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Samsung DVFS cripples phone performance, is it an issue for you?

Did you know that Samsung has a system called DVFS that basically does nothing other than cripping your phone's performance with aggressive underclocking? There's a big thread about it here, but other than that, it seems that this issue is not very well known, which is surprising considering the SGS4 is a very mainstream phone. When I discovered about it I was shocked because this system does literally nothing useful, but it makes gaming or other high end smartphone activities (heavy browsing, 3D games, heavy multitasking, etc) lag like crazy.
It shocks me that Samsung has implemented such a thing and that you cannot disable without rooting (and obviously voiding the warranty and your Knox flag), and nobody except a few XDA users noticed.

MarkMRL said:
Did you know that Samsung has a system called DVFS that basically does nothing other than cripping your phone's performance with aggressive underclocking? There's a big thread about it here, but other than that, it seems that this issue is not very well known, which is surprising considering the SGS4 is a very mainstream phone. When I discovered about it I was shocked because this system does literally nothing useful, but it makes gaming or other high end smartphone activities (heavy browsing, 3D games, heavy multitasking, etc) lag like crazy.
It shocks me that Samsung has implemented such a thing and that you cannot disable without rooting (and obviously voiding the warranty and your Knox flag), and nobody except a few XDA users noticed.
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You say it does nothing useful, but what does it do for battery life?

s14sh3r said:
You say it does nothing useful, but what does it do for battery life?
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Nothing? The phone already has extensive battery saving options, and it already has an underclocking option right there. Not to mention, swappable battery. Why is this thing enforced on everyone? If you use your flagship tier phone like it was an old Nokia from the nineties then it might not affect you. Since I use my phone for browsing internet, multimedia, and games, it does affect me a lot. I don't give a flying **** about one hour of additional battery when my phone slows down to a crawl. If I wanted to enable crawl mode I should have the option, the phone shouldn't decide arbitrarily when to slow down.
Also, if you really want to get into conspiracy theories, what makes you think this isn't a marketing ploy by samsung? To force users to get the S5 because the old one has such poor performance in games and stuff like that? The average smartphone user is so dumb he wouldn't realize it's all planned right in the system itself, they'd go " hurr, my phone can't run games well anymore, better go out and buy the S5, that will surely play games better, with it's multiple megapixels and cores and newer stuff I have no clue about".

MarkMRL said:
Nothing? The phone already has extensive battery saving options, and it already has an underclocking option right there. Not to mention, swappable battery. Why is this thing enforced on everyone? If you use your flagship tier phone like it was an old Nokia from the nineties then it might not affect you. Since I use my phone for browsing internet, multimedia, and games, it does affect me a lot. I don't give a flying **** about one hour of additional battery when my phone slows down to a crawl. If I wanted to enable crawl mode I should have the option, the phone shouldn't decide arbitrarily when to slow down.
Also, if you really want to get into conspiracy theories, what makes you think this isn't a marketing ploy by samsung? To force users to get the S5 because the old one has such poor performance in games and stuff like that? The average smartphone user is so dumb he wouldn't realize it's all planned right in the system itself, they'd go " hurr, my phone can't run games well anymore, better go out and buy the S5, that will surely play games better, with it's multiple megapixels and cores and newer stuff I have no clue about".
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Good points. I'm not arguing against you, btw, I'm not even sure how to tell if my phone is using it since I'm using Omega ROM.

s14sh3r said:
Good points. I'm not arguing against you, btw, I'm not even sure how to tell if my phone is using it since I'm using Omega ROM.
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Well, if you play any game or if you browse a lot you'd probably notice because performance drops a lot and lag increases. I don't know what Omega Rom is, this is an issue in stock rom. Of course it doesn't affect me anymore because I have the knowledge to research this stuff and eventually find a solution (even though I obviously have no idea how the solution is made), but for the average user this should be an issue, I mean everyone should know about it, it's too shady to be ignored, this is planned obsolescence at its finest.

Also, if this was introduced to save battery, how come so many people are complaining about battery drain on Kitkat?
It's obviously a marketing strategy, and I will spread the word about it.

There's a technical paper on dvfs around which goes through some of the techniques samsung uses to optimise performance and battery use. https://events.linuxfoundation.org/images/stories/pdf/lcjp2012_ham.pdf
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planetf1 said:
There's a technical paper on dvfs around which goes through some of the techniques samsung uses to optimise performance and battery use. https://events.linuxfoundation.org/images/stories/pdf/lcjp2012_ham.pdf
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I don't care and I don't have the knowledge to understand anything in that document.
What I care about is:
Galaxy S4 on 4.3 and under: great performance, no issues.
Galaxy S4 on 4.4: awful performance, issues.
Other phones on 4.4: great performance, no issues.
It's no coincidence this happened only a few months before the S5 is released.
Either Samsung did something wrong with this implementation, or they did indeed do it to force users to upgrade because the older model is no longer viable for high end smartphone use.

planetf1 said:
There's a technical paper on dvfs around which goes through some of the techniques samsung uses to optimise performance and battery use. https://events.linuxfoundation.org/images/stories/pdf/lcjp2012_ham.pdf
Sent from my unknown using Tapatalk
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This has nothing to do with the user-space policies which you're complaining about.

Will deleting the twDVFS.apk be sufficient to disable this frequency scaling on my S4? Or is using the Xposed module necessary?

delete

Has Samsung debloating been quantified?

Has Samsung debloating been quantified or are we operating on an 'action bias'? 'I took action so it MUST be effective. I even perceive more battery life !' This happens when we buy cars, golf clubs, computers and maybe when we debloat?
Has anyone compared two identical phones with identical software and shown before and after performance numbers over a significant time-frame? If not, we may be operating on assumption and action bias. This would be an outstanding XDA study and article.
FWIW I use a non-rooted S6, Nougat, and disabled stock apps and processes I don't need via BK Disabler 3 days ago. Can't perceive any improvement in battery. Had no performance issues before debloating and perceive no improvement post-debloat.

There are many guides on XDA that advertise the wonders of debloating your device, it's not rocket science really, less apps running in the background and less apps waking up the device from sleep equals more battery life out of your device.
Since you've disabled your apps, you can take it to the next step by reading this Well-known guide on getting the most out of your battery.
Good luck

Lag

I know i made some negative posts on the htc u11 but tbh i love this phone and i was just feeling annoyed by some things.. But i wanted to ask, i expected this phone to be lag free and super fast, yes it is super fast abd smooth but the thing is that it does lag with me and it is noticable. Happens a couple of times a day i think, am i the only one having lag problems? I do have the power saving option on and idk if it's what's causing the phone to lag or not but all i know is it does lag with me and it is unexpected since this phone has htc sense and snapdragon 835. Share your thoughts below

Not just lag but freeze

I'll share my thoughts : you should really stop openning these threads because actually no one believes you, we're all aware that you're here to throw up on this phone.
For who ? We don't know.
Maybe a simple Samsung fanboy who's upset because HTC made a better phone than Samsung's flagships two years in a row ?
Now stop please, it's not funny and it will not prevent people to buy the U11 if they want to.

I don't see Samsung logo on front... Soo no lag here.

Dejan Kruljac said:
I don't see Samsung logo on front... Soo no lag here.
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Turn off the power saver. It's not needed with the Snapdragon 835 and it alters the distribution of the load between the clusters. Things that would complete swiftly and thus conserve power on the big cores gets offloaded to the little cores. The kernel isn't optimized to take advantage of the efficiency of the 835. With it being incredibly easy to get 7 hours of SoT, there is no need for the power saver. Somewhere on XDA there's a very detailed explanation as to what the power saver does and why it shouldn't be used unless your phone is about to die but it curbs both clock speeds and shuffles around the load, preferring to not use the big cores at all. It basically abolishes the efficiency of the big.LITTLE premise and often has opposite the intended effect if you're actively using the phone.
If you need optimization, you can use Boost+ to set individual high drain apps up to be run in 1080p, limit background usage, etc. This is much more effective than essentially killing the performance of the phone and gaining little, if any, additional battery life. It can have the opposite effect and in fact did so on the 10.
Think of it like this - the little cluster may take half the power per cycle than the big cluster (I don't know the exact numbers and highly doubt it's anywhere near half but it works for the example). You open an app that would have completed in a single cycle on the big cluster. That same app can take four to five cycles on the little cluster. You've just thrown efficiency out the window.
If you have a lot of background apps misbehaving and a lot of apps constantly syncing, it can be advantageous but I haven't seen any evidence of that since the Snapdragon 820. The 805 in my Nexus 6 benefited from it but my Note 5 with the Exynos 7420 and my 10 with the Snapdragon 820 suffered.

Lag?? OP must be in the wrong forum. Please go back to your Lagsung S8..

I had freezes on my previous HTC(one m7), and the reason was some crappy game I installed. After removal - no lag at all. Just try and revise your applications and remove ones you have doubts

0 lag. None, Nada, zilch. Either the person who started this post has an app or setting that is causing it or they are intentionally trying to keep people from buying it...Which seems crazy...who would care that much...?

All Browsers destroy my battery

I am currently on stock Android 12. I flashed the unlocked stock image (non-verizon) a few weeks back. With Android 11, Android 12, LineageOS, etc. every browser I have tried including Chrome, Brave, Via, etc. all drain the battery way faster than browsers did on my previous Moto G5 plus. i would say when I am surfing the net on my browser (usually just reading forums, no video), the battery drains about 1% every 5 minutes or less. I have tried 2.4Ghz wifi, LTE, etc. and data connection type doesn't seem to impact anything.
Is this normal for this phone? anything to do to reduce browser battery drain?

If you go into battery usage graph, is the browser the only app listed as using up the battery (and not the screen brightness, or another app that may be contributing to the heavy usage)

JohnC said:
If you go into battery usage graph, is the browser the only app listed as using up the battery (and not the screen brightness, or another app that may be contributing to the heavy usage)
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correct. if I am using other apps the battery drain isn't near as severe. I keep the display setting "extra dim" enabled all the time and I keep it down as low as I can tolerate. I use a pitch black wallpaper use dark mode in browsers so they have mostly black background with white text.
Phone idle is the only other thing that seems to use a sizeable amount of battery according to the battery usage data in settings.

Sounds about right. Came from a Moto G7 Play (15 months back) and saw similar drain rates. All three devices have similar battery specs which plays into the units being used to assess drain. Is what it is.
FWIW - Opera

DB126 said:
Sounds about right. Came from a Moto G7 Play (15 months back) and saw similar drain rates. All three devices have similar battery specs which plays into the units being used to assess drain. Is what it is.
FWIW - Opera
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Not gonna lie, it makes me want to go back to Motorola when this Pixel bites the dust.

badtlc said:
Not gonna lie, it makes me want to go back to Motorola when this Pixel bites the dust.
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Many Moto's bring a nice package with unique tricks. Gotta do your homework on what features are most important when the time comes.

DB126 said:
Many Moto's bring a nice package with unique tricks. Gotta do your homework on what features are most important when the time comes.
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I definitely did that. I only got the 4a because it was the perfect size and had a headphone jack. I assumed with a newer hardware set and similar sized battery compared to my old phone batter life "should" be better. Nope.

Na, it's more complicated. 4a sports more sensors, brighter/denser display, faster processors, etc. System and personal apps clearly play a role in longevity (behind screen brightness); you'd need to do a detail study to understand what's drawing when and why.
I use to fuss over such matters but find the device lasts a full day for my use case which is all that really matters. Charges up quick from a modest size battery pack when camping/traveling. Just like past Motos.
Not sure who I'll partner with in the next dance. Love Pixel cameras (especially in challenging conditions) and routine updates. Miss some of Moto's innovations, like active display and actions. Needs to be close to AOSP; no Samsung UX butchery. In the end form factor will likely be the deciding factor once non-contenders are ruled out.

badtlc said:
I assumed with a newer hardware set and similar sized battery compared to my old phone batter life "should" be better.
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I don't know what CPU you came from, but if the Moto only had "small" cores then of course it used less battery. "Big" cores use more power. They go faster too, but if you have a constant load, then they'll eat battery faster.
I don't know if there's a non-root way to disable the big cores, but I suspect you can do it with root (but don't know for sure).
Otherwise, you gotta get your browser to stop running JavaScript. If you're watching video you need to make sure the browser is offloading all the decoding to the hardware codecs rather than doing it on the CPU.
And if the screen is on, it might help to try and get it "more black" (eg. Use night mode) or turn down the brightness. The screen is often the primary user of power when a device is being used.

a1291762 said:
I don't know what CPU you came from, but if the Moto only had "small" cores then of course it used less battery. "Big" cores use more power. They go faster too, but if you have a constant load, then they'll eat battery faster.
I don't know if there's a non-root way to disable the big cores, but I suspect you can do it with root (but don't know for sure).
Otherwise, you gotta get your browser to stop running JavaScript. If you're watching video you need to make sure the browser is offloading all the decoding to the hardware codecs rather than doing it on the CPU.
And if the screen is on, it might help to try and get it "more black" (eg. Use night mode) or turn down the brightness. The screen is often the primary user of power when a device is being used.
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Thanks for the suggestions. My power complaints are just limited to the browser so I dont think it is just the larger CPUs. I think my standby consumption issues are related to Stock Android as I am now running GrapheneOS and my standby power consumption now matches my old Moto G5 Plus.
As for browser usage consumption, I have tried everything but disabling Javascript. I will try that and see if it breaks anything I use regularly. Thanks for the idea.
tangent back to general power consumption, I typically disable just about everything behind the scenes as I can. I keep the theme on pitch black. I use the extra dim setting to keep screen brightness as low as I can tolerate. I use night mode in browser to keep as much black background as possible. I disable all tap-to-wake or sensor based features. When I was trying to run Android 12, I disabled all the smart services and removed all the google apps I could. I removed all permissions I could. I restricted all apps I could. I disabled adaptive settings, etc. There is a bunch of stuff running in the background on Android 12 and I just could not

Welcome to the future. Older phones had better battery life

Locklear308 said:
Welcome to the future. Older phones had better battery life
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I dont think it is all the phone. GrapheneOS has 40% better standby battery usage than stock android 12. On graphene, it matches my old Moto G5 Plus. It is either lazy programmers with inefficient coding these days or it is google having the stock OS do waaaay too much by default with no way to disable it.
I'm trying to figure that out now.

badtlc said:
I dont think it is all the phone. GrapheneOS has 40% better standby battery usage than stock android 12. On graphene, it matches my old Moto G5 Plus. It is either lazy programmers with inefficient coding these days or it is google having the stock OS do waaaay too much by default with no way to disable it.
I'm trying to figure that out now.
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I totally agree on the lazy thing. So many devs now days are so lazy. I develope QuickBase databases and constantly run into extremely poorly setup realms/apps. Just basic stuff. Lol

Question S21 plus latest software. Battery life (great)

I dusted off my xda account to let you know that this latest software is great... Battery life finally doesn't drain when not used. (battery drain while not used drives me crazy, wife has iPhone... Always in use, it lasts forever)
Anyway Im the guy that never have problems, not many apps. No smart watch connected. Not rooted, not gamer, no cloud.
My battery used to drain like 15% overnight. Not anymore. It barely uses 40% a day.. Before it was about 75%.
I'm planning to freeze my software update app. Bc whatever they did is working great.
My device is more than 12 mo old, and i use the 85% charge limit (slowest possible charge). Unlocked US model directly from Samsung.

Yay.
Definitely package block updates if it's running well now.

you lucky guy! I'm waiting for the Pixel 7/7 pro and then I'll choose between them and the Zenfone 9. Samsung cheated me for the last time!
My phone is slower than my previus Op7Pro, battery drain is huge and it's always hot. I have it from July 21 but this summer the phone has been unusable under the sun or on the beach because of the huge thermal throttling. I had to splash in the swimming pool while taking photos of my children because it was very hot and went in thermal protection.
Battery life is terrible too, I've to charge at least twice a day even without using it.
Do you think is something that can be solved by the Samsung support?

deskmat81 said:
you lucky guy! I'm waiting for the Pixel 7/7 pro and then I'll choose between them and the Zenfone 9. Samsung cheated me for the last time!
My phone is slower than my previus Op7Pro, battery drain is huge and it's always hot. I have it from July 21 but this summer the phone has been unusable under the sun or on the beach because of the huge thermal throttling. I had to splash in the swimming pool while taking photos of my children because it was very hot and went in thermal protection.
Battery life is terrible too, I've to charge at least twice a day even without using it.
Do you think is something that can be solved by the Samsung support?
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Turn off global power management, find the battery/bandwidth hogs and deal with each on a case by case basis ie optimize it. All Samsung's should be optimized for best performance.
Package Disabler is something I always use but it's not my only tactic.
Since the N10+ Samsung has lost its balance.
That said my now cool running snappy fast N10+ was once a stuttering, hot running battery/bandwidth hungry hog. It doesn't seem like the same device now, it runs like a bat out of hell. Been running like this for 2 years on the same load. All you can do is try to optimize it.
Samsung Tech support? Bah-ha-ha-ha, don't count on it. Rarely are they helpful, but occasionally you get lucky. Updates tend to break not fix things... think before you click and disable all auto updates especially firmware.

blackhawk said:
Turn off global power management, find the battery/bandwidth hogs and deal with each on a case by case basis ie optimize it. All Samsung's should be optimized for best performance.
Package Disabler is something I always use but it's not my only tactic.
Since the N10+ Samsung has lost its balance.
That said my now cool running snappy fast N10+ was once a stuttering, hot running battery/bandwidth hungry hog. It doesn't seem like the same device now, it runs like a bat out of hell. Been running like this for 2 years on the same load. All you can do is try to optimize it.
Samsung Tech support? Bah-ha-ha-ha, don't count on it. Rarely are they helpful, but occasionally you get lucky. Updates tend to break not fix things... think before you click and disable all auto updates especially firmware.
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thanks for your suggestion, this night (when my children will fall asleep XD ) I'll try to check. Where can I find the option to disable the global power management?
About the power governor I'm using the mid option named High ( I have Optimized - High - Maximum) but I've tried the other two options and wait I've seen is bad performance (no increase in battery life) or increase of the phone temperatures with no real benefit in the daily use.
I'm hating this phone, I'm thinking to change asap, I'm waiting for the Pixels, hoping Google is able to manage the thermal issues better than Samsung.
About the support I don't mean the one by the phone, I know it's useless , I would mean if my thermal and battery problems can be related to some hardware issues.

deskmat81 said:
thanks for your suggestion, this night (when my children will fall asleep XD ) I'll try to check. Where can I find the option to disable the global power management?
About the power governor I'm using the mid option named High ( I have Optimized - High - Maximum) but I've tried the other two options and wait I've seen is bad performance (no increase in battery life) or increase of the phone temperatures with no real benefit in the daily use.
I'm hating this phone, I'm thinking to change asap, I'm waiting for the Pixels, hoping Google is able to manage the thermal issues better than Samsung.
About the support I don't mean the one by the phone, I know it's useless , I would mean if my thermal and battery problems can be related to some hardware issues.
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It's in Device Care under battery. Individual app battery background settings don't invoke global power management so you can do that instead.
That's just the start. You probably need to use a package disabler or adb edits to disable about 70-80 bloatware apps.
This is how on my N10+'s its configured.
Unlike latter Samsung flagships the N10+ is a well balanced phone in terms of form factor, usability, functionality and power consumption.
It supports expandable storage up to 1tb.

It seems that disabling the global power management the slug mode has been disabled too. I need to check it in the next days if the situation stays like this or not. In any case I still need to block the bloatware.
Thanks for your help