Related
XDA Developers
Given the size and nature of this forum now, I was wondering who out there is willing to be a volunteer to administer this forum.
I dont know whats involved, I dont know how much time it takes, but I do know its a thankless job, with zero money, and nobody is asking for help that I can see, but I am suggesting that this topic be used to document who is willing to volunteer and assist.
Perhaps the moderators can them come along and pick some volunteers at their choosing.
So anybody? somebody? everybody? nobody?
To the moderators.... if you are listening, whoever you may be, I am willing to try and help.
I would be willing to volunteer
I am on the forum a lot, so i would be happy to give back to the community by helping out.
To those who are listening up there, I'm in the boat if needed :mrgreen:
I'm happy to help out if I can. I spend too much time on this board anyway :shock:
V
Count me in too...I will be obliged
Since I have an explorer open on this site whenever I work on a computer (which is all day) I probably should have said it sooner:
Count me in too!
hi...
..as we (moderators) listen (sometimes) to what is happening in these forums, we are trying to do our best to clean the forum and ftp.
however, time is very limiting factor. so I would say, that the site might need more of fresh power ;o))) but it's only up to admins and owners of this site, who they gonna choose as for moderators.
thanx for offering your help. lets hope, that admins are listening as well...
take care
buzz
vijay555 said:
I'm happy to help out if I can. I spend too much time on this board anyway :shock:
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi VJ,
I want you as admin @ my site... ;o)))
take care bro... ;o)))
buzz
I'd like to volunteer too...I spend quite some time at the Blue Angel sections (BA, BA Upgrading mostly).
Thanks for the offers and yes they have been seen.
Here is our problem most of you are BA owners and most of the mods are also BA owners.
What we need are poeple to look after the newer sections and people to write wiki pages of the newer sections to stop all the same posts.
Also some of the mods are nolonger as active as they have moved on or things have changed or what ever, its normal.
So we need to work out of the old ones who are still around and of the new ones which sections do they cover.
Mostv of you who have posted here have recived PMs from me.
Mean while the Mods are having there own talk in the Modorator section.
Simon who started this thread also posted to a different thread which resulted in this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=48673
I've been seeing a lot of hostility & berating in the Kaiser forum lately. A lot of it stems from noobies with posts about things that have already been resolved, or about fearfully wanting to flash a new ROM.
A lot of the people with the really advanced CE knowledge are always busy & subtracting from their time affects all of us because they have less time to innovate & create.
I was thinking what if we created a new Sub-forum for Noobies with issues or with a desire to flash, but not the knowledge. We could have a few people there as Mods or some sort of assistant mod as a clearing house for the noobies that are coming everyday.
This could be a introduction to XDA & a way for the Noobie to learn good community principles & basic beginer knowledge. Learn how to post, search & where & how to find the information they need. A way to break them in, with a few patient people helping & guiding them.
If there were more serious issues you would then only have one or two persons bugging everyone else, (& the gods like Oli, Jocky, Dutty, Chainfire, & all the others I'm forgeting) instead of every noobie with the same question every day.
I am up for doing something like this, I've learned a lot here, & I'm sure one or two others would also be willing to give some of their time to make this place better.
With the tools available through IM & File Sharing thru MSN Messenger, I think we could cut the number of duplicate posts, & flame responses in half easily making it easier for everyone to find the information they need.
What do you think?
1. Is a noobie flashing & problem sub-forum a good idea?
2. Are you willing to help out & give back?
Yes and Yes
Every forum goes through this crap whenever a new flashing starts. Just realise that you were a noob once and get over it.
Just ignore noob posts if you don't want to help them.
That won't fix the problem. Why? The n00bs that post repeatedly answered questions don't read...and if they don't read then they'll post in the wrong forum because they "didn't know any better"...
This comes back to the same thing I've said all along...you can't fix stupid. Yes, we were all n00bs at one point. In many ways we will always be n00bs because tech changes so fast. But the majority of us take the time to read and research a bit to make sure the question hasn't been asked or to make sure we have all the information we need before embarking on the addictive ride of ROM Flashing. The ones that aren't willing to do that will most likely not bother asking questions in the n00b forum...they'll just post away in the Upgrading forum without a care in the world.
I understand the frustration with seeing so many of us lose it and unleash the fury of a thousand flames upon the unsuspecting n00b...and I apologize for my part in that...sorta...because I think they do deserve to have their brains bashed in by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick for not reading...
Agree with jarek91, can't fix stupid, just have to hope that they evolve quick enough to not be a consistent nuisance or hope they end up on the darwin awards email.
well, if we keep ignoring, soon, we'll get tire and stop coming here because the forum is flooded w/ noob questions (those questions have been answered numerous of time). They start the question with "I've searched, but could NOT find anything" eventhough the answer is in the stickies just above their questions.
BTW, before you criticize me, GSLEON3, or anyone for supporting the new sub forum for newbie, remember that, this forums is xda-developers, we develop and share knowledge. We welcome noob, but dont want to spend too much time with noob questions (most of the time I ignore )
xultar said:
Every forum goes through this crap whenever a new flashing starts. Just realise that you were a noob once and get over it.
Just ignore noob posts if you don't want to help them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I DO REALIZE THAT! I'm talking about centralizing it & am willing to help. I don't think that this is part of "Every Forum", this is the Kaiser Forum & includes the best & brightest from XDA. So why not make it a different forum, set it apart from the others & make it a better community through helping others. I think this would not only help the noobie, but everyone as a whole would benefit because the upgrading forum would be less cluttered making the search function actually usable to the new guy that doesn't undestand how to narrow his searches.
I understand about not reading, but they'd learn quickly if they see they only get answers if they go to the big bold "NOOBIES START HERE" forum. Especially if there's a sticky that says "Your post WILL be DELETED unless".
GSLEON3 said:
I understand about not reading, but they'd learn quickly if they see they only get answers if they go to the big bold "NOOBIES START HERE" forum. Especially if there's a sticky that says "Your post WILL be DELETED unless".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was a stickie?
Which is exactly how that would be met. (So I'm a pessimist...)
We've all asked "n00b" questions, and we should be allowed to do so. If you make a forum called "n00b questions" the same people who don't read the stickies will STILL post in the main forum, and say they didn't see the "n00b questions" forum.
It's unavoidable, and the best thing we can do is help the people who ask these questions by telling them to search, but also providing them the answer, so that they learn and get their answer.
met3ora said:
We've all asked "n00b" questions, and we should be allowed to do so. If you make a forum called "n00b questions" the same people who don't read the stickies will STILL post in the main forum, and say they didn't see the "n00b questions" forum.
It's unavoidable, and the best thing we can do is help the people who ask these questions by telling them to search, but also providing them the answer, so that they learn and get their answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still ask dumb questions from time to time. My intent is not to slam the new guy, quite the opposite actually. I'm talking about a sub-forum where they can find the answer & a little support to some of the most common questions & issues that arise when entering the world of Flashing & Upgrading.
A place where a few willing people can hook up with the new comer & use tools klike IM & filesharing to walk the new guy through flashing & problem solving, kind of hands on instruction where you can walk the timid newcomer through his issues while using the tools to show him, through his own action, how to figure things out. Again, a sort of less advanced clearing house of sorts. Not a place of punishment for being new, but more of a "Welcome to XDA, figuring this stuff out can be fun & exciting, let me show you how" type of a place.
I like the noobie, & I really like the noobie that has a "I think my phone is bricked" challenge. I just think it would be a nice touch to have a place for the new guy to go where he could not just find the answers, but the reasoning behind them.
I also know that many don't read the stickies, but people do read the forum headers, the name of the forum & sub-forum, & if they saw "This is the place to get answers about how to flash & fix flash issues, that is where he's gonna go. Everybody else has been here long enough to know that if they have a major contribution, where it should be posted.
It would be like tiered service, most noobie problems are similar & can be handled there, if something more advanced pops up, or a bug detemined to affect many, then the mod or admin bumps it up to the next level.
Oh, & mcmexican you think everyone's an idiot
Maybe this is material for a new thread, but...
I think we should use a new wiki.
1. The wiki software used here is pretty bad.
2. The wiki here takes up bandwidth.
Using something like wetpaint.com (there are many others) provides a place that's different from here, using someone else's bandwidth.
Also, they have easier-to-edit wiki's. I think the more attractive, organized, and navigable the wiki is, the less newbie problems we'll have.
nevermind...
I think the subforum sounds like an excellent idea. I'm not nearly an expert but have done some flashing and so on and would gladly help out if I have the time. Only problem as I can see is that it will be hard to draw the line between the "noob forum" and the regular one.
i am trying for ten minutes to put my thoughts into words...English is not my native language. i hope i am gonna be able to make myself understood...
here is how to do it:
1. create something like a gate or tunnel where newbies have to go through. some thing, where they cant right away post something. they can read.
and if they want to post a tread, they have to go through some kind of selection menu or so. just like on ebay when you want to sell something.
so lets say someone wants to post a tread, there is a selection of main toppings they have to go through. and so on. till they get automatically redirected to the answer of what they were going to ask in the first place...
they are forced to go through some kind of multiple choice thing...
2. i think its super annoying when someone like dutty brings out a new ROM and you want to read through it, to find out what might be wrong with it, just to read a million people saying: cool man, thanks dude blablabla.
don't get me wrong. i love his ROMs. but i should sent him a pm or create a poll thing so people vote on how much they like it. his treads reach easily 2000 replies. 1900 are thank you notes...
thanks dutty,
georgios
I agree. The same people not searching the forums, nor reading stickies, the Wiki, or any FAQ's will post in the regular forums anyway. I think when you get some of these people new to the forum there is so much information they get overwhelmed and just ask in the first place they find.
In another forum I'm a member of we have people asking Verizon questions in the AT&T forum, people asking about CDMA phones in the GSM forum, and such. We really divided it up... there are separate forums for each carrier, and forums for each of the major device manufacturers, then there's the Motorola forum with the Razr subfourm, and then there's the CDMA models and GSM model subforums under that. The vague questions still come... "I want to hack my phone, how do I do that???" When you finally get them to reply back with the model and carrier they have they have almost always posted in the wrong forum.
I guess what I'm saying is that it sounds like a good idea, but the problem will still be there, and seem even worse, because those that post first and read the FAQ's later (If at all) will be posting in the main forum anyway.
-Jay
I am a brand new guy to the board and have only had my Tilt little over a week and have really enjoyed testing and learning all this stuff that a ton of you guys have already mastered. I like the idea of giving us new guys a area where we can try and hash things out ourselves. When you are new you don't mind if guys ask the same questions you just ask 10 mins ago, but I know that must be a pain in the butt to some of the more skilled and seasoned guys around here. I believe if you just leave us on our own where we can go back and read what you guys have already posted for us and then come back and ask questions that we might still have between ourselves then we will figure it out soon enough and lets face it, that is how we all learn. Just my 2 cents, but please make sure you pros do stop by and check on us ever so often so we don't blow up the mobile phone world.
Thanks,
JMan
I like the sub-forum idea. Just to point out, Modaco does something like this... they have a beginner forum. Not that xda has to be like Modaco, but there is a precedent for this...
Absolute Beginners
New to Windows Mobile? New to MoDaCo? Lost and don't know where to start? Post in here and a member of our team will point you in the right direction, and move your post to the appropriate area!
http://www.modaco.com/forum.html
You could make people who like to direct and assist others as the moderators of this forum to act as traffic cops... so to speak. This will leave the cooks to focus on doing great ROMs.
I have a question for a Mod or Admin if they read this... maybe the search problem is a admin setting problem. Can someone verify that vBulletin Search to FULLTEXT inside the admincp of vBulletin?
There are also ways to embed google search into the forum:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?threadid=171042
why not create a new one?
I'm new to the forum, and honestly did not fully understand the title of the forum till now - that the forum was primarily for hard core developers. Given the success and ease of Google, we find a gold mine like xda, and fall in love.
So since there is a Kaiser, Kaiser upgrading, and Kaiser Accessories, why can't there be a Kaiser for rookies (took me a while to figure out what what a noob was). That might be a way for us lesser ones ( juniors) to talk, and the genius's out there (seniors) dont subscribe ! Then u would have every right to FLAME anyone on the upgrading forum. Plus we may be more willing to jump in and answer without the guru's watching.
my 2 cents
I think a noobie forum is a good idea. I too have seen alot of hostility towards "stupid" or repeat questions. While I am not exactly a noobie, I still have a dumb question every now and then, that's just the way it goes when one is learning I guess. I often can't find things when I search, when you are very new this is especially hard, because sometimes you don't even know what to search for.
I have received excellent help here from many kind people, and just don't know what I would have done without this forum. But even I, who am not a COMPLETE noobie, got made fun of the other day by a poster, because after reading something several times, I missed something on a page. The poster not only posted twice to point out my stupidity, but even took the time and energy to create a photoshop graphic to show what an idiot I was for missing the information. I thought it was sad that attitude was taken. I ALWAYS go out of my way to help others, with what limited knowledge I have. I often receive PMs of can you help me..., and I try my best to explain things as clearly as I can.
I totally understand that there are many here, who are way too advanced for questions like "how do I make my today look like yours?" And I would never expect them to spend time answering, when there time would be much better spent on more advanced things (and I'm not being sarcastic at all, I really do completely understand more advanced members should spend their time on more advanced things). There are some of us here with some knowledge able to help those with simple questions, so I'd say maybe people who are bothered by others posts, could just ignore the dumb questions. LOL, I've never even flashed a ROM (too chicken and broke to void my warranty), but I sure can put together a great looking and functioning Today screen. An I surely know how to install every tweak and cab to make my phone function as efficiently as possible. And, I will be more than happy to answer questions of that caliber
Maybe a noobie forum could cut down on some of the hostility, and we could help out beginners. I for one would be more than willing to answer any questions that I am capable of answering, and leave those who are more knowledgeable to deal with the hard stuff
I am seeing more and more dis-respectful replies to newbies then ever before, and it is getting old, all this does is run off potential new comers to this site who might be the next great cooker and spreads a not so good rep about this site
at the same time I see some mods have be respectful to others in there sigs. I think this should become policy across the forum period and those that are rude and disrespectful in their reply should get a vacation to let them know this is not to be tolerated IMO
This site is about growth and interest in these toys of ours, not about ripping newbies who may ask a question that maybe have been asked many times over, so what, why not just post a link to the search and to the Wiki and say welcome to the forums , instead of bashing them? It would leave a better taste in the newbs mouths and they might become a contributor in the future.
Also think about this, just how many of you cookers have something in your sig asking for a cup of coffee ? or Donate to XDA or Donations graciously accepted. Well if a newbie is made to feel welcomed and comfortable here , They are more then likely going leave you a little something.
Me , If I notice a rom cooker being rude, they are not very likely going to get anything from me even if they had something great and useful.
I just replied to a newbie that asked a simple question, but not before someone posted a B.S. reply, I instead answered it with something useful and promoted the search engine at the same time
This did two things, first the newbies was made to feel welcomed and also if someone was to search the same question, they would find a reasonable answer.
BTW B.S. replies just screw up the search results forcing newbies just ask questions instead of finding answers.
Flame away if you want or become part of the solution .
i agree,
there are times that newbs do need help. some of those who i have pointed in the right direction have tried to search, but either search the wrong thing or don't know what they are looking for.
it does work two ways and some of the mods and senior members are to be commended for their help. ( i can think of about 10 folks who go out of their way to help as many as possible and never rip a newb)
those who are helped are more likely to help others.
I find it often takes longer to explain how to use the search facility properly to yield useable results than it takes to answer the specific question, but there is no excuse for rude replies, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
Here is a good example of what I am talking about,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=403829
This reply by kspirit did nothing to help this user ,
No , nothing like that runs on the tilt..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
its these kind of responses that need to be curtailed.
Even though a mod did respond , he/she did nothing regarding the above users response. All this does is give the impression that this behavior is condoned .
I am not knocking the Moderator (I do find him to be very helpful) but they do have a huge influence on how others act on this site, and by not informing this above user that these types of replies are not helpful or uncalled for) they are giving the impression that it is okay.
Mods & Admin , what do you all think ? Am I off track here ?
Just wanted to add this:
If the mods were to take the time to edit the titles like this one " New AT&T Tilt Phone - Help" to something like this...Will software like HTC Home, Mobile Shell, Pocket Informant work on both the tilt & 8525?. or something along those lines.....
This would help with search engine results, Yea its abit more work for the mods to do this but it will help greatly in producing more viable search results .
Just a thought...
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
AthenaLod said:
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh do you search much ? this user did not ask the same question twice....
and there is no excuse for being rude, and so what if they had ? a simple link to the Wiki would be a very easy way to deal with it, and a welcome to the forum would get much better results.
why would I want to donate or promote this site in any form if all I got is ripped on ? hmmm
Like Mike has posted,
if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would yield better results .
by "told" i meant that for example in the kaiser forum, the only sticky there is titled "**BEFORE YOU POST START HERE**" and it says "Read and search before posting. Reply to an existing thread before creating a new thread. Redundant threads will be closed." so, if somebody decides that he/she wants to just ignore this, he/she brought it on themselves. i don't do bad language, or encourage it, but, sometimes some ppl can be really so lazy to even do a search
Just my personal opinion....
I've only been here for a few months and I have to say, I've seen more useless threads then ever before! Now, don't get me wrong, I love to help, and do all the time, but at some point, you see a junior on their first post asking something like, "How do I uninstall an app?", or "How do I turn the phone off?" So at some point of seeing these threads, someone will be a bit frustrated and point them to the search and wiki fetaures located on the top bar instead of a full answer. I fully understand your point, but like I said, these members who join just for a simple answer then after 10 minutes ask why nobody is helping can aggrivate all of us users who come here for new information on a daily basis. Especially when they start a thread, get an answer, and never return.
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
Now in this post, this user was looking for a specific dialer, and of course it's impoosible to search for an image, but I did help. Actually at first, I was a bit mad at the fact they posted the image, but didn't ask in the thread they got the photo from, then realized the image wasn't from here. But after I saw that, I tried to give some info on it, but I can't spend time looking for something they want, but I can help, so I did.
I think I'm done typing , but I'll say this, when I first joined, actually being my first forum, I had a bunch of questions, I didn't feel a need to post a thread for one simple question. I actually spent about a week after work searching and going through a bunch of pages looking for info, and I found a lot!
Also, a suggestion, I asked this in the SPAM thread, how about putting a block on junior users poting new threads? It would prevent SPAM and these simple question threads.
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
Just wanted to say that F2504x4 put the problem very articulately and I totally agree with him. Pointing out a mistake (such as not using the search facility) need not be done in a rude and dismissive way.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
TheChampJT said:
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They should be taking a interest in this.....if they are becoming numb to it , then they need to take a hard look at why they are a moderator, Sorry if this sounds harsh . Moderators are the leaders that others look to for guidance, they help set the tone of the community.
This is a great site, with a lot of great talent , but it will not take long before it becomes over shadowed with a darker side.
Continued growth is key to any forum and community , and running off new comers with not help with that.
Fact is you will always have newbs ignoring stickies and search engines , nothing will ever change that.
All this site can do is maintain a positive atmosphere , and continuing education to those that join .
So i ask again , what say you Admin and mods ?
Thank you pedmond for this , very well put.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
Yesterday 07:49 PM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
F2504x4 said:
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't really think the issue is with Mods and Admin. I do see a lot of evidence of them cleaning up threads if they're getting out of hand and sorting out users that are really getting obnoxious. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members. And certain new members seem to think the world is their private helpdesk and that the purpose of these forums is to instantly deal with their every need. Well in any large group you'll always get those that are unpleasant to deal with - that's life. There are just as many, maybe more, who're a real pleasure to deal with and try their best to help. I think if new members read the forum rules and were prepared to lurk a bit before posting, then they'd quickly get an idea of what types of questions to ask and how to get help.
So while I personally totally agree with your views on decent behaviour etc I don't think its an issue to get wound up about. If you can filter out some of the fluff, this site is still the best resource for our phones by far.
(But I've only got about 80 posts, so maybe I'll change my mind when I hit 100! )
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2360488&posted=1#post2360488
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
l3v5y said:
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow what a way to start off a reply Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO
First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.
what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .
swanlm said:
. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while I agree with a lot of what you said, In the example I gave , its even the low post count members that are posting these less then helpful responses, so that is telling me that this a is trend that is spreading and the bad thing is that a mod even replied in the thread, and did nothing about the response given, they only quoted part of my reply about searching.... ( I am still wondering why...)
Btw I only started this thread after a lot of reading and seeing this trend become more common place.
It's not about being against Noobies...
Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.
I'll quote this post of mine:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post and very worthwhile reading kyphur,
and I understand clearly why it was written.
Just be aware of this trend and its long term results...
Btw I have walked in Mod shoes , and understand the inner workings of forums, and it is no easy task managing a community.
Thanks for posting that.
ive been looking over the forums for months now. i see people ask questions. and instead of given anwsers they are slammed because they should of researched first. Why? isnt it easier to just anwser a question than wasting a post saying you should of read first? if most people are like me (and i assume they are) they dont have time to search through thousands of posts just to find a possible anwser to their questions. the rom threads are getting too long 250+ posts average. and very often going on and off topic. so i guess what i am proposing is sub forums. let "Cooks" apply for a sub forum. not juyst any cook. but if they are making an honest to goodness contribution to the community i think it would help find information a lot easier. yes i know the forums have a search feature. but this it can still be difficult to sift throught the information.
so something like
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > JossKoss
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > Arnyl
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > MedKid
any roms a cook makes could have its own thread. and anything in the subforum would pertain to that particular person. now im not saying give one to just any person that half cooks a rom. it could even be based on a threashhold if the rom gets so many posts .. 200. or by votes. or just by the cooks reputation. that way people can post new threads inside the subforums without it getting moved into the thread with thousands of posts.
i dont make the decisions. im just posting something i think would help sort information and make it easier to find. that way if i have a problem with x rom. instead of reading through one thread there is a thread for each problem. then it is easy to see if that problem im having is an issue with other people. and if its been resolved. give the cook mod status of the particular sub forum and they can moderate it themselfs. so if you agree vote Agree on the poll if you dont vote Disagree on the poll.
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
sakshamkatyal said:
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey bro you wanna drink some natty ice, play some game cube?
on topic... I think it sounds like a pretty solid idea, would help with a lot of the organizational problems.
Cooks come and go! It sure wont make sense to have a sub-forum for them! If you follow xda for a while, you will understand what I am talking about.
What a load of faffing about......
Mods don't get paid and would make more work for them as more to cover.
For all the info people get from XDA is free, so maybe a bit of searching isn't that bad if you want something bad enough you will find it.
Peace.
sakshamkatyal said:
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well first off if you are cooking roms to release to the public , then yes you should beable to anwser most questions that arise.
and second as i stated dont just give anyone a subforum only the cooks that truly contribute. only the serious cooks that have proven themselfs.
but the kitcens have truly gotten too easy for just anyone to make their own rom. and this would also help identify who the trusted / established cooks that know what they are doing are.
stylez said:
What a load of faffing about......
Mods don't get paid and would make more work for them as more to cover.
For all the info people get from XDA is free, so maybe a bit of searching isn't that bad if you want something bad enough you will find it.
Peace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i also addressed this in my original post
GTZ said:
give the cook mod status of the particular sub forum and they can moderate it themselfs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GTZ said:
i also addressed this in my original post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes i saw that but Mods still will have to have some control so therefore more work, as not all chefs are online and able to keep threads clean.
To be honest i like it the way it is.
just my 2p's worth.
There has been numerous threads like this generally for the software section to be split... I think XDA is set up the way it is and lets just be happy with the community and wealth of information we have..........
ai6908 said:
Cooks come and go! It sure wont make sense to have a sub-forum for them! If you follow xda for a while, you will understand what I am talking about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well what i was saying is give it to the ones that have earned it.
GTZ said:
now im not saying give one to just any person that half cooks a rom. it could even be based on a threashhold if the rom gets so many posts .. 200. or by votes. or just by the cooks reputation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if its a well known cook and they have been around for a while i think they have kinda earned it. what im saying would be a little extra work for anyone that would be willing to create the sub forums. it would ultimatly keep roms neater.
you could then have a thread for each rom. build . why should someone read through problems of 21198 then they have been fixed in 21500. there are lots of advantages to adopting this procedure. and very few drawbacks. (yes there are some) . if nothing else lets get some of the cooks opinions.
but i thank each of you for your feedback.
stylez said:
I think XDA is set up the way it is and lets just be happy with the community and wealth of information we have..........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i think if we wernt happy with the way it is we wouldnt be here. that doesnt mean there arent things that need improvement this place is constantly growing and its not uncommon for these forums to outgrow the old ways of doing things.
but again i respect your points of view also
It would make more sense for cooks to use a unified thread titling scheme.
For example, the tilt keyboard fix still has a title of [new] or something similar on it when it is years old.
Perhaps a loose standard should be developed so it is easier to find. Note: I spelled out the date so it is obvious to europeans and americans who list them differently. I hate early month dates!!! -----> 4-5-2009 April or May?
[October 15, 2009] - Anryl - WM6.5 25000 - v1
disagree
this is my vote
What are there no mods on duty today ?
Please, not another thread by another noob/ lazy user ? slamming the seniors for telling them to search. Here are the posting rules handed down by our Queen Flar.
1. Search before posting.........this isn't a suggestion or a senior being a jerk or an " unhelpful " post..... IT IS A RULE
2. Please be polite and respect your fellow users.......... the next time a noob gives me a ration of crap about a " wasted post " and " if I can't be helpful then mind my own business " when I instruct him as to the search function and ,as I ALWAYS do, start him in the right direction, I am going to hunt him down and remove his texting thumbs.
4. Post only using a clear subject and message. ........... I swear , if you could type in " help me pleeeeeease " into the search function, it would return over a thousand separate threads . It is this, and the thousands of I tried to search , but it is so haaaaaaard threads, that make searching so hard. Not the lack of information.
I liked it better back in the " old days " when asking a redundant or stupid question or if you were a noob that dared lash out after getting told to search, you would get drawn, quartered, tarred ,feathered and then set on fire. I lurked on this site from Nov until April when I finally joined, because I was terrified to ask a question. And I am fifty times more knowledgeable because of it . If I needed a question answered, I read and search, and search and read and found my answer. Because ALL the answers are here.
The models may change but the questions are all here. It seems now all you have to do is lash out about how unhelpful this place is, or how hard it is to search or how mean all the seniors are for " wasting my time telling me to search, when in the same time they could have just answered my damn question.", and before you know it , you have people falling all over themselves trying to answer this idiot's question. Because we can't have the noobs thinking we are unfriendly.
I have said it before and I will say it again. This is a library , NOT, HTC Tech support. Much as you would not go to the librarian and say give me all you've got on.....................
You ask the librarian where you would begin your search for................ and you go gather the information for yourself. So when a senior tells you to go search and start here, it is because we are following forum rule and noobs should be directed to also. And If that is not satisfactory to them them they should be directed to HTC Tech support because they are of no benefit to this community.
I like the way it was, is and will be. Search read and search some more, it is up to you to find it , not for the rest of us to fall over ourselves making it yet even easier because ...................
GTZ said:
if most people are like me (and i assume they are) they don't have time to search through thousands of posts just to find a possible answser to their questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..........................i'm just sayin..................................
Okay, I have had my rant and vote, Josh, you can close the thread now
I honestly dont think that is a good idea because it would make it harder for new cooks to get there roms out, if a cook really is as good as you describe (which many are) you will find there roms but yes some cooks do upgrade phones and stop cooking and the sub-topic would then start falling apart and then no one will want to delete it otherwse all of that persons roms will be gone (I guess they could just move the threads actually) But still I think it seems unfair to newer cooks becaue the way it is set up now you can see if another rom starts to gain popularity otherwise everyone would only look at the cooks that have the most experiance.
BTW- I dont know how to cook but it sounds fun and I might want to learn someday if I stop feeling lazy lol so yeah thats one of the reasons I think like this but I guess this could be helpfull in some ways
GTZ said:
well what i was saying is give it to the ones that have earned it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such thing as that! We all do this forum for free! So people do it when they find time! Once time is an issue cooks do vanish no matter how good they are! Just dont argue, read and enjoy the forum!
Let's appreciate the idea he had on his very first post, but I think We need to change the place of this discussion as well. Great buddy no more words no more options on my part, just ask anyone from senior members & they will tell you why they don't agree with this idea. They know the trend on this forum. Good Luck but I think this topic needs to be moved out of ROM upgrading atleast.
I think its lazy. You are trying to make stuff easier on yourself and make more work for the people poviding us with great ROMs, basically for free. I'm not sure if youve ever modified a forum but its no easy task. This isnt tech support. I have very few posts but thats because most of the questions are answered somewhere around here. If you dont have time to look, maybe you dont have time to flash. The rules are the rules abie by them.
Bottom line, dont make more work for the cooks, who spend hours and hours cooking for free just because you dont want to search.
[b]DISAGREE[/b]
Look at my SIG, especially the WHY ..
If you don't get the spirit, go somewhere else where people are willing to spoonfeed you. This is a developer site, not user site.
I'm not a developer, so what I can contribute is only bug reporting and testing .. and if you're not, have some respect to them, help them by doing more research. 99% of what you're looking for is there.
Chefs that would like to have their own subforum can just have another forum with a link on his topic.
This is exactly what Phoenix Dev Team does...
XDA-Devs board is a like friendly jungle. Just take your time to learn how to navigate through it, this is not that hard.
Flashing and upgrading regularly ROMs and softwares means you do have time for this. So one shall learn to have time to search. Anyway, by reading throught posts, one gets a much better control over his phone as you have more knowledge about this or that, not only a superficial approach, which will undeniably lead to a new thread: I don't get it, it's broken or similar .
Only my 2ct-philosophy...
OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
22nd October 2006
Total Posts
89
samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!