i was thinking of telling sprint that i lost my phone so that i can get a new one to use for work but while still keeping mine to use as a toy.Would they be able to simply track my phone and get me for fraud?
Thats not a appropriate question on XDA as its illegal to do fraud! No they wont be able to track your phone!
mohamedhussain1995 said:
Thats not a appropriate question on XDA as its illegal to do fraud! No they wont be able to track your phone!
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Why would they give you a new phone, just because you lost yours ?
Your sim card does however, register on the network when ever you connect (ismi # ) as does your imei #. So you would never be able to use either on a network again. Also if they even suspect fraud, they can charge your account the full amount of the phone , several hundreds of dollars, and suspend your service. And until you settle the bill with Sprint, you will be denied service on any other carrier, because the bill with Sprint will go on your credit report.
That is of course unless you spend several thousands of dollars in legal fees fighting a billion dollar company trying to prove that you didn't do something, that you , in fact, did do.
ummm.. i presume he is under warranty; like me. in the UK if i lose my phone it gets replaced by the same model if it aint found within 12 hours and the stolen phone gets black listed but if you read carefully he mentioned 'as a toy'
Please make sense.
While I respect the "interest" anyone might have to avoid costs, one should not do so "at any cost", particularly at the cost of one's integrity. I have a rule I created for just such a postulation "do not spend your life looking for short-cuts and later standing around complaining when life short-changes you." (Brooks II, Leonard W., The Art of Being ©2007) Notwithstanding this user's inquiry being wrong on all sorts of levels, including legal, it is sufficient that this user ask himself or herself whether this is the "right" thing to do. I think the "gut" won't lie in this case and properly guide his or her actions. Then, there's the old rule I teach my children: "Just because you 'can' do something, does not mean that you 'should'".
To those that weighed in on this question in a manner of response:
I strongly discourage the statement of legal conclusions or speculations regarding punishments as a matter of law. It is contradictory and sends mixed messages to all the users when such speculations are thrown about while also coupled with an answer to the querying user's question. (e.g. This is an inappropriate forum for your question on how to rob a bank because bank robbery is illegal and you could go to jail, p.s. rob an ATM instead because if you get caught you'll do less jail time).
In these forums, it is sufficient to state (preferably citing to an internal xda-developers rule), that "this question is not appropriate to the forum." Alternatively, if xda were to lack such an internal policy rule (I seem to recall it does not lack such a rule) one could simply state the same and re-direct the inquiring user to his or her wireless contract which also provides clear guidance on this point (and yes, I read them (line for line)).
Nevertheless, I also don't think it is good form to make them feel completely like a heel for having asked the question in the first instance. After all, whether it is technology, law, relationships, or our own life experience, most of us know "just enough to make us dangerous".
So you've bricked your captivate..../Stories to tell AT&T so you can get it replaced!
I recently bricked my captivate. It turned into a brick. Nothing happened at all. So i called samsung when ATT wouldnt replace it, and i told them it would shut off every once in a while and then one day it wouldnt turn on again. they gave me a new one!!!
so here i am, starting an AT&T/Samsung Support story thread. Tell us what you told them, and the results!
Or instead of a story realize you just perpetrated fraud and edging on theft since you lied about what happened to your phone instead of taking responsibility foe breaking it. If you're going to change the inner workings of your phone you shouldn't lie to get it replaced, but instead accept the risks and the cost if something goes wrong.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
cropythy said:
Or instead of a story realize you just perpetrated fraud and edging on theft since you lied about what happened to your phone instead of taking responsibility foe breaking it. If you're going to change the inner workings of your phone you shouldn't lie to get it replaced, but instead accept the risks and the cost if something goes wrong.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Wow somebody sounds bitter. If AT&T didn't place so many restrictions on the phone then maybe we wouldn't have to modify the "inner workings" in the first place. True it might not be honest, but neither is charging 10c for a text message
10c for a text message isn't honest but that doesn't mean lying about what you did to your phone should be condoned.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
First off, I don't think anybody has managed to actually brick one of these phones - even the ones who have deliberately tried to do so.
Secondly, if you can't live with the restrictions AT&T has put on the phone, you have 30 days to return it. If you want to hack or modify your phone go ahead - but be prepared to accept the consquences for your actions.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
you could always one click odin3 restore and be fine!
This is hands down, 100% wrong. YOU were playing around with your phone. YOU knew the risks and you decided to flash/update/whatever your device and ended up with a partial brick. (to my knowledge there has not been a fully bricked captivate yet)
It is YOUR responsibility to replace the phone if YOU damage it in any way. NOT At&t.
It always irks me when people manipulate retailers/manufacturers to get things replaced 'under warranty' when in fact, the warranty has been voided.
Not a good idea to make up a story
Its not like they cannot find out that you were the culprit who bricked it when the phone gets back to QA. And believe me...they WILL find out. Once they find out and if they decide to care you are technically liable for the full price of the phone in addition to what they deem are damages
Additionally it will just lead to more efforts by AT&T to keep modders out, hurting us all at xda in the process.
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Wow somebody sounds bitter. If AT&T didn't place so many restrictions on the phone then maybe we wouldn't have to modify the "inner workings" in the first place. True it might not be honest, but neither is charging 10c for a text message
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So being dishonest makes it all right?
Guess what? No one tricked anyone into buying a phone. AT&T does not change terms and conditions without giving you cause to cancel your contract. If you don't like the price of text messages, then don't text; or go with a cheaper carrier.
If you don't like the restrictions don't buy the phone.
And you probably justify downloading music, apps, and movies because they cost to much or not good enough quality?
what does it mean to breake?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I agree with the above posters.
When I bought this phone, I knew I was going to root it, ROM it, edit the files and such. I knew at the same time that doing so would void my warranty and make me liable for any damage I did to the phone. Understanding that made me more careful about what I put on my phone, and made me research the HELL out of any changes I made before I made them, and how to fix them if something went wrong.
Also, it's, so far, IMPOSSIBLE to completely brick a captivate, since you can just use Odin3 to reinstall software. I would think the only way to brick one would be hardware damage from taking it apart, or smashing it with a hammer or something crazy like that.
Just go to this thread, download the firmware, Odin3 and the pitfile and reinstall your phone's OS.
http: // forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=731989
Holy crap I didn't think so many people would be morally distressed by Hazard96's actions. The guy faked a story to get a new phone, big deal. Its not like he killed someone. I know what he did was wrong, I'm not arguing that. I merely stated that dishonesty is not a quality possessed by one individual, and that if a company is going to engage in dishonest practices well... things have a way of balancing themselves out. Corporate greed is incredibly pervasive in today's society. I'm sure AT&T and Samsung aren't angels either. Now that being said, I do not condone what Mr. Hazard did nor would I do what he did. Here's a little anecdote: I bought a 1st gen iPhone when they first came out, unlocked it and later found out it had hardware issues. I could have easily brought it to an apple store and have them replace it but I voided my warranty by unlocking it and cut my losses by selling an unlocked defective phone. Before we start making assumptions about people lets analyze the situation and not get our panties in a bunch over something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential.
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Holy crap I didn't think so many people would be morally distressed by Hazard96's actions. The guy faked a story to get a new phone, big deal. Its not like he killed someone. I know what he did was wrong, I'm not arguing that. I merely stated that dishonesty is not a quality possessed by one individual, and that if a company is going to engage in dishonest practices well... things have a way of balancing themselves out. Corporate greed is incredibly pervasive in today's society. I'm sure AT&T and Samsung aren't angels either. Now that being said, I do not condone what Mr. Hazard did nor would I do what he did. Here's a little anecdote: I bought a 1st gen iPhone when they first came out, unlocked it and later found out it had hardware issues. I could have easily brought it to an apple store and have them replace it but I voided my warranty by unlocking it and cut my losses by selling an unlocked defective phone. Before we start making assumptions about people lets analyze the situation and not get our panties in a bunch over something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential.
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What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
I'm sorry, but in my world, if I install linux on a brand new dell or HP computer, and the screen shorts, my warranty doesn't become void. I can't receive software technical support because I am not running the software the sold me, but if the hardware is defective, software has ZERO to do with it. So the limitations that AT&T place on cell phones that if you flash a new ROM it's warranty is void is ridiculous, and downright fraudulent.
alphadog00 said:
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
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(I'm agreeing with quoted poster)
It's also an issue of trust. If people keep returning phones that were bricked due to rooting or flashing improperly, then eventually the phone companies will work to put some kind of lockdown on that type of thing. Hard to to? probably, but the latest fiasco with Efuse and such on the Droid X showed us that it's POSSIBLE. Ultimately while I appreciate the ability to make my phone into essentially anything I want I think that once you start making those changes you take full possession of the phone. I don't want Samsung to go "hey, we had a bunch of phones returned because the idiots bricked them by flashing a bad rom, we should make it so you can't do that to keep them from ruining their phones and costing us money"
alphadog00 said:
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
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How about price fixing, dubious business practices, illegal political contributions, tax evasion, and breach of trust (These are allegations that samsung was CAUGHT doing, imagine all the stuff that's been going on behind closed doors).
http://www.corp-ethics.com/company/samsung/samsung-give-825m-charity.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/business/worldbusiness/17iht-17samsung.12083418.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/European-Union-Price-Fixing-DRAM,10462.html
NOW AGAIN, I'm not saying because Samsung engaged in these practices that it justifies one man's deceitful actions, all I'm saying is that no one is perfect... And I don't want to get started on what AT&T is guilty of.
Kreiger1981 said:
(I'm agreeing with quoted poster)
It's also an issue of trust. If people keep returning phones that were bricked due to rooting or flashing improperly, then eventually the phone companies will work to put some kind of lockdown on that type of thing. Hard to to? probably, but the latest fiasco with Efuse and such on the Droid X showed us that it's POSSIBLE. Ultimately while I appreciate the ability to make my phone into essentially anything I want I think that once you start making those changes you take full possession of the phone. I don't want Samsung to go "hey, we had a bunch of phones returned because the idiots bricked them by flashing a bad rom, we should make it so you can't do that to keep them from ruining their phones and costing us money"
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Or said companies can accept the fact that rooting et al will take place anyway, and make the process much easier. Jailbreaking is legal now right? Companies ought to develop a system where people can jailbreak/root without fear of bricking and companies will save money. It's a win-win
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Or said companies can accept the fact that rooting et al will take place anyway, and make the process much easier. Jailbreaking is legal now right? Companies ought to develop a system where people can jailbreak/root without fear of bricking and companies will save money. It's a win-win
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This phone is already ridiculously easy to flash and virtually impossible to brick, and we still have ethically bankrupt idiots pulling these stunts and then coming here to brag about it!
I would agree that we have blatant price fixing in regards to the price of text messages and probably in regards to other services too. These issues need to be addressed through the appropriate legal avenues. None of them turn "wrong" into "right".
Someone should sticky the below post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=753946
It IS possible to brick the phone. Anyone who spouts off about how it is impossible is dead wrong. See post seven of the above thread. While what the OP did is wrong on some level, the severity is debatable for the next hundred years. I will say that the community shares some responsibility though. There are not enough warnings about bricking, everyone simply states that it's nearly impossible. I've seen numerous posts asking for help on a device that is as the OP described in his other thread and the only things that are posted are the typical "It can't be bricked, you're just doing it wrong" posts. Having personally seen one such device, I've read a lot of threads about it. Most are simply stuck at the android failsafe screen or in a boot loop but there are indeed complete bricks and not enough attention is given to them or how to avoid them. In short, the OP does deserve some slack.
Wow wtf happened to this site?
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.
I was quite disgusted to see how the mods failed to interpret the law, and how they reacted in this thread.
Someone cited a proposed Senate bill, not an actual law that's on the books, and the mod reacted as if it were law. And worse, the proposed legislation actually exempted XDA participants anyway:
(d) Exception- Subsection (b) shall not apply to the manufacturer of a
mobile device or a person who repairs or refurbishes a mobile
device unless the manufacturer or person knows that the mobile
device or part involved is stolen.'.
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This is the thread that emerges in search results. What an embarrassment to xda. Is xda not interested in creating a forum for those who repair mobile devices?? Some of whom actually seek to alter their IMEI back to its original number after bricking wiped it out are being denied support. How foolish is that?
I propose the lock be removed from that thread, and zelendel apologize for the error.
Great to see someone hitting the books and citing real published sources rather then spreading paranoia based on hearsay. Always seek a published source to back up anything you spread or specify that it is not confirmed true and is speculative.
I did ++ your post bro, I ranted about MEID repair stuff in cricket users I should probably rant about it here too, I'm sick and tired of everyone assuming that one who is attempting to repair an MEID is a thief/fence. Likewise there are legal ways to discuss that topic (this is speculative because I'm too lazy to pull up legislation right now, I have a headache and I was nodding out in the middle of reading up on AT commands) like I'm pretty sure (but I don't have the law to cite so someone else should do find it) that zeroing out and changing and MEID to the one that was originally registered to the device (the one under the battery) is legal to do and doesn't violate any FCC or other federal regulations. I'm pretty sure I have read that and did cite it in my rant on the subject at cricket-users. But some people just decide to demonize an activity and do witchunts. I will say right out that I regularly repair MEID numbers and any phone I beleive to be stolen that I ever run across I go through the phone book and find the ICE or obvious family contacts and arrange to return the stolen property, even if is a handset I purchased and then found to be stolen I will willingly loose that money to get someone their **** back. I've had many phones stolen from me and it's messed up and I wouldn't do that to someone else.
When phones are stolen their MEID normally only remains on the blacklist for the duration of the phone being on that account, once the person replaces the phone and activates it, this releases the stolen phone's MEID from the database and allows it to be activated again (this practice is verified to be Sprint policy by a high-tier CSR I spoke with during a support call, I had a phone stolen from me by the police, not making this up, and I was trying to permanently prevent it from being activatable. It is not easy.)
So if you have a problem with MEID repairing be real about it, don't act like anyone who mentions it is a thief and start lodging accusations. It is against this site's current policy and any such comments discussing how to do these things should be taken down, but stop flaming people that post about it, thiefs don't even need to go through all that trouble they just have to wait for the phone they stole to be replaced on the account. The only way a phone gets meid blacklisted on a long term or permanent basis (besides submitting an override form to sprint that basically says yeah my stuff was jacked and I want to make sure no one can ever activate this phone again) is from broken service contracts. The phones that were subsidized by agreeing to a annual service contract will be blacklisted by that carrier until the account is repaid.
That is the truth about the MEID repair bullies, they are really just supporting the carriers' ability to shake down bad customers for money, they really don't give a **** if a device is stolen, that just means they get to sell another device at full unsubsidized price.
It's interesting how a proposed bill gets interpretted as law. Anyone can write a bill. Some average joe can write a bill, and submit it to Congress for signing. Then they can post the bill publicly, reference it in an XDA thread, and get mods to close a thread.
I did an "alert" on the mods post in that other thread. It will be interesting to see if XDA can correct the error. Hopefully the alert doesn't go to the mod who acted irrationally.
Here are the results of the attempt to get the thread closure overturned:
"the mod is a senior mod so his decision cannot be overturned. but google this question that will provide more updated info status on this"
How can a senior mod be so reckless?
And since when is "google" a higher source than the Cornell law publications? Google is what created the mess in the first place. Someone googled, read a proposed law that was long past dead, and interpreted it as law.
So I've got a discussion thats bugged me for ages. I've always wondered about bad IMEI's/ESN's. Phones that cannot be used because they are reported stolen
It has a great purpose, It's like if someone stole your car, the car nolonger can start(bad analogy, don't laugh). But it leaves me with something that really really bugs me
Now what happens to people who legitimately buy devices second hand from original owners and such and then the original owner decides to be a you know what and blacklist the device? Or worse, what happens then to all of these devices in their after life? We now have a pile of useless phones that there seems to be no procedure to ever unblacklist these devices... thats the part that sickens me. We literally are rendering useless perfectly good phones that have the ability to be reused, be it the device is sent to the manufacturer first for refurbishing, the original owner gets the device back into their possession. I just feel there so many phones out there that are rendered useless when they are really expensive pieces of equipment... I Know there's always "changing the IMEI" but we aren't going the illegal route here.
Anyone else have feedback, Idk why it just gives me this feeling of being very wasteful.
XDA simply doesn't want to dabble in any "grey" areas. There may be legitimate/legal reasons for changing an IMEI. Most (or at least many) cases, the reasons aren't legitimate or legal. So, to avoid any confusion (or liability), discussion is prohibited. Similarly, certain "patcher" apps. Lots of legitimate uses, like back-ups/restores, root app removal, etc. But also lots of illegitimate uses. So XDA takes the blanket stance of not discussing such apps. It saves them from any hassle of legal/ethical issues, and alleviates the moderating staff from sorting out the fraction of legitimate questions from the dubious questions, lies, damned lies, and flat-out admissions of nefariousness.
If you buy a phone without doing your research into its IMEI or its unlock status, then I think it's your own damn fault for getting burned. Just my opinion. If you're asking about changing IMEI, then either you screwed up in that regard, or you've knowingly purchased a phone with a bad IMEI (buying a "parts" phone off eBay or craigslist), or are the cause of it having a bad IMEI itself (failing to fulfill a contract agreement). Regardless of the reason, even if it's innocently/ignorantly getting burned by an unscrupulous seller, such discussion is barred from XDA because of those other concerns.
My exact question is at the end more than anything, I see this being wasteful of phones? If a device is blacklisted for being "stolen" but is later found by the original owner? Then what? Still a dead device? I just think there's hundreds of good phones out there that could still be used even if they are found or returned or by who knows what means end up on the service providers desk cause someone found it and sent it to the police or something and it's reunited with it's owner...
You get where I'm going with this?
I SPECIFICALLY STATED CHANING IMEI's, HOW-TO's, and such are NOT to be discussed here. I even said this was a discussion, not a Help me thread... Sorry I feel just like you didn't read my op :/
to make it more basic, I think the current system is super inefficent and wasteful and there must be better solutions out there or some future legal way to deal with unblacklisting phones(i.e. original owner finds phone, goes to carrier, proves their identity with an ID and clearly the carrier can look up the account and devices)
One of my coworkers who is a nice guy, and far too naive and trusting to be using craigslist, bought a Pixel 3. His coming from an iPhone 5 and I guess the sim cards are different sizes. He took the sellers word for it and bought the phone. When he got home and tried setting it up while on wi-fi, it said that the phone was factory reset and needed to be signed in by the previous user. Naturally the guy has gone dark and is no longer responding to my coworker. After calling Google and having them turn him down for assistance, he prayed on it (I'm not even joking) and he remembered I routinely tinker with my phones.
I know it sounds sketchy whenever anyone asks how to bypass protections and I fully understand not wanting to help because others may see it. I have done searches on how to do this, but I am not having much luck. I do not know what version of Android this phone has on it, but I would assume Pie. I have't run stock for any longer than it takes to unlock the bootloader. I will provide any information I can. While I am not very active on the forum, I am a relatively long time member with no history of shady crap.
Any help or guidance would be very much appreciated!
It'll make a great paperweight at this point. The FRP is on there for a reason. Regardless weather he stole it, the seller stole it or you stole it, it still makes a great paperweight.
FilthyFord said:
It'll make a great paperweight at this point. The FRP is on there for a reason. Regardless weather he stole it, the seller stole it or you stole it, it still makes a great paperweight.
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I was afraid of that.
He should turn in to police, with a description and whatever contact information he had for seller. Definitely stolen property.
It may not be stolen if FRP is tripped. That will happen if you reset the phone and don't remove the Google account first. Of course seller going dark is a big clue that it may be stolen.
MOD ACTION:
Thread closed.
Asking for help and helping to bypass security is not encouraged on XDA, especially since there is no way to ascertain if the request is genuine or not.