my own with no posts, just searching. I've never had a problem.

quicksite said:
You are right that many MANY threads are now obsolete, or have conflicting language & directions. Can I suggest that you edit your post to give it an explanatory title, so that it can be indexed by the search engine of this site, as well as by google? That way others may find your very post, which helps them bridge the gaps.
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.Yes.Yes. Every noob situation is different as many already have the concept of a "list" and its purpose. The problem I see everyday is that new people never read the rules. I know I didnt, but I already understood why there iwas even a list. Its too be read and understood that noob questions do not go where it says "This forum is only meant fro ROM issues and ROM development." Its why the admins get fed up. Its really the responsibility of the poster to be informed about where to post on a forum. Even is there is 3 million forums (yes i know its overwhelming at first) there is only 4 subcategories. Read the rules. If you get lost and dont know what to do. Read the rules. Even if you dont get your answer, at least you'll learn to appreciate when someone posts in the correct place. Now im getting worked up on this. To conclude. The poster was very lucky to receive such nice answers to his question.
raptoro07 said:
I was able to figure it out on my own with no posts, just searching. I've never had a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only more people had that quality in them the world would be a better place.

My point is not to say the information isn't here already, my point is to say the information isn't as clear, as updated, and easily accessible as it could be. If I had my way, you would have a forum specially devoted to Tutorials. And on that tutorial forum you would have a giant sticky that says, "The Complete Idiots Guide on Flashing" (emphasis on complete). It wouldn't give you links to like 20 different libraries of dictionary definitions, wikis, and other guides. It would be like a picture book with easily seen pictures of each step. Who knows we could make it rhyme and it would be like Dr.Seus for nerds. I think after my Complete Cab Collection is finished, I'll work on such a page.
The point is: Herald and Herald Mobile 6 are a little redundant. Why do we need both? What is the point? I read the rules and the forum FAQ and all of that, and I'm not finding an answer to the usefulness of having both. And unfortunately, where are the mods during all of this? From what Ivan says, they aren't taking applications for Mods, but they probably should be. Just look at how long this post is able to get in this thread and you'll see my point.
True eventually you find an answer after reading through 8-10 posts, 2-4 wikis, 3-6 google searches, and 8-10 panic attacks after doing a bad rom attempt. Does it really have to be this way?

apreichner said:
My point is not to say the information isn't here already, my point is to say the information isn't as clear, as updated, and easily accessible as it could be. If I had my way, you would have a forum specially devoted to Tutorials. And on that tutorial forum you would have a giant sticky that says, "The Complete Idiots Guide on Flashing" (emphasis on complete). It wouldn't give you links to like 20 different libraries of dictionary definitions, wikis, and other guides. It would be like a picture book with easily seen pictures of each step. Who knows we could make it rhyme and it would be like Dr.Seus for nerds. I think after my Complete Cab Collection is finished, I'll work on such a page.
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I've been trying to get stuff like this set up. I'm trying to become a mod for partially this reason.
I HAVE posted a complete guide on flashing, but it needs a little updating. The thing about all this is that it's not a business. A bunch of people (like me) read and read and read and gather data from one place and another and put it together to make something useful for our phones. The problem is, being that it's a forum, no one really wants to have to sit there and dedicate hour after hour to just writing out tutorials, when people like me, the ones who have that knowledge already, spend hours and hours and hours making ROMs for everybody else.
rstweb said:
The point is: Herald and Herald Mobile 6 are a little redundant. Why do we need both? What is the point? I read the rules and the forum FAQ and all of that, and I'm not finding an answer to the usefulness of having both. And unfortunately, where are the mods during all of this? From what Ivan says, they aren't taking applications for Mods, but they probably should be. Just look at how long this post is able to get in this thread and you'll see my point.
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Trust me, I've been pushing the whole redundancy issue for a while already. They do have a lot of mods, but none of them really work the Herald forum due to the fact that it's an old device with little to no traffic as compared to the other phone forums.
rstweb said:
True eventually you find an answer after reading through 8-10 posts, 2-4 wikis, 3-6 google searches, and 8-10 panic attacks after doing a bad rom attempt. Does it really have to be this way?
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There IS one great positive aspect to doing it this way. On the way to learn what you THINK you need to learn, you end up learning what you TRULY need to learn accidently. We live in a society where everyone wants the answers right away and to not understand the context. Sometimes, the context is more important than the answers. Searching in this manner forces the context on you before you reach an answer.

ivanmmj said:
I've been trying to get stuff like this set up. I'm trying to become a mod for partially this reason.
I HAVE posted a complete guide on flashing, but it needs a little updating. The thing about all this is that it's not a business. A bunch of people (like me) read and read and read and gather data from one place and another and put it together to make something useful for our phones. The problem is, being that it's a forum, no one really wants to have to sit there and dedicate hour after hour to just writing out tutorials, when people like me, the ones who have that knowledge already, spend hours and hours and hours making ROMs for everybody else.
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I agree, not everyone can do everything at once. You have done a pretty good job, but you have a life, and a wife, so you can't keep up all of that plus doing your ROMs, plus writing out Tutorial after Tutorial. Maybe that's why you have unmarried people like me here who can complain and write up cab collections at the same time . If only we had a female moderator, this forum would be spotless, and she could yell at dumb people at the same time.
ivanmmj said:
Trust me, I've been pushing the whole redundancy issue for a while already. They do have a lot of mods, but none of them really work the Herald forum due to the fact that it's an old device with little to no traffic as compared to the other phone forums.
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I guess that's true, maybe it kind of disappoints me seeing as how I didn't get the Wing too long ago. And what does it hurt adding someone as a Mod... It's not like they are paying you.
ivanmmj said:
There IS one great positive aspect to doing it this way. On the way to learn what you THINK you need to learn, you end up learning what you TRULY need to learn accidently. We live in a society where everyone wants the answers right away and to not understand the context. Sometimes, the context is more important than the answers. Searching in this manner forces the context on you before you reach an answer.
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I agree that searching forces the context. However, I also think it's possible to put the context together for people. You're right, society is content on finding what we want right away. However, what about the ordinary people who don't really want to dive so in depth into a pool of XDA Development. Should they not be given the right to flash a ROM to a phone, seeing as how it's pretty simple to do now. For people like me... Computer Science Majors... I love learning this context and don't mind the research, but not everyone is exactly like me or you.

apreichner said:
However, what about the ordinary people who don't really want to dive so in depth into a pool of XDA Development. Should they not be given the right to flash a ROM to a phone, seeing as how it's pretty simple to do now. For people like me... Computer Science Majors... I love learning this context and don't mind the research, but not everyone is exactly like me or you.
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I think everybody should know what he is doing before he´s trying to do it.
They have to know at least about the things that can happen.
In the last weaks dozens of users had bricked their phone´s by not reading, if there wasn´t the goldcard.
I don´t like the idea of people that come to this Forum, get everything served on silver plates and leave again without giving something back to the community.
I developed nothing by myself but at least i read the threads, try to help others when i can with answers or testing their work and give feedback.
There are countless threads and user´s that proof my point.

Zaknafein21 said:
I think everybody should know what he is doing before he´s trying to do it.
They have to know at least about the things that can happen.
In the last weaks dozens of users had bricked their phone´s by not reading, if there wasn´t the goldcard.
I don´t like the idea of people that come to this Forum, get everything served on silver plates and leave again without giving something back to the community.
I developed nothing by myself but at least i read the threads, try to help others when i can with answers or testing their work and give feedback.
There are countless threads and user´s that proof my point.
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Of course they should know what could happen. But it doesn't take a whole lot of threads to tell you the risks, it takes a paragraph, maybe two at most. Just read the back of a bottle of sleeping pills. There are more risks to taking those and yet they fit them in the space the size of an inch, maybe an inch and a half. And if things were organized, it would be like, "If these happen, see this thread." and there's a thread full of problems and solutions. And at the bottom, "If you cannot find your problem, try Searching. Recommend using Google XDA search, because normal XDA search sucks balls."
I have seen the posts of people who have bricked their phone. Although, in my opinion, this can be as much to blame as them not reading, as the material is not easily presented. It also doesn't help that organization has ceased to exist...
My idea was not to hand everything on a silver platter, either way, you have to read something or else you'll screw up... My idea is to take the information already available, revise it, update it, and make it easily available. Rather than hidden on page 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm thinking since there are no mods available to come Sticky some of these really important things on pages 2, 3, 4, and 5... I might just bump them all.
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks. It reminds me of some guy calling to get support and all he is is directed to an automated service, sometimes you just WANT to hear a human voice for once in your miserable support seeking life...

apreichner said:
Of course they should know what could happen. But it doesn't take a whole lot of threads to tell you the risks, it takes a paragraph, maybe two at most. Just read the back of a bottle of sleeping pills. There are more risks to taking those and yet they fit them in the space the size of an inch, maybe an inch and a half. And if things were organized, it would be like, "If these happen, see this thread." and there's a thread full of problems and solutions. And at the bottom, "If you cannot find your problem, try Searching. Recommend using Google XDA search, because normal XDA search sucks balls."
I have seen the posts of people who have bricked their phone. Although, in my opinion, this can be as much to blame as them not reading, as the material is not easily presented. It also doesn't help that organization has ceased to exist...
My idea was not to hand everything on a silver platter, either way, you have to read something or else you'll screw up... My idea is to take the information already available, revise it, update it, and make it easily available. Rather than hidden on page 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm thinking since there are no mods available to come Sticky some of these really important things on pages 2, 3, 4, and 5... I might just bump them all.
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks. It reminds me of some guy calling to get support and all he is is directed to an automated service, sometimes you just WANT to hear a human voice for once in your miserable support seeking life...
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Click to collapse
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^

ivanmmj said:
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
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My point exactly. Thank you Ivan.

apreichner said:
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks.
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That´s not what i was trying to say!
I try to help and would help to start the walkthrough threads but i don´t think this would help. The Stickys allready there aren´t bad especially this sticky
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=369397
I am not frustrated about the done work, i am frustrated about lazy users.
If my point wasn´t clear i think i have to blame my limitited english.
ivanmmj said:
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
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Agree.